Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-07-22 | 2016-07-24 → ↓
03:12 deedbot [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] End of Days. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/23/end-of-days/
~ 3 hours 22 minutes ~
06:34 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.231.125 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.231.125 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+74.45.231.125@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
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06:34 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.228.160 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.228.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+74.45.228.160@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
06:34 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.228.159 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.228.159 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+74.45.228.159@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
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~ 1 hours 39 minutes ~
08:14 mats sick every day carry http://imgur.com/gallery/8vu2a
~ 2 hours 35 minutes ~
10:50 deedbot [Trilema] Fred Wilson is an idiot, and other things - http://trilema.com/2016/fred-wilson-is-an-idiot-and-other-things/
~ 37 minutes ~
11:27 mircea_popescu rochester ny eh ?
11:36 mircea_popescu $up interviewee
11:36 deedbot interviewee voiced for 30 minutes.
11:36 shinohai o/ interviewee
11:36 interviewee hi Shinohai
11:37 shinohai and you are Drew I presume?
11:37 interviewee you betcha.
11:37 shinohai kk ... so ... the dao. You believe the "dao attacker' has a legal claim here?
11:37 interviewee here's the analysis
11:38 interviewee when determining whether any party has the ability to invoke the power of the legal system to determine a dispute, you must first determine the party's respective legal rights
11:38 interviewee that is to say, who has what rights/powers/responsibilities/burdens
11:38 shinohai i follow
11:38 interviewee (caveat- i do US law only, because i don't know any other legal system)
11:39 interviewee there are 3 or 4 analytic inflection points here
11:39 interviewee 1. is there any contract relationship and if so, what does it say everyone can and can't do?
11:39 interviewee 2. if there is no contract relationship, is there any conventionally recognized "ownership" right to any of the ETH/DAOt out there
11:39 shinohai hasn't it been established that the dao *didn't specifically prohibit this behavior* ?
11:39 interviewee 3. if no contract and no "ownership" then can anyone get anything usign the legal system?
11:40 interviewee 4. if we accept the law is code premise, then is what the exploiter did actually a violation of any others' rights?
11:40 interviewee as to your q, TheDao was evidently premised as code = law
11:40 interviewee however, flying in the face of that declaration were layer after layer of lawyer language
11:41 interviewee you have the comments in the actual .sol files as to warranties and incorp. of the gnu license
11:41 shinohai mircea_popescu, et all any questions for possible qntra?
11:41 interviewee you have the readme.md file in the git for the slockit code that had all sorts of interesting/strange declarations/disclaimers
11:41 interviewee then you have the conflicting mess of declarations in the daohub.org page
11:42 interviewee whcih of course was ambigiuous as to its ownership for a while- so it was unclear what "disclaimers" actually came from "TheDao"
11:42 interviewee and who was authorized to discllaim for TheDao
11:42 mircea_popescu shinohai well, what is your interest here ?
11:42 mircea_popescu interviewee are you a lawyer ?
11:43 interviewee complicating this of course is the fact that an investor/DaoT holder could actually buy in without seeing any of those disclaimers b/c the buy in was actually just a ETH transaction
11:43 interviewee yes, i am a lawyer.
11:43 mircea_popescu well, specifically ?
11:43 interviewee however, none fo this is legal advice- just my persaonl analysis
11:43 shinohai i was just curious as to the legal standing of the dao from US perspective
11:43 shinohai hypothetically of course
11:43 interviewee so, it's unclear if any of those disclaimer actually mean anythign or nothing
11:43 interviewee so, here's my personal take
11:43 mircea_popescu the actual legal standing is not established. it's one of those things that are a huge pile of nonsense a judge will have to cut through.
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11:44 interviewee there are repeated express disclaimers of contract rights/creation
11:44 mircea_popescu financially, it's toxic, for this reason. nobody sane will get involved in it, which is the point.
11:44 interviewee a judge will probably infer some contractual relationships
11:44 interviewee based on conduct
11:44 interviewee hi Mircea_popescu
11:44 mircea_popescu us judges are notorious for poor judgement and arbitrary rulings.
11:44 mircea_popescu ello.
11:44 interviewee i enjoyed your blog that you pushed out right after the attack.
11:45 mircea_popescu interviewee the question to you is still, concretely, which lawyer are you ? otherwise the situation here is indistinguishable from "bored redditor clicked a webirc link"
11:45 interviewee what do you mean "which lawyer am i ?"
11:45 interviewee who am i IRL?
11:46 interviewee US Judges do a really good job considering the system they have to deal with
11:46 shinohai http://www.bergersingerman.com/
11:46 interviewee http://www.bergersingerman.com/people/andrew-m-hinkes
11:46 mircea_popescu aha! cool.
11:46 interviewee that's me friends
11:46 mircea_popescu do consider making a pgp key and registering it with deedbot
11:47 interviewee mircea_popescu i'll check it out
11:47 interviewee so, back to the analysis
11:47 interviewee the point is this
11:47 interviewee if code = law and code permitted action
11:47 mircea_popescu next q being, are you actually trying to position yourself to litigate this, or just blogging about it ?
11:47 interviewee then entirely plausible that permitted action provides title
11:47 interviewee and then the unilateral fork deprives rights.
11:48 interviewee to litigate it is very complex
11:48 interviewee b/c of standing
11:48 interviewee it would be a HELL of a lot of f un
11:48 interviewee but a longshot for a vairiety of reasons
11:48 mircea_popescu standing only comes at proceeding time. litigation starts with filing.
11:48 interviewee any ahole can file anything
11:48 mircea_popescu wouldn't be the first time someone files something that's then dismissed.
11:48 mircea_popescu quite.
11:48 * BingoBoingo popcorns
11:48 interviewee getting service and past a motion to dismiss is what i'm talkign about
11:49 mircea_popescu service is not so hard - you sue mit.
11:49 mircea_popescu they've got money.
11:49 interviewee then you open the box and deal with the endless array of new law to make
11:49 BingoBoingo I thought it was U Maryland
11:49 interviewee how do you coerce a blockchain with a court order?
11:49 mircea_popescu motion to dismiss you worry about after they reject early settlement. if they do.
11:49 mircea_popescu interviewee you can't be this naive. "a blockchain" ? you sue mit, the hedge fund.
11:49 mircea_popescu tortious interference &all.
11:50 interviewee so you want cash damages not to reverse the fork
11:50 mircea_popescu no, actually, im in the business of destroying the us.
11:50 interviewee so is about 1/2 of the voters in the US so you're in good company
11:50 interviewee *are
11:50 mircea_popescu also, there's exactly no difference between cash damages and reversing the fork.
11:50 interviewee one is MUCH easier to get
11:51 mircea_popescu they're both the same thing.
11:51 mircea_popescu ie, even if the judge orders "to reverse the fork" the only practical implementation is a liquidation in cash.
11:51 interviewee are you a lawyer, mircea?
11:51 mircea_popescu mno.
11:51 interviewee from my analysis of the toolbox available to lawyers, it is much easier to get a judgment and levy on conventional assets than to try to compel actors to change code.
11:52 interviewee esp. non party actors
11:52 mircea_popescu no argument there. all i'm saying is that even if the latter were ordered, it'd still not work.
11:52 interviewee the collateral damage tot he platform caused by a public suit would be breathtaking
11:52 mircea_popescu shinohai this means that the derps are in the worst case of all : all the damage of their "hard fork" is now baked in but nevertheless none of the things they hoped it would achieve were achieved.
11:53 mircea_popescu interviewee which is the point.
11:53 interviewee understood.
11:53 interviewee so yes, i think there's a credible arguement that the exploiter just lost rights.
11:53 shinohai it's already dead, but this is poking it with stick
11:53 mircea_popescu ~anyone holding as much as a farthing "worth" of ethereum presently has overhead the possible claim here discussed, with its treble damages and whatnot.
11:53 interviewee and a shit load of hurdles to cross
11:53 shinohai to see what spills out?
11:54 interviewee so, i'm enjoying this quite a great deal
11:54 mircea_popescu and if mit doesn't distance itself from it post haste, it's definitely open to a tort, which... you know, judge awards a billion, of which 0.1% mit's responsibility. so they have TO PAY THRE WHOLE BILLION
11:54 BingoBoingo One can not decathalon to Olympus without jumping over some hurdles.
11:54 mircea_popescu us tort law is a wonder.
11:55 interviewee could be
11:55 interviewee or not.
11:55 interviewee unclear.
11:55 interviewee you have to remember the gatekeeper here is likely to be a +60yr old conservative christian white male
11:55 interviewee statistically, anyway, among US judges
11:55 mircea_popescu there is no gatekeeper. damages are jury awards.
11:56 interviewee respectfully you get to the jury at the end and there's a lot to do before the end.
11:56 mircea_popescu anyway, no way mit senior counsel ever allows this anywhere near a trial ; which is why it's fine settle fodder if you're looking to feed yourself.
11:56 interviewee ok, perhaps i am as naive as shinohai suggests, but where's the claim against MIT?
11:57 interviewee did they write any part of the slock.it code or solidity or ethereum?
11:57 mircea_popescu tortious interference. they provided the office space where the decision was made and allegedly "forced the participants to decide"
11:57 mircea_popescu the allegation has to be established by trier of fact, ie, jury.
11:57 interviewee what's the factual basis for the "forced the participants to decide"?
11:57 mircea_popescu they decided.
11:57 interviewee try again.
11:58 interviewee facts, not post-execution observations.
11:58 interviewee are there facts out there?
11:58 mircea_popescu not going to. the factual matter will have to be established somehow. you allege they did, they allege they didn't. so it's a dispute.
11:58 interviewee Rule 11- can't just sling shit and hope for the best
11:58 mircea_popescu in point of fact, ethereum happened in the mit media lab.
11:58 mircea_popescu that's ~enough.
11:59 mircea_popescu they did own the premises.
11:59 interviewee vitalik & crew built it there?
11:59 mircea_popescu yes.
11:59 shinohai of course they didn't, fork chain so this never, ever happened
11:59 mircea_popescu not really how it works shinohai :p
11:59 shinohai ikr
11:59 interviewee if you sign a contract for delivery of 50 tons of charcoal while sitting at the restaurant and the other party breaches 2 years later, you think you have a claim against the restaurant?
12:00 mircea_popescu but this is not a restaurant. if you decide to break into the democratic convention while sitting in nixon's white house, guess what.
12:00 BingoBoingo If the restaurant offered grant money to people selling charcoal chain mebbe?
12:00 interviewee there are lots of lawyers who would "just" want to file this to make their name
12:00 mircea_popescu yup.
12:00 interviewee a serious claim by a serious party with actual rights and i'm 100000000% down
12:01 mircea_popescu this is one of those million-dollar-opportunities, which i hear are getting rarer and rarer in an ever more crowded lawyer market.
12:01 interviewee yes and no.
12:01 mircea_popescu myeah.
12:01 interviewee they are out there but they are increasingly being regulated/legislated out
12:01 interviewee agree this may be a fun one
12:01 mircea_popescu anyway. there is no such thing as "actual rights" here, nor even as much as title. nobody has title to any cryptocurrency.
12:01 interviewee you have contingent claims and claims of control.
12:02 mircea_popescu sure, but that's possession not title.
12:02 interviewee there is no govt actor using police power to enforce like the fancy colored linen i used to buy my coffee this am
12:02 interviewee you can sue to enforce any part of yoru property rights
12:02 interviewee including posessory
12:02 interviewee in conversion, you don't lose legal title, just posessory
12:02 mircea_popescu sure, i don't mean "title to sue" i mean title as in property
12:02 interviewee conversion = civil version of theft
12:02 mircea_popescu yeah.
12:03 interviewee if you stole my stradivarious, i'd not lose title just posession
12:03 interviewee and you bet i'd sue your ass
12:03 mircea_popescu sure.
12:03 mircea_popescu (stradivarius)
12:03 interviewee even tho title stays with me
12:03 interviewee (i can't spell for shit)
12:04 interviewee even if you want to call it "right to control"
12:04 interviewee same diff
12:04 mircea_popescu aha.
12:05 interviewee so, i gave a talk about this at NYU 3 days before the exploiter did his/her/their thing
12:05 interviewee and presented a draft academic paper on it
12:05 interviewee and guessed right about many of the things that would or would not happen
12:05 interviewee including that there would be efforts to roll back
12:06 interviewee that would show that ETH is run by a cabal
12:06 interviewee but big picture
12:06 mircea_popescu not bad.
12:06 interviewee since the right are unsettled
12:06 interviewee and everyone was told they'd get what they get from hitting buttons
12:06 shinohai $up interviewee
12:06 deedbot interviewee voiced for 30 minutes.
12:07 mircea_popescu oh, right, there's also a whole pile of claims re insider trading, manipulation etc over the "price" of "ethereum" at kraken and poloniex.
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12:07 mircea_popescu but those some later time.
12:07 interviewee sure, if you have standing to bring them
12:07 interviewee remember- you're getting past your gatekeeper
12:07 interviewee to reach the threat of the jury
12:07 interviewee and remmeber pubic stake holder impacts
12:07 mircea_popescu so far i'm just pointing and laughing at the sec.
12:08 interviewee sec is paying a lot of attention IMO
12:08 interviewee based on MO only
12:08 interviewee do not be surprised to see enw rules soon
12:08 interviewee *enw
12:08 interviewee fuck me. new
12:08 mircea_popescu if they paid attention when they should have they'd have busted pirate when i said to in 2012, not waited for years on the case.
12:08 interviewee easier to act in US
12:08 mircea_popescu their mistaken politico hope that "it'll end bitcoin" will require blood to wash off.
12:08 interviewee than out.
12:08 interviewee btc is probably not going anywhere
12:09 interviewee so, they just have to live with their new reality.
12:09 mircea_popescu heh. bitcoin is going to the following place : i'll be electing the us president long after nobody remembers what an us dollar used to be.
12:09 interviewee you and many smart people think so
12:10 mircea_popescu he does sound like a lawyer doesn't he :)
12:10 interviewee i'm trying to continue to learn, watch the fireworks, and help out where i can.
12:10 interviewee hey! i'm a lawyer who used to be tech. go easy on me.
12:10 mircea_popescu seriously, get a pgp and $register it
12:11 interviewee seriously, i'll check it out.
12:11 mircea_popescu alrighty.
12:11 interviewee so, as far as this front goes
12:11 interviewee i'm doing some more of the conferences to try to teach peopel to not make dao messes again
12:12 interviewee doing some academic and poppy writing
12:12 * mircea_popescu is curious what mr hinkes will think once he gets through the logs to the bitbet receivership process.
12:12 mircea_popescu interviewee you got a blog ?
12:13 interviewee and trying to work on some materials that will be used to guide businesses that want to play with smart contracts to keep them from blowing their own heads off DaoStyle
12:13 interviewee with some people at MSFT
12:13 interviewee blog is in process. my stuff is blasted across various sites
12:13 interviewee you have my name- google away
12:13 mircea_popescu yeah, get a blog, it's the smart move.
12:14 interviewee you'll probably agree with some of my stuff, which is cool. you'll probably disagree with some of my stuff which is cool too
12:14 interviewee i'm easy to find if anyone wants to
12:14 mircea_popescu anyway - since crypto governance interests you : bitbet was a reasonably productive bitcoin crop that split up over disputes inside management, was declared insolvent, had syndic appointed, was liquidated and the whole process was closed. it was a) an ad-hoc process and b) done within 6 weeks.
12:14 mircea_popescu prolly an informative case study.
12:15 interviewee in what jursidiction?
12:15 shinohai all without the benefit of flaming tires in a shitpit.
12:15 mircea_popescu tmsr.
12:15 interviewee lol. always preferred
12:16 interviewee i have rep'd a number of receivers
12:17 interviewee so the speed in whcih you can liquidate varies based on a number of factors
12:17 mircea_popescu certainly.
12:17 interviewee if you have cooperative parties, can go smooth and fast and cheap
12:17 interviewee if you have a party fighting (like one i am involved with atm) then its a mess
12:17 mircea_popescu i just said "over a dispute inside management" yes ?
12:17 mircea_popescu nightmare of nightmares in fiat world.
12:17 interviewee we're on day 4 of evidentiary hearings on a motion to dissolve
12:17 mircea_popescu closer to divorce proceeding than estate settlement
12:18 interviewee again, divorce can be a cheap one day affair or an attenuated mess
12:18 mircea_popescu something like in "war of the roses" :p
12:18 mircea_popescu you seen that one ?
12:18 interviewee sure. good flick
12:18 mircea_popescu aha.
12:19 interviewee anyway, i've rep'd receivers tht took over 9 digit scams
12:19 interviewee and rep'd trustees that took over ponzis
12:19 interviewee in the billions
12:19 interviewee so i know my way around
12:19 interviewee those circles
12:19 interviewee google a guy named scott rothstein
12:19 mircea_popescu what a crazy world, where idiots have billions to give to scammers.
12:19 interviewee we rep'd his trustee
12:19 mircea_popescu $google site:trilema.com scott rothstein
12:19 deedbot No results.
12:20 mircea_popescu eh get out google!
12:20 interviewee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_W._Rothstein
12:20 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2010/un-model/ << 2010. i was following.
12:21 mircea_popescu guy was pretty epic, in fairness. teh roger stone quotes, nov vs july 2009 totally make the pie.
12:21 interviewee Kimmy is selling cars at a lexus dealer now.
12:21 interviewee he had hsi office across the street
12:21 interviewee *his
12:22 mircea_popescu how's debra & aimee doin' ?
12:22 interviewee i think still incarcerated
12:22 interviewee not sure
12:22 mircea_popescu aha.
12:22 interviewee greed gets the best of em
12:22 mircea_popescu no, was released 2014, pre -xmas
12:22 interviewee shit. i guess i'm not on their xmas card list.
12:23 interviewee shinohai, do you have any questions for me?
12:23 shinohai actually no, you summed up everything i wanted to know pretty well.
12:24 shinohai but i thank you for stopping in, this is a very interesting study
12:24 * mircea_popescu is kinda curious what qntra comes of this
12:25 shinohai I was curious what legal perspective in US was, thought it might end up as a Qntra
12:25 shinohai oh ^
12:25 mircea_popescu :p
12:26 interviewee ok cool.
12:26 interviewee well, i'm around and happy to join you gents/ladies if other similar issues crop up, so Shinohai, don't be shy if you want to bend my ear.
12:28 shinohai thanks! same here, consider bringing a gpg key to deedbot
12:29 shinohai im sure this dao brouhaha will bring lulz for years to come
12:29 interviewee well, my phone has been ringing a lot
12:29 interviewee getting opps to go speak is good for visibility
12:30 interviewee and as long as people are going to play with these platforms, they might as well not shit it up like the Dao.
12:31 shinohai Good to see people that understand what utter shit these platforms are though.
12:31 shinohai i dont meet too many tbh
12:33 interviewee yea, its really concerning
12:33 interviewee because the hype cycle spins
12:34 mircea_popescu you should have seen the 2010-2011 interations of pointless&witless in action
12:34 shinohai its like some sort of ponzi kyklos
12:34 interviewee my boys with Bitcoin Uncensored just did a podcast with some VC guy who was remarkably honest in saying he doesnt know what a Blockchain is and just shills them b/c investors were told to buy them.
12:34 shinohai What color do you want that blockchain?
12:35 shinohai "mauve has the most ram"
12:35 interviewee lol
12:36 interviewee i am probably unpopular but i put somethign like this out there once and caught some shit for it
12:36 interviewee http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/how-to/growth-strategies/2016/01/why-private-blockchains-will-not-replace-databases.html
12:36 shinohai someone has to stand up for immutability
12:48 mircea_popescu eh, nobody seriously aims to replace "dbs"
~ 15 minutes ~
13:04 mircea_popescu and speaking of berger singerman, check out the urgent associate : http://www.bergersingerman.com/people/nicole-s-sohn
13:04 mircea_popescu no of counsel for her, she knows about hotels.
13:10 mircea_popescu and in other news, wifebeater breakfast. http://66.media.tumblr.com/5087aeddb007112f656fa399c5f6992d/tumblr_nkg8290G741tt1lr0o1_500.gif
13:25 * hanbot gets halfway through mircea_popescu's latest article, still has no cloo
13:25 hanbot who the fuck is fred wilson?!
13:25 mircea_popescu heh.
13:26 mircea_popescu he's the wife of the woman that thinks http://gothamgal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/oysters-450x600.jpg some peak of elegance. notwithstanding the ax-hewn cutlery.
13:35 hanbot ...somebody teach me something quick so i can overwrite that
13:40 mircea_popescu ok. this is adriana chechik : http://67.media.tumblr.com/3a1a3b9e1c42d8ba0f166e113b2fbaba/tumblr_niyd7s5Xvj1tkpgw6o3_r1_500.gif
13:41 hanbot what, both?
13:41 mircea_popescu lol
13:47 phf "gothamgal"
13:48 phf "The Women’s Entrepreneurs Festival"
13:49 phf "while I work hard, I also play hard."
13:49 phf "My husband is my best friend. When I take off all of these “hats”, my most important job is being a mom. We have three kids who are terrific people."
13:49 mircea_popescu hey, better a delusional "entrepreneur" than a common wino. housewife dun got so many options.
13:50 mircea_popescu hanbot hey, speaking of, wanna go for some oysters ?
13:51 phf i'd be envious, but after all the other argentina reports, i don't trust that experience to be any good
13:51 * phf ducks
13:52 mircea_popescu well there IS a river right here...
13:52 hanbot mircea_popescu do they look like adriana chechik?
13:53 mircea_popescu nono, the seafood. i mean... the mollusc.
13:53 mircea_popescu damn.
13:53 phf well, that's what i thought, but trust it to argentinians to fuck it up somehow. ship oysters from boston, because "american" or whatever else
13:53 mircea_popescu crassostrea or w/e it's called
13:54 mircea_popescu phf in fariness i had some pretty great oysters on boston wharf.
13:54 hanbot well the japanese pop here might make decent oysters, sureh
~ 31 minutes ~
14:26 mod6 oh hey, interesting log read this am.
14:39 deedbot [Qntra] Major Socialist Party Emails Free In Time For Convention - http://qntra.net/2016/07/major-socialist-party-emails-free-in-time-for-convention/
14:44 phf %s foo
14:44 * asciilifeform takes in logz at beach
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14:44 phf oh
14:45 phf $s foo
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14:45 a111 162 results for "foo", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=foo
14:45 phf $seen blah
14:45 phf ;;seen yourmom
14:45 gribble I have not seen yourmom.
14:46 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1508943 << win
14:46 a111 Logged on 2016-07-23 10:34 deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.228.159 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.228.159 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+74.45.228.
14:46 asciilifeform moar actual-rsa pops
14:47 phf asciilifeform: ocean city?
14:47 asciilifeform lewes
14:48 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1508983 << you mean - add to!
14:48 a111 Logged on 2016-07-23 15:43 mircea_popescu: the actual legal standing is not established. it's one of those things that are a huge pile of nonsense a judge will have to cut through.
14:48 phf way classier, if that term applies to the md/de/va beach area, but missing out on throngs of russian work exchange crowd :>
14:49 asciilifeform lel classy
14:49 phf :D
14:49 asciilifeform strictly 'people of lolmart' here
14:51 phf right, lewes vs ocean city is slightly skewed from fat 16 yeard olds to fat 60 yr olds, but it's not as much of shitshow
14:51 asciilifeform both here
14:51 asciilifeform and the obligatory tatooed chix also.
~ 17 minutes ~
15:09 asciilifeform 'In 2009 Rothstein resided at the Federal Detention Center, Miami in Downtown Miami,[15] but was later moved to an undisclosed location and his inmate number removed from the Federal Bureau of Prisons inmate locator webpage.' << is there a legal logic for this?
15:10 asciilifeform ... or did hitler let him go, for a chunk of the change.
15:10 asciilifeform or shot , so he could not implicate untouchables.
15:11 asciilifeform 'On September 8, 2011, U.S. District Judge James I. Cohn granted the government's motion to prohibit videotaping Rothstein during a scheduled deposition of him, citing “serious harm” and “security reasons that are unusual in nature.” The exact reasons for the judge's decision were sealed. '
15:11 asciilifeform lulzy.
15:15 mats worried about getting murdered by the folks he stole from, perhaps?
15:26 asciilifeform mats: why would judge give half a fuck about this?
15:27 mats i can think of half a dozen reasons, all to do with publicity, subversion of justice, and embarrassing the court
15:28 mats i believe this sorta thing is common for high profile cases
15:30 mats ;;google site:ponzitracker.com sealed indictment
15:30 gribble Error: We broke The Google!
15:36 shinohai ;;later tell thestringpuller http://archive.is/oK8dV
15:36 gribble The operation succeeded.
15:37 shinohai mircea_popescu: wp isn't so bad once server is tweaked a little
15:52 deedbot [Qntra] Oklahomo Police Sniper Kills Child's Dog - http://qntra.net/2016/07/oklahomo-police-sniper-kills-childs-dog/
↖
~ 46 minutes ~
16:39 ben_vulpes my insurance company politely declined to pay for the infant's herd immunity.
16:39 ben_vulpes despite it being mandated to make payments.
16:39 ben_vulpes despite my having to pay for it.
16:39 ben_vulpes grand fucking insu^H^H^H^Hgosplan
~ 29 minutes ~
17:09 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1508941 << btw: usa, pennsylvania, 'frontier dsl'
17:09 a111 Logged on 2016-07-23 10:34 deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.231.125 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.231.125 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+74.45.231.
17:09 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1509295 << they break into houses and kill pets for a reason: to remind plebes who is boss.
17:09 a111 Logged on 2016-07-23 19:52 deedbot: [Qntra] Oklahomo Police Sniper Kills Child's Dog - http://qntra.net/2016/07/oklahomo-police-sniper-kills-childs-dog/
17:10 asciilifeform try breaking into clitler's house and killing so much as her pet flea.
17:10 asciilifeform see what happens.
17:13 asciilifeform speaking of snipers, anyone recall lon horiuchi ?
17:13 asciilifeform $s horiuchi
17:13 a111 9 results for "horiuchi", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=horiuchi
17:13 asciilifeform still a free man.
17:14 asciilifeform living quite openly, in usa, iirc.
17:14 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-08#1266237
17:14 a111 Logged on 2015-09-08 03:24 asciilifeform: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/02/william-norman-grigg/lon-horiuchi-american-sniper << for folks unfamiliar with the figure
↖
17:18 asciilifeform 'hero' of waco and ruby ridge.
~ 20 minutes ~
17:38 BingoBoingo $up thortron
17:38 deedbot thortron voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 50 minutes ~
18:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1509260 << anything came of that polymorphic zip btw ?
↖
18:29 a111 Logged on 2016-07-23 18:44 asciilifeform takes in logz at beach
18:36 mircea_popescu and in other "nobody reads trilema" news, http://trilema.com/2016/cargo-cults-a-case-study/#comment-118212
~ 24 minutes ~
19:00 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1509316 << i did bring it with me. but not yet dealt with it...
19:00 a111 Logged on 2016-07-23 22:29 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1509260 << anything came of that polymorphic zip btw ?
19:07 mircea_popescu hey, did i ever publish the pics of that fabulous old cameras and photo gear bar ?
19:09 asciilifeform not iirc
19:09 mircea_popescu ah then i'm doing that.
~ 34 minutes ~
19:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1509312 << nb.
19:44 a111 Logged on 2016-07-23 21:14 a111: Logged on 2015-09-08 03:24 asciilifeform: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/02/william-norman-grigg/lon-horiuchi-american-sniper << for folks unfamiliar with the figure
19:49 mircea_popescu http://66.media.tumblr.com/ddd4499c214070dd36aa57d07cbadf7e/tumblr_n83wzgsmI31sjo6cco1_400.gif << you haven't even seen my final form!
19:55 deedbot [Trilema] Cerrado for duelo, the aliens have landed, the camera bar and other strange - http://trilema.com/2016/cerrado-for-duelo-the-aliens-have-landed-the-camera-bar-and-other-strange/
~ 30 minutes ~
20:26 BingoBoingo $up thortron
20:26 deedbot thortron voiced for 30 minutes.
20:26 BingoBoingo ?
20:28 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
20:28 gribble Current Blocks: 422020 | Current Difficulty: 2.1349250110751337E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 423359 | Next Difficulty In: 1339 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 6 minutes, and 58 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
20:28 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
20:28 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 655.6, vol: 1198.27680929 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 649.38, vol: 2193.14869 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 655.77, vol: 9644.79851049 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 653.439085, vol: 83342.07730000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 654.599, vol: 701.83913138 | Volume-weighted last average: 653.614017551
20:32 * BingoBoingo claps http://www.loper-os.org/
20:32 thortron BingoBoingo eh nothing to say just lurking. Will pipe up when I can help on a task.
20:32 * BingoBoingo claps for http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1662
20:32 BingoBoingo thortron: But, you really can't say I used to be X without... supporting the assertion?
20:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/further-views-6.jpg << lel, photoguillotine
20:34 thortron BingoBoingo: If you ask gernika, I'm sure he would say "I agree."
20:34 asciilifeform (daguerreotine!?)
20:35 thortron BingoBoingo: in anycase consider the claim retracted, as attempting to prove it with a signed statement saying "I agree" would make any attempt to prove it worthless.
20:37 BingoBoingo ;;later tell pete_dushenski C17H13ClN4 can be a lot of things, gotta present the atoms in a way the clarifies the structure
20:37 gribble The operation succeeded.
20:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no dude that's an ancient daguerotype thing
20:39 mircea_popescu prolly took wyat earp's picture
20:39 asciilifeform i can tell, these also came with fixators for heads
20:39 mircea_popescu lol
20:40 asciilifeform (so patient dun wiggle during portraiture)
20:42 mircea_popescu http://www.splendormag.com/2015/10/have-you-heard-of-kayan-mata-herbs-big.html << random collection of everyone-knows-es. complete with image of african national behelding grannie panties.
20:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: every time i go to a junk shop, the kind with profusion of old photo gear - and that's ~all junk shops, incl. the ones i went to in b-a : i think of how the camera was in some ways the pc of its day : 1,001 vendors cranking out 'us, too'
20:42 mircea_popescu yup.
20:43 mircea_popescu very much the 1800s computer, really. including apple hipsterism and the whole array of social peribehaviours
20:43 asciilifeform 1,001 vendors, 1,000,001 interchangeable and often incompatible and often quasi-disposable widgets.
20:43 asciilifeform and yes!
20:44 mircea_popescu i suspect these actually form a class, something like "escapist technologies". up until recent "steampunk" revival, steam engine and metalworking did not enjoy same position.
20:44 mircea_popescu while certainly being much more commonly seen ; important, useful, successful, you name it.
20:44 asciilifeform eh the 'steampunk' folk mostly 'work' in broken clocks and epoxy
20:44 mircea_popescu aha
20:44 asciilifeform mishmash of sad gears etc.
20:45 asciilifeform like barbarians gluing pieces of roman mosaic to sword hilts.
20:45 mircea_popescu but from a cultural (as opposed to a civilisational) perspective, they're doing a (belated) digestion of a large field. ie, they're finally apple-izing it.
20:45 mircea_popescu things the actual people involved would have never done.
20:45 asciilifeform not 'it' but the corpse.
20:46 asciilifeform dunno what broken pocketwatches have to do with the steam titans of isembard brunel.
20:47 asciilifeform camera, on other hand, ~was~ 'escapist tech', brute brain melted when given his bit of 'dunno how it worx! miracle!111' magic
20:47 asciilifeform as then later with pc etc.
20:48 shinohai ;;later tell mod6 experiment was successful
20:48 gribble The operation succeeded.
20:48 BingoBoingo http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3112051/It-s-fault-m-fat-Overweight-10-year-old-says-s-obese-mother-wants-government-fund-trip-4-000-weight-loss-boot-camp.html
20:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didja look in the stereoscope?
20:49 BingoBoingo "Ms Thomson, who is currently unemployed, said she was left heartbroken when one day Holly-Ann came home and asked, 'mum, why did you make me fat?'"
20:49 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/further-views-13.jpg <<
20:55 mircea_popescu yeh.
20:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and?
21:00 mircea_popescu well, not much to see and i didn't want to move it.
21:01 mircea_popescu incidentally, anyone ever had burrata ?
21:03 asciilifeform sounds mouthwatering
21:03 * asciilifeform implodes.
21:03 mircea_popescu ?
21:06 asciilifeform just thinking about Real Food (tm)
21:06 mircea_popescu yeah the local variant is nb.
21:06 mircea_popescu it's an iffy cheese, one of the few that do not age period. about as bad as seafood.
21:08 asciilifeform hey lutefisk ages!!!1
21:08 asciilifeform and rakefisk..
~ 21 minutes ~
21:29 thestringpuller https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnZ4ET1VIAAdyxC.jpg:large << I know Ver-IFIED is almost milked dry, but is this what happens when you defect out of naive idealism?
21:29 thestringpuller seems dude is borderline fugitive
21:30 thestringpuller s/fugitive/exile
~ 22 minutes ~
21:53 BingoBoingo Imma qntra it
~ 17 minutes ~
22:10 deedbot [Qntra] Canada Avoids Roger VER-ification - http://qntra.net/2016/07/canada-avoids-roger-ver-ification/
22:15 BingoBoingo In other news, apparently in Preet Baharara land they eat luffa https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Ridge_gourd%28_beerakai_%29.jpg/800px-Ridge_gourd%28_beerakai_%29.jpg
~ 16 minutes ~
22:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform thinking about it, there were historical attempts to morph clockwork into "escapist tech". some idiots were literally tryingm to make tin women, hence story of gepeto and such nonsense.
↖
22:33 mircea_popescu it never took off, the suspension of disbelief required too great i guess.
22:34 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-24#1509392 << von kempelen et al
22:34 a111 Logged on 2016-07-24 02:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking about it, there were historical attempts to morph clockwork into "escapist tech". some idiots were literally tryingm to make tin women, hence story of gepeto and such nonsense.
22:35 asciilifeform but it was side show, because hand-made.
22:35 asciilifeform also because people stupid enough to actually 'tin woman' were not yet born.
22:36 mircea_popescu nah, people stupid enough were born in the age of praxiteles.
22:37 asciilifeform 'axenic-mouse'-man did not yet live.
22:38 mircea_popescu lived, lived.
22:38 asciilifeform where
22:38 asciilifeform .
22:38 asciilifeform ?
22:39 mircea_popescu in every palace there ever was.
22:41 asciilifeform what do palace dwellers need ~tin~ woman for??
22:41 mircea_popescu narcissus problems.
22:41 asciilifeform hm.
22:42 * asciilifeform stumped, on account of insufficient dirigible experience
22:42 mircea_popescu to small children and retarded adults, normal people (eg http://trilema.com/2016/portrait-of-an-adult-woman/ ) seem "dirty".
22:42 mircea_popescu which is why calling them axenic is especialloy apt.
22:49 mircea_popescu in other news "hot pursuit" is an ok comedy. sofia vergara is dumb as a doorknob, but smoking hot ; reese witherspoon is maturing into a remarkable actress. if she keeps up she'll end up a sort of her generation's maryl streep.
22:51 asciilifeform in otherer still nyooz, holy shit, i found a hidden bottle of ... halon, in this house. stamped 1986.
22:51 asciilifeform unused.
22:51 BingoBoingo lol
22:51 BingoBoingo hidden where?
22:52 asciilifeform behind a cabinet
22:52 asciilifeform was doing some repairs and found.
22:53 mircea_popescu isn't that toxic ?
22:53 asciilifeform halon?!
22:53 asciilifeform interesting precisely because not.
22:53 asciilifeform go, breathe
22:53 asciilifeform inert to man, like freon, and banned to all but usg
22:54 mircea_popescu ah yes, the danger was asphyxiation not toxicity.
22:54 asciilifeform again no.
22:54 asciilifeform did NOT work by displacing oxygen.
22:54 mircea_popescu hm.
22:54 mircea_popescu why exactly was a halon dump dangerous ?
22:54 asciilifeform but by removing the coordination complex you need for combustion.
22:55 asciilifeform halon dump was not dangerous , as such. but the co2 tanks that replaced it by usg fiat - WOULD kill.
22:55 asciilifeform via simple asphyxia.
22:55 mircea_popescu hm.
22:56 asciilifeform glorious gas, a few % in a room, can breathe ok, but cannot light a cig.
22:57 asciilifeform today halon is a costly rarity and sought out by car collectors and other folk who own flammable and easily-destroyed items
22:57 mircea_popescu well so trhen good for you.
22:57 asciilifeform of the irreplaceable kind
22:58 asciilifeform anyway lulzy, that bottle was sold at ordinary kitchen shops during the last hurrah era of usa.
22:59 asciilifeform reagan was on the throne, lispm's - running, sciam - in print, usd - worth something, sought after by orcs..
23:00 asciilifeform halon, freon!!
23:00 mircea_popescu dun worry, they'll make it great again.
23:00 asciilifeform lel
23:01 mircea_popescu not so expensive, 50 bux a pound
23:02 asciilifeform where?
23:02 asciilifeform keep in mind, 'halotron' != halon.
23:02 mats i'm reading on a cdc site that halon is approx. as toxic to humans as co2
23:02 mircea_popescu https://www.amazon.com/Amerex-B355T-Halon-Class-Extinguisher/dp/B00F5CK6HU
23:02 mats http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/124389.html and http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/75638.html
23:02 asciilifeform mats: that is, not at all
23:02 mircea_popescu mats well, co2 isn't toxic.
23:03 mats ok, ok, 'Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health Concentrations (IDLH)'
23:03 asciilifeform naturally it isn't air
23:03 asciilifeform but you dun need to displace the air, is the point.
23:03 asciilifeform works great in entirely breathable concentrations.
23:03 mircea_popescu "car" is also not toxic, unless large concentration in your liver.
23:04 asciilifeform aha.
23:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform funny, they DO charge hazmat to ship.
23:04 mircea_popescu fucking derps. any fucking excuse.
23:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: because pressure.
23:05 asciilifeform same for co2 or any other extinguisher.
23:05 mircea_popescu anyway. 150lb for 7k.
23:05 asciilifeform any item that can pop.
23:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: these bottles are ancient and come with authentication problem.
23:05 mircea_popescu apparently still used in aviation.
23:05 mircea_popescu i can see why.
23:06 asciilifeform (quite likely to be either empty, underpressure, or 'halotron' substitute.)
23:06 mircea_popescu neways, im off.
23:13 BingoBoingo http://www.returnofkings.com/91081/an-unsung-hero-the-legend-of-danny-roxo
23:16 thestringpuller ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/16PJ
23:16 gribble The operation succeeded.
23:17 BingoBoingo ty
23:22 deedbot [Qntra] Miami Man Shot By Police With Hands Up, Survives - http://qntra.net/2016/07/miami-man-shot-by-police-with-hands-up-survives/
↖ ↖
23:26 mod6 <+shinohai> ;;later tell mod6 experiment was successful << oh hey! didn't see this before. thanks!
23:38 BingoBoingo https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4u6p13/ethereum_and_construction/ << Hardfork yourself to free carpentry. If you want paid don't do Jesus Profession!
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