Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-07-26 | 2016-07-28 → ↓
00:07 BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-i/#comment-118269 win
00:08 mircea_popescu hehe
00:08 mircea_popescu i thought you'll appreciate that.
00:20 BingoBoingo Serious problems. Scarcity is a thing.
~ 47 minutes ~
01:08 thestringpuller BingoBoingo: Coinbase insolvency claims!
01:14 thestringpuller evoorhees is shameless pusherman from now til infinity: https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/758076581457776640
~ 20 minutes ~
01:34 deedbot [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] οὐδέ κεν οἵ γε γηράντεσσι τοκεῦσιν ἀπὸ θρεπτήρια δοῖεν χειροδίκαι - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/26/%ce%bf%e1%bd%90%ce%b4%ce%ad-%ce%ba%ce%b5%ce%bd-%ce%bf%e1%bc%b5-%ce%b3%ce%b5-%ce%b3%ce%b7%cf%81%ce%ac%ce%bd%cf%84%ce%b5%cf%83%cf%83%ce%b9-%cf%84%ce%bf%ce%ba%ce%b5%e1%bf%a6%cf%83%ce%b9%ce%bd-%e1%bc%80/
01:34 deedbot [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] ἄφρων δ᾽, ὅς κ᾽ ἐθέλῃ πρὸς κρείσσονας ἀντιφερίζειν - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/26/%e1%bc%84%cf%86%cf%81%cf%89%ce%bd-%ce%b4%e1%be%bd-%e1%bd%85%cf%82-%ce%ba%e1%be%bd-%e1%bc%90%ce%b8%ce%ad%ce%bb%e1%bf%83-%cf%80%cf%81%e1%bd%b8%cf%82-%ce%ba%cf%81%ce%b5%ce%af%cf%83%cf%83%ce%bf%ce%bd/
01:34 deedbot [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] οἵ τε μελισσάων κάματον τρύχουσιν ἀεργοὶ ἔσθοντες - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/26/%ce%bf%e1%bc%b5-%cf%84%ce%b5-%ce%bc%ce%b5%ce%bb%ce%b9%cf%83%cf%83%ce%ac%cf%89%ce%bd-%ce%ba%ce%ac%ce%bc%ce%b1%cf%84%ce%bf%ce%bd-%cf%84%cf%81%cf%8d%cf%87%ce%bf%cf%85%cf%83%ce%b9%ce%bd-%e1%bc%80%ce%b5/
01:45 thestringpuller ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/17Qk
01:45 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 3 hours 30 minutes ~
05:15 thestringpuller ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/17UP
05:15 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 58 minutes ~
07:13 shinohai ;;bc,stats
07:14 gribble Current Blocks: 422461 | Current Difficulty: 2.1349250110751337E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 423359 | Next Difficulty In: 898 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 1 hour, 42 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
~ 1 hours 43 minutes ~
08:57 asciilifeform in other noose, https://developers.slashdot.org/story/16/07/26/2218257/eu-plans-to-create-database-of-bitcoin-users-with-identities-and-wallet-addresses
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08:58 asciilifeform '"The European Commission is proposing the creation of a database that will hold information on users of virtual currencies," reports Softpedia. "The database will record data on the user's real world identity, along with all associated wallet addresses." The database will be made available to financial investigation agencies in order to track down users behind suspicious operations. The creation of
08:58 asciilifeform this database is part of a regulatory push that the EU got rolling after the Paris November 2015 terror attacks, and which it officially put forward in February 2016, and later approved at the start of July 2016. Legally, this is an attempt to reform the Anti-Money Laundering Directive (AMLD).'
09:12 jurov http://thehackernews.com/2016/07/tor-deep-web-spying.html
09:12 jurov According to the Tor developers, the new design will deploy a distributed random generation system that has "never been deployed before on the Internet."
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09:13 jurov "never been deployed before" is an advantage nao!
09:16 shinohai http://bitcoinocracy.com/addresses/1KwA4fS4uVuCNjCtMivE7m5ATbv93UZg8V
09:18 shinohai this whole shit repository is hilarious
09:32 shinohai ;;later tell mod6 packaged that experimental stuff into iso, will build from disk alone
09:32 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 40 minutes ~
10:13 felipelalli http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-16#1503818 << mircea_popescu a) the main issue to me is the language, I'm afraid w/ my English, I'd like to dominate more than I do. b) I'm sorry for that too. It's being very hard to keep up to date here, you guys are too fast for me! :) Also again the language is an obstacle sometimes which makes 3x harder to undertand than the normal.
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10:13 a111 Logged on 2016-07-16 13:01 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell felipelalli so a) write it and b) stop leaving, this is intended for permanent residence not hit-and-run actions.
~ 16 minutes ~
10:29 BingoBoingo ;;ticker
10:29 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 653.51, Best ask: 653.76, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 653.79, 24 hour volume: 11867.10367925, 24 hour low: 646.44, 24 hour high: 657.61, 24 hour vwap: None
10:31 deedbot [Qntra] Coinbase Fumbling Through Ether Huffing Fork Experience - http://qntra.net/2016/07/coinbase-fumbling-through-ether-huffing-fork-experience/
10:34 felipelalli mircea_popescu: why mpex isn't listed on Google anymore? https://www.google.com.br/#safe=off&q=mpex I just realized that yesterday, is that purposeful?
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10:37 BingoBoingo interesting
10:40 deedbot [Qntra] EU Trying A Bitcoin Registry Seeing How Regulation Fails - http://qntra.net/2016/07/eu-trying-a-bitcoin-registry-seeing-how-regulation-fails/
~ 17 minutes ~
10:57 deedbot [Qntra] John Hinckley Junior Released From Psychiatric Hospital - http://qntra.net/2016/07/john-hinckley-junior-released-from-psychiatric-hospital/
11:04 BingoBoingo Poles http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson-5949.html
11:10 mats finally got a letter from OPM about being compromised
11:11 mats they offered three years of free identity theft protection and monitoring services, fucking useless
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11:12 shinohai -__-
11:27 thestringpuller well the coinbase story thickens
11:27 thestringpuller people are stealing ETC from them
11:27 thestringpuller using replay attacks
11:27 thestringpuller coinbase signs an ETH-HF tx, so then attacker takes same transaction and announces it on the other chain
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11:28 thestringpuller this is a fiasco.
11:28 * thestringpuller continues popping morning corn
11:31 jurov hehe,and can this ever be prevented? i can't see how to reliably ensure propagation of divergent transactions to sides of hardfork
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11:32 jurov one has to repeatedly send to self addresses, till there's desired result on both chains, no?
11:36 jurov !up vexare
11:36 gribble Error: "up" is not a valid command.
11:36 jurov $up vexare
11:36 deedbot vexare voiced for 30 minutes.
11:37 * vexare didn't really needed that
11:51 asciilifeform in other 'yesterday's nobel is tommorrow's homework' noose, http://thehackernews.com/2016/07/wireless-keylogger.html
11:52 asciilifeform double-lul sandwich, in fact, because contains:
11:52 asciilifeform 'The KeySniffer vulnerability affects wireless keyboards from eight different hardware manufacturers that use cheap transceiver chips (non-Bluetooth chips) – a less secure, radio-based communication protocol.
11:52 asciilifeform The issue with these chips is that they don’t receive Bluetooth’s frequent security updates.
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11:52 asciilifeform '
11:52 asciilifeform RUN MOAR UPDATEZ!1111
11:54 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510282 << eu also plans to sell me a few hundred daughters and sisters of politicians by the pound for salami purposes.
11:54 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 12:57 asciilifeform: in other noose, https://developers.slashdot.org/story/16/07/26/2218257/eu-plans-to-create-database-of-bitcoin-users-with-identities-and-wallet-addresses
11:54 mircea_popescu unfortunately, the eu is more ineffectual than even argentina.
11:54 asciilifeform delish
11:54 mircea_popescu more like rachelish.
11:54 asciilifeform wake me up for the long pig barbecue.
11:55 mircea_popescu so far, entirely a war of words on both sides.
11:55 BingoBoingo <thestringpuller> well the coinbase story thickens << Note edit I made to your coinbase story
11:55 asciilifeform well, that and of rubbish alts
11:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510286 << god almighty. this may be the dumbest thing i ever heard.
11:56 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 13:12 jurov: According to the Tor developers, the new design will deploy a distributed random generation system that has "never been deployed before on the Internet."
11:56 mircea_popescu who the fuck runs tor, hillary's campaign management ? "shit positively known not to work, will be sold as distributed and hipstery". THE WOMAN IS LOSING ON THIS SCRITP! IT DUN WERK!!!111
11:56 mircea_popescu idiots.
11:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510292 << the language is an obstacle in understanding just like the hymen is an obstacle in fucking. grind that shit down! then it won't be an obstacle anymore.
11:58 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 14:13 felipelalli: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-16#1503818 << mircea_popescu a) the main issue to me is the language, I'm afraid w/ my English, I'd like to dominate more than I do. b) I'm sorry for that too. It's being very hard to keep up to date here, you guys are too fast for me! :) Also again the language is an obstacle sometimes which makes 3x harder to undertand than the normal.
12:00 trinque surely by now no one around here is taking pride in his mastery of the great english language.
12:00 trinque :D
12:00 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510297 << probably because google isn't listed on mpex.
12:00 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 14:34 felipelalli: mircea_popescu: why mpex isn't listed on Google anymore? https://www.google.com.br/#safe=off&q=mpex I just realized that yesterday, is that purposeful?
12:01 mircea_popescu lmao trinque there also is that!
12:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510303 << "and a donut".
12:01 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 15:11 mats: they offered three years of free identity theft protection and monitoring services, fucking useless
12:02 mircea_popescu if you think about it, it's a fucking great ploy to get people perma-subscribed to those "services" like they're perma-subscribed to "paying MIT & friends hedge funds".
12:03 mircea_popescu back in communist romania, "oamenii muncii" ie the "men of working" had to pay whatever off paycheck each month for "investments". just about the same thing, really.
12:03 asciilifeform in su, 'union' membership
12:03 mircea_popescu there was that, also. separate.
12:04 asciilifeform oh and party dues
12:04 mircea_popescu "why live in sane country making 500 a month ? come to AMERICA!!!11 make 5000 a month except pay 3000 here and 1800 there and 300 there and 50 there and 15 rthere and no you can't stop these fucking terrorist, you want to bring your own tribal ways to civilisation ?!?!?! make 5000 a month means you owe 500 each month! doh!"
12:05 mircea_popescu how to ruin a beautiful thing. start taking in the ustardian propaganda, actually believe it, there you go.
12:05 asciilifeform well the only thing behind the 5000 is that the workerbee owes 5000-epsilon
12:06 asciilifeform if it were 50000 - would be 50000-epsilon. and after a few rounds of printolade, probably will.
12:06 mircea_popescu epsilon my foot, by now it's like 50%
12:06 mircea_popescu it was epsilon back in the day, when the shit was getting started, 1980s.
12:06 asciilifeform who keeps 50%!?
12:06 asciilifeform epsilon ~remains~
12:06 mircea_popescu no, my numbers above are 5000 owe 500, ie 10% not epsilon
12:06 mircea_popescu irl, closer to 50%.
12:07 asciilifeform who the hell lives in 500 in usa ?!
12:07 asciilifeform indians on reservation?
12:07 mircea_popescu he "makes" 5000 spends 5500.
12:07 asciilifeform ah we have a sign inversion.
12:07 asciilifeform lolk
12:07 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-89.90-89.662 << this at work, ever again, in all socialist processes.
12:08 mircea_popescu first, "epsilon" going the wrong way. soon enough, that's 10% then 1000% then infinity% AND STILL KEEPS GROWING.
12:08 mircea_popescu we have a sign inversion and they have a graph crossing.
12:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510308 << doh. as was explained back in the day we for the first time in "the blockchain technology space" explained how a hard fork resolves economically, cca 2014ish. meanwhile the "technology leaders" of one intern and rented offices got a little overrun by events.
12:11 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 15:27 thestringpuller: coinbase signs an ETH-HF tx, so then attacker takes same transaction and announces it on the other chain
12:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: typical schmuck in ro owes 0 ?
12:11 mircea_popescu such great vc pick, coinbase, really.
12:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform typical ro schmuck owns 1k sqft of real estate and 2 cars.
12:12 mircea_popescu same of typical schmuck in ru, india, argentina or whatever else. lebanon.
12:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in ru most are mortgaged to the hilt now
12:12 asciilifeform i cannot speak for the rest
12:13 mircea_popescu well, plenty of that, sure.
12:13 asciilifeform and looking at the ar real estate catalogue, i would bet same is true there
12:13 asciilifeform who exactly will cash-buy the $150K cockroach flats in buenos aires ?
12:13 mircea_popescu it's complicated, argentinians are not intellectually advanced enough to have banking.
12:13 mircea_popescu they have some sort of tribal arrangement, but fuck me if i can explain it sensibly.
12:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform children of middle class cleptocracy parents.
12:14 shinohai beads and wampum?
12:14 mircea_popescu they do this. president cash-bought 100+ cars as "retirement"
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12:14 mircea_popescu i kid you not, with this. i know it's absurd. but she did do it.
12:16 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510311 << you first split the pot by self-sending, then send off the splits. the speciffic attack is discussed in the logs, iirc davout even had a mock implementation back when it looked like the imbeciles may be dumb enough to need the stick applied physically.
12:16 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 15:31 jurov: hehe,and can this ever be prevented? i can't see how to reliably ensure propagation of divergent transactions to sides of hardfork
12:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510321 << bwahahaha pretty good.
12:17 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 15:52 asciilifeform: The issue with these chips is that they don’t receive Bluetooth’s frequent security updates.
12:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510384 << this might not be as monumentally stupid as it appears to be: what ~else~ can orc 1) buy 2) hide 3) sell, even for a tenth of what he paid, later
12:21 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 16:14 mircea_popescu: they do this. president cash-bought 100+ cars as "retirement"
12:21 asciilifeform yes the cars are worth a tenth. so.
12:21 asciilifeform what's else to buy? gold? and then sell where?
12:21 mircea_popescu bitcoin.
12:21 asciilifeform and sell where?
12:21 mircea_popescu and don't tell me "she didn't know". she "knew".
12:21 mircea_popescu same place she bought it.
12:21 asciilifeform car is pretty much as liquid in orc world as can be.
12:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fly by pulling bootstraps much ?
12:22 mircea_popescu i do not follow ?
12:22 asciilifeform paint the picture for my education: where should the gang have bought btc ?
12:23 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/ <
12:23 mircea_popescu i've been here for years have i not ?
12:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu would take their playmoneyz ?
12:23 asciilifeform in the requisite qty ?
12:23 mircea_popescu with the requisite deals, certainly.
12:24 asciilifeform my understanding was that ~nobody actually ~wants~ these pesos
12:24 mircea_popescu but old whore wants to die as rat.
12:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i would have taken these pesos, on some reasonable conditions.
12:24 asciilifeform e.g., appointment as viceroy ? or wat
12:24 mircea_popescu which yes, do include arresting turner if he shows up within the borders.
12:24 asciilifeform lolk
12:24 mircea_popescu what lolk ?
12:25 mircea_popescu that deal would have been infinitely better FOR HER
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12:25 asciilifeform may as well ask for three castles and some daughter-salami
12:25 mircea_popescu than having usg.macri in.
12:25 mircea_popescu quite exactly asking. so what if i ask ?
12:25 mircea_popescu old woman may not refuse.
12:25 asciilifeform well seems like refused, neh ?
12:25 mircea_popescu review your favourite http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504508
12:25 a111 Logged on 2016-07-18 00:48 asciilifeform whistles the impalement theme from 'ogniem i mieczem'...
12:26 mircea_popescu old woman says yes to one, then yes to another, then yes again to the first
12:26 asciilifeform aha?
12:26 mircea_popescu why ? she knows what happens if she says no.
12:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not so much refused as "old whore wants to die as a rat."
12:26 * asciilifeform insufficiently familiar with the oldwhore et al to expand on this
12:26 mircea_popescu resolving the "live as dog or die as rat" dilemma by "it's easier to die as rat" seems stupid, but then again who knows what goes on through old whore's head. (her ass.)
12:27 asciilifeform i dun have a solid feel for what it is that ar folk actually ~want~ from life
12:27 mircea_popescu i do, and it ain't pretty.
12:27 asciilifeform '90s ru - i can grasp, yes
12:27 asciilifeform i sort of modelled ar as a kind of spanish '90s ru
12:27 asciilifeform mentally
12:27 mircea_popescu no, they're ustards^2. they "just want things to be good"
12:28 asciilifeform i thought these were folx with 'no two empanadas to rub together'
12:28 mircea_popescu lazy, stupid and desocialized, but not at all for genetic reasons. they're lazy like a schizophrenic patient with waxy paralysis is "lazy".
12:28 asciilifeform and itching for 'hay mas futuro'
12:28 mircea_popescu and for the exact same reason, entirely lost real anchoring.
12:28 mircea_popescu idem stupid, idem desocialized. the fundamental problem is that they believe a lie, and the lie became more important than anything, and as such they literally live in those vats.
12:28 mircea_popescu so much so they actually welcome rape as salvation.\
12:29 asciilifeform 'a lie', singular ?
12:29 mircea_popescu well yes singular. globalization amirite ? all lies merge if they get large enough.
12:31 mircea_popescu the case of the unfucked middle aged woman is entirely illustrative here.
12:33 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2016/and-other-things/#selection-153.0-185.55 << that one.
12:39 danielpbarron $up proslogion
12:39 deedbot proslogion voiced for 30 minutes.
12:51 asciilifeform http://archive.is/hDemD << lel
12:52 asciilifeform 'Kraken opens classic ether (ETC) markets and credits ETC to accounts'
~ 24 minutes ~
13:16 shinohai O.o
~ 28 minutes ~
13:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510414 << thinking about this, there are many moar folx who 'ought to be bitcoining but are - as far as anyone can tell - not'
13:44 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 16:25 mircea_popescu: that deal would have been infinitely better FOR HER
13:44 asciilifeform e.g., isis et al
13:45 asciilifeform various supposed 'revolutionaries' keep their fiatola, either in hefty physical bags which then feature in mexican confiscation porn,
13:45 asciilifeform or in panamanian banks, which, lately, ditto
13:46 asciilifeform i suspect that the main problem is the computer.
13:46 asciilifeform the gut of the savage senses - correctly - the witchcraft therein
13:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1509120
13:47 a111 Logged on 2016-07-23 16:07 mircea_popescu: oh, right, there's also a whole pile of claims re insider trading, manipulation etc over the "price" of "ethereum" at kraken and poloniex.
13:47 asciilifeform and opts to buy the 100 cars, which, for all of their problems, cannot disappear silently in the middle of the night because a button were pressed in ftmeade
13:47 mircea_popescu everyone yielded.
13:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: interesting..
13:47 mircea_popescu everyone, everywhere, entirely.
13:48 asciilifeform 'etc' still trading 10 per 1 'eth' neh ?
13:51 mircea_popescu so ? usg.mit spent close to 100mn to prop up eth for the past month ; now they're in the position where "the bad hacker" has a shitton of eth-c to give to "the people" to vote for him. they will, what's more, as per the usg system THEY ARE RIGHT TO. it is the "correct" modern-democracy socialist thing to do.
13:51 mircea_popescu meanwhile the eth "rednecks" are "acting against their own interest". as per usg verbiage now current.
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13:51 asciilifeform i have not been keeping up with the details: where did the 'eth' fork people move the dao coins to ?
13:51 mircea_popescu never in modern history has anyone made the lizzards eat their own vomit to the degree of splendour.
13:52 mircea_popescu orlov has a hardon for putin, but putin never ever came close to this.
13:52 asciilifeform (are they simply out of circulation? or usable somewhere)
13:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "sent back to legitimate owners" in the sense of maybe.
13:52 asciilifeform l0l! for re-rape ?
13:52 mircea_popescu but the race is on, and somehow they will have to pay largesse to the mob. whence from ? we'll see.
13:52 mircea_popescu but - they spent all this time and effort, to protect something... that they just lost control of.
13:52 mircea_popescu and now they gotta pay more for the priviledge of having paid in the past.
13:53 mircea_popescu i call this... the obamacare.
13:55 mircea_popescu "i'll pay your son to rape your wife with money taken from your house" is the byline of the revolution.
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13:56 mircea_popescu used to be known as "i'll break your arms off and beat you to shit with them", back in the day.
13:57 asciilifeform so... has an 'eth trb' yet appeared ?
13:57 asciilifeform or are the 'etc' folk stuck using last month's client forever.
13:58 mircea_popescu they'll just merge-develop.
13:58 asciilifeform (if this, they will eventually be candidates for anal reeducation, just as we would have been sans trb)
13:59 mircea_popescu scamcoin needs no treth.
13:59 asciilifeform it does, in the sense that mit et al could handily sink the 'etc' by exploiting the vulns which they, themselves, created
14:00 asciilifeform in exactly the same style as everywhere else in drepperland
14:04 mircea_popescu lmao
14:08 mircea_popescu btw, this is your cue to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1507109
14:08 a111 Logged on 2016-07-20 15:16 mircea_popescu: you're wide open, in a security sense, because of this notion of cleanliness.
14:08 asciilifeform hm?
14:08 mircea_popescu you're a one track mind the likes i've never seen. "gotta clean"
14:08 mircea_popescu anyway. ima be off to town. laters.
14:09 asciilifeform i dun really have strong shit to give re what happens to this or that alt.
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14:09 asciilifeform but point out, that enemy has certain strenghths and will use'em before it expires.
14:09 asciilifeform and 'clean' is not a word i apply to cmachineware.
14:10 asciilifeform it can be 'clean' relatively, as a public toilet sometimes is
14:10 asciilifeform but to use same word for it, as for clean dishes to eat from, is an abuse.
14:16 thestringpuller GreenAddress acquired by blockstream
14:17 thestringpuller dunno if qntra-worthy
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14:19 phf who acquired by whom?
14:21 asciilifeform what even WAS it ?
14:28 danielpbarron it was a "wallet" that used nLockTime to make "secure" 0-conf transactions if i'm not mistaken. And I think they also publicly took a stand against a bitcoin hard fork at some point. They had a representative in the chat under the nickname 'GAit' but never registered a GPG key.
14:28 asciilifeform i thought the 'lock' bullshit required fork ?
14:28 asciilifeform (to ~actually~ work)
14:28 * danielpbarron shrugs
14:29 asciilifeform as per http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920116
14:29 a111 Logged on 2014-11-13 19:06 asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element
14:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920112 << thread.
14:29 a111 Logged on 2014-11-13 19:04 asciilifeform admits that he suspects bip64 of being a plot to create usg-like bonds in btc. folks will be asked to trace X proper btc for X+epsilon 'locked' ones that are to land back in their pocket 'in the future', should they live long enough, but are actually recovable 'because this is how the world works'
14:30 asciilifeform 'physical bitcoin', as recently discussed, was/is a clunky, orcish version of this same thing.
14:30 thestringpuller well nlocktime is only supposed to be used between trusted parties
14:30 thestringpuller as you discussed years ago
14:31 asciilifeform iirc traditional bitcoin doesn't actually enforce locktimes.
14:31 thestringpuller i.e. i give my heir transaction that gives him all my btc after nlocktime block arrives (maybe 20-40 years from now)
14:31 thestringpuller it doesn't
14:31 thestringpuller but if you sign a tx with nlocktime mienrs won't mine it until after nlocktime has passed
14:31 thestringpuller so you can double spend it.
14:31 asciilifeform who's 'it' ?
14:32 thestringpuller the inputs funding the transaction
14:32 danielpbarron might have been a n-of-m key escrow then -- where greenaddress is one of the keys and that's supposed to mean you can trust their 0-conf
14:32 asciilifeform no, i ask, ~who won't mine~
14:32 asciilifeform so long as trb node accepts a hypothetical block as valid, it is mineable.
14:32 thestringpuller you can't mine based on the protocol. nlocktime means the transaction isn't valid until nlocktime has passed
14:32 thestringpuller so you can't put it in the block chain it just sits in mempool until nlocktime passes
↖
14:33 thestringpuller with OP_CLTV that opcode allows you to mine a transaction with nlocktime set
14:33 thestringpuller which was from softfork in like 2014/2015 or something
14:34 thestringpuller i always viewed nlocktime tx's as MPEx "PUSH all in case key is compromised" tactic
14:35 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0444
↖
14:37 asciilifeform do i have to draw the picture here ?
14:37 asciilifeform and guess what else, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/search?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_filestring=&_string=OP_CLTV
14:37 asciilifeform '0 occurences found.'
14:37 asciilifeform this garbage is not in bitcoin.
14:38 thestringpuller I KNOW
14:38 thestringpuller "nLockTime is a parameter that can be attached to a transaction, that mandates a minimal time (specified in either unix time or block height), that before this time, the transaction cannot be accepted into a block."
14:38 asciilifeform thestringpuller: read the linked routine. is this the actual effect ?
14:38 asciilifeform i could spoil the 'surprise', but why.
14:39 thestringpuller appears to return true if transaction's nlocktime < thresholds
14:40 asciilifeform and if not ?
14:42 thestringpuller wait is return true for failure?
14:42 asciilifeform IsFinal NEVER RETURNS FALSE
14:42 asciilifeform for fucks sake.
14:43 thestringpuller http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0448 << it kinda does :P
14:43 thestringpuller it's sorta pregnant
14:44 asciilifeform well yes, if input is nonfinal.
14:44 asciilifeform but notice, never as a consequence of locktime.
14:44 * asciilifeform also finds it interesting that the locktime nonsense is checked prior to testing the ins
14:44 thestringpuller Weird. It works in practice. (I made an nlock transaction in mid 2013 and it worked as advertised)
14:45 thestringpuller didn't realize is it was this poorly written but that's not surprising
14:45 thestringpuller cause satoshi smoked dope
14:45 asciilifeform thestringpuller: what EXTANT miners CHOOSE to mine, and what COULD be mined, if there were sane folks mining, are quite distinct things.
↖
14:45 asciilifeform see the high-S case.
14:46 thestringpuller I get that. I guess I'd have to do more investigation. Make a bunch of nlocktime transaction and see how to break it. cause it wasn't used until peter todd made OP_CLTV abomination for segwit/ln
14:46 thestringpuller used widely*
14:46 thestringpuller I don't recall seeing any nlocktime tx's in the wild
14:48 asciilifeform thing is, you won't see 'break' unless a miner cooperates
14:49 thestringpuller how so? is miner running custom code to say "i'ma put nlocktime tx in this block"
14:50 asciilifeform same deal as for high-S
14:50 thestringpuller i thought the high-S thing was due to PRB nodes fellating low-S transactions until they became high-S ones.
14:50 asciilifeform ~0 hashrate behind 100%-everything-trb-will-happily-eat protocol breadth
14:50 asciilifeform thestringpuller: mno
14:51 asciilifeform it is about miners spitting on a perfectly valid, per trb rules, tx
14:51 asciilifeform until someone deigns to repaint it
14:51 thestringpuller yea. but i'm looking at core code and the nlocktime thing seems untouched until peter todd era
14:52 thestringpuller so I dunno what I don't know.
14:52 thestringpuller the high-s thing was cause mtgox had terrible accountants and forced miners to do the high-s thing
14:53 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=0.10.0#0722 << still quite the same in prb 10 !!
↖
14:53 asciilifeform thestringpuller: i have nfi how mtgox could have 'forced miners' to anything whatsoever.
14:54 asciilifeform esp. with regards to pissing on PERFECTLY VALID tx
14:54 asciilifeform 'i won't mine this because i dun like the colour of its shoes'
14:54 thestringpuller mtgox halted withdrawals until core implemented the high-S thing in PRB.
14:54 thestringpuller This was a softfork iirc.
14:54 asciilifeform there is, as the moral of this thread in fact is, ~no such thing~ as 'softfork'
14:55 asciilifeform there is idiot miners colluding to narrow the protocol in arbitrary ways
14:55 asciilifeform this can end IMMEDIATELY if, say, we had a mining op.
14:55 thestringpuller yes. there is miner collusion to make rules more "granular" without permission from nodes
14:55 thestringpuller mining op is expensive and every miner i've procured has been a borderline drug deal
↖
14:55 thestringpuller i don't know why anyone in their right mine would want to mine
14:55 thestringpuller mind*
14:55 asciilifeform that's the issue, aha
14:56 trinque anyone ever written an existing miner?
14:56 thestringpuller i bet someone is still running Diablo miner....
14:56 asciilifeform trinque: i wrote an fpga thing, long ago.
14:56 asciilifeform it was not remarkable.
14:57 thestringpuller asciilifeform: Mining operation has to be subsidized with some other activity.
14:57 thestringpuller I suspect Chinese miners are just glorified money launderers.
14:57 trinque no, written someone *operating* a mine
14:58 thestringpuller trinque: we had one during ATC days hanging out in chan, but he was doing it for shits and giggles and not as business.
14:58 trinque perhaps one of the heads of the foundation could do that diplomacy
↖
14:58 trinque unless someone here itches to burn millions
14:59 thestringpuller it seems most mining operations turn into scams tho. i've yet to see a "legit" operation.
14:59 thestringpuller trinque: you don't need to burn millions to mine 1 block a day (more than enoguh for tmsr) you need about $150k starting capital and some good luck to hope difficulty doesn't skyrocket on you
↖
14:59 asciilifeform eh if we write to some chinese bloke (and is there a known miner in the WOT? afaik there is not, nor any reason to ever expect there to be),
14:59 asciilifeform and he writes back that he uses prb,
14:59 trinque "good luck to hope" isn't a business plan
15:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu will helpfully remind us that this is not a REAL miner
15:00 asciilifeform and real meta-miners use ???.
15:00 asciilifeform anyway i am not convinced that it is possible to actually talk to a miner.
15:00 thestringpuller trinque: it isn't, but unfortunately the way chip distribution is pretty much a cartel, you're at the whim of the universe in terms of profitibility.
15:01 asciilifeform you cannot talk to pond scum. they dun have names, or identities.
15:01 thestringpuller asciilifeform: eveyone from Gigavps to friedcat turned out scammer.
15:01 trinque fucking nonsense
15:01 thestringpuller so I personally think mining facilitates a scammer mindset
15:01 asciilifeform you ~could~ find someone who will 'i speak for the trees! for the trees, have no tongues!'
15:01 asciilifeform but this is not quite same thing.
15:02 asciilifeform thestringpuller: mining is -EV and therefore necessarily entails scamming.
15:02 trinque this magical world where there is never a reason to do something is not one I inhabit
15:02 asciilifeform it is only a question of who the chump is in a given operation.
15:02 trinque $s and anyway
15:02 a111 1507 results for "and anyway", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=and%20anyway
15:02 thestringpuller trinque: there is if you want to succumb to radiation poisoning in 3 months.
15:03 thestringpuller i've put some miners in a colo I trust near my house, but i don't see it growing anytime soon due to chip procurement
15:03 thestringpuller i also don't like putting dollars into miners when I could put them into bitcoins
15:03 asciilifeform trinque: if one day someone controls serious % of hash rate, and wishes to prove it publicly right here - you will be right, and i - wrong.
15:03 asciilifeform but dun hold yer breath waiting for it.
15:06 asciilifeform thestringpuller: afaik all of the hardware ~publicly~ sold today, is squarely -ev.
15:06 asciilifeform even in 'flat rate' dc.
15:08 thestringpuller not if i resell it to a bagholder which is easier than it sounds
15:09 asciilifeform that ain't mining
15:09 thestringpuller basically you buy mining equipment then relist it while you're mining
15:09 asciilifeform can also buy wampum and beads and resell to bagholders
15:09 asciilifeform if you know how.
15:09 thestringpuller That's not what I'm saying. Mining is temporary as hardware goes obsolete. YOu milk the hardware as much as possible, and resell it to bagholders, and buy newer hardware.
15:09 thestringpuller HENCE BLACKHOLE
15:10 thestringpuller the only way to exit from mining is to resell the hardware or mine until its obsolete and hope the principal is repaid
15:10 thestringpuller bbl
15:10 asciilifeform if you aren't chinese, whatever hardware it is you now use is YEARS out of date.
15:11 asciilifeform (or nsa, which, for the purpose of this discussion, is a variant of chinese)
~ 26 minutes ~
15:37 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510588 << iirc mircea_popescu explained that this would not work, your blocks would end up orphaned.
15:37 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 18:59 thestringpuller: trinque: you don't need to burn millions to mine 1 block a day (more than enoguh for tmsr) you need about $150k starting capital and some good luck to hope difficulty doesn't skyrocket on you
15:38 asciilifeform (naturally whether they do or not would depend on whether the cartel specifically targets you for zapping, otherwise it is matter for luck)
15:38 asciilifeform but if they 'narrowed protocol' then yes, their existing code will reject your block to build on
15:38 asciilifeform and it will be orphaned unless you can outrun the entire set. i.e. 51%ate.
15:39 asciilifeform so outcome would depend on ~where~ they narrowed
15:39 asciilifeform (i.e. only on the mempool end? or on both ends ?)
15:39 asciilifeform personally i have nfi which.
15:40 asciilifeform i do not believe that it is +ev for any miner to truthfully speak.
15:40 asciilifeform ergo anything that is uttered by a purported miner, should be seen as a strategic lie.
15:40 asciilifeform by ???.
15:41 asciilifeform i will point out that ~every word uttered thus far, by claimed miners, has turned out to have ~0 relationship with the truth.
15:42 asciilifeform (recall, e.g., last year's july phork.)
15:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510490 << so what, the solution is to pretend we don't care ? that's how they got in the shit in the first place, you eager to follow shuit ?
↖
15:56 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 18:09 asciilifeform: i dun really have strong shit to give re what happens to this or that alt.
15:56 mircea_popescu fact remains, your universal answer is "gotta clean it". not everything's made to be clean.
↖
15:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510496 << prolly no worth the trouble.
15:56 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 18:17 thestringpuller: dunno if qntra-worthy
15:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510521 << which is the idiocy here. what, seriously, MY ram is free for YOUR asking ? hurr.
↖
15:58 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 18:32 thestringpuller: so you can't put it in the block chain it just sits in mempool until nlocktime passes
16:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510573 << lol!
16:03 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 18:55 thestringpuller: mining op is expensive and every miner i've procured has been a borderline drug deal
16:03 mircea_popescu not altogether an unfair characterisation of the end user market huh.
16:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510585 << they don't seem really cut for that water. keeping the foundation mission technological in nature is prolly the safer bet for a while yet.
16:04 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 18:58 trinque: perhaps one of the heads of the foundation could do that diplomacy
16:07 mircea_popescu and in other news, girl making sushi out of just now cut salmon and things.
16:07 mircea_popescu my life is hard, but unfair.
16:10 shinohai yummy
16:14 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510638 << well i'd prefer max chaos and blood, with respect to enemy
16:14 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 19:56 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510490 << so what, the solution is to pretend we don't care ? that's how they got in the shit in the first place, you eager to follow shuit ?
16:15 asciilifeform when i 'but why let mouse go', it was from impatience.
16:16 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510640 << i suppose it is possible to watch cockfight without feeling urge to strap razors to one or the other bird...
16:16 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 19:56 mircea_popescu: fact remains, your universal answer is "gotta clean it". not everything's made to be clean.
16:16 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510643 << the extra special lul is that the crapolade ~never~ worked!
16:16 a111 Logged on 2016-07-27 19:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510521 << which is the idiocy here. what, seriously, MY ram is free for YOUR asking ? hurr.
16:17 asciilifeform nor could ever, with trb.
16:17 asciilifeform nlocktime is a decorative knob.
16:17 asciilifeform it isn't connected to anything.
16:17 asciilifeform see thread from 1hr ago.
16:28 deedbot [Trilema] Piles, the floral doll - http://trilema.com/2016/piles-the-floral-doll/
~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~
17:47 mircea_popescu myeah.
17:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's a particularly amusing cockfight, because it shows plainly and incontrovertibly that "bad hacker / criminal thief" powered socialism is better, electorally speaking, than mit-socialism.
17:48 mircea_popescu i have no idea how any of them can maintain the pretense of "thinking" and "rational" with this on the table.
17:49 mircea_popescu then again i also have no idea how the less wrong derps can live under the same sun as http://trilema.com/2016/multivariate-calculus-for-experts/
17:49 mircea_popescu cognitive dissonance is a wonderful bag.
~ 4 hours 39 minutes ~
22:28 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 11292545407594175178676347015728407315964404798513500904475751592529893233021480868652014808334425655353317917185993496061664578037945011652939076832189037 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.16.189.38 (ssh-rsa key from 201.16.189.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+201.16.189.38@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
22:28 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 11292545407594175178676347015728407315964404798513500904475751592529893233021480868652014808334425655353317917185993496061664578037945011652939076832189037 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.72.216.78 (ssh-rsa key from 187.72.216.78 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+187.72.216.78@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
22:30 BingoBoingo sweet
22:31 asciilifeform ^ brazil..
22:43 mircea_popescu remember back when we were worried none pop ?
22:45 BingoBoingo lol was that 2 or three weeks ago?
22:45 mircea_popescu bout a month or so ya
22:47 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-27#1491103 to the day
22:47 a111 Logged on 2016-06-27 14:21 asciilifeform: ;;later tell Framedragger interestingly, not one of your ssh mods has popped yet, despite the historic 0.1% popping rate claimed in previous experiments (we're about 170,000 in)
22:48 mircea_popescu lol check that out.
22:49 mircea_popescu in other news, "BEING AN ILLITERATE OR A LITERATE IS NOT A BARRIER TO BEING A MILLIONAIRE"
22:54 BingoBoingo Well, who needs words to number?
22:55 mircea_popescu word.
23:02 BingoBoingo 12
~ 45 minutes ~
23:47 deedbot [Qntra] Cow Hospitalizes Police Officer And Damages Patrol Vehicles - http://qntra.net/2016/07/cow-hospitalizes-police-officer-and-damages-patrol-vehicles/
23:52 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
23:52 gribble Current Blocks: 422550 | Current Difficulty: 2.1349250110751337E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 423359 | Next Difficulty In: 809 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 5 hours, 21 minutes, and 13 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
23:52 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb
23:52 gribble BTCChina BTCRMB last: 4382.96, vol: 80007.72580000 | Volume-weighted last average: 4382.96
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