Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-07-02 | 2016-07-04 → ↓
01:13 * ben_vulpes will be attempting something like that next move in all likelihood
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01:24 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Are you in the camp of fixing putting in essentials and being cool with not doing everything at once, or are you in camp alf who want to turn ghetto dirigible into yet another suburan cookie cutter thing.
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~ 19 minutes ~
01:44 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: my style of remodeling is to install the range and hood and for baby doll to apply finish and molding as nursing cooking laundry and meal planning afford time
01:44 BingoBoingo aha
01:44 ben_vulpes upper body work for those with upper body strength, finishing work for those who want things pretty.
01:53 mircea_popescu sounds like what made america great.
01:56 BingoBoingo No leaks in the plumbing, no arcs in the wiring, and you're good
02:00 ben_vulpes p. low bar
~ 15 minutes ~
02:15 BingoBoingo High bar for camping tho
~ 1 hours 11 minutes ~
03:26 deedbot [Trilema] Why is that ? - http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/
~ 6 hours 26 minutes ~
09:53 mats mircea_popescu: I was thinking of this http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-05#1477296
09:53 a111 Logged on 2016-06-05 13:40 asciilifeform: 'civilization' yields bug-men and cn has 5000 yrs of practice, while white man is a n00b.
09:56 mats mircea_popescu: bare metal as in, a server intended for a single tenant, in contrast to 'cloud'
~ 36 minutes ~
10:32 trinque mats: seems moar like you'd pay per request of whatever is offered through the UCI
10:32 trinque I'm thinking of it like "pay for access to API"
10:33 trinque whether that's me advocating what I want or describing what's been said
10:33 * trinque shrugs
~ 24 minutes ~
10:57 mircea_popescu mats myeah. the european notion of china is still very much a sort of "empire of cockroach". absurd yet perennial.
10:58 mircea_popescu mats no, the unobvious part in all that is, i suppose for lack of vocal underlining, the owner. in the uci model, any individual piece of hardware has one owner, who makes it available through the uci, sets the prices, etc ; and some tenants.
10:59 mircea_popescu trinque no, it's pretty close, a sort of universal api for computers.
11:00 asciilifeform re china, lulzy : http://lithub.com/modern-china-is-so-crazy-it-needs-a-new-literary-genre
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11:00 asciilifeform 'Early in 2015, a department head at the National Development and Reform Commission was investigated for corruption. In his apartment they found more cash than they could count by hand. They got currency-counting machines so they could zip right through the counting, but they burned out four of the machines before they got a final tally, which was more than 200 million Renminbi, which is about 31 million US dollars.'
11:00 asciilifeform 'Second example. Guo Boxiong is a retired general in the People’s Liberation Army. When Guo was investigated for corruption, they found so much cash in his home that they couldn’t even try to count it with a currency-counting machine. They had to weigh it by the ton. They needed a truck to haul it all away.'
11:01 mats should've bought some buttcoins
11:01 asciilifeform reminds me of mavrody's 'mmm' chumpatron
11:01 asciilifeform where they ran out of where to put the dough
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11:08 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495543 << insisting on working kitchen, so that i can eat food, and working climate machinery, so my five figs of b00kz dun rot, is 'suburban cookie cutter'? lolk.
11:08 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 05:24 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Are you in the camp of fixing putting in essentials and being cool with not doing everything at once, or are you in camp alf who want to turn ghetto dirigible into yet another suburan cookie cutter thing.
11:11 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495502 << continuing re the motorcycles, after reading some moar lafond, i realized why i've never seen them elsewhere: they aren't street-legal in usa - no tags, no lights
11:11 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 02:31 asciilifeform: whole thing is maybe as tall as a chair's seat !
11:12 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495542 << ben_vulpes could literally buy entire street in bmore for what he is almost certainly paying in the white man's land
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11:12 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 05:13 ben_vulpes will be attempting something like that next move in all likelihood
11:13 phf you get complete climate control with a combination of dehumidifier, window ac unit and an air purifier, which you can scale as needed. extra ac in bedroom, extra dehumidifier in bathroom, etc.
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11:14 phf i suspect it's a dodgy proposition in the death area, because someone will definitely try and steal AC out of your window
11:14 asciilifeform this also.
11:14 phf (that's why you sometimes see cages shaped to window and ac)
11:14 asciilifeform but also that if you add it all up, it begins to resemble the cost of 'actual' house.
11:14 asciilifeform which makes the entire project wholly uninteresting.
11:14 phf well, i've added it all up, and it doesn't ever
11:15 asciilifeform for reference, 'actual house' in bmore is about 100k.
11:15 asciilifeform (of same type as the pictured one, but in working condition)
11:15 phf yes, and necessary parts for kitchen/climate control will run you 2-3k
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11:15 asciilifeform LABOUR
11:15 asciilifeform not parts.
11:16 mircea_popescu in other news, http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/#comment-117906 << i just produced a proper definition of slave empire! formal and all!
11:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: link in the comment is broken
11:19 mircea_popescu fixing.
11:20 mircea_popescu thar
11:20 asciilifeform nope
11:20 asciilifeform still not clickable
11:22 mircea_popescu grh
11:22 phf asciilifeform: oh you're not thinking of installing those things yourself?
11:22 mircea_popescu did you reload the page or something ? i can click it.
11:22 asciilifeform reloaded. same.
11:22 mircea_popescu what the shit.
11:23 phf mircea_popescu: "<a hrerf=..."
11:23 asciilifeform phf: it is possible to install wiring yourself, yes. but the house will not be sellable unless you are licensed electrician.
11:23 asciilifeform this may or may not also apply to plumbing in that city.
11:24 phf i thought goal was zero rent, rather then resale value?
11:24 mircea_popescu https://archive.is/cXrc0 << somehow clickable there.
11:24 mircea_popescu ahahaha what.
11:24 asciilifeform phf: the goal is to not also have an albatross.
11:24 mircea_popescu phf no ?
11:24 asciilifeform quite aside from all other goals.
11:25 * phf gives up
11:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not clickable.
11:25 phf mircea_popescu: A _HRERF_
11:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu must be using a 'postel's law' - 'attempt to transform barf into html' browser.
11:25 asciilifeform i'm about to ~hrerf~
11:25 asciilifeform srsly
11:27 mircea_popescu hm
11:27 mircea_popescu o wait, i was fixing another one :D
11:27 mircea_popescu sorry guise.
11:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495562 << and the literary genre in question is "the us is so assburgerdly fucktarded it is its own, if marginal, genre fiction."
11:30 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 15:00 asciilifeform: re china, lulzy : http://lithub.com/modern-china-is-so-crazy-it-needs-a-new-literary-genre
11:30 mircea_popescu meanwhile rest of world continues, disinterestedly.
11:31 mircea_popescu get a load of these schmucks. step 1 : pretend inept, boring shit like "star trek" and "the assvengers" is fiction. step 2 : pretend even more inept, boring shit like "star trek 8" and "assvengers 7.3" is ALL THE POSSIBLE FICTION. step 3. pretend like the ~everyone who never gave a shit about the little island of crazy "needs a new something or the other".
11:32 mircea_popescu i suppose mormon smith imagined europe needs "a new kind of mormon bible". you know, the one they've had for about 2k years.
11:38 mircea_popescu ;;seen Framedragger_
11:38 gribble I have not seen Framedragger_.
11:38 mircea_popescu ;;seen Framedragger
11:38 gribble Framedragger was last seen in #trilema 4 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Framedragger> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-28#1492083 << out of loop; soo, many awesome bitcoin nodes actually run on the same host? kinda hilarious / sad
11:40 mircea_popescu trinque can has $seen ?
11:41 mircea_popescu or hm, prolly should properly ask of phf, actually.
~ 19 minutes ~
12:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495567 << regarding this from a purely engineering perspective, what better proof that government fucked up with the printer, than when there's more dough THAN WHERE TO PUT IT
12:01 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 15:01 asciilifeform: where they ran out of where to put the dough
12:02 mircea_popescu now you know where Guo Boxiong's truckful comes from. it's a dropplet of the rain falling on all things from the comrade xi's fountain.
12:02 asciilifeform eh, the american variant (where sc4mz0rz stow imaginary printolade in faux 'havens', where their accounts get promptly zeroed out upon discovery) is scarcely an improvement
12:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495574 << omg window ac units suck wtf.
12:03 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 15:13 phf: you get complete climate control with a combination of dehumidifier, window ac unit and an air purifier, which you can scale as needed. extra ac in bedroom, extra dehumidifier in bathroom, etc.
12:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it is an improvement for the trees!
12:03 asciilifeform window ac sucks mightily. but perhaps 1% of houses in bmore have modern central air.
12:03 mircea_popescu there's a space between "window ac" and "central air". you can get a proper split unit installed.
12:04 asciilifeform incidentally an ac buildout needs a licensed freonist in usa to be street-legal.
12:04 asciilifeform what's a split unit ?
12:04 mircea_popescu just thinking about "window ac", wtf is this "feel good" nonsense. it clearly doesn't solve the problem, it just what, gives you the impression of a cool breeze ?
12:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform a split unit is this thing where the compressor and hot phase sit outside, for instance on roof, and cold head inside.
12:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: window ac is actual ac. just clunky. my first flat was inhabitable solely on account of one single window ac.
12:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that ~is~ called central air, where i live.
12:05 mircea_popescu unlike central air, you move freon gas around rather than air. so no huge tubage.
12:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, central air is when you have a huge tube and the conditioning happens entirely outside.
12:05 asciilifeform it NEVER happens 'entirely outside' ! wtf
12:05 asciilifeform only compressor ever lives outdoors.
12:05 mircea_popescu usually done for warehouses (originally, a thing from positive pressure clean rooms)
12:06 mircea_popescu but also done for condos here and there.
12:06 asciilifeform at any rate, ~any~ freon plumbing --> $$$$
12:06 mircea_popescu sure.
12:06 asciilifeform hence window boxes, where the hot end hangs out and cold end blows in.
12:06 asciilifeform ruinously inefficient on account of their proximity.
12:06 mircea_popescu yep. and on account of wtf, window, srsly ?
12:07 asciilifeform yes window. the only usable opening.
12:07 asciilifeform and installable in 5 minutes.
12:07 mircea_popescu speaking of which, i dunno that i loathe anything us as much as THE MOTHERFUCKING WINDOWS.
12:07 mircea_popescu they have these tiny shits, more insult than window. and then IT ONLY OPENS HALFWAY.
12:07 asciilifeform there are perhaps 3 or 4 separate circles of hell in usa re windows.
12:07 mircea_popescu bitch, i grew up in a land where the window is an entire wall and it opens out all the way
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12:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: photo ?
12:09 mircea_popescu uh.
12:11 mircea_popescu i dunno, stuff like http://www.ferestrepvc.md/ro/blog/preturi-modele-la-ferestre-si-usi-termopan-pvc-metaloplast-in-rep-moldova-chisinau ?
12:11 mircea_popescu obviously not the historical window in question.
12:11 asciilifeform ah hm
12:11 mircea_popescu for one thing, they were wood rather than plastic frame then
12:11 asciilifeform in usa this also exists, typically doubles as the back door of a house.
12:12 asciilifeform favourite place for burglar.
12:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform usually this is done for the 2 rooms (of 4) that have "a balcony"
12:12 asciilifeform aha, same here.
12:12 mircea_popescu it's a 20sqft slab whose main purpose is to allow the master bedroom to have proper windows.
12:12 asciilifeform quite typical in posh flats in usa.
12:13 asciilifeform quite impractical in ground-level dwelling.
12:13 mircea_popescu as opposed to http://www.crl-arch.com/Images/systems/us_alum/hurricane_resistant/iw8000/iw8000_hurricane_window_1.png inept bullshit.
12:13 asciilifeform ^ these are sop pretty much everywhere there is a window.
12:13 mircea_popescu yes, and it makes me want to put the drink down and leave.
12:13 mircea_popescu we'll fuck in the park.
12:13 asciilifeform the glass is double-layered and there is typically inert gas inside.
12:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform same for the ones i linked. of course.
12:14 mircea_popescu "termopan"
12:14 asciilifeform but yes, miniscule windows are mark of poverty, now just as in 16th c.
12:15 asciilifeform older american dwellings have titanic windows.
12:15 mircea_popescu ttp://calculator.fereastracora.ro/calcul-pret-termopan
12:15 mircea_popescu such poverty.
12:17 * mircea_popescu just did the calc, ~800 bucks for 3.55 x 2.0 meter window, 24mm float glass x2 with argon filling.
12:17 asciilifeform no, no
12:17 asciilifeform the thermal cost.
12:17 asciilifeform amortized over the life of the house.
12:18 mircea_popescu lower than concrete wall.
12:18 asciilifeform american house has no concrete wall
12:18 mircea_popescu this window insulates better than anything full brick or below.
12:18 asciilifeform it has hollow wooden thing with fiberglass.
12:18 * mircea_popescu shurgs so run a miner.
12:18 asciilifeform how does that help in the summertime ?
12:18 asciilifeform recall, shit-climate, cold winter, swamp summer
12:19 asciilifeform 'white man was not meant to live here'
12:19 mircea_popescu for srs
12:19 asciilifeform ergo tiny portholes instead of windows. and the other joys.
12:20 mircea_popescu such, such were the joys.
12:23 mircea_popescu incidentally asciilifeform anyone bothered to run the "fire hazard cost" "amortized over lifetime of house" for the shitty wood-glass napalm mix ?
12:23 mircea_popescu or for that matter the disadvantage of porthole + neon light "for energy efficiency" ?
12:23 asciilifeform what do you think.
12:23 mircea_popescu since we're doing externalities, let's do the whole shebang, not like i'm a fucking redskin and the oh-so-clever ustard is going to get to count MY externalities and just mine.
12:23 asciilifeform incidentally the bmore house had massive skylights.
12:23 mircea_popescu so let's hear it, brick and termopan window vs vinyl siding and shit on a stick.
12:23 asciilifeform it was astonishing, no mains current, and ~whole place was lit!1
12:24 asciilifeform i was floored.
12:24 mircea_popescu will end up costing 100x more before i even get my sleeves pulled up.
12:24 asciilifeform i brought a miner's head lamp with me, and scarcely had to use it, except in the cellar.
12:25 asciilifeform nobody counts fire hazard costs.
12:25 mircea_popescu "nobody". the usg doesn't. i do.
12:25 asciilifeform poor schmuck burns down, another will come in his place.
12:25 mircea_popescu meanwhile, the usg counts "corruption" against me. i don't.
12:25 mircea_popescu it's a war, after all. i count their "innocent victims" even as they count mine.
12:25 asciilifeform i was speaking from the pov of the gosplan folk who designed this crapolade
12:26 asciilifeform the cardboard houses and all.
12:26 asciilifeform and one of the appealing things re the bmore structures was that they were from a previous age
12:26 asciilifeform and actually made of things like brick and lath-n-plaster
12:26 mircea_popescu yep. kinda what's driving the entire resettling of the injuns.
12:26 asciilifeform built in 1920s at the latest.
12:26 mircea_popescu people want the houses of the grandfathers back, can't built them anymore.
12:27 mircea_popescu apparently, they want them back so bad, it's even worth destroying the police over it.
12:28 mircea_popescu (yes, the deep reason amored truck is "needed" is exactly this : moving the injuns around will require some caterpillaring.)
12:28 asciilifeform i saw 0 tanks in black bmore.
12:28 asciilifeform they are used to keep it out of the white cardboard.
12:28 mircea_popescu to slowly resettle it out of historic east coast districts.
12:28 mircea_popescu which they infested in the 60s/70s.
12:29 asciilifeform i dun see it.
12:29 asciilifeform nobody's squeezing those folk out.
12:29 asciilifeform though, interestingly, i did see a freshly-built block of cardboard condos right in the middle of the red zone. empty.
12:29 asciilifeform just like the ones near where i live.
12:30 asciilifeform they are built by the thousands as a straight scam of the banks on themselves.
12:30 mircea_popescu aha
12:40 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495657 << i have that one, it's available here, but premium feature. the kind of stuff you see on those "rich people in new york apartments" photos
12:40 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 16:07 mircea_popescu: bitch, i grew up in a land where the window is an entire wall and it opens out all the way
12:41 phf but have that at the expense of builtin "carpet" in bedroom
12:41 phf it seems like they can't quite get it right here
12:46 * ben_vulpes had that while attending uni. 8th floor, poured concrete building, enough ac to make nipples pop, gas fireplace but *electric range*
12:46 ben_vulpes they cannot get it right here.
12:46 asciilifeform fireplace?!
12:46 ben_vulpes (swimming pool! parking garage! 1100/mo for ~750 ft2 and 2 br and 1.5 bath!)
12:47 * asciilifeform at a loss for words
12:47 ben_vulpes 'fireplace'
12:47 ben_vulpes $newbox has one too
12:47 ben_vulpes but also -- electric range.
12:47 * ben_vulpes wtfs
12:48 mircea_popescu phf builtin carpet is a misery anyway.
12:48 mircea_popescu parquet, area carpets, women with carpet beaters a few times a year.
12:49 ben_vulpes never vacuum the kilim
12:50 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes electric range ? wtf is a range ?
12:50 asciilifeform american 'carpet' is a horror
12:50 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: 'stove'
12:50 asciilifeform the main perk of my current dwelling was its absence.
12:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform irani imports, "persian carpets" in romania. the shit that was common middle class in my parents' house and is now untold luxury omfg.
12:50 mircea_popescu did we live through ww3 and nobody noticed ?
12:50 * ben_vulpes has several of these
12:51 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes if memory serves, they cost ~2-3k a pop, which is to say about the same as a hundred vinyls or so.
12:51 ben_vulpes i get the ~40 yo ones, only ~1k
12:51 mircea_popescu ~month's pay
12:51 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes in dollars it'd have been maybe 30 lol.
12:51 ben_vulpes wat
12:51 mircea_popescu oya
12:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re persian carpets, recall that we also had sturgeon caviar.
12:52 mircea_popescu aha.
12:52 * mircea_popescu didn't6 like it.
12:52 asciilifeform and that in usa it is roughly same, by mass, as eating pentium-iv's.
12:52 mircea_popescu aha
12:52 * asciilifeform like it
12:53 mircea_popescu well, kids taste
12:53 mircea_popescu i also hated eucalyptus
12:54 asciilifeform my point was that much of what was ordinary or even commonplace then, is scarce and precious now
12:54 asciilifeform as result of the march to ant-civilization.
12:55 asciilifeform from mircea_popescu's felt top hat to the bmore brick house.
12:55 mircea_popescu aha.
12:55 phf black caviar at local ru store is like $100 for couple of grams
12:55 asciilifeform aha.
12:55 asciilifeform from sturgeon caviar to cars made of actual iron
12:55 asciilifeform phf: i found it interesting that EVERY ru store in dc area stocks it
12:55 asciilifeform folks buy to celebrate something, remember old civilized times
12:56 mircea_popescu well, i imagine half their patrons are riggers.
12:56 mircea_popescu you know, like wiggers but russian
12:56 phf also i looked at the apartment in philadelphia that had wall window for the street side room, 14'' ceilings, hardwood floor everywhere. was built end of 19th century. and of course the rent goes exponential. instead of $1000 that was sop for the size, it was something like $2500
12:57 mircea_popescu phf but for the floors, this is actually what the smart "fixers" do.
12:57 mircea_popescu high end stuff such as oak (we didn't count oak parquet as anything. we did peach, and cherry, and nut tree for the up end) costs to put in 1/5 of what it gets priced in as.
12:58 mircea_popescu so they'd blow up a ceiling in the entryway to make the house "look" tall, and so on.
13:02 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> what's a split unit ? << motel wall unit. Pretty good actually for previously unconditioned spaces.
13:02 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495572 << which reminds me of this girl i knew back in romania, whose grandfather had bought her uncle an entire street as a 18yo present.
13:02 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 15:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495542 << ben_vulpes could literally buy entire street in bmore for what he is almost certainly paying in the white man's land
13:02 mircea_popescu things... didn't go well for them.
13:03 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo aha.
13:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didn't go well how
13:03 phf makes sense, though i suspect particular house was untouched, or touched up anyway. reminded me of some of the golden youth moscow apartments, thick beams of hardwood floor, tiny rooms with high ceilings, certain way the place smells
13:04 asciilifeform the smell! some of the bmore houses have it
13:04 asciilifeform it was quite astonishing.
13:04 asciilifeform prolly comes from civilization-era construction material.
13:05 asciilifeform shit-age houses, just like shit-age b00kz, have 0 smell, or unpleasant faint petro smell.
13:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, jews from bukovina. first pass, the nazis. 2nd pass, the russians
13:06 mircea_popescu then communism...
13:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i suspect you detect turpentine.
13:07 mircea_popescu (~distilled pine resin)
13:08 asciilifeform where? in the new houses ?
13:09 BingoBoingo A<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo aha. << Actually I was thinking mini-split. But yes "central air" in US residential use almost always means a split system.
13:09 mircea_popescu in the old.
13:09 mircea_popescu neh ?
13:10 BingoBoingo Anyways cutting a hole in brick to install mini-split in book room is nbd, just use a sawzall
13:10 phf tmsr's own S.GCON
13:11 mircea_popescu http://environmentalairsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/100_0571.jpg << central air. here depicted, cheapskate marginal unit with flexible tubage. proper units have rigid tubes, do air purifying etc at intake point, force air through tubes.
13:11 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo even easier in autoclaved cellular concrete, w/e they call it in anglolands
13:11 BingoBoingo AHA!
13:11 mircea_popescu can use tootpick
13:14 asciilifeform lel for a second i thought mircea_popescu dug up the photo of asciilifeform's attic posted last year !!
13:14 asciilifeform it looks almost exactly like this.
13:14 mircea_popescu lol na
13:14 asciilifeform $s from:asciilifeform attic
13:14 a111 8 results for "from:asciilifeform attic", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aasciilifeform%20attic
13:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495583 << i would like to see your calculation, because actual experience contradicts it something sad.
13:18 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 15:15 phf: yes, and necessary parts for kitchen/climate control will run you 2-3k
13:18 mircea_popescu just proper fridge (1k at the very least) ; proper stove (about 500, fittings et all) ; dishwasher (another 500) touches your 2k. this includes no cabinets or other furniture, no retiling the walls, no holy shit expenses such as redoing the floor, fixing holes in walls or adding a section of roof etc.
13:19 asciilifeform nor rubbish removal
13:19 mircea_popescu and this is with free female labour to paint walls and scrub surfaces clean, and with paint, solvent and detergent included in the figures for the items (which alsoinclude transport etc)
13:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i have slaves.
13:19 asciilifeform not all of which can be done with own hands and simple equipment
13:19 asciilifeform do mircea_popescu's slaves have a duct cleaning machine handy ?
13:19 mircea_popescu last time i took over a place, ~50 girl-hours went into scrubbing surfaces.
13:20 asciilifeform it is typically a trailer-sized blower/vacuum
13:20 asciilifeform to remove rubbish from forced-air ducts
13:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform as i said, "no holy shit expenses"
13:20 asciilifeform scrubbing surfaces is something one can do, if pressed, personally.
13:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform cheapo scheme above, cheaper to replace the ducts.
13:20 asciilifeform l0l!!!
13:20 asciilifeform replace !?
13:20 asciilifeform tear up remaining walls, floors ?
13:20 asciilifeform havefun
13:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform if pressed enough, can do with own face!
13:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform hey, depends. sometime "tear the whole shit down" is cheaper than fix. besides, if i'm going to pour concrete in my kitchen, i'd much rather pour the whole floor plane.
13:21 asciilifeform cheaper to dynamite the carcass and build new, than to replace plastered-in ducts.
13:21 mircea_popescu paster is fiddy bux the ton, neh ?
13:21 asciilifeform whole gedankenexperiment was predicated on 'fix carcass'
13:21 mircea_popescu myeah.
13:21 asciilifeform vs 'build house'
13:22 ben_vulpes 'reanimate zombie'
13:22 asciilifeform the real estate agent, an old woman, send me long list of similar properties i could look at.
13:22 mircea_popescu anyway, "<mircea_popescu> asciilifeform cheapo scheme above, cheaper to replace the ducts." denotes that in the "central air" image i linked, the ducts exist in the attic as free standing tin foil. they're connected to a grate in the roof of rooms.
13:22 asciilifeform but i dunno if worth the bother.
13:22 mircea_popescu for THAT arrangement, new ducts will run you 3-400 bucks and you're done.
13:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they are such in the place i live now.
13:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: but not the bmore house's.
13:23 mircea_popescu myeah.
13:26 phf mircea_popescu: my calculations assume that you're not trying to move into up to standards place upfront. mircea_popescu: i'm thinking how much it takes to put it in a survival mode. fridge, stove and window AC, then you spend the next year working over the place on weekends. i had a few friends who did it that way, ended up with high resale value places when the area inevitably gentrified 10 years later
13:27 phf of course you have to actually be poor to do it that way
13:29 asciilifeform and yer time has to be worth ~0
13:29 asciilifeform for it to even begin to resemble making financial sense.
13:29 asciilifeform (either that or you have to ~like~ shoveling shit)
13:29 phf some people like to go about that way as an avocation
13:29 asciilifeform i suppose, the same folks who build ships in bottles
13:30 phf my time is expensive, but it's non linear. i can't be hacking 24/7, or parsing information, sometimes i need to build things out of wood to let brain reset
13:30 * asciilifeform likewise
13:30 asciilifeform which is why i contemplated the bmore thing
13:31 asciilifeform i like the idea of slowly building 'dirigible'
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13:33 mircea_popescu phf so your survival mode includes what, food spoliage ? eating frozen dinners ?
13:34 phf no no fridge, stove and window AC as absolute minimum
13:34 mircea_popescu aha
13:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform like it or not, the time of about 1/4 of us female population IS worth 0.
13:35 mircea_popescu it's either "paiont and scrub this property" or else "go to school" / "look for a job" / ruin perfectly good food "cooking" and be bitchy about it.
13:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you familiar with the house structure as a cultural item in the middle east ?
13:41 asciilifeform hm?
13:41 asciilifeform probably not ?
13:41 mircea_popescu see, to you, or in general to white people of the tribe that invented houses, a house is a thing, a definite item.
13:41 mircea_popescu but to this dubious race of the east, a house is not a definite item. instead, it is a tower.
13:42 asciilifeform lemme guess, it is more of jet fighter to them
13:42 mircea_popescu the land surface of this tower reflects the importance of the clan inhabiting it.
13:42 asciilifeform ~nothing without crew
13:42 mircea_popescu the height reflects the family fertility.
13:42 mircea_popescu so, they do not have rooves, per se. just an unfinished floor, which has a foot or two of pillar reinforced concrete, with the rebar exposed.
13:43 asciilifeform ah yeah those
13:43 mircea_popescu should any of the girls manage to get knocked up, the family is drafted to pour more concrete, make another "roof" ie floor, and fill brick in between
13:43 asciilifeform worx great in latitude without snow.
13:43 asciilifeform or much rain.
13:43 mircea_popescu yup. ie, middle east.
13:43 mircea_popescu the thing being, that you walk around the item and know the social rank of the inhabitants, and then look up and see the sluttery of the X chromosome baked in.
13:44 mircea_popescu for the anthropologist, god damned fascinating, they're like a family-sized snail building its conch.
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13:46 asciilifeform makes sense.
13:46 mircea_popescu the question to you is, are you building a dirigible in the white man sense or in the sand nigger sense ?
13:46 asciilifeform the former.
13:46 asciilifeform i have 0 use for the latter.
13:47 mircea_popescu not altogether clear this can be done http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495856
13:47 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 17:31 asciilifeform: i like the idea of slowly building 'dirigible'
13:48 asciilifeform well that was my tentative conclusion.
13:48 asciilifeform possibly it can be done, but ~not~ on shoestring budget.
13:48 mircea_popescu well, not on shoestring meat, in any case.
13:48 mircea_popescu there's ONE thing the middle eastern guy has that white man can't replicate, and that is, a stable, and here i kid you not, a stable, of dozen+ pliable obedient females WITH offspring.
↖
13:48 asciilifeform meatrobots.
13:48 asciilifeform aha
13:49 mircea_popescu the reason white man doesn't build the middle eastern tower may be whatever you wish it to be.
13:49 mircea_popescu but from HIS perspective, it's that you can't afford the tools.
13:49 asciilifeform crashed pilot on pacific island, eating caterpillars, also lacks meat robots.
13:50 mircea_popescu i guesd
13:50 asciilifeform asciilifeform's position is considerably closer to that, than to the egyptian paterfamilias.
13:50 mircea_popescu note that you're drowning in cunt, meanwhile.
13:50 mircea_popescu so no, not island.
13:50 asciilifeform 'water water everywhere, and still the boards did shrink'
13:50 mircea_popescu cairo, for the record, is a city ~the size of california.
13:51 mircea_popescu no joke. and yes, built and run like this.
13:56 asciilifeform army of meat robots may as well be cern's particle accelerator as far as i'm concerned.
13:56 asciilifeform not available, not gonna be available, not worth considering
13:56 asciilifeform not even certain that i would know how to operate it if it ~were~. etc.
13:58 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> whole gedankenexperiment was predicated on 'fix carcass' << White gase camp stove is $50 to $350. There, kitchen.
13:58 asciilifeform maybe BingoBoingo's kitchen. not mine.
13:58 asciilifeform mine bakes cakes, etc.
13:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's exactly two ways to construct value into this world. one's to take the 1/4 * 350mn / 2 = 40 or so million currently useless refuse and turn them into women. even if you only manage a small %, it's still something. aka, uranium water filtering.
13:59 mircea_popescu the other's, in the words of that pawnbroker ( http://trilema.com/2015/the-pawnbroker/ ) jew,
13:59 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> and yer time has to be worth ~0 << NO, it just has to be worth less than (tradeperson wage)/(2 or 3)
14:00 mircea_popescu "You people? Oh, let's see. Yeah. I see. I see, you... you want to learn the secret of our success, is that right? Alright I'll teach you. First of all you start off with a period of several thousand years, during which you have nothing to sustain you but a great bearded legend. Oh my friend you have no land to call your own, to grow food on or to hunt. You have nothing. You're never in one place long enough to have a geograp
14:00 mircea_popescu hy or an army or a land myth. All you have is a little brain. A little brain and a great bearded legend to sustain you and convince you that you are special, even in poverty. But this little brain, that's the real key you see. With this little brain you go out and you buy a piece of cloth and you cut that cloth in two and you go and sell it for a penny more than you paid for it. Then you run right out and buy another piece of
14:00 mircea_popescu cloth, cut it into three pieces and sell it for three pennies profit. But, my friend, during that time you must never succumb to buying an extra piece of bread for the table or a toy for a child, no. You must immediately run out and get yourself a still larger piece cloth and so you repeat this process over and over and suddenly you discover something. You have no longer any desire, any temptation to dig into the Earth to gr
14:00 mircea_popescu ow food or to gaze at a limitless land and call it your own, no, no. You just go on and on and on repeating this process over the centuries over and over and suddenly you make a grand discovery. You have a mercantile heritage! You are a merchant. You are known as a usurer, a man with secret resources, a witch, a pawnbroker, a sheenie, a makie and a kike! "
14:00 mircea_popescu the only question before you, mr alf-form, is : are you a jew ?
14:01 asciilifeform supposedly.
14:01 mircea_popescu well in that case.
14:01 phf :)
14:02 mircea_popescu film's definitely a must watch, in any case.
14:03 mircea_popescu $s makie maker
14:03 a111 1 results for "makie maker", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=makie%20maker
14:03 mircea_popescu o i mean,
14:03 mircea_popescu $google makie maker
14:03 deedbot https://mymakie.com/makie/design/ << Makie Maker | Makies | https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/makies-fablab-design-create/id806174619?mt=8 << Makies FabLab: Design, Create & Style Doll Fashion Maker on the ... | https://mymakie.com/ << Makies - Create Your Own Doll! (US)
14:04 mircea_popescu apaprently, makie's fine!
14:04 asciilifeform dafuq
14:04 mircea_popescu it didn't luck out to be picked by the "identity politics" circus, so it's not an insult at all! fancy its luck.
14:05 mircea_popescu meanwhile, sand nigger is "intrinsically" insulting, dontchaknow.
14:05 asciilifeform anyway, asciilifeform is not a jew in the sense contemplated in the quote. this requires 'heritage' to stand on the shoulders off - uncles who will invest in your schemes, etc. -- but instead is more of crashed flyer.
14:05 mircea_popescu welllll then...
14:05 asciilifeform working with own hands.
14:05 asciilifeform (and 1 set of pet)
14:05 mircea_popescu so what, you're moses ?
14:05 asciilifeform whatchatalkingabout, moses had mega-meat-army
14:05 mircea_popescu only after.
14:06 asciilifeform before - it was army-in-being.
14:06 mircea_popescu seems to be the dream here - if i carve the right words into immutable functional space, mega meat army pops.
14:06 asciilifeform much more modestly.
14:06 mircea_popescu there are things upon which modesty is impossible.
14:06 asciilifeform testing hypothesis 'it is possible to build box to keep the rain out, with own hands and minimal expenditure'
14:07 mircea_popescu "modestly, m'lady, i just want my spunk coming out your nose, s'all."
14:07 asciilifeform y'know, the thing ~100% of our ancestors managed to do.
14:07 mircea_popescu no such wonder.
14:07 mircea_popescu no fucking ancestors built house for themselves.
14:07 asciilifeform plenty of folks did
14:07 mircea_popescu the ones like you, without uncle, fought hyena for cave. about as likely to "construct" cave as hyena.
14:07 mircea_popescu the ones like the jew, lived in house invested by uncle, see above re cairo.
14:09 asciilifeform at any rate, caterpillars are not find cuisine but that's what i'm gonna eat on this here island.
14:09 asciilifeform because what else.
14:10 mircea_popescu well, i'm nor one to ineptly suggest stuff. "Hey, you building house ? look into geodesic dome / $random crap!" because that's what i last read in Nature and i fancy myself a cultivated fellow.
14:11 mircea_popescu instead, i'm merely exploring the known, as found in this here endless library.
14:11 mircea_popescu perhaps it's useful, though i have no idea how it would be.
14:11 mircea_popescu that's your job.
14:11 asciilifeform hey i enjoyed experimental test for a change
14:11 asciilifeform vs armchair.
14:12 mircea_popescu you know what the next step is, right ?
14:12 asciilifeform hm?
14:12 mircea_popescu "bitch, get your ass to baltimore and don't come back until you've picked up a local."
14:12 asciilifeform ick
14:13 mircea_popescu this is why slavery doesn't work as an educational ploy without the whip.
14:13 asciilifeform why not send to fuck monkey in the zoo, also
14:13 asciilifeform and bear in the woods.
14:13 asciilifeform mega-project.
14:14 mircea_popescu it's not yours to question why.
14:14 mircea_popescu and importantly, pick up makes no specification re fuck.
14:14 asciilifeform wtf do i need the local fauna for.
14:14 asciilifeform srsly
14:15 mircea_popescu local fauna lives there, amirite ?
14:15 asciilifeform if you can call 'food depot' etc. living.
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14:15 mircea_popescu do they or don't they ?
14:15 asciilifeform apparently
14:15 mircea_popescu and you wish to do the same. on your own terms, sure, but the point is - the same.
14:15 mircea_popescu gee whiz, what the fuck sense could it make to interact with the very subject of your interest!
14:15 asciilifeform when i go sailing i will be sure to also ask her to pick up some fish so we can learn from them how.
14:16 mircea_popescu aha. do so.
14:16 mircea_popescu da vinci also.
14:16 asciilifeform and learn to breathe water.
14:16 asciilifeform from them.
14:16 asciilifeform (notice i said 'go sailing' not 'build boat')
14:16 asciilifeform incidentally i factored in cost of NOT going to 'food depot' etc. and it is quite high.
14:17 deedbot [Qntra] US Plagued By Tainted Flour - http://qntra.net/2016/07/us-plagued-by-tainted-flour/
14:17 asciilifeform ^ quite pertinent !!
14:18 mircea_popescu yeah you'll need cellar etc.
14:18 mircea_popescu but - on the upside, teach girl to cure meats etc, loads of fun uber valuable skills.
14:18 asciilifeform potentially.
14:18 asciilifeform cellar was not very large tho.
14:19 mircea_popescu in principle a household should be capable to intake 500 lbs of freshly slaugthered pig and craft it into food supplies worth ~1 1/4 mn delicious calories
14:19 asciilifeform whole experiment went precisely like my 'what would it take to launch a satellite' thing.
14:19 asciilifeform ... conclusion being, ~other~ folks, with serious economic weight behind them, can and do indeed launch sats.
14:19 asciilifeform poorfags - not.
14:20 mircea_popescu what capital figure did you come up with as ther threshold ?
14:20 asciilifeform i could say a number but it will be misleading, for same reason as the private jet thread
14:20 mircea_popescu hm ?
14:20 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-21#1486041 << it
14:20 a111 Logged on 2016-06-21 00:38 mircea_popescu: it's a "have a hundred slaves" machine.
14:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-21#1486039
14:21 a111 Logged on 2016-06-21 00:38 mircea_popescu: in the sense a luxury car is "100k" or a cellphone "1500". yeah, right, read the maintenance contracts.
14:21 mircea_popescu well, let's have it, worry about that after.
14:21 asciilifeform again, the number is potentially $maxint, depending on how much of civilization you gotta rebuild in order to even play
14:21 asciilifeform because it isn't available 'retail'
14:21 mircea_popescu your experiment will have to be re-done.
14:22 asciilifeform as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-29#1492732
14:22 a111 Logged on 2016-06-29 15:39 mircea_popescu: no warehouse, no bauxite.
14:23 asciilifeform so for instance, upon first look it appears that 20-30mil u.s. will get you a simple 'bent pipe' launched into orbit, but then you notice that you gotta be in 3 different wots that asciilifeform isn't in.
14:23 asciilifeform and so forth.
14:23 asciilifeform and the cost of ~getting~ in, even if physically possible, is not calculable in any straight manner.
14:24 asciilifeform (what is the cost of becoming a circus acrobat?)
14:24 mircea_popescu i'd say high six figures in actual, liquid capital, should be sufficient. that's ~1k btc atm.
14:24 asciilifeform high six figures + being mircea_popescu
14:24 asciilifeform probably would work
14:24 asciilifeform high six figures and being a rube ?
14:24 asciilifeform just makes a dead rube
14:24 mircea_popescu work that asshole!
14:24 asciilifeform just makes for sore arsehole, neh ?
14:24 mircea_popescu but yes, granted, the spot's not for everyone.
14:25 asciilifeform see, that was my contention, that the thing HAS NO COST
14:25 asciilifeform not in the sense those 88 cent cans of tuna have a cost.
14:25 asciilifeform you have to 'be someone'
14:25 mircea_popescu right.
14:26 shinohai http://archive.is/MdA2J <<< Obama dreams of being nubbins` when he leaves office.
14:27 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo
14:27 asciilifeform note, quite a few folk have 1k btc, but no - afaik - launches.
14:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform complex. pretty thin middle class in btc. people > 10k or <100 , broadly.
14:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform bear in mind, however, that ~ANY woman can be trained to, eg, http://66.media.tumblr.com/9e19e1efb34b4219d13570f08d85a19f/tumblr_nv091t4hkt1uwpmxro1_400.gif
14:28 * asciilifeform has no pertinent recent data and will take mircea_popescu's word fo rit
14:29 mircea_popescu it's deeply unclear to me the acrobat, rather than the stripped that comfortably dps, is at issue here.
14:29 mircea_popescu stripper*
14:30 asciilifeform and any house can be rebuilt
14:30 mircea_popescu in other words, i don't believe manhood to be much of an innate talent. there'\s good arguments for the position.
14:30 asciilifeform question is the labour.
14:30 asciilifeform not everybody is a born animal trainer.
14:33 mircea_popescu howevert yuou state it, manhood can't be much of a talent.
14:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu likes to roll all manners of particular mircea_popescuinities into concept of 'manhood'
14:34 asciilifeform so, e.g., if you dun like taming scorpions, you ain't man
14:34 asciilifeform etc
14:34 mircea_popescu yes. who's to call me on it ?
14:34 asciilifeform the alert reader!111
14:34 mircea_popescu the alert man-reader or just merely reader ?
14:34 asciilifeform the alert martian-reader, hell.
14:34 mircea_popescu mno. no such wonder.
14:34 asciilifeform this isn't a sin peculiar to mircea_popescu either.
14:35 mircea_popescu so far we're working on whether it's, strictly speaking, a sin
14:36 asciilifeform only in the sense that a furniture store run by a giant is 'sinful'
14:36 asciilifeform selling chairs that ordinary man could put entire living room on
14:36 * mircea_popescu also defines the grammar of languages, eg. romanian. and then "alert reader" calls him on it, and mp says fuck you, language is codified by the languagemaker, the poet and the genius generally. which is me, not you. now fix those cookbooks and laundry lists you call "grammar books"
14:37 asciilifeform next phase is of course full-bore tolkien
14:37 asciilifeform where existing langs aren't even enough for the truly 1333333333337
14:37 mircea_popescu or late days gauss, of course.
14:37 asciilifeform aha.
14:37 * asciilifeform understands this quite well.
14:38 asciilifeform the arses, however, expand very slowly, to fit the chairs.
14:38 asciilifeform a good chunk of gauss hasn't even been typeset yet (!)
14:42 mircea_popescu aha
14:44 asciilifeform in other adventures, i made the mistake of trying to set up a 2nd bl0g, for rubbish
14:44 asciilifeform and realized that if i were starting first one today, would prolly have just given up.
14:44 mircea_popescu heh
14:44 asciilifeform there is NO public software worth considering.
14:44 asciilifeform it is all liquishit.
14:44 asciilifeform and normally you can even tell from 5 seconds! of looking at author's page.
14:44 asciilifeform without even READING
14:45 asciilifeform just watching the js turds flicker.
14:46 asciilifeform ben_vulpes, trinque, BingoBoingo, et al ^^ anyone have a counter-example handy ?
14:46 mircea_popescu you can just use my wp neh ?
14:46 asciilifeform i fucking hate wp
14:47 mircea_popescu sure. but it ~works.
14:47 mircea_popescu no shit.
14:47 asciilifeform would really like to dispense with the db crapolade.
14:47 asciilifeform i dun need multiple concurrent editors or whatever other rubbish.
14:47 asciilifeform strictly files on disk plox.
14:50 phf asciilifeform: https://github.com/kingcons/coleslaw ?
14:50 asciilifeform 'git for storage' ?!!
14:50 asciilifeform tr0l0l0l
14:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform then just write straight html, what.
14:51 mircea_popescu you can do it, all i use are like 5-6 tags.
14:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: too much sweat per rubbish photo.
14:51 * mircea_popescu confesses to being tempted by such a scheme many times past, because that way the headers would be historically accurate.
14:51 asciilifeform it is probably what i'll end up doing, but it crosses over the worth-doing threshhold to wrong side.
14:52 mircea_popescu you can tell a shit language (html) by the fact that as it matures it goes back where it started from : infancy.
14:52 mircea_popescu write markup by hand wtf barbarism is this
14:52 asciilifeform aha.
14:52 mircea_popescu on the upside you can prolly have emacs macro to properly handle image linkage if you have a fixed scheme
14:52 mircea_popescu for names i mean.
14:52 asciilifeform probably but this is again the bmore house
14:53 asciilifeform suddenly what seems like 'trivial' work, balloons into a lifetime of crud.
14:53 mircea_popescu aha.
14:53 trinque I tend to use static site generators
14:53 mircea_popescu i ftr am very happy with my frozen wp cube
14:53 mircea_popescu from this pov.
14:53 phf trinque: i suggested one, ascii couldn't get past first line
↖
14:53 trinque so write one alf
14:53 trinque they're an afternoon tops
14:53 asciilifeform mno.
14:54 asciilifeform not if you want it to actually work.
14:54 trinque wtf is this "actually"
14:54 asciilifeform (e.g., spit rss for trinque's bot)
14:54 mircea_popescu alf admits he is shitty codewright ?
14:54 asciilifeform i dun even DO wwwtronics!11111
14:54 asciilifeform ferfuxsake
14:55 mats psh
14:55 * trinque hated on the wiki recently; maybe I'll write a CL html generator sometime soon
14:55 trinque I'll want one for bot doings soon anyway
14:57 trinque the idea of a "web framework" generating pages each request is insane, even on high-churn sites
14:57 trinque they do this, then "caching" gets involved
14:57 trinque cache on disk! in a file!
14:57 asciilifeform what i want is to generate them ONCE, when EDITED.
14:57 asciilifeform then serve up static.
14:57 trinque right!!!
14:57 trinque exactly that.
14:57 phf trinque: coleslaw is a static site generator written in cl
14:57 mircea_popescu trinque it's not as bad as it seems theoretically, on the grounds of apache being utter shit.
14:57 asciilifeform but 0 public examples.
14:57 asciilifeform 0.
14:57 phf ffs
14:57 asciilifeform phf: git. so no go.
14:57 asciilifeform i want NO DEPS
14:58 trinque V ?
14:58 asciilifeform srsly what is so hard to understand.
14:58 phf asciilifeform: git is an optional deployment option
14:58 mircea_popescu lol. srsly.
14:58 asciilifeform and editor via wwwbrowser.
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14:58 trinque my emacs is not in wwwbrowser!
14:59 mircea_popescu in entirely unrelated news : so yesterday because pears were exceptional, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1495366
14:59 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 01:32 mircea_popescu bought a coupla dozen, chopped them off, stuck in jars with clove, muskatnuss, a little alspice and about 3 bottles of cognac
14:59 asciilifeform a rubbish blog gotta be augmentable from devices other than battlestation
14:59 mircea_popescu today, tried the contents. pears delicious, the liquoir a bit strong. brewed fresh pot of coffee, added it in. OMFG best coffee ever.
14:59 mircea_popescu mpailey's!
14:59 asciilifeform sounds like mircea_popescu takes in more ethanol than water nao
14:59 phf wwwbrowser disqualifies coleslaw
15:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform bout the usual quart a week.
15:00 asciilifeform ah then normal adult man l0l
15:01 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> strictly files on disk plox. << werc?
15:01 mircea_popescu anyway, to the topic : the lot of you've got to be insane to opine on the matter without actually trying the set-up i declare to be happy with, which also carries the endless millions of trilemawords, longer than any codeball ever written.
15:01 mircea_popescu but hey, that's just me.
15:01 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ?
15:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how much is normal per your book ?
15:01 asciilifeform about quart, lel
15:01 mircea_popescu aokthen!
15:01 mircea_popescu we're white, what. that's what it's for.
15:01 asciilifeform prettymuch.
15:02 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: By the cat-v plan9 people
15:02 phf BingoBoingo: that one's missing browser integration
15:02 BingoBoingo lol
15:02 mircea_popescu wait, so no www, no non-www ?
15:02 mircea_popescu and no emacs ?
15:03 mircea_popescu what is this, "do what i dream" ?
15:03 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1496119
15:03 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 18:58 asciilifeform: and editor via wwwbrowser.
15:03 mircea_popescu ah
15:03 asciilifeform AND it needs plan9!!!!
15:03 phf i'm not even sure why i'm participating in this conversation, y'all just ranting over each other :>
15:03 * phf goes to setup wordpress
15:03 asciilifeform i just downloaded, states quite clearly, that it runs strictly on plan9.
15:03 mircea_popescu phf gimme a sec ima package what i run.
15:04 mircea_popescu it's slightly modified.
15:04 asciilifeform oodles of shell crapolade in there.
15:04 mircea_popescu mostly for spamhandling purposes.
15:07 phf kk
15:07 phf by the way, what's wrong with current %seen?
15:07 phf %seen phf
15:07 mircea_popescu %seen naked sluts
15:07 mircea_popescu i dunno... you tell me ?
15:08 phf ;;seen phf
15:08 gribble phf was last seen in #trilema 35 seconds ago: <phf> %seen phf
15:08 mircea_popescu heh
15:11 phf though could probably use same nick matches as that's used in from:, so that $seen ascii will return last of many ascii_field, ascii_orc, ascii_butugychag ...
15:12 mircea_popescu mhm
15:13 asciilifeform i looked at 'flatpress', and barfed, it is 1000s of lines
15:13 asciilifeform WHY
15:13 asciilifeform THE FUCK
15:13 asciilifeform does a motherfucking blog engine need to weigh 1000s of lines of ???.
15:14 phf presumably needed to "actually work"
15:14 asciilifeform retardation.
15:14 asciilifeform compare mass of, e.g., 'v' vs 'git'.
15:15 asciilifeform does v not actually-work ?
15:15 phf i dunno, nobody's actually using it
15:15 * asciilifeform uses.
15:19 asciilifeform i will note that, e.g., 'Doom', was under 50,000 lines !
15:20 asciilifeform in other nyooz, phuctor has crunched all of sks circa may 2016.
15:21 phf so do i, but we don't send patches to each other. v needs a distribute team to put it through paces, but every time we do, we et lively philosophical conversations as to how it supposed to actually be used
15:22 phf *we end up with
15:22 asciilifeform phf: iirc it ended with mircea_popescu's pithy observation that perhaps folks should not even expect to be able to use other peoples' patches directly, but rather each maintain own tree
15:22 asciilifeform and hand-pollinate
15:23 mircea_popescu not quite.
15:23 asciilifeform this, however, is considerably more painful than it has to be, because wwwtronics is liquid shit
15:23 mircea_popescu the statement was that PEOPLE SHOULDN'\ EXPECT TO REUSE other people's patches in contexts not intended by those other people ; but instead hand pollinate.
15:24 asciilifeform for some reason you can't presently go 'gimme asciilifeform's latest patches'
15:24 mircea_popescu this says nothing re common trunk ; it's a discussion of #import idiocy.
15:24 mircea_popescu it's strictly a "yes, shit and myelin both go into body, but there's a membrane between them".
15:26 asciilifeform thread concerned merging.
15:26 asciilifeform ended with 'merging is for lamerz'
15:26 asciilifeform 'Real Man merges by reading, then burning the telegram, and rewriting'
15:27 asciilifeform i did not come up with any serious objection. but it may yet be the case that this is a chair for giants.
15:27 asciilifeform as phf seems to suggest.
15:27 asciilifeform four-handed sword.
15:27 mircea_popescu it's just that i see a lot more compartments, separate, than is customary in "the profession"/"the biz".
15:28 mircea_popescu there's an inviolate margin between ideal-code and deployed-code for instance. which this crude notion of "merging" aims to breach.
15:28 asciilifeform how's that
15:30 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> AND it needs plan9!!!! << It needs plan9 UTILITIES, available on any nixen
15:33 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: realize, yer still talking about a WHOLE OS USERLAND
15:33 asciilifeform you don't get to not count it in the weight of the proggy.
15:34 phf only acceptable solution is 200 lines of ADA, that you can run on dos (equivalently baremetal) and needs www interface
15:35 asciilifeform wouldn't go this far, but ought to use the pieces already in the rubble
15:35 asciilifeform e.g., python, or whatever
15:36 asciilifeform 'phuctor', say, is 600 ln of py and 200 of c.
15:36 asciilifeform and probably could be considerably smaller.
15:37 mircea_popescu phf http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/wp-mptargz.gpg << it's all there ; run a grep over the files for "fill your own" to see what you need to add ; you'll also need a theme (goes in /wp-content ) and obviously a mysql db.
↖
15:37 mircea_popescu let me know if you have trouble standing it up, i'll debug for free!
15:37 asciilifeform ty mircea_popescu, this might come in handy
15:37 mircea_popescu if anyone else wants it sure - jus' say.
15:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's to his key. you want also ?
15:37 asciilifeform ah yes
15:37 asciilifeform plox.
15:38 mircea_popescu kk. anyone else ? save me an upload and speak nao ?
15:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/wp-mp-alftargz.gpg
15:39 asciilifeform ty mircea_popescu
15:40 mircea_popescu also - if anyone feels like undertaking maintenance for this, on like a V tree and everything, i wouldn't be at all against.
↖
15:41 mircea_popescu for one thing - splendid entry level project to learn v without having to know wtf project 9 level arcana is. for the other - still some crud that could do with taking out etc.
15:41 asciilifeform it's got binaries
15:41 mircea_popescu fine apprentice job altogether.
15:41 asciilifeform so not v-able.
15:41 asciilifeform at least not in the whole.
15:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform a) which and b) why would binary be un-v-able i dun get it ?
15:41 mircea_popescu i could keep blockchain a
15:42 asciilifeform bitmaps.
15:42 mircea_popescu s a v item
15:42 asciilifeform gnudiff doesn't generate patches for bins.
15:42 asciilifeform so none of the extant vtrons are able to eat them.
15:42 mircea_popescu so ? translate them to chars like phf did for lisp.
15:42 asciilifeform yeah but this is not done in any extant vtron.
15:42 asciilifeform and it would result in gargantuan patches.
15:42 mircea_popescu as i said - still some crud that could do with taking out etc.
15:42 mircea_popescu nothing HARD tho.
15:43 asciilifeform i don't consider a project v-able unless it is 100% ascii text.
15:43 mircea_popescu everything is 100% ascii text. notwithstanding the damage iconoclasts of your tribe try to do to alphabet.,
15:43 mircea_popescu oops i mean, iconophiles.
15:43 asciilifeform convertible-to: yes
15:43 asciilifeform ~is~ : no.
15:43 mircea_popescu mno.
15:43 asciilifeform hex dump != source.
15:44 mircea_popescu us farmland is not "covertible" to cussack range.
15:44 mircea_popescu it IS cussack range temporarily converted to shitplain.
15:45 asciilifeform one of the few useful concepts we got from rms was 'source == form-preferable-for-modification'
15:47 mircea_popescu "preferable" doesn't mean anything. also bitmaps should be svg'd.
15:48 asciilifeform svg is liquishit
15:48 mircea_popescu PROPER svg'd.
15:48 asciilifeform dun exist.
15:48 mircea_popescu so make it.
15:48 asciilifeform there's 10,000 man-years of undone pyramid.
15:48 mircea_popescu sure.
15:51 mircea_popescu 110408 total says wc -l. holy shit 100k loc omfg wtf bbq.
15:52 mircea_popescu anyway. most of the shit should be cut out with irons, there's room for maybe 2k lines there in like 3 files once one's done shaving the hairball.
15:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how come all yer php has winblowz line endings ?
15:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: also, what 'allow from' ought to be used in the .htaccess in your wp-includes/js dir ?
16:07 asciilifeform also phf mircea_popescu there are remaining trilemaisms in there
16:07 asciilifeform grep -i trilema
16:07 asciilifeform (easy to fix)
16:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform whatever ips you use to admin it.
16:10 asciilifeform ahok
16:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform possibly because original development by automattic was done on windoze ? nfi.
16:11 asciilifeform lel: '// special handle for idiots:'
16:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the thing is damned flexible.
16:12 * asciilifeform about to test-fire mircea_popescu's thing
~ 46 minutes ~
16:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform does it wurk ?
16:59 asciilifeform not yet
16:59 asciilifeform fighting with db
~ 24 minutes ~
17:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wordpress barfs MOUNTAINS of 'deprecated: xxxxxxxxxx'
17:24 asciilifeform php crapolade.
17:25 mircea_popescu yup.
17:25 asciilifeform it fills MOST OF THE SCREEN
17:25 mircea_popescu i've been ignoring it ever since accidentally got upgraded.
17:25 asciilifeform unusable unless can be disabled.
17:25 asciilifeform holy fuck, ho w???
17:25 mircea_popescu well yes.
17:26 mircea_popescu there's a setting in php.ini, "shut the fuck up".
17:26 * mircea_popescu is hazy on the details.
17:26 mircea_popescu iirc this was in log tho, one second.
17:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-22#1350358
17:27 a111 Logged on 2015-12-22 14:29 mircea_popescu replaces E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE & ~E_DEPRECATED & ~E_STRICT that apparently GETS IGNORED ANYWAY with E_ERROR and fu.
17:27 mircea_popescu here we go.
17:28 mircea_popescu you want error_reporting=E_ERROR
17:28 asciilifeform where?
17:28 mircea_popescu php.ini
17:32 mircea_popescu in other lulz, http://67.media.tumblr.com/37905f5f3ad030995ecd4893d1589546/tumblr_nrc05kjNv61uy0bt6o1_500.gif << linked mostly for the amusing circumstance where the penis resembles a lengthy stick with a ballsac-bow at middle, and it's unclear to which of the two it's actually attached. such social commentary.
17:32 mircea_popescu "is the man fucking himself on the stick portruding from the woman's butt ? or is he contraiwise, impelling an attached probiscus into her hole ?"
17:33 asciilifeform hah i thought it was in a piano
17:33 asciilifeform but it is toilet and sink.
17:34 mircea_popescu lol
17:34 mircea_popescu the sturgeon eater, concerts on piano.
17:34 mircea_popescu the beans eater, concerts on ... organ.
17:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the php thing worked, ty.
17:42 asciilifeform or hm, nope.
17:42 asciilifeform i still get barf.
17:42 mircea_popescu you restarted teh apache ?
17:42 asciilifeform aha
17:43 mircea_popescu quote some barf ?
17:43 asciilifeform Strict Standards: Declaration of Walker_Comment::end_el() should be compatible with Walker::end_el(&$output) in /home/public/wp-includes/comment-template.php on line 1282
17:43 asciilifeform and a bunch moar.
17:43 asciilifeform INSTEAD OF SITE
17:43 mircea_popescu it's not set correctly somehow.
17:43 asciilifeform (in wp admin panel - in addition to, on top of screen.)
17:43 mircea_popescu is it reading some other config file or somesuch ?
17:43 asciilifeform nope.
17:43 asciilifeform definitely it.
17:43 mircea_popescu hm.
17:44 asciilifeform THIS is the kind of idiocy i was hoping to avoid.
17:44 asciilifeform the 2 hrs spent fighting with db, that is WASTED work, also
17:44 asciilifeform because i did it before, years ago, and remembered 0
17:44 mircea_popescu make a call to phpinfo() grep for "display_errors". should e Off Off.
17:44 mircea_popescu eh it's not wasted, simmer down. we fix it okay ?
17:45 asciilifeform 'display_errors => STDOUT => STDOUT'
17:45 mircea_popescu also
17:45 mircea_popescu error_append_string no value no value
17:45 mircea_popescu error_log /dev/null /dev/null
17:45 mircea_popescu error_prepend_string no value no value
17:45 mircea_popescu well so fix it!
17:46 asciilifeform fixed
17:46 asciilifeform i still get the strict_standards bullshit
17:46 mircea_popescu o.o nfi.
17:47 asciilifeform not only that,
17:47 asciilifeform but the site NEVER DISPLAYS
17:47 asciilifeform the control panel - does. site - no.
17:47 mircea_popescu did you get a theme ?
17:47 asciilifeform nor any page thereof.
17:47 asciilifeform no?
17:47 asciilifeform i thought mircea_popescu's tarball was complete ?
17:47 mircea_popescu that's what i said @phf. you'll need a theme.
17:48 asciilifeform oh forfuckssake.
17:48 phf hehehe
17:48 mircea_popescu well wtf you're gonna make a blog with my face on it ?!@
17:48 asciilifeform lel
17:48 asciilifeform if i find out how to vanish the idiot barf, i can think about theme
17:48 mircea_popescu gimem a minute here, this is a little odd.
17:49 mircea_popescu but i have spun up half the php army, so something better come of it.
17:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform apparently this is not possible, to be in a situation where the right php.ini contains a display_errors off switch and yet the page barfs warnings.
17:53 asciilifeform for fucks sake.
17:53 mircea_popescu what php version you got thar ?
17:54 asciilifeform 5.6.23
17:55 asciilifeform soo apparently 'error_reporting = 0' works.
17:56 mircea_popescu aha.
17:56 asciilifeform but silences ALL msgs.
17:56 asciilifeform and apparently now i have to write a motherfucking theme ?!
17:56 mircea_popescu well, alternatively download one :D
17:56 asciilifeform 0 published good anything.
17:56 asciilifeform as usual.
17:56 phf ok, i got it going http://107.170.141.103 (i'll shuffle it elsewhere so don't bookmark it or nothing)
17:57 mircea_popescu $google wordpress themes
17:57 deedbot https://wordpress.org/themes/ << Featured — Free WordPress Themes | http://www.themecircle.net/ << • Wordpress Themes - Best WordPress Themes for 2016 | http://themeforest.net/category/wordpress << WordPress Themes from ThemeForest
17:57 asciilifeform GOOD
17:57 asciilifeform anythings.
17:57 mircea_popescu lol.
17:57 asciilifeform they all have half a meg of css etc.
17:57 mircea_popescu oh.
17:57 asciilifeform incl the crap on my 1st site
17:57 mircea_popescu you can prolly reuse THAT theme acvtuall.
17:57 asciilifeform it is horrid
17:58 asciilifeform i have to massage every single graphic to avoid spilling over
17:58 mircea_popescu well yes, but you're currently using it.
17:58 mircea_popescu uh. ouch.
17:58 asciilifeform yes, using, it, because never found any improved
17:58 asciilifeform nor have any idea how to perma-fix this idiocy
17:58 mircea_popescu oh btw, this auto-resizes images. i just upload whatever and it gives me 560xblabla fit for the page.
17:58 asciilifeform and what about when viewed on a 4000x6000 display ?
17:58 asciilifeform also 560px?
17:59 mircea_popescu hey, what can i tell you!
17:59 asciilifeform none of this shit WORKS
18:00 mircea_popescu phf it has a pretty powerful antispam mechanism. it spits on people who try to send pingbacks from other ips than the blog in question ; it quarantines people who try to add posts with links to anything other than your own blog ; and it auto-spams people it recognizes on the basis of the already marked as spam.
18:00 mircea_popescu which is why originally you'll get some spam quarantined, but after a while it goes away. i see ~1-2 pieces / week atm.
18:00 mircea_popescu but to get this benefit, mark spam as spam rather than delete it.
18:00 mircea_popescu that's about all.
18:00 phf kk
18:00 phf this is smooth
18:00 * phf has never seen wordpress
18:00 mircea_popescu old wordpress was pretty cool.
18:02 asciilifeform holy SHIT a theme called 'simple skeleton' is 400+KB.
18:02 asciilifeform nor does wordpress.org's directory let you sort by weight.
18:03 asciilifeform mega-unsurprise.
18:05 phf asciilifeform: http://107.170.141.103/?p=7
18:07 asciilifeform phf: i have that one, turns out, on old disk
18:07 asciilifeform but it lacks essentials, e.g., search box
18:07 asciilifeform this has been a VERY depressing exercise.
18:08 asciilifeform not even because bit rot;
18:08 asciilifeform but because the LAST time i did this, i had ~0 standards and didn't give a fuck
18:08 asciilifeform about ~anything.
18:09 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> but it lacks essentials, e.g., search box << not an essential, jsut do qntra style archive page
18:10 phf asciilifeform: it's a widget you need to enable in settings
18:10 phf witness http://107.170.141.103/?s=wp-content
18:14 asciilifeform where do the themes even go
18:14 phf toplevel
18:14 asciilifeform and with what chmod
18:14 phf wp-content goes into same folder as wp-content, wp-includes
18:15 phf same as your apache www-data
18:15 asciilifeform chmod
18:15 asciilifeform not chown
18:16 phf well, so far i have everything as rw r r, but i suspect to edit theme you'll need to either chown to apache's user, or chown to group and add rw rw r
18:18 phf pretty sure everything except wp-content/uploads can stay readonly
18:18 asciilifeform i don't even HAVE a wp-content
18:18 phf asciilifeform: i linked it for you
18:18 phf http://107.170.141.103/?p=7
18:18 phf you gotta engage with my blarg brah
18:19 phf i'm looking for those massive impressions
18:19 asciilifeform lel ty
18:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally, you can make theme as css light as you wish. heck, make it pure html barf. or for that matter, plaintext.
18:21 mircea_popescu also, trilema doesn't have search box either. wtf search box.
18:21 asciilifeform 'strip away the marble until statue is left'
18:21 asciilifeform so easy!111
18:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally, merely formulating those standards precisely would be useful. why not.
18:24 mircea_popescu you could put it in a blog post.
18:24 mircea_popescu seeing how you'll have to come up with something EACH DAY, soon enough the broken state of the world becomes a revelry.
18:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how to set upload dir path ?
18:25 asciilifeform doesn't seem to exist in the config
18:25 asciilifeform i created the default, but all uploads silently fail
18:26 asciilifeform (all failures will be silent, considering that i had to destroy the error printer)
18:26 phf asciilifeform: wp-admin/options-misc.php
18:26 asciilifeform i created the dir
18:26 asciilifeform NOTHING happens
18:26 asciilifeform it is writable.
18:27 phf well, you want to go to wp-admin/media-new.php, try and upload something, see if it lands in the dir?
18:27 asciilifeform it does not.
18:27 mircea_popescu phf can you upload an item ?
18:28 phf yeah, http://107.170.141.103/?p=7 has a media uploaded file
18:28 phf it's like none of you read my blog!
18:28 mircea_popescu (incidentally, this, at least on my setup, very quick and easy "host this file" basis)
18:28 mircea_popescu phf word.
18:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it needs structure, iirc it is something like /wp-content/uploads/2016/07/x
18:29 mircea_popescu so make that whole path and try again
18:29 asciilifeform it is supposed to mkdir'em
18:29 mircea_popescu it is yes.
18:29 phf fwiw i only created uploads, and it made the structure on its own, after i fixed permissions
18:29 asciilifeform what were your perms phf ?
18:30 mircea_popescu 777!
18:30 mircea_popescu luckiest perms there are.
18:30 phf drwxrwxr-x 3 root www-data 4.0K Jul 3 17:59 uploads/
18:30 mircea_popescu close enough lol
18:30 phf oh yeah, pretty much
18:30 asciilifeform worx, ty
18:31 mircea_popescu phf hey, you gotta fix the antispam bit, which prolly has a fixed path in it or something ? currently not letting me comment.
18:31 phf kk
18:32 mircea_popescu ahhh i know what it is.
18:32 mircea_popescu one second ima give you the fix. theme needs some salt for comment form to work.
18:33 mircea_popescu phf http://trilema.com/2009/trilema-anti-spam/ << see the part going "si respectiv in comments.php a temei," aka "in the comments.php file in your theme"
18:34 asciilifeform soooo turns out none of the current wp themes work with this wp.
18:34 asciilifeform only phf's.
18:34 asciilifeform blank screen
18:35 phf of course, current version is something like 4.8, mp's version is 2.7, 2009 vintage
18:35 mircea_popescu aha.
18:35 asciilifeform and of course not debuggable
18:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is a blessing, of course. you want 2015 theme like you want karachi street whore.
18:36 asciilifeform i want the default theme like i want to hand-html.
18:37 mircea_popescu next time that guy comes in that was trying to fix qntra, i guess we get him to make you a special wp 2.7 theme to spec ?
18:37 mircea_popescu my treat.
18:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is quite unclear to me what part of the rewrite rule is necessary for the spamatron
18:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform which rewrite rule you mean ?
18:37 asciilifeform aha
18:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform if you want to debug, you can just make a 2nd install. can share db, even, it has this table-prefix scheme baked in. that one you can restrict to yourself and use for hacking upon.
18:39 asciilifeform ugh
18:39 mircea_popescu phf you'll also need a favicon.ico that's not a T lol
18:39 phf and a picture of myself on a camel
18:40 mircea_popescu well, at least barking at a camel's feet.
18:40 mircea_popescu phf 2008 vintage i'm pretty certain.
18:41 asciilifeform my comment thing dun work, aha.
18:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform trhe idea is you want either both of the chunks linked or neither. currently you have only the top one (in wp-comments-post.php ) but not hte bottom one (in /wp-content/theme/comments.php )
18:43 asciilifeform i dun get it, do i need the rewrites? and if so, which? what does 'RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} .t-1813 [OR]' ~do~ ?
18:43 mircea_popescu uh lemme see wtf is this
18:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform where is this ?!
18:44 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2009/trilema-anti-spam/#selection-57.1-57.41
18:45 mircea_popescu ah, can safely ignore that part.
18:45 asciilifeform well i get a blank page when commenting.
18:45 asciilifeform and 0 comments.
18:45 asciilifeform literally a 0 byte page.
18:46 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2009/trilema-anti-spam/#selection-81.0-109.41 < section of interest.
↖
18:47 asciilifeform i don't even HAVE a comments.php
18:48 mircea_popescu it's in ~your theme~. do you have one ? no ? WELL THEN!
18:48 asciilifeform ah that
18:48 phf asciilifeform: wp-content/themes/default/comments.php
18:48 asciilifeform holy shit, i have to manually massage every theme?!
18:48 asciilifeform to make commenting even WORK
18:49 mircea_popescu you could alternatively take the thing out of wp-comments-post.php ; all it does is it prevents serious spam operations from working
18:49 asciilifeform and live with spam ?
18:49 mircea_popescu way these work is, they collect form data once with spider, come back and spam it for years afterwards.
18:49 mircea_popescu it won't likely degrade the scheme enough for you to notice.
18:50 mircea_popescu ie, this specific bit is a load control measure more than actually spam-killing per se.
18:50 asciilifeform so what should be taken out then ?
18:50 asciilifeform $suffix .......... null; ?
18:50 mircea_popescu $suffix = substr(md5(date('Y-m-d')."salt.no,rly.salt."),0,6); to become $suffix = "";
18:51 asciilifeform i still get a 0 byte page when commenting.
18:51 mircea_popescu of course. as you've no theme. neh ?
18:52 asciilifeform i HAVE a theme
18:52 asciilifeform the default.
18:52 asciilifeform that i got from phf.
18:52 mircea_popescu ah.
18:52 asciilifeform well, one of his 2
18:52 asciilifeform http://www.asciilifeform.com
18:52 asciilifeform (dns existed for eons, and there was an old and bitrotten thing there which is no moar)
18:53 mircea_popescu well, when this engages what it does is, "Looks like you tried to comment off a stale page. Reload the article, count to three and try again."
18:53 asciilifeform i get 0 anything
18:53 asciilifeform just empty.
18:53 asciilifeform no messages.
18:54 phf mircea_popescu: i think the anti-spam instructions are missing bit for comment_post_time
18:55 mircea_popescu tsk, i think you';re right phf!
18:55 mircea_popescu get the two hashes to line up, ima make a comment on article with update. it has been 7 years huh.
18:57 mircea_popescu <input type="hidden" name="comment_post_time" value="<?php echo time(),"-",$_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']; ?>" /></p>
18:58 asciilifeform ??
18:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform he crafitily discovered there's a missing bit.
18:58 phf ok comments work
18:59 mircea_popescu so they do!
18:59 mircea_popescu http://107.170.141.103/?p=7&cpage=1#comment-3 :D
19:00 mircea_popescu phf also paginated comments are fucking stupid, take that shit out
19:00 asciilifeform anybody gonna say where this piece goes ?
19:01 phf one sec
19:01 shinohai responsive
19:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the theme, same file, comments.php. part of the comment form, grep for "comment_post_ID" and put it under
19:04 asciilifeform so i can't actually use virginal themes ??
19:05 mircea_popescu it's flood killer / antibot measure, otherwise you can actually get destroyed by botnet relaying the same comment over and over 100times/s.
19:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not exactly, no. gotta fit them in trilema socket.
19:07 asciilifeform i found the barfatron:
19:07 asciilifeform wp-comments-post.php: ln 54
19:07 mircea_popescu re "paginated comments" : http://trilema.com/2011/concurs-de-injurat-blogari-editia-a-ii-a/ ~700, loads just fine.
19:07 mircea_popescu i wanna see the blog that gets more.
19:07 asciilifeform SELECT comment_ID FROM tril_comments .....
19:07 asciilifeform what to do with that thing
19:07 phf mircea_popescu: i think that's just some default setting
19:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform heh. should be SELECT comment_ID FROM $wpdb->comments
19:11 mircea_popescu oh no, i mean. should be :
19:11 mircea_popescu $myrows = $wpdb->get_var('SELECT comment_ID FROM '.$wpdb->prefix.'comments WHERE comment_author_IP = "'.$_SERVER["REMOTE_ADDR"].'" and comment_approved = "spam";');
19:12 asciilifeform is the thing ~supposed~ to send all comments to the mod queue ?
19:12 asciilifeform because mine does.
19:13 asciilifeform or hm, odd:
19:13 asciilifeform main page shows 0 comments
19:13 asciilifeform admin panel offers comment for moderation
19:14 asciilifeform but clicking on post reveals already approved comment
19:14 asciilifeform whole thing is broken
19:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform at first, yeah.
19:15 mircea_popescu wait, what ?
19:15 asciilifeform what i said
19:15 asciilifeform thing behaves inconsistently.
19:15 mircea_popescu i still can't send you a comment fwiw.
19:15 asciilifeform you cna
19:15 asciilifeform can
19:16 asciilifeform but it only displays if you click on the post
19:16 mircea_popescu ah look, it autapproved.
19:16 mircea_popescu now let's try some spam.\
19:16 asciilifeform it doesn't actually work consistently
19:16 asciilifeform the admin panel offers me to mod comments
19:17 asciilifeform the overview root page shows 0 comments
19:17 asciilifeform clicking on post shows all attempted comments.
19:17 asciilifeform this thing is b0rk3d.
19:17 mircea_popescu nope, spam comment didn't make it through.
19:17 mircea_popescu dja see it ?
19:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope.
19:18 mircea_popescu cool then.
19:18 asciilifeform or huh i see it in spam queue.
19:18 asciilifeform where it belongs.
19:18 mircea_popescu should be in comments if you click on "Spam" aha.
19:18 mircea_popescu so there.
19:19 phf asciilifeform: i also made a patch, but sounds like you don't need it anymore http://107.170.141.103/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/wp-comments.diff
↖
19:19 mircea_popescu nice job phf!
19:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: all comments other than spam show up in 'pending' in mine.
19:20 asciilifeform and show as summing to 0 in root page.
19:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there may be some issues with theme display for logged in admin.
19:20 asciilifeform nononon
19:20 asciilifeform NOT LOGGED IN
19:20 mircea_popescu then hm. i only see my test comment myslef
19:21 asciilifeform http://www.asciilifeform.com shows 0 comments.
19:21 mircea_popescu and also do me a favour and delete my spam comment ; now it doesn't let me comment anymoar :)
19:21 asciilifeform but if you click, they appear.
19:21 asciilifeform i'ma delete whole thhing prolly
19:21 asciilifeform it is ~useless
19:21 mircea_popescu click where ?
19:21 asciilifeform on the oly post
19:21 asciilifeform *only
19:22 mircea_popescu https://archive.is/2lD84 << they do not ?
19:22 asciilifeform dafuq
19:22 mircea_popescu i dunno man, your blog :D
19:22 mircea_popescu WORX ON MY SYSTEMZ
19:22 asciilifeform http://www.asciilifeform.com/?p=1&cpage=1#comment-3 << ?
19:22 asciilifeform what do you get
19:23 mircea_popescu my test comment.
19:23 mircea_popescu no other comments on page.
19:23 asciilifeform notice it even prints 'no comments'
19:23 shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo Bundy ranch for sale http://listings.listhub.net/pages/MREANV/1116509
19:23 gribble The operation succeeded.
19:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno ; seems to me like a theme issue. this isn't phf's theme, actually, is it ?
19:25 asciilifeform it is one of the 2 themes in his tarball
19:25 mircea_popescu well, it is evidently the broken one.
19:26 asciilifeform whole thing apparetly needs 1,001 hand-coded exceptions from sop in order to work.
19:26 asciilifeform none of which i am equipped to actually understand.
19:27 mircea_popescu shut up gentoo boy! unlike that pos, this actually works for a decade once settled down. and the settling down is a few hours not a few weeks.
19:27 mircea_popescu arguably more useful, also.
19:27 asciilifeform my other thing also works
19:27 asciilifeform and similarly
19:27 asciilifeform and is precisely what i was trying to avoid
19:27 asciilifeform when making 2nd www.
19:28 asciilifeform if i wanted massive 7yo pile of hand-tuned shit, i would just copy old site
19:28 mircea_popescu yeah vhell! gl avoiding computing in this life.
19:28 mircea_popescu maybe our children. if we had any.
19:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how does the comments ending in displayed AND at the same time in 'pending' have anything to do with my theme ?
19:33 mircea_popescu there;'s no "displayed" though. there's All | Pending (4) | Approved | Spam (15,875)
19:34 asciilifeform hm they only display from the ip of the poster dont they.
19:35 asciilifeform so that answers my q
19:35 asciilifeform all comments seem to get queued
19:35 asciilifeform why ?
19:36 mircea_popescu well no, the spam one didn't get queued.
19:36 mircea_popescu but yes, dubious comments get queued, so you can approve them or not. once you approve some, the dubiousness evaluator gets better.
19:37 mircea_popescu you rarely have to approve the same person twice.
19:37 mircea_popescu gotta appreciate, you just made this, so everyone's yet a stranger.
19:39 mircea_popescu anyway, fi on trilema just now, i had to approve that Anonimescu;s fellow first comment ; as he never was seen before. his subsequent ones, i didn't need to touch.
19:40 mircea_popescu you can prolly fiddle with the knobs to make this work more to your liking, but in my experience it's ~perfect.
19:41 phf mircea_popescu: what's the point of wp-includes/js/.htaccess?
19:42 asciilifeform this thing is catastrophically broken
19:42 asciilifeform the spam counter shows '1'
19:42 asciilifeform but it isn't clickable
19:42 asciilifeform and i cannot zero it
19:46 mircea_popescu phf prolly to limit access to javascript ?
19:47 mircea_popescu seems more like a passive "bury this shit" measure than anything else. who's to trust js.
19:47 mircea_popescu anyway, ill be off to partay, tty darlings laters.
19:47 asciilifeform this shit dun work.
19:50 asciilifeform phf: does yours also show a non-zeroable spam counter ?
19:50 phf let me try it out
19:50 phf i'm fixing some warnings
19:51 phf i'm hacking on PHP with VIM, i feel so deliciously white trash
19:55 phf asciilifeform: you mind commenting on http://107.170.141.103/2016/wp-content-for-a/ for me to try it out
19:56 asciilifeform posted
19:56 asciilifeform 'awaiting mod'
19:56 phf ok i see it
19:57 phf i marked it as spam
19:57 phf it is now in spam
19:57 asciilifeform now reload panel
19:57 asciilifeform and see if spam is clickable
19:57 asciilifeform mine isn't.
19:57 asciilifeform i have an eternal spam.
19:57 phf like spam link?
19:57 phf Spam (1) thing in that top bar?
19:57 asciilifeform aha that one
19:57 asciilifeform not clickable in my panel.
19:57 asciilifeform even though it is a 1.
19:57 phf it's clickable
19:58 asciilifeform oh huh
19:58 asciilifeform the 1 is clickable
↖
19:58 asciilifeform the 'spam' is not
19:58 asciilifeform unlike in my actual blog
19:58 asciilifeform motherfuckers.
19:58 phf that is ~odd~
19:59 phf in fact i could send it to spam, and then approve and it appears where it's supposed to be
19:59 asciilifeform well at least thing is ~usable now.
19:59 asciilifeform with pig-ugly theme.
20:10 asciilifeform lel the domain suddenly stopped resolving.
20:11 asciilifeform phf: are you able to load ?
20:11 phf yes
20:11 phf can still see front page
20:11 asciilifeform hm
20:11 asciilifeform worx
20:11 asciilifeform now
~ 1 hours 25 minutes ~
21:37 phf mircea_popescu: it seems like you have some totally custom avatar logic on trilema? do you have patches for that?
~ 30 minutes ~
22:07 mircea_popescu phf there's two main points of the split between mp-wp and automattic-wp. one is that i shot the akismet idiocy in the head (mp-wp antispam system works way the fuck better, and doesn't you know, run arbitrary code from the automattic equivalent of disqus, shambling abominable horror of untold proportions).
↖
22:08 mircea_popescu the other is that instead of calling gravatar, it just puts out avatar.png from commenter's webpage.
22:08 mircea_popescu because gravatar thing is utter bullshit also. but i'm not terribly convinced this scheme's so great either.
22:08 asciilifeform fwiw my old site uses the ancient evils.
↖
22:08 asciilifeform mostly works.
22:08 mircea_popescu yawell.
22:09 phf so it's <?php echo $comment_author_url; ?>/avatar.png or you go to top level domain?
22:09 mircea_popescu lemme look.
22:10 mircea_popescu phf o it parses the whole thing check this crazy out
22:11 mircea_popescu $url_parsed = parse_url($comment->comment_author_url);
22:11 mircea_popescu $url = "http://".$url_parsed["host"].$url_parsed["path"];
22:11 mircea_popescu if ($comment->user_id==1) echo "<img alt='",$comment->comment_author,"`s avatar' src='http://trilema.com/avatar.png' class='avatar avatar-32 photo' height='32' width='32' />"; else if ($url_parsed["host"].$url_parsed["path"] > "") echo "<img alt='",$comment->comment_author,"`s avatar' src='",str_replace("//avatar.png","/avatar.png",$url."/avatar.png' class='avatar avatar-32 photo' height='32' width='32' />"); else echo "<im
22:11 mircea_popescu g alt='",$comment->comment_author,"`s avatar' src='",$comment->comment_author_url,"http://trilema.com/default_avatar.png' class='avatar avatar-32 photo' height='32' width='32' />";
22:11 mircea_popescu at the rate we're going, #trilema is going to end up in google for php queries huh.
22:12 deedbot [Qntra] Public Transit Bugged For Audio In US - http://qntra.net/2016/07/public-transit-bugged-for-audio-in-us/
22:12 phf we're going to start getting random people with nonexistent english comprehension going "kind sir or madam please help wordpress plugin"
22:14 asciilifeform http://qntra.net/2016/07/public-transit-bugged-for-audio-in-us/#comment-63010
22:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1496637 << exactly the sort of theme "cleverness"
↖
22:17 a111 Logged on 2016-07-03 23:58 asciilifeform: the 1 is clickable
22:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-04#1496656 << your old site also has captcha for comments ; which has prevented me from commenting there for these many years.
↖
22:18 a111 Logged on 2016-07-04 02:08 asciilifeform: fwiw my old site uses the ancient evils.
22:18 phf mircea_popescu: which file was the above lifted from?
22:18 mircea_popescu i have nfi how you imagine making a monkey out of the reader's acceptable or anything.
22:19 mircea_popescu phf same comments.php in my theme ; but in general wherever the theme outputs comments
22:20 ben_vulpes excellent scrollback
22:20 ben_vulpes toppest of kek
22:20 mircea_popescu lol
22:20 phf today on trilema we're regressing!
22:20 ben_vulpes 'mircea_popescu and friends wordpressinate with mixed results'
22:21 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes "what started as a channel dedicated to lisp and assorted snobbery totally devolved into apache and php club"
22:23 ben_vulpes #trilema goes slummin
↖
22:24 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2016/07/public-transit-bugged-for-audio-in-us/#comment-63011
22:24 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: have you considered an org mode -> html export?
↖
22:27 mircea_popescu and in other boobs, http://66.media.tumblr.com/f6ffd92ab7b75d2e2b325e7482edc21d/tumblr_nrx0wpcYNT1txs21yo3_500.gif
22:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform o btw, got a gpgram for me ?
~ 37 minutes ~
23:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aaaalmost. tomorrow when i wake.
23:19 deedbot [Qntra] Latest Fork Noise Arrives On Schedule - http://qntra.net/2016/07/latest-fork-noise-arrives-on-schedule/
↖
23:20 BingoBoingo ^ USG loves their 1980's branding tricks
23:20 asciilifeform blew most of today on these atrocities.
23:20 mircea_popescu works!
23:20 mircea_popescu lol nice bb
23:21 oglafbot http://oglaf.com/nearly/
23:21 BingoBoingo ty
23:22 mircea_popescu too much failed in one paragraph tho. "their beloved if irrelevant" ?
23:23 BingoBoingo aha
23:25 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i got a thing from the realtor with bigger, thicker house, in what looks like perfect condition, for ~half the price of the ruin. picture in what kind of kandahar it must be
23:25 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: fxd to "stillborn"
23:25 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Very cool!
23:30 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-04#1496689 <<< I liek BingoBoingo
23:30 a111 Logged on 2016-07-04 03:19 deedbot: [Qntra] Latest Fork Noise Arrives On Schedule - http://qntra.net/2016/07/latest-fork-noise-arrives-on-schedule/
23:31 BingoBoingo ty
23:41 BingoBoingo 100% upvoted! https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4r5ax7/another_attempt_to_socially_engineer_a_fork/
23:47 mircea_popescu scam
23:49 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-04#1496670 << theme doesn't work in control panel
23:49 a111 Logged on 2016-07-04 02:17 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-03#1496637 << exactly the sort of theme "cleverness"
23:49 mircea_popescu hm
23:50 mircea_popescu it must because my whole spam thing is clickable.
23:51 asciilifeform my 2.8.6 was also.
23:51 asciilifeform but the version mircea_popescu posted only has the digit clickable.
23:51 asciilifeform i have nfi.
23:51 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-04#1496672 << it suxx mightily
23:51 a111 Logged on 2016-07-04 02:18 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-04#1496656 << your old site also has captcha for comments ; which has prevented me from commenting there for these many years.
23:51 asciilifeform but so does the whole shebang.
23:51 asciilifeform wordpress is loathesome.
23:52 mircea_popescu trilema is quite pleasant, on all scores.
23:52 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-04#1496685 << no. because it is 1 step away from hand-churned html.
23:52 a111 Logged on 2016-07-04 02:24 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: have you considered an org mode -> html export?
23:52 asciilifeform it is not physically impossible to make decent thing where one can post via www browser.
23:52 asciilifeform but no one has done it.
23:54 mircea_popescu trilema! omaygerd.
23:54 mircea_popescu you're such a hater you know.
23:56 asciilifeform wc -l wp-mp/**
23:56 asciilifeform ...
23:56 asciilifeform 7028 total
23:57 asciilifeform that's...
23:57 asciilifeform 1/7th of a 'Doom'
23:57 mircea_popescu nobody spetn as much time playing doom as it'd take to read trilema.
23:57 * asciilifeform might have.
23:59 mircea_popescu no way you read that whole thing ?!
23:59 asciilifeform definitely not all the ro, yet.
23:59 asciilifeform pretty sure i got all the engl
23:59 mircea_popescu i was thinking
23:59 mircea_popescu well yeah but the ro is 5 years and the engl 2.
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