Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-05-07 | 2016-05-09 → ↓
00:02 asciilifeform http://www.crypto.com/papers/export.txt << by same author, another vintage lol, re the idiocy of ruleoflaw
00:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform lulzy. "oh we can't brute force because reasons"
00:07 asciilifeform aha!
00:08 asciilifeform the 'acres of crays', already quite famous then - space heaters!1111
00:08 mircea_popescu heh
00:10 mircea_popescu phf> but you then run into the issue is that the conflict might be introduced up the graph chain << fuck, waht !?
00:10 mircea_popescu this can't be right.
00:11 mircea_popescu phf> the graph for that is X->Y->Z, X->Z << this is incorrect. the graph for that is "X->Y->Z". "X->Z" is not correct because Z requires b 3 and x does not provide b3.
↖
00:16 mod6 shinohai: this is the rebased funk privkey patch http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/caa33111-6432-4488-be6a-33ec7bdb45c6/?raw=true
00:16 mod6 if you grab this, and it didn't get munged, you should end up with this hash: 6eaa543333746c11069ff9ca85aaa6330419d0be95de21fafcdbd500e1bc6df2ef10c2dc1d104b15cb50da7b362eac6bf1ddf3830329367b31c1e59e1dc3c6a9
00:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> 'no conflict' is fuzzy and introduces potential of subtle breakage << i agree with this view, for the reasons stated. same hash has to be the criterion.
00:17 mod6 further, use `v' and ensure that your patches dir is up to date with the mirror. if you're not sure, just mv your patches dir to like 'patches.old' and then use 'init' to get the latest.
00:18 mod6 then copy the funk vpatch into patches dir
00:18 asciilifeform if hash-in mismatches - patch MUST fail. ditto if hash-out does.
00:18 mod6 then see if you can press it successfully: `./v.pl p v v054-wFunk asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.vpatch`
00:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i re-read what he's saying, i'm not even sure we actually grasp what the man is trying to say.
00:18 asciilifeform and for ENTIRE file set.
00:18 mircea_popescu or at least i can't seem to reorder it into something that seems reasonable.
00:19 mod6 asciilifeform: are you talking to me?
00:19 mircea_popescu mod6 nah we're wringing over earlier graph discussion
00:19 mod6 im talking about the hash of the vpatch file itself.
00:19 asciilifeform mod6: mircea_popescu , re phf's observation
00:19 mod6 oah ok
00:19 mod6 im pretty well convinced that what I have constructed works fine.
00:20 asciilifeform my understanding was that he was making use of loose coupling somehow
00:20 asciilifeform where there was not strict all-must-match.
00:20 mircea_popescu i got as far ; but i don't see where or how, and his example is broken
00:21 asciilifeform perhaps he might supply another when he wakes up.
00:21 mod6 shinohai: dangit. i curl'd that wotpaste and i got a different hash output
00:22 mod6 it munged someting
00:22 deedbot [Trilema] Булучеало, Buluk-Ayres - http://trilema.com/2016/%d0%91%d1%83%d0%bb%d1%83%d1%87%d0%b5%d0%b0%d0%bb%d0%be-buluk-ayres/
00:22 mod6 curl -s "http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/caa33111-6432-4488-be6a-33ec7bdb45c6/?raw=true" | sha512sum
00:22 mod6 72780acdf0df0ed1510f3d5341c7191be3a4b6809be397d706aaf9123b1889a715bfc47511cf0b1800dbcffa6bcbcc26823cbfaea46f38993f94584f7a7ddeb1 -
00:23 mircea_popescu $google Булучеало
00:23 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
00:23 mircea_popescu win.
00:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mega-lol re above, given as i saw an 'official' ar diplomatic tango demo today!
00:23 mircea_popescu wait, you READ IT ALREADY ?!
00:23 asciilifeform aha.
00:23 mircea_popescu o.O
00:23 asciilifeform a few min ago.
00:23 * asciilifeform has own automata
00:23 * mircea_popescu pictures alf in NOC with trilema rss scrolling on alrge screen
00:24 asciilifeform sorta aha
00:24 mircea_popescu back in ro glory days there were a few people in various ministries doing just that
00:24 mircea_popescu hated me for it too.
00:25 asciilifeform l0l!!
00:26 mod6 Oh, and a cat! Which, in absolute fairness, was by far the most intelligent local present. << haha
00:26 mircea_popescu cat was pretty laid back.
00:37 mod6 ben_vulpes: is there a way to get around this?
00:37 mod6 curl -s "http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/caa33111-6432-4488-be6a-33ec7bdb45c6/?raw=true" | xxd | grep "0d0a" | wc -l
00:37 mod6 103
00:46 mod6 shinohai: grab this one http://www.mod6.net/btcf/test/mod6_funken_prikey_tools.vpatch
↖
00:46 mod6 $ curl -s "http://www.mod6.net/btcf/test/mod6_funken_prikey_tools.vpatch" | sha512sum
00:46 mod6 6eaa543333746c11069ff9ca85aaa6330419d0be95de21fafcdbd500e1bc6df2ef10c2dc1d104b15cb50da7b362eac6bf1ddf3830329367b31c1e59e1dc3c6a9 -
~ 4 hours 15 minutes ~
05:01 ben_vulpes mod6: done
05:01 ben_vulpes browsers frequently pass newlines from forms as \r\n
05:03 ben_vulpes anyways, should you care to, you can now also `curl -L -F "pastebox=@foo.txt" wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com`
05:03 ben_vulpes produces the same hash as the submitted file
~ 20 minutes ~
05:24 ben_vulpes http://archive.is/637lm << unrelatedly, don't you want to stay at the cow cave? the akita house? perhaps the host of the kangaroo treehouse's beguiling pose will entice you into a rental. if none of those appeal, consider pug palace, cow boat, or the cottage cheese cottage
05:24 ben_vulpes me, i'm booking batcave hammocks asap
05:24 ben_vulpes that novelty penny looks DOPE
~ 3 hours 20 minutes ~
08:45 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-08#1464645 << pretty sure that's where there's a lot of confusion, even between what you're saying and what ascii is saying
08:45 a111 Logged on 2016-05-08 04:11 mircea_popescu: phf> the graph for that is X->Y->Z, X->Z << this is incorrect. the graph for that is "X->Y->Z". "X->Z" is not correct because Z requires b 3 and x does not provide b3.
08:45 phf in v's definition of antecedent, the only requirement is "share a single hash"
08:46 phf so the fact that Z requires b 3 is irrelevant, since Z also requires a 1
08:48 phf that's not my definition by the way, that's how the graph is constructed inside v.py (v99.py:143 get_ante)
08:56 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-08#1464690 <<< thx mod6
08:56 a111 Logged on 2016-05-08 04:46 mod6: shinohai: grab this one http://www.mod6.net/btcf/test/mod6_funken_prikey_tools.vpatch
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~
10:08 mircea_popescu phf prolly. let's delve.
10:13 mircea_popescu phf so basically you found a bug in mod6's perl implementation of v ?
10:13 phf mircea_popescu: i don't think that's a bug, that's more of a conceptual thing.
10:13 mircea_popescu how so ?
10:15 phf that's the behavior of the original v where the graph doesn't communicate any additional information beyond "shares a hash"
↖
10:15 mircea_popescu so ? this doesn't prove "not a bug"
10:16 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-08#1464711 << mno. it communicates 'you need this patch and its antecedents'
10:16 a111 Logged on 2016-05-08 14:15 phf: that's the behavior of the original v where the graph doesn't communicate any additional information beyond "shares a hash"
10:16 asciilifeform and yes, because they share a hash
10:16 asciilifeform what of it ?
10:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you talking about yours or mod6's ?
10:16 asciilifeform mine
10:16 mircea_popescu we were not talking about yours.
10:16 asciilifeform and his
10:17 asciilifeform well phf was , i think, speaking of the basic vtron conceptually
10:17 mircea_popescu i think mod6's might actually try to press on the basis of "has ONE antecedent"
10:17 asciilifeform hm
10:17 mircea_popescu he couldn't have had, since he gave examples.
10:17 * asciilifeform will have to actually read mod6's thing before commenting further
10:17 phf (i don't really know how mod6's vtron operates, only speaking of mine and asciilifeform's)
10:18 mircea_popescu uh. wait, which was the one in py ?
10:18 phf asciilifeform's
10:18 mircea_popescu right cuz mod made it in perl, nm.
10:18 asciilifeform aha
10:18 mircea_popescu i take it back. ok, so :
10:19 mircea_popescu get_ante returns all leaves required for a press.
10:20 asciilifeform well recall , my vtron was incomplete in the aspect where it assumed that any leaf was pressable per se
10:20 mircea_popescu aha.
10:21 asciilifeform this was clearly explained. then various folks tried to derive a means to auto sort leaves in some meaningful way
10:21 phf mircea_popescu: in the example that i gave, get_ante is the function that establishes graph edges
10:21 mircea_popescu yeah.
10:22 mircea_popescu phf the thing remains, it's risky to take tmsr prototypes and extract meaning as if they were definitive canonical implementations of concepts. they aren't, yet.
10:22 mircea_popescu and as more people get involved this will be our bane, because it's really fucking difficult to correctly mark the walls and the scaffolding.
10:23 asciilifeform my vtron was very much a battlefield wunderwaffen, adequate strictly for pressing a well-gardened trb tree that consisted 95% of asciilifeform
10:23 mircea_popescu irl fragile parts like windows get a paint X on them, but here no such luck.
10:23 asciilifeform i still use it
10:25 phf well, there's no issue with that graph presentation, because it produces correct press. it's just that graph is "meaningless" without the toposort. visualizing it doesn't answer any question beyond "this and that share a hash"
10:25 mircea_popescu back to the issue of substance. the idea is that whatever any current implementation may do, a situation where : 1) X takes A from 1 to 2 and B from 1 to 2 ; 2) Y takes A from 2 to 3 and B from 3 to 3 and 3) Z takes A from 2 to 4 and B from 3 to 4 should be represented as X->Y->Z only, and not as X->Y->Z, X->Z
10:25 asciilifeform the basic confusion comes from how we have two uncoupled things tied together with rope
10:25 mircea_popescu yeah, asciilifeform and i think it's time to specify that rope.
10:26 asciilifeform namely 'patchons', actual dependent gibblets, are grouped into patches
10:26 asciilifeform i suggested at one point, to uncouple them
10:26 mircea_popescu i was thinking yest, "the solution here prolly is to forbid X containing multi As".
10:26 shinohai The official tmsr roll 'o duct tape.
10:26 mircea_popescu iirc this was said back in the day, briefly.
10:26 phf right
10:26 asciilifeform i suggested this, iirc, last september
10:26 mircea_popescu somethinglikethat.
10:26 asciilifeform but it has serious down sides
10:27 mircea_popescu myeah.
10:27 mircea_popescu chief downside is that we'll need an ide/emacs skin\
10:27 asciilifeform it would permit nonviable chimeras, for instance
10:27 mircea_popescu topological sorting becomes expensive and slow and etc
10:27 asciilifeform suddenly the simplicity aspect would be lost.
10:27 asciilifeform aha.
10:28 mircea_popescu still, this is a problem in search of a good solution.
10:28 mircea_popescu and phf has a point in that it's not even a very well understood one.
10:28 asciilifeform i am not certain that we have a problem !
10:28 asciilifeform my v works when among gentlemen
10:28 mircea_popescu i mean socially. whether we have a technical problem or not is part of the problem.
10:29 phf i think the problem is "what does v graph supposed to communicate to the viewer"
10:29 mircea_popescu meanwhile in other campus news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/6459edb89a9633869c33c713fbbb7186/tumblr_nig959SxtB1u5ddqjo3_400.gif
10:29 phf and ~not~ anything related to a working press
10:29 asciilifeform for instance, and i warned of this from the beginning, v operators are trusted never to create cycles.
10:30 mircea_popescu phf "how did i end up with z and what's its connection to origin"
10:30 asciilifeform there is no handy technopill against cycle
10:30 phf mircea_popescu: right
10:30 mircea_popescu right. and in the example given, X->Z (or rather, Z > X) is not a connection to origin.
10:31 phf so there are two issues with the thinking down that line
10:31 phf one is that edge can indicate independent transitions vs all dependents
10:31 mircea_popescu define these terms ?
10:32 phf let's say you have x->y z->y. in the first case it means "i can press y on top of x" OR "i can press y on top of z"
10:32 mircea_popescu wait, what ?!
10:32 asciilifeform realize, v was something that i was specifically only able to conceive of because i am working with cultured folks who can be relied upon to not shit in the kitchen. operating vtron will always require a good measure of intelligence, wisdom, restraint...
10:32 mircea_popescu oh, something like "either y or z could be pressed on top of x" yeah ok
10:33 phf right
10:33 mircea_popescu right, keep to alphabet order as historical.
10:33 phf the second meaning is, and that one comes up since we have multiple files to a patch, in order to press x i need both y and z.
10:34 phf wait, i think i utterly confused the issue. one sec let me restate it
10:34 asciilifeform thing is, i realized a while back that a leaf depending on other leaves at all, is abuse of v
10:34 asciilifeform leaf must depend only on nonlenleaves.
10:34 mircea_popescu phf please.
10:34 asciilifeform nonleaves
10:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform understand, it's not just that "if we can't get v to be easily intuitive it won't see mass adoption". it's moreover that if v isn't reducible to crystal fucking clear, we fucked something up.
10:35 asciilifeform aha
10:35 asciilifeform and imho it is clear.
10:35 asciilifeform once we stop demanding that it sort leaves somehow
10:36 mircea_popescu i thought so too, but then again this guy's leet py script beat my bash hackery outta water, so let's hear him out.
10:37 phf mircea_popescu: X<-Z Y<-Z, that means that having press to X you can now press Z on top OR having pressed to X you can now press Z on top. alternatively it can mean, in order to press Z you need both X and Y pressed.
10:38 mircea_popescu in my mind, these two are not ambiguous, because correctly working graphaton would represent them respectively as
10:38 mircea_popescu Y Z Y Z
10:38 asciilifeform aha.
10:38 mircea_popescu \ / | |
10:38 mircea_popescu X X X
10:38 mircea_popescu first pair is first, 2nd pair is 2nd
10:39 phf ah, in which case you preserve the idea of "edge in means possible transition"
10:39 mircea_popescu or fuck, seems somehow Z is the antecedent of everything nao ?
10:40 mircea_popescu phf think of it like this : if letter comes earlier in alphabet, item it denotes comes earlier in time-entalpy.
10:40 mircea_popescu x may not know of z ; only z may know of x.
10:41 phf right, that's the basic principle
10:41 mircea_popescu well then don't say stuff like Z->Y.
10:41 mircea_popescu and don't say stuff like <- either. time goes ->
10:41 mircea_popescu darned jews infiltrating tmsr.
10:42 phf antecedent relationship goes backwards though. x<-y perhaps means y points at x as a parent without x's knowledge
10:43 mircea_popescu thinking about it, my enthalpy-based objections seem to come out of left field. somehow it seemed obvious to me that this property of "cone of knowledge" as per particle physics is part of v,
10:43 mircea_popescu but thinking about it nowhere was it said.
10:43 mircea_popescu phf if you use -> ambiguously nobody will be able to think about this, you least of all.
10:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what's the standard term of "enthalpy equivalent in turing machines" ? the shannon factor ?
10:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: today it is a unit, shannon, sh
10:46 asciilifeform nobody seems to use tho
10:46 mircea_popescu well what the fuck do they know.
10:48 mircea_popescu ah, no, sh is the equiv of entropy. "count of possible states".
10:48 mircea_popescu perhaps the difference not interesting here.
10:48 asciilifeform ah you wanted enthalpy , hm
10:48 asciilifeform nfi what that would be here
10:49 mircea_popescu ok, more practically speaking : the graphatron is a visualizer of individual patches event horizons. how about that.
10:50 mircea_popescu no need to mix 19th century understanding of qm in shorthand statistical form at all.
10:51 mircea_popescu (event horizon is the boundry past which phenomena can no further affect the observer)
10:51 asciilifeform the opposite?
10:51 mircea_popescu the opposite of a boundry ?
10:52 asciilifeform (if it dn affect the observer, he's not observing!)
10:52 mircea_popescu lolk.
10:52 asciilifeform it is the boundary where observer can no longer get sucked into the phenomenon .
10:52 mircea_popescu (event horizon is the boundry whithin which phenomena can affect the observer) << this is a much less intuitive, if technically correct affirmative statement.
10:53 mircea_popescu anywya : as the graph progresses past the antecedent of a leaf, it therefore goes outside the event horizon of that leaf.
10:53 mircea_popescu so if we're drawing and leaf Z requires a in state 3 and we're at state 4, that's it for Z.
10:54 asciilifeform unless we press to z
10:54 asciilifeform recall, thing is steerable
10:54 mircea_popescu that's a press. we're drawing here.
10:55 asciilifeform then yes
10:55 mircea_popescu right.
10:55 asciilifeform but a drawing of the graph illustrates all pressables.
10:56 mircea_popescu in some sort of eigenstate*
10:56 mircea_popescu it doesn't illustrate all pressables that are, but a sort of all pressables that could ever be.
11:00 mircea_popescu in completely unrelated lulz : the "minimum description length community" (what ? dunno, ask them) changed turing's nit to to "nat", because why the fuck not.
~ 25 minutes ~
11:25 asciilifeform l0l!!
11:26 mircea_popescu modern democracy.
11:28 asciilifeform kicking dead lion is easy.
11:28 asciilifeform expect this unit to be eventually renamed to 'qeer' or the like.
11:30 asciilifeform 1298527/1298527 incidentally.
11:30 asciilifeform and... 37080/38479.
11:31 asciilifeform nearly through.
11:31 asciilifeform good for another hour or so !
11:32 mircea_popescu onoes!
11:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, write it a nice 8ball expander to keep adding primes and that's that, can let it be.
11:43 mircea_popescu 2.15mn is not bad. punkman1 got anywhere with the sr stuff ?
~ 20 minutes ~
12:03 mircea_popescu and in other travel news, http://lorelayp.tumblr.com/post/83731067618
~ 16 minutes ~
12:20 mod6 <+ben_vulpes> browsers frequently pass newlines from forms as \r\n << werd thanks for the quick response :]
12:29 asciilifeform in mostly-unrelated nyooz, fewer nodez today than there were 3y ago.
12:29 asciilifeform and fewer today than last year, etc.
12:30 asciilifeform (speaking of actual nodez, rather than muppets)
12:35 danielpbarron my node is nearly caught up although it seems to always be ~200 blocks behind
12:37 asciilifeform oh this is lovely, check it out,
12:37 asciilifeform Resolving pgp.key-server.io... 67.205.56.66, 2607:f298:6050:6f81:f816:3eff:fec4:e651
12:37 asciilifeform Connecting to pgp.key-server.io|67.205.56.66|:443... connected.
12:37 asciilifeform ERROR: cannot verify pgp.key-server.ioâs certificate, issued by â/C=IL/O=StartCom Ltd./OU=Secure Digital Certificate Signing/CN=StartCom Class 1 Primary Intermediate Server CAâs authority.
12:37 asciilifeform l0l!!!
12:43 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu get a load of this. http://kbsriram.com/2014/10/analyzing-rsa-openpgp-keys-in-the-skskeyserver-pool.html <<<<< >>>>> https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kbsriram.com/2014/10/analyzing-rsa-openpgp-keys-in-the-skskeyserver-pool.html (appears not to have existed before last april !)
12:43 gribble The operation succeeded.
12:46 asciilifeform it isn't in the logz prior to now, either.
12:54 BingoBoingo MegaLOL
12:55 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: lol i won't even try to guess what you think i should think about the alberta wildfires, but it's pretty damn lulzy to watch the reigning socialist party flail impotently as they attribute the projected 1/3rd loss of ~the country's~ economic growth for the quarter to "karma" because "karbon"
12:56 BingoBoingo Oh, you've talked about the "boomtown" in decline thing going on there for a while
12:57 pete_dushenski 'boomtown' isn't growing at 10-20% per annum, tis true, but it's pretty resilient at these oil price levels. $20 would be a massacre, $40+ is more than liveable
13:02 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-08#1464636 << a chunk of this seemingly excess capacity is to account for two things : a) the obvious need for husky bodyguards to accompany asian heads of state, and b) the less obvious need for the same platform to accommodate the optional hybrid battery pack that weighs ~900lbs~ more and takes up most of the trunk.
13:02 a111 Logged on 2016-05-08 03:58 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski re: http://www.contravex.com/2016/05/07/pete-buys-a-minivan/ Exactly how fat are Lexus's typical customers that such a gulf is required between passenger car's curb weight and carrying capacity
13:02 pete_dushenski *asian and no-dick, to be fair
13:04 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-05#1463281 << i should probably update my blog links from the old #b-a ones huh, at least my 'reviews' in the right column
13:04 a111 Logged on 2016-05-05 12:53 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, check out what ancient lulz i found on pete's blog http://btcbase.org/log/?date=24-07-2014#766538
13:05 pete_dushenski i wish bbet would come back so i could bet on phuctor cracking a deedbot l2 key. seems like the kind of thing no one would expect, like ron paul talking for 10 minutes or w/e it was
13:07 pete_dushenski still weird that znort is awol. she has a key, why not provide updates here ?
13:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nice find eh.
13:08 mircea_popescu modern democracy. creating history, since 1950.
13:09 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski don't forget armor.
13:10 pete_dushenski armor, batteries, a week's supply of astronaut food...
13:10 mircea_popescu armor's the big thing.
13:11 pete_dushenski though really, what's wrong with being assassinated ? better than irrelevancy in old age
13:11 pete_dushenski ask napolean
13:12 pete_dushenski http://www.alpineco.com/armored/Lexus/LS600-hybrid.php << 1700lbs of armor. oof!
13:13 pete_dushenski that'll slow you down more than mysterious dedibox unpluggings
13:16 mircea_popescu yeah. most upper line merc/lexus/what have you have the engine and torque transmission etc optimized for armor even if you're not buying the armor upgrade.
13:17 mircea_popescu also a large part of why diesel upscale cars were popular for so long. excellent torque.
13:17 mircea_popescu kinda died off with the age of rocketry, bout late 90s.
13:18 mircea_popescu no idea why they didn't go full takn and add the gunports, but w/e.
13:22 BingoBoingo in other lolz http://qntra.net/2016/05/abducted-liberty-reserve-founder-sentenced-to-20-years-in-prison/#comment-57620
13:22 mircea_popescu lol!
13:23 mircea_popescu "was naturally involved with the prosecution with evil itself offering:" << this dun flow. "was naturally involved with the prosecution:"
13:24 mircea_popescu severe the relationship << sever
13:24 mircea_popescu lol sorry for your laws. epic.
13:26 pete_dushenski gunports make plenty of sense, as does the fact that tmsr will end up redesigning personal transportation along with computing and everything else besides
13:27 mircea_popescu yeah, flying bikesheds.
13:27 * pete_dushenski imagines cows and catapults
13:30 pete_dushenski btw happy mother's day! (to diana_coman(?), etc.)
13:31 pete_dushenski first one for the girl. no big deal.
13:32 asciilifeform armour worked for lenin.
13:32 asciilifeform but he was an orc.
13:32 asciilifeform 'humans' decided that it is easier/cheaper to lobotomize population
13:32 asciilifeform so 'no one thinks of' firing.
13:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform note that they very carefully don't go places lenin went w/o a thought.
13:35 mircea_popescu rocketry. ended many things.
13:35 asciilifeform long before rocket
13:35 asciilifeform shaped charge.
13:36 asciilifeform and yes, lizards returned to 'forbidden city' model.
13:36 mircea_popescu yeah, but that was only half the answer. rocket also delivers the hsaped charge.
13:36 asciilifeform aha. in the old days you had to bury it.
13:37 mircea_popescu and notice that it did end stuff like the a-h empire.
13:39 asciilifeform in none too distant future, lizards will have to avoid open sky entirely
13:39 asciilifeform as 'quad chopper' from 2000 metres can also deliver shaped charge.
13:40 mircea_popescu aha.
13:40 BingoBoingo fxd
13:40 mircea_popescu well... they already kinda do.
13:40 asciilifeform (and, i will add, NONE of today's vehicles have decent top armour)
13:40 pete_dushenski what's decent ?
13:40 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: anything like the side plate
13:40 mircea_popescu he has a point. there is no more decent.
13:40 asciilifeform reactive, say
13:40 mircea_popescu "armor" in vehicles is like "antivirus" in computers.
13:40 mircea_popescu if you got it, you lose.
13:40 asciilifeform quite
13:41 pete_dushenski like obummer's 'beast' aha
13:41 asciilifeform at any rate, 'swarm' attack makes the reactive brick a laugh
13:41 mircea_popescu quite exactly. there is no armor.
13:41 asciilifeform so first chopper didn't break you. fine, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.
13:42 pete_dushenski might as well jfkconvertible it then
13:42 pete_dushenski i can see it
13:43 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: the problem was solved long ago, by only parading disposable figureheads in public.
13:43 asciilifeform (have you ever seen, e.g., dimon, in a motorcade ?)
13:44 pete_dushenski i just read about zuckerberg's 'sekoority' expenses
13:44 pete_dushenski something like $4-6mn a year ? maybe not much, but more than mp spends, likely
13:44 asciilifeform potus spends more still, what of it
13:44 asciilifeform any idiot with money can spend.
13:45 pete_dushenski so they can, so they do
13:45 pete_dushenski alas, i must unfortunately be off again. will endeavour to return soon. and for longer!
13:46 mircea_popescu the notion that money buys security is not unlike the notion that smegma buys health.
13:47 mircea_popescu (yes, smegma does have some health benefits in some circumstances that you're not likely to encounter, that nevertheless had a larger impact on history of life on earth than anything you ever encountered conceivably could.)
13:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: supposing the money buys anything at all, he is buying http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-04#1462341
13:47 a111 Logged on 2016-05-04 04:08 mircea_popescu: two people have an argument and one gets really angry, police can fix this. random derp gets overexcited tries to ship smoke detector shavings to ex gf's mother, police can fix this.
13:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform famous case of central asian conflict, rich guy vs powerful guy, rich guy end up fed liquid gold.
13:48 asciilifeform aha i recall.
13:48 mircea_popescu incidentally that was VERY MUCH a case of usistan vs iranistan.
13:48 mircea_popescu dude was srsly "oh we're too intellectual property to care"
13:52 asciilifeform history of idiot kings is as long as history of kings.
~ 26 minutes ~
14:18 mircea_popescu incidentally, for any haskell people : http://trilema.com/2016/multivariate-calculus-for-experts/
14:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you will prolly appreciate the little bayestard murder gem i've produced:D
14:33 mircea_popescu and in other news, holy shit check out teh scam of teh future : http://infinitythegame.com/whatis.php << why not do all the hard work of computing a rpg BY HAND! and pay 50 pounds per fucking figurine so you can paintakingly reconstruct all the hard work of a gfx card by hand also!
14:34 mircea_popescu next they're gonna sell these schmucks bitcoin mining kids in longhand. 95 dollar special pencil! has a bitcoin logo on it!
14:34 deedbot [Trilema] Multivariate calculus for experts - http://trilema.com/2016/multivariate-calculus-for-experts/
~ 56 minutes ~
15:31 danielpbarron mircea_popescu> incidentally that was VERY MUCH a case of usistan vs iranistan << iranistan is the actual name of a street around where i live, a word invented by pt barnum (the circus guy) who was the mayor for a time ; he wanted to build his mansion on a street that had an exotic sounding name. The thing has since burned down if i'm not mistaken, and the street is now littered with those getto style houses that look like they sho
15:34 danielpbarron mircea_popescu> and in other news, holy shit check out the scam of the future << sounds like a copy-cat of "warhammer" which I think had a medieval theme; the figures come unpainted and you're supposed to paint them yourself. i think that's more of the point as a little art project although i'm sure the price is ridiculous
~ 44 minutes ~
16:19 mircea_popescu ha, fancy that. had no idea barnum was a mayor.
16:19 mircea_popescu but anyway : these seem fully built. not that there's anything wrong with buying little mass produced statuettes, it's how the catholic church made half its money.
~ 21 minutes ~
16:41 BingoBoingo Well, if the idea made money before it is going to get recycled
16:54 shinohai If only they still sold indulgences ...
~ 23 minutes ~
17:17 BingoBoingo What do you think all those AIDS chairities are?
~ 28 minutes ~
17:45 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-06#1464016 <<< mazeltov!
17:45 a111 Logged on 2016-05-06 16:03 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-06#1463998 << no leaving the house!111
17:46 davout also bitbet's heart seems to have started beating again
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
19:00 BingoBoingo $up joecool
19:00 deedbot joecool voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 43 minutes ~
19:43 hanbot deedbot- http://thewhet.net/han/mpifpc4_closure.txt.asc
↖
19:43 deedbot- accepted: 1
~ 1 hours 32 minutes ~
21:16 mircea_popescu aaand in other lafond news, http://65.media.tumblr.com/f0086d948ed9e02fb871b542dcbe3119/tumblr_noh83hssPg1stacfgo1_1280.jpg
~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~
22:51 deedbot [Daniel P. Barron] Unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good. - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/unloving-unforgiving-slanderers-without-self-control-brutal-despisers-of-good/
~ 18 minutes ~
23:10 mircea_popescu danielpbarron obviously, being a dumb cunt's way worse than being dead.
23:11 danielpbarron dumb cunt in this context is already dead in the spiritual sense
23:11 mircea_popescu possibly. the matter is confused in the original sources.
23:12 mircea_popescu lol danielpbarron slaying teh twatter crowd.
23:13 mircea_popescu " The result was an onslaught of mentions so great that it occasionally caused my iPhone twatter app to crash." << perhaps apple could ~literally~ wink wink nudge nudge buy russia ; then make it crash now and again.
23:13 mircea_popescu owait.
23:22 mircea_popescu http://danielpbarron.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/obeast1.png <<< ahahaha thats pretty good damnation. so twitter at its peak is 100k impressions, 21k "detail expands", 1,2k clicks, 54 replies, 51 likes, 13 retweets and 2 follows.
23:24 mircea_popescu shit bro, that's what, half hour's work a la http://trilema.com/2016/files-from-the-war-on-the-web-today-literotica/ or about four dollars' worth, provided twitter traffic is actually as productive as blind click skim. which it probably isn't.
23:24 danielpbarron the 1.2k "clicks" were to my twatter profile though.. so not nearly as good
23:24 mircea_popescu so twitter can do what, a hundred or two of these a day, and is consequently worth maybe half a million a year, gross ? over an expense account a hundred times that ?
23:24 mircea_popescu nice story.
23:25 mircea_popescu danielpbarron aha. seriously, if one sat down to figure the actual value of these social media things, they'd be surprised how well they line up with actual historical datapoints, such as "what slashdot sold for" etc.
23:27 danielpbarron and yeah the "detail expand" is their disingenuous way of fluffing up the "engagement" number
23:28 mircea_popescu (blind click skim, which apparently is entirely unknown to google, as per usual - jesus that shit's worthless, the answers it has you only actually need if you're retarded, and everything else it has no clue about - is this concept from the old days when internet porn still made money, but after the glory days when it made serious money. the silver age so to speak. it consisted of a bunch of people making free tgps [thumbnail
23:28 mircea_popescu preview galleries] as an attempt to entice "users" to sign up with paysites. large affiliate model spawned up. the idea being that whern you click on an image, you're taken somewhere - that's blind click skim.
23:29 mircea_popescu the thing had developped to the degree someone made a thumb sorter sometime in 2002 or so, which sorted the imagaes by how clicked they were, so people could manage their tgps with less effort. as a side yielded all sorts of interesting anthropological results. for instance... hm. shit this is getting more involved than i thought.
23:30 mircea_popescu so : these tgps "traded" traffic with one another like crazy, on the idea that hey, there's a guy here with cock in hand, best sort him out to something he can get off to asap. so very much reminiscent of the egyptian shopkeepers who, if i inquired for an item they didn't have, would run off to a friend/cousin/competitor that did, then take me there and get a small cut of baksheesh.
23:31 mircea_popescu this gave rise to the concept of "traffic productivity", ie, how many clicks you get per users.
23:32 mircea_popescu and it being a business, soon enough it became a matter of skimming the milk. getting some traffic to come in meant you got clicks to send to all the other guys you're trading with which meant they sent you theirs,
23:32 mircea_popescu and so "traffic productivity" became an issue : if your traffic productivity was > 100 (%) that meant that for every click into your thing, you had >1 click to send out, meaning the trades had to send > 1 click in, and then you could explode!
23:33 mircea_popescu but skimming being what it is, people always tried to feed their stuff with shit [say, indian traffic], which'd get high "productivity" but obviously low value (as what indian is spending 30 bux online in 2003?)
23:33 mircea_popescu then this interracted with the tgp sorting algos : you'd end up with a list of thumbnails sorted BY HOW MUCH INDIANS LIKED THEM
23:34 mircea_popescu ah, the history of "internet marketing" is long and interesting indeed.
23:35 danielpbarron i suppose the social media sites can make money letting people like me pay to force people who hate people like me to see the hateful things they hate seeing, which I have actually done :D
23:35 mircea_popescu yes, but this is what's known as the novelty penny.
23:35 mircea_popescu ie, you'll never buy russia on this.
23:35 mircea_popescu (which is WHY i thought it notable barnum was ever mayor)
23:36 danielpbarron yep he was mayor of bridgeport back when bridgeport was the place to be, back when it still had industry
23:36 mircea_popescu anyway, i stand by it, if the year were 2006 and twitter was a tgp, it'd be worth about 600k. which in today's money is maybe 1mn.
23:37 mircea_popescu they claim they're not a tgp, i do not believe so. that's the crux of teh matter. they in point of fact contain no actual content past some thumbnails they cropped out of other people's porn shots.
23:38 BingoBoingo If only we could drop PT Barnum in a contemporary urban walmart
23:39 BingoBoingo http://oglaf.com/runway/
23:40 hanbot mircea_popescu do you think that's true of all ugc hubs?
23:41 mircea_popescu hanbot well... gimme a list of these, what're you thinking about ?
23:42 hanbot well, facebook, etsy, change.org, reddit, entire browser history of the avg. derp
23:43 hanbot as long as it's user generated content, yknow?
23:44 mircea_popescu certainly no different for the various "social media" derpitudes. facebook is so exactly myspace 2.0 it bleeds. reddit somehow thinks it'll escape the fate of digg, which is histerical for anyone who's been online for longer than they've spent in school. what's digg worth today, incidentaly ? EXACTLY the same pittance they're all worth on their own.
23:44 danielpbarron i know it's true of facebook; some youtuber made a thing about how paying for offical promotion caused him to get ~less~ clicks because all the indians diluted out his actual fans
23:44 mircea_popescu otherwise, as you know, art projects, they're worth exactly what the [usg] rich patron says they're worth, for as long as that lasts (not usually long)
23:45 mircea_popescu danielpbarron this is what's so amusing about it - shiot the porn people had figured out 10-15-20 years ago, these schmucks are still innocent of, thoroughly.
23:46 mircea_popescu hanbot i have nfi about etsy really, but stuff like amazon definitely has actual business power behind it. google likes to pretends it does, also. i do not believe them, and the desperation fluff pieces a la "artificial intelligence" are so transparently tailored to satisfy the investor's dream needs (for an investor that's apparently pretty stupid), they count as proof to me.
23:46 hanbot hahaha
23:46 mircea_popescu anyway. amazon has made serious, defensible gains in the important topic of warehouse management. that's worth dough.
23:47 mircea_popescu google had perhaps, in 2002 ; and certainly held great promise, for a decade-ish hence. but it's gone by now. they like to pretend like they know shit, but a cursory examination of search results shows the charade for what it is. they know "a lot for a rock", which is great, except who cares about rocks.
23:47 danielpbarron incidently, amazon is the one thing i ever bought something from after seeing an ad on the web (that i can recall)
23:48 mircea_popescu change.org is, by and large, obama's personal blog - except he doesn't write much and the comment section's self moderated. how is this relevant, his 8 years are up.
23:48 mircea_popescu danielpbarron yeah. bezos is one of the very few respectable us business heads.
23:51 hanbot mircea_popescu but wouldja say google is a tgp? or indistinct failbucket?
23:52 mircea_popescu hanbot it even implemented the "sort thumbs by how lcikced they are" thing!
23:52 hanbot lol okay okay
23:52 mircea_popescu so they go around the web clipping bits out of ever site ; and like a tgp they send a lot of traffic to paysites ; and like a tgp their traffic is mostly shit. and etc.
23:53 mircea_popescu people are still clinging on today to this "search engine traffic is best traffic" mantra, which made sense 10 or 15 years ago, without stopping to think for a moment how the context changed.
23:53 mircea_popescu so some douche found your site VIA GOOGLE ? when this, in 2016 ? does this mean he's smart ? knowledgeable ? connected ?
23:53 mircea_popescu or does it mean the best predictor of how much rain water he has in his mouth is whether it's raining ?
23:54 mircea_popescu yes, in 1999 there was ~no way to know wtf was on the web, and so search engine traffic was not selected for being dumber than the average lawyer.
23:54 mircea_popescu today ? selected to be dumber than the average house cat!
23:58 trinque mod6 │ ;;later tell trinque so how can shinohai help build out wiki.deedbot.org? is there some web-code he can write? or perhaps just preparing articles? << talked with him; all he needs to do is register and can start making pages
23:59 trinque this week I'll look at getting the wiki some wotauth
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