Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-04-13 | 2016-04-15 → ↓
02:33 mats ;;up nosuchlabs.com
02:33 gribble Error: "up" is not a valid command.
02:33 mats ;;isup nosuchlabs.com
02:33 gribble nosuchlabs.com is down
↖
~ 1 hours 39 minutes ~
04:12 punkman http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html
04:16 ben_vulpes run moar old hardware
04:19 punkman and hope you can put together a kernel that works with your shit
04:20 ben_vulpes bsd works on everything
04:21 punkman I'd like to believe that
04:21 ben_vulpes hey i got it running on an old macbook pro
04:21 ben_vulpes should do it again, sans x11
04:21 ben_vulpes just give up on graphix
04:23 punkman yeah I got that memo after trying to get 720/1080p video running on 4-5 linux/android SBCs
04:23 ben_vulpes nop.png
04:23 punkman at least half of them commited seppuku
04:23 ben_vulpes wowee you dun say
04:28 punkman been developing a serious aversion to replacing or buying new hardware
04:37 ben_vulpes hoard those old macs while ye can
~ 42 minutes ~
05:19 davout ;;later tell trinque deedbot still chokes on trailing whitespace in OTPs, and from what i see the OTP comes with this trailing space when decrypted
05:19 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~
06:49 mircea_popescu mats yeah. a fucking year with this, if you can believe it.
06:50 mircea_popescu including five straight months of 1/4 gb ram box at close to a btc/month pulling our dicks.
06:50 mircea_popescu at this rate the us army capital utilization efficiency can't be far behind.
~ 26 minutes ~
07:16 mircea_popescu davout ok, so going through third report : as to note 2-3, so you took out 2.15+0.67314231 = 2.82314231 out of liabilities seeing how the house needn't pay itself, i reckon ? this makes sense.
07:16 mircea_popescu davout doing the shareholder math only for verification, it comes out they should receive 86 BTC from auction - 13.37 your fee + 3.35043347 (1% of 335.04334737 winnings ) + 1.21 (donations) + 2.82314231 (house above) which then with the tx fees comes out right.
07:16 mircea_popescu davout but speaking of which cent, you're not seriously going to make all the payments in one single txn are you ? who knows what other unworking bit of the unspecified protocol that "everyone knows" in retrospect but only after it happens we'll end up discovering.
07:16 mircea_popescu davout so i'm thinking this is all good. getting back to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448430 i guess we rectify it to i owe you 199.45006789, you owe me 4.83378422 hw credit + 50 for mpex shareholders + 15.00178846 my share (i'm taking it you'll be paying kakobrekla's directly ?) which leaves a net of 129.61449521. that right ?
~ 23 minutes ~
07:39 shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/wHv <<< moar ShapeShit junk
07:39 gribble The operation succeeded.
07:39 mircea_popescu in other lulz, this bitly thing is out of the www fantasy lmao. " 24/7 Security We’re looking out for you. We have a dedicated IT team monitoring your account 24/7 and guaranteed 99% uptime. We’re always on the lookout, so you don’t have to be."
07:40 mircea_popescu not far away is the day "guarantee 80% uptime" will be an actual sales point.
07:42 mircea_popescu and in yet more lulz, whoa BingoBoingo can you fucking believe the commenter interest in changetip ?! mindboggling.
07:42 shinohai :Unlike the competition, we can gyarantee 81.3% uptime at a minimum"
07:47 shinohai ;;tcker
07:47 gribble Error: "tcker" is not a valid command.
07:47 shinohai ;;ticker
07:47 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 424.94, Best ask: 425.14, Bid-ask spread: 0.20000, Last trade: 424.94, 24 hour volume: 5500.9353489, 24 hour low: 423.0, 24 hour high: 426.49, 24 hour vwap: None
07:51 punkman such stable
08:01 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: the url shortener? 24/7?
08:03 mircea_popescu they're hiring, dawg.
08:03 mircea_popescu they have a page with obscure executivs from anodyne shitshows providing social proof. CAREER, hombre.
08:04 mircea_popescu fucking CAREERS at here today gone tomorrow no model no revenue no hope vc inflatatrons
08:04 mircea_popescu i've been chuckling and smirking all morning ; their treat.
08:05 mircea_popescu didja know wiener media is a thing ? hired some chick that shoulda been a stripper to "senior director of something or the other"
08:05 mircea_popescu it never ends.
08:06 mircea_popescu (wenner media, rolling stone magazine publisher, they used to sort-of matter in 1982.)
08:13 * ben_vulpes idly browses faces on their website, looking for this 'shoulda'
08:13 ben_vulpes heh
08:14 ben_vulpes there's always one beardo taking photos of the inside of his nostrils
08:14 mircea_popescu lol
08:15 ben_vulpes lol and lindsay anderson doesn't even give enough of a shit to put up anything other than a party pic
08:15 ben_vulpes and just for lolz, let's see what this looks like in a plain text browser
08:16 mircea_popescu look at those fabulous pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/blabla delays.
08:16 mircea_popescu https://archive.is/PR7I1#selection-395.0-395.14 << shoulda
08:17 ben_vulpes eeeeeyikes
08:17 ben_vulpes that is not a flattering photo of ms riskin
08:19 ben_vulpes fine way to spend a sleepless night
08:19 ben_vulpes critiquing headshots on shartup websites
08:19 mircea_popescu why aren;t you sleeping again ?
08:20 mircea_popescu anyway ; marissa o'hare was a party girl 15-20 years ago. always lulzy to see gals still clinging on to their "29" pix.
08:20 ben_vulpes the rare deadline about which i give a shit
08:22 davout looks like the web log is not up to date
08:23 davout last entry is 03:27 zulu
08:23 mircea_popescu phf yo log died
08:24 davout mircea_popescu: re your comments, you took the previous hw numbers (i made a small mistake in accounting its amount)
08:24 davout let's go through it
08:24 davout so you owe
08:24 davout ;;calc 1040.78385211 - 841.33337474
08:24 gribble 199.45047737
08:25 davout (you had 199.45006789 which was slightly off due to this hot wallet error)
08:25 davout from this we remove the 50 for mpex shareholders
08:25 mircea_popescu davout meanwhile, accounting points out another snag. specifically, while it's correct that the proceeds of house bets go to shareholders ; it's incorrect that the bets themselves come out of thin air. the bitbet house bets were not a personal gift of mp to the bitbet shareholders, they were an expense undertook by said shareholders, which i generously (and perhaps ineptly) floated for them. so should be on liability side.
08:26 davout ok, let's just finish this first
08:26 mircea_popescu kk.\
08:27 davout so we're at
08:27 davout ;;calc (1040.78385211 - 841.33337474) - 50 - (30.00357692 / 2)
↖
08:27 gribble 134.44868891
08:27 davout you substracted the hot wallet amount from this, but it's already taken into account in the 841.33337474
08:27 davout 'cash i have on hand'
08:29 davout ;;calc 750.5 + 86 + (4.25470474 + 0.57867)
08:29 gribble 841.33337474
08:29 mircea_popescu i see no value in using either 1040 or 841 value of unknown provenance.
08:29 davout see, this includes the hot wallet already ^
08:29 mircea_popescu the entirety of my responsibility here is the sum of bets.
08:29 davout sure, then remove 86 from both the 1040 and 841, same difference
08:30 mircea_popescu ;;calc 331.69291390 + 616.53072474
08:30 gribble 948.22363864
08:30 mircea_popescu ;;calc 948.22363864 - 750.5
08:30 gribble 197.72363864
08:30 mircea_popescu now why the fuck doesn't this match that ;/
08:30 davout you need to take 335.04334737, the amount before fees
08:30 mircea_popescu oh oh, the house bets yes.
08:30 mircea_popescu right lessee.
08:31 davout ;;calc (616.53072474 + 335.04334737) - 750.5
08:31 gribble 201.07407211
08:31 mircea_popescu now im lost as to why the fuck i had a 199 figure which matches netiehr of these ;/
08:32 davout ;;calc (616.53072474 + 335.04334737 + 1.21000000 + 1.99978) - 750.5
08:32 gribble 204.28385211
08:32 davout ;;calc 204.28385211 - 4.83337474
08:32 gribble 199.45047737
08:32 davout aaaaaand here we go
08:33 mircea_popescu ah!
08:33 mircea_popescu so right right, that's the right number then, 199.45047737, ie owed bets + refunds - hw.
08:33 davout so that's basically, the sum of bets, the donations, the unhandled zeroconf proposal, minus the hot wallet i already have in hand
08:33 mircea_popescu right. so it's the correct basis there. and the hw is indeed already counted.
08:33 davout owed bets + refunds - hw + donations + unhandled
08:33 mircea_popescu ;;calc 199.45047737 - 50 - (30.00357692 / 2)
08:33 gribble 134.44868891
08:34 mircea_popescu and there we go, matches.
08:34 mircea_popescu alrighty, this is then the correct figure, pending the house bets issue which afaik is the last item.
08:38 davout what's your idea here?
08:39 davout since the last statement there weren't any house bets made amirite
08:39 mircea_popescu my idea is that while it's true that the proceeds from house bets shouldn't be counted against the shareholders - it is at the same time the actual sum of those bets as made should count as a credit for me.
08:39 davout and those before were already accounted for
08:39 mircea_popescu all pending bets count * 0.1
08:39 mircea_popescu how exactly were they already accounted for ?
08:40 davout in "house bets made"
08:40 davout last report has 0.50 in this item
08:40 mircea_popescu i'm sorry ?
08:41 davout http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#selection-101.0-101.28
08:41 mircea_popescu that is entirely besides the point. for every bet currently open, the "house" put in 0.1 btc.
08:41 mircea_popescu these 0.1 btc came out of my own pocket, as a credit towards bitbet, that now has to be unwound.
08:41 mircea_popescu or alternatively, if you prefer, came out of bettor's funds.
08:41 mircea_popescu whatever it came from - it's not mine to pay for.
08:42 mircea_popescu so : it's true that i don't have to keep the proceeds. it is not however true they're free money.
08:43 mircea_popescu (i imagine you took out the house bet proceeds from liabilities because kakobrekla whined. characteristically for the "partnership" mentality, he forgot to mention this other part.)
08:47 davout you have a point, i'll update the report accordingly
08:50 asciilifeform <mircea_popescu> including five straight months of 1/4 gb ram box at close to a btc/month pulling our dicks. << that thing incidentally has been the ONLY public trb node that has never fallen down. not once.
08:50 asciilifeform while it remains true that this is not why mircea_popescu bought it, this is certainly far from 'usg capitalization' bottom of the ocean.
08:50 mircea_popescu i think for some reason you got the idea that if mp gets phuctor server it's ok to come in, redefine it as "trb node" and move on.
08:51 mircea_popescu this is not how it works.
08:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: send me a signed addr and bill ?
08:52 mircea_popescu im sending you your walking papers if you're going to insist playing the idiot, how about that ?
08:56 * asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu as the hruschev in film 'enemy at the gates' - 'you lost battalion, motherfuckers!? lose the other one! or lose yourself!'
08:57 mircea_popescu not even far off.
08:59 * asciilifeform brb, losing other battalion
~ 32 minutes ~
09:31 phf logger down, will recover in a few
~ 35 minutes ~
10:07 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> and in yet more lulz, whoa BingoBoingo can you fucking believe the commenter interest in changetip ?! mindboggling. << Seriously.
10:10 BingoBoingo shinohai: ty
~ 32 minutes ~
10:42 shinohai I think I sent you the copy w/out source BingoBoingo sorry. Was early before I had sufficient coffee.
10:44 BingoBoingo k, resend havent decrypted it yet, or just pm source.
~ 30 minutes ~
11:14 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2016/04/voorhees-shapeshift-hit-inside-job/
11:21 asciilifeform http://serverfault.com/questions/769357/recovering-from-a-rm-rf << lulz
11:35 phf i apologize for downed log, everything's operational, but my backup logs are on a secure machine, that i can't access from mobile. log will be back at 2pm EST
11:36 phf would be nice to have that postgresql connection right about now :)
11:37 asciilifeform phf: i take it your box got disconnected by fleanode, like mine.
11:38 phf yeah, but the bot explicitly doesn't reconnect, because i don't want to lose messages and introduce continuity break. perhaps i should just do that as a "good enough" measure, but i want to just write a communicating-multi-bot setup over the weekend
11:39 phf i.e. n-bots connect and reconcile with each other before submitting shared answer to logotron. if i spread them across fleenode servers should account even for splits
11:39 * phf bbl
11:40 asciilifeform this sounds spiffy but might introduce strange effects from splits
11:40 asciilifeform (how will multiple conflicting wot ops happening on different sides of n-way netsplit be handled ?)
~ 18 minutes ~
11:58 asciilifeform deedbot has quit (Read error: error:140D2081:SSL routines:TLS1_ENC:block cipher pad is wrong) << l0lwut?!
12:00 trinque wtf.
12:00 trinque phf: I have not been collecting logs in postgresql because I thought you were going to handle it
↖
12:00 trinque but am not opposed
12:01 trinque wtf re: SSL error
12:01 asciilifeform trinque: i find the ssl barfs interesting, where precisely do they come from in your thing ?
12:01 asciilifeform (i don't recall seeing any ssltronics in the src that was linked here)
12:01 asciilifeform is it part of cl-irc package ?
12:02 trinque yep, it can make use of cl+ssl
12:02 trinque and does in my case
12:07 asciilifeform ;;google TLS1_ENC:block cipher pad is wrong
12:07 gribble Curl: RE: block cipher pad is wrong: <https://curl.haxx.se/mail/archive-2000-11/0033.html>; CS27766 - Cognos Reports fail when using a Trusted root CA ...: <https://support.ptc.com/apps/solution_preview/solution/lang/presolution?lang=en&n=CS27766>; New rules for ignoring noise. (!8) · Merge Requests · riseup ... - GitLab: (1 more message)
12:07 asciilifeform ^ apparently this is a thing
12:07 asciilifeform and, unsurprisingly, no canonical explanation exists
12:07 trinque it happened just as I tried to $up myself
12:09 asciilifeform presumably the only ssltronic link is b/w fleanode and deedbot ?
12:13 asciilifeform btw does everyone remember that fleanode was owned ~2y ago ?
12:13 asciilifeform and 'nothing came of it' ?
12:15 asciilifeform in not-quite-unrelated-nyooz, http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=EA927EA1-E098-4E62-8E61-DF55CBAC1649
12:15 asciilifeform http://www.wired.com/2016/04/senates-draft-encryption-bill-privacy-nightmare << discussion.
12:16 asciilifeform nobody cancelled the whip-the-hellespont thing.
12:16 asciilifeform '...would require people to comply with any authorized court order for data—and if that data is “unintelligible,” the legislation would demand that it be rendered “intelligible.”'
12:17 asciilifeform now the way this kind of monkey trick works is that 'outrageous' draft law in usa is built so as to push 'overton window' and make otherwise plain lunacy appear 'reasonable'.
12:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> btw does everyone remember that fleanode was owned ~2y ago ? << http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-16#1324993
12:27 mircea_popescu gets restated periodically, hence mircea_popescu: anyway, freenode does not enjoy any degree of tmsr trust afaik.
12:28 asciilifeform i mention it now because, as far as i can tell, the error trinque's bot dies with is a result of undocumented and peculiar misprotocoling on server side.
12:28 mircea_popescu phf kinda curious how you'll solve the various byzantine problems of a multibot setup.
12:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeh there's probably something there.
12:31 asciilifeform openssl was quite consciously ~built~ with the goal of hosting these verminiferous ulcers where server can flip a bit and create a new path through client code that allows the planets to align just-so and... etc
12:33 asciilifeform ftr a number of my boxes were subjected to rather elaborate probing today.
12:34 asciilifeform (message to proberz : probe that is visible to the motherfucking naked eye , regardless of how otherwise original, is an insult to the intelligence of a shoe)
12:41 asciilifeform $up TomServo
12:41 deedbot TomServo voiced for 30 minutes.
12:41 TomServo Thanks, just curious what was original or interesting with the probe you mention?
12:42 TomServo $gettrust deedbot TomServo
12:42 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
12:42 TomServo hmph.
12:42 asciilifeform TomServo: merely that someone took the time to actually try services on nonstandard ports, and the bruteforce dict appeared to consist of realistic-looking pws (presumably leaked somewhere or other)
12:43 asciilifeform not the ordinary 10x/daily 'root/toor' crapolade from cn
12:46 TomServo Interesting... saw something similar.
12:47 asciilifeform TomServo: when/where ?
12:48 trinque http://dpaste.com/1S1RC3Y.txt << deedbot.org fail2ban
12:48 TomServo Looks like from Brazil, earlier this morning
12:48 asciilifeform mine was a hetzner.
12:49 mircea_popescu welll since we're doing this...
↖
12:49 trinque asciilifeform: second IP in my paste is hetzner
12:50 asciilifeform oh hey.
12:50 asciilifeform same.
12:53 trinque we've got the A team on us, eh?
12:54 trinque then there's 212.129.25.95 who has been careful not to trip fail2ban
12:57 mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/34CXV0W << trilema
13:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: similar.
13:08 asciilifeform pretty lulzy.
13:08 asciilifeform now perhaps i drank too much mircea_popescutroinium with breakfast today, but now i wonder how often the point of such a port scan is ~the scan per se~ rather than actual logical result thereof.
13:09 asciilifeform 'look we did our j0b!111 check box in 3ring today'
13:09 trinque what, you don't think the best and brightest work at the NSA, I mean the subcontractor for the NSA, I mean the sub-sub...
13:10 asciilifeform trinque: last night i learned that they have... ~women~ at nsa !
13:10 asciilifeform didja know?!
13:10 trinque how inclusive
13:11 trinque $rate TomServo 1
13:11 deedbot TomServo is not registered in WoT.
13:12 trinque $gettrust tomservo
13:12 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
13:12 asciilifeform according to maslennikov, kgb ciphers directorate (su nsa) did not use chix.
13:13 trinque $rate TomServo 1
13:14 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/a90fca15-327a-4be8-951d-dac7a89faa16/
13:15 trinque $v E37DFA225B328852187BD7870400F7CA08DDCEFF2FE2CCA25FCDBF1BC06B6C4E
13:15 deedbot trinque rated TomServo 1
13:15 trinque $gettrust deedbot TomServo
13:15 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
13:15 * trinque wonders where the mega-lag is coming from
13:16 asciilifeform Apr 14 13:09:53 <trinque>what, you don't think the best and brightest work at the NSA, I mean the subcontractor for the NSA, I mean the sub-sub... << my current understanding is that 'best and brightest' don't actually work anywhere, they sit in arkakao and eat ice cream with mircea_popescu et al
13:16 trinque box was at like 16% cpu at the time
13:16 asciilifeform trinque: same place as the lag on my trb nodez
13:16 trinque yep
13:16 asciilifeform i suppose usg mitmatron is written in java or sumthing.
13:16 asciilifeform 5-15s lag.
13:17 trinque ENTERPRISE!!!11!
13:17 asciilifeform entrail pies.
~ 15 minutes ~
13:32 shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo /me noticed slight discrepancy with Shapeshit submission.
13:32 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~
14:45 asciilifeform $up sbp
14:45 deedbot sbp voiced for 30 minutes.
14:48 asciilifeform sbp: you can talk, y'know
14:48 asciilifeform sbp: and ftr i'm fond of bernstein but not of ecc.
14:52 sbp why not of ecc?
14:54 asciilifeform sbp: yer comment approved, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545&cpage=1#comment-17716
14:55 sbp that's some foxy loving. thanks asciilifeform!
14:55 sbp here is some more joy from the Times That People [CD]are Not To Recall:
14:55 sbp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnDrs2b5zA
14:56 asciilifeform sbp: i recommend drinking less - srsly, it worked for some of the folks here...
14:56 sbp ("Max Allen and Ted Nelson discuss the future of computers (1979)")
14:56 sbp hehe
14:57 asciilifeform $gettrust sbp
14:57 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
14:58 sbp Nelson mentions that computer is a misnomer, and quoted Von Neumann as calling them all-purpose machines. I tracked that down potentially to https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rdm34/burks.pdf
14:58 sbp (§ 1.2)
14:59 trinque check it out; it's cowboy adlai
14:59 sbp I apologise for not having a PGP presence, the baseline of citizenship
14:59 asciilifeform sbp: this is curable
14:59 sbp I'll forbear my Roman name for now, but perhaps the invocations will come to my fingers sooner or later
15:00 phf so either cmucl or i have finally gone mad. (setq *connection* (irc-connect)) few lines later (error "~a" *connection*). error comes back as "NIL"
15:04 sbp asciilifeform: is Phuctor permadead? (the worst kind of dead)
15:05 trinque sbp: service guarantees citizenship, I thought it was
15:08 sbp trinque: you recall the redistribution of land by Lycurgus of Lacedaemon?
15:08 sbp the joke that most historians neglect to mention is that it didn't apply to slaves
15:10 * trinque has to depart
15:10 trinque sbp: should you wish to register, just pop your pubkey into deedbot with $register
15:10 sbp thanks
15:10 asciilifeform sbp: nope
15:11 asciilifeform not dead, just sleeping.
15:12 sbp I hope it didn't exceed https://www.jwz.org/blog/2008/03/most-positive-bignum/
15:12 shinohai The usg gave phuctor an overdose of Ambien
15:18 asciilifeform $up sbp
15:18 deedbot sbp voiced for 30 minutes.
15:19 sbp I may have to endure citizenship just to save you from the ignominy of periodic bot commands
15:19 asciilifeform sbp: did i miss the introduction ? who are you ?
15:20 sbp I'm the Alert Reader from Loper 1361. we don't know one another outside of that, sorry!
15:20 sbp long time listener, second time caller, as they say
15:21 asciilifeform sbp: the only unforgiveable offense is tedium. what did you call in to ~say~ ? trivial py proggy ?
15:22 sbp only that, and to enquire about Phuctor. I have not contacted you again for precisely that reason: I abhor tedum too. I did get a copy of Kogge, and I did review it, and I did create various systems based on that. but none were to my liking so far
15:22 sbp the experimentation continues
15:23 asciilifeform sbp: this sounds more interesting. care to discuss the 'various systems' ?
15:25 sbp have you heard of Reverse Polish Lisp? it was a language for the HP-48 I think from 1987. the idea was that it was meant to combine some of the features of lisp, the high level stuff (as high level as they could squeeze into a late 1980s calculator) and the low level Mooreishness of Forth
15:25 sbp well, it was reverse polish at least, not that this is the most interesting feature of Forth
15:26 sbp but this got me thinking about Lisp bytecode, and whether the best bytecode for Lisp might be Forth, in essence
15:27 sbp also, I don't know if you remember, but the Interlisp-D machine had a program called SEdit
15:27 sbp there isn't much about it on the web now. I think I found a single PDF describing it in detail!
15:27 sbp the idea was that you edited the cons cells directly. there was no intermediate ascii representation. in other words, there was no byte array buffer on which the editor acted; the editor acted directly on the s-expressions in the machine
15:28 sbp a bit like how the SCHEME-79 chip worked. that executed the cons cells directly, as you put it
15:28 sbp well SEdit allowed the editorial process, that protean forge, to work in like direct manner
15:29 sbp so I spent some time thinking about how scoping would work if *lexical* scope were bound to s-expressions and not the ascii representations of programs. because when you think about it, that's all that lexical scope is: it's an artefact of ascii representation, and I thought that perhaps this was not the lispy way
15:30 sbp what I realised was that when you couple scope to s-expressions in this way, it essentially becomes a system of runtime assertions in which you can model not only lexical AND dynamic scope—by choice!—but other kinds of hitherto unexplored scopes too
15:30 sbp the drawback is that because you depend on execution frames (or whatever) for the data, which is what allows the use of dynamic scope of course, this has to be done at runtime. lexical scope would usually be computed at compile time
15:31 sbp I'm not sure I care awfully about the runtime constraint. ("two speeds" of a computer and all that)
15:31 sbp this was all made a lot easier by using de Bruijn notation internally for variables by the way
15:33 sbp when you look at lambda calculus, you get most lacklustre computer scientists talking about alpha-renaming and all this stupid shit that gets in the way, but when you use de Bruijn notation that stuff disappears entirely. it's an epiphenomenon, one of Ptolemy's epicycles
15:33 sbp I also fixed macros, created a previous unheard of macro system which is hygienic without being asinine like all current macro hygiene systems
15:34 sbp but perhaps my favourite thing was that I managed to fix fexprs
15:34 sbp I mean I figured out how to make them compilable
15:34 sbp you remember that Mitchell Wand proved that the theory of fexprs is trivial? i.e. that fexprs cannot actually be compiled, and they must therefore be runtime components
15:35 sbp yeah, well the answer to that is in itself trivial. a child could have come up with it
15:35 sbp Wand's theory, and all the other pissing against fexprs from Pitman onwards, is based on the untyped lambda calculus. naturally. and lisp is untyped in this sense; the types come at runtime
15:35 mircea_popescu hello sbp. who were you again ?
15:35 sbp well, we make one concession to make fexprs that we can compile
15:35 sbp fexprs as arguments to functions must be typed. that's it. that's all we need
15:35 sbp greetings mircea_popescu! I am Sean B. Palmer, very pleased to meet you
15:36 sbp I was invited here by asciilifeform about an hour ago
15:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> 'look we did our j0b!111 check box in 3ring today' << seems altogether likely, this.
15:36 mircea_popescu welcome
15:37 asciilifeform sbp: i've played with the xerox structure editor
15:37 mircea_popescu $gettrust sbp
15:37 asciilifeform and the hp48 lisp
15:37 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
15:38 mircea_popescu sbp you got a pgp key ?
15:38 sbp mircea_popescu: no, but I can generate one. I was going to say "easily", but you know what software is like
15:38 asciilifeform sbp: your observation re lexical scope makes no sense to me
15:39 asciilifeform didja read sicp ?
15:39 sbp asciilifeform: how did you find SEdit? I have only spoken to one friend who used the Interlisp-D machine, and I don't think he said anything about SEdit
15:39 asciilifeform at no point is the 'ascii representation of the code' the pertinent item
15:39 mircea_popescu sbp if you do you'll be able to maintain a presence here / participate in wot etc.
15:39 asciilifeform sbp: i don't recall it being sedit, but some msdos emulator thing called 'medley'
15:40 asciilifeform (i do not own any of the ancient and unobtainable xerox lispm iron)
15:41 asciilifeform sbp: what is asinine about, e.g, scheme's, hygienic macros ?
15:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> sbp: yer comment approved, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545&cpage=1#comment-17716 << can you translate this in vspeak ?!
15:42 asciilifeform holy fuck phf log's been dead all this time
15:42 asciilifeform and i cannot link mircea_popescu to anything
15:42 sbp I was perhaps disingenuous about ascii being the pertinent item. after all, as I say, I could do lexical scope without the ascii representation
15:42 mircea_popescu and holy shit is life impossible without the log. phf when's it 2pm already omaygerd.
15:42 phf asciilifeform: it's a fail
15:42 asciilifeform this 'deliberately don't reconnect' thing is mega-lame imho
15:43 mircea_popescu sbp for my curiosity, you familiar with the state of republican debate on items such as utf and ascii generally ?
15:43 phf asciilifeform: there's nothing wrong with deliberate don't reconnect, twice that happened and nobody cared or noticed
15:43 mircea_popescu phf odds are that was because people were yet not relying on it for work process ?
15:43 asciilifeform aha.
15:44 sbp okay, I have my GPG key exported. https://dpaste.de/fZPN/raw
15:44 phf nope, three days ago was the last one
15:44 sbp and deedbot is gone. long live deedbot!
15:44 mircea_popescu sbp $register <fingerprint>
15:44 phf there's normally a max half hour with no restarts delay between
15:44 mircea_popescu no way ?!
15:44 mircea_popescu do not take the bot name in vane!
15:44 sbp d**dbot
15:45 phf there's an unrelated heisenbug, that i'm failing to fix, hold tight
15:45 sbp I guess it's going to try to grab from pgp.mit.edu?
15:45 phf i would like to point out, that the log has been operational for whole two weeks, it's not quite up to standard of the incrementally constructed, 3 year tested, former b-a
15:45 mircea_popescu sbp i don't recall exactly ; possible tho.
15:46 mircea_popescu phf inacceptabru.
15:46 sbp $register 5D7C0216D9809D44825DFD237CAC2A4BC2F2DA35
15:46 phf maybe if i wrote it in ada, it'd be boing 747 on the first try
15:46 deedbot Import failed for 5D7C0216D9809D44825DFD237CAC2A4BC2F2DA35.
15:47 mircea_popescu trinque remind me, could he give pubkey directly ?
15:47 sbp must, fight, entropy
15:47 sbp $register https://dpaste.de/fZPN/raw
15:47 deedbot Import failed for https://dpaste.de/fZPN/raw.
15:47 sbp apparently not
15:47 mircea_popescu sbp infrastructure just got re-built a coupla weeks ago, ironing out bugs still.
15:48 sbp http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot#register-a-public-key
15:49 mircea_popescu $up sbp
15:49 deedbot sbp voiced for 30 minutes.
15:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform did you give him a bunch of links or is he this lively by nature ?
15:49 sbp the link there has expired — http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH.txt
15:49 mircea_popescu sbp try using dpaste.com rather than .de see ?
15:49 sbp will give it a go
15:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't know the fella at all, but he appears to read my www, that's all i know.
15:50 asciilifeform and no i didn't hand-feed him.
15:50 sbp tried it in private to avoid spamming the channel, but I still get failed import
15:51 * sbp searches bitcoin-assets log for previous registrations
15:51 mircea_popescu sbp bot seems to be in a smashed state. maybe can'\t get outbound connections, we'll see in a bit.
15:51 sbp aha, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-02-2016#1403344
15:52 sbp "Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint"
15:52 mircea_popescu meanwhile, can you actually translate that comment yourself ?
15:52 sbp oh, certainly
15:53 sbp asciilifeform issued a little trivial challenge in the post, directed to the "alert reader", to decode the seal examples that he gives from his single byte encodings into human readable form
15:53 mircea_popescu sbp> why not of ecc? <<< it's in the logs! but in summary : direct equivalent of the obscurantist practice of "whitening" except with math rather than rngs.
15:53 mircea_popescu a sort of ellaborate peekabo.
15:54 sbp I know he just meant alert reader generally, but he did a previous post where one of our chatlogs was titled "the alert reader", and so I decided to take up the challenge anyway because I was curious as to what the encodings were—I wanted to understand how the seals were intended to be used
15:54 asciilifeform the claim of 'this key has fewer bits but more secure than rsa' is esp. galling, because there is NO PROOF of it available in the open literature
15:54 sbp the code was trivial, but I decided to show it to asciilifeform to avoid duplication of effort
15:54 sbp he invited me to post the code to the weblog, and the rest is history
15:54 mircea_popescu i'm sorry, i mean http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545&cpage=1#comment-17716 specifically. what ?!
15:55 asciilifeform yeah i was also not able to make sense of it.
15:55 sbp oh, the spoilers refer to having solved the challenge set in the post. spoilers in the sense of spoiling the end of a movie
15:55 asciilifeform all i saw was a buncha-'vexual'-style salad and a link to a very trivial proggy that de-enumerates the bits.
15:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform however the reverend of nyssa's mockery is quite on point you know :D
15:55 mircea_popescu law french lulz.
15:56 sbp I don't know why I wrote it in the style of a Klondike gold prospector era huckster salesman
15:56 mircea_popescu sbp the cardinal sin of writing is to not know why you chose a style.
15:57 sbp ah, where's the fun in that
15:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform (it was old norman, a marginal dialect of french, disused in france due to paris ascendancy, that survived as a very intricate technical language via oxford law uni.)
15:58 sbp if I were a member of the Guugu Yimithirr I could perform such cardinal sins more easily
15:58 sbp (the "Australian Aboriginal people the Guugu Yimithirr have no words denoting the egocentric directions in their language; instead, they exclusively refer to cardinal directions")
15:58 sbp they did an experiment once where they took a member of the tribe and flipped him around really fast
15:58 sbp after the spin he still knew which direction was which. quite incredible
15:59 sbp I saw something recently where they gave people a belt, and it buzzed in whichever direction was north, to give them haptic feedback as to cardinal directions. they seemed moderately annoyed to indifferent about the belt when wearing it, I recall
15:59 sbp but once the belt was gone, they really missed it
16:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i am familiar with 'law french' aha
16:00 asciilifeform an early lojban, you could even say.
16:01 mircea_popescu the problem of how to prevent the failure mode is of course still open.
16:05 mircea_popescu sbp you got a prototype of this fexpr compiler thing somewhere ?
16:05 sbp nope, I started working on the bytecode stuff straight after that
16:06 sbp well, that is intended to be the compiler target of course. but I haven't finished that yet
16:08 asciilifeform sbp: my conclusion re fexprs was that 'we can't compile this' is in ~all cases an 'epicyclic' restatement of 'our hardware is rubbish'
16:09 mircea_popescu what's wrong with shutt's expansion, if you absolutely want reflectivity
16:09 mircea_popescu or what exactly is the purpose here, i dun rightly follow.
16:10 sbp Wand and Shutt kept arguing about whether Shutt's expansion even worked, and I don't know the outcome of that. but let's say that Kernel (Shutt's language) does work—it's syntactically somewhat unwieldy. typing the fexprs to the arguments is very clean and easy to follow
16:10 sbp I could certainly accept uncompilable fexprs as being an expression of rubbish hardware though
16:10 mircea_popescu so you have a fundamental objection to syntactical convention and a syntactic convenience objection to a fundamental solution.
16:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: a 'fexpr' is essentially a first-class macro.
16:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha.
16:10 asciilifeform see (surprisingly, not a bad summary) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fexpr
16:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform lol check it out, R in see also! MATHS!
16:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fexprs incur no penalty or otherwise problem in an interpreted lang, or, for that matter, a proper lispm
16:12 asciilifeform (which is really a hardware embodiment of an interpreter, if built correctly)
16:12 mircea_popescu some people wanna compile, whatevs.
16:12 sbp yeah, but the rats are on the chips these days
16:12 sbp so a pure lisp chip like SCHEME-79 would still be cool
16:13 sbp maybe even open hardware! maybe even auditable! imagine that!
16:13 asciilifeform sbp: how do you propose to bake an auditable ic ?
16:14 asciilifeform you can put quartz window, eprom-style, but metal is opaque...
16:15 asciilifeform what does it mean to have an 'open hardware' ic ?
16:15 asciilifeform if it means that, given a $B another fella can attempt to replicate, this does not mean much.
16:15 asciilifeform realize that copying a chip mask is a vanishing fraction of the cost of baking an ic
16:15 sbp yeah, even if you took a batch and decapped all of them but one, I suppose you wouldn't know for sure that that wasn't the exploited one. I don't know if it's possible to make a chip that you can audit before it's running
16:16 asciilifeform (ussr made perfectly serviceable pdp clones without understanding a whit of how the thing worked)
16:16 sbp I suppose there's always the FPGA route
16:16 asciilifeform sbp: where do you intend to get a usable fpga ?
16:17 sbp I dunno man. turtles all the way down, and I don't trust any of them
16:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu et al: i'ma have to link to the old logz,
16:17 asciilifeform http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=xilinx
16:17 asciilifeform sbp ^ there ARE NO FPGA
16:17 asciilifeform that are worth the paper they're printed on.
16:18 sbp "and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric" — ugh
16:18 asciilifeform sbp: at present time, not only do you not know what is in the package, but the build chain is several dozen GB of closed x86 turd.
16:19 asciilifeform for ALL fpga.
16:19 sbp don't, you'll give me nightmares. worse ones, I mean
16:19 asciilifeform there is literally nothing on the market that does not fit this description.
16:19 asciilifeform $up sbp
16:19 deedbot sbp voiced for 30 minutes.
16:21 sbp maybe we have to wait another generation or two before we can fab chips at home
16:21 mircea_popescu so other than waiting generations, we and so forth, what is it you do ?
16:22 sbp researcher of early modern history turned freelance programmer
16:23 sbp or vice versa, I forget. maybe both
16:23 mircea_popescu anything i can see ?
16:23 sbp the history, or the programming? https://github.com/sbp/ contains some of my utterly trivial shite
16:24 mircea_popescu no, not utterly trivial shite. the stuff that you are proud of and pointedly accept as the superset of your capacity and abilities.
16:24 sbp none of that on the web, thank goodness
16:25 mircea_popescu hm. we could then correctly say your real life hasn't begun yet ?
16:25 sbp potentially. but Emily Dickinson locked her poems into a drawer, and they only got out again by chance
16:26 sbp William Blake was going to burn his works. maybe he did!
16:26 sbp Crabb Robinson said that he talked him out of it
16:26 mircea_popescu i see.
16:26 sbp we don't know how many works Sappho wrote
16:26 sbp the only surviving copy of the biography that numbers her works has a hole in it
16:26 sbp right where the number is
16:28 sbp asciilifeform: did you see this? http://dump.mntmn.com/interim-paper/
16:28 sbp it's the most Loper-like thing I have seen outside of Loper
16:31 sbp must dash for a bit—in case I lack the +v upon my return, it has been a pleasure. thanks for the chat
16:31 asciilifeform sbp: there is imho nothing interesting about yet another x86 os.
16:31 asciilifeform or, even less interestingly, 'raspberry'.
16:32 asciilifeform understand, DESCRIPTIONS of the problem of complexity cancer ~abound~.
16:33 asciilifeform let's zoom into the pertinent bits in the link,
16:33 asciilifeform 'Fast and simple Microcontrollers like Teensy 3.1 (based on Freescale ARM Cortex-M4 MPU) can be used as a "poor man's GPU" to generate VGA text or graphics output. '
16:33 asciilifeform 'I developed a version of Interim (then called "Bomberjacket OS") that boots on a standard Intel x86 PC as well as a version that runs on the ARM-based Raspberry Pi low-cost computer. '
16:33 asciilifeform 'I ported a USB driver, a network driver, an SD card reader and a low-level driver for the Pi's VideoCore IV GPU. '
16:33 asciilifeform i stopped reading here.
16:33 asciilifeform because 'solution' that reduces to 'let's drop in this closed turd and pretend it does not exist' is NOT INTERESTING.
16:34 asciilifeform ~everything this hard-working fella did, i did IN SCHOOL
16:34 asciilifeform as motherfucking HOMEWORK.
16:34 asciilifeform it is ~trivial~ to craft a toy os for x86.
16:35 asciilifeform it is also trivial to craft a scheme interp for same
16:35 asciilifeform undergrad project. literally.
16:36 asciilifeform what is ~not~ trivial is to not build a house of cards that falls over when you try to do something useful.
16:36 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-14#1451827 << i was just being facetious
16:36 a111 Logged on 2016-04-14 16:00 trinque: phf: I have not been collecting logs in postgresql because I thought you were going to handle it
16:36 mircea_popescu phf has a very solid fear of failure does he.
16:38 mircea_popescu meanwhile in other "solutions to x86 problems and assorted lulz" news, http://trilema.com/2015/facebook-sends-traffic11eleven/#comment-117016
16:39 asciilifeform i saw! fascinating:
16:39 phf moscow highschool has its downsides.
16:39 asciilifeform 'BENEFITS GIVEN TO NEW MEMBERS WHO JOIN ILLUMINATI. 1. A Cash Reward of USD $500,000 USD 2. A New Sleek Dream CAR...' << i find the ustard leper's bell ringing here
16:39 asciilifeform dontcha ?
16:39 asciilifeform srsly, 'CAR' ?
16:39 asciilifeform it is interesting how auto figures in 'rich' fantasy of a ustard
16:40 mircea_popescu CAR!
16:40 asciilifeform CDR!
16:41 asciilifeform CADADDR!
16:41 asciilifeform (yes.)
~ 26 minutes ~
17:08 felipelalli deedbot http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/830a8589-4b13-4ead-bba2-4d1e94345dab/
17:09 felipelalli what is going on with deedbot?
17:13 mircea_popescu be specific ?
17:15 felipelalli I would like to register this doc: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/830a8589-4b13-4ead-bba2-4d1e94345dab/
17:17 shinohai felipelalli: wrong deedbot
17:17 shinohai hmmm deedbot- isn't here :/
17:19 felipelalli shinohai, that's why I asked what is going with "that" deedbot- :)
17:19 mircea_popescu ah ah. felipelalli will have to wait a little - trinque was updating the two bots to merge into one.
17:20 felipelalli nice!! I'd suggest that! :D
17:20 shinohai sweet.
17:24 asciilifeform also am i the only one who doesn't grasp the point of deedbotting dealings outside wot, with randos ...
17:25 mircea_popescu it gotta expand somehow.
17:25 asciilifeform 'Declaro que devo transferir o equivalente a R$ 300,00 (segundo índice BRXBT do momento do envio) para o endereço 1BVkspu64adYhRP3cBvvxXbjyWFfyKyVGG que pertence ao RHAMA BONITAO, que
17:25 asciilifeform infelizmente está fora da civilidade, no máximo 48h após a entrega da
17:25 asciilifeform diagramação do manual da coldwallet da Walltime.
17:25 asciilifeform 'RHAMA BONITAO' doesn't look like a pgp pubkey to me...
17:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how does this expand wot ?
17:26 mircea_popescu this isn't a question that needs an answer. if it works for him it works!
17:26 mircea_popescu if he wants to make it work better, he can.
17:26 asciilifeform this is less of a cricitism of ' felipelalli wastes hdd space !111' but more of 'does he grasp that RHAMA BONITAO is not an entity on our planet '.
17:26 mircea_popescu the expression tho, "belongs to X who unfortunately is outside the walls" is pretty great.
17:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform inasmuch as the deal doesn't concern you, what "our" planet ?
17:27 mircea_popescu obviously it's on his planet!
17:27 asciilifeform no, this is fundemental, i can make this observation without knowing anything about felipelalli or BONITAO
17:27 mircea_popescu what observation ?
17:27 asciilifeform it is cryptographically suffering from 'promisitis'
17:27 mircea_popescu so ?
17:28 mircea_popescu i sleep with women without giving them fingerprint tests!
17:28 asciilifeform but you don't publicly swear oaths to anon chix id'd by their stage namez
17:29 mircea_popescu not normally.
17:29 mircea_popescu some people do marry, mind.
17:29 asciilifeform picture 'i, 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7, hereby proclaim that i owe a quintillion zimbabwellars to the man in the grey coat!'
17:29 mircea_popescu and you see a problem with this ?
17:30 mircea_popescu content of deed is entirely imperio deedorum.
17:30 asciilifeform only to the extent i see a problem with a bloke nailing his balls to a wall with a ball peen hammer.
17:30 asciilifeform his - i suppose - own business.
17:30 mircea_popescu this is how science works!
17:30 mircea_popescu by letting people use good tools in ways that make sense to them, and them only.
17:31 mircea_popescu your job is merely to make sure the bal peen hammer is exceptionally ball peeny.
17:31 asciilifeform but it doesn't hurt to point out - once - that what the fella is holding is indeed his balls, and with other hand - hammer, nail.
17:31 asciilifeform just in case he doesn't grasp it.
17:31 mircea_popescu well if you happen to read portuguese it is obvious from the deed he does so grasp it, i thought.
17:32 asciilifeform does it follow from the fact of him holding the balls'n'hammer that he grasps ?
17:32 mircea_popescu "infelizmente está fora da civilidade".
17:34 felipelalli ahaahahah :D
17:37 felipelalli this contract is fine to him (my counterpart "Rhama Bonitao"). I do not run any risk because I get him service first. So, the worst scenario is if I do not pay him, and he has a concrete proof that I promised to pay him. It works, I did it many times before.
17:37 felipelalli anyway, totally agreed with mircea_popescu
17:37 mircea_popescu also known as singularily opposable contracts or w/e you call declaratory contracts in english
17:37 felipelalli this contract is public but is not your business
17:38 felipelalli I didn't mean to be rude, I'm sorry. You can ask anything and I'll asnwer, feel free! :)
17:40 asciilifeform i fully grasp that it is none of my business
17:40 asciilifeform but i did wonder what felipelalli was trying to accomplish by deedbotting a transaction with a fella having no mathematical identity.
17:40 asciilifeform that's all.
17:41 * asciilifeform hands hammer back to felipelalli
17:44 felipelalli asciilifeform, thank you to worry! <3 :)
17:45 felipelalli Can I keep hammering the deedbot?
17:49 mircea_popescu in other unrelated historical bits,
17:49 mircea_popescu "Ya es tiempo de dejarnos de teorías, que 24 años de experiencia no han producido más que calamidades. Los hombres no viven de ilusiones, sino de hechos: ¿qué me importa que se me repita hasta la saciedad que vivo en un país de libertad si por el contrario se me oprime?... ¡Libertad! désela usted a un niño de tres años para que se entretenga por vía de diversión con un estuche de navajas de afeitar, y usted me con
17:49 mircea_popescu tará los resultados. ¡Libertad! Para que un hombre de honor se vea atacado por una prensa silenciosa, sin que haya leyes que lo protejan y si existen se hagan ilusorias. ¡Libertad! Para que si me dedico a cualquier género de la industria, venga una revolución que me destruya el trabajo de muchos años y la esperanza de dejar un par de bocados a mis hijos. ¡Libertad! Para que se me cargue de contribuciones a fin de pagar
17:49 mircea_popescu los inmensos gastos originados porque a cuatro ambiciosos se les antoja por vía de la especulación, hacer una revolución y quedar impunes. ¡Libertad! ¡Libertad!...Maldita sea la libertad, ni será el hijo de mi madre el que vaya a gozar de los beneficios que ella proporciona, hasta que no vea establecido un gobierno que los demagogos llamen tirano y me proteja contra los bienes que me brinda la actual libertad."
17:49 mircea_popescu jose de san martin (prolly my favourite south american) discussing the despotism of de rosas.
~ 1 hours ~
18:49 trinque !deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/830a8589-4b13-4ead-bba2-4d1e94345dab/
18:49 gribble Error: "deed" is not a valid command.
18:49 trinque ah I didn't release that code yet then
18:49 trinque o wait :p
18:50 trinque $deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/830a8589-4b13-4ead-bba2-4d1e94345dab/
18:50 deedbot gpg: BAD signature from "Felipe Micaroni Lalli (OTC bitcoin user felipelalli, btc address 1LipeR1AjHL6gwE7WQECW4a2H4tuqm768N) <micaroni@gmail.com>"
18:51 trinque huh weird
18:51 trinque I'll join the other one for now, but will probably get the above going this evening.
18:52 trinque $up deedbot-
18:52 deedbot deedbot- voiced for 30 minutes.
18:53 trinque deedbot- http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/830a8589-4b13-4ead-bba2-4d1e94345dab/
18:53 deedbot- rejected: 1
18:53 trinque ah I see what it is
18:53 davout trinque: utf8
18:53 TomServo Did assbot's WoT not get imported to deedbot?
18:53 trinque ben_vulpes: halp, need utf8 header
18:53 trinque davout: yar
18:54 trinque TomServo: yeah it did; you were just in there as lowercase
18:54 trinque I've yet to go back and make all the queries case insensitive
18:54 mod6 werd up
18:54 felipelalli this is a known old bug of wotpaste
18:54 felipelalli (the wrong header)
18:54 trinque felipelalli: put it on dpaste and feed via $deed as above
18:55 felipelalli sure, thank you!
18:55 davout trinque: same problem on bitbet's contract http://mpex.co/assets/s.bbet-2FB7B452.txt mircea_popescu's sig only verifies if utf8 is forced
18:55 trinque computers are hard
18:55 davout computers are racist
18:55 felipelalli deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1Y457VV.txt
18:55 deedbot- accepted: 1
18:55 trinque yeah or that
18:56 trinque felipelalli: if the deedbot- one is gone, that'll mean use $deed <deed-url> after that
18:56 davout obligatory http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/graphics/racistcomputers.jpg
18:56 felipelalli trinque, thank u
18:56 trinque davout: lol
18:56 trinque I bet he loves the iPad
18:57 trinque for science...
18:57 trinque $deed http://dpaste.com/1Y457VV.txt
18:57 deedbot Primary key fingerprint: 9E08 5248 33CB 3038 FDE3 85C5 4C0A FCCF ED5C DE14
18:58 davout mircea_popescu: so i'm in the process of updating the report
18:59 davout working on this 'add a house bets item on the liabilities side'
19:00 davout thing is i can't simply do 0.1 btc * number of outstanding bets because some of the house bets expenses have *already* been accounted against the shareholders
19:02 davout and just because the liabilities amount is reduced by the payments that are made back to the house does not imply the converse is true for house bets, as the 'house bet' expense has no particular reason to be accounted for in the same month the 'house bet winnings' are accounted for
19:04 davout so basically my point is that while i'm ok to add a bitbet liability to you for every bet that was seeded after the january report, every house bet that came before that was already paid for by the shareholders
19:06 davout in other words, yes, you have been floating this expense, but only until it was settled in a monthly report by deducting it from the profits you distributed to shareholders
~ 16 minutes ~
19:22 mircea_popescu davout> thing is i can't simply do 0.1 btc * number of outstanding bets because some of the house bets expenses have *already* been accounted against the shareholders << how and where ?
19:23 davout previous reports state house bets as an expense, this expense is in turn deducted from revenue and reduces the distributed profits to shareholders
19:23 mircea_popescu you mean feb report, prev report ?
19:24 davout i mean previous ones
19:24 mircea_popescu right, up to march 1st exclusive ?
19:24 davout if a bet was seeded in december it's already paid for by shareholders, if a bet's been seeded mid february you have been floating it
19:25 mircea_popescu this is correct.
19:25 davout anything bet seeding that came after the january report should be accounted as a liability to you
19:25 mod6 does anyone know python and wanna give me like 5 minutes of help?
19:25 davout s/anything/any/
19:25 mircea_popescu re gpg verification : yeah, guy's name, special char.
19:25 mircea_popescu davout as a liability to bitbet / owed to me you mean ?
19:26 davout i did not say 'liability to bitbet', did i?
19:27 mircea_popescu the use of to is confusing, but okies!
19:28 davout in other words, for every bet that was seeded after the jan. report i owe you .1 btc
19:28 davout sounds right?
19:28 mircea_popescu it does.
19:28 davout this makes me happy
19:28 mircea_popescu you're easy to please :)
19:28 davout i see the end of the tunnel
19:29 davout so the next question is obviously, 'which bets have been seeded after the january report?'
19:29 davout or more precisely, which bet seedings have not been accounted fo ryet
19:31 davout i can simply compare the minimum bet timestamp for each proposal with februart fouth
19:31 davout *fourth
19:31 mircea_popescu 1st
19:31 davout no scratch that, the number of 'accepted bets' as reported in the february statement would do
19:32 mircea_popescu since no further accepted after ?
19:32 davout march report makes no mention of any such accepted proposals
19:33 mircea_popescu Bet started:1 month 4 days ago (11-03-2016) << i think p
19:33 davout but i guess i'd have to double check against the actual data i have in the DB, might as well go and find the information there directly
19:33 mircea_popescu i think some got accepted in march also
19:34 davout ok, i'll go for checking the DB then
19:34 mircea_popescu but yes i think end of tunnel is right. by now we're discussing bitcents, it's pretty well pinned down.
19:35 davout they're important, after all bitcoins are made of bitcents
19:35 mircea_popescu tru
19:35 mod6 bitcoins are made of integers
19:38 davout serious shane is so serious
19:38 mod6 haha
19:39 mod6 i was just pointing back to last weeks conversation about the nature of a coin. a float, 'tis not. :]
19:39 mircea_popescu it's because of all that kinkley he drinks
19:39 mircea_popescu makes his face all astringented.
19:40 * mod6 goes back to wrestling with python
19:41 mircea_popescu mod6 btw, dun ask to ask! i dunno python that well, but mebbe if i knew what you needed ?
19:41 shinohai Maybe he's wrestling with wrong python and should seek professional female help :D
19:42 mircea_popescu that he has.
19:44 mod6 i need someone to help me turn this into something that works:
19:44 mod6 http://pit-claudel.fr/clement/blog/generating-uniformly-random-data-from-skewed-input-biased-coins-loaded-dice-skew-correction-and-the-von-neumann-extractor/
19:44 mod6 best I can seem to get is this:
19:44 mod6 NameError: global name 'sequences' is not defined
19:45 mircea_popescu sounds like a scoping issue
19:45 mod6 yeah. i dunno anything about python, or even how to really run this thing properly.
19:46 mircea_popescu maybe add some self. in defs ?
19:46 mircea_popescu ie, instead of def sequences(blabla) def self.sequences(blabla)
19:47 trinque mod6: maybe the guy meant "collections" ?
19:47 trinque from collections import index
19:47 trinque ah shit what was it, I just did it
19:48 trinque the above doesn't work
19:48 mircea_popescu mod6 if you actually care enough, iirc the site had a decent manual/tutorial
19:48 mircea_popescu python.org
19:49 mod6 i actually don't care /that/ much. im trying to wrap my brain around the truth table for the d6, with three rolls.
19:49 mod6 thought the program might help a bit.
19:49 mod6 cause really, i don't care baout the d6, i need to invent the table for d16
19:50 mircea_popescu dig through the guy's site also, he has various extensions/improvements discussed.
19:51 mod6 i guess it's just the same thing with more values, just was going to try to mod this guys shit to see if I did it right so i dont shoot myself in the face
19:51 mod6 i'll probably just re-write it in perl. sigh. fucking hate python.
19:52 trinque could be the index builtin on list, and he didn't bother to show that list in his code
19:52 trinque sequences being a global list
19:52 mod6 its like the worst of all worlds, some OO, some lisp, some indentation bullshit.
19:52 trinque it's pretty bad.
19:52 davout mod6: try riby!
19:52 davout *ruby
19:52 * davout ducks
19:52 trinque that's a demerit
19:53 mod6 heheh. that's pretty ugly there too.
19:53 mod6 i'll just write one up tonight. i just tried to cheat a bit by using this one.
19:55 trinque I learned recently that the "inventor" of ruby is a japanese mormon
19:55 trinque somehow that fits
20:06 davout a mormon?
20:06 davout didn't know
20:08 trinque https://www.mormon.org/matz
20:13 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: (message to proberz : probe that is visible to the motherfucking naked eye , regardless of how otherwise original, is an insult to the intelligence of a shoe) << qntra was hit hard with a comment spam cannon. Will take time to clean up approval que.
20:15 mod6 <+trinque> somehow that fits << haha
20:15 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: sbp: i recommend drinking less - srsly, it worked for some of the folks here... << That step 1
20:15 shinohai After Birthday celebrations tomorrow I shall drink no more for a while.
20:16 * shinohai just can't quit.
20:19 asciilifeform in other 'news',
20:19 asciilifeform my 'ibm model F 122-key' is here.
20:19 asciilifeform 1/2 cm thick steel pedestal and all.
20:19 asciilifeform the springs, would you believe, sound like shamisen strings when pressed.
20:20 asciilifeform smoothest action i've ever felt.
↖
20:27 ben_vulpes trinque: roger, will do
20:28 mod6 oooh, i get this decision table now. if r1=4, r2=6, r3=3, then i yield a final value of 2.
20:28 mod6 why was that so hard? i think the example is maybe just not very well, um, explained? i dunno
20:28 mod6 ive been lookin at this for /way/ too long.
20:35 BingoBoingo 188.143.234.* and 188.143.232.* shame on you
20:35 shinohai Also BingoBoingo thanks for preserving the "Shapeshit" spelling as I intended.
20:35 BingoBoingo no problem
20:35 shinohai ^__________^
20:36 asciilifeform mod6: what are you trying to do ?
20:42 mod6 ok you that decision table for a d6 here: http://pit-claudel.fr/clement/blog/generating-uniformly-random-data-from-skewed-input-biased-coins-loaded-dice-skew-correction-and-the-von-neumann-extractor/
20:43 mod6 i need to make one for a d16
20:44 mod6 the first step was understanding wtf was going on with the arrows going up/down or up/down/down, up/up/down, down/up/up, down/down/up
20:44 mod6 or w/e
20:44 mod6 now just need to expand for 16
20:46 deedbot- [Qntra] Bitcoin Difficult Increased ~7.09% - http://qntra.net/2016/04/bitcoin-difficult-increased-7-09/
20:50 mod6 dang
21:04 davout BingoBoingo: s/Difficult/Difficulty/
21:04 davout mircea_popescu: report update is up
21:04 mod6 I think this would work right? http://dpaste.com/1GP2X8Q.txt
21:05 BingoBoingo ty Monsieur Francois
21:07 davout makes me think about señor chang
21:07 davout EL TIGRE
21:08 mircea_popescu davout so we're at
21:08 mircea_popescu ;;google 134.44868891 -.8
21:08 gribble No matches found.
21:08 mircea_popescu ;;caulk 134.44868891 -.8
21:08 davout lol
21:08 gribble Error: "caulk" is not a valid command.
21:08 mircea_popescu ffs.
21:08 mircea_popescu ;;calc 134.44868891 -.8
21:08 gribble Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
21:08 davout hahaha
21:08 mircea_popescu ;;calc 134.44868891 - 0.8
21:08 gribble 133.64868891
21:08 mircea_popescu rite ?
21:08 davout no
21:08 mircea_popescu ...
21:09 davout see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-14#1451749
21:09 a111 Logged on 2016-04-14 12:27 davout: ;;calc (1040.78385211 - 841.33337474) - 50 - (30.00357692 / 2)
21:09 BingoBoingo ;;cawk
21:09 gribble Error: "cawk" is not a valid command.
21:09 mircea_popescu ;;calc 199.45047737 - 0.8 - 50 - ((30.00357692 -0.8)/ 2)
21:09 gribble Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
21:09 mircea_popescu what the everloving
21:09 mircea_popescu ;;calc 199.45047737 - 0.8 - 50 - (30.00357692 -0.8)/ 2
21:09 gribble Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
21:10 mircea_popescu 134.04868891 in any case
21:10 davout ;;calc (1040.78385211 - 841.33337474) - 50 - (29.20357692 / 2) - 0.8
21:10 gribble 134.04868891
21:10 mircea_popescu hey frenchy, you do your math i do mine!
21:10 davout mircea_popescu: see? that's how it's done, just use numbers. NUM- BERS.
21:10 mircea_popescu dumbers!
21:11 mircea_popescu anyway, aite, will be sending it tomorrow. same addy as in your original deed.
21:11 billy_mays but wait, there is more!
21:11 mircea_popescu o.O
21:12 mircea_popescu there was enough of that!
21:12 davout kakobrekla informs me he has something to bring up, details to follow
21:13 davout either way, i'm going to bed, it's late here
21:13 mircea_popescu later
21:14 mod6 night davout
21:26 mod6 Anyway, so i was re-reading through http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/
21:28 mod6 If we basically just tagged bitcoin in V as is today, then we could possibly start working on the implementation of the prereqs above.
21:29 mod6 I personally have hardly even begun to look at what/where/how these code changes would need to take place in the current cod.
21:29 mod6 *code
21:30 mircea_popescu mod6 well one major question to be decided is : obviously there's the project of cleaning up extant bitcoin code ; by the discussion re july of forks, there's also the proposal to start a separate project to make an "ideal bitcoin". this proposal wasn't ever seriously discussed and i dunno that it ever was actually accepted as such.
21:30 mod6 But starting might just be half the battle. We'd have to go through a process of perhaps identifiying first, where to swap out SHA2-256 for SHA3-512. (whatever needs to be included, what structures and fields need to be lengthened, etc)
21:31 mircea_popescu so one thing is you know, to come to some sort of decision on what to do there. strategy-wise, as it were.
21:31 mircea_popescu the other point, whatever may be decided on the previous point, is to make some sort of roadmap or even ideally graph of parts and then see who can do what and so on
21:31 mircea_popescu they're pretty large issues.
21:33 mircea_popescu but you know, i think blind enthusiasm has carried us about as far as it will ; moreover, everything has its time and place.
21:33 mod6 fair enough.
21:33 mircea_popescu can't sprint everything forever, it's just not possibru.
21:36 mod6 so i guess there are short term and long term initiatives: Short term (for this summer, 12 weeks from now) it might suit us well to have a SHA3 bitcoin in our back pocket. And with some mapped/planned out work there, would still be a long shot, but possible, I suppose. Long term (1+ year or more?), concurrently there could be work towards an actual hardfork with an ideal bitcoin written in something, such
21:36 mod6 as Ada. We've all kicked it around a bunch about the lang, and I'm not sure we're all sold on Ada. But seems like a step in the correct direction overall.
21:37 mircea_popescu well, there's two classes of arguments pro iB that i can readily see. one's very fundamental : the code is shit, the "grandfather pistols" thing will only go so far, it is by its nature finite in utility. eventually the trhing will have to be redone well. it is, after all, a misuded prototype.
21:38 mircea_popescu the other's very practical : every halving is a difficult time for bitcoin. it's a more or less homeostatic structure, which means that with some periodicity will go into crisis. you don't know what crisis will rupture a vessel and give it an aneurism, but it is indubitable that the quality of alternative on offer is the best measure of its lfie expectancy.
21:39 mircea_popescu in this sense, a good iB in back pocket as you say plays the strategic role of "fleet in being", in that it protects the old shit from too violent a crisis.
21:39 mircea_popescu in the sense that the incentives of the vermin are modified by its projection. vermin being definitionally captive subject to incentive potential.
21:40 mircea_popescu (yes asciilifeform, "captive by local minima" is not the definition of adulthood, or of civilisation. it is the definition of rat.)
21:40 asciilifeform flea, not rat
21:40 mircea_popescu rat.
21:40 asciilifeform rats occasionally get on boats.
21:40 mircea_popescu for this reason tho.
21:41 mircea_popescu there's a reason why the sort of guy that can't pass the simplest test of manhood, that pons asinorum known as the prisoner's dilemma is known as a rat.
21:41 asciilifeform ah that rat.
21:42 asciilifeform anyway if you ain't captive your pit aint deep enough, is what i say.
21:42 asciilifeform but we could go on re this forever.
21:42 mircea_popescu anyway, back to the iB : there's a number of very valuable ideas, at least in my eyes, that discussion throughout has brought out. yes the sha thing discussed on trilema ; also - ada, linked into the c, and slowly driving out the c, much in the way the vermin try to drive out say x11 or rsa etc.
21:42 mircea_popescu there's also - a good db. and other things. a list should prolly be made.
21:42 mod6 im missing something, what is 'iB'?
21:42 asciilifeform i suppose possibly it might help if i reveal what i had in mind.
21:42 mircea_popescu mod6 "ideal Bitcoin", ie the 2nd thing. i dunno just came up with it
21:42 mircea_popescu for need of a name.
21:43 mod6 ah, ok got it.
21:43 asciilifeform i've been playing with a bare-metal (x86) ada build chain.
21:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform to no one's surprise.
21:43 asciilifeform console i/o to serial (emulated, presently)
21:43 mircea_popescu what the fuck else was the incentive there.
21:43 asciilifeform objective is to let go of the whole shitstack.
21:43 mircea_popescu right.
21:44 mircea_popescu what, whne you were raving about ada the specified, what did you think i read, exactly this, "oh, he hopes and wills to make the whole chain"
21:44 asciilifeform presently i can load/store disk blox.
21:44 mircea_popescu it actually worx ?
21:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu always grasps what i mean.
21:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for a very narrow 'worx'
21:45 mircea_popescu only when you mean something smart :D
21:45 mircea_popescu so yeah, ada is certainly a good thing in that pot.
21:45 asciilifeform 512b blox. in, out.
21:45 mircea_popescu with any luck, all the way to verilog.
21:46 asciilifeform next thing will be to port my rtlink nic driver to ada (with minimum of asm)
21:46 asciilifeform then we can actually speak of useful wurk
21:46 asciilifeform the nifty thing is that ada standard specifies own scheduler.
21:47 mircea_popescu of course the less nifty thing is that whether this entire pile actually works or collapses under its own haskellweight is an unknown.
21:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what'd that look like ?
21:47 asciilifeform there isn't, note, a haskellian runtime in the thing
21:47 mircea_popescu i mean something peculiar. not of the thing itself, but of the effect it has on heads.
21:47 asciilifeform it builds to a traditional binary, like any other gcc.
21:48 asciilifeform ah you were thinking of complexity collapse.
21:48 mircea_popescu of that particular kind. yes.
21:48 asciilifeform this will depend on ~people~
21:48 mod6 Ok, so i had to re-read all of that so im finally caught up here.. i didn't even consider interleaving ada with C really. i dunno why, i was just thinking it would just be its own separate deal.
21:48 mircea_popescu the haskellweight of a project, how likely it is to suck brains and ideas into a black hole of nock.
21:48 mircea_popescu mod6 that was the major point , that they are miscible. very rarely you get so lucky, that you can add icecream to shit,
21:49 mircea_popescu and then gradually push shit out.
21:49 mod6 I suppose that makes sense that parts could be re-written async ... ^ this right.
21:49 mircea_popescu right.
21:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: considering that ada uses no peculiar ('functional') abstractions, and is pretty much a c with 'bdsm'-restrictive pointer mechanics and hard bounds checking - the nock thing is not in the mix
21:49 mod6 sort of like we were talkin about with Scheme, etc.
↖
21:49 mod6 ok
21:49 * mod6 thinks.
21:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i follow the theory of it, or else i'd be covered in liver spots.
21:49 mircea_popescu practice is always its own thing tho. we see.
21:50 asciilifeform the one risk is that folks might get carried away with the 'belts and suspenders' and write some very slow code (where there are type predicated on everything, etc.)
21:50 mod6 Then, i think my initial still holds. Short term C releated work, if it can even be done in time. And meanwhile, new icecream replacing dogshit.
21:51 mircea_popescu mod6 you understand what i mean by "fleet in being" ?
21:51 mod6 not exactly.
21:52 mod6 oooh
21:52 mod6 yeah, i read about this before.
21:52 mircea_popescu ok, it's a concept from maritime strategy, that meanwhile took over mainstream. the idea is that if you have one big battleship, and the enemy has three, you are ill advised to go into battle. because if you sink two, and they sink yours
21:52 mod6 "In naval warfare, a "fleet in being" is a naval force that extends a controlling influence without ever leaving port."
21:52 mircea_popescu you have created this situation when the enemy has one... relatively infinitely large battleship.
21:52 mircea_popescu instead, you keep your battleship in port. this ties down the enemy, and they can't go about doing their shit normally
21:52 mircea_popescu they have to keep accounting for your potential activities. hence the "in being" part.
21:53 mircea_popescu \this can end up costing, by the end of the war, way the fuck more than their battleships were wortjh in the first place.
21:53 mircea_popescu it's a basic approach to leveraging local superiority into actual total value.
21:53 asciilifeform sorta the 19th c. variant of the specificity-of-diddling thing.
21:53 mircea_popescu pretty much.
21:54 mircea_popescu so in this sense, active development of an iB is actually useful beyond its use.
21:54 mircea_popescu mod6 you follow the logic here ?
21:54 mod6 yeah, i think so.
21:54 asciilifeform in the past i referred to such items as 'parachute'
21:54 asciilifeform i keep a number of'em around
21:54 asciilifeform and did not bother to describe all of them here
21:54 asciilifeform (not all are interesting to all folks)
21:55 mircea_popescu mod6 like i pointed out to davout in the middle of that heated discussion re how things work, this is one of those things that deal with the negative of "works"
21:55 mircea_popescu anyway.
21:56 mod6 So, we build a new battleship, and keep it in port. This will make 'em bleed through the purse.
21:57 asciilifeform my understanding is that this role, to the extent it was filled by anything, was previously filled by mpb.
21:57 mircea_popescu if we are in a position to say "we don't want a fork - but if you do, THIS fork will prevaly, no matter what you do, because it actually is the tech schelling point" then that's the end of that.
21:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform mpb is creaking at the seams.
21:57 mircea_popescu i am not made of infinity.
21:57 asciilifeform i recall this. it is rather like 'cruiser aurora', bottom - is of cement
21:58 mircea_popescu and as the idiots keep investing themselves, no matter how ineptly, they'll eventually build a shitpile large enough, i suspect.
21:59 mod6 anyway, this seems to make some stategic sense to me.
22:00 mircea_popescu i guess one good move, and very foundation-like, would be to make lists of what we want, both for cB [cleanning Bitcoin] and iB [ideal Bitcoin]
22:00 mircea_popescu something beyond the very summary skeletons discussed in chat prior and even further summarized above.
22:01 asciilifeform would help also to nail down the exact cryptomechanics of a viable 'iB'
22:01 asciilifeform (rsa? cs?)
22:01 mircea_popescu myeah.
22:01 mircea_popescu i don't think there's anything wrong with proper, full rsa (as opposed to the neutered version implemented by pgp)
22:01 asciilifeform there is the one thing.
22:02 mircea_popescu myeah.
22:02 asciilifeform (the utter inefficacy of all of the padding schemes, hence cs)
22:02 mircea_popescu i don't know there's a better alternative than cs.
22:02 asciilifeform i personally do not have one.
22:02 mircea_popescu of course, the discussion re cipher composition is herein included by reference.
22:02 asciilifeform so long as diffie-hellman problem stands up, cs stands.
22:03 mod6 i hope not, you got paid for cs submission!
22:03 mircea_popescu no he didn't ?
22:03 asciilifeform mod6: i must point out that i was not paid
22:03 asciilifeform because it is not time.
22:03 mod6 oh, thought that you got the 10 BTC?
22:03 asciilifeform nope.
22:03 mircea_popescu eventually, but not jetzt
22:03 mod6 oh my bad
22:03 asciilifeform we settled, iirc, that whoever shows up with ~working~ widget, gets the prize.
22:03 mod6 Ah
22:04 asciilifeform then i went off into my pit to produce a cstron.
22:04 asciilifeform pit - is deep.
22:04 mircea_popescu anyway, making a list of all the things seems paramount
22:04 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> i guess one good move, and very foundation-like, would be to make lists of what we want, both for cB [cleanning Bitcoin] and iB [ideal Bitcoin] << ok so this is a start.
22:04 mircea_popescu impossible to organize activity otherwise ; or for that matter to maintain any semblance of discipline or morale.
22:05 mod6 This is something that ben and I can put together.
22:06 mircea_popescu once it gets started it can be snowballed by chan discussion even.
22:06 mod6 sure.
22:07 BingoBoingo Iterlude from the mines: "During the 9/11 attacks, more people died than should have because the obese people in the buildings could not move down 20 flights of stairs as fast as needed. FACT. Obese people moving slow (as fast as they can) in a burning building stairwell absolutely can cause people to not make it out alive. This is the most triggering one for me. I'm one of those people who volunteered in my office to help people escape
22:07 BingoBoingo in case of fire, and during the last drill (my building is only four stories for fucks sake) an obese coworker was out of breath and had to stop half-way with a huge line of people behind her - if this was a real emergency, I'm sorry, but I'm gunna gunt punt that woman to ensure everyone can make it out alive." https://archive.is/7ObHD
22:08 mod6 I think this is a good stopping point for today probably. Plenty of food for thought. Getting the list together is a small enough chunk to get us started.
22:08 mircea_popescu word.
22:09 mod6 I'll start putting this together, let's check back in on where I'm at say, mid-next week.
22:09 mod6 Next friday checkpoint at the latest. Even if it's just a quick update.
22:09 mircea_popescu aite
22:10 mod6 anyway, did anyone else rip off that guys Perl CS implementation from his university paper and get it to work?
22:10 mod6 I got it to work, kinda sorta.
22:10 mod6 It was abomitable, though.
22:11 mod6 I think it would encrypt a string. Then decrypt it, but it wouldn't/couldn't take any different input. haha.
22:12 mircea_popescu my perl is marginal
22:12 mod6 played with it for an evening or something. this was like right around the time of the contest.
22:12 mod6 not that its useful, just was curious if anyone else saw it
22:14 asciilifeform mod6: i saw it. not particularly useful.
22:14 * asciilifeform bbl, food
22:14 mod6 ya aight.
22:15 mod6 mircea_popescu: so they've got a lot of cattle in .ar then?
22:15 mod6 I thought you were saying once that it was mostly like soy farming or w/e?
22:15 mod6 or how did that go?
22:15 mircea_popescu historically, argentina was built by the prussian market for leather.
22:16 mircea_popescu but these days, they mostly do soy. less skilled labour involved, and they're idiots.
22:17 BingoBoingo Is there actually labor in soy beyond maintaining the machinery? Soy is hella mechanized here.
22:18 mircea_popescu not much, no.
22:19 * BingoBoingo would not be surprised if there were some soy farmers out there who had not intentionally touched a bean.
22:20 mod6 i guess it does seem like maybe the terrain out there would be good for grazing. kinda like the mid-west used to be without the fences. ala kansas, oklahoma, texas circa 1800-1880
22:20 mircea_popescu yeah.
22:20 mircea_popescu but you can't ranch without cowboys ; and argentines are truly retarded.
22:21 mircea_popescu as the old guys die, there's no young guys to replace them.
22:21 BingoBoingo So that's where the "Argentine Cows ranch themselves" comes from.
22:21 mod6 no cojones?
22:21 mircea_popescu eh, they all wanna be carrie bradshaw. except they don't even put as much effort into it as the average midwestern hayseed chick
22:21 mircea_popescu that at least TRIES to hide her hick accent.
22:30 mircea_popescu mod6 but if you ever wanna retire, could prolly buy a thousand acres in cordoba and get a nice ranch going. possibly for less than what retirement costs in the us.
22:30 mod6 now that is a solid idea
22:31 mod6 i'd love that shit i bet
22:31 mircea_popescu it's really a very mild, slightly drier arizona
22:32 mod6 :]
~ 33 minutes ~
23:05 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
23:06 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 425.0, vol: 3632.36413865 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 420.551, vol: 4578.73019 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 428.4, vol: 5940.73572926 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 426.629766, vol: 26549.68400000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 425.9, vol: 532.21485511 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 427.633725, vol: 46.73936602 | Volume-weighted last average: 426.058602215
~ 42 minutes ~
23:48 punkman https://mastermind.atavist.com/he-got-greedy
23:57 mircea_popescu ;;later tell adlai that inside man crap's unwatchable.
23:57 gribble The operation succeeded.
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