Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-03-28 | 2016-03-30 → ↓
00:00 phf fwiw lisp no consing strategy is same, i.e preallocate things
00:00 asciilifeform aha.
00:01 asciilifeform i wrote a good bit of this
00:01 asciilifeform the result, sadly, is distinctly 'un-lispy'
00:02 phf there's inherent divide between two strategies, anyone who claims bridging it is selling you something
00:02 asciilifeform quite !
00:02 asciilifeform as i described in #b-a
00:03 asciilifeform <asciilifeform> there are precisely TWO known sane approaches to programming a computer.
00:03 asciilifeform <asciilifeform> max dynamism or max static.
00:03 asciilifeform <asciilifeform> in-betweens are for the birdz.
00:03 mod6 ok, so ; new block is found. we serve the live block queue (size 64 blocks, oldest (height-wise) is in the front) and recycle the memory, appending it to the end of the free queue. we then serve the free-list queue, populate it with the data from the new block and append it to the live block list
00:03 mod6 ?
00:04 asciilifeform mod6: aha, essentially a traditional allocator with several distinct types of fixed-size blocks
00:04 mod6 two wheels, this would keep the overall footprint the same throughout.
00:04 asciilifeform sorta how 'malloc' normally works anyway
00:04 asciilifeform under the hood.
00:04 mod6 ah
00:04 asciilifeform except now you have to actually be conscious of it
00:05 asciilifeform rather than, to borrow mircea_popescu's old analogy, going about like idiot prole cow woman who 'falls pregnant whenever'
00:05 mod6 heheh
00:06 asciilifeform the c/unix malloc, that pretends to give you arbitrary blocks of N bytes on demand in O(1), is a pernicious fraud.
00:06 asciilifeform and not because it has to be free()'d and 'no one can possibly', but because of fragging.
00:08 * asciilifeform bbl.
00:11 mod6 aight, thx alf
~ 21 minutes ~
00:33 BingoBoingo dat hedge https://i.imgur.com/FFFKjmI.jpg
00:35 mod6 nice bush
~ 8 hours 1 minutes ~
08:36 asciilifeform industrial l0ltr0n1cs: http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/03/28/when-the-messenger-shoots-back/#comment-249
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
09:46 phf asciilifeform: https://github.com/cgwalters/git-evtag i know snore, but sort of follow up to recent git conversation
09:56 mircea_popescu ;;google site:trilema.com "la tati ni-i greu"
09:56 gribble Cum se suge pula - ghid pentru juma' de sex oral on Trilema - A ...: <http://trilema.com/cum-se-suge-pula-ghid-pentru-juma-de-sex-oral>
09:56 mircea_popescu lol.
09:57 mircea_popescu ro expression, literally "life's hard for all of us". really intraducible in its derisive superlative.
~ 42 minutes ~
10:40 asciilifeform Mar 29 09:46:10 <phf>asciilifeform: https://github.com/cgwalters/git-evtag i know snore, but sort of follow up to recent git conversation << extreme sn0resportz
10:40 asciilifeform git in my mind is inextricably linked with things i want to get away from and never see again.
10:41 asciilifeform it is in same category as, e.g., office coffee
10:48 mircea_popescu what's wrong with office coffee ?
10:49 deedbot- [Trilema] La tati ni-i greu, or "The pervy Romanians - etnobotanical study" - http://trilema.com/2016/la-tati-ni-i-greu-or-the-pervy-romanians-etnobotanical-study/
10:49 davout probably the 'office' part if i had to guess
10:49 asciilifeform well around here it comes from machine that takes plastic cartridges full of ??? and pisses out a dark and motor-oil-smelling fluid
10:50 asciilifeform there are a dozen types of shell, but the taste is always same
10:50 asciilifeform most american offices use these now because they NEVER need to be cleaned
10:50 davout ah yeah, american coffee...
10:50 asciilifeform the nozzle that pisses, is formed as part of the plastic cartridge when it ruptures
10:50 phf asciilifeform is like a study into usg foot soldier culture, sometimes i feel like he relishes in the role
10:50 asciilifeform phf: in prison one makes chess pieces from bread and piss, what else is there to do.
10:51 mircea_popescu oh that crap.
10:51 asciilifeform astonishing that i managed to get an irc terminal going here
10:51 asciilifeform it took some gymnastics
10:51 asciilifeform not because anyone censors the pipe, but because the pipe is so ~burpy~
10:51 mircea_popescu "office coffee" could also be fresh burmese brew by fresh burmese tits!
10:51 asciilifeform disconnects sockets every 10m or so
10:51 phf my building has a coffee machine downstairs, that is loaded, daily by a mexican team, with fresh beans bought from a reasonable supplier. the coffee is passable, but perhaps sounds like mana from heaven compared to "kurig" ors
10:51 * asciilifeform envious
10:53 asciilifeform davout: this is not even what you probably think of as 'american coffee', this is a level down still
10:53 asciilifeform i think the machine ~exists~ in order to make the gasoline-smelling 'starbux' swill taste great in comparison
10:53 mircea_popescu phf you have to have costa rica coffee before you may speak of coffee.
10:53 mircea_popescu it's like... i don't even know. i have it imported here.
10:53 asciilifeform pretty much whole office treks across the town to get it
10:53 asciilifeform instead of drinking the machine.
10:53 davout in french we refer to american coffee as 'jus de chaussettes', aka 'sock juice'
10:54 mircea_popescu in romanian, we call sodas "apa de la spalatul bomboanelor" ie, bonbon bathwater.
10:55 davout that's actually pretty cute
10:55 mircea_popescu mhm!
10:55 mircea_popescu can almost picture a bonbon in a tiny tub, rubbing his back with a tiny brush...
10:55 trinque asciilifeform: gotta get yourself a french press for the desk
10:55 mircea_popescu does it have lasers in it ?
10:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform can not buy any desk items lest they have lasers and no fans!
10:56 trinque it's silent at least !!11!
10:56 phf i briefly dated a jamaican girl in college whose grandfather had a coffee plantation, they sold most of it to roasters but roasted some for artisanal resale. i don't know if that was necessarily "best" coffee, but that's certainly not coffee i can forget
10:56 asciilifeform actually a few folks here have such things
10:56 mircea_popescu it's in the terms of his inheritance.
10:56 asciilifeform i can't be arsed.
10:56 mircea_popescu phf alrighty then!
10:57 asciilifeform but i'm beginning to appreciate the merits of the fancy cooking machines: while people use them, they can still count as 'work'
10:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i know the feeling. i drink coffee like i smoke, a pot a month. but i am blessed with the company of oyung ladies that are crazy for the stuff,
10:57 mircea_popescu and so like the bum living in the city and benefiting of the subway even if it couldn't be built on HIS tax receipts,
10:57 mircea_popescu i'm a coffee coneisseur by ricochet.
10:57 asciilifeform l0l neato.
10:57 asciilifeform i bet mircea_popescu still has his caffeine receptors.
10:58 mircea_popescu i have all the everythings i started with!
10:58 asciilifeform aha, that's what i meant
10:58 asciilifeform vs my old burned out carcass.
10:58 mircea_popescu i still have my foreskin attached, also. i am untouched by worldly corruptions as a young babe!
10:59 asciilifeform they didn't detach those where i'm from
10:59 asciilifeform ever.
10:59 mircea_popescu i don't mean circumcision. i mean the split that usually happens in uncircumcised males once they get into their own and vigurously fuck a damsel.
10:59 mircea_popescu at least for the lower class folk that dun wear condoms!
11:00 asciilifeform split?
11:00 asciilifeform do these folks fuck lawn mowers or what
11:00 asciilifeform blenders?
11:01 mircea_popescu well, young women. a bad habit, but very anglo.
11:02 mircea_popescu ;;google frenulum
11:02 gribble Frenulum of prepuce of penis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum_of_prepuce_of_penis>; Frenulum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum>; Frenulum of tongue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum_of_tongue>
11:02 mircea_popescu the penile anatomy is that the foreskin is connected to the glans by this skin fold.
11:03 * asciilifeform does not recall breaking such a part
11:04 mircea_popescu it bleeds copiously, so you'd recall.
11:04 asciilifeform but i suppose people are quite like chess pieces, in the sense of having plastic mold tabs
11:04 mircea_popescu ha.
11:04 mircea_popescu cunt.runs.on.perl!
11:06 asciilifeform somethinglikethat.
11:10 asciilifeform 10:49 <+deedbot-> [Trilema] La tati ni-i greu, or "The pervy Romanians - etnobotanical study" -
11:11 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/la-tati-ni-i-greu-or-the-pervy-romanians-etnobotanical-study/ <<l0l!
11:12 asciilifeform the 'nauceala' discussion brings to mind the 'hasna' thread
11:15 mircea_popescu aha.
~ 29 minutes ~
11:44 asciilifeform in other interesting nyooz, zoolag appears to be perma-blackholed.
11:45 ben_vulpes have you...turned your computer off and then on again?
11:45 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: l0l
11:45 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: this is not a box that gets turned off.
11:46 trinque unpossibru
11:53 phf run on a small nuclear reactor
11:54 deedbot- [Qntra] Iphone Circlejerk Ends With Status Quo Maintained For Now - http://qntra.net/2016/03/iphone-circlejerk-ends-with-status-quo-maintained-for-now/
11:55 phf that is not the precedent you're looking for
11:56 BingoBoingo What precedent?
11:57 phf should be in quotes, a hypothetical jedi mind trick brought to you by usg
11:58 phf i guess the attempt is to create controversy on account of everyone being weary of usg syndevs, "look! we have some non-compromised companies"
11:59 asciilifeform l0l
11:59 asciilifeform iirc this is what i said on day1
11:59 asciilifeform run moar crapple.
12:01 phf i wonder if the whole charade has anything do with growth of iphone adoption in china
12:02 asciilifeform in cn there is no serious dispute re master keys
12:04 BingoBoingo phf this social engineering strategy has a long history in USG kingdom. Invented by "St Louis Hegelians" who then moved to Harvard and infected USG. Favorite means of USG for getting desired outcome by letting crowd pick the narrative for how they got there.
12:05 asciilifeform https://mastermind.atavist.com/he-always-had-a-dark-side << lulz
12:06 asciilifeform ^ a 'newsweek-satoshi job' re truecrypt
12:06 BingoBoingo phf: Thing was a reaction the the civil war and proposed as a solution to avoiding civil wars while still allowing everything to appear contentious
12:09 phf BingoBoingo: i read your post
12:10 BingoBoingo phf: It desperately needs a followup addressing the 20th century evolution of the thing and the obfustication that was heaped upon it.
12:10 phf (http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2016/01/24/the-theoretical-foundation-of-social-engineering-practice/)
12:12 mircea_popescu o hey guise, we're ok to do all our terrorism on iphones now ?!
12:12 asciilifeform this was the basic objective, obvious to anyone with iq above bathwater temperature
12:12 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Nah, they got another party to unterrorize the ipnoHe
12:13 mircea_popescu oh
12:13 asciilifeform ^ last week's nyooz
12:13 mircea_popescu but we can still use iphone for terrorism yes ?
12:14 BingoBoingo mubbe
12:14 mircea_popescu asks every preppy 15yo derp with an iphone bought by helicopter mom and some equally derpy but "terrorist" friends & schoolmates.
12:14 mircea_popescu they choose not to run!
12:15 phf 9th european lisp symposium, three invited speakers "Coq, Julia and `complexity of lexical closures`" ffs
12:15 mircea_popescu who is julia ?
12:15 asciilifeform phf: it's been dead wood for yearz
12:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: haskellian masturbatron
12:15 asciilifeform i.e. a shitlang
12:15 phf http://julialang.org
12:15 mircea_popescu scheme-haskell eh ?
12:16 phf more like matlab/r
12:16 asciilifeform a shitlang.
12:16 mircea_popescu "I have recently looked at Julia, a new programming language developed at MIT that promises to be a dynamic programming language that is suitable for scientific computing with a high-performance implementation. "
12:16 phf for so can do SCIENCE
12:17 asciilifeform the language-of-the-day come-into-our-proprietary-shitlang-parlour-said-spider-to-fly folks have been much the same for two decades +.
12:17 mircea_popescu "uses a somewhat mainstream syntax rather than sexpr"
12:17 mircea_popescu also for maffs ?
12:17 asciilifeform for laffs.
12:18 phf thing is 8 years ago dylan people were absolutely trolled at ILC, now apparently it's ok to have julia talk as invited talk. gise gise it's like lisp but with modern mainstream everything
12:19 mircea_popescu o hey, it has php variables.
12:19 asciilifeform phf: naggum died
12:19 asciilifeform and so this.
12:19 phf for your sins
12:19 asciilifeform l0l
12:19 mircea_popescu "in julia, all mathematical operations are generic functions"
12:19 mircea_popescu AHAHAHAHAHA
12:19 mircea_popescu o god. why do people not go to primary school ?
12:20 phf i'm only hoping they mean they have proper numeric tower, rather then straight up "this plus can be anything"
12:21 mircea_popescu wait. i read it to mean that r-s theta is pre-built.
12:21 mircea_popescu and optimized
12:21 mircea_popescu FOR ALL CASES.
12:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: crapping out a shitlang and conning naive schmucks into writing programs in it is a time-hounoured way to cheaply score pseudo-relevance. sorta like a comp sci version of altcoinism.
12:21 mircea_popescu it IS after all both mathematical and an operation.
12:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nah this particular thing is likely the harmless and ordinary 'you can redefine the + sign to polymorph on type' as in cpp, commonlisp, ada, etc
12:22 asciilifeform so you can + , e.g., matrices, or bignums, or quaternions, or whatnot.
12:23 mircea_popescu so he means "the two basic arithmetic operands are polymorphic by type" rather than "all mathematical operations are generic functions".
12:23 phf common lisp doesn't let you redefine +, it does have somewhat sane numeric tower
12:23 asciilifeform phf: reader macro !
12:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what exactly is the meaning of "sum these three vectors" even ?
12:24 mircea_popescu "are they on a plane ?" "fu!"
12:24 phf asciilifeform: well, you don't have to go to that extreme, you can just import a symbol from own package and shadow cl:+ but that's not to be confused with builtin mechanism of "this function dispatches on many types"
12:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: vector addition commutes
12:25 mircea_popescu in some spaces!
12:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: generally folks program in euclidean space.
12:25 ben_vulpes "for quaternionlet!!!!"
12:25 mircea_popescu well yes generally folk have all sorts of baked in assumptions about all sorts of things,
12:25 mircea_popescu but this isn't addition's fault is it!
12:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: eulora lives where, in lobachevsky's space ?
12:26 mircea_popescu worse.
12:26 asciilifeform or in baked-assumption space
12:26 mircea_popescu did you see the horror of quality output ?
12:26 asciilifeform no, because i never played..?
12:26 asciilifeform hence my q
12:26 mircea_popescu was in the log, a second.
12:28 mircea_popescu http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-27.log.html#t16:55:13
12:28 mircea_popescu so the problem there is : me and her, crafters of different skills, are trying to figure out how the game computes the output quality of a crafting process.
12:28 mircea_popescu it's directly evident the quality of recipe used ; and the quality of the bundle processed are factors.
12:28 mircea_popescu the numeric properties we have found, however, are out of sight.
12:29 asciilifeform the linked item may as well be in chinese
12:29 asciilifeform i have nfi what i am looking at.
12:29 mircea_popescu for instance : going from q50 to q200 blueprints doubles my output quality, from 132 to 264.
12:29 mircea_popescu it also doubles her, from 120 to 240.
12:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well... it's an industrial problem, here are your inputs, predict your outputs sorta thing.
12:30 asciilifeform didntcha write the thing?
12:30 mircea_popescu so ?
12:30 mircea_popescu i suffer from various mental afflictions.
12:31 phf in earlier years i wrote a scripting language where processes will go mad after running too long, i.e. each operation had a correctness probability that will be logarithmically adjust based on thread's age. a boolean expression that returns true at 1, will return false 30% of time at .7, etc. i vaguely suspect something like that was used to write eulora server
12:31 mircea_popescu phf don't forget crystal space.
12:31 asciilifeform i mean, what, mircea_popescu wrote the equation, then drank bottle of vodka, and forgot, and now is re-deriving it, playing against past self ??
12:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform compartimentalization is the best and most fun part of schizophrenia.
12:32 asciilifeform hey i played chess against self as a boy.
12:32 asciilifeform chronically
12:32 asciilifeform and kinda still doing this, right here.
12:32 mircea_popescu lol
12:32 asciilifeform see thread from 2wks ago.
12:32 mircea_popescu it's a wonder you don't play eulora, for these reasons.
12:33 asciilifeform i haven't a 3d card. or a 4:3 display. or time.
12:33 asciilifeform but if had these, would play..
12:33 mircea_popescu a right the 3d.
12:33 asciilifeform mainly - time
12:33 asciilifeform i could dig up a 4:3 panel and a gpu.
12:33 mircea_popescu it doesn't take much time to play. bots.
12:33 asciilifeform it takes time in the sense that i can't do it on the stake
12:34 mircea_popescu why not ?
12:34 mircea_popescu i have been playing it continuously for like 5-6 months now. just leave the bot what to do.
12:34 mircea_popescu DianaComan wrote a very dependable little fellow.
12:35 * asciilifeform pictures wheeling desktop into office - 'hey boss, this is so that i can...'
12:35 asciilifeform if you 'leave the bot..', aintcha playing 'core wars' ?
12:35 mircea_popescu why not leave it at home ?
12:36 asciilifeform then how are you 'playing' ?
12:36 DianaComan ftr asciilifeform I routinely leave it on while I sleep
12:36 asciilifeform i dun get it
12:36 mircea_popescu like everything else you do!
12:36 asciilifeform so it's a bot-vs-bot thing.
12:36 asciilifeform core warz!
12:36 DianaComan there is some very satisfying quality of "it works for me while I SLEEP" component to it too
12:36 mircea_popescu everything is a "bot vs bot" thing in that sense.
12:36 mircea_popescu internet, eh ?
12:36 DianaComan no, not really because the bot by itself is basically a dumb robot
12:37 DianaComan and ftr there is Birdman who managed to blow some 10mn using the bot in one night or so
12:37 mircea_popescu DianaComan actually i suppose one could try and make ai for foxybot
12:37 mircea_popescu prolly the auction/trade part the fastest approach for that.
12:37 DianaComan ah certainly, I even had that as first idea, ha
12:37 mircea_popescu it'd be pretty epic you know ? actually a very good ground for ai development, cuz so formalized and well scored.
12:37 DianaComan back when I was more hopeful that I actually have the time for at least half the ideas I had
12:37 mircea_popescu "make money".
12:38 DianaComan well, there is a lot to be said about intelligent mining/exploring too for sure
12:39 mircea_popescu for instance asciilifeform : last night i loaded up the 500 abandoned eggs DianaComan sold me, plus some shiny rock shards i had from before, also abandoned birds' nests and disgusting goop, put 500 recipes for flinty toothpaste in my mind, said /bot craft 500 and went to bed. this morning i had like 300 of the things.
12:39 DianaComan asciilifeform, the playing part is a. figuring out what is what and b. crafting your strategy and seeing how that compares (as results ie money) to those of the other players
12:39 DianaComan the bot simply automates the repetitive tasks
12:40 asciilifeform i think i used to play this
12:40 asciilifeform but it was with fake precious metals on $redactedidiottradingsite
12:40 asciilifeform it was very frustrating.
12:40 mircea_popescu of course jurov was working at a lisp-based text version of teh client.
12:40 DianaComan what was frustrating about it?
12:40 asciilifeform i also played it on demo-mpex for a while
12:40 asciilifeform which was great
12:40 mircea_popescu ah, not very related.
12:40 mircea_popescu you gotta mine your own shit, here.
12:41 asciilifeform but then my demo ran out and i got booted, and haven't played since)
12:43 mircea_popescu <DianaComan> and seeing how that compares (as results ie money) to those of the other players << this'd work if we even had any sort of a valuating function!
12:43 DianaComan well, so far it's very crude: are you in the positive or in the negative? then again, for comparing god help us given all the sikriz
12:44 DianaComan aaaand made my wonderful, shiny, new samovar, ha
12:44 mircea_popescu wd!
12:44 mircea_popescu and how do i calculate if im in positive or negative ?
12:44 DianaComan you can calc all your networth, no?
12:44 mircea_popescu how ?
12:44 DianaComan uhm? base value?
12:45 DianaComan a pain, but still
12:45 mircea_popescu ha!
12:45 mircea_popescu so you trade me your storage for bv ?
12:45 DianaComan no, but I use my bv as a baseline
12:45 mircea_popescu but what calculation is this then ?!
12:45 DianaComan I can compare that way
12:45 mircea_popescu isn't it meaningless ?
12:46 DianaComan meaningless for what?
12:46 DianaComan do you mean that bv is now meaningless?
12:46 mircea_popescu well suppose you have 1mn and 1 have 1mn. then tomorrow, you have 100 dead molluscs q 150 and i have 100 bng recipes, q 150.
12:46 mircea_popescu who is + and who is - ?
12:47 DianaComan I don't get what you are on really; I said: to see if I am positive or negative, not even comparing to you, just very crude: today my eulora account is worth 1btc, tomorrow it is worth 1.5btc or 0.5btc
12:47 DianaComan very very crude
12:48 mircea_popescu as a "bottom bound" sorta thing, sure.
12:48 DianaComan that is all we have!
12:48 mircea_popescu i blame the devs!
12:48 DianaComan bottoms abound or something
12:48 DianaComan the devils, yeah :))
12:57 hanbot lol
~ 19 minutes ~
13:17 phf i guess stephenson is on seveneves kick right now, which was pretty torturous reading, but probably goes really well with swj crowd
13:20 phf https://sidechannels.cr.yp.to/qkd/holographic-20160326.pdf has been making rounds
13:21 phf "Is the security of quantum cryptography guaranteed by the laws of physics?" i have no expertise to make a comment on it though
~ 21 minutes ~
13:43 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
13:43 gribble Current Blocks: 404860 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 355 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 24 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
13:58 asciilifeform phf: seveneves was a misery
↖
14:10 phf asciilifeform: guy had that sword simulation fiasco, perhaps he decided that perky nih bureaucrat types (with rigged tomboy/ethnic/... upbringing) are better future builders. could be worse, could've gone joss whedon altogether
~ 19 minutes ~
14:29 mircea_popescu there is no such thing as "quantum" cryptography.
14:30 mircea_popescu there's also no such thing as mathematical proof "by the law of physics".
14:32 mircea_popescu if the dumbass thing weren't a pdf, i might have made a trilema blast piece. which perhaps explains why it is pdf.
~ 17 minutes ~
14:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you didn't miss much
14:49 mircea_popescu surprise surprise!
14:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'quantum crypto' is a marketing term for that thing where you serve up random bits for otp using 'entangled photons'
14:50 mircea_popescu uh
14:50 mircea_popescu so non-random bits ?
14:50 asciilifeform random bits.
14:50 asciilifeform but same on two ends.
14:51 mircea_popescu is there some theorem of the unicity of entanglement that i missed ?
14:51 mircea_popescu granted, i've not gone to school at the premier lightbulb lighting institution in the world.
14:52 asciilifeform http://www.nature.com/articles/srep20962 << summary.
14:52 mircea_popescu yes yes. lemme summarize the question. IF you can show that two particles are entangled, HOW do you show that you have ALL the entangled particles in your control, for an entangla-tuple.
14:53 asciilifeform you don't, it's a sc4m
14:53 mircea_popescu "experimental demonstration", for mercy.
14:54 phf http://paste.lisp.org/display/311819/raw <- for pdfless
14:55 mircea_popescu "entanglement is a key resource in the research field of quantum information"
14:56 mircea_popescu why do they keep doing this.
14:56 pete_dushenski is cheep cheep ?
14:56 mircea_popescu it's like fucking politicians "thinking". really, does "entanglement" have the STATUS of so and so ?
14:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: human shannonizers
14:57 mircea_popescu "poor black mothers are a key resource in the public money spending field of social services"
14:57 mircea_popescu EXACTLY the same shit.
14:57 mircea_popescu and exactly continuing "shaka-maka is a major deity of great power"
14:58 phf used to be you get a little tick mark in red from your teacher for that sort of writing
14:58 asciilifeform phf: and later in life, from grant committee!1111
14:58 mircea_popescu yeah. over your skull.
14:59 phf asciilifeform: it's not a good kind of tick
14:59 mircea_popescu Abstract. It is often claimed that the security of theoretical quantum key distribution (QKD) is guaranteed by the laws of physics. However, this claim is content-free if the underlying definition of theoretical QKD is not actually compatible with the laws of physics. This paper observes that (1) the laws of physics pose serious obstacles to the security of QKD and (2) these laws are ignored in a
14:59 mircea_popescu ll QKD "security proofs".
14:59 mircea_popescu actually, the piece is by bernstein, and the abstract entirely vindicates me.
14:59 phf asciilifeform: somehow grant committee on the other hand eat dat shit up
15:00 phf hence post, paper is essentially "what you smoking" but written in academiceese
15:01 mircea_popescu phf yes, i am very happy with it. guy even includes a formal scheme of what the proof should look like, for the benefit of the titrated tykes.
15:01 mircea_popescu that is EXACTLY what it should motherfucking look like. assume l, assume p, therefore s.
15:10 mircea_popescu phf i'm very happy with the guy's statement, both in the fundamental rejection and in the discursive analysis of the claims aspects. more words may be added to beenfit peculiar idiots, but as it stands it contains the first 4k or so words one'd say on the topic.
15:10 mircea_popescu check it out alf, bernstein saved us some work!
15:11 asciilifeform as often happens.
15:11 mircea_popescu he works for the republic even as he doesn't know it. and the eu printing press is paying for it. wonder of wonders.
15:11 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu knew what pays for asciilifeform to work for republic, he'd toss his cookies
15:13 mircea_popescu lol are you publishing inept quyantum blabla pieces under a chinese pseudonym ?
15:13 asciilifeform not quite.
15:13 mircea_popescu at any rate : it is immensely more difficult to actually make a physical proof than the scheme detailed by bernstein immediately makes apparent.
15:14 mircea_popescu to best illustrate this, perhaps : there is nothing in newtonian mechanics that ACTUALLY precludes quantum mechanics.
15:14 mircea_popescu nevertheless, an array of learned gents THOUGHT SO.
15:14 mircea_popescu making negative statements on the basis of positively established physical laws is the hardest task available.
15:18 mircea_popescu pretty much the only such [class of] statement comes from the laws of thermodynamics (and their mirrors in other fields), which are some of the very few fortunate cases where an actual bound is offered (see, by the way, feynman's excellent introduction in all this, with the reversible and irreversible machines etc), and so negative statements can be had.
15:19 mircea_popescu even leaving aside that people are still enthusiastically building perpetuum-organ-pumpmobile to this very day ; what practical use are they ?
15:20 mircea_popescu by which i mean that a) all use is already in use - sure, an ant can't eat you, because of it - but you kinda already both know and use this and b) all uses not already in use are monstrously cataclysmic and temporally unapproachable. so the kelvin death, really ? oooo, neat, lemme make that into a doorlock!
15:21 asciilifeform waiwut
15:21 mircea_popescu where ?
15:22 asciilifeform last para
15:22 mircea_popescu ima need more than that!
15:22 asciilifeform 'why an ant can't eat you... already in use' and 'kelvin death ... door lock'
15:22 mircea_popescu mk lemme restate.
15:23 mircea_popescu the already very limited class of negative statements one can derive from physical laws is very fundamental, which in praxis severely limits your chances to do something clever.
15:24 asciilifeform there is a broader class of 'soft' negatives, e.g., 'you can X but it will take the mass of whole galaxy times 10^100' or whatnot.
15:25 mircea_popescu that there is.
15:25 mircea_popescu historically though, those tend to collapse inconveniently.
15:25 mircea_popescu they're all basically "you can cross the ocean - it will take six months"
15:25 asciilifeform sorta how we have in algorithmics, 'you can X but exponential'
15:32 mircea_popescu and as far as the perversion of nature goes - quantum mechanics actually by its very own rules provides guarantees that it would not be observable by newtonian means. with the very isolated exception of "light through multiple mosquito nets", and fine problems in the perceived orbits of inner planets, there's really nothing to even measure about qm misbehaviour, for purely qm reasons!
15:39 asciilifeform lulzily, in other nooze, classic #b-a is undergoing a very corpselike decomposition, fauna nobody even knew existed are devouring the carcass
15:40 pete_dushenski the 'mp as b/t-cell' theory is holding water is it
15:41 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i did warn.
15:41 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: and generally he never even needed to ~do~ anything, in real time, to keep'em out
15:41 PeterL meh, a couple people poked their heads in, no more than any other time in #b-a, I don't see any corpse-munching yet
15:41 pete_dushenski maybe tmsr just needed a stepping stone between itself and reddit
15:41 asciilifeform it was rather like the effect of the smell of cat, on vermin
15:42 asciilifeform PeterL: TaT + a buncha very peculiar visitors
~ 41 minutes ~
16:23 phf danielpbarron expressed some concern that the following part of yesterdays #b-a log was an accusation made by me against mircea_popescu. i don't see it, but perhaps i'm missing something? http://paste.lisp.org/display/311820/raw
16:34 trinque strikes me as more of an insult to alf's judgment really...
16:35 asciilifeform l0lwut
16:36 trinque I don't see the crazy myself, but perhaps "we're all mad here!"
16:36 asciilifeform 'madness?! this is sparta!'
16:37 mircea_popescu im too lazy to click.
16:37 DianaComan phf: i'm just saying there was plenty of opportunities to speak up against crazy in the past, and i saw plenty of crazy and i just thought everyone else took it in strides, as part of the game. apparently not! <- at a stretch crazy might be seen as an insult I suppose
16:38 DianaComan anyway, it made me curious: what's the crazy that was plenty and seen but not really digested as it turned out?
16:38 mircea_popescu what's "crazy" ? and plox don't tell me "that which diverges from the consensus of average derps", if possible.
16:38 asciilifeform ^
16:40 DianaComan that's phf's line from the fragment
16:40 phf well, danielpbarron is a religious fundamentalist. things that he says have to be recoded from his frame to my frame. if there's particularly prolonged periods of inability to map frames on my part, i can go "well this is crazy" and dismiss it as not bring relevant to me or i can spend significantly more effort to recode
16:40 phf *not being
16:40 mircea_popescu so "whatever i don't understand is crazy" ?
16:41 phf hmm
16:41 mircea_popescu makes sense - my "crazyness" is the direct cause of about 99.x% of the times slavegirls get their hide recolored.
16:41 asciilifeform generally i in particular don't 'this is crazy' unless 'this' pattern-matches known types of insanity in my buffer
16:41 mircea_popescu which i suppose is exactly the common understanding on the topic also!
16:41 phf well, no
16:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's "stupid" tho, neh ?
16:41 asciilifeform nah
16:42 asciilifeform 'stupid' is separate classifier
16:42 mircea_popescu (yes, when i say X is stupid what i mean is, exactly the matching above, except not regexp)
16:42 phf i don't understand it and it matches my construct of other person's framing
16:42 mircea_popescu (regexp matching usually gets called ridiculous)
16:42 mircea_popescu phf ie, whenever they had an idea ?
16:42 mircea_popescu and while at it, what's "a religious fundamentalist" ?
16:43 phf if danielpbarron started discussing finer points of the bible, like, say, specific choices of food for lent, the entire thread is "crazy"
16:43 mircea_popescu ie uninteresting ?
16:43 trinque "made me unconfortable because $unspecified"
16:44 mircea_popescu what if i started discussing finer points of random minutia, which is 2/3 of what i do anyway ?
16:44 danielpbarron what is lent? some catholic thin?
16:44 phf there's no judgement involved in calling something crazy!
16:44 mircea_popescu none was implied, but the question still stands.
16:44 asciilifeform ~= timecube.
16:44 phf danielpbarron: we have it in orthodox christianity. a period when you have to eat specific, reduced diet
16:45 trinque catholics say they gave up starbucks or something during
16:45 danielpbarron the Bible explicitely says to not forbid foods
16:45 phf i might find a discussion of lent dietary choices both interesting and not at all uncomfortable, but never the less they are "crazy" because the foundation is understood but not shared
16:45 asciilifeform ^
16:45 mircea_popescu are women definitionally crazy ?
16:46 phf by that definition yes!
16:46 mircea_popescu so then why would anyone protest crazy.
16:46 DianaComan hello, I'm Definitionally Crazy! :D
16:46 mircea_popescu lol
16:46 mircea_popescu not a bad nick, actually.
16:47 DianaComan not at all, no, I'll troll some with it irl
16:47 phf but so are most people, have specific set of priors that are non-sharable
16:47 mircea_popescu the crazy benefits of teh forum.
16:47 mircea_popescu phf that'd be the definition of the idiot.
16:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: eh only when they're thinking with their coprocessor
16:47 mircea_popescu if any of your priors are private, you're an idiot.
16:47 * asciilifeform often asks pet, 'what does your female coprocessor say to ..X..'
16:47 phf mircea_popescu: non transferable perhaps
16:47 mircea_popescu what's that ?
16:48 mircea_popescu i meant private quite in the public/private dichotomy contempated re the defintion of republic/forum.
16:48 mircea_popescu roughly equivalent to "private method" sense in coding.
16:48 phf right, when i say non-sharable, i don't mean, can't be verbalized
16:49 phf but rather, are non-trivial to transfer
16:49 asciilifeform soooo how is mircea_popescu's seeekrit minercollusion tip not 'private prior' ? what am i missing.
16:49 mircea_popescu me either. public is anything that can be stated in such a way so that another can recognize his own in the statement ; private is what can not.
16:49 asciilifeform so it is about 'can be stated' vs 'acid trip' ?
16:49 mircea_popescu quite.
16:49 asciilifeform rather than revealed / secret ?
16:50 phf well, danielpbarron believes in god, i (for sake of conversation) don't. that's a non-transferable prior, though of course both can be transferred through various involved mechanisms. indoctrination, dialogues, sudden insight
16:50 asciilifeform ..lsd
16:50 trinque nah, didn't see any gods in there myself.
16:50 danielpbarron the grace of God
16:50 mircea_popescu how is it non-transferrable on that grounds ?
16:51 phf mircea_popescu: i clarified it a bit with "non-trivial to transfer"
16:51 mircea_popescu i took a piss on a woman splayed in the backalleys of cairo. you did not. this is now not-transferrable ?!
16:51 mircea_popescu da fuck, you're not as slow as to not understand pissing, woman, backstreet or cairo./
16:52 phf that's a prior that can be easier transferred, but only to an extent. i've not had that specific experience, perhaps there's some insight there that i'm missing beyond the obvious
16:52 mircea_popescu as opposed to every time ever ?
16:52 phf but in this case priors are pissing, woman and backstreet of cairo
16:52 mircea_popescu "<mircea_popescu> at any rate : it is immensely more difficult to actually make a physical proof than the scheme detailed by bernstein immediately makes apparent."
16:53 mircea_popescu and another example recently in the logs too, actually one each day.
16:53 pete_dushenski asciilifeform often asks pet, 'what does your female coprocessor say to ..X..' << not a bad line, this.
16:53 asciilifeform 'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.' (tm) (r)
16:53 phf mircea_popescu: i didn't understand that last question
16:53 mircea_popescu phf "to an extent" is always the case.
16:53 mircea_popescu even mathematics is not obvious in ALL its implications.
16:53 phf ahah
16:54 asciilifeform 'obvious' is a term of art in mathematics.
16:54 asciilifeform unofficially.
16:54 mircea_popescu did he mean it like that ?
16:54 mircea_popescu but anyway, illustrations abound. from "the ratio of circumference to diameter" plouffe doesn't actually follow.
16:54 phf well, perhaps then transferability has some range values attached to it, "how much effort do i need to go through in order to grok"
16:54 mircea_popescu nevertheless, there it is.
16:55 mircea_popescu phf i hope you're not about to put magic numbers in the fucking code!
16:55 asciilifeform l0l!
16:55 phf mircea_popescu: laziness coefficient L
16:55 asciilifeform 'obvious' obviously is similar to 'lightweight' (for whom? elephant? ant?)
16:55 mircea_popescu mno. obvious does have a rigurous definition.
16:56 mircea_popescu "accessible through purely deductive means = obvious ; requiring some inductive reasoning = unobvious"
16:57 mircea_popescu this definition was obtained through negotiation in class ; teacher had speech mania of saying "obvious", we protested, eventually the poor guy couldn't be needled into the ground with it so this solution was agreed upon and upheld by all parties.
16:58 phf hmm
17:00 asciilifeform ergo mircea_popescu's privkey is obvious !1111
17:00 phf hmm
17:00 asciilifeform hey, accessible via deductive means!1111111
17:00 phf well, with that framing my definition of crazy is reduced to "what's not in groupthink"
17:01 phf because it comes out to something like, if the outcome of inductive reasoning differs from my (??) existing conclusions, than the outcome is crazy
17:04 asciilifeform the thing about 'crazy' is that, like bacterial infection, in practice it comes in a handful of varieties.
17:05 asciilifeform so i rarely find myself arithmetizing 'is this fella TOO FAR in the phase space of priors' or the like.
17:05 asciilifeform it is rarely necessary.
17:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how is it accessible deductively ?
17:18 mircea_popescu phf quite exactly. which is why i don't use the term nor think much of reasonings employing it as a rule.
17:21 mircea_popescu but in any case - "that's one crazy babe" is definitely complimentary.
17:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: p and q are right there in that n
17:22 asciilifeform so... deducible
17:22 asciilifeform no induction required.
17:22 mircea_popescu this does not mean that it is deductively accessible.
17:22 asciilifeform why not ?
17:23 mircea_popescu it is INDUCTIVELY accessible, if you have the time to induce all the needed factors. which we knew.
17:23 asciilifeform just need a few thousand years of deductatron
17:23 mircea_popescu well, why not. show the syllogism.
17:23 mircea_popescu that's inductron my dear alf.
17:23 asciilifeform on what planet?!
17:23 asciilifeform what is being inducted in trial division /
17:23 asciilifeform ?
17:25 mircea_popescu the 2nd lemma ?
17:25 mircea_popescu 1 : "p and q are in this n" ; 2 : "if q is this" then therefore 3. "p is n/this"
17:26 mircea_popescu that's a deduction. you keep changing 2, that's your inductive job.
17:26 * asciilifeform tightens gas mask
17:27 mircea_popescu you're thinking mathematical induction, perhaps, which has nothing to see with the logical concept of induction.
17:27 asciilifeform aha!
17:28 mircea_popescu an ancient, and rather netwonian explanation of the difference is that deduction is all from god ; and induction from sensata.
17:28 phf i assume you're talking not about a mechanism, but rather thinking process, in which case mp's private key is "known".
17:29 asciilifeform aha, in the sense where one can write a proggy, which is guaranteed to terminate in finite number of cycles, and will disgorge it.
17:30 mircea_popescu that proggy is still an exericse in inductive reasoning.
~ 46 minutes ~
18:16 shinohai ;;ticker --market all
18:16 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.16, vol: 5917.61726372 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.015, vol: 6908.18434 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 415.83, vol: 23507.15126121 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 2.39 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 415.329677, vol: 40388.02040000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 416.0, vol: 1230.45436811 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 418.5909, vol: 27.43503207 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
~ 34 minutes ~
18:50 BingoBoingo ;;more shinohai
18:50 gribble 415.363085921
~ 2 hours 18 minutes ~
21:08 asciilifeform !s foo
21:08 gribble Error: "s" is not a valid command.
21:09 asciilifeform still nope, huh.
21:09 asciilifeform this planetoid has no atmosphere!11111
21:18 phf asciilifeform: soon.
21:32 deedbot- [Trilema] The Savages - http://trilema.com/2016/the-savages/
21:41 mircea_popescu omaigerd grep teh local log
21:41 mircea_popescu didn't you say you wanted it to work like grep ?
21:41 asciilifeform this is what i normally do anyway
21:42 asciilifeform but can't ~link~ to this.
21:44 mircea_popescu ah yea.
21:45 asciilifeform for non-readers of old earthling #b-a , nyooz: cazalla +rated a buncha folks, said his goodbyes (he's become... a mineral prospector?)
21:45 mircea_popescu nowai ?
21:45 phf a very sensible decision
21:45 asciilifeform >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1442174 <<
21:46 mircea_popescu well, maybe he finds something.
~ 28 minutes ~
22:14 phf what's our preferred gcc version? i'm having a brain malfunction
22:18 phf hmmm rotor script actually uses 4.9, for some reason i though it was frozen around 4.2-4.3 but maybe i'm confusing it with eulora
~ 26 minutes ~
22:44 mats when he said he 'kitted out [his] detecting gear', i thought he bought a mounted MD/GPR thing for his vehicle
22:45 mats imagine my disappointment when the thing turns out to be handheld
22:56 mircea_popescu speaking of detecting gear, one of the best geek gotcha april fools thing would be to gift scam geiger counters to friends
22:56 mircea_popescu diddled so after an hour of fuctioning or so they go into detecting overdrive.
22:59 punkman even better, you gift them in christmans/newyears, have them be normal for 3 months
23:00 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: The old civil defense detectors tend behave pretty erratically
23:00 BingoBoingo mats: I similarly share your detector disappointment
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