#trilema | 2016-03-16

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433586 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411373

00:05

Logged on 16-03-2016 01:55:56; mircea_popescu: trinque iirc the bitcoin-derived one had two parts named 1 and 2 which you both need

00:05

Logged on 21-02-2016 00:38:10; asciilifeform: please throw out the old crud.

00:05

^ mandatory thread

00:05

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433600 << go ahead and plug the mains cord into your arse if you want. but then complain to somebody else, not to me, when the bulb doesn't light.

00:05

Logged on 16-03-2016 02:18:59; adlai: rules were made to be broken, buttons elbowed, and backs broken later.

00:06

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433613 << dingdingdingding we have a winner !11

00:06

Logged on 16-03-2016 02:53:58; phf: trinque: it's not about "not doing things", pressing tinyscheme genesis is just not the right way to get shiva

00:06

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433616 << aha

00:06

Logged on 16-03-2016 02:56:58; phf: trinque: as per that rant only things needing pressing are asciilifeform_shiva_part_1_of_2, asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 and asciilifeform_shiva_fix_flag_bug

00:08

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433455 << win.

00:08

Logged on 15-03-2016 19:45:51; deedbot-: [Trilema] xkcd - http://trilema.com/2016/xkcd/

00:09

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433530 << don't use the vendor's os. for anything. unless whole thing is a gag gift to an enemy.

00:09

Logged on 15-03-2016 23:05:37; BingoBoingo: I suspect it will have to graduate from a pogo to an "edgerouter lite" sometime in the next few months.

00:09

and even when you install own os, remember that there is no rng.

00:09

on the box.

00:09

as on most routers.

00:11

;;later tell mircea_popescu have a mindphuck - turns out google admits to having jacked up the cpu core count after the single solitary lee sedol win.

00:11

The operation succeeded.

00:15

asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken?

00:16

i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted

00:17

phf: strictly this, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421109

00:17

Logged on 03-03-2016 17:24:15; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet

00:17

kk

00:17

also http://www.amazon.com/The-Tunnels-Chi-Underground-Battlefields/dp/0891418695

00:17

Amazon.com: The Tunnels of Cu Chi: A Harrowing Account of America's Tunnel Rats in the Underground Battlefields of Vietnam (9780891418696): Tom Mangold: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1pKstuP )

00:18

*

asciilifeform buys.

00:20

it has a very pro-american/anti-communist bias (and there's a very surprising, complete lack of any SU mentions), but full of fascinating stories of vc tunnel based warfare

00:20

pretty much all american war lit reads like hans rudel

00:20

(at best)

00:25

it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics

~ 22 minutes ~

00:47

deedblog-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/

00:47

... ( http://bit.ly/1MlK9BJ )

00:48

oops

00:48

deedbot-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/

00:48

... ( http://bit.ly/1MlK9BJ )

00:48

Bad URL or network outage.

00:48

oops

00:48

deedbot-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/?raw=true

00:48

... ( http://bit.ly/1MlKbd0 )

00:48

accepted: 1

~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~

01:49

asciilifeform: were you starting with stage3 or earlier?

~ 44 minutes ~

02:34

;;later tell trinque deedbot- seems to have choked again

02:34

The operation succeeded.

02:35

*

adlai fantasizes that his 'jewish wit' was sharp enough to bridge the silicon sarchasm

02:46

hehe, maybe i just wrote the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienp4J3pW7U , robot edition

02:46

Monty Python's Flying Circus - World's Funniest Joke - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/22l5FA0 )

02:54

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433535 <<< did someone ring? someone need a loan?

02:54

Logged on 15-03-2016 23:10:27; mircea_popescu: o i forgot the jews, did i. THREE KINDS.

~ 31 minutes ~

03:26

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00042051 = 21.5301 BTC [-]

~ 1 hours 51 minutes ~

05:18

what's the custom for voicing freenode webchat nobodies? (at least replying with "who may you be" gets them to shut up.)

05:18

sorry massiro, should I have said "fix your connection"?

05:19

massiro: (and all future !up-please-ers): introduce yourself politely via pm, or ask somebody else.

05:19

!down adlai

05:28

!up massiro

05:29

Thank you.

05:32

I wanted to share info about the payout problem with Jeb-Bush-Nomination.

05:32

I wonder if you remember me... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-01-2016#1360779

05:32

Logged on 05-01-2016 05:55:53; massiro: The above site says the fee is 0.001 BTC so I think it is more than enough. Is this related to low/high S value problem?

05:32

I'm sad to hear the Jeb Bush payout accident...

05:33

I think it has something to do with the release of Core-0.12 (23rd February 2016).

05:33

And the spam attack revealed the problem.

05:34

First of all, Core-0.12 stops 0-fee tx relaying during spam attacks.

05:34

Secondly, Core-0.12 abolished mining 0-fee txes by default.

05:35

I have written a (small) wall of text at http://dpaste.com/22W2SCE, regarding the causes of the payout problem.

05:35

Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlSaYT )

05:38

Thank you BingoBoingo for giving me a voice!

05:38

yw

05:48

To adlai's asking, I'm an occasional bettor at bbet. Sorry to omit introducing about myself.

05:57

[fr.anco.is] X.EUR March 16th 2016 statement - http://fr.anco.is/2016/x-eur-march-16th-2016-statement/

~ 53 minutes ~

06:51

classic starts own node cartel: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4aiiuc/hey_core_you_can_waste_your_own_resources_now/

06:59

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433627 << nothing you said in the lengthy diatribe following had anything at all to see with the topic proposed!

06:59

Logged on 16-03-2016 04:03:22; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433572 << wat?!

07:03

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433648 << not afaik. if you don't count various people (including alf most recently) on various occasions throwing their hands up in disgust at the dysfunctional pos.

07:03

Logged on 16-03-2016 04:15:31; phf: asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken?

07:03

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433649 << for my own curiosity and the calibration of public judgement, how many lines, how many hours ? or something ?

07:03

Logged on 16-03-2016 04:16:51; phf: i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted

07:06

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433659 << i dunno why you think this odd. as far as my experience goes, 100% of english language literature (long before the days orwell quit and his naive, square jawed colonial subjects took over the pretense of empire) is exactly this "here are our assumptions, which clearly paint us as utterly and hopelessly stupid, let's lampshade it and carry on". i don't think by n

07:06

Logged on 16-03-2016 04:25:15; phf: it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics

07:06

ow english speaker even realises there's a disconnect between what the words mean and what his actions do.

07:07

which, ungenerously enough, seems just a step away from the breakdown specific to shitholes like argentina, where people altogether don't even comprehend words are in any sense meaningful, above and beyond the chirping captive populations of chickens do to reassure each other.

07:10

massiro it's an interesting theory, apart from the fact that nobody uses core in production, or has for many years now.

07:10

yes, various derps on poorly connected boxes still play with it. this is about as relevant to the discussion as considering what machines aspiring webcomic designers use when discussing pixar or something.

07:11

might as well say "it's because pogos", which would be equally flattering just in a different direction and otherwise equally afield.

07:12

lol. p. sure 90% of current pixar staff at one point were aspiring webcomic designers...

07:12

thestringpuller yes, but they don't come with their own home fucking computers.

07:13

nobody goes "i'm going to hire joe, he's kinda meh but he has a kickass workstation!".

07:13

in fact, the difference between THAT approach and what actually happens is exactly the difference between infantile and adult life.

07:13

in roadtrip they go "we gotta take the weirdo - he has a car".

07:13

sure asking truckers to fix toy truck

07:14

fo shizzle. node is almost up to date 200 blocks left

07:14

i mean yes, it's true that most of the firemen are kids that played with fire trucks. it is however quite pointedly not true that most of the equipment down at the fire station is toy fire trucks brought in by conscientious neighbourhood kids.

07:15

perhaps the toys should change. much more useful to work on toys that signal real life than say plastic thing on wheels.

07:15

this entire "look what prb does" is so much cosmo kramer from kramerica industries fixing the fire dept. what was that episode

07:16

the secret code?

07:16

"the secret code" http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheSecretCode2.htm

07:16

Seinfeld Scripts - The Secret Code ... ( http://bit.ly/1YZy90f )

07:16

yeah.

07:16

"Meanwhile, Kramer buys a police scanner and decides to help at the New York City Fire Department. When they receive a call about the fire at Leapin' Larry's, Kramer accidentally knocks out the fire engine driver, forcing him to take the wheel, realizing his lifelong dream. However, he is unable to steer correctly and crashes the fire engine, allowing the fire to spread further."

07:17

admittedly Kramer is pretty much a modern VC wet dream. some of the stuff he sells that's "successful" is just...

07:18

for instance the coffee table book about coffee tables that can turn into a coffee table

07:18

a coffee table book about coffee tables!

07:18

lol\

07:18

kinda how decay goes : stuff is the butt of jokes and "how stupid can these stupid people be", then next decade - sop.

07:21

you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo)

07:23

sometimes I wonder if we went down another path where the educational toys actually make the next generation more stupid. i always thought it interesting that "children of the future will be smarter"

07:26

well... computers of the future will be better, right ?

07:27

intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec".

07:27

(no, no, intelligence is not a THING. it is a behaviour. like dancing.)

07:28

severe lack of education, these days. perhaps not enough beating. or enough starving for dropouts.

07:29

or any incentive whatsoever.

07:29

thestringpuller: main problem these days is too much bitcoin, they've printed 15 million already and show no signs of stopping

07:30

massiro: cool wall! sorry about the impoliteness.

07:31

adlai you can just up unknowns, they'll resolve it soon enough.

07:31

what you shouldn't do is up known idiots, but few resist the temptation.

07:31

meh, i spam enough myself, no need to facilitate spamming by schroedinger's idiots.

07:32

but thank you for the blanket permission :P

07:33

reminds me of conversation I had with CVS cashier. dude was fresh out of high school and I began explaining how banks worked cause I was furious the ATM fees were 5 bucks in that store. anyhow after 5 minutes of confusion cause kid didn't pay attention in school states, "I ain't trynna think that hard man. I'm done with school."

07:34

*

adlai tried explaining bitcoin to a flatmate, seven different ways. each time explanation was met with "why can't people just use money". known idiot is now a former-flatmate.

07:34

sure why not live in ignorance. get your 8.50/hr from CVS, blow it on rent, pot and booze, continue on. no incentive for agency. just a programmable cog.

07:35

frighteningly similar to brave new world. (give em soma and carry on)

07:35

adlai i don't see the problem with this objection ? "they are. that's what i'm telling you. you don't use greek bronze weights, do you ?"

07:35

thestringpuller hey, life is good, whadda ya want. partay!

07:36

ah, so bitcoin is just another mettle, like gold, iron, greek bronze, and mental fortitude?

07:36

well, money's a whore, kinda old by now, consequently keeps changing her attire.

07:36

indeed the local rabble love to shout, "BITCOIN ZE BARZEL"

07:37

well if i ever meet the guy again, i'll be sure to tell him mircea_popescu thanks him for not buying his divestment.

07:38

;;later tell asciilifeform Finally experienced the stuck node thing. Interesting behavior. Wouldn't even accept the "stop" command. Had to kill -9 it.

07:38

The operation succeeded.

07:39

mircea_popescu: i guess let them live in ignorance as long as said ignorance doesn't interfere with the adults?

07:39

everything interferes with everything.

07:39

i never really liked babysitting.

07:39

this "doesn't interfere" thing's a pregnant fiction.

07:40

why open a nice school in the ghetto, if it'll just get defaced two weeks later?

07:40

yet a precise interferometer is about as feasible as a trustworthy kyristor

07:43

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433700 << this nonsense does not turn into fact merely by being uttered by mircea_popescu

07:43

Logged on 16-03-2016 10:59:58; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433627 << nothing you said in the lengthy diatribe following had anything at all to see with the topic proposed!

07:43

pope or no pope

07:43

for anyone who missed the thread, it concerned capitulation to the enemy

07:44

blew my mind that any such thing was on the table

07:44

asciilifeform well, this'd be what i mean. capitulation what ?

07:44

the queston was, what the fuck are we going to do !

07:44

and ~i~ will have no part of it.

07:44

dude again ?

07:44

you will have no part in what ?

07:45

mircea_popescu: any alignment with a usg-enriching or dimon-enabling phork

07:45

and how does this relate to what was being discussed ?

07:45

i don't fuck guys. ok. so ?

07:45

or introduction of material from either into a future trb

07:46

again. how is this related to what was being discussed ?

07:46

did i misthtead or what

07:46

you misread so amply it boggles the mind.

07:46

mircea_popescu: you did say we may have to choose the lesser of two evils

07:46

IF

07:46

~~~~~IIIFFFFFF~~~~~

07:46

this was re the 'strategy' thread, no?

07:46

we have nothing to propose of our own

07:46

THENNNNNNN we will have no fucking good choices to make.

07:46

other than "no fork"?

07:47

there is no spoon, nor a fork. there is a knife, and it lowers kelvin.

07:47

but we have, e.g., a spiffy mircea_popescutronic item from last month

07:47

adlai wouldja think for a moment ? if miners fork tomorrow, pre-miner-fork trb will not be defensible. because bitfury (you know, kakobrekla's friends) have access to vc capital, and will bridge the gap between us printing press and chinese mining.

07:47

should have fucking killed those derps back when they were nobody and losing bitbet bets,

07:48

HOWEVER we didn't, because hey, maybe they do somethign good

07:48

so you're specifically suggesting a "reset PoW" fork?

07:48

in the end, what they did was they sparked through the dielectric.

07:48

adlai: read mircea_popescu's keccak article

07:48

adlai i'm specifically suggesting we better stop flailing emotionally and fucking think, because things are not going well.

07:49

asciilifeform: i can't find this article. do you mean the "necessary prerequisite" one?

07:49

dunno about friendship - i havent been able to reach bitfury in years

07:49

i dun flail, i sit on sharp telephone pole and keccak on lunchbreakz..

07:50

kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern.

07:50

but... i want to believe. sure.

07:50

holyfuk wat?!

07:50

*

thestringpuller just walked into the x-files

07:51

nfi

07:51

i can't wait to learn to whom ~i~ somehow betrayed the motherland

07:52

mtgox?

07:52

fwiw, i sincerely doubt miners would "let core devs decide" if they believed "economic consensus" were against the devs; but this leaves open the problem of convincing them of this.

07:53

*

adlai does not control economic consensus, nor the miners

07:53

adlai they believe the rewaerd havling will kill them, which it well might ; and they see the opportunity with all the core/bitcoin-xt/blabla. will they take it ?

07:53

IF they do, WHAT DO WE DO.

07:53

adlai: do you not see the problem of having 'konsensoooos' in he mix at all ?

07:53

asciilifeform apparently im accused for working for the dark side now, somehow ?

07:54

asciilifeform: partially, although the market price of forkchains makes consensus crystal clear - but only in retrospect.

07:54

kakobrekla: that was the implication? unless i'm thick

07:54

well, rate away!

07:55

there's a difference between "i know x" and "i don't know x".

07:55

mircea_popescu: hmmm. ok, this is a valid question, my answer to which is: port Luke-Jr's keccak reset from "classic" to trb, and be ready to activate it, should a fork occur.

07:55

but i don't think trb should initiate a fork.

07:56

at no point was it proposed that trb does.

07:56

adlai: who said anything about porting some derp's turd

07:56

the entire thing was, we should take stock of the situation, and make some judgements and plan some plans in a complete and responsible manner.

07:56

just like we [at least theoretically/aspirationally] write code

07:56

ennumerate the fucking states and test!

07:57

asciilifeform: "port" in the loose sense of the word. let's rephrase that as "some poor code monkey should write a keccak vpatch for trb, but nobody should ever have to use it"

07:57

adlai: nuke must be tested.

07:57

of course, this is why we have ATC

07:57

on live vermin, to be effective.

07:57

had*

07:57

so again : 1) ~IF~ summer/july becomes the summer of forks, what do we do ?

07:58

2) IF miners come out with their own fork, what do we do ?

07:58

i liked mircea_popescu's algo!

07:58

what about the 5% needed to veto softforks?

07:58

asciilifeform: you never answered my question. which is mp's keccak article?

07:58

asciilifeform please note that it was strictly example and not design work ready for implementation.

07:58

adlai pretty sure the one you said.

07:59

ok, i also like that idea, although as you said yourself, it's not fully baked yet. i also like that it can be initially opt-in, with an ultimatum that it gets 'hardened' by some date, if it hasn't 'softened' by then.

07:59

the only thing i would change is to retain old capital distribution, then keccak has a chance at continuing old schellingpoint.

07:59

see, now for some reason we're talking on point.

07:59

i dunno wtf i shoulda done different so this happened a week ago rather than now.

07:59

adlai: you can't 'soften' powe

08:00

asciilifeform: mircea's suggestion is implementable as a soft fork.

08:00

it is ?

08:00

ie, only miners ~must~ enforce it; once nodes also do, it hardens, and then miners can't choose to reverse the previously-soft fork.

08:00

no, wtf!

08:00

i'm confused.

08:00

until it hardens, miners could reverse.

08:00

adlai: holy fuck, 2 pows?!

08:00

no.

08:00

wh?

08:01

we're probably talking about different articles.

08:01

*

adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn"

08:02

which is possible to launch as a miner-only fork, which nodes can choose to enforce, but don't have to; and then at some later date, all nodes enforce it, and miners know they must keep enforcing it, too.

08:02

adlai: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol

08:02

The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UyPaxv )

08:02

i like how bitcoin mining manufacturers don't even shy away about it: "this is the most powerful miner available to ~the public~" what miners are available to the private?

08:02

asciilifeform: we're talking about the same article. read what i just said, it is about that idea.

08:03

thestringpuller: all the ones that matter

08:03

thestringpuller might just be boilerplate. replace "to the public" with "on god's own earth".

08:03

adlai: i utterly fail to grasp how this is an idea

08:03

can't make this sorta judgements on the basis of fucking copywriting.

08:03

wtf is a 'miner-only fork'

08:04

asciilifeform: it's an idea because it means that the "#b-a fork" isn't a hard-fork that can fail.

08:04

asciilifeform i dunno, the crowning of five years of complete neglect of the relay network ?

08:04

"dun matter anyway!"

08:04

as opposed to "let's make our new blocks incompatible"

08:04

breaking consensus is a hard fork. narrowing it - soft.

08:04

ok.

08:04

that much we agree on. go on.

08:05

adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-10-2015#1303934

08:05

Logged on 20-10-2015 22:10:51; ascii_field: 'we'll make trucks over five tonnes switch sides first!'

08:05

well what do i go on about? ultimately the whole hard/soft thing is a terrible terminology, verging on false dichotomy.

08:06

*

adlai shuts up and attends to private matters

08:06

adlai you go about deductively showing your proposal from the shared basis.

08:06

if, then.

08:06

again how the fuck can pow switch be 'soft' in any sense ?!

08:06

it dun get any harder than pow switchout

08:06

aha, here's the misunderstanding. my proposal was not a pow switch.

08:06

but the article was ?

08:07

get the miners to execute themselves willingly - softfork.

08:07

mircea_popescu: correct. i was hallucinating an alternate article, which said to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433851

08:07

Logged on 16-03-2016 12:01:30; *: adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn"

08:07

softfecalmatter is how we got here.

08:07

*

adlai adjusts meth-lsd dosage accordingly to reduce hallucinations

08:08

i dunno what all that was but anyways.

08:08

adlai: this is ~exactly~ the old joke with the trucks

08:08

asciilifeform keeping old coinbases has the advantage and the disadvantage of keeping old coinbases.

08:08

yes, schelling point to continue, yes with the same idiots/geniuses as before, and thus at a lower adoption interest.

08:09

mircea_popescu: the advantage is that we become distinguishable from the usual idiot attempts at self-enrichment.

08:09

certainly.

08:09

the disadvantages - legion.

08:09

this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing.

08:10

i'm not pushing it either this way or that, just want to get all the things on table if possibru.

08:10

it could even make sense to fight on 2 fronts at once.

08:10

keccak-clean and keccak-trbchain.

08:11

clean?

08:11

(and generally i dunno why this shortcircuit between facts and judgement became fashionable here, seems much too close to the habits of the "independent" demographic for comfort. trust me, if i want to say x i will say it in those exact words, as i have without exception to date. saying i don't know x means i do not know. and similarly, here, and so on. i totally can speak for myself, say what i mean etc.)

08:11

nowhere is it written that tmsr will field exactly one weapon.

08:12

this much is very true.

08:12

which was part of my initial wtf at your initial reaction.

08:12

mircea_popescu: sleep of reason breeds monsters etc

08:13

mircea_popescu: my reaction now is same as then, i am willing to take part in 1,000,001 variants but not in capitulation to the motherfuckng nazis

08:13

yes yes. good.

08:13

if i wanted to wear brown all i gotta do is, understand, cross the street

08:13

but i dun wanna.

08:14

i think the record well reflects this.

08:15

(last night for example i formally turned down the 'encouragement' to try out for 'top secret' and may very well be sacked eventually because of it)

08:15

so your idea is, that we of course continue to maintain trb as is, but also develop a keccak pow variant, for use in case of forks ? or vice-versa, in case of forks develop it ?

08:15

aha.

08:16

asciilifeform lol hey, life of your parents! funny how this works!

08:16

quite!

08:16

how would it go, that commenter's proposal ?

08:16

which?

08:16

lemme fish it out

08:17

http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116408

08:17

The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UyRBjA )

08:17

basically, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest), and BOTH must be < difficulty.

08:18

well, hm, that doesn't work as stated

08:18

what i read there was, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest+nonce)

08:18

keccak is an 'accordion'

08:18

and obviously, gotta be the same nonce.

08:18

asciilifeform keccak for this purpose counts as sha-3

08:18

and properly stretches to fit the while thing

08:18

Whole thing

08:18

that's not the problem, the merkle tree jiggling is the problem.

08:18

yes but it doesn't need the idiot chaining

08:19

there was no sha(sha( contemplated

08:19

or you mean something else ?

08:19

linked comment

08:19

ah ah. that's just assumption imported from current codebase, not intentional.

08:20

also the hashing-the-header thing is possibly evil

08:20

the valuable idea there is, imo, that you have to keep the same nonce to calculate both sha values. which ACTUALLY does work, or seems to me to work, to do what the article proposes

08:20

enables pools.

08:20

ie, give nodes a way to make money for cpu usage.

08:21

asciilifeform it can stay as PART of it tho.

08:21

see, the beauty of this is that it is a TRUE soft fork.

08:21

sure.

08:21

ie, you still need the old gear + new gear.

08:21

how?

08:21

not in the faux sense of "soft" used before.

08:21

ok now i'm thoroughly lost

08:21

(well, it ~can~ be at any rate)

08:21

asciilifeform ask a question ?

08:22

i thought we were bugspraying the old gear people.

08:22

we CAN.

08:22

for their crimes.

08:22

we don't HAVE TO.

08:22

winning is all about preserving your fucking options.

08:22

in the pow1 = sha(header+nonce) and pow2 = sha(digest+nonce), the first sha can even stay what it is now.

08:23

i can see preserving old capital allocation re coinz

08:23

but hash power distrib? lunacy

08:23

asciilifeform same argument could be presented in reverse, also.

08:23

to plenty, present coinbase allocation = lunacy.

08:24

after all, do you know how much usg stole so far ? do they have more than satoshi yet ? if not yet, when ?

08:24

it depends on who the reader sees as musting die, no?

08:24

eventually, yes ? not like satoshi is adding any.

08:24

if only it were so simple!

08:25

the available evidence suggests that, like a bike thief, they steal to ~sell~

08:25

!s waterfall

08:25

119 results for 'waterfall' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=waterfall

08:25

but this does not detract from their capacity of selling.

08:25

if one day they come to their senses, what then ?

08:25

"sell" ? to whom ? etc.

08:26

im sorry, "detract from their capacity of stealing" is what i meant.

08:26

then, as described in mircea_popescu's articles, they become just another player

08:26

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433891 <<< yup :)

08:26

Logged on 16-03-2016 12:09:47; thestringpuller: this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing.

08:26

not those senses, their other senses.

08:26

waiwut

08:27

how would this look?

08:27

'from now on we sit on all we steal so we can dump in a decade' ?

08:27

asciilifeform usg currently steals to sell. perhaps. this does not reduce their capacity to steal in the future. if in the future they steal to hoard, or if the stuff they "sold" was just facade, through preserving coinbases we are baking in not just the original satoshi, but also an evil satoshi.

08:27

and meanwhile let it 'go to moon' ?!

08:29

evil satoshi is likewise present in any fork, unless you're convinced - and i am not - that enemy cannot win arbitrary pow miner buildout race.

08:29

this is also true.

08:29

let's recall which side has si fabs.

08:29

these are all the moving parts we'll have to count and balance.

08:29

and which - not.

08:29

the usg does not have si fabs.

08:29

not anymore than you do.

08:29

intel

08:30

and fuck, people like northrop

08:30

intellectual property outfits.

08:30

they actually fab in usa.

08:30

some, not so much not so well etc.

08:30

nope, the latter - fab.

08:30

myeah, there is that.

08:30

and of course the nsa foundry etc.

08:30

altho they sold it to some contractor iirc ? whatevs.

08:30

aha.

08:31

'sold'

08:31

you mean like "sold" bitcoin ? :D

08:31

standard way to handle budget overruns

08:31

aha.

08:31

e.g., sandia labs, was likewise 'sold' iirc.

08:33

so - usg can build, if pressed, machines. ~whereas~ existing coinbases they can only reallocate, save a ecdsa break, by knocking people over the head. which is loud and somewhat costly.

08:33

neither loud nor costly to date.

08:33

and has well-documented countermeasures.

08:33

to a point.

08:33

ulbricht was mighty loud.

08:33

really ?

08:34

who got shot ?

08:34

and if he had a pin to pull, the nazis would have nothing.

08:34

if btc people were the sort where it'd cost about 1.25 heads of usg agent per bitcoin stolen, this is one thing.

08:34

btc people so far seem much lower effort than that.

08:34

so i can't compute this like you would. it's silent and cheap, not loud, not costly.

08:34

destroying the keys would be a start.

08:35

not being an anglotard - even better start. and yet...

08:35

scorched earth device is usable by ~anyone.

08:35

i would propose to you that "destroying the keys" feels exactly like "moving to argentina" does to you.

08:35

so it is usable by anyone who doesn't work, live, was educated or born in the us.

08:35

i suppose.

08:36

this utter fear of finality they bake into all their runts.

08:36

"omaigerd what do you mean it's finished!"

08:36

and mircea_popescu knows that i'd be on the next flight if i were properly 13337 and knew how to pay the rentz there.

08:36

hahahaha. and similarly i know that they WOULDNT NEED TO pull the pin

08:37

if they were properly leet and called their secret legions to battle with da polis.

08:37

derp, srsly.

08:37

l0l point

08:37

then we're really speaking of eating one's nagant

08:37

which plenty of folks do

08:38

and yet others - study to do

08:38

yes, plenty of folk do. that don't work, live, were educated or born in the us.

08:38

whatchatalkingabout usa inmates drop like flies

08:38

suddenly we understand the importance of national heroes like joe stack

08:38

it protects an entire fucking population from the above being an absolute.

08:39

they suicide at drop of a hat!

08:39

yehimsure.

08:39

usually cheaply/boringly

08:39

but just as dead

08:40

mircea_popescu this is a country where , i suspect, most folks' retirement plan is a .45 !

08:41

'Colt Life&Health Co.'

08:42

but mircea_popescu nailed it, 'get on the boat with the shirt on yer back' is a kind of death-lite-version

08:43

been there, done that.

08:43

witnessed the effect on older folk, too.

08:45

aha.

08:45

i enjoy it so much i do it spuriously.

08:45

mno.

08:46

do tell ?

08:46

mircea_popescu , what, threw out his capital ?

08:46

all of it?

08:46

went with shirt?!

08:47

i did build and burn a number of fortunes, but in my younger years. nevertheless : you know, peter ALSO didn't HAVE TO take the imperial guard with.

08:47

it's an option, not an obligation.

08:47

no phriend-who-owes-him-a-block-of-flats either !

08:47

for actual emperors. not for fuckrags a la obama, but for actual emperors.

08:48

whatever nietzschetronic etc. etc.

08:48

dun haet.

08:48

l0lz

08:49

yahyah mircea_popescu has esp powerz and they aint for sale and follow him through the seven worlds etc etc

08:49

but i was talking about mortals.

08:49

dun haet!!1

08:50

mortals ain't pulling any pins, you see. so yea, "anyonecandoit".

08:50

not ntirely unrelatedly, usg is doing an impromptu collapse drill under the guise of fire inspection, and closes the whole motherfuckng subway for 24h

08:51

so now i go and see what 100,000 extra cars look like.

08:51

*

asciilifeform bbl

08:51

*

mircea_popescu had a friend, and a fine fellow he was, who unfortunately died young. but we were friends from childhood

08:52

my earliest memory of him is, we were in some rural setting, dun recall whose grandparents, and we had chicks (kids get young hatchlings to play with in the time and place, it's a time-honored tradition like getting your toddler one of those dingly noise things to put above the crib or w/e)

08:53

some younger kid that didn't have one wanted to play with his, this guy would have none of it, eventually some adult intervened to make him share

08:53

so he turned the chicks neck and threw the corpse at the whiner.

08:54

school hadn't yet started, so we were prolly 6 or so. but this was a rare concept even at that age.

08:54

~EVEN~ at that age.

08:54

shutting the studio down?

08:54

very p. diddy-esque

~ 34 minutes ~

09:29

and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/dc33a2028212d40e6e9ec9b9f889e90f/tumblr_nczbyyHu0n1t2qfvbo1_1280.jpg

09:29

... ( http://bit.ly/1ptORZA )

09:33

;;later tell BingoBoingo ping me when you have time to look at possible qntra submission. Grazie.

09:33

The operation succeeded.

09:39

(and to cap that story - yea the adults expressed outrage ["how could you do that!"] but no, he wasn't punished, because no there was no offense, and the father(s) wouldn't have it, or generally let the women run amok with their nonsense. so hurray for patriarchy or whatever, boo the psychopaths of this world!)

09:45

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433536 << /me extends hand to receive host

09:45

Logged on 15-03-2016 23:11:11; jurov: and *gasp* roman catholics

09:49

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433764 <<< the general case is true here too

09:49

Logged on 16-03-2016 11:43:02; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433700 << this nonsense does not turn into fact merely by being uttered by mircea_popescu

09:51

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433800 << lel

09:51

Logged on 16-03-2016 11:50:11; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern.

09:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60550 @ 0.0004201 = 25.4371 BTC [-] {4}

10:03

davout you have a 21.co?

10:03

anyone else apply for s.bbet receivership job?

10:03

*

nubbins` guesses nobody except for that one turbo-unqualified nobody

10:05

!up dbclk

10:05

wat

10:06

!up dbclk

10:07

nubbins`: just interested in seeing who's paying attention

10:07

8)

10:11

i wish i had rather not pay attention

10:12

jurov it would make things easier

10:12

oh FWIW i'm doing another run of posters https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1387250.0

10:12

[10/100] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [UPDATED DESIGN FOR 2016] ... ( http://bit.ly/1pIEPUf )

10:19

adlai: your deed will send as soon as this thing reimports its key into the wallet for the 30th time

10:19

mircea_popescu: that is such a terrible story, the child should have been spanked for chiccicide

10:19

$ LC_ALL=C bitcoind listaccounts

10:19

{

10:19

"" : -0.00020000

10:19

}

10:19

aha looks like trinque is pulling a ben_vulpes ?

10:19

pardon?

10:19

nvm

10:19

yeah im sure.

10:20

masheu beanglit

10:20

what's so terrible about it ?

10:20

the child should have been spanked! you don't just go around letting your kids kill things, without a little flick on the butt

10:20

and why not ?

10:20

when I had a cat it killed things all the time, for fun.

10:21

cats are particularly bloodthirsty huh.

10:21

anyway, http://trilema.com/2016/the-chick-incident/

10:21

The chick incident on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/21v8z2T )

10:22

mircea_popescu: i wanna answer with a log link, but the search is failing so i'll quote instead: "mircea_popescu: *-cide is never justifiable"

10:23

although the * in that context was just a bunch of cells!

10:23

(for the lispless in the audience, cells are a human invention, by kenny tilton)

10:24

somebody on better terms with that man oughtta invite him in here someday.

10:24

i don't think justification was attempted.

10:24

breathing is also never justifiable.

10:24

iirc somebody asked you whether you justify abortion or somesuch

10:24

best find the link.

10:24

!s mircea abortion

10:24

31 results for 'mircea abortion' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mircea+abortion

10:24

*

adlai lets googlebot find it

10:25

it's 4:20, i got blunts to burn and chat to spurn.

10:25

adlai can't propose weird stances for mp to have taken in the past and then crap out on the documentation.

10:25

well it was definitely after i joined the channel, if that limits the search space.

10:26

nobody's going to do your work. you wanna talk to the adults, talk like the adults.

10:26

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-04-2015#1106206

10:26

Logged on 22-04-2015 01:52:22; mircea_popescu: the alternative is nothing. murder's not something to be explained.

10:26

*

adlai attains enlightenment - "chix" are not subject to "murder"!

10:27

thank you, buddha. you're next.

10:27

you see the difference between to explain and to justify yes ?

10:27

sure

10:27

*

adlai wanders off in search of the buddha

10:27

discretionary acts are that, discretionary. no explanation is available for the private sphere.

10:28

but yes, that's the major problem of murder : a private act with major public effects. pretty major conundrum.

10:30

*

adlai blows buddha-neck-dust off hands

10:31

( for the heathens - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dan#Killing_the_Buddha )

10:31

Kōan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1VckfYs )

10:34

!t m s.mpoe

10:34

[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00042006 / 0.00042062 / 0.00042603 (374417 shares, 157.49 BTC), 7D: 0.00042006 / 0.00048142 / 0.00053073 (12408846 shares, 5,973.87 BTC), 30D: 0.00042006 / 0.00055086 / 0.00059897 (72958913 shares, 40,190.59 BTC)

10:37

so i made the mistake of following the tardpedia link. therein,

10:37

A student asked Master Yun-Men (A.D. 949) "Not even a thought has arisen; is there still a sin or not?" Master replied, "Mount Sumeru!"

10:37

motherfucking hell these idiots already.

10:37

i'm not sure there exists but i'm sure i don't know anything more offensive than the precious derpage in the eastern tradition.

10:37

they were right about killing them! put them out of their fucking misery, can't you hear it in their "bushels of flax"

10:38

btw: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-01-2016#1386701 << yes totally you have no idea. you should try it sometime!

10:38

Logged on 27-01-2016 00:03:26; mircea_popescu: isn't lying fun.

10:38

"if you meet a derpy teenager with whispy "beard" hair, onanistic odours wafting every which way who can'tstop prattlingabout his erotic exploits...

10:38

whatever, kill him i guess."

10:39

fucking bullshit, "what's the meaning of coincidence ?" "dunno dood, HE HAD TO FUCKING COME FROM SOMEWHERE" hurr durr.

10:40

"gotta do something while waiting for buddha to decide christ's more fun and come back to save or someshit."

10:40

"meanwhile this cock ain't gonna rub itself, so here we are".

10:41

adlai you realise - google is even better at koans than at go.

10:41

oh i know, i already ready https://medium.com/my-satsang/on-k%C5%8Dans-and-turing-machines-adeac0844dac#.z82tdhxaw

10:41

On Kōans and Turing Machines — My Satsang — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/21vaiFa )

10:43

https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*e-IrhTIQQ2-GaOdbDMYxGw.png << ahahahahaha check that out. model of consciousness even

10:43

... ( http://bit.ly/21vay74 )

10:46

trinque "but what is the meaning of the colors!" "the wild fox is dead"

10:46

hurr durr we're in nirvana hall.

10:48

in the same vein, mihai margineanu playing atm, just went "whenever you ask a question you don't expect answered ; why are you surprised when you get an answer you didn't expect".

10:48

not bad

10:52

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434153 << don't confuse with valhalla hall, with the valkyries. nirvana hall is just that 20 m^3 concrete cesspool from mircea_popescu's old article.

10:52

Logged on 16-03-2016 14:46:24; mircea_popescu: hurr durr we're in nirvana hall.

10:52

asciilifeform is coincidentally the pompous name of the place where the events discussed transpired.

10:53

urgh

10:53

!up hybridsole

10:54

interestingly, no effect visible to naked eye from the city subway here being closed - seems as if usg took the day off..

10:54

so net ~0.

10:56

asciilifeform what, the assumption that alternatives exist died in practice yet again ?

10:57

and silly me, to think that the guys in the subway are there by choice, and they could do something else.

10:58

"no subway, no travel - i don't own a 1/100000 of the 100`000 spare car meta-pool, nor do i have anything to do that'd justify it."

10:59

mircea_popescu: megalopolis dies without either a) subway or b) the folks who work there, living there

10:59

and we don't have (b) here

10:59

so tell me, as a curio : what is the correct accounting for "city having subway" in the books of a donut shop at the corner of 85th and 10th ?

10:59

calculate how much of, e.g., nyc, you would have to level and convert to garage, and how much to level to convert to 32-lane streets, to have a (c) everyone drives

11:00

because it clearly IS part of the books, right ? trivially enumerable, as it is. just not easy to evaluate.

11:00

what do!

11:00

mircea_popescu: well traditionally it is whatever the tax is, no ?

11:00

or wait, you don't do number grid in dc, do you ?

11:00

there is a (primitive) grid.

11:00

asciilifeform ha-HA ? tax offers no guarantee.

11:00

as you recall, police is not obliged to serve you.

11:00

no shit !

11:00

so... how do you put the subway on the donut shop's books!

11:01

this is no light matter.

11:01

the king actually doing his thing is a best-effort affair aha.

11:01

you can't put motherfucking collapse on the books.

11:01

because it costs +inf.

11:01

awww!

11:01

but but but...

11:01

(not even maxint - you could pay maxint, theoretically.)

11:01

WHAT DO!

11:01

the old ww1 saw.

11:02

'whaddoido if a shell lands in my trench??'

11:02

answer:

11:02

no everlasting life eh?

11:02

'jump up twenty metres and scatter yerself around a bit'

11:02

lol

11:02

wwwwwwellllll then.

11:03

there is no entry in the bookz for 'asteroid' either.

11:03

in case this is not obvious, transparent parallel to our bitbet adventures.

11:03

no shit.

11:03

hey, i dunno what posterity is like. maybe they're retarded.

11:04

this is more or less a safe assumption.

11:04

i prefer to practice safe sex rather than safe assumptions.

11:06

l0l

11:08

the chicken story is lulzy

11:09

i imagine every boy broke something when 'made to share' at some point

11:09

but i never had a whole fucking chicken

11:09

mircea_popescu is the clear winner in the moar-orc contest.

11:10

incidentally every time i open my idiot mouth and talk to colleagues, another one of my 'every boy must have...' assumptions drops like a fucking fly.

11:11

sometimes it is chronological,

11:11

e.g., i run into grown man who never saw msdos

11:11

sometimes - not.

11:14

mircea_popescu: pls to mpex

11:14

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434076 << l0l wut, the circa-2013 usb miner thing ??

11:14

Logged on 16-03-2016 14:03:05; nubbins`: davout you have a 21.co?

11:14

why would anyone buy ? i still dun get it

11:15

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434092 << i learned one way to achieve this 'wonder' - doublespends followed by normal spend

11:15

Logged on 16-03-2016 14:19:29; trinque: "" : -0.00020000

11:15

wallet (incl. trb) ~much~ dislikes doublespends

11:15

you end up with this barf.

11:15

I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva.

11:16

trinque: neato!

11:16

too much manual lever-pulling at the moment

11:16

trinque: what do you need to make this go ?

11:17

imho the mega-reasonable thing to do, and the thing i would be doing right now if not sitting on a stake possibly, is to abstract out the wallet idiocy

11:17

trinque: that -0.00020000 comes from the "accounts" mega-turd?

11:17

davout: yes

11:17

which is to say, incorporate db calls into shiva

11:17

and go from that to tx-crafting

11:17

while staying in shiva.

11:18

asciilifeform: right, I would at least need sendrawtxn (can make txn elsewhere) but it would also be nice to have createrawtxn and signrawtxn I suppose.

11:18

I can do the latter two outside too

11:18

you need the blockchain for this.

11:18

had my own external wallet db for btcd

11:18

(at least in practice)

11:19

I was simply keeping a sqlite db of txns

11:19

hypothetically I would like to simply be able to inquire the balance of any address at any time

11:19

this seems heavy given the db structure used

11:19

this is O(N) trinque.

11:19

yep.

11:19

intrinsically.

11:20

this "accounts" thing is such an abomination...

11:21

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434210 <<< the rasperree-pee-that-can-also-mine-sort-of

11:21

Logged on 16-03-2016 15:14:21; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434076 << l0l wut, the circa-2013 usb miner thing ??

11:22

the notion of the machine undertaking to solve the knapsack problem is ludicrous in itself.

11:22

and from it flow the other atrocities of the 'wallet'.

11:22

is everyone familiar with knapsack ?

11:25

yep, you have finite volume and items of varying volume and value, want to pack the knapsack by optimal value

11:26

*

trinque worked on warehouse software in ancient days

11:27

asciilifeform> but i never had a whole fucking chicken << seriously ?!

11:27

my sister killed more than these by being a kid and accidentally stepping on their heads than i can recall.

11:29

trinque> I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva. << bless your heart.

11:29

davout> this "accounts" thing is such an abomination... << consensus on this since... 2011 ?

11:30

trinque i recall me losing my top over this back in 2013ish or w/e the first time bitcoin-idiocy got in the way of bitbet, being told "oh wait, this is an actual problem - we don't resolve problems, we write code here at prb!"

11:31

"Fix the motherfucking code before you have to be fired. To recap : a. If I want to make 1 Mb txs I make 1 Mb txs ; b. correct inputs are selected to feed the outputs as if a human or better was doing the selecting." << also march, as fate would have it.

11:33

pretty much

11:35

asciilifeform how exactly is the notion ludicrous in itself ?

11:40

mircea_popescu: knapsack problem is this np-complete boojum for which you can, yes, have various crapsack approximations

11:40

so then.

11:40

which is what we have in trb

11:41

not at all.

11:41

well... by some standard a brick is a computer, so sure.

11:41

the tx selector thing

11:41

for 'pay x btc to addr a'

11:41

machine solves 'from which unspent ins'

11:41

~random

11:41

poorly.

11:42

even historical order would acvtually beat trb on this.

11:42

the create-new-addr-every-time thing also guarantees fragging and pestilential multitudes of 'young' unspent coin

11:42

as if the knapsack thing were not enough

11:42

both the "shittier than historical" and "new addr for change" bits are satoshi's dubious kludges to protect "anonimity"

11:43

let's pile up moar, moar!111 variably-valued items for the solver!1111

11:43

except for a very poorly defined, mostly felt notion of "anonimity"

11:43

^^^

11:43

was the idiot justification aha.

11:43

enemy could not possibly spend extra few 100 cpu cycles!1111

11:43

to recalculate the origin.

11:43

whitening.

11:43

aha.

11:43

it is a really hard thing to pass.

11:43

nanto or how do they call it.

11:43

exercise in electrically-assisted self delusion

11:44

like most kompyooooting claptrap.

11:46

but anyway, unlike the pow wars or whatever apocalyptic thunderclouds, the wallet ~could~ be fixed if anyone gave half a fuck

11:47

i kinda assumed formerly that mircea_popescu fixed it in his

11:47

(not with own hands, naturally, but whatever makes mpb)

11:47

or, in the words of the ballas master, " Yet given the infinity of the internet you still surf the same 5 websites, looking for and finding exactly what you want, like a baby playing peekaboo in a mirror over and over and over and over and over and over and..."

11:47

was surprised to learn that this was not so

11:47

fixed or removed and cauterized?

11:47

fixed fixed.

11:47

mircea_popesc-fixed

11:47

I was doing just fine without a wallet using btcd

11:47

you learned what how when ?

11:47

and shitting my own txns in from elsewhere

11:48

jumped onto trb intending to cause myself severe pain such that gears of progress and whatnot

11:49

mircea_popescu: by implication, from various mircea_popescu gripes about tx-sending.

11:50

pretty much all i know about mpb comes from these !

11:50

heh.

11:50

"on the basis of the leaks coming from the invisible aircraft we have learned that it is a duck."

11:51

does it float?

11:51

only in air.

11:51

approx.

11:51

close enough

11:52

when i see that birdshot works on it, i know it is prolly not a mig...

11:54

amateur hunter returns empty handed from swamp. "nothing but migs out there good god what's the world coming to!"

11:54

from 'linux', lulz,

11:54

# /etc/localtime is a symlink with glibc > 2.15-41

11:54

^ how the FUCK is this any business of libc.

11:54

recall the threads about ntp, political time etc ?

11:54

like that.

11:54

uhah.

11:59

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433702 << it is what there is.

11:59

Logged on 16-03-2016 11:03:11; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433648 << not afaik. if you don't count various people (including alf most recently) on various occasions throwing their hands up in disgust at the dysfunctional pos.

11:59

i don't have another, functional os buried somewhere

11:59

aha.

11:59

for me right now it is gentoo or unabomber cabin.

12:00

hanbot

phf / anyone who mac-erizes or might mess with gpgtools, tell me menu option & any steps involved in exporting pubkey if you have a moment? i'm trying to put a eulora wiki guide together and these derps have like zero documentation.

12:00

'perelman-os'

12:01

mircea_popescu: fwiw the mask set i published here will build a depoetteringized (though not dedrepperized) gentoo, which will stay that way. but various more or less essential items, e.g., 'wireshark', will not build.

12:02

i am aware.

12:02

there is a dedrepperized (experimental, musltronic) gentoo but it is VERY spartan

12:02

e.g., no emacs.

12:02

so not really os.

12:02

mircea_popescu ah so you tried it.

12:02

i did not think anyone gave a fuck.

12:02

why not ?

12:03

because everybody here, afaik, already has some ruin he inhabits

12:03

but i have nfi.

12:03

you think like the man of a single woman.

12:04

i speak like diogenes of a single barrel.

12:04

!b 2

12:04

Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0MWNF9W.txt )

12:04

though i have a few dozen mostly broken ones.

12:04

everyone's a diogenes of a single candle.

12:05

and single turtle, aha.

12:05

actually that's a great name for the temple for this here cult,

12:05

Temple of the Diogenes of the Single Candle.

12:06

teh dsc sounds like a pretty kickass patron deity, thinking about it.

12:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.00042006 = 27.997 BTC [-]

12:07

much of modern tech is really reducible to 'let's give diogenes 1000w projector, he will surely find honest man!111'

12:08

hey, he wins at go.

12:08

speaking of which, how about them 1900 cores.

12:08

what of it ?

12:08

(from, iirc, 1200, after the machine loss)

12:09

since when is this done.

12:09

since forever ?

12:09

or hwat ?

12:09

i distincly recall stipulation that all 5 games will be played against same thing ?

12:09

or did i dream this.

12:09

heh.

12:10

machine is not a thing in the sense here contemplated.

12:10

being rather the collective best effort of the king's horses and king's men ?

12:10

the whole deal was something like "and lee sedol will now play the whole nation of china - elect a representative, or two, or whatever. the go competence of the entire han race is being judged"

12:11

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433733 << i read it. marvelous tale. and - unsurprisingly - barfalicious hollywood film 50 yrs later.

12:11

Logged on 16-03-2016 11:21:59; thestringpuller: you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo)

12:13

ahh this mango lassi.

12:13

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433736 << in some circumstances ~maladaptive~

12:13

Logged on 16-03-2016 11:27:35; mircea_popescu: intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec".

12:13

notrly.

12:14

the adaptive behaviour is teh intelligence - the rest, will, if you will, or whatever.

12:14

what if test is 'be not as large as a mouse, there is nothing to eat but for cockroach'

12:14

dumb mouse.

12:14

sometimes it is maladaptive to be larger than roach

12:14

where then, the intelligence.

12:15

and if it is, it's also unintelligent.

12:15

in the end, the stone - who outlasts all - is most intelligent then.

12:15

brick lisp !

12:15

notreally, as it doesn't adapt.

12:15

this is not imho a very interesting concept of intelligence.

12:15

but it is more reliably notstupid than people, for sure.

12:15

why haet.

12:16

l0l this was even in my brick article

12:16

english folks say 'stopped clock is right 2x a day'

12:16

beats a great many people aha.

12:16

now why'd you strawman the "adaptive behaviour" ? what the fuck do you care what the outcome is.

12:17

i merely happen to live there.

12:17

so not entirely indifferent to whether surrounded by cockroach

12:18

mircea_popescu lives on mt olympus with the other godz and naturally gives not a fuck

12:18

that you don't like the outcome is not cause to alter the definitions lol.

12:21

evolutionary process is mega-adaptable but is not in any useful sense intelligent

12:22

behaviour!

12:22

because cannot plan or 'think outside local maxima'.

12:22

process is not behaviour.

12:22

'be born a cockroach' is not behaviour of anything but evolutionary process

12:22

so ?

12:22

i am sorry strawman doth not make much sense and commiserate !

12:25

i commiserate that mircea_popescu thinks the 'idiot god' of hill-climbing optimizer is 'intelligence'

12:25

not what i said.

12:25

the root of the problem would seem to be the self-serving but otherwise bluntly unwarranted assumption that "intelligence is useful in all circumstances".

12:26

this is not so.

12:26

pretty much what i said, no ?

12:26

no. you said maladaptive.

12:26

that presumes you act on it.

12:26

take the famous sea cucumber.

12:26

aite.

12:27

'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task, it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain anymore, so it eats it! It's rather like getting tenure.'

12:28

must not be the same animal, sea cucumber i think of is an echinoderm.

12:28

it moves.

12:29

(actually it's the jumping champion, some 1km jumps)

12:30

ah right

12:31

but anyway, so animal that stops locomoting gives up brain cells used for handling that.

12:31

recall pigeon experiments ? brain is plastic, takes over function of lost partys

12:31

at the expense of other processes, of course. so what of it ?

12:31

aha.

12:32

this is adaptive.

12:33

and the beast can't exactly grow a new brain if environment changes and it could take the chance of moving to a new rock.

12:34

so because enthalpy, you propose no commerce is possible.

12:34

not in closed system !

12:34

non-closedness of a system is an accounting fiction.

12:35

and this is where we find out that mircea_popescu stands outside heat death.

12:36

why ?

12:38

largely since i never get the sense he is discussing a place where he ~lives~

12:38

vs some distant zoo

12:38

also duck ?

12:38

prolly goes with the job.

12:40

i can see it already: harem gurl: 'i stepped on rusty nail!' mircea_popescu: 'here's an impregnation, perhaps after 20 generations your descendants will have shell armour on their feet'

12:41

'meanwhile have a rusty knife'

12:41

did i ever recall the story of the slavegirl that had never seen railroad tracks ?

12:41

nope

12:41

"here's an impregnation" << lolol

12:42

so we go to cross some tracks and i say "careful not to touch the shiny parts!" and she carefully steps to not touch the shiny parts.

12:42

who the fuck has not seen railroad ? blind gurl ?

12:42

wat?!

12:42

later finding herself at a good time for such, inquires why parts were shiny ?

12:42

"because trains go on them, polish them"

12:42

"so then why not step on them ?!"

12:42

"no reason."

12:42

"i thought it was something with electrictiy!!1"

12:43

asciilifeform not all people come from europe you know.

12:43

who else has rail ? new england ?

12:43

portland wants to be yurp bad enough to have put some in

12:43

aokthen!

12:43

there are rails here!

12:43

couple of hipster chicks get flattened by it per year

12:43

trinque funny, was same in india!

12:44

every day 1000 tonnes of coal went past my old flat

12:44

and there were a few splats also.

12:44

anyway, i wonder why asciilifeform is so convinced that one may only see the truth of things that don't affect them personally.

12:44

prolly because 20 pack a day mathematics habit

12:45

what is this. mayhap the explanation isn't that mp lives in a heat-death immune dirigible (upgraded from atomic) but simply... does not care ?

12:46

i am reminded of dan mocsny's 'whichever one of us leaves usenet first is the Real Man' mega-flame

12:46

(moscny - won.)

12:46

how ?

12:46

he left.

12:46

no, how are you reminded

12:46

ah the not-caring olympics l0l

12:47

but look at the jump : 1) unexplained item can be explained by a or b ; 2) it's a b-olympics!

12:47

what goes from 1 to 2 ?

12:47

side thread

12:48

the jump is the mechanism at issue here nevertheless.

12:49

well, to re-connect the frags, i take issue with everett's device as problem solving tool, because if you admit it, none of the other things we do make any sense

12:49

these are as far as i've seen the two mindbugs of the republic : a) A -> B therefore B-> A, ie backflow ; and b) the above.

12:49

why not just fellate our pistols every morning while enemy is still alive ?

12:49

there is no capacity of sense in phenomenology.

12:49

nothing "makes sense" in the sense you want it to.

12:49

ethics (ie, the mechanism to answer "what should i do") is a very severely limited science.

12:50

so why is mircea_popescu eating cake and not rusty nails ?

12:50

will. not intelligence.

12:50

and contemplating trbtronics, rather than praying to vishnu ?

12:50

because i can.

12:50

but can also these other things.

12:51

why did the man get out of bed ? he could stay in bed, regress to childhood and whatever, paint posters to show mommy.

12:51

yes, i can also these other things.

12:51

*

asciilifeform swaps gas mask cartridge

12:52

why did the shark swim when it could stop?

12:52

(ever wondered, btw, why some men favour ugly, unattractive women ? the freudian explanation is exactly above - they seek to reunite with mother, in which case sexual appeal is a hindrance not an asset.)

12:52

trinque shark swims to breathe tho.

12:52

right, I know

12:53

https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march << lulzy wankage in commentz

12:53

BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 16 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )

12:53

"why does it feel good to will things into being?"

12:53

was this dear old nubs?

12:53

who ?

12:53

bbet anons raging

12:53

ask the dumb hill-climbing optimizer?

12:53

i dunno.

12:54

trinque possibly the least offensive koan of the lot is the one with "why did i rescue the scorpion ? it is my nature!"

12:54

rarely was i so happy to hear of a monk's demise.

12:55

there are many fables where a scorpion kills a man, but is this actually possible ?

12:55

i think some but not most are venomous enough.

12:55

(short of allergic shock)

12:55

of course - a bee can kill a man, if it's the right bee and the right man.

12:55

aha.

12:55

http://transform.to/~dragondm/lit/koans << heh not bad

12:55

404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1pukQsF )

12:55

penultimate

12:57

bad restating. they took out the dying part - very indicative of the cocksucker sort they are.

12:59

who's they

13:00

translator?

13:00

they is teh community.

13:00

mno. the numerous lee sedols of that pointless boardgame.

13:03

speaking of

13:03

i'm kinda surprised the whiners aren't here yet

13:03

(re bbet)

13:03

bar too high ?

13:04

<+asciilifeform>was this dear old nubs? << nope, i have more pressing concerns than anonymously trolling bitbet comments

13:04

also, shipping dept managed to get crate delivered for half of what i quoted you, so plz PM signed refund address at your convenience

13:08

nubbins`: i will ! ty

13:09

nubbins`: soon as i get home.

13:09

i'd considered sending you a mystery prize but figured that'd be a bit too fast & loose

13:09

l0l

13:10

i actually considered buying some b00kz from nubbins`

13:10

but now i am too p00r.

13:10

ftr i enjoyed the photos from 'whale & other disorders.'

13:11

tyvm!

13:11

most of the contributors attempted to refuse some of their payment

13:12

"this is too much, i'm not joking"

13:13

in terms of retail value, we handed out $10k worth of books to contributing artists

13:13

i was a bit :0 when i did the math

13:14

nubbins`: actually ok to tx back to originating addr

~ 33 minutes ~

13:48

mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself?

13:51

*

trinque gets a vpatch

~ 17 minutes ~

14:08

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-wrong-kind-of-victory.html?m=1 << orl0l

14:08

ClubOrlov: The wrong kind of victory ... ( http://bit.ly/22mIx3T )

14:09

where he discovers turkeydollarz...

~ 18 minutes ~

14:27

http://dpaste.com/0YKDMWF << miserablol

14:27

dpaste: 0YKDMWF ... ( http://bit.ly/1UgeARG )

14:30

*

trinque will put his awk shitwaders on later

14:34

anyhow, looks like polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch needs rebasing

14:37

http://dpaste.com/34Y62T4.txt << these press

14:37

... ( http://bit.ly/1R3zduP )

14:41

http://dpaste.com/179T4JC.txt << bad press with polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch

14:41

... ( http://bit.ly/1R3zL3M )

14:49

wb funkenstein_

14:49

greetings trinque :)

14:50

i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment

14:50

copper lark was first i saw to use it

15:01

funkenstein_: keccak-with-hash-over-arbitrary-blocks-pulled-from-chain

15:01

('proof of storage')

15:01

as per mircea_popescu's article

15:03

which part of that article is worth discussing?

15:04

its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought

15:05

trinque: yeah, polarbeard_better_log_messages depends on a conflicting patchset

15:06

trinque: specifically, http://btcbase.org/hash/02CCC72E42939509FC180861DB7FFEC50563A84869F35671FCF720090F9782674EDCC89C4174175691566FAC7277F1EBE0F50253D1E4A995EB960F5B43CCE2A3

15:06

patches for hash 02CCC72E42939509FC180861DB7FFEC50563A84869F35671FCF720090F9782674EDCC89C4174175691566FAC7277F1EBE0F50253D1E4A995EB960F5B43CCE2A3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1UA4udk )

15:07

depends on deprecated asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum's version of main.cpp

15:08

funkenstein_: which problems ?

15:08

and this one too http://btcbase.org/hash/BB842420BCC67752EDF8E658524B135F499C5F8676557A6C12F47F204303E34BD73BEABDF6E9146BA452947C4E5CD298529969FAB90F16942F6BF0C1229F7043, asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring which is also deprecated

15:08

see jurov's comment

15:08

funkenstein_: i mean, ~other~ than it being a hardphork

15:08

funkenstein_: link plox ?

15:09

trinque: i say, press to polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file, then patch -p1 < polarbeard_better_log_messages, then vpatch the result, then do same for polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc. that's sort of easiest, fastest way to regrind

15:10

http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116397

15:10

The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UEI3BP )

15:11

;;later tell shinohai pls to submit it

15:11

The operation succeeded.

15:12

Here it is BingoBoingo but ill have to resubmit, stoopid Obama went and named someone else to scotus. http://dpaste.com/3164N6J.txt

15:12

... ( http://bit.ly/1UA5xtD )

15:12

pls do that then

~ 17 minutes ~

15:30

;;later tell mircea_popescu https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1183 << i had nfi this existed. a whole own poetteringism, hilarious, touches ~all binaries on affected pseudolinuxen, ruins aslr and number of other things, random (!) crashes, ardent defenders (ahaha), etc.

15:30

#1183 (Don't enable prelink by default in Fedora) – FESCo ... ( http://bit.ly/1R3GSt1 )

15:30

The operation succeeded.

15:32

uh.

15:37

the comments are mindblowing.

15:42

http://lwn.net/Articles/341244 << drepperism!

15:42

Is pre-linking worth it? [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1R3Iv9X )

15:43

^ worth reading for the commentz

15:44

what is pre-linking ?

15:44

*

mircea_popescu discovers that he can't rightly say what fedora even is. is it what, a distro ? some sort of centos ?

15:44

what ?

15:45

fedora is opensource kitchen for redhat

15:45

ah right.

15:46

mircea_popescu: there is no legit thing called prelinking

15:46

it is a poetteringization of the ordinary glibc execution process

15:46

and prelinking is writing directly to the binaries/ dynamic libs what virtual memory address are they going and which addresses can all the other depending libraries found at

15:46

where the items, having been linked dynamically, are pseudo-staticized periodically (!) by a cron job

15:46

badly.

15:46

my meagre understanding of computing doesn't allow me to discern the intended meaning.

15:46

"pre fuck" i can imagine what'd be. pre linking... no.

15:47

uh

15:47

mircea_popescu: it is a highly bizarre idiot hack nominally to 'save cycles' but really 'because ftmeade asked'

15:47

but what does it do ?

15:47

and this being unusually transparent, in a cartoon way

15:47

basically it's like "printf has address 0x000002254fe5450"

15:48

and every binary that calls it gets written this addy in it

15:48

sometimes hoses entire box, see epic http://lwn.net/Articles/340121

15:48

Why people don't test development distributions [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1UAbLd8 )

15:48

what

15:48

mircea_popescu: it is sorta like a cache for dynamic linking

15:48

or claims to be.

15:49

i see.

15:49

today it exists at all only in the most direly diseased pseudolinuxen

15:49

so what it this supposed to achieve for the putative enemy, make proper allocation impossible or what ?

15:50

mircea_popescu: it gives excuse to munge every single executable on the box

15:50

also demolishes aslr

15:50

and creates a number of other interesting difficulties

15:50

ah right because stuff like hashes no longer mean anything\

15:50

so what is this, excel-polymorphism ?

15:50

it's supposed to avoid determining where the actual printf is located every time you run some program, which can be solved byt other and better means

15:51

discussing an item like this is almost like anatomizing a teratoma

15:51

as if it were an actual animal

15:51

it is quite far from whatever actual purpose it was conceived for.

15:52

hey, anatomizing teratoma is exactly how noobs learn cytopathology etc.

15:52

aha!

15:52

hence why i put it on the dissection table here.

15:53

why the cron job

15:53

shouldn't this run at the beginning every time ?

15:53

it does.

15:53

and then again, and again...

15:53

WHAT IF YOU HAVE NEW BINARY!111111

15:53

then let me run it first ?

15:53

that must be victi^H^H^Hoptimized

15:53

Hoptimized lol

15:54

hopetimized.

15:54

changimized.

15:55

asciilifeform inasmuch as he steal speaks of "its money", orlov doesn't actually get the turkey dollars thing. he earnestly thinks that there is ONE kind of usdollar, and PART of that one is "wasted". whereas the situation in the field is that there's two kinds, ands the bezzle part can only be bezzled with.

15:55

but anyway.

15:55

anyway prelink was supposed to solve problem of 'why linux box takes multiple minutes to boot'

15:55

via plugging wrong end of funnel, naturally

15:55

who the fuck boots them

15:55

no one (tm) would ever, say, remove the idiot sea of crud

15:55

i still don't get this. all this derpage from the early days of systemd "it makes servers boot faster"

15:55

dude...

15:55

that takes up the boot time

15:55

not servers.

15:56

this was an actual argument illo tempore.

15:56

but anyway, who reboots linux.

15:56

laptop folk

15:56

they have no working sleep mode, recall.

15:56

if a box goes down trying to figure wtf takes 10x to 100x longer than it takes t oboot

15:56

typically.

15:56

fuck laptop folk.

15:56

they're pre-fucked, the notion was to slightly unfuck'em

15:57

no. stop interfering with god's will.

15:57

they deserve to suffer for their portasins.

15:57

(it was 100% fraudulent, as you might expect)

15:58

" It spends it on a bunch of aircraft carrier groups. These are very useful for launching attacks on defenseless countries. But it is very important to keep these aircraft carriers outside of conflict zones that may involve China or Russia, or even Iran, because each of these countries has several cost-effective ways to destroy an aircraft carrier: ballistic missiles, supersonic cruise missiles and supersonic torped

15:58

oes. The entire aircraft carrier fleet is obsolete, and is another huge waste of money." <<< aaaaactually... romania has the capacity to sink us carriers. so does israel. so does brazil

15:58

so does half the fucking world already. it's not 1990 anymoar.

16:00

funkenstein_ merciless mercantile morals!

16:00

lol re aegis-khibiny thing tho. funny how that's not at all discussed in english huh.

16:00

<+asciilifeform>nubbins`: actually ok to tx back to originating addr << 10-4

16:02

mircea_popescu: pretty sure everybody knows about the surface torpedo etc

16:02

prolly the russians just elbowed the something or other.

16:02

it officially Unexists for the purpose of the comical 'war games' the pentagon conducts.

16:04

and of fucking course the army of dead empire is the nest of corruption. wtf. jannissary corps v2.0

16:04

i forgot what the chinese thing was called, but anyway.

16:04

one look at the boats and it is pretty obvious that their purpose is ~not~ to fight in battles

16:05

but to move inventory

16:05

logic being, if it burns down and takes 30 f-whateverthefuck planes to the bottom of the sea, so much the better! buy moar!

16:06

;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ?

16:06

The operation succeeded.

16:09

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434522 << how much is it ?

16:09

Logged on 16-03-2016 18:50:31; funkenstein_: i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment

16:10

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434528 << you thought wrong. a bunch of nobodies declared idiocies about things in their head, generally on reddit/medium/wherever they gather.

16:10

Logged on 16-03-2016 19:04:24; funkenstein_: its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought

16:15

<asciilifeform> ;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ? << WHAT?!?

16:15

BingoBoingo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-take-third-brother-into-custody-in-shooting-of-police-officer/2016/03/14/74b97f36-e9e6-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html

16:15

Brothers filmed attack on police station that left officer dead, authorities say - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1PctO2i )

16:16

etc

16:16

schmuck walks into police station, spins round and round For Piglet

16:16

cops then open up, killing at least one among selves

16:16

shooter's brothers film whole thing.

16:18

Interesting mortadella there, will qntra unless you direly want to do it

16:18

BingoBoingo: as usual, take it

16:18

i have nothing.

16:19

Ok, I just suggest it because I know few things as refreshing for the mind as digging into an especially lulzy incident for qntra.

16:19

i would do 10,001 things if had time but i do not,sadly.

16:19

(things incl this)

16:34

asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/02258P0.txt << deturdified that article for you

16:37

neato

16:39

asciilifeform so wait, an hero killed no-one, police did all the murderin' ?

16:40

asciilifeform: I also found this on LTM within neural nets: http://colah.github.io/posts/2015-08-Understanding-LSTMs/ << It looks as if LTM is possible but pretty complex (gates within the NN itself)

16:41

asciilifeform: Any idea where the video is? I can't seem to find it on "World Star Hiphop"

16:41

BingoBoingo: nfi

16:41

mircea_popescu: correct

16:46

[Qntra] Aspiring 'An Hero' Survives Police Station Assault - http://qntra.net/2016/03/aspiring-an-hero-survives-police-station-assault/

16:46

lol

16:46

Just to be pedantic 'An Hero' is the technical term for anyone acting with intent to off themselves

16:47

In this sense Ford was a failure

16:47

aha.

16:47

Meanwhile Lavoy Finicum was a hero because he was fighting the powah

16:48

;;google an hero

16:48

An Hero | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/an-hero>; Urban Dictionary: an hero: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=an+hero>; An hero - Encyclopedia Dramatica: <https://encyclopediadramatica.se/An_hero>

16:51

maybe he an hero'd by pretending to reach for a weapon

16:51

i think this is called "an hero by cop"

16:52

By running the initial blockade Finicum was clearly excercising his duty to evade in an effort to continue the fight later

16:52

Also the FBI did squeeze of a couple shots before his hands went anywhere near his waistband

16:57

;;bc,stats

16:57

16:58

;;nethash

16:58

1218294335.6

16:59

jurov done.

16:59

ty!

17:02

[Qntra] America Rejected By All But Its Worst - http://qntra.net/2016/03/america-rejected-by-all-but-its-worst/

17:06

BingoBoingo: where do i get the correct lsd to digest that article.

17:07

BingoBoingo, you saw the footage from inside the Lavoy Finicum mobile?

17:17

funkenstein_: decline to comment

17:17

asciilifeform: Which?

17:19

asciilifeform: If you are talking Kasich the correct lsd is the one that extracts lulz from setting the man up to fail.

17:20

BingoBoingo: life - or what passes for life - in usaschwitz - happens on the coasts.

17:20

I don't know anything of these coasts.

17:21

The Bahamas gang's reign is ending and the electoral progress is a mess in an effort to rig the contest in Clitler's favor. Qntra however has to prepare for lulztingencies. Among these is a contested convention.

17:23

Seriously though I know nothing of Coastal life in USia

17:25

I know places where actual food happens seasonally and mass food is recycled in the fields though the Corn Cycle. I rightly can't believe the Coast or Death phenomenon as anything other than a form of Stockholm syndrome.

17:25

join #verge

17:26

shit

17:39

;;ticker --market all

17:40

Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.37, vol: 4238.65955648 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.825, vol: 5827.13841 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 417.17, vol: 6827.4166771 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.962284, vol: 23502.07510000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 417.335, vol: 1466.60524061 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 424.402224, vol: 61.35244944 | Volume-weighted last average: 418.104775095

17:40

;;more

17:40

Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.

17:51

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/20030701/nth-country.pdf << historic lulz (unrelated.)

17:51

... ( http://bit.ly/1S4POAE )

17:51

(warning: massive scan)

~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~

18:55

http://phys.org/news/2016-03-storks-winter-migration-favor-junk.html

18:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p72KRQwYeMo

Storks give up on winter migration in favor of junk food ... ( http://bit.ly/2552Jtv )

19:03

mats

19:03

Failed Attack Of Russian Terrorists On Ukrainian Armed Forces. (English subtitles) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/2553tyF )

19:04

In other news Orange Clinton is threatening riots if the RNC convention denies him the nomination

19:12

that's a new one.

19:12

who the fuck is supposed to have made that youtube video ?

19:13

"directly to that bush" ? srsly ?

19:15

nobody can be this inept. "armed forces" ? ffs.

19:23

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00042004 = 8.9679 BTC [-] {2}

19:34

mats

amateur hour

19:41

o/

19:42

<+trinque> mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself? << hey, uumm... so yeah, i think it does tell you which one barfed on press. did you use (v | verbose) in there? or have a dpaste of what it did?

19:44

also: /bin/sh: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string << i think you can resolve this locally by installing gawk

19:45

anyway, I see you patch, thanks for posting. when I get around to making another version of V, i'll throw that in there.

19:45

s/you/your/

19:46

k, ty

19:47

mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque phf, et. al., I've been mulling it over while i've been following the logs for some days now about what seems like a good fork to have in our possession: at this point, im inclined to think implementation of Mr. P.'s outlined ideas are the best choice, currently.

19:49

However, my main objective is still to finish up the v054 release before diving into any of that quite yet. It's my fault, I havent done jack-shit all month basically. I've been meaning to work with trinque and get these makefiles battle-ready, but have had a number of meatspace things get in the way.

19:54

eh no matter of fault mod6

19:54

the thing is, the more features the putative fork has, the better, i suppose.

19:55

except by features i don't mean "features". obviously.

19:55

hehe, ofc.

19:55

healing the relay-miner divide, if in fact the thing on trilema does it, would be a great one.

19:55

but possibly there's other easy fruit to pick

19:55

too bad i constantly strangle the easy fruit pickers. if only they fucking picked in THAT direction ffs.

19:56

mod6: Mr P.'s outlined ideas would benefit from deeper adversarial analysis, maybe it comes out it's possible only 1000 times slower using rainbow tables or other techniques I proposed in the comments

19:56

jurov quite so.

19:56

dja understand the amended form we came to well ?

19:56

jurov: ah, very much so.

19:56

maybe it'd benefit from a going over once more.

19:57

yes pls

19:57

i like what i've read, more analysis and discussion of implementation decisions are required for sure. i think we'll get there as this thread continues over the next 45 days.

19:58

ok. so currently, for every block being mined : a header is calculated ; to this a nonce is added, the combine hashed. the resultant hash has to be smaller than a number to qualify as a found block.

19:58

word ?

19:58

yes

19:58

ya.

19:58

in the proposed model : a header is calculated, same way. to this, anonce is added, the combine hashed. this is hash 1. a digest is calculated, on the basis of past blocks. to this, the SAME nonce is added. the combine hashed. this is hash 2

19:59

BOTH hash 1 and hash 2 have to be under a number to qualify as a found block.

20:00

ok and this goes back to the discussion this am right? re: sha(header+nonce) AND sha(digest+nonce) ? or did i read that wrong?

20:00

how is the digest from past blocks done?

20:00

it does. i specifically left the "hashing" undefined. it can be defined so both use sha3. or first stays as is and 2nd sha3. etc.

20:00

this is a twistable knob.

20:00

jurov the digest from past blocks is done like so :

20:01

out of every Nth preceding block, the nonce-th byte is put in a string ; the combine hashed.

20:01

N is another twistable knob. can be 1, can be whatever.

20:02

see footnote 2, example : http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#footnote_1_64828

20:02

The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S52R51 )

20:02

ah right.

20:03

and yet another twistable knob exists : the nonce may be shifted before taking the nonceth element.

20:03

it's too bad we're so time constrained on this, it'd be nice to see a poc of both : with shifting and without.

20:04

knob 1 above decides whether to obsolete current miners entirely or just partially, and is a [true] soft vs hard fork ; knob 2 decides how much i/o pressure to put on relay nodes ; knob 3 decides how much relay work to require in the mix.

20:04

well, i guess one could just add in the shifting and then make it a toggleable things.

20:04

-s

20:05

mod6 it's not entirely impossible to make the shifting a function of difficulty differential (note that there isn't a rule BOTH hashes have to be under THE SAME number. if there's two numbers, you could have an equalizer algo that does the shift moving)

20:05

but, obviously - the more moving parts, the more problems.

20:05

well then my comment still applies - miner can keep the nonce constant and churn hash1 by changing one transaction in a cycle

20:06

jurov how ? his hash2 won't change.

20:07

ah that

20:07

my modeling shows it'd be way the fuck cheaper to calculate nonce blocks than to try and churn merkel trees

20:07

now, your observation is correct in that this possibility puts a hard limit on how much miners can be raped.

20:07

but i don't think SUCH hard rape is contemplated at all.

20:07

just... a little breather for nodes.

20:08

the thing is, currently nodes only need disk ; cpu is wasted. ideally a node should use both, so that it makes sense to keep boxes as relay nodes.

20:09

all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs.

↖ ↖

20:10

we need like a tmsr stenographer.

20:10

lol. i dunno, there is the search here.

20:10

there's wiki

20:10

yeah, but i can't ever find shit. and these details are too important to be lost.

20:10

yeah.

20:11

unless we use a flag, like BUTTSECKS.

20:11

then we search for that flag, and we see exactly where we should for whatever important topic.

20:11

wrap every important detail in a buttsekcs condom ?

20:11

hah, yes.

20:12

dare i say, that I would lay out 10 BTC, 2 BTC per year for someone to handle this task.

20:13

hell, i'd do it myself, but there's no way i can keep up with that too.

20:13

first foundation expenditure ?

20:13

naw, this is a mod6 request.

20:13

so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it.

20:13

the foundation makes money by not spending any.

20:13

better that way.

20:14

and holy shit b-a is hiring like crazy, where are all the people looking for jerbs,

20:14

<+mircea_popescu> so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it. << i guess i could just do that.

20:15

be like rockefeller you know ?

20:15

ben_vulpes: any thoughts on this? If I dump 10 BTC to the foundation, will you approve 2BTC/yr for a stenographer?

20:15

course the other end is harder. who can even do a good job of this.

20:16

bingo.

20:16

hanbot

20:16

hm

20:16

jurov (who's got too much other shit to do)

20:16

yeah maybe she could huh

20:16

asciilifeform (who is one arm shy of this job)

20:16

shinohai perhaps

20:17

I'd even say TomServo or thestringpuller would be good candidates as well. Any wot regs.

20:18

*

shinohai applies

20:18

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434765 <<< blawg?

20:18

Logged on 17-03-2016 00:09:59; mod6: all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs.

20:18

yeah but it's a certain sort of job for a certain sorta person.

20:18

shinohai you got the patience to stick with it ?

20:19

davout by all means, you got one neh ? :D

20:19

what would stenographer need to do?

20:19

i saw this one coming :D

20:19

write down a summary of all the important shit.

20:19

The key to this job is to save the really succint details of technical discussions surrouding future development. Needs just the right amount of information, too much will be cumbersome.

20:19

sorta like a careful bash of technical discussions rather than lulz.

20:19

right.

20:19

that exactly.

20:20

!b 3

20:20

Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0TKYJM2.txt )

20:20

so make a state of therealbitcoin address for dummies?

20:20

lol

20:20

heheheh

20:20

shinohai no more like keep the notes organised so mod6 doesn't go blind looking for where the fuck i said about knobs and where was it.

20:20

shinohai: eh, I'd say more like a really well kept-up wiki, but yea, that's kinda the idea.

20:20

actially a wiki format prolly IS best for this,

20:21

because lets people to fix your shit if needed.

20:21

mod6 word.

20:21

WHY DOES EVERYONE IN THIS CHAN STEAL MY IDEAS ALL THE TIME

20:21

right before i get to say them!

20:21

*nod* yeah, needs to be editable in a way incase of mis-quote or something.

20:21

like... http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/tmsr

20:21

tmsr [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1XYs04a )

20:21

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434782 << l0l i know where

20:21

Logged on 17-03-2016 00:14:09; mircea_popescu: and holy shit b-a is hiring like crazy, where are all the people looking for jerbs,

20:21

they are in my yard

20:21

eating from plastic bowl

20:21

cats !?

20:22

yo cwazy.

20:22

except they aren't people but catz

20:22

jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure. the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there.

20:22

cause who else lives on 2btc!

20:22

and for the record alf you stole my v idea too!

20:22

which

20:22

i dunno, they were all good.

20:22

well, no one said you were gonna live off of 2 BTC a year, unless you live on the dock and eat fish-heads for dinner every night.

20:23

but it's a hell of a lot more than you get when you just volunteer for some shit.

20:23

one does not live ON btc. one lives FOR btc.

20:23

^^^

20:23

*nod*

20:23

ask not what yer country can do for you!

20:23

for currently, it can at most get you in trouble, and that if you're lucky.

20:24

I'd even be open to the idea of two people splitting up the work there. Say, split 2BTC/yr between 2 individuals so that we get good coverage at all times.

20:25

Work amongst yourselves to decide who's on duty when so you don't have to worry if out of town or at whorehouse or whatever.

20:25

*

asciilifeform reads logz to see wtf this even was

20:26

BingoBoingo WORLDSTARHIPHOP < ?

20:26

dude it's gotten so bad ~i~ have to ask for tmsr-pravda articles be translated.

20:26

*

asciilifeform misreads as 'wordstar hiphop'

20:26

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434837 < the very same btc said to be worthless/useless/br0kended a couple of days ago

20:26

Logged on 17-03-2016 00:23:07; mircea_popescu: one does not live ON btc. one lives FOR btc.

20:26

aha a separate hashing of solely the proof of storage digest, this looks like it could work

20:27

kakobrekla: neh, the other btc

20:27

kakobrekla: if you don't like the weather, just wait a few days.

20:27

kakobrekla slightly not the same.

20:27

:P

20:27

but do link with the quotes.

20:27

could be added in a la myriad, with separate difficulty

20:27

funkenstein_ what is this myriad ?

20:28

*

mircea_popescu is starting to suspect this lecherous dwarf may be the only one who cavorted with the scamcoins enough.

20:28

its a coin with multiple difficulties for each hash function they use

20:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30592 @ 0.00041989 = 12.8453 BTC [-] {2}

20:28

hehe, likely guilty as charged

20:29

im sorry what other btc, the non existing one ?

20:29

afaik the real bitcoin foundation collects btc not imaginary btc (at least bbet was sending those)

20:29

!s worthless

20:29

499 results for 'worthless' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=worthless

20:30

kakobrekla: the one which nobody ended up dumping massive qty of, the price of - not tanked, etc

20:31

*

funkenstein_ retracts myriad scheme suggestion, it is broken

20:31

lel

20:32

shock.

20:32

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434864 <<< obligatory >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqT2uOa1-d0

20:32

Logged on 17-03-2016 00:29:57; mircea_popescu: !s worthless

20:32

The Brave Little Toaster - Worthless (No Interruptions) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlDtv1 )

20:33

no but srsly. am i gonna also !s "dump massive" or you get the point.

20:35

so in this suggested coin you have proof a pool operator (aka miner) has a full copy of the block chain

20:35

aha.

20:36

l0l lavabit case unsealed

20:38

(unrelated)

20:39

ben_vulpes

mod6: could be convinced

20:40

ok, cool

20:44

https://cryptome.org/2016/03/usg-lavabit-unsealed.pdf << mega-turd

20:45

meanwhile, at #eulora : http://dpaste.com/29BJV3V

20:45

dpaste: 29BJV3V ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlElzH )

20:46

the court transcript is pure circus

20:46

worthy of freisler

20:46

mircea_popescu: btw, pls to read last x.eur statement, contains statement of collateral to be certified by mpex

20:46

which was the lavabit ?

20:47

davout i did read it. you had 40 btc deposited iirc, neh ?

20:47

mircea_popescu: cryptome link, scan

20:47

asciilifeform no i know, but which was it ?

20:47

mircea_popescu: yes

20:47

alrighty then.

20:48

pg 80 iirc

20:48

danke schön

20:48

oh oh the email thing, i recall now

20:48

aha.

20:48

the usg-gets-paper-masterkey one

20:48

yaya

20:51

i don't get all these people participating in "sealed" pseudo-legal proceedings.

20:51

there is no justice outside of the public forum. if party can not speak in public, it may not pretend like it has a case.

20:52

bbbbbbut s333333kr1tz!11111

20:52

tough titty.

20:52

don't engage in activities you're ashamed of.

20:52

if you do - don't come to me to bail you out when they blow up.

20:52

that'd be ~all of this here zimbabwestan aha.

20:54

and at any rate none of these folks work in 'justice' business, they work in 'societal security' aka hitler's service.

20:54

aha.

20:54

sucks to be them, i guess.

20:54

asciilifeform how long did you live in zimbabwe?

20:55

funkenstein_: the great zimbabwe of usistan

20:55

he lives in washington dc and doesn't care for term propriety.

20:55

'92 - present

20:56

train stations still closed !

20:56

so you are comparing usistan to a place you know nothing about?

20:56

eh whadda ya need 'em for.

20:56

you ever been funkenstein_ ?

20:56

nope

20:56

aok.

20:57

but he is very ready to 'you know nothing' aha.

20:57

i think he dislikes your cultural imperialism.

20:57

you seem to like talking about it, i assumed you'd been there

20:57

"in my mind - i've been many times"

20:58

funkenstein_: rhodesiana aficionado

20:58

:) cool

20:58

what, zimbabwe is in rhodesia ?!

20:58

funkenstein_: and of subj of countries-not-on-the-map-no-moar overall

20:59

get a new map if you need one

20:59

http://www.newzimbabwe.com/news-28242-Zim+embassy+buildings+in+ruins+Parly+hears/news.aspx kinda lulzy.

20:59

Zim embassy buildings in ruins: Parly hears ... ( http://bit.ly/21vZ5nW )

20:59

mircea_popescu: ==

21:01

lol, with thumbs up even

21:02

<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo WORLDSTARHIPHOP < ? << It's basically black youtube for fights and shit

21:02

aok

21:04

and in other dribbles, http://40.media.tumblr.com/8994722978b9ab1525d2899ed7c7d611/tumblr_mir1m6gTvy1s40vqwo1_1280.jpg

21:04

... ( http://bit.ly/1RlFFCL )

21:05

Anyways worldstar isn't a tmsr thing, it's more an internet thing. basically If you sucker punch someone it is normally assault. If you shout "World Star" while you do it, it becomes instead a prank.

21:05

ah i remember now.

21:09

Just one of those black privilege things

~ 28 minutes ~

21:38

;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/3RR5F37.txt << have another lul

21:38

... ( http://bit.ly/1QZjTkM )

21:38

The operation succeeded.

~ 24 minutes ~

22:02

http://www.elweb.cz/fotky/400.jpg << interesting serendipitous find. a cpu-less rs232 viewer (some brain required!111) i thought about this very thing some years ago, and laughed it off mentally, but someone - built.

22:02

... ( http://bit.ly/255iz7q )

22:02

kakobrekla ^ one step beyond mere 'data diode' !

22:06

that look like shift register, "some brain" indeed

22:06

to read output!

22:06

not to build.

22:06

that's what i mean

22:07

aha interesting concept but missing a lot to make it practically useful

22:07

i can't be arsed to figure out presently whether this eats start/stop-bits correctly.

22:07

kakobrekla: you get the basic idea tho

22:07

you read output by counting lit up leds

22:08

at transmission rate

22:08

well no, it shifts'em in

22:08

so read at leisure.

22:09

message better be short.

22:09

i've thought for many years about such tools. decomputerize, if you will, as much of the critical 'nuke launch' loop as possible.

22:10

(for whatever your nuke is. pgp, bitcoin, whatevers)

22:11

in the old dayz, you could actually buy eprom burners that were not, in the ordinary sense, computerized

22:11

as in, toggle buttons.

22:11

to input each word.

22:11

and lamps - to read.

22:14

su avionics were predominantly analogue, including space stuff, like trajectory calucations, until quite late in the game

22:16

but i rarely see "sophisticated" systems outside of cute hacks like that rs232 visualizer. presumably have to be doing this stuff full time for years, with the explicit goal of solving computing problems using analogue means

~ 25 minutes ~

22:41

asciilifeform awww.

22:42

mircea_popescu: l0ltr0nic

22:42

phf et al: to continue the eprom thread, i was never satisfied with the lights box answer to 'how to keep rom burner from lying'. what i really want is a photographic rom, where the storage die is something like 'microdot' and the reader is generic (in chip package) & separable.

22:42

microdot is trivial to reproduce reliably

22:43

100 y.o. tech.

22:43

bonus if the photo slide is ~composable~

22:43

microdot?

22:43

i.e. i can insert >1 on top of one another.

22:43

microdot.

22:43

ah, ok, got it

22:44

the ultimate vpatch !

22:44

anyway this is page [redacted] from ye old 'coffin notebook'.

22:45

presented here because thread.

22:45

this is a borderline art project

22:45

^

22:46

it is in re the 'specificity of diddling' thing.

22:46

enemy can embed extra mosfet in the reader, or whatever, but how does he know ~where~, etc.

22:46

kind of stuff i'd see come out of martin howse's workshop (and his people)

22:46

(and say i can hook up N of these, and the net result is xor of the lot!)

22:47

^ then they can contain literally ~anything~ and still produce my intended bitstring.

22:47

dude, the "enemy" has enough trouble finding its own arse.

22:47

defending against hypothetical lizard alf

22:47

enemy can be persuaded to make a good faith effort to at least occasionally find his arse

22:47

esp. if we keep kicking him in it.

22:47

but not much more.

22:48

anyway hopefully everyone understands against whom my designs are actually made.

22:48

and in other borderline art project news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/3470835acf69ddd9f2d81b5c341340d5/tumblr_ntnoh08fJz1s3qr6wo1_1280.jpg

22:48

... ( http://bit.ly/1pMLuwQ )

22:48

they are built with the assumption that i will eventually be cokemachined personally and somehow made to fight for the nazis.

22:48

it is a dismal thing, to play chess with self.

22:49

srsly.

22:49

but how else.

22:49

gurlz!

22:49

not like i got anybody worth playing.

22:49

l0l

22:50

phf: i am long-time fan of howse.

22:50

though i know him as '1010'

22:51

oh, ok, now things make even more sense

22:52

'The Dark Interpreter is influenced and guided by body capacitance, skin resistance, biological micro-voltages and the fleshy conduction of all signals. These are ways of saying that the Dark Interpreter is completely open. It is not to be considered as a closed and bounded device which is subject to an exterior control "by the body." The Dark Interpreter is an electronic and thus earthy shadow of the body, it is (inside) the

22:52

body. The Dark Interpreter is thus not to be controlled. It is an obsidian electronic mirror, the earth and skin itself.' << i lack the wordz.

22:54

'Inspired in part by a cursory reading of Kafka's short story, In the Penal Colony, in which a complex executable mechanism, its workings and social procedure, are described, a mechanism which inscribes the sentence (of the law) directly on the skin of the 'Condemned Man', pain registers attempts to directly translate or transfer the operational codes which are running on a computer's CPU (Central Processing Unit) in 'real tim

22:54

e' (whilst a common program such as the Firefox web browser is running) into the slow and painful inscription of a needle, piercing the skin of the operator or user's hand. A particular, common operational code such as that dictating the movement of the contents of one place in memory to another location, results in the needle achieving a certain depth in the hand, another opcode, say demanding the addition of two values, migh

22:54

t barely touch the skin of the hand. The repetitive rhythms of changing operational codes, as an application for example initialises its opening state, are translated into the hypnotic, up and down movements of the needle (making use in the second prototype of a CD-ROM ejection mechanism), appearing somewhat like the slowed, jerked motions of a sewing machine.'

22:54

^ mega-art.

22:54

i have not, it turns out, been keeping up with the fella.

22:54

why isn't he here, again?!1111

22:54

'If codes can fuck your computer, where’s the porn that depicts them?' << him

22:55

hanbot

mod6:

22:55

hanbot

jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure. the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there. << i'd be happy to help out however i can. how far back do you see this having to go btw?

22:58

http://www.1010.co.uk/org/psplague.html << glorious

22:58

psplague ... ( http://bit.ly/1XwydmB )

22:59

'Inspired by Julian Oliver's psworld, psplague further explores the links between environment (simulation) and code. Rather than mapping a computer's internal processes onto visual features in the world (as in the case of psworld), in this instance (psplague) UNIX-like processes are attached to medieval villagers within a simple SIR (susceptible, infected, recovered) model of plague infection. When a villager becomes infected

22:59

and dies after a period of time, the attached process running on the computer is terminated or killed. Warning: psplague can result in a more or less instantaneous hard crash.'

23:06

unrelatedly,

23:06

continuing levison thread >>> https://archive.is/5tCtf

23:06

Ladar Levison - As many of you already know, the government cited... ... ( http://bit.ly/1XwzoCG )

23:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00042133 = 8.4266 BTC [+] {2}

23:10

back to the microdot,

23:10

b&w photography is ULTRA EASY

23:10

even in JUNGLE CONDITIONS

23:10

i periodically revisit his page for inspiration, but i suspect that's he's probably some form of northern european anarcho leftist, which now's been fashionable long enough to perhaps swing back to fascism again. in other words he will probably find b-a rhetoric toxic. but i'm guessing from spending much time with other members of that crowd

23:10

it is the caustics, heavy metals, cleanroom, etc. that suck donkey cock

23:10

for all i know he wear leather boots and listens to martial industrial..

23:11

but these possibly can be commoditized into a thing that contains no logic as such

23:11

but simply takes a piece of film.

23:11

phf: actually i see him as something more like a lacan who dropped out of physics, or the like

23:13

hanbot: hi, cool. probably would have to go back to at least the beginning of this whole hard/soft fork discussion i'd think.

23:14

punkman

"We didn’t see any of this happening,” Ramos said. “They’re saying Michael wanted to kill himself. We just don’t know.” She said that Michael Ford’s mother suffered a heart attack after police in Prince George’s burst into her house to search it following the shooting and that she is now at the same hospital as her son." << we just don't know, lol

23:14

that makes ... 2? 3? usg-authored corpses in the case now ?

23:14

4 ?

23:14

punkman

oh wait I misread heart attack before station shooting

23:14

anyway, think it over for a bit. i'll get some coins into the foundation in a few days and then will try to write something up that can be signed.

23:15

"if i cut the tape, he realized, my world will disappear. reality will continue for others, but not for me. because my reality, my universe, is coming to me from this minuscule unit. fed into the scanner and then into my central nervous system as it snailishly unwinds."

23:16

aha!

23:20

punkman

speakinf of film, I've thought of doing backups on microfilm reels. Small reel holds 5k A4 pages or something.

23:22

punkman: not sure if i ever viewed a microfilm reel without blots

23:22