Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-12-27 | 2014-12-29 → ↓
00:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53750 @ 0.00066819 = 35.9152 BTC [+] {2}
~ 1 hours 34 minutes ~
01:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29279 @ 0.00067355 = 19.7209 BTC [+] {4}
02:05 cazalla nuva plane going missing, air asia this time, fkn putin wtf bro
~ 18 minutes ~
02:24 ben_vulpes planes are safe man
02:25 ben_vulpes airborne lusitania in 2015?
02:29 cazalla fuck that, rather take a boat
02:32 cazalla not too fussed on flying myself, last time coming in to sydney from perth, was in for some chop, 5 by 5
02:34 cazalla missus is already trying to organise some disney land belly of beast bullshit a few years time to go to america, fuck thaaat
~ 18 minutes ~
02:52 ben_vulpes resist, cazalla!
02:53 cazalla well 1) they wouldn't let me in anyway, persona no grata 2) fucked if i would let her take my son into that viper pit without me
02:54 cazalla all this in the name of disney 'everything is made in china' world
02:55 ben_vulpes you're just letting her carry on with the disney fandom?
02:55 ben_vulpes "but they set such bad role models for young girls!"
02:55 ben_vulpes "and just look at gaston! you know the guy's a date rapist."
02:56 ben_vulpes etc etc
02:57 cazalla bah, it was her friend's idea and for 2018-2019 once they are older
02:57 cazalla surely bitcoin is more established by then that i don't have to backhand her on the idea
02:58 cazalla all this drama is on account of one of her friends currently en route to ussa and her crying that she has a kid, can't do shit atm
03:00 ben_vulpes if you don't say anything now she's going to take it as tacit agreement.
03:01 cazalla stop urging me to beat her ben_vulpes
03:02 cazalla that shit gets you arrested and your mug shot in the media here, parade around as hitler himself, god forbid you beat your wife
03:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.0006653 = 7.9836 BTC [-]
03:13 ben_vulpes a raised eyebrow should be enough for that disneyland nonsense
03:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56640 @ 0.00066127 = 37.4543 BTC [-] {3}
03:19 ben_vulpes beatings are for babes who buy into bdsm
03:22 cazalla not really a beating then eh
03:22 cazalla more like.. being playful
03:27 ben_vulpes ask his popescuity about it
03:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.0006757 = 22.5684 BTC [+] {2}
03:28 ben_vulpes i'm sure there are serious beatings and playful beatings
03:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1481 @ 0.001193 = 1.7668 BTC [+]
03:29 cazalla nah, sounds a bit gay to ask another man about his proclivities
03:31 cazalla anyway, missus will learn soon enough that the opportunity to go america, live the quiet life is long gone
03:31 * ben_vulpes blinks
03:32 cazalla the fuck do i know, had another bottle of sambuca this arvo
03:32 cazalla no news so what else can i do
~ 49 minutes ~
04:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00067027 = 3.9546 BTC [-]
~ 49 minutes ~
05:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20001 @ 0.00005488 = 1.0977 BTC [+] {2}
05:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17320 @ 0.00067027 = 11.6091 BTC [-]
05:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5735 @ 0.00066059 = 3.7885 BTC [-]
~ 38 minutes ~
06:01 BingoBoingo !up Vexual
06:01 Vexual hi
06:01 BingoBoingo Hai
06:03 Vexual qntra got any writings on bitpay?
06:04 BingoBoingo Vexual: We have one one the game they bought. Turns out it was very watchable. http://qntra.net/2014/12/bitcoin-bowl-recap-nc-state-wins-34-27/
06:04 assbot Bitcoin Bowl Recap: NC State Wins (34-27) | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Exqcsy )
06:06 Vexual cute
06:09 Vexual Makes me wonder if there was anything worth reading un the times of cypress when neo ran their ads
06:10 Vexual I accidentally encountered the cunts whilst blazingly drunk over xmas
06:12 cazalla how was ya xmas Vexual
06:14 Vexual pretty good, how was yours?
06:15 Vexual my gracious host seemingly ran out of booze and patience around the same time
06:16 cazalla was ok, nice lunch, home and booze, zzz
06:17 cazalla much like i need to go zzz now, polished off a bottle of sambuca again
~ 40 minutes ~
06:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20895 @ 0.00066601 = 13.9163 BTC [+] {2}
07:11 BingoBoingo !up HeySteve
07:11 BingoBoingo HeySteve: Long time no see
07:20 BingoBoingo !up gabriel_laddel
07:21 gabriel_laddel http://blog.mecheye.net/2012/06/the-linux-graphics-stack/
07:21 assbot The Linux Graphics Stack | Clean Rinse ... ( http://bit.ly/147r0o5 )
~ 24 minutes ~
07:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48400 @ 0.00068133 = 32.9764 BTC [+] {4}
07:58 HeySteve hi there, BingoBoingo
07:58 HeySteve how are things?
07:58 BingoBoingo Not too bad, what about with you?
07:58 HeySteve I'm well thanks
07:59 HeySteve Qntra seems to be taking off nicely
08:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15866 @ 0.00068884 = 10.9291 BTC [+]
08:02 BingoBoingo Yeah. It's a grind, but I'm liking it.
~ 26 minutes ~
08:28 HeySteve cool. was thinking of contributing when I get some more time
08:32 BingoBoingo HeySteve: You are entirely welcome to.
08:32 BingoBoingo !up Guest70704
08:41 HeySteve great, once I wrap up some projects I'd like to get into covering Bitcoin news again
08:42 BingoBoingo Sweet.
08:42 BingoBoingo Having more people contribute regulaly would be a huge help
08:45 BingoBoingo http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/protester-who-advocates-peace-charged-with-setting-fire-at-berkeley/article_ad4006c5-06ab-5b7e-8a7f-3fd2ed4dbbcb.html
08:45 assbot Protester who advocates peace charged with setting fire at Berkeley QT : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1AcjR1C )
08:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84134 @ 0.00069449 = 58.4302 BTC [+] {4}
08:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1944 @ 0.00070297 = 1.3666 BTC [+] {2}
~ 15 minutes ~
09:06 kakobrekla !up b00lcrap1
09:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8823 @ 0.00069056 = 6.0928 BTC [-]
~ 43 minutes ~
09:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.0006777 = 4.6761 BTC [-]
~ 1 hours 42 minutes ~
11:37 * adlai reads http://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/feds/2014/files/2014104pap.pdf in more detail, after skimming it and seeing all the pretty charts
11:37 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bec7uu )
11:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00068154 = 19.8328 BTC [+] {2}
11:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71200 @ 0.00066857 = 47.6022 BTC [-] {3}
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
12:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00066926 = 13.6194 BTC [+]
~ 30 minutes ~
13:24 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3449 @ 0.001186 = 4.0905 BTC [+] {7}
13:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2889 @ 0.00119198 = 3.4436 BTC [+] {6}
13:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3000 @ 0.00119299 = 3.579 BTC [+] {2}
13:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 968 @ 0.001193 = 1.1548 BTC [+]
13:46 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1065 @ 0.00118236 = 1.2592 BTC [-] {7}
13:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27155 @ 0.00066756 = 18.1276 BTC [-] {2}
13:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9445 @ 0.00065947 = 6.2287 BTC [-] {2}
14:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39240 @ 0.00068794 = 26.9948 BTC [+] {2}
14:04 thestringpuller cazalla wru?
14:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.00064632 = 34.5781 BTC [-] {2}
14:20 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 37 @ 0.1251329 = 4.6299 BTC [-] {6}
14:21 oglafbot http://oglaf.com/hotbuttons/
14:21 assbot Hot Buttons ... ( http://bit.ly/1AcvkhG )
14:21 oglafbot http://oglaf.com/tsa-2014/
14:21 assbot TSA 2014 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Acvl57 )
14:29 thestringpuller is it sunday already?
14:31 ben_vulpes anything interesting in that, adlai?
14:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9857 @ 0.00067186 = 6.6225 BTC [+]
14:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36966 @ 0.00064992 = 24.0249 BTC [-]
~ 20 minutes ~
15:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22177 @ 0.00064992 = 14.4133 BTC [-]
~ 17 minutes ~
15:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30313 @ 0.00064652 = 19.598 BTC [-] {2}
15:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11787 @ 0.00063874 = 7.5288 BTC [-]
~ 36 minutes ~
16:01 BingoBoingo thestringpuller: Yeah already Sunday
~ 22 minutes ~
16:23 cazalla thestringpuller, what's up
~ 29 minutes ~
16:53 kakobrekla some light listening, (90% english) http://radiostudent.si/sites/default/files/posnetki/2014-12-15-zid-zid-3.0/cash-in-the-age-of-intelligent-machines_0.mp3
16:53 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1CORZmu )
16:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89100 @ 0.00063469 = 56.5509 BTC [-] {4}
17:06 Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before Feb 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1080/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.83238982 BTC. Current weight: 49,952.
17:08 ben_vulpes i'm listening to lady v talk her mother into buying things with a credit card online.
17:09 ben_vulpes mom-in-law totally gets it "how does it make any sense to give the magic numbers that grant access to my money to other people?"
17:09 ben_vulpes baby doll: "well you see you can call your cc provider up and they'll reverse the transaction for you!"
~ 15 minutes ~
17:25 adlai ben_vulpes: "We argue that the vigorous growth in bitcoin value in the past 18–24 months has been accompanied by almost unchanged daily variance of the exchange rate once the variance
17:25 adlai calculations account for the changing exchange rate level. this observation merits further analysis. For example, such stable exchange rate variance could in principle be the result of activities by parties interested in the stability and trustworthiness of the system"
17:27 adlai ie, there's not just a growth in userbase/demand, there's also a growth in financial actors profiting from arbitrage, market making, etc
17:27 adlai ie, they're onto me!
17:27 adlai shit
17:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 4800 @ 0.00117777 = 5.6533 BTC [-] {2}
17:29 adlai however - i'd argue that there's plenty room for more "smart" money to enter this business of bitcoin-stabilization, assuming that there's plenty more latent demand, just beginning to wake up
17:30 * adlai discussed this paper with the dad over the dinner. the dad suggested that demand could increase independently of increases in the userbase, which is correct. clever dad!
~ 35 minutes ~
18:05 decimation adlai: how does one arbitrage between exchanges when it takes days to settle between them?
18:06 adlai gradually.
18:07 adlai a more precise answer might be "statistically"
18:07 decimation I guess you don't need to 'physically' settle a transaction to close your position
18:08 decimation if you are in the us, don't you owe ordinary income tax on every gain you make?
18:08 adlai ianafa
18:09 adlai ianius
18:09 * adlai also doesn't
18:10 decimation heh well bully for you I guess
18:12 decimation adlai: have you used the 'netagio' exchange?
18:12 adlai !s netagio
18:12 assbot 7 results for 'netagio' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=netagio
18:12 decimation I've mentioned it a couple of times here. I'm interested because it's somehow owned/related to the goldmoney guy
18:14 adlai finally, an exchange that likes liquidity! https://www.netagio.com/faq#article-35870720
18:14 assbot What Is Bitcoin? | Where Can I Buy Bitcoin? | FAQs | Netagio ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZOiZx )
18:14 adlai no assbot, that tag is titled "What is a maker-taker model?"
18:15 decimation yeah I thought you might find that interesting
18:15 decimation unfortunately it's all in GBP instead of USD
18:15 decimation so one would have to do another transaction if one's fiat is USD
18:16 adlai "The more information you give us about yourself, the more you will be able to do, and the more you verify yourself with us, the lower your transaction limits will be." I'm liking it a little less now.
18:17 decimation yeah they are all about kyc/aml
18:17 decimation the way I see it, it's going to be pretty hard to avoid kyc/aml if you want to deal in fiat
18:18 decimation take the king's shekels/take the king's shackles
18:19 adlai wtf. are they lurking here? all I did was register an account, and I already get flagged as a "Potentially Dangerous Request"
18:19 decimation lol
18:19 decimation no idea. it would be amusing if they did
18:20 kakobrekla adlai the terrorist.
18:21 thestringpuller adlai: finally, an exchange that likes liquidity! << yet they don't post volume?
18:22 adlai it's also worryingly difficult to find daily/monthly volume... shouldn't this number be prominently displayed on any exchange's landing page?
18:22 adlai YES EXACTLY lol
18:23 decimation adlai: did you connect to it via tor?
18:23 adlai no
18:24 decimation ah they now offer bitcoin/eur bitcoin/usd books
18:24 adlai with a $20 spread
18:25 decimation a year ago they advertise direct exchange to gold
18:25 decimation but I think goldmoney shut down their 'user-to-user' gold exchange
18:25 decimation so they stopped that offering.
18:25 adlai be as paranoid as you like about KYC/AML, but at least offer dummy API access for developers
18:26 adlai that way when a non-terrorist comes along, they can use terrorist-provided software, and all will be right in the jungle
18:26 decimation ;;google site:netagio.com volume
18:26 gribble No matches found.
18:27 decimation surely one can connect to the order book api and determine the number of bids/asks
18:33 decimation adlai: are there any introductory texts for creating trading algorithms?
18:35 adlai not that i'm aware of; although people have been running trading algorithms in their head for hundreds of years, so really any text on trading is a text on trading algorithms.
18:35 decimation yeah good point
18:36 decimation I suppose it all boils down to arbitrage, either in time or space
18:37 adlai pretty much: http://www.meltingasphalt.com/wealth-the-toxic-byproduct/
18:37 assbot Wealth: The Toxic Byproduct | Melting Asphalt ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZRrbx )
18:40 adlai this article is more thought-provoking than most drugs out there
18:42 adlai the relevant parts are II-IV, maybe V and VI too; tl;dr: market making is time-shifted arbitrage & money is fungible gratitude
18:45 decimation eh, I'm not sure I buy the moral implications of trade thing
18:46 decimation If there anything immoral happening w.r.t. money, it's the free printing of it to benefit the few
18:46 decimation it's an easy scheme to thieve from common folks
18:46 adlai that article doesn't say much of anything about money printing
18:47 decimation right, but it says an awful lot about the morality of trading money for things
18:48 adlai uh: "Instead, the point is that earning money is, in general, something to celebrate, not feel guilty about."
18:48 decimation right, so what about gaining unearned money?
18:49 adlai my main takeaway from that article is that moral judgements have to be made in the context of the entire "game" where a trade took place, rather than in the context of the trade alone
18:50 adlai gaining unearned money by printing? this devalues the already-printed notes, so you have to ask who are the noteholders getting fucked by your press
18:50 decimation exactly
18:50 adlai this is probably quite the echo chamber for complaints about money printing :)
18:51 adlai i mean, it's right there in the name of the channel... TWICE
18:51 decimation well, that's a fair point.
18:51 decimation on the other hand, 99.999% of the world doesn't see it as a problem at all, and a good portion of them also see it as a government's duty
18:52 adlai 99% of this channel doesn't see my roommate's atrocious dishwashing habits, or lack thereof, as a problem - because they're not aware of them.
18:53 decimation adlai: imagine what would be required to start 'raising awareness' of the morality of printing money
18:53 decimation one must immediately become the enemy of every fiat-supported institution that exists
18:55 adlai fortunately, the scope of interactions with the typical modern fiat institution isn't limited to "friend or enemy"
18:56 adlai there's a palestinian MK who believes that israel should be a people's democracy, rather than a jewish democracy. is he running the risk of not getting reelected? yes. will he get executed by government order? probably not.
18:56 decimation true, the continued existence of bitcoin demonstrates that
18:57 adlai "fiat" also is older than "fiat currency"
18:57 adlai and will happily survive once fiat currency is long dead and forgotten, because might makes right, however sick and twisted that may be.
18:58 decimation which is why we live in the age of usd in the first place, the 'allies' in wwii still dominate the world to some degree
18:59 decimation although it seems that degree decreases every year
18:59 adlai bitcoin being completely fucking useless actually makes it an excellent currency, in this sense - the only thing you can do with it is give it to another "person", optionally in return for something else.
19:00 adlai so holding bitcoin isn't depriving anybody else of anything, except for bitcoin
19:01 adlai for great lulz, read up on the venus project. this is what some people counter at me when they hear my excitement about bitcoin
19:01 adlai "money is bad, we need a resource-based economy" actually, that would be terrible. resources need metadata, enter money.
19:01 adlai https://www.thevenusproject.com/en/faq#faqnoanchor <- you can't make this shit up
19:01 assbot FAQ - The Venus Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1HTIu3A )
19:02 decimation eh, I guess I don't get the immediate moral assignments of money
19:02 decimation money just is
19:02 adlai it's metadata!
19:03 kakobrekla the link i passed here earlier also touches this.
19:03 adlai or fungible gratitude
19:03 * adlai brb patenting that
19:03 decimation lol your link is lulzy
19:03 decimation forward soviet!
19:03 kakobrekla :D
19:05 adlai kakobrekla: the audio thingy?
19:05 decimation adlai: there's some degree of that, but money also acts as an asset. In moldbug's terms, it's the 'bubble that never pops'
19:05 kakobrekla aha
19:05 adlai i like to put it more bluntly, money is "the neverending ponzi game"
19:05 decimation yeah I like that better
19:06 adlai :D
19:06 decimation something must be money, and that something is worth more than 'it ought to be'
19:06 kakobrekla its not neverending prolly
19:06 decimation moldbug's theory is that this is derived from game theory, in the sense that every actor wants to pick the best savings medium, which is the thing that everyone else is planning to save in
19:07 kakobrekla most actors are stupid though.
19:07 adlai assuming that you're saving something in the hope of trading it for useful stuff eventually
19:07 adlai if you know what's useful, and you know how to keep it fresh, you could just save that.
19:07 decimation adlai: yes. that constraint rules out many savings media obviously
19:08 decimation moldbug's analogy if I recall is a fisherman saving fish
19:08 kakobrekla relevant
19:08 kakobrekla http://www.silverdoctors.com/one-year-in-hellsurviving-a-full-shtf-collapse-in-bosnia/
19:08 assbot One Year In Hell…Surviving a Full SHTF Collapse in Bosnia | SilverDoctors.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsITul )
19:08 decimation kakobrekla: I've read that before, not sure if it is legitimate
19:09 decimation although it does seem to be reasonable
19:09 adlai kakobrekla: what is this thing? (the audio)
19:09 kakobrekla decimation pretty much on spot.
19:10 kakobrekla adlai its an audio collage
19:10 * kakobrekla brb
19:10 adlai damnit he's gonna beat me to the patent office
19:10 * adlai runs faster
19:11 decimation his point about hygiene items is a good one. Having a large store of ethanol seems like a good idea - can be used as a disinfectant, can be drank, can be used to de-grease engines :)
19:11 * adlai imagines that the situation in gaza [city] is not too far off, modulus one large well-established gang (hamas)
19:12 decimation adlai: hamas seems to blur the lines between 'gang' and 'government'
19:12 adlai there's an anarchist joke in there somewhere but i'll leave it to the reader to fill in
19:13 adlai and yes, hamas is probably a better government than the governments of, say, haiti or somalia
19:14 adlai although "hamas" refers to both a government and a loosely-knit military conglomerate, just like "usg" or "nato"
19:14 ben_vulpes decimation: simple things are beautifully powerful.
19:15 ben_vulpes ethanol, oil, lisp...
19:15 adlai (rockets are never fired by _hamas_ itself, and in fact firings are often denounced, even by the military arm; yet somehow the splinter groups keep operating despite the tight grip hamas has on the strip...)
19:16 decimation yes, the 'tight grip'
19:17 adlai then again, take everything i say with a dab of humus. i'm actually a lot less updated on local events than most people here, because it's mostly just fucking depressing.
19:18 decimation I imagine most folks who live in/near israel have a pretty grim fatalism
19:18 adlai kakobrekla: 28:45 !!!!!!
19:19 kakobrekla aha
19:20 adlai middle east demographics are quite the shitshow. malthus's ghost is laughing his ass off by now.
19:21 decimation kakobrekla: if your bosnia link is true, it strikes me that the most important thing to have in a 'shtf' situation is alot of people on 'your side': family, friends, etc
19:21 decimation adlai: what I find amusing is all the 'turd world' workers that the arabs import to do their dirty work
19:22 adlai you mean in the emirates?
19:22 kakobrekla decimation bullets & family (to use the bullets)
19:23 adlai in the parts of the middle east that i feel qualified to complain about, the arabs aren't sitting on enough oil to import workers; although israel is making the most from massive refugee flows from darfur, eritrea, etc
19:23 adlai as in, every.single.eatery has an "eggplant" doing the dishes
19:24 adlai and however little they get paid, i'm pretty sure none of it is declared
19:24 decimation I thought israel is harsh on illegal immigrants
19:24 decimation adlai: I guess emirates, saudi arabia, etc
19:24 adlai israel the government, yes. but israel the restauranteur loves them.
19:24 decimation lol same in the us
19:24 adlai makes sense
19:25 decimation mexicans actually do work pretty hard, I don't mind them so much
19:25 adlai oh, dinner with the dad also yielded some lulzy news from the other side of finance: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11269739/UK-government-to-pay-back-all-World-War-One-debt.html
19:25 assbot UK government to 'pay back' all World War One debt - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsKfVW )
19:25 decimation in my opinion the main issue is the welfare that will be extended to their lazy 2nd/3rd generation kids
19:26 adlai eh, those kids are raised by hardworking parents. i'd be more worried about the laziness of kids raised by parents on welfare today.
19:26 decimation well, good point
19:27 decimation of course, the welfare state also requires a source of infinte fiat
19:28 decimation it's lulzy that anyone still owns that wwi debt
19:29 ben_vulpes i'd like to know who it is...
19:29 * adlai wonders how many decades/centuries it'll take for speciation to start between "Homo operandus" and "Homo ignavus"
19:29 Apocalyptic from the same blog: http://www.meltingasphalt.com/the-economics-of-social-status/ looks interesting
19:29 assbot The Economics of Social Status | Melting Asphalt ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsKCQe )
19:32 adlai Huxley's "reservations" are actually a fairly moral solution for a welfare-free technocracy: exile people who aren't contributing to the society, but don't shit in their reservoirs either.
19:36 adlai http://www.directessays.com/viewpaper/19020.html
19:36 assbot Essay on Reservation in Brave New World ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsLc0g )
19:36 ben_vulpes i've always envisioned NYC style "projects", but with minimal food/water/electricity/internet piped in to keep the denizens complacent.
19:36 adlai hm this is actually a terrible essay, nvm.
19:36 adlai so, like a shit zoo?
19:37 ben_vulpes zoo implies people want to go there.
19:38 adlai well, zoogoers don't usually want to live in the cages...
19:38 adlai something between safari/zoo/reservation
19:38 ben_vulpes more like a roach motel.
19:39 decimation something like 'minimal welfare' is a bare hut with beans to eat
19:39 decimation but at the same time, don't tie the hands of folks who can 'make it out' of the reservation
19:39 decimation send them to australia or something
19:41 adlai fwiw, assuming that the fiat parasite sticks around in some form or other, i'd rather have it operate a single UBI program than dozens of badly-coordinated welfare axes
19:41 decimation yeah that's an obvious improvement
19:41 decimation probably won't change unless something forces the government's hand
19:42 adlai like what?
19:44 decimation well, in the case of the us, a sudden collapse in usd buying power
19:44 decimation which will only happen if overseas actors decide to sell usd simultaneously
19:47 adlai would that force towards more effective welfare programs, or just more of the same shit?
19:49 decimation eh, it would cause a collapse of some kind, which would change some stuff, some of which might be these programs
19:49 decimation of course, the urge to 'print their way out' might grow even larger
19:49 decimation https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141224/06321429517/sony-hack-reveals-that-mpaas-big-80-million-settlement-with-hotfile-was-lie.shtml << lolz "TorrentFreak has been combing through the emails and found that the Hotfile settlement was really just for $4 million, and the $80 million was just a bogus number agreed to for the sake of a press release that the MPAA could use to intimidate others."
19:49 assbot Sony Hack Reveals That MPAA's Big '$80 Million' Settlement With Hotfile Was A Lie | Techdirt ... ( http://bit.ly/13DwyWa )
19:52 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-11-2014#907209
19:52 assbot Logged on 02-11-2014 21:48:39; asciilifeform: claim is not a fact << when talking about a scam, the claim is the fact (that is, the fact of the scam being set up as such or other)
~ 22 minutes ~
20:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00063102 = 15.2076 BTC [-] {2}
~ 51 minutes ~
21:06 adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-12-2014#958557 >> https://github.com/adlai/scalpl/graphs/punch-card lol
21:06 assbot Logged on 22-12-2014 15:17:18; mircea_popescu: all you weirdos fucking with your sleep i swear...
21:06 assbot Punch card · adlai/scalpl · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1tsHbHS )
21:12 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00118 = 1.18 BTC [-]
21:18 kakobrekla that punch card isnt very useful
21:32 adlai it's probably some gnarly shit in fortran
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
22:35 danielpbarron !up Overand
22:39 xanthyos hi Overand
22:43 Overand 'allo. Registered my nick with my key. Woo
22:43 danielpbarron ;;ident Overand
22:43 gribble Nick 'Overand', with hostmask 'Overand!~overand@unaffiliated/overand', is identified as user 'Overand', with GPG key id 80053296F8159175, key fingerprint ADB3CD2C1AA14FA29B53677980053296F8159175, and bitcoin address None
22:44 danielpbarron ;;rate Overand 2 known since 2003
22:44 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user Overand has been recorded.
22:45 danielpbarron congratulations on becoming someone who matters!
22:46 Overand Heh. If this is what you consider the threshold I must to clear to "matter," and I didn't "matter" before, then my worldview continues to be wildly different from yours.
22:46 xanthyos ;;rate Overand 2 known since hebrew school temple beth shalom as far back as 9600 baud modems were in vogue
22:46 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user Overand has been recorded.
22:48 kakobrekla hi, so who are you Overand ?
22:49 Overand I'm someone who knews (or knew) xanthyos and danielpbarron in meatspace.
22:49 danielpbarron i met xanthyos through Overand; he's sorta hackerish or something
22:49 Overand ...knews? Knews?
22:49 xanthyos keows
22:49 * Overand laughs.
22:50 Overand Anyway, yeah. I'm a tech nerd, abstract musician, primitive skills student, general queerdo.
22:50 danielpbarron he already had a gpg key
22:50 Overand danielpbarron loves it.
22:50 Overand Yeah, I wonder if there's a timestamp on when it wa submitted to the keyserver
22:51 Overand well, 2009 anyway
22:51 Overand That's funny, I would have guessed earlier than that, but I suspect the keyserver doesn't lie.
22:51 kakobrekla primitive skills student?
22:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45000 @ 0.00065918 = 29.6631 BTC [+] {2}
22:52 Overand kakobrekla: Yeah. You know, fire with sticks, shelter in the woods, that sort of thing.
22:52 kakobrekla uhh
22:52 kakobrekla there is a school for that?
22:52 Overand The stuff I'd have known by the time I was 4 or 5 years old if I'd been born right here ~600 years ago
22:53 Overand There are a number of schools for that, but I meant it in the general sense.
22:53 xanthyos oh Overand you'll fit in here just fine
22:53 Overand When I'm giving an overview, I like to couple that with the tech stuff.
22:54 Overand You know, the whole "running fiber optic cable between mud huts after [insert emergency/collapse/rapture/disease/singularity]" thing.
22:56 kakobrekla for that you need shortwave, not optics.
22:56 * Overand is US General licensed as well.
22:56 Overand Shortwave's fine, but it's subject to a ton of ionospheric stuff.
22:56 Overand It certainly not 'reliable,' and it's not a great way to get anything of any reasonable bandwidth anywhere
22:57 Overand I'd stick to VHF/UHF/etc if you're talking about medium-throw distance
22:57 xanthyos Overand: did you get your general before or after they dropped the 18 wpm morse code requirement
22:57 Overand after.
22:57 xanthyos noob.
22:57 Overand Yep.
22:57 * xanthyos is n1ttz
22:57 Overand And yet I'm pretty sure I've done more on the air than you have.
22:58 Overand That's a great callsign, though.
22:58 Overand Did it expire?
22:58 xanthyos no
22:58 xanthyos i paid the 8 dollars to not use it for another decade.
22:58 xanthyos now i'm getting spammed from arrl
22:59 Overand mail mail or e-mail mail?
22:59 Overand They're a nonprofit with decent people there, if you want them to stop, just drop them an e-mail.
22:59 Overand support@arrl.org
23:02 xanthyos i'd rather let them waste their money
23:06 danielpbarron !up Overand
23:07 xanthyos !up Overand
23:07 xanthyos <dpb> copy cat
23:09 xanthyos ^ and paste cat
~ 21 minutes ~
23:31 decimation Overand: shortwave is plenty reliable, depending on your expectations
23:33 Overand decimation: Certainly.
23:33 Overand It's just not a great candidate for replacing the entire internet
23:33 Overand nor for ~7 billion people to communicate with each other.
23:34 Overand decimation: Also, I'm a ham radio operator, I've had plenty of conversations via shortwave
23:34 Overand usually 20 meters and up, a little 40,
23:34 Overand i don't think i've worked 80 down
23:34 decimation I'm an extra too
23:34 Overand erm... maybe some SSB on 80, but that was same-continent
23:34 Overand oo, fancy
23:34 Overand I'm only general.
23:35 Overand Anyway, point being I'm not a total idiot when it comes to this.
23:35 Overand Though likely not nearly as experienced as you
23:36 decimation Overand: as for 'replacing the internet', I suppose it depends on what those 7 billion people have to say
23:37 decimation at any rate, it's been discussed as a possible means to distribute the bitcoin blockchain and/or transactions
23:37 Overand decimation: So I've heard.
23:37 Overand What's the current data rate like?
23:37 Overand (on average)
23:37 decimation I think it would be possible to fit the blockchain into a 2400 bps channel
23:38 decimation !up Overand
23:38 Overand really?
23:39 decimation there's only one block that clears every 10 minutes right?
23:40 decimation the block contains a list of transactions, up to the max block size, plus the hash, plus some other stuff
23:40 Overand per bitcoin.it wiki, transactions are about 500bytes, running at 7tps, so that';s ~3500 bytes/sec or (humorously) 28,000 bits per second
23:41 decimation yeah, it depends how many transactions per block
23:41 Overand DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) varies between 4.5khz and 100khz of spectrum
23:42 decimation I guess the max block size is 1 MB
23:42 decimation most shortwave broadcasters limit their DRM to 14 kHz
23:42 decimation but they could sustain the kind of bitrates required
23:43 Overand it depends on the spectrum you're willing to use
23:43 Overand satellites are a better candidate for this
23:43 Overand think about XM/sirius
23:43 Overand shortwave could work.
23:43 Overand but it's suboptimal. you ever tried to receive DRM reliably?
23:44 decimation yes, it works quite reliably
23:44 Overand meh
23:44 decimation but you need a bigass transmitter on one end
23:44 Overand maybe for you
23:44 Overand and yeah. i've never gotten a DRM broadcast reliably here in the US, but, who knows
23:44 Overand haven't tried since i improveed my antenna situation
23:44 Overand that was with like, 40 feet of antenna up a tree
23:44 decimation there used to be a transmitter in nova scotia that came in well
23:44 Overand (a lot more antenna than your coke machine is likely to have)
23:44 decimation there's one in brazil that is reliable too
23:45 decimation at any rate, I'm not sure that shortwave is really suited for blockchain broadcast unless one had a really big transmitter (and more importantly - government-allocated bandwidth)
23:45 decimation I think what shortwave would be better for would be a transaction network
23:46 decimation and secure off-internet comms
23:47 decimation I'm thinking more of a mesh network than a point-to-point
23:47 decimation with IP relay
23:48 Overand decimation: DRM's highest bitrate seems to be about 27 kilobits
23:48 Overand though per wikipedia, they can shoehorn 700 kilobits worth of bandwidth into a 100khz channel
23:48 decimation yeah and it would require many kilowatts to sustain a large coverage area. and since the ionosphere varies over the course of a day, one ideally would need multiple transmitters with multiple frequencies
23:49 decimation 100 khz channel ain't gonna happen on HF
23:49 decimation 16 kHz is probably the max that you will get allocated politically
23:50 Overand so standard AM is what, 20khz or so
23:50 decimation AM on shortwave is ~12 kHz
23:50 Overand so that 27 kilobit data rate is probably - yeah - in that 12khz am
23:50 Overand hm
23:50 Overand man, tempting to go ask on the FreeDV / Codec2 mailing list
23:50 decimation one can have arbitrary many kilobits in a kilohertz as constrained by SNR given in Shannon's law
23:51 Overand though they're mostly working with relatively tiny bandwidth digital modulation
23:51 Overand Sticking a digital voice channel into 900hz - 1.6khz or so
23:52 decimation yeah they use an ofdm scheme
23:52 Overand Anyway, the current blockchain with error coding and such could probably reasonably fit into a 20k wide channel
23:52 Overand if we just scale that up
23:52 Overand that's not nothing, but it's not insane
23:53 Overand but getting that across the *world* would t ake a lot of power
23:53 Overand and that's at the current blockchain rate
23:53 Overand Also, next question...
23:53 Overand What good is a one-way transfer?
23:53 Overand I mean it's *some* good
23:54 decimation it would allow off-internet syncing
23:55 kakobrekla http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2014/dec/20/the-20-photographs-of-the-week#img-18 < black mirror part dunno, was it?
23:55 assbot The 20 photographs of the week | Art and design | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzTmak )
23:58 kakobrekla anyway now i see my week wasnt all that bad.
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