Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2013-11-02 | 2013-11-04 → ↓
00:00 mod6 i agree on philosophy though. why build something that is dependant on something undereath? how does that get one somewhere?
00:00 asciilifeform mod6: see, i tell people, 'trinary logic, clockless Muller gates, direct execution of high-level language.'
00:00 asciilifeform and they say 'you're a nut. we wanna get stuff done Right Now.'
00:01 asciilifeform software sucks because hardware sucks. 'you can't pour a bullet from shit.'
00:02 mod6 haha
00:03 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55
00:03 ozbot Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it.
00:04 mod6 i mean, the idea of a 'successor of unix' is appleaing to me, eventhough I <3 *nix (in general compared to whatever, windows). it would be amazing to have something abstracted to the level where it can handle physical systems and be virtualized too and be next gen
00:04 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
00:05 mod6 lol asciilifeform
00:05 mod6 err assbot
00:05 asciilifeform mod6: once you understand how much of what you presently know will be irrelevant (actually, harmful) after a serious rethinking of computing, you'll shit yourself.
00:06 asciilifeform don't worry, not much risk of it actually happening in real life.
00:07 asciilifeform just try telling people: 'yes, you'll have to throw away your RAM. and every line of code anyone's ever written.'
00:07 mod6 isn't it exciting?
00:07 asciilifeform exciting, until you realize 1) it won't happen, and 2) it must
00:08 mod6 if it must, it will
00:08 asciilifeform qwerty's still here.
00:09 asciilifeform people will put up with astounding levels of dysfunction because 'they want to get things done.'
00:09 mod6 hahaha. yah but people are creatures of habit. but thats only because it's been allowed to persist. if people were only given type A new keyboard (dvorak) then that'd be used. kinda like only left hockey sticks in soivet union.
00:11 mod6 i never personally switched to dvorak because the friend that i have who did had the issue of trying to constantly switch everyone elses computer to dvorak if he wanted to use it.
00:11 mod6 muscle memory is a bitch
00:11 mod6 i guess this might not be relevant.
00:13 mod6 so what if we got to a point where we needed to throw everything existing away (now), how we would we proceed?
00:13 mod6 we'd simply only have a lesson in what not to do.
00:13 mod6 but we wouldn't have a map in what to do, only what not to do.
00:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00082163 = 1.6843 BTC [-]
00:21 mod6 asciilifeform: so we must go back to the form of the turing machine or DFA to re-invent the modern os? or do you think even that must be re-thought because of the possibility of quantum computers?
00:25 mod6 ( i like this thread, even if it leads no-where in particular. just curious, searching for ideas. )
00:26 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 103 @ 0.05263204 = 5.4211 BTC [+] {3}
00:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 0.05260001 = 0.526 BTC [-]
00:35 mod6 ahh i see your comment and reply in that article: I believe that efficiency in computer design is a false god. Give me an “inefficient” but responsive and “Seven-Laws Compliant” computer any day of the week in place of the monstrous PC, that race car which regards steering wheel input as mere advice and so eagerly speeds off cliffs and into embankments. << hahaha
00:41 mod6 i agree, there has to be a better way.
00:48 mod6 anyway, i guess i'll get back to it. thanks for the convo.
~ 18 minutes ~
01:06 KRS1 http://paste2.org/6tY0zHY9
01:06 KRS1 oops
01:07 KRS1 I meant http://cdn.meme.li/i/pekig.jpg
01:12 KRS1 lul
~ 28 minutes ~
01:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.8795995 BTC [+]
01:46 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 14 @ 0.0079 = 0.1106 BTC [-]
01:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 912 @ 0.00082163 = 0.7493 BTC [-]
~ 15 minutes ~
01:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.87963928 = 8.7964 BTC [+] {4}
~ 44 minutes ~
02:14 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 111 @ 0.007909 = 0.8779 BTC [+] {3}
02:25 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.15 = 0.45 BTC [-]
02:26 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.389898 BTC [+]
02:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.389899 BTC [+]
02:31 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 6 @ 0.0599 = 0.3594 BTC [+]
02:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00814571 = 0.8553 BTC [+] {2}
02:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.80173333 = 4.8104 BTC [-] {4}
02:52 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.00815 = 0.1304 BTC [+]
~ 42 minutes ~
03:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00081943 = 4.7117 BTC [-]
~ 43 minutes ~
04:19 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00765473 = 0.3062 BTC [-] {4}
04:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6037 @ 0.00081794 = 4.9379 BTC [-]
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
05:48 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 304 @ 0.00109498 = 0.3329 BTC [-]
05:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 500 @ 0.00109498 = 0.5475 BTC [-]
05:51 jurov ;;bc,stats
05:52 gribble Current Blocks: 267686 | Current Difficulty: 3.9092878763808584E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 268127 | Next Difficulty In: 441 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 5 hours, 43 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 511949177.601 | Estimated Percent Change: 30.95714
~ 36 minutes ~
06:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4033 @ 0.00081943 = 3.3048 BTC [+]
06:31 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.8 = 2.4 BTC [-]
06:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16424 @ 0.00081844 = 13.4421 BTC [-] {4}
06:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 108 @ 0.00765194 = 0.8264 BTC [-] {2}
06:45 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 136 @ 0.00762073 = 1.0364 BTC [-] {3}
06:53 truffles someone's internet is broken
~ 52 minutes ~
07:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11383 @ 0.00082169 = 9.3533 BTC [+]
07:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share
08:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 179 @ 0.00273072 = 0.4888 BTC [-] {2}
08:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [-]
08:12 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 30 @ 0.0078 = 0.234 BTC [+]
08:24 pankkake http://www.rootwyrm.com/2013/11/the-badbios-analysis-is-wrong/
08:27 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.77000005 BTC [-]
08:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.75933333 = 11.39 BTC [-] {4}
08:40 kakobrekla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-EIBY-OUwU
08:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.0076502 = 0.8033 BTC [-]
08:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
08:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 108 @ 0.00765009 = 0.8262 BTC [-] {4}
08:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
08:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 96 @ 0.0076501 = 0.7344 BTC [+]
08:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
~ 21 minutes ~
09:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00082101 = 1.642 BTC [-] {2}
~ 24 minutes ~
09:30 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 2000 @ 0.00109498 = 2.19 BTC [-]
09:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00081929 = 9.6676 BTC [-] {2}
09:35 Diablo-D3 Ukyo: hey, at some point can you delist DMC? the nov 1st deadline has passed
09:39 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 628 @ 0.00109 = 0.6845 BTC [-]
09:42 Ukyo what does the us user deadline have to do with DMC ?
09:45 Diablo-D3 Ukyo: I set it to the same date.
~ 50 minutes ~
10:36 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.00762 = 0.2819 BTC [-] {2}
10:39 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 179 @ 0.0072901 = 1.3049 BTC [-] {5}
10:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.002779 = 0.2779 BTC [+]
10:46 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 100 @ 0.00109498 = 0.1095 BTC [+]
~ 22 minutes ~
11:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.77 BTC [+]
11:12 nubbins` hi
11:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00081632 = 5.3877 BTC [-]
11:16 nubbins` ;;seen KRS1
11:16 gribble KRS1 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 hours, 3 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <KRS1> lul
11:17 nubbins` ;;later tell KRS1 professionally, i've coded in VB.NET, C#, java, objective-c, plus web-dev-related things like html/xml, js, and sql
11:17 gribble The operation succeeded.
11:17 nubbins` i actually have no idea how ;;later tell works, you know
11:17 nubbins` anyway, that's in response to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-11-2013#366712
11:18 nubbins` and as a further response, i'd sooner put my eyes out than work in IT again
11:23 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.77 BTC [+]
11:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.77000005 = 2.31 BTC [+]
11:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.00779982 = 0.2652 BTC [+] {2}
11:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+]
11:43 mod6 ;;ticker
11:43 gribble MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 217.10102, Best ask: 217.68451, Bid-ask spread: 0.58349, Last trade: 217.10102, 24 hour volume: 5123.54629150, 24 hour low: 211.25000, 24 hour high: 218.00000, 24 hour vwap: 215.26331
11:45 nubbins` yes now
11:45 nubbins` ;;ticker --market all
11:45 nubbins` hm
11:45 gribble MtGox BTCUSD last: 218.00001, vol: 5143.70604610 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 206.20, vol: 6099.18382697 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 203.112, vol: 6443.37397 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 215.0, vol: 2431.08005992 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 199.00, vol: 188.94107072 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 213.1181982, vol: 7764.44100000 | Volume-weighted last average: 210.280682296
11:47 nubbins` not too shabby
11:48 nubbins` AM1 made it all the way to 0.88 earlier, i guess people are really expecting a lot of suckers to buy those new box erupters or whatever they're called
11:51 Jere_Jones I'm not even sure those are new. Sounds suspiciously like 3 blades in a box to me.
11:51 nubbins` nod
11:52 nubbins` priced suspiciously like 3 blades in a box, too
11:52 nubbins` same bad idea with a different pretty bow on it
11:53 Jere_Jones Don't get me wrong, I want ASICMiner to succeed. But I don't think the box is news.
11:53 nubbins` i'm ambivalent about their success
11:53 nubbins` do you want the banks who offered sub-prime mortgages to succeed?
11:53 nubbins` take a moment to examine the parallels
11:54 Jere_Jones In both cases, I believe my answer would be yes. Because my financial well-being is related to both.
11:55 nubbins` heh
11:55 nubbins` your honesty is refreshing
11:55 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.71795 = 14.359 BTC [-] {8}
11:56 Jere_Jones I'm not *happy* about needing BoA to not fail. But I would be in a bad spot if it did.
11:56 nubbins` i don't think that many of the people bleating in the AM threads on btctalk have the same level of clarity
11:56 nubbins` in fact, if one were to suggest to them that they're attempting to enrich themselves to the direct detriment of others, they'd proably be very surprised
11:57 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.00729051 = 0.4593 BTC [-]
11:58 Jere_Jones Let's be clear, I don't want BoA to succeed *because* they are issuing mortgages to people who can't afford them. I want BoA to succeed *because* they have my money.
11:59 Jere_Jones And, as far as I can tell, there aren't any real good options when it comes to banks.
11:59 nubbins` there's always credit unions, i guess
12:00 nubbins` although i think the banking system in america is very different from here in canada.
12:00 nubbins` we've got what, five or six banks? and a bunch of credit unions
12:01 Jere_Jones We've got a ton of banks and they all suck.
12:02 Jere_Jones Of course, the vast majority of them are really just fronts for the big ones. Switching to one of them would be the equivalent of switching from Sprint to Ting.
12:02 Jere_Jones Different name. Same assholes.
12:02 nubbins` yeah
12:02 nubbins` and the oppressor grows larger still
12:03 nubbins` http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1prngs/look_what_came_in_the_mail_today/
12:03 ozbot Look what came in the mail today. : Bitcoin
12:03 nubbins` first comment, hahaha
12:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 230 @ 0.00727665 = 1.6736 BTC [-] {4}
12:07 b0n1 :)
12:07 truffles if only that bitcoin thing could be used as money
12:11 nubbins` yes, if only
12:11 truffles " a bitcoin condom machine.." that was a good one
12:14 nubbins` there was a guy selling pregnancy tests on the forum
12:14 nubbins` along with flush kits
12:15 truffles not that many women on the internet
12:15 truffles he is in for a bad time
12:16 truffles oh wait nerds can has gf too nm
12:19 truffles is nerd a negative word to nerds ?
12:20 truffles i personally dont consider myself one ldo
12:22 pankkake it's probably like nigga. nerds can say nerd
12:24 truffles well some ppl like showing off their knowledge like on "king of the nerds" tv show
12:24 truffles n word not on the same scale imo
12:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.0002445 = 0.3668 BTC [+]
12:38 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0002445 = 0.2445 BTC [+]
~ 18 minutes ~
12:56 truffles well im not smart enough for the nerd title otherwise i see no probs with it, but ofc some ppl are sensitive about this stuff
13:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 246 @ 0.00109498 = 0.2694 BTC [+]
13:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 360 @ 0.00109498 = 0.3942 BTC [+]
13:17 truffles must sleep
13:19 benkay nubbs how do you obtain food credits outside of IT these days?
13:20 nubbins` i run a print studio
13:20 kakobrekla did you do the snsa shirt?
13:21 nubbins` printed them, yes. didn't design the image
13:21 kakobrekla cool
13:21 nubbins` agreed :D
13:21 kakobrekla i heard im getting some!
13:22 benkay bought some cardanos, kakobrekla?
13:22 nubbins` ah! you must be one of the slovenia/slovakia packages i'm guessing?
13:22 kakobrekla benkay not yet
13:22 kakobrekla nubbins` yeah that one, somalia it was i reckon
13:22 nubbins` heh
13:22 benkay i'm still mulling over how to integrate cardanos into my existing key mgmt scheme
13:23 nubbins` i'm much more interested in flatstock than fabric these days
13:23 kakobrekla like papery stuff?
13:23 nubbins` yeah
13:23 nubbins` paper, wood, w/e
13:24 kakobrekla benkay yeah ill get one or two and then later figure out what to do with them
13:24 nubbins` received a large order of paper on friday, can't wait to start testing it out
13:24 nubbins` all 100% cotton. some of it is black :0
13:24 kakobrekla cotton paper?
13:24 nubbins` yep. acid-free, archival quality
13:24 nubbins` none of this dead-tree bullshit ;)
13:25 kakobrekla ok but you are not a treehugger or ?
13:25 nubbins` no more so than the average sensible human
13:25 nubbins` tree paper just isn't as nice
13:25 kakobrekla well cotton is a bitch too
13:26 nubbins` maybe so, but it makes fine paper
13:29 mod6 ;;ticker
13:30 gribble MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 220.00000, Best ask: 220.09774, Bid-ask spread: 0.09774, Last trade: 220.00000, 24 hour volume: 7213.48975184, 24 hour low: 211.70001, 24 hour high: 220.09774, 24 hour vwap: 216.59082
13:37 kakobrekla here, have a rainbow http://jezus.si:81/render?target=bitcoin.*.transactions&height=500&width=1100&lineMode=connected
13:37 kakobrekla stamp is laging, not only teh cans and strings but teh price too
13:48 mod6 nice chart. someone has a pretty good bid in @ 195 on bitstamp.
13:52 mod6 well, guess its $193.03:
13:53 mod6 $193.03 3619.12508000 $698,599.71
13:55 nubbins` oh my
13:57 nubbins` never gonna get filled, that's just there to give people confidence that the ass isn't gonna fall out of it
14:03 Pantoo I see ken was exaggerating about the SEC and mislead everyone who has been building off of his statement... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3430985#msg3430985
14:04 pankkake ken mislead people? how surprising
14:04 Pantoo hahaha
14:04 pankkake http://www.angelfoodcomic.com/wp-content/uploads/I-have-no-idea-what-I-am-doing.jpg ActimeMining in a nutshell
14:05 Pantoo i was looking to see if he had said anything else about the SEC and noticed he made that update earlier. wonder how long till others notice
~ 15 minutes ~
14:20 nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3467862#msg3467862
14:20 ozbot ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It
14:20 nubbins` lel
14:26 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.78899999 = 1.578 BTC [+]
14:27 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 8 @ 0.059 = 0.472 BTC [-]
14:30 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 3500 @ 0.00109498 = 3.8324 BTC [+] {2}
14:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00081266 = 8.0453 BTC [-]
~ 36 minutes ~
15:15 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 0.059 = 0.295 BTC [-]
15:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00081336 = 7.6863 BTC [+]
~ 22 minutes ~
15:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9074 @ 0.0008163 = 7.4071 BTC [+]
15:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1000 @ 0.00109498 = 1.095 BTC [+]
~ 16 minutes ~
16:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00081258 = 7.3132 BTC [-] {2}
16:17 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 130 @ 0.00728141 = 0.9466 BTC [-] {3}
16:17 jurov nubbins`: did you declare sufficiently high value for our watchful customs to intercept it and demand ransom?
16:18 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.0072744 = 0.4583 BTC [-]
16:18 nubbins` the postal clerk filled out all the customs forms for me. pretty sure they're all marked as "t-shirt", gift, no cash value
16:20 jurov good. cuz americans like, in their blessed innocece, to declare $$$$ value and then it's headache
16:20 jurov *innocence
16:21 nubbins` i sold some poor EU guy a rare casascius coin a while back. he insisted on insuring it for its full value, and was very sad when he had to pay hundreds of dollars before they released his package
16:21 mircea_popescu innocaecity
16:21 nubbins` innococracy
16:22 pankkake that's why I don't like to order stuff outside of the EU :/
16:22 mircea_popescu btw i answered your comments noobins :D
16:22 pankkake also stuff has a tendency to disappear at the border
16:32 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00759999 = 0.2356 BTC [+]
16:34 nubbins` mircea_popescu: just finished; we're *all* misrepresenting the situation. the artists, the art dealers, the museum-going public, and every single person who commented on that post, yourself included. this is why "what is art" is an interesting topic for discussion; everyone colors it with their own experience.
16:34 mircea_popescu no, you're all doing it except me.
16:34 mircea_popescu you know this because i can enact my point in your system, but you can't enact your point in mine.
16:35 mircea_popescu in all situations where a set of representations appears equivalent but one excludes all others, that's also the correct one, and the others are degenerate.
16:36 nubbins` i'm still trying to figure out if i should determine the nature of your point or the nature of your system first!
16:38 mircea_popescu lol good point.
16:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.775 BTC [-]
16:41 nubbins` anyway, certainly one of the more entertaining reads (article + comments) so far
16:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.77999998 = 3.9 BTC [+] {2}
16:42 mircea_popescu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=753nCv6tl2s
16:42 ozbot By special request, the Imperial March on Kazoo - YouTube
16:43 nubbins` *blink*
16:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.7931355 = 5.5519 BTC [+] {4}
16:44 nubbins` that's quite the outfit
16:46 mircea_popescu it's kinda what i think when i hear star wars.
16:46 mircea_popescu that guy.
16:47 nubbins` a reasonable enough representation
16:53 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5899 @ 0.00021142 = 1.2472 BTC [-] {9}
17:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 826 @ 0.00081437 = 0.6727 BTC [+]
17:10 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 17 @ 0.059 = 1.003 BTC [+]
17:12 jurov the correct one, and the others are degenerate *rolls eyes*
17:13 mircea_popescu jurov im super cereal.
17:14 nubbins` i'm curious to know what your description of my system would be
17:16 jurov "lurk moar"
17:17 mircea_popescu he was asking you neh ?
17:17 nubbins` nope, that was directed towards you
17:18 nubbins` you can't claim to know a man's mind and not expect him to ask you to elaborate
17:18 mircea_popescu ah. well i wouldn't know "your" system. what you've written so far is coherent with naive nominalism, ie the ideology of all youths. occam requires it be described as such.
17:20 mircea_popescu (naive nominalism is the view that convention enacts existence, and thus forumers are "ceo"s and their harebrained schemes "companies")
17:21 mircea_popescu that aside, there aren't really enough points given explicitly to make much of a call.
17:22 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00726548 = 0.4359 BTC [-] {3}
17:22 nubbins` and thus, random bozos are "artists"?
17:23 mircea_popescu if you call them that.
17:23 nubbins` if the random bozo creates something that i like, what else would i call him?
17:24 mircea_popescu but there's a difference between calling a dude a nigger for convenience, as the shortest word available,
17:24 mircea_popescu and calling a dude a nigger for racism.
17:27 nubbins` i dunno, man. maybe i'm applying too much of my interpretation of your "system" into your words, but it seems like you're flat-out stating that it's not art unless someone in a position of power or influence over the artist decrees it to be so
17:27 mircea_popescu no, i am flat out stating that.
17:27 nubbins` and i find such a stance so bizarre that i'm not even sure where to begin picking it apart
17:28 mircea_popescu i know.
17:29 nubbins` about five years ago, i moved into an apartment and found a large piece of wall panelling with a picture painted on the back side of it. it's currently gracing the wall of my living room.
17:29 nubbins` no name, no identifying marks whatsoever, no way for me to ever find out who made it or to contact them in any way
17:30 nubbins` to propose that i hold any position relative to its creator, above or below, is simply nonsense
17:30 nubbins` and yet, there it sits on my wall
17:30 nubbins` unequivocally and inarguably a work of art
17:31 mircea_popescu "unequivocally and inarguably a work of art" only in the republic of one constructed by your own living room, of which you are president.
17:31 nubbins` YES
17:31 nubbins` my fucking point exactly
17:31 mircea_popescu why do you expect solipsism to be considered by others ?
17:32 mircea_popescu your problem, not apt to be brought to the forum.
17:33 mircea_popescu for that matter, you may perhaps in time come to own a miniature of the eiffel tower, which you may emplace on your commode,
17:33 mircea_popescu or in your rectum.
17:33 mircea_popescu it'd be "the eiffel tower of my commode", but only inasmuch as you are concerned.
17:33 nubbins` sure
17:33 mircea_popescu it's not germane to call it "the eiffel tower" in conversation.
17:34 nubbins` well, you're the one bringing definite articles into play
17:34 nubbins` it's not THE art on my walls, it's A piece of art
17:34 mircea_popescu yes, because i am the one discussing art,
17:34 mircea_popescu not whatever irreelvant stuff you're personally dreaming up all for yourself.
17:34 mircea_popescu the eiffel tower on yoru commode is not a piece of eiffel towers.
17:35 nubbins` everything is irrelevant but the opinion of the observer
17:35 mircea_popescu it has literally nothing to do with the eiffel tower.
17:35 mircea_popescu no.
17:35 nubbins` yes.
17:35 nubbins` universally, no
17:35 mircea_popescu well so there you have it.
17:35 nubbins` but as a matter of determining whether it's art, yes
17:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3216 @ 0.00081476 = 2.6203 BTC [+]
17:35 mircea_popescu there are qualifications needed to be an observer. you don't become an observer of the battle of thermopylae just by stating yourself as an observer
17:35 nubbins` oh, you most certainly do
17:36 nubbins` an observer needs no qualifications beyond the ability to observe
17:36 nubbins` the validity of their observations can certainly be debated
17:36 mircea_popescu this may be the best stating of the naive nominalism discussed above.
17:36 nubbins` just as the validity of what my opinion of art is can be debated
17:36 mircea_popescu you presume youy have the faculty to observe.
17:36 mircea_popescu this presumption is wholly unsubstantiated.
17:37 nubbins` art doesn't exist in a vacuum
17:37 dexX7 observer? http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/mircea-popescu-gpl-3.jpg
17:37 nubbins` you touched on this when you said it was inert
17:38 nubbins` but that's just another way of questioning whether an event happens if there is no observer
17:38 nubbins` trees falling, noises being made, etc
17:38 nubbins` and that's fair in the sense that art is some sort of schrodinger's cat type thing
17:39 nubbins` where it's neither art nor not-art until someone looks at it
17:39 mircea_popescu nah, see, the equivocation at work here is that the requirements for being an observer in the foresrt with a falling tree are very low
17:39 nubbins` but the difference here is that all can agree on whether or not a cat is dead
17:39 nubbins` because that's quantifiable
17:39 mircea_popescu one can't turn arround and expect all situations have equally low bars
17:39 nubbins` none can agree on whether or not X is art
17:39 nubbins` because it's simply not quantifiable
17:39 mircea_popescu dexX7 jus' me an' my hat.
17:40 nubbins` how many arts is Starry Night? how many arts is Fountain?
17:40 dexX7 https://www.google.com/search?q=fringe+observer but i'm sure you know ;)
17:40 mircea_popescu dexX7 whassat ?
17:41 mircea_popescu nubbins` i dunno what cats have to do with this. is it an internet thing ?
17:41 dexX7 fringe is a us tv series
17:42 nubbins` http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat
17:42 nubbins` due to quantum physics gibberish, the cat is neither dead nor alive until observed
17:43 nubbins` the natural extrapolation of your argument is that you can walk up to a woman weeping at the beauty of a painting, or of a spoken word, and politely inform her that what she has observed is, in fact, not art
17:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.15 = 0.9 BTC [-]
17:43 nubbins` but the very fact that she weeps implies that she is having a strong emotional response to it
17:44 nubbins` which in turn implies that she
17:44 nubbins` oh fuck i smell smoke hold on
17:47 mircea_popescu nubbins` you could slap her, or kidnap her to the same strong emotional response
17:47 mircea_popescu "what literature pays best ?" "ransom notes"
17:48 mircea_popescu more's the point : your example is counterfactual. i would never talk to some anodyne serf woman,
17:48 nubbins` and there are those who would argue that such a kidnapping is "performance art"
17:48 mircea_popescu you might as well propose the cancer walk in the front door one day and begin jacking off.
17:49 nubbins` i disagree, but my disagreement merely illustrates my point
17:49 mircea_popescu "jacking off" ?! it has no penis.
17:50 nubbins` i'm merely offering the simplest explanation for the fact that there are so many things which some people call art and other people don't
17:50 mircea_popescu incidentally, the miscasting as art as "that which yields emotional response" is roughly the reason trolling has become such a big deal culturally.
17:50 mircea_popescu nubbins` yes, but your explanation requires people be equal and interchangeable, which is beyond naive.
17:51 mircea_popescu you might as well offer an explanation of art for spherical chickens that live in vacuums.
17:51 nubbins` your explanation requires that some higher power declares X to be art and Y to be not-art
17:51 nubbins` which is pretty lelly
17:52 nubbins` suppose person X says "this sculpture i've commissioned is art" and person Y says "nay, you are my subject, and i declare it to be not-art"
17:53 nubbins` well, obviously person Z (X and Y's superior) should be the REAL person to ask, right?
17:53 nubbins` and so on and so on
17:53 nubbins` and you arrive at the conclusion that art is declared by edict from god
17:54 nubbins` or, y'know, occam's razor. it's art if i think it's art.
17:54 nubbins` the obvious implication is that the words "to me" are inserted between "art" and "if"
17:55 mircea_popescu except no one cares about any "to me" sentence. they're voiceless.
17:55 nubbins` because there's no other way to quantify it, and if you can't quantify things, you certainly can't classify them
17:56 nubbins` sure, but what does that change?
17:56 mircea_popescu looky, this trick where you go "mpex is too hard, i don;'t understand it ; therefore we must all glbse because there's no other way to do it" isn't logically sound.
17:56 mircea_popescu it is the avatar of youth, but so are many other illogical topoi
17:56 nubbins` someone says a piss pot "is art to me". i don't care, because whether it's art to them has no bearing on whether it's art to me
17:56 mircea_popescu the "to me" approach is unsound. this disqualifies it, perpetually and definitively.
17:57 mircea_popescu the remainder is the "to whom ?" approach, which reduces to social hierarchy.
17:57 mircea_popescu no problem here.
17:57 nubbins` art acts on people. without "to me", it does not exist
17:57 mircea_popescu you presume all action is with the voluntary subjection fo the subject
17:57 mircea_popescu this may be true, but the subjection needn't be conscious.
17:58 nubbins` agreed
17:58 mircea_popescu you don't discuss surgery in terms of the subjective impressions of patients. a similar discussion of any other craft is similarly out of place.
17:58 mircea_popescu obviously the surgeons are surgeons by decree rather than because "people" feel surgeonized by them
17:58 nubbins` surgery definitely falls into the realm of the quantifiable.
17:58 mircea_popescu only in the minds of people who have no idea what it is.
17:59 mircea_popescu in point of fact it's about as vague as art.
17:59 mircea_popescu which is why malpraxis is such a mess.
17:59 nubbins` "you're cured if i say you're cured"
17:59 mircea_popescu exactly.
17:59 nubbins` "it's art if i tell you it's art"
17:59 mircea_popescu if and only if, when and only when.
18:00 nubbins` "i'm cured if my condition is gone"
18:00 mircea_popescu does the oncology patient go "all is well doc, i feel cured" ?
18:00 nubbins` "it's art if i say it's art"
18:00 mircea_popescu no, they go o please divine my fortunes, good master.
18:00 nubbins` "cured" has nothing to do with feeling
18:00 mircea_popescu it's quite a case of "you're cured if and when i say you're cured".
18:00 nubbins` art has much to do with it
18:00 mircea_popescu with feeling, perhaps. with conscious feeling rarely.
18:01 nubbins` hmm
18:01 mircea_popescu when i say "it's art because X feels Y" i may be right. when you say "it's art because I feel Y" you're certain to be wrong.
18:02 nubbins` mp says it's art because nubbins wept, vs nubbins says it's art because nubbins wept
18:02 mircea_popescu to be formal,
18:03 nubbins` same conclusion, different route
18:03 mircea_popescu mp said it's art, and it makes nubbins weep, vs nubbins thinks it;'s art because that's why he thinks he wept
18:03 nubbins` ...
18:03 mircea_popescu these are not the same. and for that matter the latter's logically unsound.
18:04 mircea_popescu (in nubbins' instance, not in the general form)
18:04 nubbins` you changed your example a bit there
18:04 mircea_popescu how ?
18:04 nubbins` you went from "because x feels y" to "and x feels y"
18:05 nubbins` mp said it's art because it makes nubbins weep, or mp said it's art and it makes nubbins weep?
18:05 mircea_popescu there is no because in the correct statement. in fact, we can judge how good a nubbins you are by how adequately you weep when art is presented
18:05 mircea_popescu NOT the other way around, judge art by how it "makes" you weep or not.
18:06 nubbins` well, obviously it's not the art but nubbins himself that is the cause of the weeping
18:06 mircea_popescu nope.
18:06 nubbins` but let's not get tangled up
18:06 mircea_popescu this naive "man at center of everything" goes well with the naive nominalism, but it's quite as nutty.
18:07 nubbins` let's examine "mp said it's art"
18:07 mircea_popescu ok.
18:07 nubbins` presumably mp has criteria?
18:07 mircea_popescu none of your business as they may be,.
18:07 mircea_popescu presumably he does.
18:07 nubbins` sure. nevertheless, we can presume that he does
18:07 mircea_popescu yea.
18:07 nubbins` we can also presume that nubbins also has criteria
18:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00081405 = 20.3105 BTC [-] {2}
18:07 mircea_popescu why ?
18:08 nubbins` as a facile counterpoint, why not?
18:08 mircea_popescu because it's not only facile, but wrong.
18:08 nubbins` surely there must be something that makes mp a good judge and nubbins a poor one?
18:08 mircea_popescu mp is one of the lords. he makes art be. of course we can presume anything.
18:08 nubbins` ahahaha
18:08 mircea_popescu nubbins is no such lord. we're going to have to explain why we presume.
18:08 nubbins` it's art by holy edict!
18:08 mircea_popescu that's the point of the article.
18:09 nubbins` you're a complicated man
↖
18:09 mircea_popescu <nubbins`> surely there must be something that makes mp a good judge and nubbins a poor one? << this implies that perhaps nubbins could move upwards in society, and contains implicit an equivalency of substance between the two. this isn't an accepted point between us.
18:09 mircea_popescu so if it's true, you'll have to prove it.
18:10 nubbins` ^ this implies that there's a ladder we're both on and you're above me on it
18:10 nubbins` so if it's true, you'll have to prove it.
18:10 mircea_popescu well not you and me personally
18:10 mircea_popescu but the icons we're discussing
18:10 nubbins` any two people
18:10 nubbins` sure
18:10 mircea_popescu i have to prove naught. i just make the art be art.
18:12 nubbins` so you pop into someone's house, point to a painting, and say "actually that's not art at all", and thus it was never art
18:12 mircea_popescu how would mp and nubbins socially interract ?
18:12 nubbins` i'm not sure we would
18:12 mircea_popescu i pop into someone's house by the intermediate agency of his wife which is now my slave
18:13 mircea_popescu and she throws out all their old shit cause now she knows better.
18:13 mircea_popescu "you know what ? my old junk wasn't art at all"
18:13 nubbins` that could happen without any outside influence
18:13 nubbins` and indeed it does, all the fucking time
18:14 nubbins` in fact, it even happens in the other direction!
18:14 nubbins` "hey, y'know, this album is actually pretty good"
18:14 nubbins` "this drawing has really grown on me"
18:14 mircea_popescu but this has little to do. you were discussing a particular application of the theory, with what i took as a view to reduce it to absurd.
18:14 nubbins` everything is absurd.
18:14 mircea_popescu i've shown the approach not to really work, we can move on
18:15 nubbins` of course, absurdity is a spectrum
18:15 mircea_popescu lol.
18:15 nubbins` the entire sphere of art rests squarely on the more
18:15 mircea_popescu the curse of this particular equalitarian-nominalism ogre is that it can't really make stateemnts.
18:16 nubbins` "absurd" end of that spectrum
18:16 nubbins` well, obviously, if you take my view, all art is a bit of a beat-off
18:16 nubbins` an absurd, senseless beat-off
18:18 nubbins` if one chooses to make himself an authority in such an arena, well, so be it
18:18 pankkake https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322809.msg3474594#msg3474594 john k's not dead
18:18 ozbot Where's John K?
18:18 nubbins` but he deceives himself if he thinks he can avoid becoming part of the beat-off
18:19 nubbins` after all, what's a bigger beat-off than "i'm the guy who sez what's art and what's not"?
18:19 nubbins` it's enough to make your sides ache.
18:20 mircea_popescu you know that seinfeld episode when george is pitching to the network nubbins ?
18:21 nubbins` vague recollection, specifics are lost in the haze
18:21 mircea_popescu "so what's this idea ?" "it's nothing" "Then why am I watching it ?" "because it's on tv" "not yet."
18:21 mircea_popescu that's it right there. i'm the guy who sez.
18:21 nubbins` not the best analogy
18:22 nubbins` tv has gatekeepers
18:22 nubbins` you wanna air a tv show, you need the permission of your master
18:22 nubbins` you wanna paint something or write a song, you're limited only by your own level of ambition
18:22 mircea_popescu ah, and "art" is free,
18:22 mircea_popescu you just put it on etsy ?
18:23 nubbins` etsy has listing fees ;)
18:23 mircea_popescu but this sort of drawer novel, as it was known, doesn't exist in the sense of art.
18:23 mircea_popescu it exists in the sense of masturbation, or w/e the author does in his privacy.
18:23 nubbins` so it's art if it reaches an audience of a certain size
18:24 mircea_popescu think of an old painting being discovered in a stahs. what is the question first and foremost asked ? is it something as to the paionting itself or is it as to the pedigree of the owner ?
18:24 mircea_popescu nobody goes "i found a 500 year old kinda cool painting"
18:24 mircea_popescu it only matters once it becomes "an old da vinci has been discovered"
18:24 mircea_popescu audience has nothing to do with it. this is wholly a medieval-inspired problem of probatory.
18:24 nubbins` nah
18:25 nubbins` it matters to more people if it's an old davinci or what have you
18:25 mircea_popescu if the shipwreck survivor found is a noble or a peasant, not if he owns a lot of farms and what havd you
18:25 nubbins` but that doesn't preclude it mattering to anyone
18:25 mircea_popescu if you insist to hold the utopian view.
18:25 nubbins` oh, but i do!
18:26 nubbins` we're all floating in a void
18:27 mircea_popescu well the advantage of holding nonsense views (which utopianisms are by definiton) is that anything can be derived from them.
18:27 mircea_popescu any conclusion is available to the inconsistent set of premises.
18:27 nubbins` the magazines at the grocery store tell me that kim kardashian is very worthy of my attention, but that's simply false
18:27 nubbins` well, yes.
18:27 nubbins` what's more nonsense than debating whether or not something is art?
18:28 mircea_popescu there can be no such debate.
18:28 nubbins` or whether or not X or Y is a criteria for defining it?
18:28 mircea_popescu art is art. you disagree, you may be punished by your lord. end of story.
18:28 nubbins` or whether or not art exists?
18:28 nubbins` or whether person X or person Y is an authority on the subject?
18:29 nubbins` unadulterated nonsense, all of it
18:29 mircea_popescu so if you don't really wish to discuss art, why are you ?
18:29 nubbins` regardless of a self-appointed lord's opinion
18:29 nubbins` if i didn't wish to discuss it, i wouldn't. this is great.
18:29 nubbins` you assume that people don't wish to discuss nonsense
18:30 nubbins` the length of this exchange implies otherwise
18:30 mircea_popescu lol no, you can't "Discuss" nonsense. to discuss a topic you have to renounce nonsense.
18:30 mircea_popescu if you wish to wallow in nonsense you're stuck doing it by yourself
18:30 mircea_popescu whether you get some others to do the same in your general proximity is irrelevant, everyone's still doing it by himself.
18:30 mircea_popescu bukkake like
18:30 nubbins` nonsense. you've been talking nonsense with me for like two hours.
18:31 mircea_popescu wait till i publish it :)
18:31 nubbins` wait til i draw it ;)
18:31 mircea_popescu cool, go for it!
18:31 mircea_popescu ima add it to the article
18:32 nubbins` great, gimme an hour
18:32 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.38989799 BTC [-]
18:35 mircea_popescu here you go.
18:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 9 @ 0.059 = 0.531 BTC [-]
18:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.007265 = 0.1162 BTC [-]
18:45 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 24 @ 0.00726401 = 0.1743 BTC [-]
18:50 pankkake is this art? http://i.imgur.com/lBx4YGG.png
↖
18:52 mircea_popescu gotta ask putin.
18:54 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 44 @ 0.00725763 = 0.3193 BTC [-] {2}
19:00 nubbins` http://i.imgur.com/UXMRkTT.png
19:00 nubbins` that's the best representation of our conversation that i could come up with
19:01 mircea_popescu just in time!
19:02 nubbins` phew!
19:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.15 = 0.3 BTC [-]
19:04 nubbins` signed, numbered prints available; bare walls are for boors ;)
19:04 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/you-want-to-see-reactionary-ill-show-you-reactionary/
19:04 ozbot You want to see reactionary ? I’ll show you reactionary. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
19:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 116 @ 0.00277899 = 0.3224 BTC [-]
19:06 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.79699306 = 7.9699 BTC [+] {3}
19:08 nubbins` made it a couple of paragraphs in before realizing that i already knew how the conversation would go
19:10 mircea_popescu jhahaha
19:10 mircea_popescu now you know how i feel.
19:11 nubbins` to a point, perhaps ;)
19:11 nubbins` now you know why i leave the drawing to others
19:11 mircea_popescu actually i think it wasn't bad.
19:12 mircea_popescu think about it : the first of your productions to be art,
19:12 mircea_popescu as enacted by trilema.
19:12 nubbins` unfortunately, not the first
19:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143 @ 0.00081717 = 0.1169 BTC [+]
19:13 nubbins` although certainly the first time it's been featured in someone else's blog
~ 16 minutes ~
19:30 pankkake wow pretty good drawing. i think I would have trouble with the teeth
19:30 pankkake you must be a real artist
19:31 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.79 BTC [-]
19:33 nubbins` not sure, you'd have to ask mp
19:34 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1000 @ 0.001091 = 1.091 BTC [-]
19:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1125 @ 0.001091 = 1.2274 BTC [-]
19:36 nubbins` anyway, it doesn't even really matter what the specifics look like. it's all about layout on the page
19:36 nubbins` how it reads
19:37 nubbins` that's the first thing people see
19:45 bitcoin349 If the rat is on their computer from when I sent it without hiding my ip then I uninstall it before wiretransfering funds through bitcoin on a virtual machine with different settings and hiding ip on 3 layers would I be traced or would their not be a log in the ISP of the info about the rat.
19:46 dub naturally
19:47 Kleeck_ How is your VM getting out to the internet, bitcoin349?
19:47 dub how dare you ask such personal questions
19:47 Kleeck_ "_(
19:48 dub rats are very private animals
19:48 dub respect that privacy
19:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00082024 = 3.6911 BTC [+]
19:49 Kleeck_ "Rats. I hate rats."
19:50 mircea_popescu ;;google 7 proxies
19:50 gribble Good Luck, I'm Behind 7 Proxies | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/good-luck-im-behind-7-proxies>; 7 Proxies - Encyclopedia Dramatica: <https://encyclopediadramatica.es/7_Proxies>; [ubuntu] 7 Proxies? - Ubuntu Forums: <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1679056>
19:50 mircea_popescu 3 is wholly insufficient.
20:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 900 @ 0.000243 = 0.2187 BTC [+]
20:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00082258 = 10.0766 BTC [+] {2}
~ 16 minutes ~
20:25 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.0073031 = 0.7303 BTC [+]
~ 17 minutes ~
20:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0075 = 0.15 BTC [+]
20:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.79733002 = 4.784 BTC [+] {4}
20:44 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4565 @ 0.00082655 = 3.7732 BTC [+]
20:47 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 520 @ 0.00024449 = 0.1271 BTC [+]
20:48 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2380 @ 0.0002445 = 0.5819 BTC [+]
20:56 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.0075499 = 0.234 BTC [+]
21:07 benkay this art discussion, yo
21:07 benkay ain't nothing to it, really
21:07 benkay the only opinions as what matter terribly are those as what emanate from the powerful
21:08 benkay which is baseline true
21:08 benkay it's like the f=ma of power dynamics
21:08 mircea_popescu i been tryin to tell him
21:09 benkay i did find the line about equivalency between aesthetic value and caloric value amusing
21:11 benkay and i only deploy capital against aesthetic things when it's going to have some sort of caloric return. eg: "babe, take this small pile of capital and deploy it making this space look nice. that way when clients come by they won't be horrified by my abysmal decoration and might actually be impressed by my aesthetic committee's performance"
21:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.1251 BTC [-]
21:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00277899 = 0.1112 BTC [-]
21:21 nubbins` so you pay someone to buy art to put in your home or office or w/e in order to not appear like the sort of person who would be perfectly content inside a grey cube
21:21 nubbins` in that context, yes, i suppose you'd only have the opinion of the "powerful" on which to rely
21:23 mircea_popescu burn the heretical unbeliever!
21:23 nubbins` some of us demand more from our surroundings!
21:24 mircea_popescu like better masking for the impact of power.
21:26 nubbins` "man, this benkay guy must employ someone who has really good taste in art"
21:27 benkay nubs, why u mad, brizzo?
21:27 nubbins` i thought we were all mad here
21:27 benkay there's some irony in there.
21:27 nubbins` best cure for anemia
21:29 benkay i exercise veto all the time, man. neural nets need feedback to work correctly.
21:30 benkay can't be arsed to go shopping though
21:30 benkay very definitely a delegable task.
21:31 benkay on an entirely different topic, i fly to argentina tomorrow. i'd be glad to act as a proxy in buenos aires for, you know, not *anyone*, but people in this channel with btc-related inquiries
21:36 nubbins` honestly, the concept of going shopping for art hadn't occurred to me until now
21:37 nubbins` you do it like you'd shop for pants or a new shower curtain or whatever?
21:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.81424999 = 16.285 BTC [+] {4}
21:47 benkay nubbins`: when a thing strikes me as being of high quality, i generally submit it to the aesthetics comittee for discussion and then instruct said aesthetes to purchase the thing
21:47 benkay unless they have cogent reasons for to not, obviously.
21:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 0.05410003 = 0.541 BTC [-]
21:49 benkay (high quality and, you know, appeals to my taste etc)
21:50 benkay but occasionally i find myself confronted by a wall insufficiently arted
21:50 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-11-2013#367374
21:50 ozbot #bitcoin-assets log
21:55 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.84799165 = 5.0879 BTC [+] {2}
21:56 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.848 = 4.24 BTC [+]
21:59 thestrin1puller nubbins` lol
21:59 thestrin1puller you cray cray
21:59 benkay cray like fox.
21:59 thestrin1puller cray like kendrick lamar yo yo
22:01 thestringpuller gold for BTC, perfect way to launder
22:02 nubbins` ^
22:05 thestringpuller gpg yo
22:05 nubbins` pdftk is a great program
22:06 thestringpuller dat svg
22:06 thestringpuller sexy sexy
22:09 benkay the bounce is back
~ 15 minutes ~
22:25 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 0.05989999 = 0.599 BTC [+]
22:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00024449 = 1.2225 BTC [-]
22:37 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 500 @ 0.00109498 = 0.5475 BTC [+]
22:39 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.859 BTC [+]
22:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.86 BTC [+]
22:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 112 @ 0.00277899 = 0.3112 BTC [-]
22:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 94 @ 0.0075985 = 0.7143 BTC [-]
22:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.87 BTC [+]
22:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.86 = 8.6 BTC [-]
22:51 benkay "commodity backed cryptocurrency"
22:51 benkay given that i can take my buttcorns down to ye local banker and turn them into commodities, this is idiocy on idiocy, right?
22:52 mircea_popescu so far.
22:53 benkay "so far"?
22:53 benkay meaning in the absence of a functional commodity-backed cc?
22:53 mircea_popescu what you've said so far
22:53 mircea_popescu mebbe there's more to it ?
22:54 benkay not by my parsing.
22:54 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.73100011 BTC [-]
22:54 benkay just thinking about the concept shows it riddled with the holes of weak minds
22:55 benkay how does one trust the issuer of such cc to back it fully and not descend into fractional reserve behavior?
22:55 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.0599 = 0.1198 BTC [+]
22:56 benkay i'm still trying to formulate an argument against people who hold that bitcoin is fiat currency
22:56 benkay 'cause "it's backed by math, idiot" isn't working
22:56 dub erryday I hear, 'no really what are you really cracking'
22:56 benkay i find myself trying to convince people of stuff again dammit :(
22:58 benkay dub: as in "are you on crack"?
22:58 mircea_popescu da fuck is "bitcoin is fiat currency" supposed to mean ?
22:59 benkay i think the implication is that it's a currency by consensus
22:59 mike_c it doesn't mean anything. What they mean when they say it is that it isn't backed by anything of value. you know, like gold.
22:59 benkay which is moronic given that all currencies are only such by consensus
23:00 opc0d3 ofmogmozgml0lgz
23:00 benkay enlighten me opc0d3
23:00 mike_c it's one of those arguments that when you hear it, your ears start to bleed a little.
23:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4796 @ 0.00084784 = 4.0662 BTC [+]
23:00 opc0d3 ICBIT.se 0% fees. mpex is going down the drain. ICBIT.se 2 years of rock solid trusted service. ICBIT.se futures much better then MPEX garbage with 40BTC signup fee
23:00 opc0d3 MPEX going to zero. how do i short MPEX. +1 ICBIT.se
23:00 opc0d3 that is all.
23:01 opc0d3 I doubled my BTC buying futures at ICBIT.se, the greatest and largest futures exchange of all time
23:01 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 49 @ 0.002779 = 0.1362 BTC [+]
23:01 nubbins` art by consensus
23:01 benkay opc0d3: what's the options volume on icbit?
23:01 opc0d3 4:1 leverage. best way to make money with exchange rate going up
23:01 mike_c went from 1 btc to 2? congrats!
23:02 benkay nubbins`: art because your lord said so. money by the same.
23:02 opc0d3 benkay: 170,000 volume on the futures contracts
23:03 nubbins` benkay: i'm not the one with an aesthetics subcommittee.
23:04 benkay it's not a subcommittee, it only reports to me.
23:04 mircea_popescu opc0d3 http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/
23:04 mircea_popescu start there.
23:05 nubbins` consider the statement suitably modified
23:06 nubbins` art by fiat!
23:06 mircea_popescu i suppose the entire "bitcoin is fiat" argument fails to comprehend that the only true scarcity is mathematical in nature.
23:06 mircea_popescu you can't get another number four.
23:06 nubbins` art by math: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-11-2013#367467
23:08 benkay i would put the a.c. outside for the night if that hit my radar unsolicited.
23:08 asciilifeform what's next? some joker will say that an AK round is 'fiat' currency?
23:08 benkay (^^ nubbins`)
23:08 asciilifeform 'barrel doesn't /have/ to be 7.62mm! fiat!'
23:08 nubbins` ;)
23:08 opc0d3 mircea_popescu: so you claim that they sell fake contracts down to force people into margin calls?? doubt it. i've been trading there for 4 months, in the black significantly, (im on this list https://icbit.se/WebTrade/top.aspx ) and have made multiple withdrawls.
23:08 opc0d3 Tycho is an ADMIN at bitcointalk and very trusted and is one of the owners.
23:08 benkay admin at bitcointalk
23:08 benkay well then give him all your isk
23:08 mike_c no, an ADMIN
23:09 nubbins` admin AT BITCOINTALK
23:09 opc0d3 mircea_popescu: sounds like you're just bitter that they had thin volume and someone traded against you
23:09 benkay amazing options
23:09 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
23:09 opc0d3 point is, he's trusted
23:09 mircea_popescu opc0d3 don't be an idiot. that article is older than your involvement in "finance".
23:09 opc0d3 laugh all you want. its like laughing at using John K for escrow.. you sound like idiots
23:09 pankkake > trusting a website with urls in .aspx
23:09 nubbins` trust by fiat
23:09 mircea_popescu sigh.
23:10 opc0d3 mircea_popescu: they have more volume now. you obviously bought futures in a thin market, and it moved against you.
23:10 mircea_popescu i love it when 4 month old muppets imagine their short lifespan compensates for 2year+ history.
23:10 mike_c is he kidding? or did john k show his face again?
23:10 nubbins` pankkake: there's nothing stopping that from being a renamed .jspx ;)
23:10 mircea_popescu opc0d3 mpex had months over 1mn btc nominal.
23:10 opc0d3 they're only getting bigger and bigger... so laugh all you want
23:10 mircea_popescu the difference is that mpex uses actual figures, rather than running this thinly veiled scam you do.
23:11 opc0d3 ICBIT.se is the most legitimate futures exchange right now, and the largest.... so laugh at their success
23:11 mircea_popescu they get bigger and bigger each year.
23:11 opc0d3 0% fees also
23:11 mircea_popescu then they magically don't have the dough to pay the winners, and go into a cone of darkness for a half year
23:11 mircea_popescu then they hire some five cent an hour muppets and are again alll sucess and bigger and bigger.
23:11 mircea_popescu and again and again.
23:12 mircea_popescu unregulated markets have various advantages, among which the existence of such idiocy.
23:12 opc0d3 mircea_popescu: it's in your interest to slander you competitors. so, forgive me if I call you on your FUD and BS
23:12 mircea_popescu dude.
23:12 benkay "don't have the dough to pay the winners"
23:12 benkay sauce?
23:12 mircea_popescu benkay the article quoted, and there's periodic such reports on bitcointalk
23:12 mircea_popescu last one was about 3 months or so. magically, his position was executed 10% under market.
23:14 Apocalyptic opc0d3, ICBIT.se ? never heard of that
23:14 mircea_popescu and to clarify, opc0d3 , you don't get to come in after a coupla years and call established fact "fud" and "bs".
23:14 mircea_popescu if nothing else, because there's little doubt and even less uncertainity involved.
23:15 opc0d3 Apocalyptic: its the largest Futures exchange, and they have 0% trading fees right now... its awesome
23:15 benkay ;;getrating opc0d3
23:15 gribble Use the gettrust command instead. See http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System#Relying_on_the_rating
23:15 benkay ;;gettrust opc0d3
23:15 gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user opc0d3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=opc0d3 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=opc0d3 | Rated since: never
23:15 benkay ah well there ya go
23:15 opc0d3 MPEX is upset that they've stolen market share so they tried to slander them
23:16 benkay come back with a wot identity opc0d3
23:16 opc0d3 too lazy
23:16 opc0d3 maybe later
23:16 benkay a telling response.
23:17 mircea_popescu benkay you're just angry because he's stealing your wot share.
23:17 Apocalyptic well the fact site is running on ASP makes me chuckle a bit
23:17 opc0d3 mircea_popescu: even though i think you're full of shit.... your picture on that horse is hilarious. +1
23:17 mircea_popescu opc0d3 you don't have what to think i'm full of shit with.
23:18 nubbins` hey, asp *dot net*!
23:18 pankkake oh a webchat user, the advance sign of retardation
23:18 nubbins` there's an "x" in those extensions!
23:18 opc0d3 Apocalyptic: yeah, funny that most of the worlds corporate software runs on .NET , i wonder why multi-billion dollar companies use .NET... what idiots@!!
23:18 pankkake lol
23:18 Apocalyptic do they ? i feel more secure running a linux server honestly
23:18 Apocalyptic but what do I know...
23:18 nubbins` they do.
23:19 opc0d3 only idiots would buy windows. That Mircosoft company must be worthless.... let me check
23:19 pankkake you know, multi billion dollar companies aren't a very good example of competence or efficiency
23:19 Apocalyptic ^^
23:19 opc0d3 $300B market cap!
23:19 benkay inertia, mostly.
23:19 benkay and what's the fb market cap? and their competence/business acumen?
23:19 opc0d3 pankkake: doesn't mean that running a .NET site is stupid or bad idea.
23:19 pankkake you'll figure it out when you get out of school
23:20 opc0d3 i run linux on all my servers. but can tell you from experience that big corps prefer MSFT
23:20 pankkake so?
23:20 Apocalyptic opc0d3, they "prefer" that's it
23:20 mircea_popescu this is progressing nicely.
23:20 Apocalyptic doesn't mean anything about the value of the product
23:21 opc0d3 you guys are lemmings to laugh at .NET
23:21 opc0d3 linux fanboys
23:21 mircea_popescu opc0d3 where have you learned to win friends and influence people ?
23:21 mircea_popescu it wasn't steve ballmer was it.
23:21 nubbins` see, the thing is: coca-cola can afford to pay for gold-tier support contracts, so they can use .NET and if it breaks (which it doesn't), they have a big red telephone they can pick up to get it fixed
23:21 opc0d3 i personally don't use any MSFT products, but would never be so idiotic to laugh at developers that do
23:21 nubbins` some random btc-related website likely doesn't have any sort of gold-tier anything
23:22 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 99 @ 0.0075988 = 0.7523 BTC [+]
23:22 nubbins` and so if something breaks (it will), they're fucked until they figure out how to fix it
23:22 opc0d3 +1 nubbins
23:22 nubbins` THAT SAID
23:22 mircea_popescu nubbins` except a fictitious exchange with no volume could be just as well run off dreamweaver.
23:22 opc0d3 nah. .NET deployments are usually much more stable then linux ones
23:22 nubbins` the support community around .NET is just as massive as the one around any other web dev technology
23:23 nubbins` mircea_popescu: notepad, even
23:23 mircea_popescu was.
23:23 Apocalyptic opc0d3, out of curiosity when was this trading plateform launched ?
23:23 mircea_popescu it was, in 2001. maybe 2005.
23:23 mircea_popescu it's nowhere near today.
23:23 opc0d3 what a load of BS>... ICBIT is not 'fictitious' nor does it have no volume.... so much misinformation and lies in here
23:23 opc0d3 you're just pissed you have competition -- successful competition
23:23 nubbins` ah, i haven't worked with .NET since around 2005-07
23:23 dub tycho is that guy that forgot how to run a pool yeah?
23:23 benkay opc0d3 - it's an echo chamber in here. don't get butthurt.
23:23 mircea_popescu opc0d3 dude, every mayfly in the book has said the exact same thing about me.
23:23 mircea_popescu read moar.
23:23 nubbins` left it behind when WCF started getting pushed
23:24 mircea_popescu nubbins` from what i hear you weren't alone
23:25 opc0d3 benkay: MP talks, and pankkake echo's , seems like
23:25 nubbins` the years of sharepoint development sucked my soul out, but being forced to move to WCF was the straw that broke me
23:25 opc0d3 a cute little parrot on his shoulder
23:25 pankkake what you don't understand is that there is only one person here
23:25 nubbins` ^
23:25 mircea_popescu opc0d3 you know you could save yourself a lot of embarassment by reviewing the logs for a few days before blindly jumping in.
23:25 nubbins` everyone else is a robot
23:26 mircea_popescu an approach which actually would make your life better in every aspect.
23:26 mike_c then you would know how to identify art.
23:26 benkay what ams art?
23:26 benkay r options art?
23:26 pankkake please not again :(
23:26 mircea_popescu mike_c by the way, you do have a point.
23:26 benkay i am making put arts
23:26 nubbins` it's art if i publish it
23:26 nubbins` should we get eskimo bob in here?
23:26 mircea_popescu while the opex system works great in every aspect as it is, the underwriter has no actual way to verify when they were executed in fact.
23:27 mircea_popescu so for all they know i could be making shit up.
23:27 mike_c yes :)
23:27 asciilifeform opc0d3: there are no people here. just a script, running on a PDP-8 drywalled into a closet, door painted over, at NSA campus.
23:27 mircea_popescu it somehow never occured to me, this.
23:27 mircea_popescu i'm lucky i'm not the only person reading these logs, it turns out. anyway, we're in the process of arguing about it.
23:27 mike_c ah, glad to hear.
23:27 benkay i think i have wondered at this myself
23:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.0076 = 0.304 BTC [+]
23:28 benkay ("me too! me too!")
23:29 mike_c i will share all the prize money with you benkay
23:30 benkay mircea_popescu: what do you think about ludwig von mises?
23:30 mircea_popescu as what, a main course meal ?
23:31 benkay you eat men
23:31 benkay dear dog save us all
23:31 mircea_popescu lmao.
23:31 nubbins` there is no dog
23:31 mircea_popescu no but seriously, much more of an economist than a philosopher, for instance.
23:31 nubbins` there is only natas!
23:32 benkay nah i have two weeks of reading and boozing and wenching coming up and i want something meaty
23:32 benkay something that'll stick to my brainbones
23:32 benkay i've lined up the modern money theory stuff on the premise that coming through that'll inoculate me against some brands of idiocy
23:33 mircea_popescu dubious proposition.
23:33 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00759988 = 0.76 BTC [-] {2}
23:33 nubbins` best stick to fiction
23:33 mircea_popescu seeing how its entire appeal is constructed by ceaseless repeating
23:33 benkay okay noted
23:33 mircea_popescu the sad thing of money is that nobody really wrote of it well.
23:34 mircea_popescu it's like this supermistress of most accomplished lures which goes wholly forgotten and ignored to the grave,
23:34 mircea_popescu because the sort of men she loved and loved her back were too busy doing to harp about it.
23:34 benkay (doing it)
23:35 mircea_popescu :p
23:35 benkay i suspect i alreaady understand mises work just from the subtitle of that one book
23:36 benkay how the middle way leads to socialism, bad policies following bad policies etc
23:36 mircea_popescu instead phthisic "women" captive in the bodies of little boys like all the various utopian facets of socialism get tons of idyllic literature fashioned
23:36 mircea_popescu by the sort of idle, pointless virgins that'd be interested in such crap.
23:37 benkay plato, then?
23:37 mircea_popescu btw pankkake you're doing a very small amount of parroting over here! i thought we had a deal!
23:37 pankkake I need to insult you more
23:37 pankkake or something
23:38 mircea_popescu the one problem with these kids is... they have no endurance.
23:38 pankkake I haven't read your latest blog stuff so I have nothing to disagree with
23:38 mircea_popescu ten minutes later they're gone. how's one supposed to have fun ;/
23:39 mircea_popescu hey opc0d3 come back! we weren't done!@
23:40 pankkake well he probably came earlier and will come back later. I wonder why he picked me, I wasn't even parroting this time
23:40 nubbins` once the conversation turned to books, i began silently lamenting my inability to finish reading one hundred years of solitude
23:40 pankkake though it felt that way other times
23:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.389 BTC [-]
23:40 pankkake I don't understand futures, options, and have no idea what icbit is :)
23:41 nubbins` voodoo gibberish, stay away
23:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.0076999 = 0.1925 BTC [+]
23:41 benkay black finance magic of the destroy economies kind
23:41 benkay only allowed on buttcoin black markets
23:42 mircea_popescu it's basically bitcoinica minus the relic hunting.
23:42 pankkake "savage capitalism" as your socialists say
23:42 mircea_popescu i don't recall now if it was written as a bitcoinica envy clone or not.
23:42 benkay hey mircea_popescu what were you implying the other day when you queried for the s.mg price and then made a comment about an in-game thing?
23:42 pankkake somehow when I see savage I think of a horse running free in the grass
23:43 pankkake so I'm ok with that
23:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 121 @ 0.00109498 = 0.1325 BTC [+] {2}
23:43 mircea_popescu benkay just idle comment that the volume was apparently up
23:43 mircea_popescu or down
23:43 mircea_popescu or i don't recall which
23:44 benkay i'd started imagining game/stock tie-ins
23:48 benkay hey mircea_popescu you have some education to perform: https://twitter.com/rabois/status/397075060499812352
23:49 mircea_popescu what's the rush.
23:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 193 @ 0.00769996 = 1.4861 BTC [+] {2}
23:49 mike_c joel spolsky
23:53 pankkake it's part of his strategy though
23:53 pankkake not posting stupid shit on twitter
23:53 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 0.05989999 = 0.2396 BTC [-]
23:53 mircea_popescu actually i think there's a rss to twitter feed.
23:54 dub speaking of education
23:54 dub http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bella/2013/01/your_chinese_takeout_box_has_b.php
23:54 dub groundbreaking stuff
23:55 mircea_popescu mike_c probably not count because engineers aren't "successfull ceos".
23:55 mircea_popescu or because july isn't current. or w/e.
23:56 benkay dub: i wanted it to have a badbios
23:59 nubbins` your chinese takeout box has had a badbios this whole time
23:59 dub tl;dr? seen it mentioned a few times today
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