#pest | 2023-09-27

01:13

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030972 << quite frankly, I have never had any interest in kicking around the corpse of all the "could've beens" tmsr was. when I initially joined #asciilifeform shortly after mp ended up sleeping the fishes, I had nil understanding of the history of tmsr, wotronics, et cetera

01:13

01:13	crtdaydreams	http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030972 << quite frankly, I have never had any interest in kicking around the corpse of all the "could've beens" tmsr was. when I initially joined #asciilifeform shortly after mp ended up sleeping the fishes, I had nil understanding of the history of tmsr, wotronics, et cetera
01:13	crtdaydreams	. my interest here from the very beginning has been lisp machines. not really
01:13	dulapbot	Logged on 2023-09-26 19:04:08 asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: before you showed up, there were folx who walked in shopping for 'replacement'. had to explain that wrong addr.
01:13	crtdaydreams	anything else. I see the utility of pest, but it's still rather futile on a heathen box. The adversary that can snoop all the packets also has the capacity to rootkit any box with ME or AMD equiv. It can only be "true free machine" if it's running on pre-2008 thinkpad + libreboot + custom linux + external rng, ofc with the
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01:14	crtdaydreams	requisite that the entire codebase has been read and vetted by multiple
01:14	crtdaydreams	individuals, and the software stack has the latest necessary security patches (manually applied)
01:15	crtdaydreams	it's a mammoth job to make that shit shine
01:22	crtdaydreams	aside, please forgive my poor linguistics, sometimes even after reading over what I just wrote before [ENTER] my brain still manages to fill in missing words/incorrect meanings with what I intend
01:23	crtdaydreams	e.g. s/sleeping the fishes/sleeping with the fishes/
01:35	crtdaydreams	what is any of this but a means to an end?
01:36	crtdaydreams	afaik the goal has always been sane computing, tmsr just happened to be a wave that you rode in an attempt to get funding
01:38	crtdaydreams	you'd be the only man on the planet that has the dies to spare to crack iron gc
01:42	crtdaydreams	if I understand correctly, the next most useful thing would be a software stack to decode a scan into verilog
01:42	crtdaydreams	or some other mutable representation of the hardware
01:47	crtdaydreams	http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030949 << that makes two of us
01:47	dulapbot	Logged on 2023-09-26 11:44:59 asciilifeform: has 0 interest in 'bottle shaking', impressing dimwits, gathering mindless followers 'under the flag', etc., firmly sees such activity as dead end
		~ 9 hours 18 minutes ~
11:06	asciilifeform	http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030472 << see, however, e.g.
11:06	bitbot	Logged on 2023-09-27 01:13:50 crtdaydreams[signpost]: anything else. I see the utility of pest, but it's still rather futile on a heathen box. The adversary that can snoop all the packets also has the capacity to rootkit any box with ME or AMD equiv. It can only be "true free machine" if it's running on pre-2008 thinkpad + libreboot + custom linux + external rng, ofc with the
11:06	dulapbot	(asciilifeform) 2021-09-23 asciilifeform: PeterL: if pestism catches on, will be very easy to bake a fpga prefilter, much cheaper (and lower mains current usage) than a beefy x86
11:09	asciilifeform	i.e. the logical conclusion of pest is effectively a network where the enemy can't send packets (incl. 'magick' packets) at all.
11:09	dulapbot	(asciilifeform) 2020-10-07 asciilifeform: PeterL: i won't presume to speak for trinque , but in asciilifeform's conception, the obv. Right Thing would be an item which rides atop ipv4 in the same sense that the latter once rode atop telco grid; and w/ cryptographic routing (i.e. yer address is a pubkey) and ciphration (i.e
11:11	asciilifeform	naturally this requires irons, to interface to heathen net, which actually implement pest (and ~only it~, not anyffin else, not linux, not bsd ip stack, not porous intel/broadcom/etc nic, etc.)
11:11	*	asciilifeform designed the protocol specifically to make this possible. but it requires, obv., hands, which atm in very short supply
11:16	asciilifeform	'p2p chat' is simply a demo application. actual design objective was, from the start, the above.
		~ 3 hours 51 minutes ~
15:07	signpost	"my interest here from the very beginning has been backyard orbital rocketry"
15:09	signpost	crtdaydreams: and no, you're incorrect that tmsr was a "just want to" fund sane computing. philosophy is upstream of any particular techne.
15:13	signpost	there is no sane anything built on insane priors, which include things well outside computing.
15:18	signpost	moreover the challenge anyone who did not participate in tmsr has in describing tmsr is they're coming from a zero-sum world of low trust. it is hard to conceptualize how rapidly cultural development can occur in a high-trust environment.
15:18	asciilifeform	^
15:21	mod6	ah, indeed
15:27	signpost	say the root of the world is not god, or government, but man - not as an alternative to be chosen - but a fact you can either know or ignore.
		~ 2 hours 26 minutes ~
17:54	crtdaydreams	http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031001 << If it was not clear, I was speaking directly to Stanislav regarding his own personal goals. Not that of tmsr.
17:54	dulapbot	Logged on 2023-09-27 15:07:33 signpost[asciilifeform]: crtdaydreams: and no, you're incorrect that tmsr was a "just want to" fund sane computing. philosophy is upstream of any particular techne.
17:58	signpost	yes, I understood what you said. the idea that things such as these are separable from philosophy or even lowly politics is not obvious.
		~ 1 hours 22 minutes ~
19:21	crtdaydreams	http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1030997 << all of this sits on the assumption that some kind of low-pass filter for shortwave uwb is even possible and won't get garbled by arbitrary noise