Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2023-02-17 | 2023-02-19 → ↓
02:14 crtdaydreams probably why, home pc nat not working
02:15 crtdaydreams likely on our end if ascii can talk with dulapbot
~ 9 hours 6 minutes ~
11:21 awt cgra et al.: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=UXKZ << patch to send ac only on launch/new key/address change for review
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11:28 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023375 << i'd check the antecedants to the missing packets, because if they are from my client, then they are lost FOREVER
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11:28 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-16 06:29:41 cgra[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: when looking, found out that there were ~800 unresolved chain hashes in my db. after some manual getdata flood at my peers i ended up with ~10k (doubling the total) more messages and unresolved chain hashes are now down to 12. these 12 won't budge
11:29 phf i'm pretty sure i've also sent at least one or two malformed packets, where the netchain or self-chain or both would've been some totally random sequence
11:31 phf it's either that, or having packet loss before i have a working getdata: packet A is lost, packet B goes out, counterparty getdata's A, but the client doesn't respond.
11:31 phf *before i had
11:33 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023376 << that's some strange dulapbot bug, because the messages in question are not in pest logs
11:33 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-16 06:32:31 dulapbot[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: (trilema) 2016-09-16 phf: in case anyone thinks that commercial lisp vendors are any good, i'm getting completely random failed to allocate errors on lispworks
11:33 phf or are they? they are not in bitdash history anyway
11:34 phf but for the rescind the point above, i figured out the random to allocate errors and it was my own doing
11:34 phf *but for the record
11:35 phf fok, i need my morning tea
11:40 asciilifeform phf: it's likely a bug in the dulapbot+blatta ensemble, i.e. the former fires when sees a replay just the same as if realtime msg.
11:40 asciilifeform evidently saw buncha replays earlier.
11:41 asciilifeform for that matter, this is all over the dulapbot #p log, elsewhere.
11:43 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023634 << was asciilifeform's 1st guess, but wonder what accounts for the others
11:43 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-18 11:28:46 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023375 << i'd check the antecedants to the missing packets, because if they are from my client, then they are lost FOREVER
11:43 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-16 15:56:48 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: cgra: some of these are likely phf's proto station with the hand-cranked packet shooter. but the rest -- mystery
11:44 phf a surprisingly small number (i got to that point in log)
11:45 asciilifeform ( for reference, subj )
11:45 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-16 15:55:04 cgra[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023381 << here, and somehow it's 13 now
11:48 phf for how small that number is, almost a shame that it's there at all :>
11:48 * asciilifeform also expected there'd be moar of'em
11:49 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023443 << afaik thunderbolt 4 machines https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201736 support up to 4 external monitors
11:49 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-17 11:45:51 asciilifeform[4]: phf ( or any other folx who operate crapple irons ) -- know whether crapple sells a box that can drive 3 'displayport' outputs ?
11:50 phf but then as far as i understand question becomes can the internal gpu drive the total surface space of those monitors? i'm not quite sure how it works
11:50 asciilifeform phf: their docs re the 'mini' brick (newest 1, with such ports) seem to suggest 'drives 3, but 1 must be via hdmi'
11:51 asciilifeform so in fact loox like the only crapples that can pump out 3 displayports are 'studio', 'pro' lappy, and 'cheese grater'
11:51 asciilifeform ( of the arm boxen, that is )
11:52 phf if i were building a mac powerstation, and lets say i used one of those "sealed boxes" as a base, like macbook or mac mini, i'd go the egpu route
11:53 asciilifeform phf: per crapple docs, egpu only worx on intel crapples
11:53 phf well, you know about it more than i do then
11:54 asciilifeform was trying to find out before buying paperweight for its weight in gold, lol
11:55 * asciilifeform already bought, lol, 1 paperweight
11:55 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-17 12:56:37 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: has also been carrying on a crapple port of gui pestron proto (for use on lappies) but developing on lappy has proved physically unpleasant
11:56 phf i've just assembled an PC COMPUTER (pronounced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q77YBmtd2Rw&t=25s) and marveled at how fucking insanely fast it is
11:57 phf as our mutual bolix friend said "oh you just noticed a difference between a 45W gaytop and a 150w TDP desktop chip??"
11:57 asciilifeform phf: i've a '$maxint' 'threadripper' in there, and the m2 el cheapo in fact beats the shit outta it
11:57 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-23 13:38:50 asciilifeform[5]: phf: for comparison: 2m 49s on 'threadripper' 3960X.
11:57 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-17 13:04:01 asciilifeform[4]: ( tho, interestingly, that thing is in fact the fastest (single-threaded, at any rate) box in asciilifeform's torture room, lol
11:58 * asciilifeform was convinced there's some kinda fraud in published benchmarks, ended up in fact buying the box to see for himself. wasn't a fraud.
11:59 asciilifeform x86 suxx, 'news at 11'..
12:00 asciilifeform even compile (gnat) is ~5x faster on the 'm2' vs 'threadripper'
12:01 phf asciilifeform, i should probably run some benchmarks.. e.g. are you comparing "like for like"
12:01 asciilifeform granted, it's a 2020 threadripper.
12:02 phf well, no, what's you memory freq, are you compiling it off scsi ssd or m.2
12:03 phf e.g. your threadrippre is probably ecc, while m1 is not, that ought to add overhead, particularly on such "tight loop" ops
12:16 phf like if you're getting 5x compile speed differences Something Else Is Going on, for sure. i can buy that m1 is faster than equivalent or previous small device cpus by a margin
12:17 asciilifeform phf: 'samsung 970 pro' nvme ssd in the 'threadripper'. sadly dun recall the precise memory bw
12:17 * asciilifeform will dig when gets a chance
12:18 phf i have openbsd running on my m1 (which was the original reason for even buying it, since long forgotten
12:18 asciilifeform phf: the benchmark in question was (see thrd) ffa, which strongly suspect fits in l1 on both irons. so prolly aint the memory bus. but hard to say for certain.
12:19 phf ) so i might be able to setup a like for like benchmark
12:19 asciilifeform phf: asciilifeform considering to buy the 'studio' brick, and bsd etc. but not knows whether the gpu has been reversed
12:20 phf no, def not to the point of running it with multiple HDMI monitors or anything like that
12:20 asciilifeform recipe for that benchmark for ref.
12:20 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-23 14:15:00 asciilifeform[6]: ftr, how to run: 1) throw out the flags (e.g. '-static') that dunwork on crapple gnat; 2) in limits.ads, up the max tape from 1MB to 12MB 3) up the stack to max crapple permits: ulimit -s 65520 3) :
12:20 * asciilifeform bbl -- teatime
12:25 phf oh, i thought you were saying ~gnat compiles~ 5x faster
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12:26 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-23#1016815 << that particular tape has not been published afaiu
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12:26 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-23 14:15:08 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot]: time cat tapes/10k_shots_1024bit_ffa_slid_rnd.tape | ./ffacalc/bin/peh 1024 32 10660000 0
12:33 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023484 << "hacker" "culture"
12:33 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-17 13:03:53 signpost: in unrelated news, phf is right. half of "AI" is trans weebs.
12:35 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023489 << i'm going through this article https://jaykmody.com/blog/gpt-from-scratch/ at the moment
12:35 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-17 13:05:24 signpost: booting up an opensource turd gpt
12:35 phf unfortunate side-effect of PC COMPUTER is that it runs cyberpunk 2077 as well as it does numpy
12:39 phf right above quoted line there was a conversation about apple computer leasing and tivoization and all that, which ties with the gpt https://archive.is/PUShr
12:40 phf "OpenAI Proposes Government Restrict AI Chips to Prevent Propaganda Explosion" (i haven't read the article, but it appears to summarize and link to relevant openai paper)
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12:42 phf funny thing when we had the previous conversation about chatgpt, i was going to make a cyberpunk themed joke, "oh yeah they are going to classify high-performance gpus as munitions so that you can't make your chatgpt say bad words at home"
12:43 phf i since found out that high-performance gpus already have export restrictions (kind of obvious, but i didn't think about it), and of course openai people being what they are they are proposing such measures in earnest
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12:44 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023481
12:44 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-17 13:02:18 billymg: asciilifeform: you vill own nothing and you vill be happy
12:51 billymg http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023700 << recalls 90s apple ad for G4 desktop
12:51 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-18 12:40:26 phf[awt|deedbot]: "OpenAI Proposes Government Restrict AI Chips to Prevent Propaganda Explosion" (i haven't read the article, but it appears to summarize and link to relevant openai paper)
12:55 billymg nvidia also supposedly cancelling plans for their 48GB consumer card, can't help but think it's related
12:55 phf that ad is relevant, but man what a lame ad. just stylistically and thematically
12:59 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023692 << it was in a tarball in ch14
12:59 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-18 12:26:46 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-23#1016815 << that particular tape has not been published afaiu
13:00 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023691 << ftr was 'naked eye' observation, there, asciilifeform not timed the compile.
13:00 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-18 12:25:08 phf[awt|deedbot]: oh, i thought you were saying ~gnat compiles~ 5x faster
13:01 phf in other news, asciilifeform has switched jobs and now is working for apple corporation!
13:01 asciilifeform lol satan preserve
13:04 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023702 << the very phrase 'export restrictions' invokes '80s nostalgia, y'know, back when serious irons were actually stamped out in the reich proper
13:04 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-18 12:43:56 phf[awt|deedbot]: i since found out that high-performance gpus already have export restrictions (kind of obvious, but i didn't think about it), and of course openai people being what they are they are proposing such measures in earnest
13:04 asciilifeform 'verboten to ship a microvax to su!' etc
13:06 phf the "unlicensed site bugfix" folklore stories
13:06 asciilifeform kremvax(tm)(r) !
13:08 phf i feel like at some i posted homepage of somebody from kurchatov talking about ins and outs of running custom whatever it was pdp at a closed research facility
13:09 asciilifeform re gptism -- asciilifeform played, like errybody else, with the public demo, and still can't muster much moar excitement than had for 'eliza' in '90s. gpttron does a kinda 90% emulation of the segment of the net people asciilifeform not cares to interact with, lolyes. but this was good for an evening's lul, at most
13:10 asciilifeform phf: not recall the pdp link, but possibly. (and if one believes rumours, to this day they're baking bk0010-style micropdp dies in zelenograd, for the 'land that time forgot' eternal 1980s reenactments)
13:11 * asciilifeform unearthed a 'mk-85' pocket calculator at one pt, with that same chipset. runs on a watch battery installed in 1990 (seal still intact, lol), a++
13:12 phf "you think you need more than pdp in your self guided rocket control? you have desease of american capitalist!"
13:12 asciilifeform ^
13:13 asciilifeform fwiw reich's 'minute man 3' reportedly still pdp11.
13:13 phf my impression is further up the critical infrastructure chain you go the more "still X" you get
13:14 asciilifeform ( or at least claimed. likely if they confessed that it runs win10 , errybody else will pull triggers , lol )
13:14 asciilifeform phf: indeed
13:14 * asciilifeform recalls old #t thrd re pdp11 install base in nuke power industry
13:15 phf my favorite one is nyc subway running on os/2, which, and i mean the story, i find to be aesthetically pleasing
13:16 * asciilifeform not so many yrs ago, still had a working os2 box. 'galciv' !
13:17 asciilifeform iirc nyc subway until mid-90s still ran on the original mech relays.
13:17 asciilifeform and until '80 or so, powered by orig. steam dynamo.
13:17 asciilifeform 'if it worx, dunfixit'
13:20 phf if it worx, have a vendor rebuild it in node.js for $xmil
13:20 asciilifeform inevitable
13:22 * asciilifeform recalls '1st swallows of spring' there, e.g. boeing's cppization and luloverflow bugola etc
13:23 asciilifeform the folx who not grew up on lol.js etc and can actually program 'on watch battery installed in 1990' dun live 4evah. inescapably will be replaced with what's avail. to replace'em with.
13:24 phf i don't think that it's just "kids these days". as some people like to point out "there's more freaks online now than used to be, but the noise is higher"
13:24 asciilifeform phf: is moar of a 'you are what you eat' problem, unfortunately
13:25 phf e.g. poc||gtfo zoomers program on watch battery for fun, then go to design python backends for adtech
13:27 asciilifeform cultural demise. recall thrds re 'they then bring adtech habits to emacs' etc
13:28 asciilifeform 'soar with the pigs by day and wallow with the eagles at night' turns out not worx so well in practice.
13:29 phf i think it's just the sheer number of pigs
13:30 phf and the application of computing where it need not be
13:30 asciilifeform oblig
13:31 asciilifeform grr wat
13:31 asciilifeform index off, apparently
13:31 asciilifeform let's try that again
13:32 asciilifeform aand nao it's in buffer limbo, lol
13:32 phf yeah i mean smarttv, why. but there's a hacker somewhere there in the mix trying to get a bunch of chatgpts to produce code that works and hold it all together
13:32 dulapbot (asciilifeform) 2022-04-22 asciilifeform: ( meanwhile you prolly can't buy a flashlight w/out a computer. and crashes. Because Reasons )
13:32 dulapbot (asciilifeform) 2020-05-10 asciilifeform: i've found flashlights w/ 8bit micros in'em.
13:33 asciilifeform phf: from 'heighten the contradictions'(tm)(r) pov -- a++. wainot, let's crank out 'indian coad' with subtle bugola on erry 3rd line at speed of gpu instead of speed of indians, wainot
13:38 phf well, the point i want to make but keep not making, is that you have diffusion of talent, combined with misallocation of talent. in the 70s everyone who's anyone was at a handful of "unix rooms", mit ai lib, xerox, bell labs. these day neither unix room nor the kind of tasks it was set to solve are economically viable.
13:41 asciilifeform phf: (iirc beaten to a painful death in ye olde #t bug) see also pike 2k, where evident that the 'egyptian stagnation' already underway then.
13:41 asciilifeform *#t but..
13:41 phf yah
13:42 phf subj has been beaten to death, also old man yell at clowd
13:44 asciilifeform fwiw it prolly is still possible to learn 'on watch battery' from old b00kz & artifacts , and then go on even to program for dough w/out ever touching 'adtech & loljs' , just as was possible when asciilifeform started. but the door to that world aint getting any wider or easier to open, quite opposite
13:45 * asciilifeform fwiw never sat in the 'unix rooms', set foot in a 'mit', etc
13:46 asciilifeform or take e.g. a fella asciilifeform once taught & worked with, who was booted outta high school, drove truck by day and learned to reverse at night on 'warcraft 2' adhoc net, still going in 2010s, lol
13:46 asciilifeform walked in with 0day for subj, lol, which got him hired
13:48 asciilifeform such things , suspect, remain possible, but the # of cracks in the pavement you gotta fall through is climbing.
13:48 phf i know some ru hackerspace zoomers, who are talented hackers, they are all working for different paid in shitcoin cryptoscam builders
13:50 asciilifeform hey, 1 kind of salt mine where harvesting printola from idjits is moar or less same as anuther
13:50 asciilifeform the sad part is that no 'state of art' is advanced. but this -- same nao as 20y ago
13:52 * asciilifeform must bbl
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