#pest | 2022-12-07

Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans

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08:07	phf	man was at least a philosophy TA at some point, enitrely entitled to take a deductive tone in this case, and in many others.
08:08	phf	but i'm curious, do you think you'll ever forgive your former friend, who's now dead, over an unpleasant falling out you guys had?
08:10	phf	and the other question is do you perceive any particular tone in your own writing from that time?
		~ 2 hours 50 minutes ~
11:00	asciilifeform	phf: prolly asciilifeform from the period would read, to 'civilian', as even moar unhinged than mp
11:01	asciilifeform	re 'forgive' -- dead fella not needs anybody's forgiveness. in asciilifeform's pov, situation resembled (and for all asciilifeform knew, resolved to) terminal alcoholism.
11:02	asciilifeform	forgive friend who dissolved his brain? sure. still unpleasant to rewatch the process.
11:04	signpost	but lettuce not now forgive NPCs for their lowliness!
11:04	*	signpost shakes jowls vigorously
11:04	signpost	every. single. one of us. was at max arrogance during the period.
11:05	signpost	this is probably even a necessary ingredient of any aspirational cultural upheaval.
11:05	*	signpost can still look back and enjoy
11:05	signpost	ain't as if most of us are now dead, even.
11:06	*	signpost sees asciilifeform's pest work as having much cultural continuity with that past.
11:06	signpost	the hallowed status of the logs, and putting them at their right place, among a peerage.
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		~ 43 minutes ~
11:50	asciilifeform	signpost: asciilifeform enthusiastically went with the 'upheaval' style -- warpaint, 'hurrah patriotism', whole kit. and these things are viscerally fun, but imho inevitably distracting from productively sweating over handmade clockwork
11:51	asciilifeform	'upheaval with warpaint' prolly worx better for 'd00dz with pointy sticks' fighting style than for 'let's build machines'
11:55	asciilifeform	mp for his part was visibly (and sympathetically) frustrated at presiding over band of clockmakers rather than pikemen. but if wanted the latter, oughta have config'd his time machine correctly.
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11:56	shinohai	logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-07#1017724 << "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness ...."
11:59	asciilifeform	( see also e.g. )
11:59	dulapbot	(asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: mp went on for kilometres re 'effete codemonkey's bias in favour of buttonpressing solutions' but suffered equally idiotic 'meatmonkey's bias for 'manly'-flavoured solutions'
12:00	signpost	all of us retch at our uncivilized times in our way.
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12:00	*	signpost has no counterargument to any of the above.
		~ 1 hours 42 minutes ~
13:43	whaack	asciilifeform: re gg marquez, thx. i had tried that book before but it was above my paygrade at the time. taking a crack at it again.
13:46	whaack	alternative to z library (which i've heard is now only available via on tor) --> https://annas-archive.org/
13:46	whaack	via tor*
		~ 6 hours 3 minutes ~
19:50	crtdaydreams	http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-07#1017734 << is there atonement for transgressions past, or must one wait in eternal restlessness for consequence?
19:50	bitbot	Logged on 2022-12-07 12:00:03 signpost: all of us retch at our uncivilized times in our way.
20:00	crtdaydreams	I ask for a nietzschean lens, but all other interpretations are welcome.
		~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
21:04	signpost	I don't get the question. atonement from what?
21:04	*	signpost not very restless either.
21:05	signpost	forgiveness is for you, keeps your brain from baby-bathwatering useful chunks of identity by attaching them too tightly to an enemy.
21:06	signpost	the dead are dead from cause, not towards purpose.
		~ 39 minutes ~
21:45	crtdaydreams	Broadly; atonement from wrongs done unto others. Whether it be something I've said that I too believe was wrong (not to be conflated with merely an offence), or something I have done that I have had good cause to regret.
21:49	signpost	what's the atonement do? presumably keep the others from taking revenge on you by mutual agreement to The Rules.
21:49	crtdaydreams	signpost: alleviates the guilty conscience.
21:50	signpost	if it's not that, it's entirely between your ears.
21:50	crtdaydreams	but yes that too.
21:53	crtdaydreams	saying it's entirely between your ears seems rather solipsistic imo.
21:53	signpost	tradition says if you feel guilty, good. you know you're an animal, whereas the next guy's pretending he's not.
21:53	signpost	your psychological guilt is literally a data structure between your ears.
21:54	crtdaydreams	there are consequences from those actions that have a direct effect on others, wasn't constraining that definition of guilt to an internal representation
21:55	signpost	so fix the consequences if they bother you.
21:55	signpost	if you can't, throw yourself on the mercy of those you wronged if you care so much.
21:56	crtdaydreams	I can't find the thread, but the one good thing that came out of verisimilitude was along the lines of "I don't make mistakes anymore"
21:56	crtdaydreams	pertaining to the idea of a correct response on eternal recurrence
21:56	signpost	if you don't care so much, you're playing with yourself by thinking about guilt.
21:57	crtdaydreams	evidently I would not bring this up if it did not have a sufficient impact on my daily functioning
21:57	signpost	sounds like door number two then, eh?
21:58	crtdaydreams	?
21:58	signpost	are you reading what I'm writing, or waiting to say more yourself?
21:58	signpost	the second of three options I gave.
21:58	crtdaydreams	right.
21:59	crtdaydreams	I appreciate your advice.
21:59	crtdaydreams	Thank you.
22:02	signpost	sure
		~ 23 minutes ~
22:25	signpost	fwiw where nietzsche falls down imo is in his soldiering alone. there is this being, it's atomic; what do we teach it so it improves itself over time?
22:26	signpost	there are no perfectly separate individuals. the edges are messy and bleed over, which is why whatever troubles you does.
22:27	signpost	christ said love your neighbor as yourself in acknowledgement of this reality, and not to encourage you to pretend it's true.
22:28	*	signpost grows convinced that the distributed computation is the thing, or is at least more thingly than individual meat puppets.
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22:28	signpost	to bed, cya
22:38	crtdaydreams	nini

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