#ossasepia | 2020-06-04

01:39

http://trilema.com/2020/troco-as-in-truculence/ << Trilema -- Troco, as in truculence

~ 4 hours 39 minutes ~

06:19

http://thetarpit.org/2020/building-trb-on-debian-wheezy-a-report << The Tar Pit -- Building TRB on Debian Wheezy; a report

~ 8 hours 53 minutes ~

15:12

diana_coman

BingoBoingo, from what I see, your Montevideo Standard and/or video exploration is working well for you and I'm glad for it but since your focus is naturally there entirely, it seems to me you are better off as former member of yhc rather than in that hopefuls category; is this alright with you?

15:15

jfw

I was thinking about this why snowflakes, so far just came up with: "because pretense appears cheaper/easier than actually becoming an individual"

15:15

sonofawitch

2020-06-03 22:24:21 (#ossasepia) diana_coman: not all that strange if you think of *why* is it so all-important, heh

15:20

jfw

diana_coman: not sure if you caught this admittedly belated update given "welcome back to the summaries". Now to make 'em actually daily...

15:21

diana_coman

jfw I did catch them but yeah, they didn't seem quite all that regular/daily, heh

15:22

jfw

gotcha.

15:27

diana_coman

jfw re snowflake, that's already secondary, not in any way a cause of the focus as such

15:29

diana_coman

and for that matter in general - nobody ever gets offended by words that don't touch some real sore spot; nor does anyone obsess over matters that are already sorted and taken care of for reals.

15:30

BingoBoingo

diana_coman: That is ok with me.

15:33

diana_coman

jfw it's not as much that the pretense seems easier - it's more that there isn't much else left within the boundaries that they chose already - or alternatively, it's more that the actual being terrifies to such extent that it seems outright impossible; and the terror gets papered over with ever-louder chanting that "it's great as it is!!"

15:37

diana_coman

and sure, it's also just one result of a long string of previous choices (sometimes choices made unknowingly, sure, not less choices made for that)

15:38

diana_coman

so indeed, it is way, way easier to pretend given all the lack of exercise at being accumulated previously

15:39

diana_coman

this doesn't make it work any better, nor does it make more important nor a better choice

15:41

diana_coman

basically the pretense by that point is the easy and even "strategy" - to the extent that you'd call a river's flowing towards next lowest point a "strategy", since it's quite that, simply lowest effort in the moment

15:42

diana_coman

even natural "strategy" * (not sure why I keep skipping words lately)

15:43

jfw

easier to say you're where you want to be than to paddle back upstream once you've missed it.

15:45

diana_coman

hm, not even as much that; it's more like this - the lack of being is perceived and it gnaws terribly; for all that, there aren't any resources to be able to even realise that "paddling upstream is needed" or anything of the sort; so ...to appease fear, what is left but talking loudly

15:46

diana_coman

hence my earlier choice of word "chanting" because to some extent it's quite that - a ritual for lack of any better.

15:49

diana_coman

for that matter, the same mechanism applies and is obvious to even way simpler things - I lost count how many teenagers "lacking confidence for the exams" I saw; how could they have any confidence armed as they were with a... set of rules of which they understood ~nothing; sure, they had all the words that "it's good" and "well done" and great marks and all that but they were too alive to not

15:49

diana_coman

notice (even if without being able to explain it/ put it into words) the trouble

15:51

diana_coman

the "cure" being in each and every case, sitting them down and getting them to actually make sense for the first time of whatever it was, the tiniest bit to start with; works wonders.

15:53

jfw

like memorizing formulas without seeing how they're derived or proven? which is what I noticed was mostly happening around early teens

15:55

diana_coman

heh, worse - "learning" by having gone through a set of known problems with known steps-to-solve; basically pattern-matching, all of it.

15:59

diana_coman

coming back round to why is it so all-important that everyone is a special and unique snowflake - precisely because it's an important thing that is lost/given up.

15:59

sonofawitch

2020-06-03 22:24:21 (#ossasepia) diana_coman: not all that strange if you think of *why* is it so all-important, heh

15:59

jfw

not quite seeing the "worse" re pattern-matching: isn't that just what a formula is? "given this problem, follow these steps"

16:01

diana_coman

ah, "formula" in my head stands literally for something like F=m*a lol; not a full algorithm basically; but yes, if you meant "given this problem, follow these steps" then indeed, that.

16:02

jfw

indeed I meant it as an example then it generalized.

16:04

jfw

thanks for the explain!

16:05

diana_coman

yw

01:39	feedbot	http://trilema.com/2020/troco-as-in-truculence/ << Trilema -- Troco, as in truculence
		~ 4 hours 39 minutes ~
06:19	feedbot	http://thetarpit.org/2020/building-trb-on-debian-wheezy-a-report << The Tar Pit -- Building TRB on Debian Wheezy; a report
		~ 8 hours 53 minutes ~
15:12	diana_coman	BingoBoingo, from what I see, your Montevideo Standard and/or video exploration is working well for you and I'm glad for it but since your focus is naturally there entirely, it seems to me you are better off as former member of yhc rather than in that hopefuls category; is this alright with you?
15:15	jfw	I was thinking about this why snowflakes, so far just came up with: "because pretense appears cheaper/easier than actually becoming an individual"
15:15	sonofawitch	2020-06-03 22:24:21 (#ossasepia) diana_coman: not all that strange if you think of why is it so all-important, heh
15:20	jfw	diana_coman: not sure if you caught this admittedly belated update given "welcome back to the summaries". Now to make 'em actually daily...
15:21	diana_coman	jfw I did catch them but yeah, they didn't seem quite all that regular/daily, heh
15:22	jfw	gotcha.
15:27	diana_coman	jfw re snowflake, that's already secondary, not in any way a cause of the focus as such
15:29	diana_coman	and for that matter in general - nobody ever gets offended by words that don't touch some real sore spot; nor does anyone obsess over matters that are already sorted and taken care of for reals.
15:30	BingoBoingo	diana_coman: That is ok with me.
15:33	diana_coman	jfw it's not as much that the pretense seems easier - it's more that there isn't much else left within the boundaries that they chose already - or alternatively, it's more that the actual being terrifies to such extent that it seems outright impossible; and the terror gets papered over with ever-louder chanting that "it's great as it is!!"
15:37	diana_coman	and sure, it's also just one result of a long string of previous choices (sometimes choices made unknowingly, sure, not less choices made for that)
15:38	diana_coman	so indeed, it is way, way easier to pretend given all the lack of exercise at being accumulated previously
15:39	diana_coman	this doesn't make it work any better, nor does it make more important nor a better choice
15:41	diana_coman	basically the pretense by that point is the easy and even "strategy" - to the extent that you'd call a river's flowing towards next lowest point a "strategy", since it's quite that, simply lowest effort in the moment
15:42	diana_coman	even natural "strategy" * (not sure why I keep skipping words lately)
15:43	jfw	easier to say you're where you want to be than to paddle back upstream once you've missed it.
15:45	diana_coman	hm, not even as much that; it's more like this - the lack of being is perceived and it gnaws terribly; for all that, there aren't any resources to be able to even realise that "paddling upstream is needed" or anything of the sort; so ...to appease fear, what is left but talking loudly
15:46	diana_coman	hence my earlier choice of word "chanting" because to some extent it's quite that - a ritual for lack of any better.
15:49	diana_coman	for that matter, the same mechanism applies and is obvious to even way simpler things - I lost count how many teenagers "lacking confidence for the exams" I saw; how could they have any confidence armed as they were with a... set of rules of which they understood ~nothing; sure, they had all the words that "it's good" and "well done" and great marks and all that but they were too alive to not
15:49	diana_coman	notice (even if without being able to explain it/ put it into words) the trouble
15:51	diana_coman	the "cure" being in each and every case, sitting them down and getting them to actually make sense for the first time of whatever it was, the tiniest bit to start with; works wonders.
15:53	jfw	like memorizing formulas without seeing how they're derived or proven? which is what I noticed was mostly happening around early teens
15:55	diana_coman	heh, worse - "learning" by having gone through a set of known problems with known steps-to-solve; basically pattern-matching, all of it.
15:59	diana_coman	coming back round to why is it so all-important that everyone is a special and unique snowflake - precisely because it's an important thing that is lost/given up.
15:59	sonofawitch	2020-06-03 22:24:21 (#ossasepia) diana_coman: not all that strange if you think of why is it so all-important, heh
15:59	jfw	not quite seeing the "worse" re pattern-matching: isn't that just what a formula is? "given this problem, follow these steps"
16:01	diana_coman	ah, "formula" in my head stands literally for something like F=m*a lol; not a full algorithm basically; but yes, if you meant "given this problem, follow these steps" then indeed, that.
16:02	jfw	indeed I meant it as an example then it generalized.
16:04	jfw	thanks for the explain!
16:05	diana_coman	yw