Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-02-04 | 2020-02-06 → ↓
03:03 jfw I'm celebrating the minor mental victory of getting back into the wallet code and specifically the godawful signing algorithm I hadn't touched since '17.
03:05 jfw Already grabbed the lower hanging fruits so quite possible that's why I wasn't feeling so motivated for picking it back up.
~ 1 hours 4 minutes ~
04:10 whaack diana_coman: EOD Report: I let installing Eulora eat up the better part of my day. I fell short on my saltmine hours (I only did 5) and also did not do my 1.5 hour of outlining for my article to be published tomorrow.
~ 3 hours 37 minutes ~
07:47 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-04#1017292 - aha; that's why it helps to have a ton of motivation from the wider picture than any specific task itself.
07:47 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-04 23:17:27 jfw: Already grabbed the lower hanging fruits so quite possible that's why I wasn't feeling so motivated for picking it back up.
07:49 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017293 - you know, it looks like you'd rather focus on something until you're done with it and then move on; it's not necessarily a problem in itself, just adjust accordingly so the rest still gets done even if on another day.
07:49 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-05 00:22:21 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I let installing Eulora eat up the better part of my day. I fell short on my saltmine hours (I only did 5) and also did not do my 1.5 hour of outlining for my article to be published tomorrow.
~ 7 hours 6 minutes ~
14:56 whaack diana_coman: that's part of it, i thought about just switching my saltmines day to today and finishing up the job entirely. I probably should have, but I wanted to stick to what was left of my schedule.
14:57 whaack diana_coman: in any event, i'll allocate 90 mins to fix the next problem with installing this morning: 'configure:3522: error: possibly undefined macro _AC_CC'
15:04 whaack the versions of some relevant tools: autoconf: 2.63 ; libtool 2.2.6b; automake 1.11.1
~ 48 minutes ~
15:52 whaack i fixed my problem by upgrading to autoconf 2.69. redhat ships autoconf 2.63 with centos 6, so i'm not quite sure how i wound up with autoconf 2.63 in the first place.
16:00 diana_coman whaack: heh, so it was version trouble indeed; anyways, well done sorting it out.
16:00 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-04 15:35:25 diana_coman: whaack: uhm, I didn't run into that either; it really sounds like you are missing something/have mismatched versions
16:05 whaack diana_coman: when you get an opportunity can you gpg me my eulora credentials?
16:10 diana_coman whaack: o.O you said you already had an account?
16:11 whaack diana_coman: yes.. the credentials are stored on a desktop that I did not take out of the reich
16:12 diana_coman ...
16:16 BingoBoingo Ouch
16:23 whaack diana_coman: Although I would much prefer to not have to, I understand if I have to wait until I make a visit home to get it. And in full disclosure I've made a similar / the same mistake before.
16:23 ossabot (trilema) 2017-01-13 mircea_popescu: whaack oh didn't you have one already ?
~ 34 minutes ~
16:58 whaack travel_billy: how has the rest of your trip turned out?
17:08 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017304 - to put it plainly: I can; I am not convinced that I should and you are certainly not helping there much because the way it looks you clearly consider those credentials worth ~0 and/or other people's problem.
17:08 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-05 12:17:39 whaack: diana_coman: when you get an opportunity can you gpg me my eulora credentials?
17:18 whaack diana_coman: my evaluation of the credentials has changed, and I acknowledge that my fuck up is a waste of your time.
~ 1 hours 21 minutes ~
18:39 diana_coman hello c0ncord
18:39 diana_coman what brings you here?
18:39 c0ncord Hello, guys.
18:40 c0ncord I'd like to work on blockchain things.
18:41 diana_coman c0ncord: have you been working on something related? or how /why?
18:41 c0ncord yes, I have
18:42 c0ncord wow, i like that motto "work on what matters, so you matter too"
18:42 diana_coman c0ncord: cheers!
18:43 diana_coman c0ncord: do you have a blog/site/write somewhere?
18:43 c0ncord i generally hang out on irc, may i OTR you?
18:43 diana_coman c0ncord: why do you want/need OTR?
18:44 diana_coman as you can see, we quite hang out on irc too, lolz.
18:44 diana_coman except with logs and all that, quite publicly.
18:44 diana_coman c0ncord: how did you find #trilema?
18:44 c0ncord for more privacy, you know, here we're being logged, i generally don't mind but... in order to build trust you need to speak more about yourself and... i feel the need for more privacy
18:45 c0ncord how did i find? well, it was long ago, i don't quite remember, but this time, today, i was looking for a SegWit-free bitcoin implementation
18:45 diana_coman c0ncord: you are right re trust that it involves indeed to get to know the person, sure; the privacy however doesn't quite link like that but... take your time, there's no hurry :)
18:46 diana_coman c0ncord: oh, so you've been lurking for a while? or just found it and then went away and now came back again or what is it?
18:47 diana_coman you know, I'm asking you this stuff exactly to get to know you as otherwise nothing will come out of it really; otoh if you don't know me, there's all the logs and my blog and younghands.club and ..you can always ask whatever you need to ask.
18:47 c0ncord no lurking, only knew about the project some time ago, "the real bitcoin", thought it was kinda cool
18:47 dorion http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017330 - cool. welcome c0ncord.
18:47 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-05 14:57:57 c0ncord: how did i find? well, it was long ago, i don't quite remember, but this time, today, i was looking for a SegWit-free bitcoin implementation
18:48 c0ncord thanks, man
18:48 diana_coman c0ncord: do you know what the WoT is/
18:48 diana_coman ?
18:48 c0ncord yes
18:48 c0ncord web of trust
18:48 diana_coman c0ncord: so why not register a key with deedbot then?
18:49 c0ncord yeah, why not
18:49 c0ncord i like learning new stuff every day
18:49 diana_coman c0ncord: specifically re what the WoT is
18:50 diana_coman c0ncord: plenty to learn around here.
18:50 c0ncord thanks, i'm reading
18:50 c0ncord :)
18:50 diana_coman take your time, there's no rush
18:51 diana_coman dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-04#1017222
18:51 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-04 15:25:08 diana_coman: dorion: is this silence-since-Sunday the busy-silence or the stuck-silence?
18:51 dorion c0ncord I lurked for quite a while too.
18:52 c0ncord > "you know, I'm asking you this stuff exactly to get to know you as otherwise nothing will come out of it really; otoh if you don't know
18:52 c0ncord me, there's all the logs and my blog and younghands.club and ..you can always ask whatever you need to ask.
18:52 c0ncord "
18:52 c0ncord yes, i've been reading your blog today
18:52 diana_coman o.O ALL of it?
18:52 c0ncord haha, impossible
18:53 c0ncord let's say I'm impressed by your intellect
18:53 diana_coman well, I'll admit I haven't written all that much or even as much as would have been best but...yeah, still.
18:54 diana_coman c0ncord: let's say then thank you.
18:55 dorion diana_coman busy silence, but that includes the busy getting unstuck silence, i.e. I've been reflecting on the my habits via the hand written journal and that has included researching and practicing some new techniques.
18:56 dorion diana_coman working on unpacking the luggage, so to speak.
18:56 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-02 16:08:21 diana_coman: dorion: luggage in the sense of unexamined habits/practices
18:57 diana_coman dorion: sounds good; what's your plan re the due draft of that tmsr os page, do you want feedback on it (and if yes, when)?
18:58 diana_coman c0ncord: where in the world are you?
18:59 c0ncord sorry for the noobiness, what is TMSR?
18:59 diana_coman the most serene republic; #trilema is its forum
18:59 diana_coman it's a deep rabbit hole you found, heh, take it easy
18:59 c0ncord a rock band?
18:59 diana_coman ahahah
18:59 whaack lmao
18:59 c0ncord google lies to me? how it comes?
19:01 diana_coman c0ncord: for the short explanation, you might want to read the thread starting for instance here (maybe the whole day there could be of interest to you, dunno)
19:01 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-16 16:43:15 diana_coman: jfw: as to the republic as a whole, the fundamental aspect I'd say is the fact that it's a republic of men (ie individual agents, active and self-directed entities)
19:01 whaack c0ncord: i've been practicing the guitar, jfw played the violin, and diana_coman the piano, but so far no albums yet
19:02 diana_coman jfw also said he played the piano; and dorion promissed a harmonica piece so yeah, could qualify for some band too, why not
19:02 c0ncord lol
19:03 c0ncord by the way, what is V? some sort of git alternative? are you guys crazy?
19:03 * dorion finally, recorded the harmonica piece, ode to joy, last night.
19:05 diana_coman c0ncord: now if I say "I'm not crazy" - would you believe me?
19:05 c0ncord Diana how it comes only today I learned about your existance? I heard about TMSR before (didn't know what it is, but heard the name at least), and of course read things about Mircea, but never about you.
19:05 diana_coman c0ncord: as to V, follow the link from my latest article to the overview
19:05 c0ncord or the rest of you, guys.
19:06 diana_coman c0ncord: well, I'm ...more invisible than Mircea for sure.
19:06 c0ncord I feel like I'm stepping in an old abandoned church were a secret society is holding a meeting or something.
19:06 diana_coman c0ncord: other than that, how do I know why *you* didn't hear of me? because you didn't look in the right place? lolz
19:07 c0ncord I always look at the right place: google. And google told me you don't exist.
19:07 diana_coman ahahah, it's publicly logged, what secret society?
19:07 whaack aha
19:08 diana_coman c0ncord: tsk; who could have imagined!
19:09 diana_coman c0ncord: where did you hear of tmsr before?
19:09 c0ncord I'm almost sure it was while reading about Mircea.
19:09 c0ncord but didn't understand what it was (still attempting)
19:09 dorion c0ncord Do you know what "personalized google searches" are ?
19:10 whaack c0ncord: also re google http://ztkfg.com/2018/11/google-shows-you-what-you-want-to-see/
19:10 diana_coman c0ncord: proper understanding takes some time; and a lot of effort on occasion, lol.
19:10 c0ncord i use duckduckgo on a hardened firefox profile behind few proxies and 3 vpn's
19:10 c0ncord which i cycle from time to time, of course
19:11 c0ncord duckduckgo sucks, i know
19:11 c0ncord i said "google" just kidding
19:11 diana_coman c0ncord: what did you read about Mircea?
19:11 c0ncord whaack: i'm aware, yeah
19:12 c0ncord diana_coman: that he was some kind of degenerate developer or something
19:12 c0ncord didn't pay much attention really
19:12 whaack dorion: sorry about not including you in the potential band, i am not denying the importance of the harmonica
19:12 diana_coman c0ncord: what's a "degenerate developer"?
19:12 c0ncord lol, i don't remember, my memory sucks
19:12 c0ncord but i didn't believe it
19:12 c0ncord politics in the crypto space is nauseating
19:12 diana_coman c0ncord: well, if you don't remember what it is, how do you know you don't believe it? lolz
19:13 c0ncord i remember not believing in the source, like it was some kind of politics drama or something
19:13 diana_coman c0ncord: politics is fine; shit and vomit trying to pass for politics are nauseating, sure, obviously.
19:13 c0ncord true
19:13 diana_coman ah, choose thy sources properly or you'll barf; certainly!
19:15 diana_coman jfw: why on earth did you never ever write that install script similar to the build script for gales? now I found out everything I never wanted to know about required kernel flags for using that initramfs of yours!
19:15 diana_coman c0ncord: what do you do for a living if you don't mind me asking?
19:17 c0ncord developer
19:18 diana_coman c0ncord: so what sort of things do you develop
19:20 diana_coman c0ncord: btw, if you need help with registering a key with deedbot, there's this handy guide
19:20 diana_coman and otherwise... ask in here if you get stuck.
19:20 c0ncord well, I'm trying to make things that help Humanity break free from centralized manipulation and authoritarianism
19:21 c0ncord thanks, gonna register soon
19:21 diana_coman c0ncord: hm, mind getting Humanity come by and say hi? I'd like to meet it.
19:22 diana_coman the overview of V, to keep your reading list full.
19:23 c0ncord sorry, i meant Humankind, our species
19:23 diana_coman c0ncord: that too! or what, now that centralized manipulation and authoritarianism are brought by aliens or how do you even imagine it?
19:24 diana_coman c0ncord: are you/have you been working alone?
19:25 c0ncord yes
19:26 diana_coman hopefully you had enough of that by now then! you know, man-alone is already a term of art around here (and it's not great for the ...man-alone).
19:28 c0ncord i have some projects in mind, i'm trying to work on them, but it's hard, very hard alone
19:28 c0ncord in a way, yes, it's been enough, it's been tough
19:30 diana_coman c0ncord: and it's self-defeating and unnecessary and unsanitary and ...do you need me to go on?
19:32 diana_coman c0ncord: how old are you, if it's not a secret?
19:32 c0ncord i prefer to remain anonymous
19:32 diana_coman c0ncord: why?
19:35 c0ncord i value anonymity a lot, the how i came to this point... it's a long story, that i enjoy discussing, but not in public, because... anonymity XD
19:36 diana_coman c0ncord: ain't that circularity a bit... biting your own tail there, don't you think?
19:37 c0ncord yes, it's recursive, and it's tough
19:37 diana_coman not to mention that hm, what did you do that terribly important that anyone cares to find out all that much about you anyway? and if they do...what?
19:38 c0ncord ah, i would love to respond to that question... otr (i know i sound like a jerk, sorry for that)
19:38 diana_coman c0ncord: do you realise you are asking me to keep you secrets ?
19:38 c0ncord yes
19:38 c0ncord i trust you
19:39 diana_coman c0ncord: that is fine and dandy re trust but keeping someone else's secrets has its costs and ...why would I pay that for a "you" that I don't know?
19:40 c0ncord cost not very high, i promise
19:40 diana_coman c0ncord: you can't promise on *my* costs, you know?
19:41 diana_coman c0ncord: but walk me through this contradiction here: you say it's important that you don't say it in public but at the same time the cost to keep it private is..."not very high"?
19:41 diana_coman how can that be?
19:41 c0ncord in any case, if you spill the beans, i'm the only affected, no consequences for you, my confessor
19:41 diana_coman if it is indeed important, then the cost is high; if the cost is low then it's not important.
19:41 diana_coman c0ncord: that's unrelated to the cost of *keeping a secret* though.
19:42 diana_coman that's related to the consequences of *not* keeping it, lol.
19:42 c0ncord oh, i see what you mean
19:43 c0ncord i never felt a weight in keeping others' secrets, if i feel the need to tell someone i just change the name or say "someone"
19:43 diana_coman ahahahha
19:43 c0ncord :D
19:43 diana_coman yeah, not "feeling a weight" has to do with not really keeping, certainly.
19:44 diana_coman around here words mean something though and apparently quite a lot more than outsiders imagine.
19:44 c0ncord i see
19:45 diana_coman c0ncord: for that matter, do you imagine a pm on irc is "kept a secret"?
19:45 c0ncord oh, only via OTR plugin
19:45 diana_coman which does what?
19:45 diana_coman (I had no idea there's a plugin for that, jeez)
19:46 c0ncord https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/
19:46 * diana_coman reluctantly goes to read
19:46 diana_coman and https too ffs
19:47 c0ncord i noticed that you guys don't use https, why is that?
19:48 diana_coman c0ncord: see this thread as the question has been asked before
19:48 ossabot Logged on 2019-07-25 17:51:00 diana_coman: back to the "protect the client" (note that there is still the assumption that https actually delivers on what is says though this is not true) - 1. what/how are you exactly protecting them? 2. why? 3. why would you even want to be read by someone who expects *you* to "protect" them without even knowing you, just like that because ...what?
19:50 diana_coman ahaha, win32 installer
19:50 c0ncord oh, yeah, i see what you mean
19:50 diana_coman c0ncord: you know, wtf do you need a plugin instead of just sending an encrypted (and signed if you want, sure) message?
19:51 c0ncord like, the certificate authorities can intercept the traffic and read
19:51 diana_coman people around here send those all the time, here, have a look how it goes, all those paste links were encrypted communciations: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-02-04
19:52 diana_coman c0ncord: not even *just* that; read the full thread there really, you won't get very far with just "the gist of it" or something
19:53 c0ncord i like otr because it offers perfect forward secrecy and deniability
19:53 diana_coman c0ncord: was that pre-recorded? lolz
19:55 diana_coman "if you lose control of your private keys" - good god.
19:56 diana_coman and seriously, *why* would you want to deny you said what you said? to basically make sure you end up with all the disadvantages possible and none of the advantages?
19:57 c0ncord that feature doesn't matter much really, it's just being able to say "i didn't say that" in a provable way
19:58 c0ncord or more precisely "you can't prove i said that"
19:58 jfw http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017416 - all I can say is, other priorities intervened, or more like other fires to put out; and since it was working fine for me it didn't become a fire in my mind (or dorion's afaik)
19:58 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-05 15:27:30 diana_coman: jfw: why on earth did you never ever write that install script similar to the build script for gales? now I found out everything I never wanted to know about required kernel flags for using that initramfs of yours!
19:58 jfw but, is this the diana_coman I know - complaining about having to learn things about how her system works? :)
19:59 diana_coman jfw: lolz, you don't really know how complaints actually sound, do you?
20:01 jfw I suppose I have an idea how worse ones sound; what word would you use then?
20:01 diana_coman c0ncord: you know, if you end up in the sort of situation where you need to say that, you are already screwed and no amount of your saying that will save you.
20:02 diana_coman jfw: mild rant at poor documentation :D
20:03 jfw diana_coman: aight, and the prod is appreciated too.
20:03 jfw any kernel flags in particular?
20:03 diana_coman it's in the ...write-up queue, hm.
20:03 c0ncord yeah, i agree, that's the least important of its features, i think
20:04 diana_coman c0ncord: yeah, it has way more important anti-features indeed :D
20:05 c0ncord don't you like perfect-forward secrecy?
20:05 diana_coman jfw: config_kernel_xz config_rd_xz config_dec_xz
20:05 diana_coman c0ncord: I don't see any reason to like it, no.
20:09 jfw diana_coman: gotcha. I like xz, perhaps in the way c0ncord likes his otr: not having looked inside. Substantially higher compression ratio than the classic lz77 in many cases. But ultimately I can't justify having multiple compression algos when not even one is V-signed. As was pointed out too
20:09 ossabot (trilema) 2019-12-14 mp_en_viaje: xz AND zlib lol ok, this discussio ncan continue later.
20:11 diana_coman jfw: aha.
20:23 jfw heh, the other point of course is that when your sources are so big that fiddling with compression yields substantial savings, you have way bigger problems and shouldn't be fiddling with the compression.
20:25 jfw (going not just for me but the rather numerous projects that've adopted tar.xz distribution these days)
20:26 BingoBoingo c0ncord: Experience suggests that the massive PR support encryption "for anonymity" and "deniability" enjoys in the mainstream isn't really that different from the marketing push towards "Segwit"
20:36 c0ncord how to remove the key i just registered on deedbot?
20:36 jfw c0ncord: my own foray into blogging and throwing off the shackles of the hallucinated option of private life (aka manaloning) begins at http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/hello-world/ . I'm presently working on what you might call "blockchain development" among other things
20:37 c0ncord gonna check it out, jfw, thanks
20:38 c0ncord <deedbot> 908173E641EE2B13D203BB9C46A3F4A6D19F6866 is already registered as c0ncord.
20:38 c0ncord :(
20:38 jfw c0ncord: something wrong with that key or why do you want to change?
20:39 c0ncord it was a mistake, i didn't want a 3072 bits key
20:40 c0ncord i thought default was 4096
20:42 jfw c0ncord, since you just now registered it might be doable, though in general such things are frowned on - another putting incentives in the right place thing.
20:42 jfw your best bet would be to join #trinque and ask trinque nicely
20:42 jfw if you're attached to the name
20:43 jfw (he operates deedbot)
20:44 c0ncord i will just join with another name later, don't worry
20:45 whaack c0ncord: nice, you'll be able to deny everything you've already said :p
20:45 c0ncord jfw, thanks a lot, and interesting af blog, reading it rn
20:46 jfw yw.
20:48 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017501 - that 2nd thought jfw that I love.
20:48 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-05 16:35:13 jfw: heh, the other point of course is that when your sources are so big that fiddling with compression yields substantial savings, you have way bigger problems and shouldn't be fiddling with the compression.
20:49 diana_coman c0ncord: btw, for your thorough information on what is tmsr
20:50 diana_coman c0ncord: so you'll get in with a different nick and...start all over?
20:54 dorion c0ncord you can use the key you registered to rate your new nick if you wanna go the new nick/key route.
21:00 dorion http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017365 - Friday is feasible for the draft. I will want feedback, but it's not a big rush. people are working through backlogs already and trinque has a specification planned as part 5 of his series.
21:00 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-05 15:09:59 diana_coman: dorion: sounds good; what's your plan re the due draft of that tmsr os page, do you want feedback on it (and if yes, when)?
21:01 dorion http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017406 - thanks, but I didn't take offense, esp given that I've not provided much cause for you to remember, yet.
21:01 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-05 15:24:29 whaack: dorion: sorry about not including you in the potential band, i am not denying the importance of the harmonica
21:02 dorion http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017503 - this is a good point.
21:02 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-05 16:39:07 BingoBoingo: c0ncord: Experience suggests that the massive PR support encryption "for anonymity" and "deniability" enjoys in the mainstream isn't really that different from the marketing push towards "Segwit"
~ 1 hours 38 minutes ~
22:41 d41r https://vim.cx/?cb714f8f99a9e93d#6sBoiPwPGnFPNQ5gRKJqv5TsxX9Dp7MCuHyNEKWXLzJ7
~ 27 minutes ~
23:09 dorion c0ncord/d41r wut is that link ?
23:12 d41r it's a javascript thing, your browser wouldn't understand
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