Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-02-03 | 2020-02-05 → ↓
06:21 whaack diana_coman: EOD Report: I did my daily writing (which went a bit overtime), 2h of setting up comp, and then 6h of saltmines. The 2h of setting up comp was well spent, I continued my study of the commands jfw had mentioned. After I gained some more knowledge it was easy to diagnose and fix my problem - my comp is now connected.
06:21 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 16:36:30 jfw: whaack: I suspect you've got some basics to learn here too. ifconfig and route commands, DHCP
06:26 jfw diana_coman: I've published notes in leau of a summary article today. Would you rather I finish that tomorrow or move on?
06:28 jfw The following log days were shorter so on the first pass reading side I'm all caught up.
06:30 jfw whaack: nice to hear, did you figure out if it was realtak driver problem or what?
06:30 * jfw will be back on the morrow.
~ 1 hours 33 minutes ~
08:04 diana_coman whaack: so what was the problem anyway?
08:08 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-04#1017152 - jfw, up to you really; fwiw notes were funny to read so I won't complain either way, not like they are not clear for me or anything of the sort, lol.
08:08 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-04 02:38:48 jfw: diana_coman: I've published notes in leau of a summary article today. Would you rather I finish that tomorrow or move on?
~ 5 hours 2 minutes ~
13:10 whaack diana_coman: The first problem is that the standard NIC by all appearances cannot send packets. I solved this by using a spare ethernet<->usb adapter. Then once I was using "eth1' instead of 'eth0' I could not connect because my routes table did not have the 'default' set to my router's ip address.
13:11 whaack diana_coman: Now that I have a connection I'll download gcc and compile the other driver for my network card and see if I can connect without using the ethernet<->usb adapter. If not then likely there is a problem with the hardware.
~ 34 minutes ~
13:46 diana_coman whaack: ahaha, your "I solved this" is "I worked around that", did you even notice?
13:48 whaack diana_coman: lol I missed that I used that wording just now.
~ 42 minutes ~
14:30 diana_coman yeah, not a distinction to which you are used to pay much attention, that's why; that's why I highlighted it too, because you should pay attention to it specifically and to this sort of differences more generally: it can be fine to choose a workaround instead of a solution in some cases but it's *never* fine to call things something other than they actually are.
~ 16 minutes ~
14:46 whaack diana_coman: understood. I know it is a workaround but the language I employed shows that on some level I see 'workarounds' and 'solutions' as interchangeable. I'll take care to make the distinction.
14:47 diana_coman aha.
14:50 whaack diana_coman: the real funny bit is i originally typed "I know it is a temporary solution but the..."
14:50 whaack (atm it looks like it's going to be a permanent work around)
~ 16 minutes ~
15:07 diana_coman there is no such thing as a "temporary solution" and it's still not a solution
15:07 diana_coman and yeah, the curse of "temporary" is that it ~always ends up permanent
~ 37 minutes ~
15:45 whaack diana_coman: do you have a specific type of article you'd like me to write for The Odyssey?
~ 56 minutes ~
16:41 diana_coman whaack: hm, what do you *want* to write now you read it?
16:48 whaack diana_coman: the first topic that comes to mind is something to do with the ethics of honesty, which would discuss how Odysseus occasionally makes up these long elaborate lies. Sometimes his deceitfulness seems prudent (i.e. when he's trying to keep his disguise while setting up his slaughter of the suitors)..sometimes it seems he's lying for sport (when he reunites with his father at first he pretends to be someone else for no rea
16:48 whaack son clear to me)
16:50 diana_coman whaack: ha, if you do a full blown analysis of deceitfulness @ Greeks, that would be quite something, lol
16:50 diana_coman can do a phd thesis out of the topic, I dare say (though yes, obv, not based on the odyssey alone, how could that ever be)
16:51 whaack lol, well I don't kid myself that I can do a great job on the topic, especially with a 3hr writing limit.
16:52 diana_coman whaack: so pick something that fits the time better or otherwise work on it more
16:53 whaack diana_coman: btw, the first eulora dependency from the fedora install guide, boost-jam, was not available
16:53 diana_coman whaack: how about choose your favourite event/chapter/part and review that - summarise what's going on, how it's built/told and why it matters
16:53 diana_coman link it to anything relevant you know otherwise
16:54 whaack diana_coman: okay
16:54 diana_coman whaack: yes, centos 6 has an older thing though that works; look for jam or ftjam , there is some package containing on or the other, can't recall now without the notes
16:55 whaack diana_coman: alright
16:56 whaack the weird thing though is i downloaded the rpm for bootjam and ran "cat boost-jam-1.55.0-25.el6.x86_64.rpm" (dont ask why) and my terminal turned into hieroglyphics, i had to restart my comp
16:56 diana_coman ahahah
16:56 whaack i don't understand why displaying characters to stdout would then change the symbols for characters permanently
16:57 jfw hehe, whaack learns about in-band signalling and state machines
16:57 diana_coman whaack: did you try simply a "reset" cmd first?
16:57 diana_coman before restarting computer, try some simpler measures, you know?
16:57 whaack let me reproduce the bug and try
16:58 whaack yes reset does the job
16:58 diana_coman whaack: btw, you'll get that sort of thing ~any time you display non-ascii
16:59 diana_coman jfw: you are an optimist after all!
17:01 jfw whaack: https://vt100.net/docs/vt100-ug/chapter3.html#SCS is what typically causes the hieroglyphs (box-drawing character set really, https://vt100.net/docs/vt100-ug/table3-9.html ), though there are other weird things that can happen too, of which 'reset' can fix most
17:01 whaack jfw: thanks i'll give the two a read
17:02 jfw diana_coman: what can I say, it worked last time just with some delay :D
17:04 jfw whaack: my go-to for displaying might-be-binary files is 'less', as it escapes terminal control characters by default
17:05 jfw of course to actually inspect a binary there's hexdump or xxd
17:07 jfw diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-04#1017157 - thanks; thinking I'll go for finishing it
17:07 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-04 04:20:04 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-04#1017152 - jfw, up to you really; fwiw notes were funny to read so I won't complain either way, not like they are not clear for me or anything of the sort, lol.
~ 32 minutes ~
17:40 whaack diana_coman: links to get cal3 http://minigame.biz/eulora/source/cal3d.tar.gz and http://minigame.biz/eulora/binaries/cal3d.tar.gz are dead atm
17:40 whaack Cal3D *
17:40 diana_coman whaack: yeah, use my blog
17:41 diana_coman minigame's website was not resurrected after pizarro's implosion.
17:41 whaack diana_coman: ty
17:42 diana_coman whaack: I guess update the wiki too, what can it hurt.
17:42 whaack diana_coman: I was about to say I'm on it
17:42 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Please let me know if you would like the domain DNS pointed somewhere else. Right now it's all pointed at the Eulora logs.
17:43 diana_coman BingoBoingo: thanks; so far there was simply no decision to bring the website back up; will let you know if anything changes on this.
17:43 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Ok, thank you.
~ 17 minutes ~
18:00 whaack diana_coman: wow, i learned i have an account on the wiki page from a while back
~ 43 minutes ~
18:44 whaack diana_coman: should I have to be root to run "autoreconf --install --force" ?
~ 19 minutes ~
19:03 diana_coman whaack: no, should not require root; why?
19:04 whaack diana_coman: I got the error "Can't exec "aclocal": Permission denied at /usr/share/autoconf/Autom4te/FileUtils.pm line 326.
19:04 diana_coman I guess you'd end up needing that only if you are trying to install it somewhere where you don't have permissions
19:04 diana_coman uhm
19:07 diana_coman it's the first time I see/hear of such a thing; do you have some incompatible versions of autotools?
19:07 diana_coman that's usually where the weird stems from on autoreconf and the like.
19:08 whaack diana_coman: I had to run `yum install autoconf`
19:08 whaack diana_coman: i admit i skipped the step and kept going without trouble.
19:08 diana_coman cal3d is quite undemanding, yes
19:13 diana_coman dorion: is this silence-since-Sunday the busy-silence or the stuck-silence?
19:19 whaack diana_coman: now at the "./autogen.sh" step I get "configure:3522: error: possibly undefined macro: _AC_CC
19:23 whaack "If this token and others are legitimate, please use m4_pattern_allow. See the autoconf documentation. Autogen failed"
19:23 diana_coman whaack: uhm, I didn't run into that either; it really sounds like you are missing something/have mismatched versions
19:23 diana_coman whaack: did you install libtool ?
19:24 whaack diana_coman: no I don't think so.
19:27 jfw whaack: does 'aclocal' work manually from shell? might need to be installed separately.
19:27 whaack jfw: I don't have the aclocal command
19:28 jfw the 'autotools' come in a couple related but not always used packages: autoconf, automake, libtool mainly. Looks like aclocal is part of automake.
19:30 whaack I got aclocal from doing yum install libtool. but I still get the same error.
19:30 jfw whaack: which same error, did you circle back to the autoreconf ?
19:31 whaack jfw: no i had not, and i just did now, and that fixed the original autoreconf problem, i'll continue and redo the other steps.
19:31 * jfw imports those vt100 / vt102 user guides to the fixpoint library, as the Paul Williams fella already broke his site by forcing https
19:39 whaack diana_coman: I got a few errors on the `jam -aq libs plugins cs-config walktest` step. Here is the [paste.deedbot.org/?id=2aRJ] and [paste.deedbot.org/?id=S9ec][here] is the missing optional dependencies from cs.
19:43 diana_coman whaack: cal3d lists as "optional" pretty much everything because the original author was so afraid to decide on anything at all that he ended up with this situation where rendering stuff (and similar) is somehow optional for a graphics engine, among other lulz.
19:44 whaack kek
19:44 diana_coman at any rate, the walktest thing has to work if you are to have any use for cs really because that's the basic test of graphics pretty much
19:45 whaack i recall the wonderful feeling of walking around that dungeon the first time i installed eulora
19:46 diana_coman whaack: zlib is a must iirc; and you'll probably need zlib-devel package
19:46 jfw whaack: don't you think you might want to get x11 working first before getting to things a couple layes of deps above that?
19:47 whaack jfw: I do have x11 working
19:47 diana_coman and uhm, x11 missing?
19:47 diana_coman lolz
19:47 whaack idk why it says i don't
19:47 diana_coman whaack: something is missing, so it's not finding it
19:47 jfw ah ok, then probably just missing the -devel packages (headers mainly).
19:47 diana_coman probably like for zlib above, you don't have the devel packages
19:47 diana_coman heh, as jfw says
19:48 whaack so do i just do a yum install and slap -devel onto all those missing things?
19:48 jfw redhat does this thing where "we'll save you 10kb of header files because why would you want to compile anything rather than eat binaries?"
19:48 whaack (just did that for zlib)
19:48 diana_coman whaack: didn't you look at the list of deps for fedora and other systems? because the package names might be different but the deps are still deps
19:49 whaack diana_coman: No, is there a list of deps for eulora posted somewhere or should i search online for a list of deps for cs?
19:50 diana_coman whaack: no, those on the wiki#
19:50 diana_coman and don't waste time searching online re deps for cs, lolz, that's really not going to do anything other than waste time.
19:57 whaack diana_coman: The wiki doesn't have an explicit list of deps
19:58 whaack diana_coman: I tried to find an equiv for every package that didn't have the same name as the one in fedora's repo
19:59 diana_coman I guess I'll have to write-up my notes at some point then.
20:00 whaack jam I had to search for in the wild, and my machine has been hard at work since i got zlib-devel
~ 32 minutes ~
20:32 diana_coman whaack: since my list of to-write is long and only getting longer and otherwise on centos I just ported the darned client to gnat anyway, here's a raw paste of notes with packages for corresponding CS stuff, from when I was simply mapping what fits what (ie see what is really needed, perhaps not all of them are): http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KogY
20:33 diana_coman whaack: looking at it now, I can even tell that bullet is not needed and otherwise it even tends to create trouble so leave it out
20:34 whaack diana_coman: thx
20:34 whaack currently stuck with Cg. I installed from nvidia but thought about using the rpmfusion repo
20:34 diana_coman see possibly the note that it needs the libgl-devel thing too
20:35 diana_coman if you look in the configure script, you'll see exactly what/how it checks anyway; it's a long thing but relatively straightforwardly written, as those things go.
20:39 whaack diana_coman: I installed cg, I am pretty sure, but all i can find is an executable /usr/bin/cgc -- i need to look for a folder though, correct?
20:39 whaack (to put as the destination of the ./configure --with-Cg="" --with-CgGL="")
20:40 diana_coman whaack: so it's missing the headers; the -devel package etc
20:40 * diana_coman will bbl
~ 26 minutes ~
21:07 jfw whaack: assuming you still have it installed from nvidia rather than rpmfusion you probably do have all the headers and just don't know where to look, and the configure argument wouldn't be necessary
21:08 jfw (I haven't used Cg though so just guessing.)
21:10 whaack jfw: I solved? worked around? the problem by downloading the tarball from nvidia, extracting it to /opt/nvidia-cg-toolkit, and setting the config arguments accordingly
21:13 jfw cool, sounds like a solution to me as I don't see any benefit in adding a new intermediary just to install what's surely a pile of blobs anyway
21:13 jfw given that it's apparently self-contained in a subdir like that
~ 28 minutes ~
21:42 diana_coman whaack: sounds like a solution, well done!
~ 19 minutes ~
22:01 whaack thanks, i got the walk test running!
22:03 whaack one thing that tripped me up was while installing i started my x11 as root, and was su'd into my non-root user
22:04 whaack i was not able to start x11 (and thus the walktest) from the terminal running as the non-root user
22:05 jfw whaack: "not able" how?
22:07 whaack (also, back to the same bug with ./autogen.sh "configure:3522: error: possibly undefined macro: _AC_CC)
22:10 whaack jfw: I logged into a tty as root. Then I ran startx. Then, while in the graphical environment, i opened up a terminal. I ran su whaack (my nonroot user) and then ran the walktest. It gave me an error akin to 'X11 failed to start'
22:10 whaack I fixed this by running startx as 'whaack'
22:11 jfw uh, I thought you specifically said you couldn't start X as non-root user
22:13 jfw and yeah, it's not the greatest practice to start an X session as root, gives all the GUI stuff more privilege than it ought to have
22:14 jfw the X server process does need to be root but that's distinct from the clients and should be handled by startx and the setuid bit
22:14 whaack jfw: right, that was not clear. I was not able to start x11 while su'd into a non-root user in a terminal that was started in an x environment that i started as root. (quite a mouthful, and i'm sorry if I am using some of the x11 terms incorrectly)
22:15 jfw so you wanted to start an x11 inside the x11? lol
22:16 jfw technically what you were trying might be possible by setting the DISPLAY variable to match it was in the root shell. That doesn't mean starting a new X server, but telling the clients how to connect to the existing one. But yeah, best to start as whaack to begin with.
22:16 jfw **match what it was
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