| 02:45 |
shrysr |
diana_coman: I've written about my baseline....and more. Encrypted : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4MSIJ/?raw=true |
| 02:48 |
shrysr |
BingoBoingo, diana_coman thank you for the explanations above. I think i follow... much better than before atleast. |
| 02:53 |
shrysr |
diana_coman: since the content was rather long - i used markdown - so it shd be easier to read on your browser rather than text editor, if you prefer. |
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~ 6 hours 17 minutes ~ |
| 09:11 |
diana_coman |
shrysr: got it, will read later. |
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~ 2 hours 42 minutes ~ |
| 11:54 |
shrysr |
diana_coman: okay i look fwd to it... i.e fixing my direction and removing the shit inside. |
| 11:59 |
shrysr |
ossasepia.com/2017/02/18/the-open-sores-of-monkey-code/ >> what i don't understand is - are there not 'guidelines' to writing code and making contributions, and checks without which said contributions cannot be accepted - something related to "CI/CD" ? even without this CI/CD - isn't the maintainer of the code supposed to not allow this to happen? I understand the maintaine has no actual obligation and it |
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| 11:59 |
shrysr |
is typically voluntary, and they change over the years and so on - but how is it that the mess continues to pile on and on ? |
| 12:04 |
shrysr |
diana_coman: side note: i think the site is now https free ... i deleted the certificate before having the sense to revoke it - but it was not set to auto renew anyway. atleast : https://s.ragavan.co no longer works.. writing notez on what was done. |
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~ 21 minutes ~ |
| 12:25 |
shrysr |
Re: CI/CD i guess it also begs the question whether CI/CD is also like docker, i.e unnecessary / ineffective / some form of scam? |
| 12:29 |
shrysr |
for eg planeshift being a game does not link with http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-17#1000320 ? |
| 12:29 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2019-08-17 21:47:47 asciilifeform: shrysr: like every effective scam, this orchestra consists of very small number of conscious, cynical perpetrators, and a much larger circle of unthinking (and sometimes 'forced', 'salt mine gave orders... i only follow orders') chumps |
| 12:30 |
shrysr |
well non-commercial rather than just 'being a game' |
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~ 59 minutes ~ |
| 13:30 |
shrysr |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-01#1000900 << I guess http://ossasepia.com/2017/06/12/o-brave-new-code/ answers a lot of the why, but even if the intention was to 'lower' barriers - is there no way to 'sensibly' 'ease' the barriers of entry while ensuring that quality does not suffer at all and fundamental principles are adhered to? How could such a framework Not be a priority before |
| 13:30 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2019-09-01 11:59:01 shrysr: ossasepia.com/2017/02/18/the-open-sores-of-monkey-code/ >> what i don't understand is - are there not 'guidelines' to writing code and making contributions, and checks without which said contributions cannot be accepted - something related to "CI/CD" ? even without this CI/CD - isn't the maintainer of the code supposed to not allow this to happen? I understand the maintaine has no actual obligation and it |
| 13:30 |
shrysr |
lowering the barriers and inviting shit ? |
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~ 29 minutes ~ |
| 13:59 |
diana_coman |
shrysr: in short what is perceived as "barriers" is precisely the dam keeping shit at bay; laziness and cluelesness will always shout (and usually loudest of all, too, since plenty of voice and time) that "barriers" |
| 14:00 |
diana_coman |
in a charitable interpretation, you can say that it's precisely the wrong sort of barriers that got lowered, basically for being *easy* to lower rather than correct to lower |
| 14:02 |
diana_coman |
but the problem is deeper because this lowering of wrong barriers is itself an effect of how the incentives are aligned, it's not just a cause of further shittiness down the road. |
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| 14:06 |
diana_coman |
http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-01#1000903 - strictly speaking this can't be answered generically like this since there's big variation re what "CI/CD" actually is; i.e. to the extent that CI/CD means "someone I trust for this will sign your code", it's perfectly working and fine, sure |
| 14:06 |
ossabot |
Logged on 2019-09-01 12:41:24 shrysr: Re: CI/CD i guess it also begs the question whether CI/CD is also like docker, i.e unnecessary / ineffective / some form of scam? |
| 14:14 |
diana_coman |
shrysr: for some concrete examples re quality of code, here: http://ossasepia.com/2018/08/04/a-collection-of-pearls-as-well-as-ever-sadder-epitaphs/ |
| 14:25 |
shrysr |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-01#1000912 << incentives as in? like adding to the graph of number of contributions on github which appears to be commonly treated as a measure of capability without any further considerations? |
| 14:25 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2019-09-01 14:02:16 diana_coman: but the problem is deeper because this lowering of wrong barriers is itself an effect of how the incentives are aligned, it's not just a cause of further shittiness down the road. |
| 14:35 |
diana_coman |
shrysr: that is one example, yes; the core is that 1. nobody actually owns the code in any meaningful way 2. lines of code added (later on anything added, hence "contributions", yes) are treated as gains instead of liabilities |
| 14:37 |
diana_coman |
there is a lot of wrong measurements for sure (lines of code, number of contributions, number of projects, whatever) but by the time such "measurements" are requested, things are already rotten |
| 14:38 |
diana_coman |
no matter how you look at the whole model, there's plenty wrong with it. |
| 14:40 |
diana_coman |
and tbh I'm not so sure re what might possibly be fine with it - possibly the only thing would be that at least the "code" is there, that's about it but it's so swamped by all the rest that it doesn't do much at all. |
| 14:49 |
shrysr |
yes -- i guess that thought was driving my quetion... i could not see how the practice appears acceptable from any sensible view point. This being said - i can see an uncomfortable number of parallels in terms of what i've been fighting at each salt-mine in varying degrees...for eg i've dealt with 'senior design engineers' - whose daily work is to create technical drawings (CAD) over Years and who cd not |
| 14:49 |
shrysr |
tell even fundamental non-technical differences between products! I've been disgusted by it and have never been able to understand how such things are allowed to thrive.. it's not terribly more difficult to do things right is it ?! |
| 15:01 |
shrysr |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-17#1000312 << as I read more - i'm able to understand the anger.. and a better sense of third eye. I thought I did not feel an anger - but perhaps this is not true. |
| 15:01 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2019-08-17 16:06:18 BingoBoingo: shrysr: That's an honorable path many people who become good at computers take. It's also one that tends to fuel a lot of anger towards the software industry, because as you come to know what a useful computer should be doing for you, the tower of shit will be built to make the doing as uncomfortable as possible, should the doing be possible in the first place. |
| 15:01 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2019-08-17 14:58:29 asciilifeform: typically there is a stage, in cure, where patient 'opens third eye' and notices that entire collective output of 'software industry' from last 30y is rubbish, from win3.1 to 'docker' to etc. but not yet happened in this one, near as i can see. |
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~ 1 hours 47 minutes ~ |
| 16:48 |
diana_coman |
!o uptime |
| 16:48 |
ossabot |
diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 2d 3h 22m |
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~ 1 hours 27 minutes ~ |
| 18:15 |
diana_coman |
!o uptime |
| 18:15 |
ossabot |
diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 2m |