| 00:00 |
decimation |
I just can't imagine a future in which I will need to learn 'go' for work or pleasure |
| 00:00 |
mircea_popescu |
kinda my position too |
| 00:07 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50422 @ 0.00047596 = 23.9989 BTC [+] |
| 00:07 |
decimation |
is this the paper in question? cryptome.org/2013/09/klepto-crypto.pdf |
| 00:14 |
decimation |
ah I see that link only has a few pages of the book |
| 00:15 |
mircea_popescu |
"Brothel for Slaking Intellectual Lusts" anyone here actually played planescape : torment ? |
| 00:22 |
mircea_popescu |
!up NomosOne |
| 00:25 |
decimation |
apparently usg has decided to greatly limit (not completely stop) civil forfeiture at the federal level |
| 00:25 |
decimation |
outgoing attorney general Holder wants to 'make a legacy' |
| 00:25 |
mircea_popescu |
no ?! |
| 00:25 |
decimation |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/holder-ends-seized-asset-sharing-process-that-split-billions-with-local-state-police/2015/01/16/0e7ca058-99d4-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html |
| 00:25 |
assbot |
Holder limits seized-asset sharing process that split billions with local, state police - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1ynDEMM ) |
| 00:26 |
mircea_popescu |
seems more like a landgrab than anything ? |
| 00:26 |
decimation |
how so? |
| 00:27 |
decimation |
well, it certainly curtails one form of civil forfeiture at the federal level, leaving a vacuum that can be filled at the state level, if the states so desire |
| 00:29 |
mircea_popescu |
ah you're right. originally i read it as "we'll just keep more of it". |
| 00:29 |
mircea_popescu |
btw decimation assbot now allows wotization, pm it !up |
| 00:31 |
asciilifeform |
the 'vacuum' will be filled by theft and robbery from the same place as before. |
| 00:31 |
asciilifeform |
because how else. |
| 00:31 |
mircea_popescu |
in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/e9757a9deb4f50a25d868f26f4c3ab1d/tumblr_mvec3nySMa1s6dk4zo1_500.jpg was a great car. |
| 00:31 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1ynEw3W ) |
| 00:36 |
ben_vulpes |
did i crash assbot? |
| 00:37 |
mircea_popescu |
dun think so |
| 00:37 |
ben_vulpes |
nope. perhaps the otp machine? |
| 00:38 |
ben_vulpes |
what are the semantics for working with asswot? |
| 00:39 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/14/this-powerful-reddit-thread-reveals-how-the-poor-get-by-in-america << we've arrived at the end of the line. u.s. newspapers print articles concerning reddit threads. |
| 00:39 |
assbot |
This powerful Reddit thread reveals how the poor get by in America - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1ynFBc4 ) |
| 00:40 |
ben_vulpes |
;;later tell manamex you're joining channels and then applying your cloak. FYI. |
| 00:40 |
gribble |
The operation succeeded. |
| 00:40 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00047268 = 9.2645 BTC [-] |
| 00:42 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47100 @ 0.00047621 = 22.4295 BTC [+] {2} |
| 00:43 |
mircea_popescu |
ben_vulpes like in chan ? pm it !up it responds with otp, pm it !v otp |
| 00:44 |
kakobrekla |
!rate ben_vulpes test |
| 00:44 |
assbot |
Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10. |
| 00:44 |
kakobrekla |
!rate ben_vulpes 1 test |
| 00:44 |
assbot |
Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/7e95d1cb8e7c1075 |
| 00:44 |
kakobrekla |
what do you mean it doesnt work ben_vulpes ? |
| 00:44 |
ben_vulpes |
that link refuses to resolve for me |
| 00:45 |
mircea_popescu |
yeah, scam error report. |
| 00:45 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71107 @ 0.00047967 = 34.1079 BTC [+] {3} |
| 00:46 |
kakobrekla |
;;isup http://w.b-a.link/otp/5d95a96032e89e9e |
| 00:46 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1ynGCB0 ) |
| 00:46 |
gribble |
http://w.b-a.link/otp/5d95a96032e89e9e is up |
| 00:48 |
ben_vulpes |
https://www.refheap.com/96220 |
| 00:48 |
assbot |
anonymous's paste: 96220 ... ( http://bit.ly/1ynGPEa ) |
| 00:49 |
mircea_popescu |
PING 185.34.216.71 (185.34.216.71) 56(84) bytes of data. |
| 00:49 |
mircea_popescu |
64 bytes from 185.34.216.71: icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=252 ms |
| 00:49 |
mircea_popescu |
64 bytes from 185.34.216.71: icmp_seq=2 ttl=49 time=248 ms |
| 00:49 |
mircea_popescu |
l'etrange. |
| 00:50 |
kakobrekla |
yes my shit banned your shit. |
| 00:50 |
mircea_popescu |
ban shee! |
| 00:51 |
ben_vulpes |
mk |
| 00:53 |
ben_vulpes |
lmk if that changes, yeah? |
| 00:54 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform washington post = newspaper in the sense projects = neighbourhoods. |
| 00:54 |
mircea_popescu |
the hoods part, okay. |
| 00:55 |
asciilifeform |
then what newspaper remains in usa ? |
| 00:55 |
mircea_popescu |
hum. |
| 00:55 |
mircea_popescu |
i guess kinda blighted. |
| 00:55 |
asciilifeform |
wash. post is 'the other' nyt. |
| 00:55 |
ben_vulpes |
"newspaper" in the trad'l sense of "town rag" still exists in various municipalities. "grey lady", not so much. |
| 00:55 |
mircea_popescu |
more like the other Forward. |
| 00:55 |
asciilifeform |
these two fishwraps are almost always sold in bins together. |
| 00:56 |
kakobrekla |
try now ben_vulpes |
| 00:56 |
ben_vulpes |
ty kakobrekla |
| 00:56 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu may be thinking of 'washington times |
| 00:56 |
asciilifeform |
' |
| 00:56 |
mircea_popescu |
i never heard of that one. |
| 00:57 |
ben_vulpes |
!rate kakobrekla 3 wot steward |
| 00:57 |
assbot |
Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/190b6cfc995f06a2 |
| 00:57 |
asciilifeform |
at any rate, the article is intensely lulzy |
| 00:57 |
ben_vulpes |
!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.kakobrekla.3:71dbfce4f8bb960b54b95894d306db892a6f30da3fc5776c31b3ef6f2f45b0c4 |
| 00:57 |
assbot |
Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to 3 with note: wot steward |
| 00:57 |
kakobrekla |
works, cool |
| 00:57 |
ben_vulpes |
neat |
| 00:59 |
decimation |
alright works |
| 00:59 |
kakobrekla |
yeah im surprised myself |
| 00:59 |
mircea_popescu |
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/wikipedia-kills-page-linking-obama-slogan-to-socialist-movement/ < < lawl. |
| 00:59 |
assbot |
Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1ynInhH ) |
| 00:59 |
mircea_popescu |
apparently wikipedia deleted a page discussing the "forward" as a generic name for socialist publications after someone mocked obama for it. |
| 00:59 |
decimation |
asciilifeform: lol so apparently reddit is where bums hang out? |
| 01:01 |
mircea_popescu |
been saying that for a while!11 |
| 01:01 |
decimation |
the other amusing point that the article fails to bring up: if the 'poor' must pay to live in a dense shitty city, why not move to the country? |
| 01:02 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: presumably, moving costs something |
| 01:02 |
mircea_popescu |
the poor flock to the city since the times of rabelais for the same reason : you can eat without working there. |
| 01:02 |
mircea_popescu |
not so in the country |
| 01:02 |
decimation |
if living off gov't checks anyway, wouldn't a trailer park somewhere stretch the bezzlars? |
| 01:02 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: another interesting fact re: usa is that rental properties are scarce to nonexistent when you walk out of the high-density areas |
| 01:04 |
mircea_popescu |
hmm, no testament in english ? |
| 01:04 |
decimation |
but the basic bitch here reminds me of something like 'heavier things are heavier' |
| 01:04 |
decimation |
of course someone with a spare $bil to invest in a sony movie (for example) will make $0.5 bil profit |
| 01:04 |
asciilifeform |
testament ? |
| 01:05 |
decimation |
having fifty bux means your investment options are limited to your own stomach |
| 01:06 |
asciilifeform |
5k - also stomach |
| 01:06 |
asciilifeform |
and arguably likewise 50k. |
| 01:06 |
decimation |
yeah pretty much |
| 01:06 |
mircea_popescu |
you know you can buy stocks online these days on about 1k i think ? |
| 01:06 |
asciilifeform |
lol stocks |
| 01:06 |
decimation |
what are you gonna do? buy shares of wal-mart and hope they go up 100x? |
| 01:07 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31129 @ 0.00047521 = 14.7928 BTC [-] |
| 01:07 |
asciilifeform |
the cheapo stock houses make a killing by charging xx usd / trade |
| 01:07 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform testament ? << http://damienbe.chez.com/testamen.htm |
| 01:07 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1ynJtK5 ) |
| 01:07 |
ben_vulpes |
i'll settle for 8%/year |
| 01:07 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation why 100x ? you proposed a 1bn - >1.5 bn deal. |
| 01:07 |
asciilifeform |
aha -that- testament |
| 01:07 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform students (aka bums) in paris. right ? |
| 01:07 |
mircea_popescu |
why paris ? |
| 01:08 |
decimation |
even in that case, it's gonna take awhile before walmart stock goes from $1k to 1.5k |
| 01:08 |
mircea_popescu |
En l'an de mon trentiesme age, que toutes mes hontes j'euz beues, ne du tout fol, ne du tout saige non obstant maintes peines eues, lesquelles j'ay toutes receues soubz la main Thibault d'Aucigny ... |
| 01:08 |
mircea_popescu |
S'esvesque il est, signant les rues, qu'il soit le mien je le regny. |
| 01:08 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation films are some of the most risky investments out there you know. |
| 01:09 |
decimation |
yeah I'm using it as a somewhat poor example. my main point is that having $x mil to 'invest' allows one to bend over and pick up stuff that bums have no access to |
| 01:09 |
mircea_popescu |
i dispute this theory. |
| 01:09 |
mircea_popescu |
there is no significant advantage to size, and a serious problem to it. |
| 01:10 |
mircea_popescu |
buffett oft dwells on the matter : it's easy for krill to find a good meal, on account of being small. not so easy for whale. |
| 01:10 |
asciilifeform |
villon << http://flibusta.net/b/374344/download |
| 01:10 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1ynJTjT ) |
| 01:10 |
asciilifeform |
^ ru translation |
| 01:11 |
decimation |
I suppose the principle at work here is that once one has $x, one finds no portion of x to be 'spare' |
| 01:11 |
mircea_popescu |
there's a decent english one by de verre |
| 01:11 |
mircea_popescu |
not sure if on the nets or not |
| 01:11 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation in any case spare works better at smaller size. |
| 01:11 |
asciilifeform |
rhyming translation ? |
| 01:12 |
asciilifeform |
(the linked one is also beautifully illustrated, as it happens) |
| 01:12 |
mircea_popescu |
essentially the principle being that you may find excellent "best actresses/cocksuckers", but not really "2nd best actresses/cocksuckers" in proportion. |
| 01:14 |
mircea_popescu |
<asciilifeform> the cheapo stock houses make a killing by charging xx usd / trade << iirc it's about a dime/a quarter per lot, which lot is usually 1k shares, which can easily be 100k usd. |
| 01:14 |
mircea_popescu |
yes, much more than say the specialst pays (specialist doesn't pay). this is inconsequential. |
| 01:14 |
ben_vulpes |
https://www.robinhood.com/ << if you want to be front-run |
| 01:14 |
assbot |
Robinhood - Zero-Commission Stock Brokerage ... ( http://bit.ly/1ynKv8W ) |
| 01:15 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: the street where i live, just a year or so ago, was covered in ads '$7 / trade111!' |
| 01:15 |
decimation |
well, it would be a big deal if you day trade all day |
| 01:15 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: but i'm willing to believe that there are newer, more appealing chumpatrons |
| 01:15 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation a horrible deal. imagine all the noise you'd be pouring into the market. |
| 01:15 |
asciilifeform |
and they all front-run. |
| 01:15 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform there are at least a dozen honest online brokerages. |
| 01:15 |
mircea_popescu |
to those, no doubt five million internet scams. |
| 01:15 |
mircea_popescu |
retail is SUPPOSED to be front run for crying out loud. |
| 01:16 |
decimation |
asciilifeform: sure, but you are generally talking about pennies per share |
| 01:16 |
asciilifeform |
at any rate, why would someone with no informational-asymmetric advantage want to buy stocks ? |
| 01:16 |
mircea_popescu |
to invest. |
| 01:16 |
decimation |
because that's where the trade bots put their earnings |
| 01:16 |
mircea_popescu |
to acquire a portion of the productively outlayed capital i nthe country. |
| 01:17 |
ben_vulpes |
<decimation> [] outgoing attorney general Holder wants to 'make a legacy' << just look for the "apparent pedophilia rate" as evidenced by "he had kiddie pr0nz" to go up. |
| 01:17 |
asciilifeform |
^ |
| 01:17 |
decimation |
yeah that will be interesting |
| 01:17 |
decimation |
suddenly everyone will be serious drug runner/terrorist/pedo |
| 01:17 |
asciilifeform |
or a sudden plague of 'illegal gun' |
| 01:17 |
asciilifeform |
(another exception in the new law) |
| 01:18 |
ben_vulpes |
everyone's trivially framed. |
| 01:18 |
mircea_popescu |
i read it thatthey may only confiscate the guns |
| 01:18 |
mircea_popescu |
but not the cars/cash. |
| 01:20 |
decimation |
in some states (illinois) you must register all your guns with the state |
| 01:23 |
ben_vulpes |
https://vine.co/v/OZOnMZ2xpZZ << stability manifolds |
| 01:23 |
assbot |
Watch Reid Wiseman's Vine "Even a 50kg mass does the same flipping maneuver. “Wild” to me! #science #SpaceVine" ... ( http://bit.ly/1Civp1R ) |
| 01:24 |
decimation |
amusing poettering interview http://www.linuxvoice.com/interview-lennart-poettering/ |
| 01:24 |
assbot |
Interview: Lennart Poettering | Linux Voice ... ( http://bit.ly/1CivD9e ) |
| 01:26 |
decimation |
it's pretty obvious that the guy is a control freak who gets off on forcing his way |
| 01:26 |
decimation |
"So we started writing Systemd, and Red Hat didn’t like it at all. Red Hat management said: no, we’re going for Upstart, don’t work on that. So I said, OK, I’ll work on it in my free time. Eventually Red Hat realised that the problems we solved with Systemd were relevant, and were problems that needed to be solved, and that you couldn’t ignore them." |
| 01:27 |
undata |
decimation: I wasn't aware of that particular detail |
| 01:28 |
undata |
tragic; upstart is a much simpler alternative |
| 01:28 |
decimation |
"So anyway, long story short, we came to the conclusion that Upstart is conceptually wrong, and it moved at glacial speeds. It also had the problem that Canonical tried very hard to stay in control of it. They made sure, with copyright assignment, that they made it really hard to contribute, but that’s what Linux actually lives off. You get these drive-by patches, as I would call them, where people see that something is broken, or |
| 01:28 |
decimation |
something could be improved. They do a Git checkout, do one change, send you it and forget about it." |
| 01:28 |
decimation |
he tries to make a halfass technical argument against Upstart, and then whines that it's hard to make commits |
| 01:30 |
decimation |
later on he describes people who like systemd as "progressive" and those who reject it as 'conservative' |
| 01:31 |
undata |
well that lays bare the abstractions rolling around in that gourd, doesn't it |
| |
~ 24 minutes ~ |
| 01:55 |
mircea_popescu |
"Few pieces of software in history have been so fiercely debated as Systemd. " |
| 01:55 |
mircea_popescu |
really ? because why, because the author is 5 yo ? |
| 01:56 |
mircea_popescu |
how about you know, emacs wars ? |
| 01:57 |
asciilifeform |
'In April was the jackal born, In June the rain-fed rivers swelled: 'Never in all my life,' said he, 'Have I so great a flood beheld.'' (orwell) |
| 01:57 |
mircea_popescu |
". Its growing all the time and now handles logging, device hotplugging events, networking, scheduled actions (like Cron) and much more. Almost every major Linux distribution has adopted Systemd, but there are still some unhappy campers out there," |
| 01:58 |
mircea_popescu |
uhm. happy campers = the entire foss community ? |
| 01:58 |
mircea_popescu |
the lulz is so thick, considering the playbook is identically replayed with the gavincoin |
| 01:59 |
mircea_popescu |
course, the prospect is a lot grim-er for linux, but hey. |
| 01:59 |
mircea_popescu |
"in the most superficial level, some used -h for help, and others help. Its not uniform." << i can't name a tool that doesn't actually honor both. |
| 02:00 |
mircea_popescu |
but a fuckwit 20something discussing how "people have not played with unix at all" is, indeed, amusing. |
| 02:00 |
mircea_popescu |
"LV: And you never see them again! |
| 02:00 |
mircea_popescu |
LP: Yeah, and this is great these are the people you want to have, because the vast majority of patches are actually of that kind. " |
| 02:00 |
mircea_popescu |
"because they have no political power - and that's what you want, a lot of lemmings" |
| 02:01 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, im not reding this idiocy. |
| 02:01 |
asciilifeform |
i read it. it was a total snore. |
| 02:02 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway. there's nothing wrong with the people who didn't belong in foss in the first place finding their own way out, just like there's nothing wrong with the people who have no business in bitcoin finding their own way out. |
| 02:03 |
mircea_popescu |
kinda why "adoption" is meaningless. i don't care for anyone to "adopt" anything i do. i might care if they change to fit to it. but otherwise, good fucking luck, there's no value in having a bunch of pacific islanders speak english as if it were the retarded language they spoke before. |
| 02:03 |
mircea_popescu |
let them stick to what they know and be happy. |
| 02:04 |
mircea_popescu |
giving inept infantrymen good horses doesn't create an elite cavalry regiment, it just creates a lot of injured horses. giving stupid people smart things doesn't make them smart. it'll just make a lot of broken smart things. |
| 02:05 |
asciilifeform |
!b 4 |
| 02:05 |
assbot |
Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0WFB7MQ.txt ) |
| 02:05 |
mircea_popescu |
both are a horrible waste of beasts. |
| 02:05 |
decimation |
;;ud pidgin |
| 02:05 |
gribble |
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pidgin | the slang spoken by the locals in hawaii. people there do not speak hawaiian, they speak pidgin. to all my mainlander "friends": stop asking me fuckin stupid ... |
| 02:06 |
mircea_popescu |
in any case, the entire lennart gambit is that "actually smart people won't be able to find each other in our sea of lemmings" |
| 02:07 |
mircea_popescu |
kinda why stuff like the wot-foss i was discussing and even gossipd are so important |
| 02:08 |
decimation |
well, apparently he confirmed that redhat was itself a ship of lemmings, looking for a lemming-king, and lennart was their man |
| 02:08 |
mircea_popescu |
but also why a certain attitude to ineptitude, from the "affirmative action", "wopmen in tech" "don't say nigger" all the way to stupidities like the equalitarism in freenode's policies is so very important. and why linus' "fuck you" is such a major thing. |
| 02:08 |
mircea_popescu |
it's not gratuitous, all this. it provides a very valuable signal, both to the inferior and to the superior. |
| 02:09 |
mircea_popescu |
every time you see someone being stupid, piss on his face. this is important for them, and it's important for me. |
| 02:09 |
mircea_popescu |
tolerance is not the answer to any question worth asking, and it does not serve any purpose other than the general drowning in shit. which is not a desirable outcome in any case. |
| 02:10 |
mircea_popescu |
better off if half the "community" gets upset and moves on to collecting bugs or digging trenches or whatever, than if programming becomes a sort of passtime for trench diggers and worm afficionados. |
| 02:11 |
mircea_popescu |
/endrant |
| 02:12 |
mircea_popescu |
actually no, let's also add an illustration. http://38.media.tumblr.com/055cd45805272e544f0e27e390f1ee7b/tumblr_muf8b3qyLb1sa3bwyo1_r1_500.gif |
| 02:12 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1y88BCM ) |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
| 02:29 |
mircea_popescu |
in other news, http://www.dcnews.ro/apreciere-franc-elve-ian-razboi-ana-birchall-andreea-paul_464977.html << the swiss franc situation is a disaster for 100s of k's of idiot romanians who refinanced their home mortgages in swiss francs to try and capture a half of a percent less interest. |
| 02:29 |
assbot |
APRECIERE FRANC ELVEȚIAN: Război cu stenograme Ana Birchall - Andreea Paul | DC News | De ce se intampla ... ( http://bit.ly/1IT3Xu0 ) |
| 02:29 |
mircea_popescu |
that just turned into 20-30% more principal. |
| 02:37 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00047521 = 7.9598 BTC [-] |
| 02:41 |
ben_vulpes |
ouch. |
| 02:41 |
mircea_popescu |
populists in parliament having a field day over it. |
| 02:41 |
mircea_popescu |
arrears set to go up from 15% to 25%ish |
| 02:42 |
mircea_popescu |
(romania, unlike the us, actually keeps track of unserviced retail debentures) |
| 02:44 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, thassall for me. have fun b-a! |
| |
~ 38 minutes ~ |
| 03:22 |
ben_vulpes |
does anyone know when the transaction index was added? |
| 03:26 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29000 @ 0.00047473 = 13.7672 BTC [-] {2} |
| 03:32 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14586 @ 0.00047934 = 6.9917 BTC [+] {2} |
| 03:33 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22014 @ 0.00048133 = 10.596 BTC [+] |
| 03:39 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3084 @ 0.00066737 = 2.0582 BTC [-] {10} |
| |
~ 1 hours 34 minutes ~ |
| 05:14 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48186 @ 0.00048133 = 23.1934 BTC [+] |
| 05:27 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19794 @ 0.00048133 = 9.5274 BTC [+] |
| |
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~ |
| 06:36 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67250 @ 0.00048747 = 32.7824 BTC [+] {3} |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
| 07:01 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83100 @ 0.00048144 = 40.0077 BTC [-] {2} |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
| 07:18 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65200 @ 0.00048075 = 31.3449 BTC [-] {2} |
| |
~ 39 minutes ~ |
| 07:57 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55503 @ 0.00049 = 27.1965 BTC [+] |
| |
~ 38 minutes ~ |
| 08:36 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.125 = 1.25 BTC [-] {2} |
| 08:37 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22350 @ 0.00048826 = 10.9126 BTC [-] |
| 08:48 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00049 = 6.223 BTC [+] |
| 08:59 |
mats |
http://www.capital.gr/News.asp?id=2203494 |
| 08:59 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1B20JCx ) |
| 09:01 |
mats |
greek bank run, excluded from QE |
| 09:03 |
mats |
http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/16/investing/swiss-currency-fxcm one of several |
| 09:03 |
assbot |
Swiss shock crushes US currency broker - Jan. 16, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1B21bAW ) |
| 09:18 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36400 @ 0.00049025 = 17.8451 BTC [+] {2} |
| 09:19 |
kakobrekla |
mats http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-01-2015#978599 |
| 09:19 |
assbot |
Logged on 15-01-2015 21:14:09; kakobrekla: ^^ re chf, a few folks committed suicide today cause of it. |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 09:39 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31676 @ 0.00049095 = 15.5513 BTC [+] |
| 09:46 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16198 @ 0.00048816 = 7.9072 BTC [-] {2} |
| 09:47 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33465 @ 0.00048797 = 16.3299 BTC [-] |
| 10:00 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7071 @ 0.00049327 = 3.4879 BTC [+] {2} |
| 10:01 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29879 @ 0.00049538 = 14.8015 BTC [+] |
| 10:04 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66400 @ 0.00048603 = 32.2724 BTC [-] {2} |
| |
~ 37 minutes ~ |
| 10:42 |
decimation |
an amusing blog post http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/12/did-edward-snowden-call-for-abolishing-the-intelligence-community/ |
| 10:42 |
assbot |
Lawfare › Did Edward Snowden Call for Abolishing the Intelligence Community? ... ( http://bit.ly/1DNDqjF ) |
| 10:45 |
decimation |
there's a deep hypocrisy here somewhere. apparently the usg entities who are involved with foreign surveillance couldn't possibly do their jobs if they were subject to 'regulation', but of course regular people trying to say, transact bitcoin, have no such reprieve |
| 10:48 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.0004847 = 4.6531 BTC [-] |
| 11:01 |
mircea_popescu |
good morning asseteers! |
| 11:01 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48550 @ 0.00049745 = 24.1512 BTC [+] {2} |
| 11:08 |
davout |
guten tag |
| 11:10 |
davout |
so, re yesterday's convo about go and c it occurs to me that b-a will eventually have to have a reviewed & signed code repo |
| 11:11 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14293 @ 0.00048366 = 6.913 BTC [-] {2} |
| 11:11 |
mircea_popescu |
this occurs to you through having read the logs re the new github model / how the bitcoin foundation works or independently ? |
| 11:12 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22019 @ 0.00047979 = 10.5645 BTC [-] {2} |
| 11:12 |
davout |
well, you can't really build a good house without good bricks |
| 11:12 |
mircea_popescu |
right. |
| 11:12 |
mircea_popescu |
read the log thread in question tho, it's instructive. about how the point is to have code signed for having been read. |
| 11:13 |
davout |
you don't refer to yesterday's convo do you? |
| 11:13 |
davout |
!s signed code |
| 11:13 |
assbot |
24 results for 'signed code' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=signed+code |
| 11:15 |
davout |
meant yesterday's log as it seems it has come up quite a few times already :D |
| 11:15 |
mircea_popescu |
no. |
| 11:15 |
mircea_popescu |
this was a few weeks prior to the foundation's birth. |
| 11:16 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-09-2014#824250 |
| 11:16 |
assbot |
Logged on 10-09-2014 11:54:21; mircea_popescu: other than proper cryptography for all foss, as discussed coupla days re gentoo overlays etc, i would fucking love for all lines of code to come with a counter. |
| 11:16 |
davout |
ty |
| 11:17 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25821 @ 0.00047875 = 12.3618 BTC [-] |
| 11:19 |
davout |
it appears that if we want to make a proper apple pie from scratch we'll have to invent the universe first |
| 11:21 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20000 @ 0.00005363 = 1.0726 BTC [+] {12} |
| 11:21 |
mircea_popescu |
which is finbe |
| 11:21 |
mircea_popescu |
the current universe sucks anyway. |
| 11:21 |
davout |
it is fine indeed |
| 11:23 |
kakobrekla |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2015#979896 < http://w.b-a.link/otps/kakobrekla/last |
| 11:23 |
assbot |
Logged on 17-01-2015 01:06:05; PeterL: having the same for voice would make it so our scripts from gribble would be easily convirtable |
| 11:23 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1IUaynW ) |
| 11:23 |
davout |
i have nfi what kind of workload it would represent to make some linux fork that's entirely reviewed, assume it'd be pretty massive |
| 11:23 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla : can assbot match 32 char strings as keyids instead of names ? |
| 11:23 |
mircea_popescu |
so stuff like <mircea_popescu> !gettrust mircea_popescu 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 |
| 11:23 |
mircea_popescu |
<assbot> 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 is not registered in WoT. |
| 11:23 |
PeterL |
new voicing model, we still have to join #b-a before verifying otp |
| 11:23 |
mircea_popescu |
works so it simplifies deedbot design a lot ? |
| 11:23 |
mircea_popescu |
davout depends how much crap you're wiling to hoist overboard. |
| 11:24 |
kakobrekla |
how does it simplify ? |
| 11:24 |
davout |
yup |
| 11:24 |
PeterL |
kakobrekla: are you pointing out my horrible spelling? :) |
| 11:24 |
mircea_popescu |
the workload pain will probably be far exceeded by the cries of horror of the large hordes of nobodies that can no longer "innovate", in the sense their gunk is no longer included in repos |
| 11:24 |
kakobrekla |
<PeterL> new voicing model, we still have to join #b-a before verifying otp < yes, no session, recall? |
| 11:24 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla 2.1. Bot extracts the signature keyid through a process homologuous to gpg -v -v |
| 11:24 |
mircea_popescu |
2.2. Bot makes a request to assbot via pm, of the format ;;gpg info --key <key currently |
| 11:24 |
kakobrekla |
PeterL you are missing the link ? |
| 11:24 |
mircea_popescu |
that way, it wouldn't have to do two steps, just directly gettrust to a keyid. |
| 11:25 |
PeterL |
well, for gribble I have script that runs curl and gpg and pastes the result |
| 11:25 |
kakobrekla |
again : http://w.b-a.link/otps/kakobrekla/last |
| 11:25 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1KSh16y ) |
| 11:25 |
PeterL |
for assbot, now I have to use the mouse to highlight the new link, and type the commands |
| 11:25 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL process http://w.b-a.link/otps/PeterL/last |
| 11:25 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1KSh6ak ) |
| 11:25 |
PeterL |
aha, now I see it |
| 11:25 |
mircea_popescu |
he put that in thar jus fer you :D |
| 11:26 |
PeterL |
that's cool, thanks |
| 11:26 |
PeterL |
too early, can't read yet |
| 11:26 |
mircea_popescu |
<kakobrekla> how does it simplify ? << dja see what i mean ? |
| 11:26 |
kakobrekla |
;;later tell ben_vulpes as requested, json; http://w.b-a.link/user/ben_vulpes/json and http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/kakobrekla/json |
| |
↖ |
| 11:26 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1KShe9Y ) |
| 11:27 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1KShgie ) |
| 11:27 |
gribble |
The operation succeeded. |
| 11:27 |
kakobrekla |
for which command ? |
| 11:27 |
kakobrekla |
i dont have gpg info command |
| 11:27 |
mircea_popescu |
i want !gettrust to match any 32 char string as a key rather than a name |
| 11:28 |
mircea_popescu |
so that !gettrust mircea_popescu 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 responds with "trust from mircea_popescu to mircea_popescu : so an so" |
| 11:28 |
kakobrekla |
yeah |
| 11:28 |
mircea_popescu |
that way two steps become one step and that's that. |
| 11:28 |
kakobrekla |
ill do it for gettrust but not others |
| 11:28 |
mircea_popescu |
all that's needed yes ty. |
| 11:28 |
kakobrekla |
k |
| 11:28 |
PeterL |
!rate kakobrekla 3 Runs AssWoT, other cool stuff |
| 11:28 |
assbot |
Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6a9d8d2d055d69cf |
| 11:29 |
PeterL |
!v assbot:PeterL.rate.kakobrekla.3:ad06b594522d33faffcdf84b870db76a3fbd1fcda55e860ddec83a58b3864168 |
| 11:29 |
assbot |
Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 2 to 3 with note: Runs AssWoT, other cool stuff |
| 11:29 |
kakobrekla |
amazing |
| 11:29 |
assbot |
AMAZING COMPANY! |
| 11:29 |
PeterL |
is scoopbot still running? -hi |
| 11:29 |
scoopbot |
Hello PeterL! |
| 11:30 |
PeterL |
oh, good |
| 11:30 |
mircea_popescu |
are you a slut scoopbot ? -slut |
| 11:30 |
mircea_popescu |
a well, so much for ai. |
| 11:42 |
davout |
http://i.imgur.com/00C6KHP.jpg |
| 11:42 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1KSiqKs ) |
| 11:42 |
decimation |
apparently obama also made remarks on backdoor encryption http://www.lawfareblog.com/2015/01/president-obama-comments-on-back-doors-in-encryption/ |
| 11:42 |
assbot |
Lawfare › President Obama Comments on Back-doors in Encryption ... ( http://bit.ly/1KSisSw ) |
| 11:42 |
decimation |
or to be more precise, he failed to make remarks when asked the question |
| 11:42 |
mircea_popescu |
ow shit i forgot the porny link. |
| 11:42 |
mircea_popescu |
http://41.media.tumblr.com/41d822d78facf0f09366bc77bda03093/tumblr_mpfi5pcu321rdn1byo1_500.jpg |
| 11:42 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1KSiry4 ) |
| 11:42 |
decimation |
other than vague "we work with companies who also have families", which is exactly the same argument one gets from the local mobster I presume |
| 11:43 |
mircea_popescu |
o hai chetty |
| 11:43 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation have you seen the "toasting the queen" thing ? |
| 11:43 |
kakobrekla |
mircea_popescu perhaps is even easier if i just allow for w.b-a.link/trust/key1/key2/json ? |
| 11:43 |
mircea_popescu |
that poor guy, he looks like a neurotic setter. |
| 11:44 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla sure! |
| 11:44 |
mircea_popescu |
what's assbot key again ? |
| 11:44 |
decimation |
eh? I don't think so |
| 11:44 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation he goes to toast the queen. the athem's going on so queen ignores him. |
| 11:45 |
mircea_popescu |
lotta hay made out of how "the queen snubbed obama'. but the guy's just not very aware. which looked to me like a very very tired man that's being constantly pestered with advice and requirements by about 9 spinster women. |
| 11:45 |
kakobrekla |
assbot is 7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C |
| 11:45 |
mircea_popescu |
aka, the typical american child of 2010. |
| 11:45 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60869 @ 0.00048599 = 29.5817 BTC [+] {4} |
| 11:45 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla works for me, editing this spec. |
| 11:47 |
decimation |
yeah, actually from his rambling answer in the linked youtube (starting 45:30), there's very little evidence obama is even aware about the 'backdoor encryption' issue at all |
| 11:47 |
mircea_popescu |
honestly, i don't see it's a president's job, that. |
| 11:47 |
mircea_popescu |
and it's not how you ask the president that question, either. |
| 11:47 |
decimation |
well, certainly it ought to be something he answers in writing, in detail |
| 11:48 |
decimation |
the trouble is there's no method to compel an answer |
| 11:48 |
mircea_popescu |
this is roughly the equivalent of a company with 10k cab fleet having famously a weak alternator, and some reporter asking the CEO "what about the spinny trick ?" |
| 11:48 |
mircea_popescu |
that's not what you say. you say, "as you may be aware, because this so and so weakness in this part of the engine that does that and this, some drivers are so and so.". guy needs an intro. |
| 11:48 |
mircea_popescu |
no, there shouldn't be a way to compel an answer. wtf ?! |
| 11:50 |
scoopbot |
New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets/ |
| 11:50 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla can there be a /n after each otp before encryption pls. |
| 11:50 |
mircea_popescu |
currently it bleeds into teh bash. dun wanna put an "echo "/n"" in there . |
| 11:51 |
decimation |
well, there's an issue of policy here, which is "is a us person allowed to communicate in a manner outside the possibility of usg interception?" |
| 11:52 |
mircea_popescu |
right. that should be the question. like that. |
| 11:52 |
decimation |
because the implication of both cameron's and obama's answer is "no" |
| 11:52 |
mircea_popescu |
because that's why we go to school : so we can present our inquiries in such a way that OTHER PEOPLE can fucking grok wtf we want to know |
| 11:53 |
decimation |
and that appears to completely contradict constitutional and court precedent |
| 11:53 |
decimation |
'because terrorism' |
| 11:53 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation i bet you the guy does not even currently ~KNOW~ that that's what's being discussed. |
| 11:53 |
decimation |
cameron clearly does, but obama gave no evidence of it |
| 11:54 |
mircea_popescu |
because fucking aspie autistic idiot kids + total incompetent "women in journalism" ask dronign, meaningless questions |
| 11:54 |
decimation |
note that there are people who could ask such questions |
| 11:54 |
PeterL |
http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/15/womens-college-cancels-vagina-monologues |
| 11:54 |
assbot |
Women's College Cancels 'Vagina Monologues' Because It Excludes Women Without Vaginas - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1KSjjTd ) |
| 11:54 |
decimation |
but the press corps is carefully selected to exclude them |
| 11:54 |
mircea_popescu |
camweon's a total heel. i have nfi whatabout england produces such contemptible sacks of shit. i thought blair was an exception, but apparently he was just a harbringer. |
| 11:55 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation so noted. why don't they ? |
| 11:55 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL obviously, the idiocy's own internal logic is its downfall. kinda the problem with all insanity. |
| 11:55 |
decimation |
because the civil service would exclude access to that journalist's organization |
| 11:55 |
PeterL |
right, lol |
| 11:56 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation i propose excluding that entire thing. |
| 11:57 |
mircea_popescu |
!up chetty |
| 11:57 |
mircea_popescu |
chetty try it in here so we see ? |
| 11:57 |
chetty |
!v assbot:chetty.up:ef543cc75b665e6c256ba24daf682446e46a10a97d497ef0f6258a61671a362 |
| 11:57 |
assbot |
Invalid verfication string. |
| 11:58 |
PeterL |
somebody is trying to hack into chetty's account? |
| 11:58 |
chetty |
it doesnt like me |
| 11:58 |
mircea_popescu |
that string's too short. |
| 11:58 |
mircea_popescu |
missing 9 chars. |
| 11:58 |
chetty |
what my key has been hax |
| 11:58 |
mircea_popescu |
nah. |
| 11:59 |
kakobrekla |
hm |
| 11:59 |
kakobrekla |
try that in private ? |
| 11:59 |
mircea_popescu |
it's the missing /n at en of otp giving all sorts of people hell |
| 11:59 |
mircea_popescu |
because gotta recover the end of the key from their bash string |
| 11:59 |
decimation |
cameron said "as technology develops, as the world moves on, we should try to avoid safehavens that can otherwise be created for terrorists to talk to each other" |
| 11:59 |
kakobrekla |
otp !up should work only on private |
| 11:59 |
kakobrekla |
chan !up is for non otp use |
| 12:00 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla im pretty sure i v'd here. |
| 12:00 |
kakobrekla |
!up Anduck |
| 12:00 |
kakobrekla |
!down Anduck |
| 12:00 |
kakobrekla |
!u |
| 12:00 |
kakobrekla |
!up |
| 12:00 |
mircea_popescu |
!v dude. !v. |
| 12:00 |
assbot |
Invalid verfication string. |
| 12:00 |
kakobrekla |
a yes, v you can you anywhere |
| 12:00 |
decimation |
perhaps that quote should be gossipd's motto |
| 12:01 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation could well be lol. |
| 12:01 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation: there's a deep hypocrisy here somewhere. apparently the usg entities who are involved with foreign surveillance couldn't possibly do their jobs if they were subject to 'regulation', but of course regular people trying to say, transact bitcoin, have no such reprieve << well, usg entities that deal in bitcoin do have such reprieve currently ? |
| 12:01 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55000 @ 0.00047492 = 26.1206 BTC [-] {2} |
| 12:02 |
decimation |
some elements of usg would claim otherwise |
| 12:02 |
mircea_popescu |
heck, the us scammer office (previously marshall's office) doesn't have to answer foia if it doesn't feel like it, and can even lie in public statements. |
| 12:02 |
mircea_popescu |
come to think about it, so can the da. |
| 12:02 |
mircea_popescu |
seems to me like pretty complete legal immunity. |
| 12:03 |
decimation |
in theory, usg has no legal immunity (from criminal courts), but in practice it clearly does |
| 12:03 |
mircea_popescu |
for as long as that lasts lol. |
| 12:04 |
decimation |
in civil court usg has explicit immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States |
| 12:04 |
assbot |
Sovereign immunity in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1wik1yA ) |
| 12:05 |
mircea_popescu |
this is universal. |
| 12:05 |
mircea_popescu |
bitbet has it as well. so does every other country. |
| 12:05 |
kakobrekla |
mircea_popescu http://w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/27C3CE9A20851312F086268C27AF75321F2489E8 |
| 12:05 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1wik9y5 ) |
| 12:05 |
mircea_popescu |
sweet. |
| 12:05 |
kakobrekla |
actually http://w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/27C3CE9A20851312F086268C27AF75321F2489E8 |
| 12:05 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1wikfpg ) |
| 12:05 |
kakobrekla |
and http://w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/27C3CE9A20851312F086268C27AF75321F2489E8/json |
| 12:05 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1wikfFJ ) |
| 12:06 |
mircea_popescu |
this doesn't look like it should be legal., |
| 12:06 |
mircea_popescu |
it's too complicated. |
| 12:06 |
kakobrekla |
yeah ill prolly end up in jail |
| 12:07 |
mircea_popescu |
move to hungary. i hear they're going all fascist. |
| 12:07 |
PeterL |
there was talk earlier about newspapers. I find good local reporting at http://mlive.com and my sister-in-law writes for http://tooeleonline.com/ |
| 12:07 |
assbot |
Michigan Local News, Breaking News, Sports & Weather - MLive.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1wikq44 ) |
| 12:07 |
assbot |
Tooele Transcript Bulletin – News in Tooele, Utah ... ( http://bit.ly/1wikqkq ) |
| 12:08 |
mircea_popescu |
lol i read that as "toe online" was o.O |
| 12:08 |
PeterL |
lol |
| 12:09 |
kakobrekla |
mircea_popescu check new line if fixed? |
| 12:09 |
mircea_popescu |
!rate kakobrekla 17 hurr |
| 12:09 |
assbot |
Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10. |
| 12:09 |
mircea_popescu |
!rate kakobrekla 1.7 hurr |
| 12:09 |
assbot |
Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/9f1f7a77bb5ab2a1 |
| 12:10 |
kakobrekla |
lol. |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
lmao fractions rly ? |
| 12:10 |
kakobrekla |
try it |
| 12:10 |
kakobrekla |
see what happens |
| 12:10 |
decimation |
!rate decimation 0.1 marginal |
| 12:10 |
assbot |
You can not rate yourself. |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
fixed tyvm |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.kakobrekla.1.7:b40b7beddd0f6b2f45874cb24cdb3dcd9c051c5c9727a4b306b1f115729982a0 |
| 12:10 |
assbot |
Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 5 to 1.7 with note: hurr |
| 12:10 |
kakobrekla |
lol! |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
lmao wut |
| 12:10 |
kakobrekla |
nfi |
| 12:10 |
PeterL |
!rate decimation 0.1 marginal |
| 12:10 |
assbot |
Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/9d9547d664ea4ebf |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
this is not a bug. |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
it's a future. |
| 12:11 |
decimation |
lol |
| 12:11 |
decimation |
me thinks there might be some bugs |
| 12:11 |
PeterL |
!v assbot:PeterL.rate.decimation.0.1:17d02404cae9e530dcd5e82a06dad23963c9560e9b0530d785bd01da78a11710 |
| 12:11 |
assbot |
Successfully added a rating of 0.1 for decimation with note: marginal |
| 12:11 |
mircea_popescu |
nah srsly. kakobrekla dun bother fixing |
| 12:11 |
decimation |
lol |
| 12:11 |
PeterL |
so, if somebody has < 1 L2 rating, they don't get voice? or it just has to be > 0? |
| 12:12 |
mircea_popescu |
> 0 i hope. |
| 12:12 |
kakobrekla |
!gettrust kakobrekla |
| 12:12 |
assbot |
Trust relationship from user kakobrekla to user kakobrekla: ∞ | http://w.b-a.link/user/kakobrekla |
| 12:12 |
kakobrekla |
hmm |
| 12:12 |
mircea_popescu |
!gettrust kakobrekla |
| 12:12 |
assbot |
Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user kakobrekla: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 54 via 32 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/mircea_popescu/kakobrekla | http://w.b-a.link/user/kakobrekla |
| 12:12 |
kakobrekla |
i think it didnt work |
| 12:12 |
mircea_popescu |
o look it rounds ? |
| 12:12 |
PeterL |
!gettrust decimation |
| 12:12 |
assbot |
Trust relationship from user PeterL to user decimation: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/PeterL/decimation | http://w.b-a.link/user/decimation |
| 12:12 |
PeterL |
rounds down? |
| 12:13 |
kakobrekla |
no, it did not work, comment is unchanged |
| 12:13 |
mircea_popescu |
!rate kakobrekla 5 too much stuff to list. inquire within.. |
| 12:13 |
assbot |
Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/721476ec38fdf8b8 |
| 12:13 |
PeterL |
!rated decimation |
| 12:13 |
assbot |
You rated user decimation on 17-Jan-2015, with a rating of 0, and supplied these additional notes: marginal. |
| 12:13 |
PeterL |
see, rounded down |
| 12:13 |
mircea_popescu |
!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.kakobrekla.5:4854d908f615d0a4735169e307d17352740d17b15f4608f0200d018f6683baad |
| 12:13 |
assbot |
Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 2 to 5 with note: too much stuff to list. inquire within.. |
| 12:14 |
mircea_popescu |
baad eh ? |
| 12:14 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL i guess 1.7 -> 2 0.1 -> 0 |
| 12:14 |
PeterL |
so it lets you input a fraction, but converts to int? |
| 12:15 |
kakobrekla |
why are you asking me, do you think i know ? |
| 12:15 |
* |
kakobrekla goes to look the code |
| 12:15 |
davout |
b-a is so mean, kakobrekla makes something nice, everyone tries to break it |
| 12:15 |
PeterL |
you made it? |
| 12:15 |
mircea_popescu |
it was his twin brother. |
| 12:16 |
PeterL |
the more we disclose now leaves less suprises later |
| 12:16 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 144 @ 0.00734105 = 1.0571 BTC [-] |
| 12:16 |
mircea_popescu |
he's just jealous we care. |
| 12:20 |
kakobrekla |
!rate assbot -1.1 |
| 12:20 |
assbot |
Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10. |
| 12:20 |
mircea_popescu |
nonzero integer |
| 12:20 |
kakobrekla |
should say int but whatever. |
| 12:20 |
kakobrekla |
heh |
| 12:20 |
mircea_popescu |
yeah no big deal |
| 12:21 |
PeterL |
so no more decimals? |
| 12:21 |
kakobrekla |
NO |
| 12:21 |
kakobrekla |
NO DECIMALS FOR YOU |
| 12:21 |
kakobrekla |
COME BACK NEXT YEAR |
| 12:21 |
* |
PeterL hangs head in shame |
| 12:21 |
fluffypony |
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sqh0a/decentralising_mining_making_p2pool_more/ |
| 12:21 |
assbot |
Decentralising mining: Making P2Pool more lucrative by coinbaseless fees? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1KSl3Mn ) |
| 12:21 |
fluffypony |
"The alert key will be raised by Gavin" |
| 12:21 |
fluffypony |
don't worry guize, Gavin will save err'one |
| 12:22 |
mircea_popescu |
lol |
| 12:25 |
mircea_popescu |
http://38.media.tumblr.com/c137c08dddcf441ea324c1f37c8c8246/tumblr_mnryfvVNSu1ssms30o1_500.gif << post gavin salvation. |
| 12:25 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1KSliam ) |
| 12:27 |
PeterL |
!up chetty |
| 12:29 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.00069999 = 1.4 BTC [-] |
| 12:34 |
PeterL |
!up Panadol______ |
| 12:35 |
PeterL |
hi Panadol______ , what brings you here today? |
| |
~ 43 minutes ~ |
| 13:18 |
mircea_popescu |
!up bitspill |
| 13:18 |
mircea_popescu |
!up McNumpty |
| 13:18 |
mircea_popescu |
!up mats |
| 13:19 |
mats |
a hello |
| 13:20 |
mircea_popescu |
hai, |
| 13:20 |
mats |
!s dnssec |
| 13:20 |
assbot |
15 results for 'dnssec' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dnssec |
| 13:21 |
mircea_popescu |
http://www.collarspace.com/personals/v/2177988/details.htm << if anyone in london wants to host a retiring escort... |
| 13:21 |
assbot |
Dear All, My name is Coco, I am a 20 year old Chinese girl and I have just arrived fr ... ( http://bit.ly/1yvXNPk ) |
| 13:21 |
mats |
http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/01/15/against-dnssec/ |
| 13:21 |
assbot |
Against DNSSEC — Quarrelsome ... ( http://bit.ly/1yvXP9N ) |
| 13:21 |
mircea_popescu |
seems you can't be black tho. |
| 13:22 |
mircea_popescu |
mats all good points. |
| 13:23 |
mircea_popescu |
we stand against dns and against govt-sponsored pki schemes. their combination is not likely to resolve that. |
| 13:23 |
mircea_popescu |
(well minus the "modern crypto uses ecdsa") |
| 13:25 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00048985 = 10.2869 BTC [+] |
| 13:33 |
ben_vulpes |
good morning terrorists |
| 13:33 |
ben_vulpes |
http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/kakobrekla/json << lovely, kakobrekla thanks a mil |
| 13:33 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1yvZFrl ) |
| 13:34 |
mircea_popescu |
hi terror brother ben |
| 13:34 |
ben_vulpes |
buenos dias |
| 13:34 |
ben_vulpes |
the apartment complex drain backed up |
| 13:35 |
ben_vulpes |
i awoke to sewage leaking around the bathtub plug actuator |
| 13:35 |
mircea_popescu |
this somehow brings to mind iron maiden |
| 13:35 |
ben_vulpes |
it's a Good Morning in America™ |
| 13:36 |
mircea_popescu |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dzSEenqc3w |
| 13:36 |
assbot |
Iron Maiden - Holy Smoke - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1yw03pT ) |
| 13:36 |
mircea_popescu |
!up gabriel_laddel |
| 13:36 |
mircea_popescu |
you know you can assbot selfvoice ? |
| 13:36 |
gabriel_laddel |
yeah |
| 13:37 |
mircea_popescu |
"I've lived in filth, I've lived in sin, but I still smell cleaner than the shit you're in" |
| 13:38 |
gabriel_laddel |
Any #-assets members who will admit to being a fan of supreme commander or total annihilation? |
| 13:39 |
mircea_popescu |
total commander ? |
| 13:39 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00049959 = 12.8395 BTC [+] {2} |
| 13:39 |
ben_vulpes |
supreme annihilation's a pretty fun game |
| 13:39 |
ben_vulpes |
need the right partners tho |
| 13:40 |
* |
ben_vulpes eyes p. bahaha |
| 13:40 |
ben_vulpes |
http://trilema.com/2015/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets/ << wish i had time for this one |
| 13:40 |
assbot |
[OPEN] Deed system for #bitcoin-assets pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1yw0HUh ) |
| 13:40 |
mircea_popescu |
actually the supreme commander thing looks pretty slick. |
| 13:40 |
gabriel_laddel |
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mZZiI4ShQ |
| 13:40 |
assbot |
Total Annihilation Intro (brighter) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1yw0IaT ) |
| 13:40 |
mircea_popescu |
somehow i've never played either. |
| 13:43 |
gabriel_laddel |
they're in the same vein of games such as diablo I&II, baulders gate, path of exile etc. Not in terms of gameplay, but overall attention to detail and cohesive structure. |
| 13:44 |
mircea_popescu |
!up Tykling |
| 13:45 |
mircea_popescu |
they look more like tower defense / dune2 sort of thing to me / |
| 13:45 |
mircea_popescu |
baldur's gate btw! |
| 13:47 |
gabriel_laddel |
oh ty. |
| 13:48 |
undata |
ben_vulpes: we have a buddy with an extensible IRC bot; how's that raw tx backport coming? |
| 13:48 |
undata |
er archaeology and re-implementation |
| 13:49 |
undata |
actually, it appears it would only have to be aware that a tx has occurred, not send any |
| 13:51 |
ben_vulpes |
undata: if you're interested in implementing, talk to MP for the spec |
| 13:51 |
ben_vulpes |
i don't really know how the transmission of btc is supposed to work for the thing |
| 13:51 |
undata |
it'd be neat if the thing paid its own bills out of its fees on some btc vps |
| 13:51 |
ben_vulpes |
probably want to decouple bot from funding actions |
| 13:52 |
ben_vulpes |
anyways |
| 13:52 |
ben_vulpes |
tx backport archaeology's an interesting thing |
| 13:52 |
ben_vulpes |
i'm starting to see some of the rationale behind the wallet paradigm - creating transactions for signing requires being able to retrieve arbitrary transactions from the blockchain |
| 13:52 |
danielpbarron |
i'd say TA is more like starcraft |
| 13:53 |
ben_vulpes |
far easier for the people working on it at the time to make some silly assumptions about what txns a user would want to sign, and then keep those txns on hand |
| 13:53 |
ben_vulpes |
creating a raw transaction requires having the previous transaction in hand in full at runtime, so as to extract the pubkey from the previous transaction |
| 13:54 |
ben_vulpes |
while this isn't *strictly* necessary, it's how things work now. |
| 13:54 |
ben_vulpes |
i don't know that a bitcoind would be able to verify a transaction without access to the full inputs |
| 13:55 |
danielpbarron |
i thought all you need to know is the tx id of the outputs you want to use, the private keys of the coresponding addresses, a destination, and an amount |
| 13:55 |
ben_vulpes |
to use the modern txn api, yeah |
| 13:56 |
ben_vulpes |
but! |
| 13:56 |
ben_vulpes |
to verify that you've created a valid transaction, you have to have the entirety of the previous output on hand to examine the public key |
| 13:57 |
ben_vulpes |
otherwise you just sign hash of txn, index in txn, and have no way to double check that you produced a valid signature corresponding to the pubkey to which those funds were transmitted originally. |
| 13:57 |
ben_vulpes |
danielpbarron: make sense? |
| 13:58 |
ben_vulpes |
(one can sign anything at any time - that's not the problem. the problems crop up in a) knowing the sigs are valid and b) the multi-input, multi-privkey transaction generation use-case: how am i to know which privkeys are to be used to sign which inputs, and furthermore [and somewhat recursively] how do i know those signatures to be valid?) |
| 13:58 |
danielpbarron |
what are you signing it with? |
| 13:59 |
ben_vulpes |
a user-supplied privkey. |
| 13:59 |
danielpbarron |
the one that goes with the pubkey of the output right/ |
| 13:59 |
ben_vulpes |
sure |
| 13:59 |
ben_vulpes |
how do i get the pubkey for a given output? |
| 14:00 |
ben_vulpes |
say i have the transaction hash (aka txid) and output index - how do i get the pubkey those coins were sent to? |
| 14:00 |
danielpbarron |
this is for deedbot right? don't you already know what the last pubkey was? |
| 14:00 |
ben_vulpes |
no no no |
| 14:00 |
ben_vulpes |
raw transactions |
| 14:01 |
ben_vulpes |
*entirely* different project |
| 14:01 |
danielpbarron |
oh well yeah you need to know the whole blockchain to verify a tx in that case |
| 14:02 |
danielpbarron |
i tried to make a raw tx once, got rejected by my own node for having too small a fee |
| 14:02 |
asciilifeform |
sorta the point of having blockchain, no ? |
| 14:03 |
ben_vulpes |
"whole blockchain" << and more specifically, a trivial lookup of txids |
| 14:04 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: iirc, i did mention 'can pull up arbitrary tx' as part of what a 'whole bitcoin node' has to do |
| 14:04 |
asciilifeform |
perhaps i should have given more proof |
| 14:04 |
* |
asciilifeform lazy |
| 14:05 |
* |
ben_vulpes pissing on fences |
| 14:05 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes not dead, therefore grew stronger |
| 14:05 |
ben_vulpes |
learned some |
| 14:06 |
ben_vulpes |
brain now contains c++, not sure if improvement |
| 14:06 |
asciilifeform |
at any rate, there is really no way to understand the thing other than - reading it |
| 14:06 |
asciilifeform |
however unpleasant |
| 14:06 |
ben_vulpes |
<danielpbarron> i tried to make a raw tx once, got rejected by my own node for having too small a fee << heinous |
| 14:20 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52300 @ 0.00050221 = 26.2656 BTC [+] {3} |
| 14:21 |
davout |
danielpbarron: iirc with the raw tx thing you can send zero fees without problem, there's however a safeguard against sending a massive fee |
| 14:36 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.125 = 1.125 BTC [-] |
| 14:47 |
mircea_popescu |
ben_vulpes> danielpbarron: make sense? << yes, that's what that is. |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
| 15:06 |
davout |
https://github.com/cinchrb/cinch/commit/496f026439ab6c421ac229a34246bf26f2b4daa6 <<< feminists... |
| 15:06 |
assbot |
Remove gender specific language · 496f026 · cinchrb/cinch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1CaWc2h ) |
| 15:10 |
undata |
davout: it's ruby; let them have it |
| 15:11 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55900 @ 0.00048731 = 27.2406 BTC [-] {2} |
| 15:13 |
davout |
undata: i like ruby :) |
| 15:15 |
undata |
eh alright |
| 15:23 |
ben_vulpes |
nevermind that them/their is actually incorrect grammar if not used in reference to more than one person |
| 15:26 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45900 @ 0.00048471 = 22.2482 BTC [-] {2} |
| 15:27 |
davout |
ben_vulpes: wasn't sure about that, I assumed a weakness in my own english since no one brought that up, but it did sound slightly weird, thanks for clearing it up! |
| 15:31 |
Apocalyptic |
looks like a valid "singular they" to me, "valid" in the grammatical sense |
| 15:33 |
ben_vulpes |
it's only ever pushed by "anti sexists" |
| 15:34 |
ben_vulpes |
as a valid construct. |
| 15:34 |
ben_vulpes |
a plural cannot by definition be a singular thing. |
| 15:34 |
ben_vulpes |
if you don't know the gender, say "his or her" |
| 15:34 |
ben_vulpes |
"their" implies more than one party. |
| 15:36 |
punkman |
it works :) |
| 15:37 |
punkman |
http://i.imgur.com/Pg5CRSB.png |
| 15:37 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1ud5dqR ) |
| 15:38 |
punkman |
ben_vulpes, I think "their/they" was being used long before the queers adopted it |
| 15:40 |
ben_vulpes |
"pushed by" not "initiated by". furthermore, doesn't make the usage somehow acceptable. |
| 15:41 |
ben_vulpes |
not that anyone should expect a "developer" to understand how to write english well - it's hard and takes a lot of dedicated study. |
| 15:41 |
ben_vulpes |
as someone somewhere once said "i don't hire developers who spell well, i hire developers who mispell consistently." |
| 15:43 |
asciilifeform |
it's hard and takes a lot of dedicated study << only for folks who do not read for pleasure in the particular language. |
| 15:43 |
kakobrekla |
fuck i read |
| 15:43 |
kakobrekla |
and i like it |
| 15:43 |
kakobrekla |
still spell for shit |
| 15:43 |
kakobrekla |
spill i mean |
| 15:44 |
kakobrekla |
peal |
| 15:44 |
kakobrekla |
speal |
| 15:46 |
davout |
kakobrekla: would it be hard to make links such as w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/291237F37A2C023CADBED52513288EAB01713428/json work with keyids as well as fingerprints? |
| 15:46 |
kakobrekla |
keyids are evil |
| 15:47 |
davout |
yea, i was reading gpg's rfc yesterday and found out that they aren't supposed to be relied upon for unicity |
| 15:47 |
* |
kakobrekla has nfi why nano keeps keyid field in his db |
| 15:48 |
davout |
thing is, i was also reading mp's deedbot spec, the part i was wondering about was the "extract keyid from signed message, and use it in w.b-a.link URL" |
| 15:48 |
kakobrekla |
replace keyid with fp ? |
| 15:48 |
davout |
kakobrekla: "nfi why nano keeps keyid field in his db" <<< if you keep the fingerprint you're automatically keeping the key id as far as i understand since the key id is simply the second half of the fpr |
| 15:49 |
kakobrekla |
last 16 chars iirc |
| 15:49 |
kakobrekla |
out of 40 |
| 15:49 |
davout |
"replace keyid with fp ?" <<< sure, but how do i get the fpr from a signed message? gpg -v -v will just return the key id |
| 15:50 |
kakobrekla |
--fingerprint ? |
| 15:51 |
davout |
that would work when listing keys, i can't seem to get it work when piping a clearsigned msg to "gpg -v -v --fingerprint" |
| 15:52 |
punkman |
--with-fingerprint maybe |
| 15:52 |
davout |
s/it xork/it to work/ |
| 15:52 |
davout |
derp |
| 15:52 |
kakobrekla |
cunt spill fer shut! |
| 15:52 |
undata |
ben_vulpes: them being the feminists you pedant |
| 15:52 |
undata |
:p |
| 15:53 |
kakobrekla |
davout idk worst case some awk and pipes ? |
| 15:53 |
undata |
ben_vulpes: hah oh the commit |
| 15:53 |
undata |
carry on then |
| 15:54 |
davout |
punkman: doth not work |
| 15:54 |
undata |
as for english as I delve into a few other languages on duolingo I find my native tongue ever more horrifying |
| 15:54 |
undata |
a shantytown cobbled together with the leftovers of other cultures |
| 15:54 |
davout |
if i don't have the key in my own keyring it doesn't seem possible to extract the fingerprint from a signed message |
| 15:54 |
undata |
however thouse german articles are going to do me in |
| 15:55 |
kakobrekla |
davout you can search keyserver perhps, but starting the search wherever with keyid instead of fp is not best idea |
| 15:56 |
Apocalyptic |
davout, yeah but anyway you would have the key in your keyring since you have to validate the sig |
| 15:56 |
Apocalyptic |
so this is a false problem |
| 15:56 |
davout |
it's always possible to query gribble to get the mapping, but that seems... suboptimal |
| 15:56 |
punkman |
davout, there is some combination of options that will do it for sure, you can look in python-gnupg |
| 15:56 |
kakobrekla |
the point is MAPPING is bad |
| 15:56 |
undata |
davout: you're not going to write it in ruby are you? |
| 15:56 |
undata |
pls no |
| 15:56 |
davout |
Apocalyptic: "you have to validate the sig" <<< no i don't think so |
| 15:56 |
kakobrekla |
doesnt matter WHERE you do it |
| 15:56 |
undata |
I've got a friend with a decent golang bot on github |
| 15:57 |
kakobrekla |
lol |
| 15:57 |
Apocalyptic |
davout, wait, so you're going to publish the deed without checking the signature is legit ? |
| 15:57 |
davout |
Apocalyptic: yeah, i think mp mentioned somewhere that verifying the sig is not necessary |
| 15:57 |
Apocalyptic |
oh ok |
| 15:58 |
* |
undata considers the silence an affirmative... |
| 15:58 |
punkman |
pretty sure it has to be verified |
| 15:58 |
davout |
kakobrekla: i agree, it's bad if you rely on keyids to actually identify the key, but if you output the actual full fingerprints in the returned json one can make an educated choice |
| 15:58 |
davout |
punkman: mebbe i'm wrong here, lemme try and find a reference |
| 15:58 |
Apocalyptic |
sounds to me like a dubious choice but heh, if mp sez so |
| 15:59 |
Apocalyptic |
I can see a quite unpleasant spam attack otherwise |
| 15:59 |
kakobrekla |
which json is that ? |
| 16:00 |
davout |
punkman Apocalyptic http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#815284 |
| 16:00 |
assbot |
Logged on 30-08-2014 00:59:50; mircea_popescu: this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya |
| 16:00 |
kakobrekla |
you mean you input keyid and i output fp |
| 16:00 |
kakobrekla |
you still need to check i didnt give you garbage no |
| 16:00 |
davout |
yeah, i put fpr or keyid in url, you spit out the fpr, actually no that's dumb |
| 16:00 |
undata |
https://github.com/kyleterry/tenyks << use this |
| 16:00 |
assbot |
kyleterry/tenyks · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ud8k1W ) |
| 16:01 |
davout |
lemme think moar |
| 16:01 |
kakobrekla |
undata is it decoupled? |
| 16:01 |
undata |
yeah |
| 16:01 |
undata |
you'd write the deed bit as a plugin |
| 16:02 |
kakobrekla |
not what i mean |
| 16:02 |
punkman |
as a reminder, code is here https://github.com/extempore/deedbundler |
| 16:02 |
assbot |
extempore/deedbundler · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ud8wOD ) |
| 16:02 |
punkman |
(some updates and docs coming in next couple days) |
| 16:03 |
kakobrekla |
decoupled bot means that the connection process is seperate from all others |
| 16:03 |
davout |
what *is* specified is that the bot must verify that the signer has L1/L2 assbot trust, looks like this can't be verified correctly without either relying on a keyid as an actual key unique identifier OR keeping a synchronized keyring and actually verifying the signature |
| 16:03 |
undata |
kakobrekla: yes, that's what I meant |
| 16:03 |
undata |
the networking core is one thing, and plugins communicate with that over redis |
| 16:04 |
undata |
plugins can be started and stopped independently of the core |
| 16:04 |
kakobrekla |
redis eh |
| 16:04 |
punkman |
kakobrekla: can haz asswot dump? |
| 16:04 |
* |
kakobrekla will one day recode assbot with zmq |
| 16:04 |
kakobrekla |
punkman ill set up a daily dump to files.b-a |
| 16:05 |
punkman |
kewl |
| 16:07 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00049101 = 12.2753 BTC [+] |
| 16:10 |
Apocalyptic |
davout, so you're taking the deedbot project ? |
| 16:12 |
undata |
to summarize what's desired, the bot accepts signed documents from wot members in good standing only, publishes them by burning a small amount of btc and uploading to a site? |
| 16:12 |
davout |
Apocalyptic: i've started poking at it yep |
| 16:13 |
davout |
undata: it doesn't burn the bitcoins |
| 16:13 |
davout |
other than that your understanding seems correct to me |
| 16:13 |
undata |
ah you're right |
| 16:13 |
undata |
the hash is the privkey |
| 16:13 |
undata |
derp |
| 16:14 |
undata |
seems like the parties wishing to publish should provide coin to the deedbot operator |
| 16:14 |
davout |
not really sure why it has to be restricted to asseteers but w/e |
| 16:14 |
undata |
davout: the deeds are presumably for business arrangements |
| 16:14 |
undata |
the wot is an excellent tool for making good decisions about establishing those |
| 16:15 |
davout |
oh, and it's ppl who have L1/L2 trust from assbot, a subset from the wot members sez the spec |
| 16:15 |
punkman |
ben_vulpes, this might be of interest http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2015/01/14#l1421274866 |
| 16:15 |
assbot |
BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1udaiPI ) |
| 16:16 |
davout |
undata: "the wot is an excellent tool for making good decisions about establishing those" <<< sure, but i'm not sure why the notarization *tool* would enforce that, i defo don't feel strongly enough about it to argue the point either way |
| 16:16 |
undata |
davout: not my rationale; speculating on what it might be |
| 16:17 |
Apocalyptic |
davout, re "looks like this can't be verified correctly without either relying on a keyid as an actual key unique identifier OR keeping a synchronized keyring and actually verifying the signature" I suspect there actually is, playing with the source atm |
| 16:20 |
Apocalyptic |
grep "get_short_fingerprint" in verify.c and see the related call get_fingerprint_hexstring() which supposedly could get the full fp |
| 16:20 |
davout |
Apocalyptic: looking at the rfc to see the clearsigned message structure |
| 16:24 |
davout |
Apocalyptic: RFC 5.2.2 sez a signature packet contains "Eight-octet Key ID of signer" |
| 16:25 |
Apocalyptic |
then it's settled I guess |
| 16:26 |
kakobrekla |
basically it says you are fucked |
| 16:26 |
davout |
o/ |
| 16:26 |
davout |
pretty much |
| 16:27 |
davout |
so basically the options are |
| 16:27 |
scoopbot |
New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/01/british-bankers-association-bitcoin-a-threat-to-sterling-may-aid-terrorists/ |
| 16:28 |
davout |
- alter spec and add a gribble dependency |
| 16:28 |
Apocalyptic |
I wonder what the behaviour is if you have two pubkeys in your keyring with the same eight bytes key id and you're trying to verify a message |
| 16:28 |
davout |
- maintain a full asswot keyring on deedbot's server |
| 16:28 |
davout |
- not give a fuck about who signed a to-be-notarized blob |
| 16:29 |
punkman |
Apocalyptic: you can find keys with keyid collisions here https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair |
| 16:29 |
assbot |
coruus/cooperpair · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1udc43q ) |
| 16:29 |
davout |
- allow unsigned blobs to be notarized |
| 16:29 |
Apocalyptic |
the second seems like a reasonable choice |
| 16:30 |
davout |
- the last option is kakobrekla getting some moar work |
| 16:30 |
Apocalyptic |
punkman, thanks for the link, but I mean that there should be something in the clearsigned message structures that clearly identifies the key that produced it |
| 16:30 |
punkman |
I think there is, but not 100% sure |
| 16:30 |
davout |
well, apparently not |
| 16:30 |
Apocalyptic |
well according to what davout said there is just the 8 bytes |
| 16:31 |
Apocalyptic |
which is clearly not a canonical identification |
| 16:31 |
Apocalyptic |
I confess that surprises me, had imagined the full fp would be somewhere |
| 16:32 |
davout |
looked at version 3 signature packets, mebbe version 4 includes them |
| 16:35 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 175 @ 0.00651001 = 1.1393 BTC [+] |
| 16:40 |
davout |
the version 4 signature subpacket spec isn't that clear to me, maybe asciilifeform has some insight |
| 16:41 |
davout |
kakobrekla: is there a way to easily get an array of asswotted fingerprints? |
| 16:41 |
punkman |
dabout, just tested it http://dpaste.com/3PDW8YM |
| 16:41 |
assbot |
dpaste: 3PDW8YM ... ( http://bit.ly/1uddP0x ) |
| 16:41 |
kakobrekla |
daiily db dump? |
| 16:42 |
davout |
punkman: well, you're requesting a public key, so of course it works :-) |
| 16:43 |
undata |
the dump seems like the most straightforward thing to me |
| 16:43 |
undata |
signed by kakobrekla of course |
| 16:44 |
davout |
kakobrekla: if a 24h delay between asswot registration and ability to notarize is acceptable that would work |
| 16:45 |
davout |
it still boils down to a fpr <-> keyid mapping tho, not that this is evil _for this particular purpose_ but still |
| 16:45 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26850 @ 0.00049379 = 13.2583 BTC [+] {2} |
| 16:45 |
kakobrekla |
the problem with signing that dump is automation and keeping the key on boxen |
| 16:46 |
davout |
kakobrekla: tbh if verifying the signature on notarized data is not considered necessary i don't think it's a big issue if the dump is unsigned |
| 16:46 |
punkman |
davout: you are right, doesn't work with clearsigned message |
| 16:46 |
undata |
why is it not necessary to verify signatures before notarizing? |
| 16:47 |
punkman |
so I guess v4 sigs don't have fingerprints either |
| 16:47 |
davout |
but if you'd be ok with having some API call simply return the array of fingerprints in realtime, that'd be the easiest deedbot-wise :D |
| 16:48 |
undata |
davout: isn't the whole point of a notary verifying the identities of the parties involved then verifying that an agreement has taken place? |
| 16:48 |
undata |
or have I missed something |
| 16:48 |
davout |
undata: i didn't spec it, ask mp for the rationale -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#815284 |
| 16:48 |
assbot |
Logged on 30-08-2014 00:59:50; mircea_popescu: this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya |
| 16:49 |
davout |
undata: the notary doesn't enforce the agreement so why bother verifying the signature at all |
| 16:49 |
undata |
well he's saying ask gribble |
| 16:49 |
undata |
that makes sense |
| 16:50 |
davout |
for all i care the bot could hang out in -assets, and notarize whatever is asked from whoever has voice, sounds like the simplest straight-to-the-point approach to me |
| 16:50 |
undata |
I don't like it |
| 16:50 |
davout |
well, let's light some jasmine candles and talk about our feelings then |
| 16:51 |
undata |
so you're going to rely on the IRC protocol and not gpg? |
| 16:51 |
undata |
the fuck is the point of even having gpg involved then? |
| 16:51 |
undata |
and how does one move the process to another protocol later |
| 16:51 |
undata |
that's dumb |
| 16:53 |
davout |
because the notary doesn't enforce or verify anything, just certifies that something existed at some point of time |
| 16:53 |
undata |
surely one can do better than stamping any turd that comes along |
| 16:53 |
undata |
anyhow do it your way |
| 16:53 |
undata |
I'm hacking on it as well |
| 16:54 |
davout |
lol |
| 16:55 |
davout |
the thing is that, whatever turd comes along is necessarily given by someone who has voice in assets, so by very definition, not a turd |
| 16:55 |
undata |
davout: because no one ever once was opped in a chan that shouldn't have been |
| 16:55 |
undata |
use your head. |
| 16:56 |
davout |
meh, it's not like that person could steal stuff or anything |
| 16:57 |
undata |
says the bridge builder to the parties on either side "eh, fuck it, whatever" |
| 16:57 |
davout |
i mean, even in that case, what's the worst that could happen? specifically? |
| 16:59 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3596 @ 0.00068279 = 2.4553 BTC [-] {12} |
| 17:01 |
undata |
davout: a notary is not just a person with a clock and eyes |
| 17:01 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3933 @ 0.0006596 = 2.5942 BTC [-] {21} |
| 17:01 |
undata |
part of the service is actually having an idea of what has transpired, sort of renting out your good name |
| 17:02 |
undata |
? and ? did *whatever* |
| 17:02 |
undata |
^not a valuable service |
| 17:02 |
undata |
or I'll go sit on a park bench and call myself a notary |
| 17:03 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1925 @ 0.00063202 = 1.2166 BTC [-] {2} |
| 17:04 |
davout |
look, there is a reason it's called deedbot, and not notarybot, it's none of deedbot's business to know what happened, for all you know the notarized stuff could perfectly be encrypted |
| 17:04 |
davout |
what then? you refuse to process it? |
| 17:04 |
undata |
two parties presented themselves to me and both said "I agree to whatevers in this blob" |
| 17:05 |
undata |
I have witnessed that fact and I sign and note the time |
| 17:05 |
undata |
yes that's fine |
| 17:05 |
davout |
that's not what tell you, they tell you 'this blob existed at that point of time, what's in it is none of your business' |
| 17:06 |
undata |
agreeing it existed is an agreement... |
| 17:06 |
undata |
you are being dense; go hack |
| 17:06 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27509 @ 0.00049673 = 13.6645 BTC [+] |
| 17:07 |
undata |
whether it says inside "A owes B his kidney" or "The sky is blue" both can be held to account that they have made the utterance by the existince of the thing |
| 17:07 |
undata |
less so if the witness did not bother to verify identity |
| 17:10 |
davout |
the point is to timestamp stuff, not hold anyone accountable to anybody other than by the actual parties to the contract, what's so hard about that? |
| 17:11 |
undata |
no, it's to timestamp that an agreement occurred between two identified parties |
| 17:11 |
undata |
I'm done arguing |
| 17:12 |
davout |
lol, where does the spec even mention a second party? |
| 17:12 |
undata |
davout: why are they published? |
| 17:12 |
davout |
lol yes |
| 17:12 |
undata |
... that's not an answer to my question |
| 17:12 |
undata |
why does one publish the signed blobs |
| 17:12 |
undata |
what's the point of that? in human terms? |
| 17:13 |
davout |
umm... to timestamp them |
| 17:13 |
undata |
god you're dumb |
| 17:13 |
undata |
davout: what is the point of publishing a scientific work in a credible journal? |
| 17:14 |
davout |
i think we should've stuck to lighting these jasmine candles :-) |
| 17:15 |
undata |
davout: lest you have to think about anything other than rubbing some ruby together |
| 17:15 |
undata |
the reputation of the orifice matters and is maintained by not shoveling shit out into the public forum |
| 17:18 |
davout |
... |
| 17:20 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8391 @ 0.00049623 = 4.1639 BTC [-] |
| 17:22 |
undata |
davout: surely you understand that the wot quantifies what a deed may provide historicity |
| 17:23 |
undata |
say you and I make an agreement and you fail to execute your side |
| 17:23 |
undata |
I negrate you |
| 17:23 |
undata |
doesn't our agreement being public and with firm verification of identity bolster my claim among peers that you're a knucklehead? |
| 17:33 |
asciilifeform |
davout: the version 4 signature subpacket spec << what do you want to know about it ? |
| 17:33 |
asciilifeform |
davout: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4880 |
| 17:33 |
assbot |
RFC 4880 - OpenPGP Message Format ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAOiOa ) |
| 17:34 |
davout |
asciilifeform: yeah, that's what i was reading, it mentions user ids in the subpackets spec, but i'm unsure whether that includes an actual key fingerprint, i tend to understand that it doesn't |
| |
↖ |
| 17:35 |
davout |
(pretty interesting read btw) |
| 17:35 |
asciilifeform |
davout: nope. key id. |
| 17:36 |
kakobrekla |
any good reason for this ? |
| 17:36 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: none afaik. the standard simply sucks. |
| 17:37 |
kakobrekla |
i was afraid you gonna say that. |
| 17:37 |
davout |
lol |
| 17:37 |
asciilifeform |
'it saves a few bytes' probably sounded like 'good reason' to the authors. |
| 17:38 |
kakobrekla |
nsa only has so much disk space. |
| 17:38 |
asciilifeform |
or, alternatively, like the choice of 'aes' over the stronger but 'slower' 'serpent' cipher, it was merely orders from lizardhitler. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| 17:38 |
davout |
"Implementations SHOULD NOT assume that Key IDs are unique", so let's just include that in the signature packet. derp |
| 17:39 |
asciilifeform |
davout: a little subtler than that. the original assumption was that you would only ever verify sigs from folks you had a proper key party with |
| 17:39 |
asciilifeform |
and hence have a reasonably confident idea of genuine key for. |
| 17:39 |
davout |
which makes sense |
| 17:40 |
asciilifeform |
hence the 'key id' was meant as merely a soft handle to quickly pick out the right pubkey. |
| 17:40 |
kakobrekla |
fuckin key party and assumption of socialization |
| 17:40 |
asciilifeform |
rather than something to resist attack of any kind |
| 17:41 |
asciilifeform |
original pgp was not an apparatus for one-off deals with strangers, but something to use between friends, as i understand. |
| 17:41 |
davout |
and i guess even in the case of a keyid collision that has no impact on actual signature verification |
| 17:41 |
asciilifeform |
davout: correct |
| 17:42 |
asciilifeform |
davout: assuming it was an accidental collision, and that you have not entered a properly, maliciously crafted pubkey into your keychain that it -will- verify with |
| 17:42 |
asciilifeform |
if that makes sense |
| 17:42 |
asciilifeform |
the keychain thing nicely parallels ben_vulpes's discussion re: bitcoind wallets |
| 17:43 |
asciilifeform |
if it seems asinine, it is because it was designed for a certain pattern of use, which does not apply now. |
| 17:43 |
davout |
that doesn't make much sense to me, how would a maliciously crafted pubkey even verify the signature? |
| 17:43 |
asciilifeform |
davout: only if the signature was in fact made with evilkey |
| 17:44 |
asciilifeform |
davout: picture if you were trying to pass a document off as having been signed by X. you generate a key with the correct name, etc. and colliding keyid, then try to pass it off as the genuine article; then, when chumps swallow it, sign with it |
| 17:44 |
asciilifeform |
and naturally the sigs will verify |
| 17:45 |
asciilifeform |
this is considerably harder (in practice, likely impossible) with fp instead of id |
| 17:46 |
asciilifeform |
but rfc4880 does not specify that fp ought to be embedded in sigs. |
| 17:46 |
asciilifeform |
and so they weren't. |
| 17:46 |
asciilifeform |
hence this thread. |
| 17:48 |
davout |
the signature verification would in this case (assuming both keys are in the keyring) yield both a pass and a fail, right? |
| 17:49 |
davout |
;;calc 2^64 |
| 17:49 |
gribble |
Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. |
| 17:49 |
davout |
;;calc 2**64 |
| 17:49 |
gribble |
18446744073709551616 |
| 17:49 |
davout |
that would be the number of distinct keyids, not sure how practically feasible it would be to bruteforce a collision |
| 17:53 |
Apocalyptic |
2**64 is well within reach of a supercomputer |
| 17:53 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35709 @ 0.00050049 = 17.872 BTC [+] |
| 17:55 |
Apocalyptic |
just take the bitcoin network, it performs 2**64 hashes in 60 seconds at current hashrate if I'm not mistaken |
| 17:56 |
davout |
i see |
| 17:56 |
Apocalyptic |
and that's just for a preimage, if you want a collision the birthday paradox will tell you that you need much less than that |
| 17:57 |
ben_vulpes |
<kakobrekla> [] fuckin key party and assumption of socialization << another kakobrekla line worth reposting |
| 17:57 |
davout |
well, if you want to pull off an attack on someone you'll want to get a collision with a specific key id |
| 18:01 |
punkman |
davout, see cooper-pair link, has various PoCs |
| 18:01 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11847 @ 0.00048378 = 5.7313 BTC [-] |
| 18:01 |
davout |
!s cooper-pair |
| 18:01 |
assbot |
0 results for 'cooper-pair' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cooper-pair |
| 18:03 |
Apocalyptic |
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/01/16/obama-sides-with-cameron-in-encryption-fight/ // to paraphrase ascii, mega-lol |
| 18:03 |
assbot |
Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight - Digits - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1CASWeV ) |
| 18:09 |
asciilifeform |
Apocalyptic: 'key escrow' crapolade went out with the first clinton presidency, will probably return with the second. |
| 18:10 |
asciilifeform |
(third) |
| 18:12 |
Apocalyptic |
can't wait |
| 18:16 |
davout |
"sure you can escrow my key, wanna make sure it's mine? just check the keyid" |
| 18:16 |
undata |
asciilifeform: after the next attack they'll ram all kind of laws through around weakining crypto |
| 18:16 |
undata |
*ening |
| 18:17 |
undata |
because terrorists can't find an old copy of gpg? |
| 18:18 |
asciilifeform |
undata: at some point it will be forbidden in usa to sell or even own a computer which can meaningfully run classic gpg |
| 18:19 |
asciilifeform |
this is a considerably less-fantastic scenario than it would have appeared to be in the '90s, because of the 'nintendoization' of computing. gpg simply won't appear in the apple and microshit 'app stores' and thereby vanish |
| 18:19 |
nanotube |
kakobrekla: i have no idea why i keep keyid as a separate column in db either. probably something grandfathered in... |
| 18:20 |
kakobrekla |
:) |
| 18:27 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.0004938 = 18.715 BTC [+] {2} |
| 18:29 |
undata |
asciilifeform: not far-fetched at all |
| 18:40 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9154 @ 0.00048378 = 4.4285 BTC [-] |
| 18:51 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8507 @ 0.00050465 = 4.2931 BTC [+] {3} |
| 18:57 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65131 @ 0.00048038 = 31.2876 BTC [-] {2} |
| 19:06 |
mircea_popescu |
http://36.media.tumblr.com/1cc9a5d0cfe50e3ab506233f9f113a82/tumblr_mksvh7tuk11rl0d0yo1_500.jpg lllllllava lamp |
| 19:06 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1sNeXqI ) |
| 19:08 |
mircea_popescu |
davout everyone can now be a "developer". even idiots. |
| 19:09 |
PeterL |
even me :) |
| 19:09 |
davout |
mircea_popescu: o hey, what are you referring to? |
| 19:10 |
mircea_popescu |
the "o look mom, i made a github commit. it changes the spelling of comments" thing |
| 19:10 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL there's a difference between the innocent and the stupid. |
| 19:10 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22950 @ 0.00050894 = 11.6802 BTC [+] {2} |
| 19:10 |
PeterL |
wait, which am I? |
| 19:10 |
davout |
ah, yea lol, i had a look to see if this chick had any other commits on the project, seems like it's her sole 'contribution' to the whole thing |
| 19:11 |
mircea_popescu |
davout no matter, "core contributor" nao. |
| 19:11 |
mircea_popescu |
whole slew of these, the cleaning lady wants to be "part of the team" nao. |
| 19:11 |
davout |
by this account i'm a core contributor to bitcoin too, i reset testnet once, fuck it |
| 19:11 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL weren't you a biochemist by trade dabbling into code as a hobby recently ? |
| 19:11 |
asciilifeform |
not cleaning lady. demented bomzh who breaks into the office and takes a shit in the coffee pot. |
| 19:11 |
PeterL |
chemist, yes |
| 19:11 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform this is what us cleaning lady does. |
| 19:12 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL so you'd be the innocent. |
| 19:12 |
mircea_popescu |
at least until proof to the contrary. |
| 19:12 |
PeterL |
ok, I'll take that |
| 19:12 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform they don't have cleaning ladies in the classic sense, which is why conde nast is writing memos to the "journos" about keeping the place clean. |
| 19:13 |
mircea_popescu |
apparently nobody heard of a "shut.the.fuck.up.and.hire.cleaning.crew.cheapskates." |
| 19:13 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: what is this. every office park where i live has cleaners. |
| 19:13 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: 100% 'spanish' |
| 19:13 |
mircea_popescu |
same here, but who the fuck knows what they do in the soviet republic of san francisco. |
| 19:14 |
mircea_popescu |
yoga class, probably. |
| 19:15 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla: keyids are evil << yeh davout. stop thinking about short keyids bs. |
| 19:15 |
davout |
well, i was just reading about them in the deedbot spec |
| 19:15 |
davout |
i'll let you read the convo |
| 19:16 |
mircea_popescu |
i just have. |
| 19:16 |
mircea_popescu |
what do you mean gpg doesn't return them ?! |
| 19:16 |
davout |
it does, it doesn't however return fingerprints |
| 19:18 |
mircea_popescu |
ok but then gpg --fingerprint | grep "keid" ? |
| 19:18 |
davout |
that implies you have the key in your keyring |
| 19:18 |
mircea_popescu |
one more reason gpg has to be rewritten i guess. |
| 19:18 |
mircea_popescu |
who the fuck did this i have nfi. |
| 19:19 |
asciilifeform |
everybody here understands difference between how key id and fp are calculated ? |
| 19:19 |
asciilifeform |
and yes, it's retarded |
| 19:19 |
mircea_popescu |
ah it's there. |
| 19:19 |
mircea_popescu |
nah nah. |
| 19:20 |
mircea_popescu |
davout http://pastebin.com/66Cb1kbX |
| 19:20 |
assbot |
$ gpg -v -v --with-fingerprint gpg: Go ahead and type your message ... -----BE - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1sNixkt ) |
| 19:20 |
davout |
asciilifeform: well, keyid is a part of the fpr afaik |
| 19:21 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform keyid is the last 16 chars of the 40 char fignerprint. and then there's an 8 char shit too. neither of these last two are any good, but hey, "usability". crap. |
| 19:22 |
mircea_popescu |
https://evil32.com/examples.html for the innocents reading logs. |
| |
↖ |
| 19:22 |
assbot |
Evil 32: Check Your GPG Fingerprints ... ( http://bit.ly/1sNj3PC ) |
| 19:23 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla: the point is MAPPING is bad << he understands. |
| 19:23 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.0005114 = 4.2702 BTC [+] {2} |
| 19:24 |
davout |
mircea_popescu: try with this guy -> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=bxxZyms9 |
| 19:24 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1sNjDNa ) |
| 19:24 |
Apocalyptic |
mircea, what is your pastebin supposed to show ? |
| 19:24 |
davout |
if you don't have the key in your ring it won't know the fpr |
| 19:24 |
mircea_popescu |
Apocalyptic the fingerprint, penultimate line. |
| 19:25 |
undata |
davout is right |
| 19:25 |
Apocalyptic |
it does show "Primary key fingerprint: 6160 E1CA C8A3 C529 66FD 7699 8A73 6F0E 2FB7 B452" because you have you own key in your keyring obviously |
| 19:25 |
Apocalyptic |
go try it on a system you have no |
| 19:25 |
Apocalyptic |
*not |
| 19:25 |
mircea_popescu |
davout if you don';t have the key you can't verify signatures, dork! |
| 19:25 |
davout |
lol, deedbot isn't supposed to verify sigs amirite |
| 19:25 |
Apocalyptic |
well this was the whole point of the discussion |
| 19:25 |
Apocalyptic |
and according to davout it's not supposed ot verify |
| 19:25 |
undata |
^ this enraged me |
| 19:26 |
* |
undata is open to correction |
| 19:26 |
davout |
i could tell |
| 19:26 |
mircea_popescu |
well apparently it just became required to verify cause otherwise it can't talk to assbot. |
| 19:26 |
mircea_popescu |
accidental spec! |
| 19:27 |
davout |
mircea_popescu: with the fingerprint for a key it could simply do what you said wrt requesting trust data as a json blob from the w.b-a.link thing |
| 19:27 |
davout |
s/for a key/for a sig/ |
| 19:27 |
mircea_popescu |
davout but assbot won't respond unless he queries by fingerprints. |
| 19:27 |
davout |
yea that's the whole problem |
| 19:27 |
mircea_popescu |
IF gpg doesn't put out full fingerprints for verified keys, then gpg is broken |
| 19:28 |
mircea_popescu |
gpg: Signature made Sat 21 Aug 1999 07:04:31 PM ART using DSA key ID 8ACE3E79 |
| 19:28 |
mircea_popescu |
gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found |
| 19:28 |
mircea_popescu |
myeah. |
| 19:28 |
davout |
the crux is 'verified keys', if deedbot doesn't maintain a full keyring at all times it can't pull fingerprints |
| 19:28 |
davout |
this sounds a bit overkill to me |
| 19:28 |
mircea_popescu |
defo the gpg signature model is bad. |
| 19:29 |
mircea_popescu |
feel free to fork and fix the gpg key verification process so it reports fingerpritns properly not wtf it's doing now. |
| 19:29 |
davout |
gpg can't know the fpr for a key it doesn't have, the information isn't part of the signature packet |
| 19:29 |
Apocalyptic |
mircea, note that neither the "-v" nor the "--with-fingerprint" flags are required to get the fingerprint line displayed |
| 19:29 |
mircea_popescu |
who the fuck did thius. |
| 19:30 |
Apocalyptic |
^ I asked myself the same |
| 19:30 |
davout |
see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2015#980997 |
| 19:30 |
assbot |
Logged on 17-01-2015 22:34:54; davout: asciilifeform: yeah, that's what i was reading, it mentions user ids in the subpackets spec, but i'm unsure whether that includes an actual key fingerprint, i tend to understand that it doesn't |
| 19:30 |
* |
mircea_popescu rages |
| 19:31 |
mircea_popescu |
dude rms, you saved 24 bytes aren't you a smart fucking cookie. |
| 19:31 |
mircea_popescu |
davout only possible workaround seems keeping the lordship keys. |
| 19:31 |
PeterL |
would it be hard to maintain a keyring with all us in it? |
| 19:31 |
undata |
no |
| 19:31 |
Apocalyptic |
that's what punkman's bot did afaik |
| 19:31 |
mircea_popescu |
which i guess is not that bad, seeing how it also solves the problem of the untrustworthy pgp-sks etc |
| 19:32 |
davout |
anyway, my point wrt to deedbot is that it's supposed to be used by ppl with L1/L2 trust, it doesn't need to check gpg signatures, so let anyone with +v in -assets use it, do away with the requirement that a keyid belonging to someone in assbot's wot be presented or maliciously hammered into the message |
| 19:32 |
mircea_popescu |
so i guess ima have to modify the spec instead of finishing my "on terrorism' article. |
| 19:32 |
mircea_popescu |
davout how do you propose to query assbot for l1/l2 inclusion ? |
| 19:33 |
davout |
whoever has voice in -assets shall be deemed worthy to notarize |
| 19:33 |
mircea_popescu |
derp. |
| 19:33 |
mircea_popescu |
no, it's not ok to overload voice like that. |
| 19:33 |
undata |
this was my entire rant |
| 19:33 |
davout |
greatly simplifies the problem, don't see too much downside to it, and we're eventually moving to gossipd anyway |
| 19:33 |
mircea_popescu |
i give voice to all the whores, not to mention all sorts of known usg agents |
| 19:33 |
PeterL |
but you would still need keys to verify deed signatures? |
| 19:33 |
undata |
why should gpg exist; irc is apparently all we ever needed |
| 19:33 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL original spec didn't call for that. |
| 19:34 |
davout |
and notary would be connected through asswot's gossipd's node anyway |
| 19:34 |
PeterL |
oh, do deeds even need to be gpg signed? |
| 19:34 |
mircea_popescu |
davout undata gossipd can well be a year or two away. |
| 19:34 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL yes. |
| 19:34 |
undata |
mircea_popescu: I am being facetious, and argued earlier for sig verification |
| 19:34 |
davout |
let whores timestamp some blobs now and then i say |
| 19:34 |
undata |
I'm hacking on something now, but will wait for an updated spec |
| 19:34 |
PeterL |
why sign if you are not verifying? |
| 19:34 |
mircea_popescu |
incoming. |
| 19:35 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00050843 = 5.5419 BTC [-] |
| 19:35 |
davout |
undata: you fail to comprehend that it's not deedbot's job to certify to a third party that the contract is signed by an identified party, gpg already does that |
| 19:35 |
davout |
wrt to your earlier example of me scamming you, anybody can verify i signed the contract by using gpg itself |
| 19:35 |
undata |
davout: its output should be the history of valid deeds, not "that which a rubber stamp has touched" |
| 19:36 |
davout |
why the hell would it need deedbot to testify to that too ? |
| 19:36 |
undata |
god... do the proceedings of court note that a pidgeon shat on the window? |
| 19:36 |
davout |
that didn't parse |
| 19:37 |
davout |
it did derp |
| 19:37 |
undata |
have you ever been to a notary? |
| 19:37 |
davout |
why do you absolutely want to shoehorn your conception of a notary into deedbot? |
| 19:37 |
undata |
do you know what a deed is? |
| 19:38 |
undata |
or why one has it observed by a 3rd party? |
| 19:38 |
undata |
and signed as such |
| 19:38 |
davout |
we don't need Z to witness that X and Y signed a contract together, because any party can and will use GPG |
| 19:38 |
davout |
and properly verify that fact |
| 19:39 |
davout |
why would Z's word add any value to the information GPG outputs? |
| 19:39 |
punkman |
it doesn't really, but it's useful nonetheless |
| 19:39 |
undata |
keeps the published bundles down to a size that is manageable |
| 19:40 |
undata |
keeps it from being filled with useless crud with invalid sigs |
| 19:40 |
davout |
wtf is this size bzns? |
| 19:40 |
undata |
size for hands and eyeballs to verify |
| 19:40 |
Apocalyptic |
<undata> keeps it from being filled with useless crud with invalid sigs << this sounds pretty reasonable |
| 19:40 |
undata |
not disk space |
| 19:41 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00050726 = 7.6596 BTC [-] |
| 19:41 |
punkman |
davout, I'll just say that there were many cases with invalid signatures posted as deeds |
| 19:41 |
mircea_popescu |
http://trilema.com/2015/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets-updated/ |
| 19:41 |
assbot |
[OPEN] Deed system for #bitcoin-assets, updated. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1sNobmP ) |
| 19:42 |
davout |
the whole point here is to let ppl with L2/L1 trust timestamp stuff |
| 19:43 |
davout |
and only them |
| 19:43 |
mircea_popescu |
not and only them. |
| 19:44 |
mircea_popescu |
the point is to let them create and let the whole world trust and be able to verify. |
| 19:44 |
scoopbot |
New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets-updated/ |
| 19:44 |
scoopbot |
New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/what-does-desperation-look-like/ |
| 19:45 |
mircea_popescu |
its point is enacting privilege, not segregation. |
| 19:45 |
davout |
what is privilege if not the differentiation from the un-privileged? |
| 19:46 |
undata |
mircea_popescu: I read the payment as coming from the party wanting a signature, not the bot? |
| 19:46 |
undata |
or no |
| 19:46 |
undata |
seems fair to me; pay per use |
| 19:46 |
mircea_popescu |
undata no, payment comes from teh boty. |
| 19:46 |
undata |
whyssat? |
| 19:47 |
mircea_popescu |
but dun worry about it, i seeded the prev one an' ill seed this one too. |
| 19:47 |
undata |
k |
| 19:48 |
mircea_popescu |
davout it gotta be one way. if there's four people and they fuck in two subsets of twos, that's segregation. if there's one that fucks all other three but the rest only jack off, that's privilege. |
| 19:49 |
davout |
i see |
| 19:50 |
mircea_popescu |
is "and pushes it to public repositories" a point of contention ? |
| 19:51 |
PeterL |
wouldn't keys already be public when registering with assbot? |
| 19:51 |
davout |
mircea_popescu: well, now the bot needs a key too :-) |
| 19:51 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL idea kinda is to make a further record of people's sigs, help guard them against mitm and other nefariousness. but as davout points out, now the bot needs a key. |
| 19:52 |
PeterL |
did it not have a key before? |
| 19:52 |
mircea_popescu |
which makes shit more complicated. however, it also makes shit perhaps better defensible ? i dunno. |
| 19:52 |
mircea_popescu |
nah. |
| 19:52 |
davout |
i don't really see a use for that |
| 19:53 |
davout |
and if the signature on the blob is required only for access control, maybe it's be better to leverage asswot's functionality directly |
| 19:54 |
mircea_popescu |
davout nah, it's required for inclusion in bthe actual deed. |
| 19:54 |
davout |
as in 'wanna timestamp some stuff? fine, verify with and otp" |
| 19:54 |
mircea_popescu |
for later ppl to be able to verify at home. |
| 19:58 |
davout |
say i want to timestamp a contract i made with someone also in the L2 group as nested clearsigns, i doesn't really matter which signature is checked by deedbot, right? |
| 19:58 |
davout |
nah, scratch that |
| 19:59 |
mircea_popescu |
it only checks outer. |
| 19:59 |
davout |
yeah well, i wanted to point out that it didn't really prevent anyone from checking the inner sig at home |
| 20:00 |
davout |
i just fail to see a good reason to make the signatures mandatory, outside of access control that is |
| 20:01 |
mircea_popescu |
so that someone in 3714, with nothing but an inscription of deedbot's deeds, can verify our contracts just as well as we can. |
| 20:01 |
mircea_popescu |
this is the point of notarization : making the acts of men equal to the acts of god. |
| 20:02 |
asciilifeform |
unless key factored <= 3714 |
| 20:02 |
asciilifeform |
not god quite yet. |
| 20:02 |
davout |
maybe we'll want to timestamp something else than contracts is what i'm thinking |
| 20:02 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform factorization trivially defeated by better key putting it into record :( |
| 20:03 |
mircea_popescu |
:) i mean |
| 20:03 |
asciilifeform |
gotta be alive to upgrade keys |
| 20:03 |
asciilifeform |
ozymandias - won't. |
| 20:03 |
PeterL |
you can timestamp whatever you want, as long as gpg signed first |
| 20:04 |
davout |
that's how is spec'd yes :-) |
| 20:05 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform no but suppose your 4kb key is factorized. this matter is discovered by joe on june 19th, 3211. he signs, with his 64kb key, a note saying so. |
| 20:06 |
mircea_popescu |
now, come 3714, it will be clear that uses ulterior to 3211 are null. but it will also be clear that uses prior to say, 3200 will still hold |
| 20:06 |
mircea_popescu |
davout that's how it goes, why not. |
| 20:06 |
asciilifeform |
well yes, in that case joe is, so to speak, trimming the weeds on your monument. |
| 20:07 |
mircea_popescu |
yup |
| 20:08 |
davout |
asciilifeform: also if you see a message signed with your key, and timestamped 200 years after your first timestamped message you can reasonably assumed it's been broken |
| 20:08 |
asciilifeform |
davout: lol, but what kind of idiot would do that |
| 20:09 |
davout |
say i timestamp sth in 2014 |
| 20:09 |
davout |
any timestamping after 2114 is null and void, problem solves itself |
| 20:10 |
PeterL |
I don't suppose people pass keys down to their heirs? |
| 20:11 |
undata |
davout: this business of making assumptions is not how it's done... |
| 20:12 |
davout |
PeterL: well, sign something to this effect, otherwise timestamps are inherently suspicious, esp. if factorization is possible given state of current technology |
| 20:12 |
davout |
*further timestamps |
| 20:12 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.00050035 = 25.5179 BTC [-] {2} |
| 20:13 |
davout |
undata: which assumption are you referring to? |
| 20:16 |
kakobrekla |
you are suppose to assume that |
| 20:19 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.125 = 1.375 BTC [-] |
| 20:30 |
mircea_popescu |
<PeterL> I don't suppose people pass keys down to their heirs? << people well might. |
| 20:30 |
mircea_popescu |
what exactly is inheritance if not this, fundamentally, inheriting father's FIRM. ie, signature. |
| 20:32 |
asciilifeform |
nope. |
| 20:32 |
asciilifeform |
in the case of pgp key, it's rather like, in the worst case, time travel. |
| 20:33 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00050949 = 8.8651 BTC [+] {3} |
| 20:33 |
asciilifeform |
dead pope's seal is broken for a reason. |
| 20:33 |
asciilifeform |
granted, not everyone is a pope. |
| 20:34 |
undata |
asciilifeform: still seems father would sign a public statement granting his possessions to a son |
| 20:34 |
mircea_popescu |
a complicated matter. |
| 20:34 |
asciilifeform |
sure. but he does not give him the ability to retroactively emulate him |
| 20:34 |
undata |
asciilifeform: I was agreeing :) |
| 20:34 |
asciilifeform |
father might want to bind the son into some sort of 'dead hand' arrangement |
| 20:35 |
mircea_popescu |
father generally does, for "son's own good". |
| 20:41 |
asciilifeform |
if son inherits signature, he can possibly unbind himself. |
| 20:42 |
asciilifeform |
or worse |
| 20:42 |
asciilifeform |
(crap all over father's posthumous good name by forging past xxxxx) |
| 20:42 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26898 @ 0.00049826 = 13.4022 BTC [-] |
| 20:42 |
mircea_popescu |
!up BayAreaCoins |
| 20:42 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform you can't forge past because you can' register old deeds. |
| 20:42 |
mircea_popescu |
and you can retire a key any time you feel like. |
| 20:43 |
asciilifeform |
this assumes a universally agreed upon timestamp mechanism, yes. |
| 20:43 |
asciilifeform |
if there isn't one - can forge. |
| 20:45 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform yes, the notary blockchain stamping mechanism. |
| 20:45 |
mircea_popescu |
quite universal. |
| 20:48 |
kakobrekla |
!s dual ec drbg |
| 20:48 |
assbot |
3 results for 'dual ec drbg' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dual+ec+drbg |
| |
~ 37 minutes ~ |
| 21:25 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6902 @ 0.00049826 = 3.439 BTC [-] |
| 21:35 |
undata |
mircea_popescu: I get "No data" from the link in your spec article, and when I substitute my key's fingerprint |
| 21:35 |
scoopbot |
New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/on-terrorism/ |
| 21:39 |
mircea_popescu |
undata lessee |
| 21:40 |
mircea_popescu |
w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4/json |
| 21:40 |
mircea_popescu |
http://w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4/json |
| 21:40 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1yrC7W6 ) |
| 21:40 |
mircea_popescu |
i r see json. |
| 21:42 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61600 @ 0.0005047 = 31.0895 BTC [+] {3} |
| 21:43 |
undata |
mircea_popescu: ah right, two parameters makes sense; the article has one |
| 21:43 |
undata |
the spec intends assbots fingerprint is one param? |
| 21:43 |
mircea_popescu |
you're supposed to replace the other one with the key you're looking for |
| 21:44 |
undata |
mircea_popescu: ty |
| 21:58 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: re: 'terrorism' article: where would you place osman empire on the 'law/terror' map? |
| 22:09 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67400 @ 0.00048005 = 32.3554 BTC [-] {3} |
| 22:12 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00047837 = 7.4626 BTC [-] |
| 22:25 |
cazalla |
rate Rozal -3 threatened to rate me -10 because he doesn't understand how the WoT actually works, see http://pastebin.com/PABNbsex for conversation, offered to then pay me to remove the -1 earning him a -3 |
| 22:25 |
assbot |
<Rozal> h <Rozal> hi <Rozal> i hate people who abuse the rating system <Rozal - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1yb2vBD ) |
| 22:26 |
cazalla |
ah, clearly i gots to learn the new assbot rules, been a little busy |
| 22:26 |
kakobrekla |
put ! in front |
| 22:26 |
cazalla |
oh, that's right :) all good, did it in pm now |
| 22:26 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51166 @ 0.00047822 = 24.4686 BTC [-] {2} |
| 22:31 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-snowden-docs-indicate-scope-of-nsa-preparations-for-cyber-battle-a-1013409.html << arguably the first genuinely interesting snowdenism. with actual crapware samples, protocol docs. |
| 22:31 |
assbot |
New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle - SPIEGEL ONLINE ... ( http://bit.ly/1yb3amC ) |
| 22:31 |
asciilifeform |
and a few lists of pwned hardware. |
| 22:43 |
decimation |
asciilifeform: one wonders how much of this kind of thing he has left in 'reserve' |
| 22:43 |
PeterL |
and is it just going to get juicier as time goes on? |
| 22:45 |
decimation |
actually the 'bios erasure' thing calls to mind this news story back in 2013 |
| 22:45 |
decimation |
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/16/nsa_alleges_bios_plot_to_destroy_pcs/ |
| 22:45 |
assbot |
NSA alleges 'BIOS plot to destroy PCs' • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1yb55rb ) |
| 22:45 |
asciilifeform |
erasure's a snore. |
| 22:45 |
asciilifeform |
any idiot can erase. |
| 22:48 |
decimation |
asciilifeform: right, but it is amusing to look at the sudden panic over 'evil foreign erasure virus' when that's exactly what they have been working on (apparently) |
| 23:00 |
decimation |
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/16/obama_and_cameron_cybersecurity_partnership/ < "The President acknowledged concerns that encryption technology may make intelligence-gathering efforts more difficult, saying, "If we get into a situation which the technologies do not allow us at all to track somebody we're confident is a terrorist … and despite knowing that information, despite having a phone number or a social-media address |
| 23:00 |
assbot |
Prez Obama snubs UK PM's tough anti-encryption crusade at White House meet • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/15lD4SF ) |
| 23:00 |
decimation |
or email address, that we can't penetrate that, that's a problem."" |
| 23:07 |
asciilifeform |
also expect to read volumes in the next few weeks in crapmedia re: the 'openssh backdoor' |
| 23:08 |
asciilifeform |
(which is actually a pedestrian doctored build) |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
| 23:27 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform quite lawful. |
| 23:27 |
mircea_popescu |
it prevented the middle east issues for well over 5 centuries. |
| 23:28 |
mircea_popescu |
thus accomplishing more than western europe + north america, by a damned sight. |
| 23:28 |
asciilifeform |
wai wat |
| 23:28 |
mircea_popescu |
yeah. |
| 23:28 |
mircea_popescu |
whenever people like taleb think of peace in their homeland, |
| 23:29 |
mircea_popescu |
they're really thinking of something that was utopia pre and probably post osmanli. |
| 23:29 |
asciilifeform |
aha that |
| 23:29 |
asciilifeform |
forgot, for a min, what the original question was |
| 23:29 |
asciilifeform |
a little mindfuck. |
| 23:29 |
mircea_popescu |
osmanlı |
| 23:29 |
asciilifeform |
(bios diddlers kept the piece in mid. east...) |
| 23:29 |
mircea_popescu |
lol |
| 23:29 |
asciilifeform |
*peace |
| 23:30 |
mircea_popescu |
piece even better |
| 23:30 |
* |
asciilifeform has been at the console for too long, he thought |
| 23:31 |
* |
asciilifeform spend ~2h today haggling with a door-to-door flunkie from his isp, which recently hauled in extra fiber & is trying to upsell folks |
| 23:32 |
mircea_popescu |
so how much did you make haggling ? |
| 23:32 |
asciilifeform |
zip. sc4mz0rz. |
| 23:32 |
* |
undata is in progress haggling a new computer out of lenovo |
| 23:32 |
asciilifeform |
all the 'gr34t n3w d34lzz' were for buyers of tv & phone service. |
| 23:32 |
mircea_popescu |
cazalla you aware that pastie ends in sex ? |
| 23:32 |
decimation |
asciilifeform: verizon 'fios'? |
| 23:32 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: aha. the very same |
| 23:32 |
undata |
asciilifeform: I'd not mind if you hurried up making a computer that works for me :D |
| 23:32 |
asciilifeform |
ubiquitous on u.s. east coast |
| 23:33 |
decimation |
did you ask him who had to pay for the backup UPS |
| 23:33 |
asciilifeform |
which ups |
| 23:33 |
asciilifeform |
there's two, theirs & yours |
| 23:33 |
cazalla |
mircea_popescu, anything that's good, does |
| 23:33 |
decimation |
my understanding is that verzion 'gives' you an ups that you must maintain |
| 23:33 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: the customer-ended one comes with the box |
| 23:33 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
| 23:33 |
decimation |
right, but who replaces the inevitable dead battery? |
| 23:33 |
asciilifeform |
the subscriber |
| 23:34 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57750 @ 0.0004784 = 27.6276 BTC [+] {2} |
| 23:34 |
decimation |
in the past, with copper, this was the phone company's responsibility |
| 23:34 |
asciilifeform |
when i got the building there wasn't even a battery. |
| 23:34 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: aha because there was no battery on subscriber premises in the copper era. unless he owned one. |
| 23:34 |
decimation |
precisely |
| 23:34 |
asciilifeform |
for what it's worth, i have the damned thing plugged into a monster 'liebert' doubleconverter along with the rest of the orchestra. |
| 23:35 |
mircea_popescu |
uh i never had this ? wut are you talking about ?! |
| 23:35 |
decimation |
I've heard that once verzion runs fiber to your premises, they typically take the time to rip out the old copper wire |
| 23:35 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: large telco where i live. |
| 23:35 |
mircea_popescu |
ok but what battery ? |
| 23:35 |
decimation |
because they don't want to be held to 'common carrier' standards of common access and maintenance |
| 23:35 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: aha. there was a rat's nest of mangled copper when i got to it. |
| 23:36 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: the particular telco's optical terminal chest comes with a battery. and lusers whine interminably that 'why do i have to replace this battery every year, i w4ntz fr3333 stuff' |
| 23:36 |
mircea_popescu |
cazalla eh, i'd say let the noob be. |
| 23:36 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform this is weird. in romania they keep the end battery on the pole next to you |
| 23:36 |
mircea_popescu |
it doesn't have to be ON THE EXACT END |
| 23:37 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: here the pole also has a battery, for the telco routers. but the house optical chest has another. this is actually on account of an ancient law that proclaims that voice telephony must work during mains outages |
| 23:37 |
mircea_popescu |
and it's still illegal to fuck with the copper in yurp. |
| 23:37 |
decimation |
in the past, the copper wires were 'powered' by the telephone company in its central office |
| 23:37 |
mircea_popescu |
uh... voice over fiber ?! |
| 23:37 |
asciilifeform |
aha. for chumps. |
| 23:37 |
mircea_popescu |
lmao ok |
| 23:37 |
cazalla |
mircea_popescu, so i should just be more accepting of this idiocy? http://pastebin.com/iuwXWH1s |
| 23:37 |
assbot |
<Rozal> h <Rozal> hi <Rozal> i hate people who abuse the rating system <Rozal - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQlDZ4 ) |
| 23:37 |
asciilifeform |
well, for folks who still want land line |
| 23:38 |
asciilifeform |
once you switch to the opticals here, they - as decimation pointed out in this and the last 3 threads on the subject - tear out your copper. |
| 23:38 |
mircea_popescu |
cazalla i skimmed it. dude's begging you and errything. he's nobody i heard of, prolly some noob. |
| 23:38 |
mircea_popescu |
imo not wrth the bullets. |
| 23:38 |
cazalla |
but he has so many ratings from otc from all his $5 buys! |
| 23:38 |
decimation |
not for any technical reason, but because of the assorted pile of usg policy & requirements that apply to 'common carrier' services like telephone |
| 23:39 |
mircea_popescu |
let ppls live |
| 23:39 |
cazalla |
anyway, he came looking for me, not me him, just as easy to neg rate him and move on with it |
| 23:39 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation imo destroying the copper infrastructure is even dumber than destroying the family infrastructure. |
| 23:39 |
mircea_popescu |
transvestites aren't worth it. |
| 23:39 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: on account of how it was built, it is tremendously expensive to maintain. |
| 23:39 |
* |
asciilifeform digs for thread |
| 23:40 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00047726 = 20.8801 BTC [-] {2} |
| 23:40 |
mircea_popescu |
uh. |
| 23:40 |
mircea_popescu |
maintain copper ?! |
| 23:40 |
mircea_popescu |
which alternative universe is this! |
| 23:40 |
asciilifeform |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-05-2014#656215 and below |
| 23:40 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-05-2014 21:22:05; asciilifeform: copper is expensive - not merely the metal, but maintenance - keeping water out of the cable ducts, etc. the telcos would hurry to be rid of it even the removal did not speed the arrival of arsenet. |
| 23:41 |
mircea_popescu |
im pretty sure most landline infrastructure in eastern europe has never been maintained in any sense since at least 1985 |
| 23:41 |
mircea_popescu |
think ny waterworks. |
| 23:42 |
asciilifeform |
funnily enough, ny land lines perished in a massive flood a few yrs ago. |
| 23:42 |
asciilifeform |
mostly replaced with monopoly fiber. |
| 23:43 |
mircea_popescu |
was that the one when they drenched the vaults ? lost ~10 trn worth of old paper ? |
| 23:43 |
asciilifeform |
the same. |
| 23:43 |
decimation |
re: family infrastructure: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/22/less-than-half-of-u-s-kids-today-live-in-a-traditional-family/ |
| 23:43 |
assbot |
Less than half of U.S. kids today live in a ‘traditional’ family | Pew Research Center ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQn0H6 ) |
| 23:44 |
decimation |
asciilifeform: actually I thought there were areas where they 'gave up' and decided not to rebuild any phone system |
| 23:44 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: if this is so, it is contrary to the ancient laws. |
| 23:44 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation i doubt they would meet my definition. things like "every boy under 16 must have 4 acres of forested hillside and a dog" |
| 23:44 |
asciilifeform |
in usa, telco is mandatory. |
| 23:45 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform iirc it's one of those where existence is mandatory but no-one's responsibility. so... |
| 23:45 |
asciilifeform |
point is, most of the remaining copper could vanish overnight, and not one in ten people will notice. |
| 23:45 |
asciilifeform |
everyone is using mobiles. |
| 23:45 |
decimation |
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/8/4308462/verizon-drops-traditional-telephone-service-after-hurricane-sandy-damage |
| 23:45 |
assbot |
Disaster, meet opportunity: Verizon's plan to push wireless on copper landline customers | The Verge ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQnsFx ) |
| 23:46 |
mircea_popescu |
heh. |
| 23:46 |
asciilifeform |
it so happens that in usa, a landline phone is a spam magnet. |
| 23:46 |
decimation |
asciilifeform: there are at least two main reasons for this: 1.) it is illegal to 'telemarket' to mobile phones and 2.) landlines are billed at outrageous rates |
| 23:46 |
mircea_popescu |
"opportunity". anyone here seen les trotillards ? |
| 23:46 |
asciilifeform |
whereas a wireless handset, most of the time, is not |
| 23:46 |
mircea_popescu |
1950s film. |
| 23:46 |
* |
asciilifeform does not keep a landline |
| 23:47 |
* |
decimation had a landline for years, became enraged that a $2 per month service became $40 after taxes & fees |
| 23:47 |
mircea_popescu |
"famine is a disaster that opens the door to opportunity : you can swallow knots!" |
| 23:48 |
decimation |
!up sinetek |
| 23:48 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11444 @ 0.00047709 = 5.4598 BTC [-] |
| 23:50 |
mircea_popescu |
http://36.media.tumblr.com/769eacecb4e2f3ef24158d768aea710f/tumblr_mixnuyf1yc1rigqazo1_500.jpg |
| 23:50 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1IQonWs ) |
| 23:50 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35661.pdf << the document concerning specific doctored firmware |
| |
↖ |
| 23:50 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1IQotx8 ) |
| 23:51 |
decimation |
\me wonders if lizzard hitler's purpose with these releases is simply to distribute digital contraband for later reckoning |
| 23:51 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35676.pdf << data exfiltration protocol implementation guide |
| 23:51 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1IQoMrR ) |
| 23:51 |
asciilifeform |
^ nazi ssl |
| 23:52 |
asciilifeform |
the rest can be safely skipped, mostly snore. |
| 23:52 |
mircea_popescu |
exfiltration protocol / |
| 23:52 |
mircea_popescu |
who the fuck woud be stupid enough to use a protocol for this job ?! |
| 23:52 |
mircea_popescu |
"virus protocol" |
| 23:53 |
asciilifeform |
what's funny. any good crapware artist has 'protocol' - as in, what order to put the bits in over the wire |
| 23:53 |
mircea_popescu |
yes. his. |
| 23:53 |
mircea_popescu |
he's not using yours. |
| 23:53 |
asciilifeform |
these folks have their own |
| 23:53 |
mircea_popescu |
that's actually the difference between artist and script kiddie. |
| 23:54 |
mircea_popescu |
yes, these folks are script kiddies. |
| 23:54 |
mircea_popescu |
that's basically the long and the short of it. nsa = national scriptkiddie association. a glorified derp club. |
| 23:54 |
asciilifeform |
actually reminds me more of microshit |
| 23:54 |
asciilifeform |
very similar flavour of product |
| 23:54 |
kakobrekla |
skriptkiddies in your gpg sigs messing with your keyid. |
| 23:55 |
decimation |
asciilifeform: what about the meta-nsa part? |
| 23:55 |
mircea_popescu |
davout: Apocalyptic: RFC 5.2.2 sez a signature packet contains "Eight-octet Key ID of signer" << seriously in shock/denial about this. |
| 23:55 |
mircea_popescu |
who the fucking fuck was dumb enough! |
| 23:55 |
mircea_popescu |
"oh we got fingerprints let's not use them" |
| 23:56 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00047677 = 2.7176 BTC [-] |
| 23:56 |
PeterL |
might as well put their initials instead of signing their name |
| 23:57 |
mircea_popescu |
you know ? |
| 23:57 |
decimation |
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/17/vc_investment_hits_dotcom_boom_levels/ << annual silly-con valley vc funding is less than a single whatsapp |
| 23:57 |
assbot |
Venture Capital investment in Silicon Valley hits dot-com boom levels • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQpMME ) |
| 23:57 |
mircea_popescu |
in a fucking rfc ? /me rants and raves |
| 23:57 |
mircea_popescu |
decimation yes but a single watsapp "could buy all of russia". |
| 23:57 |
PeterL |
let me sign this important legal documet: "X" |
| 23:58 |
mircea_popescu |
PeterL no, that's not right. |
| 23:58 |
mircea_popescu |
;;calc 2**24 |
| 23:58 |
gribble |
16777216 |
| 23:58 |
mircea_popescu |
there's 16mn people that could all be the same keyid. |
| 23:58 |
PeterL |
yeah, I know it is not quite the same thing |
| 23:58 |
mircea_popescu |
so initials moar like it |
| 23:58 |
mircea_popescu |
i guess most initial combos have about 10ish mn possible representatives. |
| 23:59 |
mircea_popescu |
on the grounds that |
| 23:59 |
mircea_popescu |
;;calc 7.5*10**9 / 27 / 27 |
| 23:59 |
gribble |
10288065.8436 |