#trilema | 2019-06-23

this is exactly cosubstantial with the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919401 inquiry : "reading everything aforehand" as a strategy is just as dysfunctional as any other idealism aka premature optimization. there's a fucking reason republican doctrine is "do it by hand first, automate later, and those parts that actually need it and benefit from it, rather than randomly and abstractly like the pantsuit do".

02:47

Logged on 2019-06-22 21:28 trinque: or is this "in six years time we'll have systems that work"

02:50

because the republic's a practice, not a "narrative" aka daydream. fundamentally, what distinguishes us from the github hipster / foss moron / entire collected pile of avortons looking for their abortion from "the bay area" & portland to eudemocracia and beyond is that we don't read on the first pass, BUT ON THE SEC

02:50

OND.

02:51

whereas usg.blue reads not-at-all, never ever no matter what ; and usg.red reads always-aforehand. both of these idiocies, equally idiotic as they find themselves, are therefore always found in some uneasy truce. but you can't properly notate "read on 2nd pass" as "didn't read" or "won't read".

02:55

and so no, what worries me isn't that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919296 ; what worries me is htat the last item in http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22trinque.org%22 is from 2018, and that trinque.org doesn't load today like deedbot.org didn't load yest, when i wanted to check the helpfile and ended up loading it from archive.is ;

02:55

Logged on 2019-06-22 18:07 trinque: I noticed that not a soul read the scripts that bootstrap cuntoo

02:57

what worries me is this approach whereby a) things tend to be discussed in response to some kind of prodding, and b) while that feeling lasts, only to c) fall back into an eerie silence within a few hours or maybe days, for WEEKS AND WEEKS AND MONTHS AND YEARS AT A TIME!!!

02:58

rather than in the normal, and correct manner in which things are discussed, as they are noticed, to get to their bottom, which is then gotten to and marked as such and things move on, with the bottom in question an ever-reliable reference always at the ready for having been correctly found, and always visible just under the skin of things, for having been correctly found.

02:59

and this paroxistic-avoidant approach worries me universally, phf is stuck in the exact same rut, for instance. i have never in my life seen this approach to things work. not once, not FUCKING ONCE, and this is all the more indicative as it's one of the most commonly deployed broken strategies.

~ 23 minutes ~

03:22

re reading of stuff I guess there is also the difference between one reading and full load-in-the-head; it struck me that people would want others to do more load-in-the-head of what they produce so as to get finer-detail feedback

03:24

this is always a crapshoot.

03:24

i mean, i would also like people to do more loading-into-head of whatever their native language is, so i could get better movies, music lyrics and music videos, books, blog articles and everything else.

03:24

but... what can you do. it's a crapshoot, you know this going in.

03:25

in any case the "i am of the republic, i will now base my self worth on the qty and amt of loading-in-head my works get" is, as of yet, a recipe for eternal sadness. this is a new rather than old republic.

03:25

what I don't understand is why not ask specifically if one would like detailed feedback on some bit/part they struggle with

03:27

oh, I don't know if it's re self-worth; rather interpreting the "not fully load-in-head" as "not read"

03:27

diana_coman, this is like slavegirl saying "i don;'t understand why not ask detailedly for tongue movements and assorted shenanigans". she gets punished if jher bj is subpar because i don't have the fucking patience to micromanage blowjobs. it'd be like writing the book im about to read, if i wrote it what sorta discovery is this!

03:28

uhm, there seems to be something out of sync in there; perhaps you are right and the problem is one of wrongly-attached self-worth though I did not see it that way

03:29

in which case yes, what specific ask

03:29

I rather saw it as "can't do this alone, need help but won't ask because it should come naturally"

03:41

not sure that's all that different

03:54

mircea_popescu: hm; to make it clear what I mean re loading-in-head - arguably if I had fully loaded-in-head the scripts, I should have found http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901339 myself, right?

03:54

Logged on 2019-03-10 21:39 trinque: scripts/make_portage_tree.sh << line 14, I do string-munging on the path that's specific to my own filesystem layout

~ 43 minutes ~

04:38

diana_coman, i suppose in a very theoretical, idealized sense. in practice however... what are we to conclude on the basis of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-04#1884426 ? that neither i (nor anyone else here for that matter) had diffraction loaded in head ? the wave model of energy ? what exactly ?

04:38

Logged on 2019-01-04 17:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck didn't i think of that.

04:38

this pov is even voiced, but always in a chiding tone in training environments. it has its place there, but i dunno how practicable it is in the general.

04:38

there's this lengthy list of examples of people coming to grief through the process of "that mp so dumb, dun even know how to horseride a shirt" or w/e such.

04:41

responsibility is a fine and great thing indeed ; but it's not mechanizable, as part and parcel of why we have a wot as it is rather than as the lulzentreprise everyone else imagines it to be.

04:49

diana_coman, more practically, are we running cuntoo latest or what is the situation there ?

04:49

did i miss some articles ?

~ 50 minutes ~

05:40

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919220 <-- well, I can't in all good faith sign and publish the item before I understand it well enough to maintain it myself -- for the same money, I could just claim "use the version on shithub" and be done with that. I agree 100% that I should do small regular updates, but in this case breaking the thing into its constituent parts is the challenge, and "hunchentoot arc

05:40

Logged on 2019-06-22 13:57 mircea_popescu: the sort of "before publishing, I'm making sure" idiocy is exactly, but i do mean exactly, of the same substance as the fat girl's "this donut has no calories". it uses the exact same parts of the brain in the exact same way.

05:40

hitecture" is actually next blogpost in the works.

05:40

aite.

05:41

there's no rule you must publish the signed thing. you can publish 11 drafts before signing, what of it.

05:41

you also can publish on your own fucking schedule, just don't hang yourself in your own petard.

05:44

but more specifically: the code I've stolen works so far, I have it serving an instance of thetarpit plus a somewhat-working experiment doing dynamic stuff PHP-style. but there's a lotta complexity in the work distribution code that has me going "wtf". perhaps one good task would be to implement a worker-pool thing, similarly to what apache has.

05:45

how do you work, do you have this codepile loaded up in some sort of management interface ? does it permit adnotation ?

05:46

for the moment all my notes are in a text file that's going to grow into a blogpost as soon as it has a head and a tail

05:48

line-per-line annotation sounds like a neat idea, but I don't have anything like that going

05:50

well, you know like suppose hutchentoot was http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/

05:51

now admire what i can do : http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/#selection-13.14-37.22 << this part is boring ; http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/#selection-41.0-57.15 << this part is a quote ; http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/#selection-61.0-65.37 << this part is about bitcoin ; http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/#selection-65.37-89.175 << i have no fucking idea wtf this is.

05:51

can you do this in some manner ? so people can follow your work if they can be arsed to import the same ide / cms ? (here, it's a bit of js, and a browser, that entire stack)

05:52

and so some other guy can go "that nfi part is just a discussion of so and so, like this" and so on ?

05:53

because it occurs to me that ~if~ you publish your codebase you're working on, and if your blog works correctly in the mp-wp sense, then therefore you get all this for free, just make a metapost.

05:53

or alternatively, there's all sorta greatness, phf has a perfectly workable code metadiscussion system on btcbase, jurov had a ver yworkable one for earlier trb work and so fucking on.

05:54

oh I see. I could do something like that, as in http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08b-feedbot-ii.html#selection-150.0-167.116 . but IMHO the btcbase referencing style makes more sense for code

05:54

this "here i sit, my eyes intelligent, my expression absent" situation's for the birds.

05:54

spyked, i have no stylistical qualms, it's just an example of phisiology. use whatever works best, sure.

05:55

anyway, i shall bbl.

06:02

this makes perfect sense, I'ma do that for my next code-report.

~ 2 hours 7 minutes ~

08:09

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919625 - s.mg test is running proto-cuntoo (non-musltronic) so not latest, no; there was this http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-27#1875228 and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901069 ; as long as there is the CS dependency still on server, a move to static & musltronic only is also likely to be a lot of work.

08:09

Logged on 2019-06-23 08:49 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, more practically, are we running cuntoo latest or what is the situation there ?

08:09

Logged on 2018-11-27 18:11 diana_coman: trinque, that looks great; if I understand correctly, the archive there contains the means to a. install cuntoo b. make the genesis of cuntoo/portage that could in principle be used to move an existing gentoo to cuntoo; is this correct?

08:09

Logged on 2019-03-09 22:45 trinque: the remainder of work here is resolving this issue (I have not had) with paths, after which we can start producing ebuilds for novel republican work atop the genesis.

08:11

so far other parts took priority (smg comms and client) but at least my understanding was that there is work being done further on cuntoo, I had no idea that it was stuck waiting on more intensive use or something

08:24

well, that's what i thought as well.

08:28

diana_coman, but basically, it's running the same thing from 2018 ; and the reason it doesnt move is that a) we couldn't give less of a shit about ebuilds while b) we can't easily change the pile of dependencies to live with musl and so yet haven't.

08:32

anyway, seems in the ripe silence of lack of activty all sorta things grew disjointed an' out of sync.

08:32

always a nice discovery to make.

08:40

quite.

~ 4 hours 58 minutes ~

13:39

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919593 << perhaps "not read" was overkill on my part. apologies to lobbes and hanbot

13:39

Logged on 2019-06-23 00:03 lobbes: however on second run-through I indeed went back to read the scripts in tandem with the gentoo handbook (so as to actually understand what was going on) and produced a bootable genesis that verified >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/

13:41

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919603 << for my part, this directly correlates to irl rope-pushing without which I wouldn't have what on which to type. this is perhaps disqualifying, and I'll leave that for others to say.

13:41

Logged on 2019-06-23 06:57 mircea_popescu: what worries me is this approach whereby a) things tend to be discussed in response to some kind of prodding, and b) while that feeling lasts, only to c) fall back into an eerie silence within a few hours or maybe days, for WEEKS AND WEEKS AND MONTHS AND YEARS AT A TIME!!!

13:41

it's not disqualifying on its own, but why does it correlate ?

13:45

broadly, because I haven't yet extracted enough of the inflationary fruits of the former into coin.

13:45

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919601 << hosted on the box BingoBoingo swapped IP, will get it updated

13:45

Logged on 2019-06-23 06:55 mircea_popescu: and so no, what worries me isn't that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919296 ; what worries me is htat the last item in http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22trinque.org%22 is from 2018, and that trinque.org doesn't load today like deedbot.org didn't load yest, when i wanted to check the helpfile and ended up loading it from archive.is ;

13:46

yes but look, is the idea here that for the past whatever, 4-5 months you have been ~so busy~ that not only you had no time to say things about your work on gentoo, but also somehow ended up isolated into yourself among sadnesses about how nobody reads and such ?

13:46

obviously, on some level, there's only so many hours in the day, whether one works or doesn't, still there's a finite time.

13:47

but is there absolutely no more to it ?

13:56

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914461 << this wasn't a throwaway comment, nor was it an insult to anybody. lords, or simply strapping dudes looking to score, better be holding coin at the end of the day.

13:56

Logged on 2019-05-17 23:17 trinque: republic is scant of profit centers

13:57

quite.

13:57

the cumulative work on gentoo was wasted cycles if portage is undesired, as most of the work was around capturing portage in a given state

13:58

that's not anyone's problem but mine, but pointing at it illustrates what I'd like to avoid repeating

13:58

trinque, wouldja hang on a minute here ?

13:58

the point was to get it in a ~state~. something to start actual decrufting work from. portage itself is mostly a raft for navigating the phenomenology of fosstardation

13:58

what it does is, give some measure of anti-friability to the everchange.

13:59

neh ?

13:59

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919413 << indeed

13:59

Logged on 2019-06-22 21:34 trinque: my intent here has been to stablize the workbench and then make a *hard* break with the whole stack

14:00

right. so portage might be the pipe that got you your galon of linux. but that is what you wanted -- not the faucet, but the galon.

14:00

whole fucking interest for us here is to do ~something~ (not entirely known what exactly yet) so that we... don't fucking need portage ever again.

14:00

or any thing like it.

14:08

we agree. I contend that folks are going to have to build e.g. v, gnat, in order to move forward, which is why I'm asking for ebuilds

14:09

it's a call for a proper camp, not a settlement

14:14

*

trinque brb

~ 30 minutes ~

14:45

feedbot

http://bvt-trace.net/2019/06/unrolled-assembly-squaring/ << bvt's backtrace -- Unrolled x86_64 Assembly Squaring for Ch. 12 FFA

~ 49 minutes ~

15:35

lobbes

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919658 << naw, I took no personal offense. Only pointing out that I understood cuntoo is not a $ubuntu-installer item

15:35