#trilema | 2019-03-01

asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ?

00:44

trinque diana_coman similarily fwiu.

~ 2 hours 11 minutes ~

02:56

phf

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 << i've been building everything using ave1's gcc/gnat which is musl based. i don't see any reason to keep glibc

02:56

Logged on 2019-02-17 15:50 mircea_popescu: some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque

02:56

lobbesbot

phf: Sent 1 day, 8 hours, and 12 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i hate to become 'thread necromancer', but would really like a resolution of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 & the related quandaries some time before i die of old age. plox to comment.

~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~

03:57

phf

asciilifeform: give me until end of march to resolve it one way or another, feel free to neg rate me then

04:03

phf

this really has been a low priority item until i moved to russia, but now i'm stuck in secular hell, so this whole subject elicits only anger and i'd rather something good actually came out of it.

~ 23 minutes ~

04:26

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897636 << as long as i need userspace C code to run, I'll be happy to use musl. it's not bugs-free, but its bugs have very different nature than glibc's. i see no reason for keeping glibc on non-toiletboxes.

04:26

Logged on 2019-02-17 15:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it already worx , afaik, on musl, ave1's gnat shits out strictly musl-static linkage.

04:27

re sjlj/zcx: i guess i'd stick with a variant of c (http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897694): sjlj by default, use zcx only when facing high overhead from sjlj AND where this is possible due to threading model.

04:27

Logged on 2019-02-17 16:07 mircea_popescu: c. ada-?-musl-static is the standard, either zcx or sjlj is acceptable (mostly based on what threading philosophy one embraces), with an obvious preference for zcx if one doesn't thread.

04:27

i do not expect to see a lot of exceptions from sjlj

04:28

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899820 << will have a look at mes; so far potential deadline -- next weekend.

04:28

Logged on 2019-03-01 01:26 mircea_popescu: bvt certainly

~ 2 hours 28 minutes ~

06:56

trinque ^

~ 17 minutes ~

07:14

bvt how come c btw ?

07:25

mircea_popescu: i guess the message did not parse correctly. i'm not proposing c the programming language; i meant something similar to "option c" from the list of possibilities you outlined in thread http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638

07:25

Logged on 2019-02-17 15:50 mircea_popescu: some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque

07:27

oh oh. yeah i c

07:28

*

mircea_popescu shall go sleep moar.

07:28

i see phf's having a blast tho!

~ 42 minutes ~

08:11

http://qntra.net/2019/03/qntra-s-qntr-february-2019-report/ << Qntra -- Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2019 Report

~ 1 hours 39 minutes ~

09:51

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-19#1898005 -> checked and confirmed: the genesis.vpatch matches precisely the previous one; so at least it's consistent on the same machine with different versions of V

09:51

Logged on 2019-02-19 03:57 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896530 << certainly! does it match your last run?

09:55

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897733 -> even stronger on this given the recent experiment since I can't see *any* reason for indulging zcx

09:55

Logged on 2019-02-17 16:19 diana_coman: to my mind option b has the benefit that it concentrates the effort in the right direction at least

10:09

re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 , specifically glibc is gonna go from my machines once I encuntooate them. it's not yet clear to me how this will impact e.g. apache, which calls dlopen for its loadable modules thing. google didn't turn out anything on the subj either.

10:09

Logged on 2019-02-17 15:50 mircea_popescu: some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque

10:12

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899545 <-- ty, pill applied. tho I don't expect any automated attempts to get the thing occured, only the immediate post-publication 'imbulzeala'

10:12

Logged on 2019-02-27 20:10 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899484 << i heartily recommend http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-images-no-longer-showing/

10:16

update re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-26#1899440 : it's almost done, I'll document it and post the new archive sometime next week. long story short: the headers/footers are non-standard, so it's taken me a while to find the proper grep recipes.

10:16

Logged on 2019-02-26 23:21 asciilifeform: !Q later tell spyked that gutenberg tarball -- didja get a chance to auto-kill all of the header liquishit ? i'd prefer to mirror a flensed copy, the 50kB of 'this text copyright wikitards(tm)(r)' is eyesore

10:18

but after about three semi-automated passes through the texts, I'm fairly confident I got most of the crap out

~ 24 minutes ~

10:43

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899892 << the xray setup is really for the pcb (not done yet, but film is here.) the ic shot is so possibly to figure out where to cut, right nao i have 3 ~different~ packages, so if i cut one and smash it , doesn't tell me anything useful re how to try again, it's a 'measure 7777 times, cut 1ce' situation.

10:43

Logged on 2019-03-01 05:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ?

10:44

next thing there will be a 45 deg. shot, to find what side the die is even on

10:45

the four rivets also of interest, they're transparent at 35kV, but would like to know why they are there, do they actually hold down the lid, or is there also glue etc

10:48

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899898 << would be pretty great. i wrote to dks again re the PALs , and re whether he has any moar cpus , dead or alive, to sell, so far no answr

10:48

Logged on 2019-03-01 09:03 phf: this really has been a low priority item until i moved to russia, but now i'm stuck in secular hell, so this whole subject elicits only anger and i'd rather something good actually came out of it.

10:48

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899918 << iirc trinque baked a working musltronic apache at one pt

10:48

Logged on 2019-03-01 15:09 spyked: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 , specifically glibc is gonna go from my machines once I encuntooate them. it's not yet clear to me how this will impact e.g. apache, which calls dlopen for its loadable modules thing. google didn't turn out anything on the subj either.

10:49

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899924 << neato. will mirror when it's baked.

10:49

Logged on 2019-03-01 15:18 spyked: but after about three semi-automated passes through the texts, I'm fairly confident I got most of the crap out

~ 46 minutes ~

11:35

trinque

asciilifeform: nginx

~ 33 minutes ~

12:09

trinque: aaah

12:09

as i understand various folx use gnarly custom apache ( iirc mircea_popescu definitely ) and so it'll have to be massaged also

~ 23 minutes ~

12:33

re those rivets : earlier this yr i tried to find where else used; turns out , hp ( who fabbed the bolix ) in late '80s also used on certain of their 'pa-risc' items, e.g. http://www.cpushack.com/gallery-1/hp/hp1fe4-0010-pa7300lc-b/

12:33

might be worthwhile sacrificial test subject, if at some pt i can dig one up

12:35

http://www.cpushack.com/chippics/HP/HP1SC6_B.html << another instance.

12:39

http://brainstones.narod.ru/collection/hp_pa_7300lc_1fe4_0002.jpg << to round off thread, better shot, of both sides of 7300, quite bolixesque physical package.

12:39

in good news, it seems that the static-only ave1-gnat builds itself fine (with the tarballs ofc so ultimately still relying on the corpse but at least that's frozen and the whole thing is NOT relying anymore on a deployed adacore)

12:40

diana_coman: neato. tho i did find that the arm build won't build a x86 gnat ( still afaik mystery )

12:40

re sjlj and zcx and apache - the current RK use would be the only iffy current situation re banning zcx

12:41

quite a bunch of issues on the arm it seems, yes

12:41

Meanwhile in the derpity butthurt files http://archive.is/nomDv

12:49

in other lolz, #musl has a "feepbot"

12:50

diana_coman: what does it do ?

13:04

it cites the title + a few words from the page linked

13:04

at least that's what I saw so far

13:06

I was curious re activity @ musl so I joined the channel: the topic is same as http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188244

13:06

Logged on 2015-07-05 15:04 asciilifeform: 'Topic for #musl is: http://www.musl-libc.org | Ask questions; treat others with respect; stop off-topic discussions for musl questions; do not publish logs; no sexism, homophobia, or other forms of asshattery.'

13:07

lol full fungal bloom

~ 17 minutes ~

13:24

http://qntra.net/2019/03/usd-woes-benjis-outnumber-singles-and-almost-entirely-outside-us-borders/ << Qntra -- USD Woes: Benjis Outnumber Singles And Almost Entirely Outside US Borders

13:33

http://qntra.net/2019/03/oscar-screener-leaks-hit-new-low-as-apathy-with-hollywood-output-continues-to-grow/ << Qntra -- Oscar Screener Leaks Hit New Low As Apathy With Hollywood Output Continues To Grow

~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~

14:59

http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/086-s-xml.html << The Tar Pit -- An XML parser for Common Lisp programs

~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~

16:13

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899937 << item of least concern currently, pretty much the only public use for a toiletbox is "web proxy the republic".

16:13

Logged on 2019-03-01 17:09 asciilifeform: as i understand various folx use gnarly custom apache ( iirc mircea_popescu definitely ) and so it'll have to be massaged also

16:13

not that i don't admire efforts of people trying to make better web proxies ; but i think those efforts are slightly misdirected and grossly premature.

~ 40 minutes ~

16:53

defo premature, esp. in light of prospect of e.g. ditching tcp

16:54

*

asciilifeform suspects that at some pt 'proggies for interfacing to heathendom' will become 'genre'

16:56

tcp, prospect of "wtf, mysql, postgres", prospect of wtf we do with xml, prospect of cl-php-replacement, prospects galore.

16:57

ftr, cuz this is interesting from a cultural history perspective : the "web", as an item in the socio-conceptual space, died ~with assange~, and not with wikipedia.

17:00

at its origin, it was envisaged as this cvasi-magical "perfect systematic solution to a large set of previously ununderstood problems". part and parcel of this, the (in retrospect) ridiculous blather of the wikitard as to the "human knowledge" and other http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850928 slash huxleyan nonsense, "transhumanism" blablabla.

17:00

Logged on 2018-09-17 17:15 mircea_popescu: i never perceived him as anything other than or besides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM-2030 character.

17:01

obviously wikipedia did not live up to any of those promises. but then again, the airplane, or the radio also did not live up to the hallucinant "promises" as perceived by early "idea men" "working" on the topics.

17:01

nevertheless, airplane, or radio, unlike "the web" or "the ipod" or "the smartphone" have definite utility.

17:02

*

asciilifeform sees it as having been ~stillborn to begin with : ersatz pseudo-hypertext, with broken links, inability to link to fragments in any reliable way, megatonne of hacks req'd to overcome these while introducing novel and intractable breakages, etc

17:02

the whole wikileaks debacle demonstrated however not just that the web is not a thing, but rather that the libertard concept of "civil society" is actually ~a myth~ rather than an object

17:02

much like the much earlier version libertard's notion of "god" or the classical libertard's notion of "freedom"

17:02

asciilifeform it was, from a technologically perspective, about on par with the canvas-wing biplane.

17:03

imho closer to the wing-flappy 'airplane'.

17:03

ie, yes stillborn from birth, from an engineering pov. but these can and actually are fixed, if there's ideological substance.

17:03

the problem is, there was no ideological substance.

17:03

superficially similar to working airplane, but actually dead end tech

17:03

i guess we'll have to disagree on this point.

17:04

mircea_popescu's other pt, tho, i gotta entirely agree with -- the item is a stupidity summer

17:04

speaking of a minor point above : mp tried to find slut an ipod, so she can listen to music while woprking out. mp discovered ~ipod item no longer exists~, not at used electronic shops, NOT AT POND SHOPS.

17:04

( i.e. accumulates stupid , from all possible inputs , rather than somehow factoring out )

17:05

mp was very confused. then mp was de-confused, by seller in stall in mall : here, this tiny little thing, it's an mp3 player.

17:05

"o holy shit, THIS is why ipod no longer exists -- it never fucking did."

17:05

mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want one if you found one . they're the orig 'you must crapple to upload files' item.

17:06

because it never fucking did. it was temporarily "a thing", in the sense of, hyped up ~name~ for a category, about as inconsequential as whatever other name.

17:06

"Tucker mentioned possible Oscar nomination for the script, more than $200M at the box office and revolutionizing Hollywood." sorta thing.

17:06

ipod was a thing like ipad was a thing, or like groupon was a thing : no sort of thing

17:07

mircea_popescu: it was an actual box, that was sold for something like decade. but again nuffin you'd want to try an' operate.

17:07

quite.

17:07

world's saddest mp3 player, possibly second only to sony's

17:07

which is my point here : ipod is not a thing to be, much like "american cuisine" is not a thing to be.

17:08

*

asciilifeform at one time owned 'mp3 player', was this brick that connected to parallel port...

17:08

i had this two-battery, no port radio as a 12yo boy.

17:09

https://www.cyberculture.ro/2010/12/13/craciunurile-mele-radio-ric-si-pijamale/ << item.

17:09

*

asciilifeform has sovok pocket radio also ! was pretty great, actually , ran on 9v, and covered in troo leather, was a joy to hold in hands.

17:09

and yes, back when mp was 12, that thing was the coolest of pubescent sex paraphenalia. YOU COULD OFFER A GIRL THE OTHER EARBUD!!11

17:09

ha loox like i had mircea_popescu's pictured earbud. it's the only thing that worked with my crystal set

17:10

notice if you would the very star wars - esque look of the imagological artefact associated.

17:10

the cable of that earbud doing that rounded corners thing ? totally.

17:11

vehehery '80s 'robotic fyootoor' eh

17:11

yup.

17:18

https://www.officer.com/on-the-street/body-armor-protection/blog/11537485/summer-stupidity << actually not even terrible "it sucks to be a cop, all you hear all day are idiots transparently lying to you" pov blog.

17:20

'no one has yet created body armor with air conditioning built in' << iirc this was actually commissioned during usg's iraq adventure. ( or at the very least, a golden toilet contract was issued for it, i have nfi what the accompanying theatrical prop looked like, and whether anyone bothered to produce )

17:21

only way to get ac in body armor is to go full hydraulic walking suit.

17:21

i actually expect this will be a thing, did you see the very good walking robots they have now ?

17:21

http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-26#1072977 << oblig

17:21

Logged on 2015-03-26 20:43 asciilifeform: one to break doors, gates; one to threaten bystanders, if any, with 'accidental' fire; one to shoot; and perhaps one with a cage that arrestee -might- be permitted to surrender into, if the bot's voice-recognition system works and if orders included a possible live capture

17:21

^ re 'fyootoor of usg.polizei'

17:24

The police here are so much more pleasant than back home. Even in small town USA(TM)(R) new recruit cops would stop me during late night/early morning walks to ask what I was doing. Here if the police even care to address me, nothing more needs to be said than the traditional exchange of "todo bien? todo bien."

17:24

Or if I am feeling fancy "todo bien, gracias"

17:25

the deeply "big zone bipedals ain't more human than any other cattle" feel of the pice is indicative. not of "police brutality", tho.

17:25

they['re fucking cattle, what.

17:28

Everyone in the US I've met that worked a "public contact/customer service" position has the same epiphany. None of them think humanity is bad or democracy unworkable, they fatlogic that everyone else is exactly as same age/gender/human as they are.

17:28

https://www.officer.com/training-careers/hiring-promotion/news/21070244/seattle-may-offer-15000-hiring-bonuses-to-attract-police-officers << in other lulz, http://trilema.com/2016/sad-times-in-the-fiat-empire-apparently-you-cant-give-the-dollar-away-these-days/

17:28

"Durkan proposed the incentive program last month, saying Seattle needs to jump into the nationwide competition for experienced police officers. Her plan came at a time when historically low unemployment and retirements of baby boomer officers, combined with high housing costs and a negative image of policing nationwide, are said to be driving competition for recruits regionally and nationally."

17:28

potheads "policing" potheads shall be a comedy goldmine of lulz and tears in the not so distant future.

17:28

millenials ftw!

17:29

mircea_popescu: atm they filter, sorta, by hiring 100% burned-out iraq hands

17:29

that was 2005.

17:29

15 years ago, alfie.

17:29

atm they hire ~anything with a pulse.

17:30

Well they do ask more of of some demographics compared to others in the name of equalitit

17:30

it's the traditional work for aged-out usg cannon fodder tho, for decades nao

17:31

asciilifeform: Not enough age out cannon fodder left. They are filling up the USG tech jobs with their clearances.

17:32

https://www.cyberculture.ro/blog/wp-content/uploads/ric3-schema-tehnica.jpg << 1980s warsaw-pact style foss!

17:32

mircea_popescu: i found a buncha these, when http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895632

17:32

Logged on 2019-02-13 01:27 asciilifeform: it's funny , when asciilifeform went to 'museum of communism' in timis, pawed through buncha ancient lulzlit there, and photo'd 'a la minox' to read through laters and chew on the 'limba de lemn'

17:32

made for some pretty lulzy reading on the airplane

17:32

asciilifeform there's no such thing left. i know it's difficult to conceptualize, but it's nevertheless true. there is no such thing as an us army.

17:33

if korea decided to invade, and somehow managed to land, korea would just jail the president & congress and that's all.

17:33

there's nobody left.

17:33

back in vietnam, they had a fucking DRAFT (and still lost)

17:34

mircea_popescu: maybe i slept through it, but did a plague kill off the midwestern farm boys who obediently 'die for the motherland'(tm)(r) or wut

17:34

today they can't summon 50 people to go to venezuela, as soldiers. and back in http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+mosul lulz days, they couldn't scare up 500.

17:34

asciilifeform: PnoHes killed the farm boys

17:34

die nothing. they'll sit in ac containers and "train" or w/e blather.

17:34

but they will not fucking die, are you kidding me ?!

17:34

their real value hasn't come up yet! they can't fucking die!

17:35

if you're willing to feed and clothe and billet them to play video games all day and totally not take their smartphone to red zone, they'll do it. you can call them astronauts or soldiers or whatever you want (as long as it's not stupid fucking cunts or anything like that).

17:36

but that's exactly as far as it goes. http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-123.521-123.556 and that's all.

17:36

*

asciilifeform at one time did work that put'im in contact with these folx. met a d00d who, convincingly, described playing 'call of duty: iraq' on... lappy, in actual iraq

↖ ↖

17:37

the moron that "accidentally got shot" during the bitcoin-somethingawful "debates" of yore was playing eve up to the very moment of taking one up the ass.

17:38

apropos of nuffin : mircea_popescu can you think of any reason why laue diffraction wouldn't work on a ic die ? seems like nobody ever fessed up to having tried. what am i missing

17:38

and he died exactly as per the manual.

17:39

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-27#773176 << subj

17:39

Logged on 2014-07-27 21:29 asciilifeform: if i recall, last words were 'enemy is at the gates. they've opened fire, oh shi....'

17:39

asciilifeform i ~suspect~ without having done the math that the doped nature of the si crystal makes the picture too noisy to be usable.

17:39

but afaik this hasn't been seriously tried since diana_coman did it.

17:39

mircea_popescu: that 'noise' is sorta whole point. distinguish the dopants.

17:39

(and since she's not done it, well...)

17:39

oh hm diana_coman did it ?

17:39

*

asciilifeform would luvv to read

17:39

asciilifeform but you don't get to distinguish ~one from another~.

17:40

ie you end up with a "there be dopants" haze.

17:40

crystallography generally works poorly on microfractured crystals, which is what this'd be.

17:40

you'd need a monochromatic beam (i.e. not what's in asciilifeform's brutal machine, naturally) but can't see why not in abstract worx

17:40

but again, i've not sat down with maths for this, just first pass "you got any suspicions ?" thing.

17:41

asciilifeform see, the refracted beams also interact.

17:41

they do

17:41

*

asciilifeform worked for a while with crystallographers and their output, but in 'traditional' domain, nuffin pertaining to semiconductor

17:41

no, i'm saying, this is the problem. if you don't have sufficient crystalline surface to provide separation, you end up with the microequivalent of a disco ball.

17:42

possibly

17:42

ie, fun but no more.

17:42

i find the howling vacuum when looked 'who tried this' suspicious, tho.

17:42

can't argue with you there.

17:42

but it's the web, you know, instant access to all human knowledge.

17:42

lolledge

17:56

such http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188100 lulz!

17:56

Logged on 2015-07-05 08:22 mircea_popescu: heh check it out, mark karpeles idling in #musl.

18:04

meanwhile in other http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889862 slash http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-08#948046 lulz : the dork i used above for a source for the commie radio pictures (not that he originates them, they actually come from http://www.latrecut.ro/2006/05/ric-stramoshul-ipod-ului/ which is significantlly better contextually, but I was lazy) not only passes himself as a "Ministrul Cyberculturii | Recenzii, cronici, cr

18:04

Logged on 2019-01-25 17:05 mircea_popescu: in any case, in 2011, as in 2001, as in 2021 i can say "academia romana keks" or http://trilema.com/2011/stimata-academie/ whatever ; but they can't say "trilema.com", because holy shit.

18:04

Logged on 2014-12-08 05:33 mircea_popescu: "Sunt fondatorul uneia din cele mai mari retele de bloguri de nisa din Romania (Stepout Media), cu siteuri precum: www.construimimperii.ro," i am the founder of one of the biggest niche networks in romania, with sites such as webuildempires

18:04

iptomonede, opinii" but even manages to write a piece on the celebrated http://trilema.com/2011/romania-cea-de-basm-partea-i/ item (four years later) without somehow managing to at all EVEN MENTION let alone fucking address the whole reason public funds were even misdirected towards printing that (meanwhile melted down) piece of crap.

18:04

romanian bloggers, i swear. showing up years late to a party they can't even describe.

18:05

there's this iconic moment at the peak of "caritas" (cluj-based MMM pyramid) where an old man in traditional peasant garb asked me on a bridge "if i know where's this place where they give money for free".

18:05

i retorted to him that if by this age he hasn't yet figured out such a place doesn't exist, there's no helping him.

18:06

and yet, i keep encountering this apparently archetipical romanian -- coming up late to a party he can't even describe.

18:06

that's how fresh-off-the-plow peasant sees city always, neh -- 'where money for free'. not so much leap from that to this.

18:07

but "the minister of cyberculture" dood.

18:08

those, them'd be the top of that particular mmm pyramid, neh. they show up and shown 'yes indeed money for phree, but only if you can get 9000 rubes to show up for erry 1 of you, and deposit penny to play'

18:09

eh, we're still at the http://trilema.com/2010/extemporal-la-venerologie/#comment-33269 moment.

~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~

19:19

in other negative results , 'Fuji Super HR-T' film dun budge 1 whit under 'Cinestill DF96' developer. tho in principle oughta.

~ 1 hours 22 minutes ~

20:42