Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-02-15 | 2018-02-17 → ↓
08:46 shinohai gm trilema
08:56 BingoBoingo Mornin' shinohai
08:57 shinohai Buenas dias BingoBoingo .... Qntra incoming in about an hour.
08:57 BingoBoingo Bueno, gracias.
~ 21 minutes ~
09:19 shinohai BingoBoingo: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/EtRw3/?raw=true
09:20 shinohai Plox feel free to edit as I have not advanced beyond first cup of coffee yet.
09:26 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/02/coinbase-fiat-side-glitch-opens-butts-for-hurts/ << Qntra - CoinBase Fiat Side Glitch Opens Butts For Hurts
~ 24 minutes ~
09:51 mod6 mornin' TSMR~
~ 16 minutes ~
10:08 shinohai Heya mod6 how goes?
10:08 mod6 Oh not too bad. How about you?
10:09 shinohai Pretty good here, gonna do an offline V test in a bit once I get a few more things squared away.
10:13 mod6 Hey, cool! Let me know how it goes/have Q's.
~ 3 hours 24 minutes ~
13:37 mod6 asciilifeform: I did check if that the perf test was still running -- it was this am. I think it should finish sometime today.
13:37 asciilifeform mod6: neat
13:46 ben_vulpes and in maxint schadenfreude: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/02/can-uber-ever-deliver-part-thirteen-even-4q-cost-cuts-uber-lost-4-5-billion-2017.html
~ 53 minutes ~
14:39 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/02/former-fbi-director-prepares-constitutional-crisis-in-united-states-with-indictments/ << Qntra - Former FBI Director Prepares Constitutional Crisis In United States With Indictments
~ 2 hours 52 minutes ~
17:32 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/mr-dilworthy-falls-in-some-bad-company/ << Trilema - Mr. Dilworthy falls in some bad company.
~ 3 hours 38 minutes ~
21:10 mod6 evenin'
21:12 ben_vulpes heya mod6
21:18 mod6 how goes!
21:18 * mod6 is working on wrapping up all the things for V 99993
~ 41 minutes ~
22:00 mod6 asciilifeform: ok it's done! http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HUSEX/?raw=true
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22:00 * mod6 also lulz @ HUSEX
22:01 shinohai hue
22:10 mircea_popescu why hello #trilema!
22:10 shinohai o hai mircea_popescu !
22:11 mircea_popescu how goes ?
22:11 shinohai Buenas noches y feliz Viernes
22:11 shinohai Good here, and you?
22:11 mircea_popescu not bad!
22:18 mircea_popescu diana_coman "took me twice as long" ?
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22:21 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo www.qntra.net 404s, should prolly just redirect.
22:22 mod6 mircea_popescu!
22:22 mircea_popescu hm ?
22:23 mod6 just sayin 'hi
22:24 mircea_popescu hola
22:26 mircea_popescu hm mod6 did i miss a payment or what happened here ?
22:28 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: nah, let me take care of that. 0.8 it was?
22:29 mircea_popescu yea
22:29 ben_vulpes !!pay mircea_popescu 0.8
22:29 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/riedu/?raw=true
22:29 mircea_popescu dun dun dun!
22:30 mircea_popescu so BingoBoingo finally got his bank acct huh !
22:30 ben_vulpes !!v FE62C1A6B3D703CEB2F058D90938A452801E95F7DCBC03825D763D80E3F7C9DA
22:30 deedbot ben_vulpes paid mircea_popescu 0.8
22:30 mircea_popescu ty ben_vulpes
22:31 ben_vulpes aha ty
22:31 * ben_vulpes bbl, $child has announced bedtime by angrily tearing apart a couch to build a fort
22:35 shinohai The plot thickens on Conbase drama: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWNCbmsWsAAtvXE.jpg
22:35 shinohai "We were TOTALLY not responsible at all, keep sending us monies."
22:40 mod6 thanks ben_vulpes
~ 19 minutes ~
22:59 ben_vulpes !!pay mod6 0.36578854
22:59 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IaMFY/?raw=true
23:00 ben_vulpes !!v EC08ABA86FC893FD5A6FCC6FB66965D075BC3B7B00C8BBE155266D7DF4D34286
23:00 deedbot ben_vulpes paid mod6 0.36578854
23:00 mod6 tyvm!
23:01 ben_vulpes mmmmhm
23:03 mod6 this deedbot payment system is slick asf
23:04 mircea_popescu word
23:12 asciilifeform oh hey it's mircea_popescu
23:13 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784178 << this is veeeery interesting and i'd like to know what iron
23:13 a111 Logged on 2018-02-17 03:00 mod6: asciilifeform: ok it's done! http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HUSEX/?raw=true
23:13 asciilifeform mod6: and it would stand to be repeated with the files swapped ( to remove effect of, e.g., just where the given sample lives on disk physically )
23:14 asciilifeform mod6: fwiw i have found no consistent diff, to the 6th ( beyond that, the timer is useless ) on opteron
23:14 asciilifeform *6th decimal
23:14 mod6 sure
23:15 mod6 how do you mean 'files swapped' ?
23:15 mod6 then hypothetically the timing values for ones and zeros should simply be reversed, no?
23:16 asciilifeform mod6: well ideally somehow to swap the inodes. still thinking how one might arrange such a thing.
23:16 mod6 iron is intel core-i5
23:16 mod6 ooh.
23:16 asciilifeform mod6: start however by moving the two for-loops around in your tester
23:16 mod6 ok.
23:18 asciilifeform this prolly calls for a proper test with rdtsc. but i'm saving this for 'dessert'
23:18 asciilifeform ( after errything else, that is, is done to death )
23:18 mod6 sure. i may want to re-run this entire thing anyway... i kinda dumbly ran this on my laptop.
23:19 asciilifeform ideally would want also not merely 'all 0' and 'all 1' but rng, and then to plot time vs hammingweight, and look for correlation
23:19 mod6 i have this mule box that i strap workloads to (core2duo box) -- should be fine as long as CPU isn't saturated, and during this test, the lappy was only like at .7 load or w/e
23:19 asciilifeform well if it's a multicore, naturally won't saturate, proggy is singlethreaded
23:20 mod6 oh right.
23:21 mod6 anyway, on the mule, i never did get adacore running properly. this lappy is the only box i got adacore '16 running on thus far.
23:21 asciilifeform it's ok to build on one machine and run -- on other. static .
23:21 mod6 only problem is: results aren't apples to apples.
23:21 mod6 different hardware.
23:21 asciilifeform this is also ok. just be sure to write down, which iron.
23:22 mod6 so would want baseline + deltas all on same env.
23:22 asciilifeform mod6: i will share my current hypothesis : all current intels have MUL leakage
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23:23 mod6 aha, was thinking that's what you were thinking.
23:23 asciilifeform otoh i could also be observing noise.
23:23 mod6 statistical noise, might be.
23:24 mircea_popescu what is the expected gain here ?
23:24 asciilifeform but yes this calls for a proper test, with rdtsc, then buncha MUL, then rdtsc again
23:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: to find which chips one is condemned to use egyptian innerloop MUL-substitute on.
23:25 asciilifeform currently the 2 known inhabitants of this list are ppc and arm7
23:25 mircea_popescu how much is that worth ?
23:25 asciilifeform well it's worth the diff b/w actual constanttime and... not
23:25 asciilifeform i.e. leaking key.
23:26 mircea_popescu if you find now as opposed to whenever someone runs it, this differential is worth the difference between what and what ?
23:26 asciilifeform it is not in fact essential to find the answer ~now~.
23:26 asciilifeform i'm putting in both variants of mul, selectably.
23:26 mircea_popescu so what's this all about ?
23:27 asciilifeform mod6 tried his hand at 'tester of whether ffa really does constanttime modexp'; asciilifeform comments on 1 set of output. is all.
23:28 asciilifeform not earth-shaking experiment, no.
23:28 mircea_popescu so his spending his time making less than minimum wage for it is basically his choice, you're just talking into the internet box ? is that the logic ?
23:29 asciilifeform sorta like asciilifeform's spending time making no sort of wage, writing the proggy to begin with , neh
23:29 mircea_popescu kinda, yeh.
23:29 asciilifeform i do not order mod6 , 'go and make such a test', no.
23:29 asciilifeform nor he -- i, 'go and...'
23:30 mircea_popescu what's that do ?
23:30 mod6 yeah, no. it's fine. i was happy to build/run. to me this is all very exciting/important stuff. back when alf was doing the karatsuba and other things in the late summer/fall, this type of thing started to be contimplated for innerloop substitute.
23:31 mircea_popescu mod6 you are talking to a man who spent his time dicking about and as a result is getting delorded.
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23:31 mod6 i think we may need some good data collected to come up with a list of arch's that leak
23:31 mircea_popescu if you copy his style of "work", you'll be doing yourself a significant disservice.
23:31 mod6 mircea_popescu: well, never the less, I'm still very much behind the utility of ffa
23:32 mircea_popescu yes, but meanwhile you're engaged with bbisp, which costs $$$ each month.
23:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: negrate, whatchawaiting for ?
23:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform separate items.
23:32 mod6 mircea_popescu: well, sure. I have a lot of things going on tho lol.
23:32 mircea_popescu you're just inept, not dishonest.
23:33 mod6 I get your meaning though.
23:33 mircea_popescu mod6 yes but if you don't sort them by time-productivity you'll end up in the soup.
23:33 asciilifeform it's entirely fine afaik to negrate honest people
23:33 asciilifeform e.g. -10 i hate his face
23:33 mircea_popescu not how i go about it.
23:39 asciilifeform oh while mircea_popescu is tuned in: bisp ( of which asciilifeform is 50% in ) awaits instructions re disposition of the 3 mircea_popescu boxen
23:41 mircea_popescu iirc a) they were nsa boxes and b) the problem there was transportation, after you managed to get them locked out of the phf flight that ended up not happening
23:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: transport has been arranged. what remains is 1) mircea_popescu wants'em in ? if so, how many (1,2,3?) 2) what type of disks he wants in #2 and #3 ( also remains option to outfit with disks at later time, after installation )
23:43 mircea_popescu that doesn't say much. what exactly has been arranged, where ?
23:44 asciilifeform ben_vulpes is making a delivery run : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783930
23:44 a111 Logged on 2018-02-14 17:48 ben_vulpes: i have one 1U slot open in my next courier run to .uy, if anyone wants their machine couriered down speak NOW or i'm going to fill it with a box of my choice
23:44 asciilifeform i will let him speak re exact time.
23:45 mircea_popescu so how many of 1, 2 or 3 do i want to fit in a 1u slot ?
23:46 asciilifeform well if 1, it's a 1u subscription, if 2 -- 2u, so forth
23:46 mircea_popescu anyway. it's unclear to me these are even dc worthy in any sense.
23:47 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu wants them at his house to use as boat anchor -- oughta specify this. they dun do much good here on desk.
23:47 mircea_popescu much like errything else.
23:48 ben_vulpes what's so not-dc-worthy about 'em?
23:49 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: apparently , that asciilifeform touched'em
23:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu is apparently determined to maliciously run s.nsa into the ground, and pin the corpse on asciilifeform .
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23:50 asciilifeform and yes, asciilifeform -- not quite ~yet~ stripped of his stars and epaulettes -- wishes to put this matter before the forum.
23:50 asciilifeform supposing we are still carrying on with a pretense of a forum, and a lordship.
23:50 mircea_popescu anyway. the situation is that s.nsa naively bought some iron at your recommendation at some prior point. meanwhile you refused to deliver the "here's the mega-article comparing all hardware, which will guide future republican hardware building.
23:50 mircea_popescu and seeing how you're the fellow who asks me how many items do i want to fit in ben_vulpes 's one item slot, i have serious doubts about your cogency anyway.
23:51 mircea_popescu so for now, waiting to see what bbisp decides to do re hardware, and vageuly considering getting out-of-house expertise.
23:51 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i have nfi. could take too much power, could whatever the fuck.
23:51 asciilifeform ben_vulpes in point of fact allocated 2 slots for s.nsa . and was asking re whether 3rd ought to also go to it, or to another.
23:51 mircea_popescu we still don't have a proper item on which to base hardware strategy.
23:51 mircea_popescu and i wouldn't trust asciilifeform to write it now, in any case.
23:51 asciilifeform and the measured draw is 150W . ( as descibed in detail in the past. )
23:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu you are not a party to bisp.
23:52 mircea_popescu i still intend to follow their standards.
23:52 asciilifeform a customer (possibly ! not yet subscribed) -- yes
23:52 mircea_popescu what's "being a party" has to do with anything ?
23:52 asciilifeform asciilifeform sets the iron standards.
23:52 mircea_popescu nope.
23:52 asciilifeform aaaactually.
23:52 mircea_popescu in no case do you set any standards.
23:52 mircea_popescu that train left.
23:53 asciilifeform so mircea_popescu , having sold his stake, and not even yet a subscriber, wishes to decree re what is done at bisp.
23:53 mircea_popescu i guess, perhaps, the standard for time frittering. but that's well set already, so.
23:54 mircea_popescu speaking of which, dja have some sort of decision yet ben_vulpes / mod6 ? are you goint to offer box rentals ? what kind ?
23:55 asciilifeform it so happens that asciilifeform has purchased a 50% stake in bisp. and specifically with one condition: that mircea_popescu (named, concretely) will not be a back-seat driver there.
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23:55 mod6 mircea_popescu: that is being discussed, yes.
23:55 mircea_popescu well, that was pretty dumb on their part, i guess, but whatever, experience is apparently difficult to process.
23:55 ben_vulpes will be renting boxes out, this first courier run is filling up with space-rental.
23:56 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes ok, but which are you buying ? or what's teh strategy exactly ?
23:59 ben_vulpes i want the next run to have one box with lots of ram and cpu to start selling vps and shared hosting in earnest, and another 2 of smaller boxes that can be rented out entire in the $3-400/mo range.
23:59 mircea_popescu yes, but the problem with "lots of x" is that...
23:59 mircea_popescu so basically is the idea that you'll just do whatever and we're missing this opportunity to attempt an' standardize iron ?
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