Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2017-04-29 | 2017-05-01 →
01:09 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/010442599B6DF274437E6DC7462DC7D077CBF7084EE669E81BC6EAD2B9FADD8E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1408...6277 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.103.101.114 (ssh-rsa key from 82.103.101.114 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BG)
01:09 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/010442599B6DF274437E6DC7462DC7D077CBF7084EE669E81BC6EAD2B9FADD8E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1698...3293 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.103.101.114 (ssh-rsa key from 82.103.101.114 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BG)
~ 8 hours 20 minutes ~
09:30 asciilifeform http://www.nugae.com/politics/index.htm << in other very olds.
09:31 mircea_popescu gmornin' alfie.
09:35 asciilifeform ohai mircea_popescu
09:45 mircea_popescu "In its early years the Group produced a few carefully researched papers, which the Conservative Party really had to take notice of because no-one else in the Party gave the impression of doing any thinking at all." << he's talking of the republican party in the 80s, ie, that supposed golden age of reaganism. and he's not right, either.
09:45 mircea_popescu truth be told it's very common for large groups of people to do ~no thinking whatsoever.
09:46 asciilifeform brit
09:46 asciilifeform i thought it was clear from the text..
09:46 mircea_popescu right, right.
09:47 mircea_popescu there's a difference across the atlantic, conservative/republican aren't ~same, so on.
09:47 asciilifeform ( this is still the first-rsa-chip d00d from earlier thread )
09:47 mircea_popescu aha.
09:48 asciilifeform today same
09:48 asciilifeform but '80s also ?
09:48 mircea_popescu tatcher / reagan yes ?
09:51 asciilifeform tru
09:53 asciilifeform ' "Poverty" as defined now (for instance, by the Child Poverty Action Group) would have been called "riches" in many earlier ages. In a similar vein, the child sex abuse industry ensures an ever growing problem and ever growing attention by redefining as sexual abuse things (such as being groped in crowds) that most people would regard as a regrettable but not catastrophic part of childhood, so that its statements about real abuse are
09:53 asciilifeform lulzy.
09:53 mircea_popescu the woman he mentions (corinne camilleri-ferrante) died a few years back. the guardian has an empty, google spam page on her name.
09:54 mircea_popescu this, because she didn't keep a blog, and she didn't because, of course, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-29#1649870
09:54 a111 Logged on 2017-04-29 13:29 mircea_popescu: diana_coman yes, and this is exactly my greater point here : competent people don't understand how to defend themselves from the tedx crowd, and don't. they're, basically speaking, dodo birds.
09:55 asciilifeform sorta why when i turn up a live dodo, i post it here.
09:56 asciilifeform normally it is too much to hope for, to keep dodo alive. but can at least stuff him.
09:58 asciilifeform 'If I employ a gardener, I have to earn £3 for every £1 he can actually spend, because everything is taxed twice, first as my income, then as his.' << not only still true in today's reich, but today it'd be 10 : 1 .
09:59 mircea_popescu but since he mentions enoch powell : it can't be underscored enough that "what will happen when much brain power and energy are applied to a faulty premise". compare and contrast the life and times of http://trilema.com/2010/general-sir-charles-james-napier-gcb/ working for the empire with the output and stature of powell.
09:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it is verboten, in today's reich, to employ anyone.
09:59 mircea_popescu the state must do all the employing! kulak.
10:00 mircea_popescu if you employ them you might have relations with them outside of facebook (which is assault!!!) and they may be grateful or in any way develop positive feelings for you (which is abuse!!11)
10:00 asciilifeform for physical human to employ, at any rate, yes, quite verboten
10:00 mircea_popescu corruption! AND TERRORISM!
10:03 asciilifeform aaha. ye olde star topology, is the goal. all interactions via Great Inca strictly.
10:06 mircea_popescu http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3900462/It-says-need-little-sympathetic-racists-world-Row-erupts-Enoch-Powell-s-Rivers-Blood-speech-read-stage-decade-s-provocative-play.html << speaking of same powell
10:08 mircea_popescu http://www.enochpowell.net/fr-79.html << and the original birmingham speech, to rescue it from all the inept blather about "Rivers of blood" and whatnot socialist horde nonsense.
10:10 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/0bWu3/?raw=true
10:10 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
10:10 shinohai Buenas dias Sr. Popescu. asciilifeform
10:10 mircea_popescu hola.
10:10 mircea_popescu "I can already hear the chorus of execration. How dare I say such a horrible thing? How dare I stir up trouble and inflame feelings by repeating such a conversation? The answer is that I do not have the right not to do so. Here is a decent, ordinary fellow-Englishman, who in broad daylight in my own town says to me, his Member of Parliament, that this country will not be worth living in for his children. I simply do not have
10:10 mircea_popescu the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking – not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history." et al.
10:11 mircea_popescu in other words - it's not like there wasn't ample warning. there was. the fucktards of #england failed to act in the proper manner.
10:20 asciilifeform every civilization gets ample warning of death. nobody cancelled death yet.
10:21 asciilifeform the warning does 0.
10:21 mircea_popescu mno. quoth :
10:21 mircea_popescu "That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century."
10:21 mircea_popescu basically, englidiots permitted their "allies" to airstrip one them.
10:22 mircea_popescu that's the only practical point in all of this. yes england was a piece of shit slated for the garbage heap anyway, sure. but there can not be such a thing as an ally of the us.
10:23 asciilifeform the 'airstripping' was naturally with help from germany.
10:24 mircea_popescu you mean in ww2 ?
10:24 asciilifeform aha
10:24 mircea_popescu amusingly, england would have fared a lot better if it made a humble peace with germany cca 1939, than as it did making a gaudy, and empty, alliance with the only true enemy of humanity, and human liberty.
10:25 asciilifeform didn't work so well for stalin
10:25 mircea_popescu this is true.
10:26 mircea_popescu but then again, zee prussians always had a higher view of englishmen than of russians.
10:26 asciilifeform tru
10:26 mircea_popescu and besides, tiny island of shit, nobody wants and nobody cares.
10:26 asciilifeform however peace treaties between megaempires are a lul.
10:26 asciilifeform britain still nominally owned, e.g., india, then.
10:26 mircea_popescu point being it'd have worked closer to a sort of nepal / taiwan / whatever than to a sort of north korea.
10:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yep. and with germany acquiring india the whole lebensraum thing'd have been gone out of anyone's mind.
10:27 mircea_popescu imagine a belgian congo the size of all india! virtually no indians left today, etc.
10:29 asciilifeform germans weren't so much interested in doing the congo thing, tho, initially more into roman-style 'citizen farmer' land parcelling
10:29 mircea_popescu aha. but i was for the sake of argument going to the outer edges of the perhaps unlikely.
10:29 asciilifeform aha. who the hell knows what a grown-up german empire could've been like.
10:29 mircea_popescu nevertheless : a whole population of redskins disappeared over a coupla centuries because, day after day and year after year, each individually made their choice : would i rather work and think, or would i rather die ? and they chose to die, and they died, AND THEY ARE NOT MISSED.
10:30 mircea_popescu sadly the same process was stopped short in congo, and in india, and generally.
10:30 asciilifeform not only stopped, but turns out it has reverse gear
10:30 asciilifeform and can make 'redskins' out of whoever.
10:30 mircea_popescu the overflow of all the "i'm too lazy to work, and i have twittering to do rather than thinking" is certainly in the way.
10:31 mircea_popescu but to quote napier, which is why i even linked him, "So perverse is mankind that every nationality prefers to be misgoverned by its own people than to be well ruled by another."
10:32 mircea_popescu obiously, he had nfi he's discussing his own country.
10:35 mircea_popescu anyway, this is the fundamental limit of "democracy" in ~any sense~. no sort of consultative body, no matter what kind or type, would have ever fallen on the correct solution cca 1939, which was to say to hitler "hey, you seem like a strapping young chap, tell you what, each dog must have his day says our poet. would you like india ?"
10:35 mircea_popescu a richard might have had, perhaps. he certainlt found the ~equivalent in the saxon-norman dispute. but no body of man ever can.
10:36 mircea_popescu it's an argument often found in the hands of the socialist / statist , that single men make mistakes which deliberating bodies might have avoided. this is a ridiculous argument : for every case of that there's ten thousand cases of mistakes them bodies make single men would have readily avoided.
~ 17 minutes ~
10:54 mircea_popescu anyway, to get back to the history of the dodo bird : enoch did in the 1970 election about what trump did in the 2016 election. except enoch did not get the prime minister job (same dork hath got perpetuated, by the same exact swamp for the same exact sort of reasons).
~ 35 minutes ~
11:30 asciilifeform meanwhile in monkeystan, https://archive.is/f41QJ
11:30 asciilifeform 'Barrett Brown was re-arrested and taken into custody by Bureau of Prison officials today for speaking to the media.'
11:30 asciilifeform ^ d00d who was nailed as scapegoat for the public rape of stratfor corp
11:30 mircea_popescu o, right, because the criminal gang will tell you what to say.
11:31 asciilifeform schmuck did, after being promised 100 yr (yes) sentence, sign 'plea deal'
11:31 mircea_popescu heh. according to whom, this ? he can't talk to "the media".
11:32 asciilifeform according, apparently, to the inquisitor in charge of subj.
11:32 mircea_popescu if i kidnap your sister and say she's signed marriage contract which is why you can't see her no more, your inference is what exactly ?
11:32 asciilifeform in the reich with seekrit laws (yes), who is surprised by 'secret plea deal' conditions.
11:33 mircea_popescu i can't deem the instrument valid, no matter what the (known terrorists) say.
11:34 asciilifeform see also buharin et al's 'confession' .
11:42 mircea_popescu eh, dude got shipped to paris young slut in tow. utterly asking for it.
11:45 asciilifeform in retrospect ~everybody 'was asking for it'
11:45 asciilifeform always.
11:48 mircea_popescu so this barrett brown, was he sent with... whatever, pick a 20yo slightly slack-jawed beauty to beijing, whence he returned to the us "because he can't live outside of the great satan" ?
11:49 mircea_popescu (incidentally, he was very popular with xiaoping, who was 30 at the time. why was he not in #china ?)
11:52 asciilifeform afaik was sent nowhere.
11:53 mircea_popescu no, no, bukharin got sent to buy the marx archives from the french socialists.
11:53 asciilifeform ah him -- yes
11:53 asciilifeform https://archive.is/Q7wOv << see also re brown
11:53 mircea_popescu with anna what's her name.
11:53 asciilifeform '“The prosecutor said one thing that was accurate—that I don’t have respect for the laws in this country,” he told TIME. “We have a situation in which the only way we can survive as a free nation is if our laws are not enforced.”'
11:53 mircea_popescu lol, sops got butthurt ?
11:54 asciilifeform was condemned for ... posting a link.
11:54 mircea_popescu sounds about right for the usg.
11:54 mircea_popescu to briefly revisit kochanski, "I was subsequently elected to the post of Research Secretary of the Bow Group, which meant that I was the general editor of its published papers from 1989 to 1990. My abiding impression of the foothills of the Conservative Party at the time is of a world where people eyed their friends suspiciously and if they saw signs of possible talent then they knifed them before they became a danger. Perha
11:54 mircea_popescu ps things were always thus; but there is a particular danger when a party has had too much power for too long: its members cannot compete to attack the enemy so they attack each other instead. If future commentators identify a "missing generation" of politicians who were in their twenties during the Thatcher years, this will have been the cause."
11:59 mircea_popescu from the monkeystan link : "Ms. Luz Lujan, his BOP contact, refused to provide him with copies of program statement rules". but ofcoars. and "ms" luz lujan is going to do no time for this, because hey, good soviet.
11:59 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
12:00 mircea_popescu the pretense to be taken seriously is so fucking lulzy by now. i expect next is a shoe banging moment, yes ?
12:01 mircea_popescu ”The U.S. government decided today that because I did such a good job investigating the cyber-industrial complex, they’re now going to send me to investigate the prison-industrial complex,” he said, thanking the government for providing “free food, clothes and housing as I seek to expose wrongdoing by the Bureau of Prisons officials and staff and otherwise report on news and culture in the world’s greatest prison sy
12:01 mircea_popescu stem.”
12:01 mircea_popescu apparently i'm not the last to make this point, huh.
12:02 asciilifeform afaik fella did not go on to write the next 'gulag archipelag', no.
12:02 mircea_popescu he has time. s took 20 years or what.
12:02 mircea_popescu this was 2015.
12:03 asciilifeform the genre isn't exactly fresh, or inexhaustible, either.
12:03 mircea_popescu at any rate -- it is worth pointing out that the original "charges" proferred by the sops terrorist organisation were dropped ; the current "sentence" stems from posturing around a youtube video the guy made discussing said "charges".
12:04 mircea_popescu which is a perverse sort of reminder : taking the usg seriously, IN ANY WAY, is what the usg lives off if.
12:04 mircea_popescu of*
12:04 asciilifeform iirc d00d did something or other while on dope, that was later spun as 'threat to public official'
12:04 asciilifeform ( not everybody is lucky, like adlai et al, and merely gets put in asylum )
12:05 mircea_popescu not somebody is an imbecile, like adlai et al, to actually dose themselves.
12:07 asciilifeform not even certain that this is a 'morality' tale re dope -- there are 'genius' who behave this way even sans dope.
12:07 asciilifeform 'stotting'
12:07 mircea_popescu we'll talk of them when we run into them.
12:09 mircea_popescu in other lulz, le pen has a lengthy list of other-provinces-generals to name in various places once she wins. such roman empire.
12:09 mircea_popescu !~google dupont-aignan
12:09 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Nicolas Dupont - Aignan - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Dupont-Aignan>; N. Dupont - Aignan (@ dupontaignan ) | Twitter: <https://twitter.com/dupontaignan%3Flang%3Den>; France election: Marine Le Pen would make Dupont - Aignan PM - BBC: <http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39757887>
12:20 mircea_popescu o check it out, github has a "pricing" tab i never noticed before. $9 per user per month ? really ?
12:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's how they always worked
12:21 asciilifeform paid hosting thing
12:21 asciilifeform ( the phree hosting is for public material strictly )
12:21 mircea_popescu see, bukharin who idiotically will not go to china to hang out with a 30yo deng xiaoping also pays $9 a month "for his team" to github.
12:21 mircea_popescu it's not just passive stupid. it's organizedly and layeredly stupid
12:22 asciilifeform it's the same story as email hosters etc
12:22 mircea_popescu anyway, i invited steve arnold aka sarnold over ; plox to voice / explain how to register his key if i'm not around.
12:23 asciilifeform whossat
12:23 mircea_popescu graybeard, perhaps not entirely objectionable. ~the iota of value in the whole pile of idiotic kids trying to bypass mp's "talking about bitcoin doesn['t make you part of bitcoin" by hanging out in ##crypto and pretending like they know maffs.
12:24 mircea_popescu https://www.vctlabs.com/ also.
12:25 asciilifeform looks vaguely familiar
12:27 asciilifeform http://12000.org/my_notes/ada/index.htm << linked via subj's www. potentially handy.
12:27 mircea_popescu conceivably he might also explain how to make a gentoo that works, and in the process of trying find out a few things for himself.
12:28 asciilifeform that'd be something.
12:37 asciilifeform !~later tell phf if you are still working on the puzzle : it is my current understanding that no clean detection of multiply-overflow (when operands and result are all N-bit registers of same N-arity) is possible...
12:37 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
12:38 asciilifeform ^ if anyone thinks otherwise, please write in!
12:43 asciilifeform seems like the only guaranteed solutions are either to trial-divide every time (eat 2x the space and 2x the time!) or to keep around 'behind the scenes' 2x the nominal register, so as to have where to overflow into, and then test it for zero (2x the space, and 2x the time ! just like the other 'solution')
12:43 asciilifeform somewhat surprisingly , nothing else works.
12:43 mircea_popescu ahem ? if the product of the leading q bits isn't equal to the leading q bits of the result, you have overflow.
12:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: expand
12:44 mircea_popescu 85 * 97 overflew if the result is not led by a 7.
12:46 asciilifeform there's no 7 in 8245...
12:46 mircea_popescu 1100001×1010101 = 10000000110101 nevertheless.
12:47 asciilifeform i'm thick, explain which op would demonstrate the overflow here.
12:47 mircea_popescu i thought this was the reason computers EVEN USE binary in the first place.
12:47 asciilifeform the leading N bits will not be same as product of leading whichevers. because carry.
12:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform isn't it the case that if the result was 0-led you'd know the product had overflown ?
12:48 asciilifeform nope.
12:48 mircea_popescu 1x * 1y will never result in a 0y no matter what happens!
12:50 asciilifeform 1xx * 0 = 0 .
12:50 mircea_popescu to put it another way, two N-bit items muliplied so they yield a M bit result, where M < N, overflowed the buffer.
12:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this only works for addition.
12:50 mircea_popescu hey, you said same N-arity!
12:50 asciilifeform 0 is 0000...000 for our case.
12:50 asciilifeform same arity.
12:50 mircea_popescu tsk.
12:51 mircea_popescu then we refine :
12:51 asciilifeform i thought it was clear that thread is about fixed-register arithmetics.
12:51 mircea_popescu if two numbers of lengths l1 and l2, with l1 and l2 < N are multiplied, and the result is less than l1+l2 bits long, then it has overflown.
12:51 mircea_popescu the l of "000000" is 0 for this purpose.
12:52 asciilifeform the result is always N bits long, fixed N. what we want to know is whether it actually represents x1*x2.
12:52 asciilifeform or we lost the high bits.
12:52 mircea_popescu if l1 of x1 added to the l2 of x2 exceeds N then it doesn't represent x1 * x2
12:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu's statement is true but doesn't help, because we do not have an elastic register to represent the arity of the mult result.
12:53 asciilifeform we instead have fixed one.
12:53 mircea_popescu we could count...
12:53 asciilifeform nope.
12:53 asciilifeform because again, fixed register.
12:53 mircea_popescu you can't tell me how many leading zeros x1 has ?
12:53 asciilifeform can. and l2.
12:54 mircea_popescu so then. if these two added together are less than N you've lost some high bits.
12:54 asciilifeform less than N, or less than leadingzeros(N) ?
12:56 mircea_popescu for convenience, consider 16 bit registers : 8245×8 = 65960 which overflows. you know this because 0010000000110101 x 0000000000001000 ie 2 + 12 = 14 which is < 16.
13:00 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/53C6B99375383B7B79B64399F7B2E611F9C2E5ED90FA79C25279DF1C348297B1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1545...6329 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '155.253.6.47 (ssh-rsa key from 155.253.6.47 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown IT 25 MI)
13:00 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/53C6B99375383B7B79B64399F7B2E611F9C2E5ED90FA79C25279DF1C348297B1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1657...5419 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '155.253.6.47 (ssh-rsa key from 155.253.6.47 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown IT 25 MI)
13:01 mircea_popescu meanwhile 255 * 255 does not overflow ; you know this because 8 + 8 is not < 16.
13:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: let's, for simplicity, take 3bit regs :
13:01 asciilifeform 101 * 010 = 001010 (we end up with 010 )
13:01 asciilifeform the leading zeros of x1, x2, and result, are 0, 1, 1 respectively.
13:01 mircea_popescu we also notice that 0 +1 = 1 which being < 3 we lost bits.
13:01 mircea_popescu 3 being N, arity.
13:03 asciilifeform hmm i see where mircea_popescu is going
13:03 asciilifeform this is still pretty expensive op tho.
13:03 asciilifeform to do on every mul.
13:04 mircea_popescu well... that may be, but you asked.
13:05 mircea_popescu anyway, as i said : i thought ~this~ is why computers even use binary in the first place.
13:08 pete_dushenski shinohai: there ain't no happening like an unhappening. just priceless.
13:09 mircea_popescu shinohai during ITS first review.
13:11 asciilifeform 111 * 001 = 111 ( 0, 2, 0 leading 0s ) no overflow...
13:11 asciilifeform this test only works in one direction
13:11 asciilifeform rather than 'iff'
13:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you will have to consider the parity of the two items to decide if you go by N or N-1.
13:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wouldja spare a few min and plox write down algo ?
13:13 asciilifeform takes, say, 2 3bit nums, and tells if mul will overflow.
13:13 mircea_popescu alrighty, this is turning out to be more interesting than i thought.
13:14 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/4jCKm/?raw=true << a mult table, for convenience .
13:16 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/T5NY9/?raw=true << same, for 2bit.
13:17 asciilifeform ( http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/RjlFl/?raw=true << same, for 4. in case handy. )
13:17 * asciilifeform bbl.
13:28 mats https://i.imgur.com/ozC5uTx.jpg 10/10 troll
13:34 pete_dushenski "Oxford University has apologised for saying that avoiding eye contact could be "everyday racism" after it was accused of discriminating against autistic people." << in other british sads that i can only wish were trolls.
13:43 mircea_popescu hey, the whole point of even buying tickets at the Decaying Empires show is to watch special interest groupas gfoing at each other.
13:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/eBqC2/?raw=true << best i got
13:47 mircea_popescu mats i'm pleased to see trilema moved teh overton window so.
13:54 pete_dushenski lol speaking of special interests going at each other, "She’s the Alternative for Germany’s new co-frontrunner despite a great divergence from the party’s typically conservative, xenophobic portrait. Alice Weidel, an openly gay economist, was nominated as the anti-immigrant, far-right party’s chief candidate on Sunday, set to run alongside AfD co-founder Alexander Gauland in September’s federal
13:54 pete_dushenski elections."
~ 20 minutes ~
14:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'l1 + l2 < N - 1, the product of a and b will always overflow N.' << didja mean > rather than < ?
14:14 asciilifeform or hm
~ 15 minutes ~
14:30 asciilifeform 'If l1 + l2 > N-1, the product of a and b can never overflow N.' is true. 'If l1 + l2 < N - 1, the product of a and b will always overflow N.' is also true.
14:30 asciilifeform however this takes us only in 1 direction.
14:31 asciilifeform take, e.g., these 4-bit cases:
14:32 asciilifeform 0011 ( 2 ) * 0110 ( 1 ) = 00010010 = 0001 : 0010 ( 3 )
14:32 asciilifeform 0011 ( 2 ) * 0111 ( 1 ) = 00010101 = 0001 : 0101 ( 3 )
14:32 asciilifeform ( parens have leading zeros count, for convenience )
14:33 asciilifeform these 2 cases overflow, but the fact does not trivially flow from mircea_popescu's equation, you do not know that they will do so by counting the leading 0s
14:34 asciilifeform now let's do mircea_popescu's third statement:
14:34 asciilifeform 'If l1 + l2 = N-1 let a' be equal to a with its leading 1 set to 0, let b' be equal to b with its leading 1 set to 0, let N' = N - 1 and apply the same algorithm.' << the problem with this is that it reduces to actually DOING THE MULT
14:34 asciilifeform so in the end we have nodice.
14:38 asciilifeform and incidentally the given formulation doesn't work, take the first case, 0011*0110 . it turns into 001*010 = 010. the result (N-1 = 3) has 1 leading zero. no overflow. apply recurse again, we get 00*00 -- definitely no overflow, and no moar leading 1s to flip...
~ 19 minutes ~
14:58 asciilifeform http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/863038 << paywalled. anybody got a copy ?
14:58 asciilifeform 'This paper presents efficient methods for performing unsigned or two's complement integer multiplication with overflow detection or saturation. ' supposedly.
14:59 asciilifeform apparently this is a bona fide unsolved problem.
14:59 asciilifeform however i've also not turned up a rigorous proof that it is unsolvable. which is bothersome imho.
15:04 asciilifeform let's formalize the problem statement. N is integer, N>1 . x, y are int, 0 <= x < 2^N; 0 <= y < 2^N. determine an f, such that f(x,y) is true iff x*y >= 2^2N ; such that complexity of f is less than that of * operation.
15:06 asciilifeform for my purposes i could entirely do with a constant-time-and-space mult algo that knows when to set the overflow flag.
15:10 asciilifeform keep in mind that 'double the available register width' IS NOT A SOLUTION !!
15:11 asciilifeform ( it is how the problem is 'solved' on all known hardware ALUs )
15:14 asciilifeform i'll review, for the l0gz, the 'ancient egyptian' mult algo, which is the simplest practical, and illustrative of the difficulty of determining overflow ~while doing the mult~ in fixed space.
15:17 asciilifeform you take multiplicands x, y, and accumulator a (initially 0) , and do : while y!=0: { if odd(y): { a += x } ; x <= x*2; y <= y/2 } .
15:18 asciilifeform so for concrete case, 0011 * 0110 :
15:18 asciilifeform 0011 , 0110 (do nothing)
15:18 asciilifeform 0110 , 0011 (a += 0110)
15:19 asciilifeform 1100 , 0001 (a += 1100)
15:19 asciilifeform 1000 , 0000 (do nothing, and we stop.)
15:19 asciilifeform in this case, detecting overflow simply during the addition stage, works : 0110 + 1100 sets the carry , because result is 10010.
15:20 asciilifeform but in other cases, you cannot do this:
15:20 asciilifeform say, 1000 * 0010 . ( i won't clutter the log with the steps, will leave as exercise. )
15:23 asciilifeform hmmm
15:23 asciilifeform one algo suggests itself :
15:25 asciilifeform when the left shifter ( x ) overflows for the first time, we set a bit, q, and clear another, r. r is set whenever right-shifter (y) overflows. now : if r is set again subsequently to q being set -- it means we overflow.
15:27 asciilifeform this here seems like the finalsolution, folx.
15:27 asciilifeform now all that remains is to prove...
15:27 * asciilifeform bbl.
~ 29 minutes ~
15:57 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-29#1649816 << i do not; good q. i'll find out.
15:57 a111 Logged on 2017-04-29 05:56 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes whart's the difference between auto_ptr and unique_ptr, dja know ?
16:04 diana_coman asciilifeform, a search for that thing turned out what seems to be the MSc thesis behind it if that's any help
16:10 diana_coman actually I found the paper too meanwhile, ping me
~ 31 minutes ~
16:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the only practical use may be that it's perhaps cheaper to count l's to exclude unoverflowing mults and then appl ythe double reg mult to the remainder, than to apply the double reg mult uniformly throughout.
16:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: see thread - i solved the general case. maybe oughta demand master degree nao, lol.
16:50 mircea_popescu double carry ? this sounds eerily familiar in retrospect.
16:53 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes at least theoretically auto_ptr was the standard replacement for unique_ptr, with the difference that it can also be copied, not just moved. so in point of fact plain replacement of one for the other is bound to cause grief.
16:54 mircea_popescu (i said them backwards. auto is the old one.)
16:56 mircea_popescu https://herbsutter.com/2013/05/29/gotw-89-solution-smart-pointers/ << story.
16:58 mircea_popescu ("fixing errors you didn't know you had" in his sendoff is of course very welcome for SVtards / webshit and utter poison for stuff like bitcoin)
~ 34 minutes ~
17:33 mod6 mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, et. al: Third FG, first run of entropy collection & testing of `ent` && `dieharder` complete: http://www.mod6.net/fg/fg-test/fg3.ent_run1.txt http://www.mod6.net/fg/fg-test/fg3.dieharder_run1.txt
17:46 asciilifeform neato mod6
17:50 asciilifeform and diana_coman holy SHIT is that method 1001x moar complicated than mine.
17:50 asciilifeform now, granted, it's about parallel multers
17:50 asciilifeform but even so.
17:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'smart pointers' lol. familiar to cpp users. imho this type of 'automation' helps no one.
17:57 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/04/post-production-to-ransom-to-torrent-pipeline-growing/ << Qntra - Post Production To Ransom To Torrent Pipeline Growing
18:03 shinohai ty BingoBoingo
18:04 BingoBoingo ty shinohai
18:07 shinohai lol I haven't browsed reddit in so long I didn't realize there is a whole new subreddit dedicated to mETH fraud: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereumfraud/
18:08 asciilifeform !~later tell phf http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DqmQw/?raw=true
18:08 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
18:08 asciilifeform ^ draft. still needs proof-of-workage.
18:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu ^ runs in SAME space, and same order of complexity , as the old routine...
~ 1 hours ~
19:10 mircea_popescu nice.
19:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform write a blog post ; then reference it from code commetns.
19:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i gotta come up with proper proof...
19:17 asciilifeform ( as for code -- in the end it mist be entirely self-contained. and provably correct. it's a backbone for, e.g., 'tmsr rsa', 'p', eventually gossipd, etc. )
19:17 asciilifeform *must be
19:18 asciilifeform 'reactor-grade'. i.e. no doubt whatsoever must remain re whether it works as intended.
19:19 mircea_popescu so make blog post.
19:19 asciilifeform whole thing will be , eventually, proper article on my www.
19:19 asciilifeform ( code + commentary, genesis. )
19:20 mircea_popescu aite.
19:20 mircea_popescu what whole thing ?
19:20 asciilifeform P.
19:20 mircea_popescu holy shit you're stuborn.
19:20 mircea_popescu make blog post re the above.
19:22 asciilifeform incidentally it annoys asciilifeform that ada ( or for that matter any other procedural lang) offers no way to unroll the loops
19:23 asciilifeform if loops were unrolled, you could have not merely a non-branchingonsecrets rsatron, but wholly nonbranching !
19:23 mircea_popescu asm allows.
19:24 asciilifeform only if you admit self-modifying code.
19:24 mircea_popescu there is that.
19:24 asciilifeform ( won't run from rom ! )
19:26 asciilifeform also irritating is the fact that, while we have constant-time routines, it is impossible to guarantee constant-current (yes)
19:27 asciilifeform and so conceivably side channel remains ( not only current per se, but how does cpu current consumption affect clock jitter? betcha it does. and afaik 0 public discussion of this, exists. )
19:28 mircea_popescu can't not, can it now.
19:30 asciilifeform btw i'm still waiting to meet an explanation re how 'blinding' (e.g., koch's) supposed countermeasure to timing attack, is supposed to help.
19:31 asciilifeform enemy can just as readily observe your 'blind' and 'deblind' exponentiations, as your original unblinded one...
19:31 asciilifeform and now you've given him 3x the 'broadcast', neh
19:31 mircea_popescu to quote "the high standard or mathematical discussion" folk, http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-found-some-area-of-expertise-in-mathematical-cryptography-one-expects-to-find-here-and-there-plus-divers-spots-missed-while-shaving/#selection-705.0-666.26
19:32 asciilifeform lol
19:33 mircea_popescu aha.
~ 18 minutes ~
19:51 asciilifeform https://www.riscure.com/archive/rsacc_ctrsa_final.pdf << re earlier ( unfortunately no demunged version available )
~ 31 minutes ~
20:22 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-walking/ << Trilema - The day of walking.
20:36 deedbot http://danielpbarron.com/2017/modifying-eulora-icons/ << Daniel P. Barron - Modifying Eulora Icons
20:51 mircea_popescu danielpbarron you can actually also change the dialogs skin the same way, the character models, the skybox / ground, pretty much everything whatsoever.
20:59 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://archive.is/NmfNI << when usg bgp-hijacks - 0 press, unsurprise. when ru -- mass panic ( e.g. https://archive.is/ZYy6z )
20:59 asciilifeform 'On Wednesday, large chunks of network traffic belonging to MasterCard, Visa, and more than two dozen other financial services companies were briefly routed through a Russian government-controlled telecom under unexplained circumstances that renew lingering questions about the trust and reliability of some of the most sensitive Internet communications.' didjaknow.
21:00 asciilifeform ( not to mention the idiot 'attribution' thing. why the hell would usg ~not~ broadcast false bgp to point to rutelecom. )
21:08 Framedragger ^ good reminder why any trust on 'origin ip' is moot eh!
21:08 Framedragger (cf. early gossipd designs, etc.)
21:09 asciilifeform Framedragger: nobody canceled, e.g., elementary theft of boxes, either
21:09 asciilifeform (anywhere on your route)
21:09 Framedragger yes sure, there is that.
21:12 mircea_popescu usg is speshul! according to usg.
21:12 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
21:14 mircea_popescu Framedragger sane designs (such as you know, mpex has been displaying since 2012 say) do not even care as to what ip.
21:16 Framedragger whatever my gripes with teh mp-way, /me been personal fan of mpex design and opsec since day 1 ;)
21:17 mircea_popescu me too!
21:17 Framedragger we should party.
21:17 mircea_popescu yeah!
~ 49 minutes ~
22:07 mircea_popescu in other hydraulics, https://68.media.tumblr.com/03c225e1a79025b4401f886571cd02e6/tumblr_o7z8mtGSO11r2u49wo1_500.gif
22:11 mircea_popescu Framedragger btw you gonna re-do the scan for 2017 ?
22:23 BingoBoingo !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Rtpuo/?raw=true
22:23 deedbot accepted: 1
22:24 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/05/qntra-s-qntr-april-2017-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) April 2017 Report
22:28 shinohai Continuing in hydraulics: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/hydraulics.mp4
~ 22 minutes ~
22:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-01#1650350 << i had nfi this was possible. mega-respect.
22:50 a111 Logged on 2017-05-01 02:07 mircea_popescu: in other hydraulics, https://68.media.tumblr.com/03c225e1a79025b4401f886571cd02e6/tumblr_o7z8mtGSO11r2u49wo1_500.gif
23:04 mod6 Ladies & Gentlemen of TMSR~: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-May/000263.html
23:12 shinohai ty mod6 ... that was prompt!
23:22 mod6 yup, np!
23:37 asciilifeform oh hey.
23:45 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-464291.txt
23:52 asciilifeform in other noose, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/m3LQl/?raw=true << egyptian mul. with slightly better comments
23:52 * asciilifeform still chewing on a formal proof re subj
23:54 asciilifeform surprisingly tough, because the OF bit is ~not~, as is in the case of familiar add/substract, the next bit of the product ! (which, observe earlier, can actually be 0 in the case of some overflows) but stands for merely the fact that P != X*Y .
23:54 asciilifeform *subtract
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