Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-12-30 | 2017-01-01 → ↓
00:33 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-are-they-all-going-to-die/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Are they all going to die
~ 47 minutes ~
01:21 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://archive.org/stream/Link-16-Joint-Key-Management-Plan-28-April-2015/Link%2016%20Joint%20Key%20Management%20Plan,%2028%20April%202015_djvu.txt
01:23 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1594228 <<< protip for asciilifeform, if it actually gets off the ground, it's not a sim!11
01:23 a111 Logged on 2016-12-30 22:18 asciilifeform: historically accurate to the point of wtf -- even radio controls (what good are they in a sim?) are there.
01:23 mircea_popescu lol
01:32 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-three-men-are-coming/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Three men are coming
~ 21 minutes ~
01:54 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594446 <<< i'm confused, isn't the 8-ball a set of factors that you multiplied into the running product, and for which 're-running' makes little sense, as being already present in the global factors product?
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01:54 a111 Logged on 2016-12-31 03:26 asciilifeform: and where was this pop when i first ran 8ball
~ 43 minutes ~
02:37 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-lucy-returns/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Lucy returns
~ 47 minutes ~
03:25 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-before-they-set-off/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Before they set off
~ 23 minutes ~
03:48 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594781 << hmm. what i could do is, check that all generated gpg keys have the right e and N (by comparing to the e,N,IP CSVs that i fully trust); to make sure that i didn't mess up the gpg-generation thing. i don't think it'd be really possible, and i had done some manual checks before, but maybe worth to write an automated full-on test.
03:48 a111 Logged on 2016-12-31 04:43 asciilifeform: this would of course mean that Framedragger's set contained massive dupeage somehow.
03:48 Framedragger probably a useful piece of code to have anyway; actual tests for proper maintenance. :)
03:49 Framedragger that being said, confused.com re. this case.
03:50 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594793 << wow, that's retarded 2000
03:50 a111 Logged on 2016-12-31 04:50 asciilifeform: 'The ability to limit concurrent coredumps allows dumping core to be safely enabled in these situations without affecting responsiveness of the system as a whole. I have several servers running with this patch applied (actually backported to v2.6.26) and it has allowed me to deal successfully with the situation described above.'
03:54 Framedragger streamlined coredumping reminds me of http://hack.org/mc/texts/suns-boot-fast.txt
03:59 trinque pretty good
03:59 trinque > thanks to bill for increasing my swap space
03:59 trinque ahaha
04:00 Framedragger :(
04:01 trinque what he fixed it
04:01 Framedragger but they expanded my cell's volume so i have room to walk around now
04:04 trinque damn, I was born that year
~ 17 minutes ~
04:22 Framedragger btw asciilifeform, if you want to be even more sure that no postgres data is lost while being written during power failure, you probably need to disable disk controller and disk drive caches, if at all possible. but maybe you've done this.. as per https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/wal-reliability.html
~ 17 minutes ~
04:39 Framedragger (actually, i'm sure you've considered all this, so sorry for assuming you may not have)
~ 5 hours 7 minutes ~
09:46 mircea_popescu Framedragger i wouldn't worry about it.
~ 1 hours 24 minutes ~
11:11 mircea_popescu reading tom knight about lispm fills me with rage.
11:15 asciilifeform knight, in case anyone did not know, designed and built the original lispm.
11:15 mircea_popescu myeah.
11:20 * mircea_popescu in #freenode ; <mircea_popescu> christel is there some manner to opt out of the cutesy/pointless global notices ? or otherwise out of these global notices altogether ?
11:20 mircea_popescu but do you suppose christel feels the need to ANSWER ? no, he'll just speak. because hey, we're all on fucking tv over here.
11:22 mircea_popescu you should see that channel, it's like camwhores' chatrooms exactly.
11:23 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-katy-is-coaxed/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Katy is coaxed
11:26 shinohai mircea_popescu: You can unset those with /umode -w
11:26 mircea_popescu i have, meanwhile.
11:26 shinohai I think /ignore *!*@freenode/staff/* NOTICE works as well
11:27 mircea_popescu the point, however, is that before i will use the tools, i'd rather parlay with the idiots as if they were, somehow, people.
11:27 shinohai lol
11:27 mircea_popescu of course i have the tools. my existence is not limited or in any way described by the acts of idiots.
11:27 mircea_popescu theirs however, is.
~ 54 minutes ~
12:21 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tUG5b/?raw=true 2016 shitcoin roundup
12:21 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
12:29 shinohai Also, blaze new paths this New Year: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1AvHb8WgAEVxjT.jpg
12:33 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-in-spite-of-all-that/ << Trilema - Disgrace - In spite of all that
12:37 mircea_popescu i don't know how new they are. seem pretty well formed.
12:48 asciilifeform phun phakt:
12:49 asciilifeform 'Static linking of user binaries is not supported on Mac OS X. Tying user binaries to the internal implementation of Mac OS X libraries and interfaces would limit our ability to update and enhance Mac OS X. Instead, dynamic linking is supported (linking against crt1.o automatically instead of looking for crt0.o, for example). We strongly recommend that you consider the limitations of statically linking very carefully, and consider yo
12:49 asciilifeform ur customer and their needs, plus the long-term support you will need to provide.'
12:51 asciilifeform grade a+++++ monkeyware
~ 20 minutes ~
13:12 mircea_popescu hurr. "if we want to use the anal orifice later on and you linked something it may give it away. use this lube.'
13:13 asciilifeform this btw on the libc level.
13:13 asciilifeform dun matter what you use, old gcc, gnat, etc.
13:13 asciilifeform the linker -- barfs.
13:14 mircea_popescu sure. they know how to do it ; llvm is not "a competitor" for gcc, the notion that someone could "hold out" is nonsense. llvm was written quite exactly with full knowledge of gcc in mind.
13:14 asciilifeform (found this gem when testing an otherwise 100%-portable gnat makefile)
13:14 phf we briefly exploerd this fun fact back when static linking became a thing (with bitcoind)
13:14 asciilifeform aha, i recall, phf had a mac experiment
13:14 asciilifeform notably the machine from this example is a mac with 100%-working gnat (on gcc 4.xx)
13:15 asciilifeform at any rate, i suppose it dun much matter how one links in monkeyland.
13:15 asciilifeform but, notably, winblowz!! supports static exe.
13:16 mircea_popescu this being the difference between a technology company like apple and a media company like yahoo, aka microsoft : the former actually fit gcc / their erstwhile competition in head. the latter just blather on in the hopes the holy paper clip will help with the printing press.
13:16 asciilifeform i dunno that either fit anything at all in head
13:17 asciilifeform crapple stole gcc while it made expedient sense, wholesale, raw
13:17 asciilifeform then -- ditched
13:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform to say it again : llvm is not "a competitor" for gcc. llvm was written quite exactly with full knowledge of gcc in mind. you know they fully understand how gcc works, and i don't mean on the first order, but on the last, BECAUSE of little signs like these.
13:17 asciilifeform llvm was not written at or by crapple
13:17 mircea_popescu llvm is, from a gnoseologic point of view, a superset of gcc, the upper node.
13:17 asciilifeform sponsored -- yes.
13:18 mircea_popescu you are going to examine the glue holding labels to bottles now ?
13:18 mircea_popescu "apple", does it make it better if it's "apple" in quotes ?
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13:18 asciilifeform regardless of whom -- expand on 'they knew'
13:18 phf windows for a longest time had a very stable abi, as per "you can run windows 95 programs still!1", where's i suspect mac os x probably doesn't. it's the same problem on openbsd, sure you can static link, but you will have to recompile after the next release.
13:19 asciilifeform noshit 'they knew', all compilers are built on roughly same scheme, just as all airplanes have wings, fuselage, etc
13:19 asciilifeform phf: correct, it does not. whereas win95 proggies typically still run
13:19 mircea_popescu someone, or for the sake of rigor, "someone", a tom knight equivalent, sat down and read all of gcc, slowly, loaded it in head. i do not mean, "one version". i mean ALL of gcc, like i know words in the sense of who is their mother and their father and the fine degree derivatives in all trees in ten languages. all of gcc.
13:19 asciilifeform phf: 'impoverished' os is a plus from this pov
13:20 mircea_popescu and then thought abvout it, and then came up with a model for a world which includes gcc, and then ran simulations of that world and evaluated which moves best serve a specified interest.
13:20 mircea_popescu and thus llvm was born.
13:20 mircea_popescu but not just llvm - the whole world exists, and it produces things such as "'Static linking of user binaries is not supported on Mac OS X. Tying user binaries to the internal implementation of Mac OS X libraries and interfaces would limit our ability to update and enhance Mac OS X. Instead, dynamic linking is supported (linking against crt1.o automatically instead of looking for crt0.o, for example). We strongly recommend tha
↖ ↖
13:20 asciilifeform i dun see this as a necessary hypothesis. i dare say that if i had to write a c compiler, it would end up looking somewhat more like llvm than gcc.
13:20 mircea_popescu t you consider the limitations of statically linking very carefully, and consider your customer and their needs, plus the long-term support you will need to provide."
13:21 mircea_popescu which is NOT a random string, nor the result of a markov process, run on dry sand or wet protein.
13:21 asciilifeform thing caught on not strictly because crapple et al pushed it, but because genuinely modular. even though it sucks in almost every other respect.
13:21 asciilifeform recall the solrodar experiment.
13:21 mircea_popescu yes, but you miss that very point. it is not "somewhat like", it is exactly and precisely like the thing it is.
13:22 mircea_popescu the "apple software ecosystem", while on a level dysfunctional as ben_vulpes oft informs us, is on another edge intricately designed.
13:22 mircea_popescu more so, i dare say, than the lisp machine ever was.
13:23 mircea_popescu not as productively, yes, not for the end user, at any rate, but there never was a rule that intelligence be benevolent.
13:23 asciilifeform moar so than winblows, at any rate. 'nextstep' was, at any rate, architected from the ground
13:23 asciilifeform (modern crapple is, under the cover, still largely nextstep)
13:23 mircea_popescu much more so than windows, which is entirely indistinguishable from yahoo, or time warner, or ibm.
13:25 trinque perhaps worth reminding whose hardware comprises much of the modern NSA panopticon
13:25 mircea_popescu this apple, nsa, whatever, nobody gives a shit, but this "apple" is the empire's last hope, half-Alphabet-half-AAPL-half-contractors whatever it is.
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13:26 mircea_popescu "it could buy russia" does not mean - it could. it means - if anyone on our side has a prayer - them.
13:29 mircea_popescu and it is a hope based on something, right or wrong. "is russia more complex than gcc ?"
13:30 mircea_popescu what rms thought, in his amusing naivite, to be defending hadn't in fact existed for a decade by the point news of it reached him. fruhlingserwachen, the steiner offensive.
13:32 asciilifeform update re phuctor: i did finally turn up the dupes.
13:32 asciilifeform next step is to find out how they got in.
13:32 asciilifeform (dupes ~mods~ in table. which should not be a thing.)
13:41 trinque mircea_popescu: I've wondered whether it is apt to call these human aggregates gods, in that the term was a passable label for distributed-world-model running among nodes of a wot
13:42 trinque but then I don't know enough about that end of things to know whether the ideology actually flowed from a particular fountain
13:42 mircea_popescu i would say it is improper, because the fundamental quality of a god is that it's not constructible, much like no woman ever came in the shape of a lego set, be the parts delivered together or scattered in the landscape. conversely if you prefer, it is not proper because gods contain the metaphysical equivalent of a teleological dimension.
13:43 mircea_popescu in any case, no, the clay colossi are all that - machinery, golums.
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13:43 trinque hm
13:43 mircea_popescu to be a god they must have purpose without purpose ; both observably and demonstrably the Central Committee (which is what this is) do not.
13:44 trinque it may just be an internal bias of mine that these people couldn't have ever consciously designed anything
13:44 mircea_popescu the golumn also doesn't consciously anything, which is why dogs jack off but golums do not.
13:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594814 << bernstein's algo does not use a running global product. see his 'finding the smooth parts of integers'.
13:50 a111 Logged on 2016-12-31 06:54 davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594446 <<< i'm confused, isn't the 8-ball a set of factors that you multiplied into the running product, and for which 're-running' makes little sense, as being already present in the global factors product?
13:51 mircea_popescu man, thinks and therefore is, artifact, willed therefore here, but god is here before any will, and its being outside the possible scope of any will. which is why the ancient literary convention of the hero's journey : gods can't change. they don't give up smoking.
13:53 mircea_popescu the brightest minds among the sheep in classics class will ask why, when apollo's arrows rained on them, did not the victims shoot him back ?
13:53 mircea_popescu indeed.
13:54 asciilifeform i'dve told'em 'next time it rains and soaks your undershirt, you should rain and soak ~its~ undershirt right back'
13:54 trinque lol
13:54 mircea_popescu you don't make a very good teacher, even as you're a fine engineer!
13:55 * asciilifeform not about to change professions any time soon
13:55 mircea_popescu the answer doesn't have to be correct, moreover can't even be. it helps the bleating kids if it is meaningful. to them.
13:55 asciilifeform this job needs cutting edge expert zoologist(zoophiliac?)
13:55 asciilifeform howthefuck would i know what is meaningful to sheep(le)
13:55 mircea_popescu myah.
13:56 * asciilifeform still boggled over the dog-woman in mircea_popescu's tale
13:56 mircea_popescu which one ?
13:56 asciilifeform last 3
13:57 phf can write reams of koan annotations "next time asciilifeform shouldn't forget his umbrella!"
13:57 mircea_popescu heh. africa.
13:57 mircea_popescu it's where hiv comes from, you know ?
13:57 asciilifeform i read the whole thing , to date, while waiting for massive megaturd of phuctor to pump over to this half of the planet so i could rebuild working model of entire thing here in my torture room
13:57 asciilifeform (which is done)
13:58 asciilifeform there are now 2 identical (though not, at this moment, synchronized) phuctrons
14:03 trinque as all gods of which I'm aware are written (willed) narrative, there's an interesting membrane there
14:04 trinque I suppose for now there is an equivalence between god and golum in my perhaps thick skull
14:04 mircea_popescu how's this unlike there being an equivalence between if and for ?
14:04 mircea_popescu they're different concepts, they do different things, what sort of code results from randomly switching if and for calls around ?
14:05 asciilifeform i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i have a refreshed (nonexpir) pubkey as of 5 min ago
14:05 asciilifeform where to put it
14:05 asciilifeform (same moduli)
14:05 trinque I'm saying a man creates "apollo" the symbol as an act of will
14:05 mircea_popescu "but they're both written down with letters". so what if they are. if i shoot an hour of a woman fucking half a dozen men, thereby i've constructed a woman ?
14:05 trinque yet another man perceives him as bedrock reality there before the stars
14:05 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pgp.asc has been updated.
14:06 asciilifeform sha512:c3ae6fb22bdb8a60c55d14d04b9b0f5b10b808357df0046bcedaa2305232a5c48f36af48564de6ce55d9b99b0ca56482fc587e96f4d59f9911524bee7e749c04
14:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform your plan on transfer of authority among keys relies on what exactly ? an unnanounced, ad hoc scheme whereby the weakest link is your continued voice in chan ?
14:06 asciilifeform holy fuck mircea_popescu , SAME MODULUS
14:06 mircea_popescu ah
14:06 asciilifeform pgpdump -i.
14:07 asciilifeform just scrubbed the expiry, because i am tired of doing this every new year.
14:07 mircea_popescu i read 2 lines out of 3 before throwing a fit.
14:07 * asciilifeform developed through deliberate effort the habit of 'read whole thing before spewing chunks'
14:08 trinque ye gods
14:08 trinque lol
14:08 trinque asciilifeform: I will inspect the key then pop it in
14:08 mircea_popescu now do me a favour and also deliver the habit of sorting what you say in order of node importance!
14:08 asciilifeform trinque: please do inspect mine or any other such key, also good habit.
14:10 mircea_popescu "i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i scrubbed the expiry off my pgp key, which of course makes a new pubkey even if it is the same modulus as before" not "i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i have a refreshed (nonexpir) pubkey as of 5 min ago"
14:13 * asciilifeform looks forward to the demolition of koch-pgp.
14:13 asciilifeform it was a perlism and i won't miss it.
14:13 mircea_popescu myeah.
14:14 * asciilifeform bbl -- meat.
14:14 mircea_popescu but to continue, is the number 4 like that, one man made, another perceived ? how about fire ? was fire invented, like "the united states of america", like any fine story ?
14:16 trinque I can see the distinction there.
14:16 mircea_popescu apollo the symbol strives to mark down the discovery of apollo the god, much like ٤ stives to mark down the number 4. you wouldn't know it to look at the poor thing, but it is what the ~actual~ arabic numeral for a set of four items looks like.
14:17 trinque I would say then that I have something political signified by the symbol god in my table, and have no allocated term for the other thing
14:18 mircea_popescu aha.
14:19 mircea_popescu and in this perspective, arguments as to the existence of gods become truly amusing. even in a world in which, through some strange workings of happenstance, no set of four items did in fact exist, nor ever had, and supposedly never will... there's also no number 4 ?
14:19 mircea_popescu in what sense, "Existence"
14:19 mircea_popescu and in what sense, "specified"
14:21 mircea_popescu and on the other hand, "the number four told me to headbutt a door!". really, it did ? i suppose, perhaps, if the number four is followed by a double-sifr and occurs on your blood test result sheet right where the locals wrote "glucemia" it may be said "the number four told me to stop eating icecream", but it is rather forcing the point.
14:25 mircea_popescu and it just goes on from there, "the real number 4 is the root of polynomials in my daily life and so i believe in it ; but the number 4+i priviledges the properties of abstract spaces over things much more important to us and therefore...i do not consent to its existence." hurr.
14:28 * trinque is here, furrowing brow, while some neurons work their way from here to the thread re: void
14:29 mircea_popescu are you familiar with the von neumann set ?
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14:31 trinque no, and I perceive that proceeding further will require more than a casual understanding of mathematics.
14:32 mircea_popescu fortunately, mathematics is simple. V is the set of all sets. by convention, the first index, V0, is the empty set.
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14:33 mircea_popescu V1 is the set of the set containing the empty set.
14:33 mircea_popescu V5 contains 65536 elements. V6 contains 2*65536 elements.
14:34 mircea_popescu when you first expand your sex life to include a woman, you vividly remember her, and everyhing, minute detail. and once it further expands to include two, still. and three, and slightly dimmer four. by six its growing steadily dimmer, and maybe by the 7th is the first time you start losing track of them.
14:35 mircea_popescu reality diverges much more slowly thay representation. but this inequality offers no challenges to the validity of either reality or representation. they are what they are, they do what they do.
14:36 mircea_popescu (i mean 2^65536 above, obviously, not 2*)
14:47 trinque it is the empty set that explodes in circles in my mind, not that I deny that it must be named first. that the definition of all things has void as a dependency induces virtigo when looking out at the world.
14:48 trinque *vertigo
14:55 mircea_popescu everyone's afraid of dying, to some degree.
14:55 trinque it is precisely that.
14:56 trinque and aside an aversion to pain or suffering or whatever.
14:56 * trinque had both leg and own cock chopped open while awake on separate occasions!
14:56 mircea_popescu sure.
15:00 trinque thanks, I'll have to be off for now.
~ 32 minutes ~
15:33 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-petrus-has-invited-us/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Petrus has invited us
~ 2 hours 16 minutes ~
17:49 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/shinohais-2016-end-of-the-year-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-tmr/ << Qntra - Shinohai's 2016 End Of The Year Shitcoin Roundup Xtend (TM)(R)
~ 15 minutes ~
18:04 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/disgrace-he-glances-across-at-lucy/ << Trilema - Disgrace - He glances across at Lucy
18:15 BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-lucy-returns/ << "If he had a a gun he would probably be dead now"
~ 40 minutes ~
18:55 mircea_popescu ty
19:09 BingoBoingo yw
19:09 mod6 State Of Bitcoin Address [December]: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-January/000244.html
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19:18 mats in much less interesting news, tw is in a tizzy over a draft law regarding same-sex marriage
19:19 mats parliamentarians appear to be trying to push it through despite some polling indicating a 1:1 split in public opinion
19:20 mats it will reportedly involve amusing changes to public documents, e.g. passports, textbooks in public schools, where folks are now 'parent one' and 'parent two' instead of father/mother
19:21 BingoBoingo Very azn
19:23 mats in my view, the state doesn't have any business in regulating marriage at all
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19:24 mats er, shouldn't have any*
19:25 BingoBoingo But for srs, this is a very azn way of handling people
19:28 mats http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-same-sex-passports_us_560c68e6e4b076812700bf06
19:28 mats i guess americans are very azn too
19:32 BingoBoingo !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1ZLyY/?raw=true
19:32 BingoBoingo mats: Duh
19:32 BingoBoingo Americans are most Kingdom Chinese
19:32 deedbot accepted: 1
19:35 mats in other other news, new year's eve is always amateur hour on the streets
19:35 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/qntra-s-qntr-december-2016-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) December 2016 Report
19:36 phf u.s. suburbia and thereabouts are typically dead on new year's
19:36 mats a day long shit show of people getting wasted and stumbling around causing trouble
19:37 phf mats: i don't quite remember, but i think you're located somewhere exciting?
19:37 mats yeah... boston
19:39 phf ah. not too exciting, but definitely has city life. though i'm surprised people venture outside with those insane crosswinds
19:39 mats it's pretty warm out
19:42 mats https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/31/turkey-armed-attacker-opens-fire-in-istanbul-nightclub-reports watch out for santas
19:43 phf ffs, makes it harder and harder to convince girl to go back to istanbul
19:49 BingoBoingo Istanbul fine, wait for Sultan
~ 26 minutes ~
20:15 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-446041.txt
~ 2 hours 10 minutes ~
22:26 BingoBoingo !~Congrats trinque on fast deeding
22:26 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Error: "Congrats" is not a valid command.
22:29 BingoBoingo https://archive.is/AZtxK << Truefax
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