Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-06-12 | 2016-06-14 → ↓
05:40 Framedragger so #botwar has the following chan rules : http://sysdef.de/botwar_channelrules.txt
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~
06:53 mircea_popescu lol ?
06:53 mircea_popescu isn't 2013 a little late for rick rolling ?
06:58 mircea_popescu and in further sjw news, http://www.collarspace.com/personals/v/2427600/details.htm
07:03 mircea_popescu (okemos high school, 2800 jolly road, meridian charter township, mi 48864)
07:06 shinohai Ah, she wants to be "Black owned". How cute.
~ 34 minutes ~
07:40 mircea_popescu http://www.okemosschools.net/education/page/download.php?fileinfo=RXJpYy5wZGY6Ojovd3d3Ny9zY2hvb2xzL21pL29rZW1vcy9pbWFnZXMvZG9jbWdyLzg2NDdmaWxlNzA4MDMucGRm&sectiondetailid=160 <<->> some lafond article pointing out that if you see a man with girlfriend(s) he's black, whereas if he's white he's generally a junkie and if accompanied by a female her cuckold.
07:40 mircea_popescu do you know it BingoBoingo ? the one describing a pimp with two fat women ; a guy with a hot chick fucking her in the bathroom ; and other things.
07:41 mircea_popescu anyway : white fellow married a woman older than himself, impregnated her at the merry age of 30, and produced a useless shithead, which opted out just by the time "society" was done pumping half a mil in his sorry loser ass.
07:48 mircea_popescu girl's desire to be black owned is not only perfectly understandable in that context, but rationally mandatory. what the fuck is she to do ?if she's got any life whatsoever left in her coils, what the everloving fuck is she to do, nurse eric ?
~ 31 minutes ~
08:20 mircea_popescu (obviously, the hallucinated "black as non-white" she imagines has little to do with anything found in nature, but hey, sucks to be a black dude with a human sized penis.)
~ 33 minutes ~
08:53 PeterL $register PeterL F595258CD9F1FDBDEFAE5093B4E2E0DCACB63D25
08:53 deedbot Import failed for PeterL.
08:53 Framedragger http://blogs.microsoft.com/firehose/2016/06/13/microsoft-to-acquire-linkedin/#sm.001trr8qq17rjdt2xt1122l06mc16
08:53 Framedragger > 26.2 billion
08:53 Framedragger l0l
08:54 Framedragger apt commentary on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11893190
08:56 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: interesting
08:56 mircea_popescu reprise of the "turner buys myspace for 1bn" thing.
08:56 BingoBoingo "black owned" LinkedIN
08:57 PeterL how to update to new key with deedbot?
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08:58 mircea_popescu the scam being 1. govt prints and hands money off to "pension funds" -> 2. pension funds "invest" in microsoft ; 3. chosen sons form "online business", feed it as per http://trilema.com/2014/askfm-laid-bare-or-whats-half-a-million-uniques-to-you/ (there's an entire scamola pyramid to create "numbers" for these "properties", scratched the surface of documenting it on trilema but really it's collossal). and then finally, 4. 2 s
08:58 mircea_popescu ends however many billions to 3. victory.
08:58 mircea_popescu PeterL not even sure that's possible - a question for trinque
09:00 mircea_popescu nevertheless, as various "open source" geniuses (ref http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-07#1265178 ) found out on own skin, of the "26bn, $randomfigure" of paper dollars, precious few turkey-dollars actually trickle down to the "owners". black or otherwise.
09:00 a111 Logged on 2015-09-07 12:55 punkman: then http://news.slashdot.org/story/99/12/10/0821224/esr-writes-on-surprised-by-wealth >> and now http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6835
09:04 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-07#1265178 << HAHAHA ok that is funny.
09:04 a111 Logged on 2015-09-07 12:55 punkman: then http://news.slashdot.org/story/99/12/10/0821224/esr-writes-on-surprised-by-wealth >> and now http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6835
09:04 Framedragger yeah, "co-founders" are left with shares of shit class and shit amount thereof, it's a nice scam
09:05 mircea_popescu unlike whatever random thug that got killed dealing and started "riots", and who for no reason became "representative" of imaginary "social issues" - the story here, if deliberately blacked out, is nevertheless very representative. that schmuck stands, pars pro toto, for EVERYONE EVER in fiat lands.
09:05 Framedragger (and you may still need to play egregious taxes if in US, even before you get to exercise them etc)
09:05 mircea_popescu prolly should also link http://trilema.com/2015/you-know-what-gets-no-airplay-unflattering-truth/ for a more systematic expose.
09:07 mircea_popescu but if you want to know how the usg corrupt class siphons the public hreasury - look no further. that's the system, "acquisitions", government-mandated, like facebook buying some derpy app for $random_sum, and so on. "we gave you free money, now you give it back" goes the story.
09:07 shinohai LOL Microsoft buying LinkedIn ... will TOTALLY improve their security.
09:08 mircea_popescu the funny part being, of course, that nobody is pushing to "crack down on corruption" when it actually happens, ie, here. no, "cracking down on corruption" is Reich-speech for what happens in a recently conquered land, to destroy its local elite. that's what's meant when you say random noplace government harping about how they'll crack down on imaginary "corruption".
09:08 mircea_popescu a government recently installed, of course, through a push for "human rights" and "democracy", widely "embraced". ie, first destroy the state, then destroy the society, then it's time to walmart up.
09:09 Framedragger oh yeah already forgot about the password steal. lol. just fuck the entrepreneur world with a rake
09:10 mircea_popescu eh linkedin is the entrepreneur world like livejournal is the poet world.
09:12 Framedragger actually i'm sure there are some legit poets on LJ, heh.
09:12 Framedragger but yeah, i meant entrepreneur not in the etymological/definitional sense, but in the "currently attached bundle of crappy connotations" sense
09:13 mircea_popescu well, they're sorta like the girls watching tv hoping to one day grow up into oprah through the mediation of being rap video sluts. except they're boys, and they read reddit, and hope to one day "make a company that sells for billions".
09:13 mircea_popescu for all the pretense, the difference between these demos is vanishingly small if at all present.
09:13 Framedragger for sure.
09:14 Framedragger daddy's connections help with the arbitrary selection
09:14 mircea_popescu i suppose their respective gatherings are the sum total of such difference : less clothing, more sunshine and more perfume where the girlies gather. more armpit stains and bad shirts and neon lighting where the boys gather.
09:15 Framedragger and stickers on laptops because geek kultura and san francisco amirite
09:15 mircea_popescu nah, the girls have stickers on their phones.
09:15 shinohai https://i.imgur.com/C8Jj9DT.jpg (-__-)
09:15 mircea_popescu which, really, === laptops, for what "laptop" means today.
09:16 Framedragger smart watches (now with 9h of battery life!!1) are laptops t00!!
09:17 mircea_popescu http://jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2356 << nb.
09:18 Framedragger mircea_popescu: nb == nota bene? ?
09:18 Framedragger s/? ?/? :)/
09:21 mircea_popescu nod bad
09:23 Framedragger k
09:24 shinohai nb = nigger balls
09:24 shinohai Everyone knows that.
09:25 mircea_popescu and fuck do i love this dual format omfg. how did people irc pre blogs ? how do people blog w/o irc ? i guess they use twitter... but shit, it doesn't compare.
09:25 mircea_popescu stuff you don't feel like writing out in 1k words, interactive etc has a place. moreover, that place drives like a third or more of the longer pieces. it's a match made in heaven.
09:26 Framedragger need dat irc2wiki bot
09:26 Framedragger cycle may be complete then
09:26 mircea_popescu heh
09:26 mircea_popescu btw asciilifeform you gonna make a ticket set for phuctor ?
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09:27 mircea_popescu oh and mod6 - suppose i want to add the observation that really, the wallet functionality and the "caching transactions" functionality should be separated in bitcoin - there's no conceivable reason to store the latter in the former for instance. how would i go about adding this to the bitcoin tickets ? ask you ? do something myslef ?
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09:29 thestringpuller ticket 31
09:29 thestringpuller no?
09:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481480 << thinking about it. speaking of: whatever happened to the sr keys thing ?
09:29 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 13:26 mircea_popescu: btw asciilifeform you gonna make a ticket set for phuctor ?
09:30 mircea_popescu exactly nothing, guy melted in the woodwork.
09:30 asciilifeform sad
09:31 mircea_popescu well - it's what it is. there's a dedicated loafer community out there, adamant on "i shall not be useful". best filter them out asap.
09:31 asciilifeform i think he may have ended up kakoized
09:31 mircea_popescu i suppose in its own terms it makes sense, a sort of solipsistic revolt of the anal child. nevertheless... let jesus save them or whatever, we're busy.
09:34 Framedragger sr keys?
09:34 Framedragger $s "sr keys"
09:34 a111 3 results for "\"sr keys\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22sr%20keys%22
09:34 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481481 << the 'error: invalid or non-wallet tx !' response to gettx is infuriating idiocy
09:34 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 13:27 mircea_popescu: oh and mod6 - suppose i want to add the observation that really, the wallet functionality and the "caching transactions" functionality should be separated in bitcoin - there's no conceivable reason to store the latter in the former for instance. how would i go about adding this to the bitcoin tickets ? ask you ? do something myslef ?
09:35 Framedragger ahh " get pgp keys out of the gwen[sic] / sr dump"
09:35 Framedragger k
09:40 mircea_popescu Framedragger yeah ; and anything else interesting.
09:42 Framedragger probably an easy grep; all text uncompressed ~1.6TB; will keep it mind for laters
09:43 Framedragger someone also tried spidering ssh keys from .onion hosts, and then matching them with ssh keys of ipv4 space; i want to re-try that, too
09:43 mircea_popescu not a bad idea actually. guaranteed to de-"anonymise" at least a few
09:43 Framedragger low hanging fruits in opsec failures, volume one
09:43 Framedragger yeah.
09:44 mircea_popescu it's the correct approach ; what yielded phuctor also.
09:44 mircea_popescu what few know/recall today is that when we started it, the agreement was "it's not going to find anything".
09:44 Framedragger a, haha
09:44 Framedragger nice.
09:44 mircea_popescu pointless didactic exercise.
09:45 mircea_popescu this approach is to be continued systematically. much like a principal wanting to root out the crips from school is best advised to start with checking homework.
09:53 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
09:53 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 698.96, vol: 13232.27232420 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 678.323, vol: 16879.40469 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 700.0, vol: 118811.50957301 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 666.0, vol: 53.84785113 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 717.555564, vol: 79384.54930000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 698.058, vol: 4028.03762871 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 696.373668, vol: 192.66805272 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
09:55 shinohai In other acquisitions news: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3082771/symantec-to-acquire-blue-coat-for-465-billion.html#tk.rss_all
09:57 BingoBoingo ;;more
09:57 gribble average: 704.315170193
09:58 mircea_popescu Framedragger "the lie", you know. which is why hanno boeck ( http://trilema.com/2016/psa-hanno-bock-still-a-deceitful-shitbag/ ) et al went all in for the "nothing happened". derps are by and large conditioned to "think" that nothing happened because nothing happens because nothing can happen because nothing happened because...
09:59 mircea_popescu and so... "nothing happened".
10:00 mircea_popescu which is why this simple strategy is so effectual - magic tricks work by directing the chump's attention SPECIFICALLY because emulating reality is so damned expensive you can only economically do it in small installments. you'd better make damn sure that's where they're looking and ONLY where they're looking. nobody can fucking afford to give a coat of paint over EVERYTHING.
10:01 mircea_popescu so, always go after the places where "nobody'd ever look because nothing could ever be found because nobody'd ever look". total snakecharm.
10:11 Framedragger mircea_popescu: good point!
10:11 Framedragger particularize and shine light upon the particular cracks of the delusional reality model
10:11 * Framedragger should get a blog for ranting
10:12 mircea_popescu can't hurt.
10:16 Framedragger re. hanno: oh yeah? i had thought he had had a point, re. those broken subkeys not being used anyway. but i guess the point is that phuctor found some *actually used* keys, etc.
10:16 mircea_popescu i couldn't give less of a shit about the disparate bits of reality he tried to fashion a disavowal out of.
10:17 Framedragger k
10:17 mircea_popescu that's how the trick works, "but look at the hat, look at the hat"
10:18 mircea_popescu yes, there's a hat. now, about that table it sits on...
10:19 asciilifeform actually instructive example, it is worth elaborating on:
10:20 asciilifeform hannobockism took the very effective angle of 'nobody used the keyz' but really to keep chumps' attention on what it means to 'use' a key
10:21 mircea_popescu hm ?
10:21 asciilifeform and especially the fact that diddled key can trivially end up used without the victim's awareness
10:21 PeterL how do you know nobody used the keys?
10:21 mircea_popescu yeah the numerous instances of "hey listen, your key being diddled IS NOT ABOUT YOU! you'd never fucking know!" managed to get ignored something fierce huh.
10:21 asciilifeform recall, the shitgnomatic unified front against phuctor was exemplified by peter 'this ain't my key and go back to sleep' h anvin.
10:21 asciilifeform aha.
10:22 mircea_popescu aha.
10:22 mircea_popescu PeterL you wouldn't.
10:22 Framedragger these diddled keys.. they can just be re-uploaded to sks keyservers all the time, no? maybe keyservers should have a phuctor-like policy of rejecting shitty keys?
10:22 Framedragger PeterL: gpg client should reject subkeys not signed by master key or somesuch, was the argument i think
10:22 asciilifeform Framedragger: it comes up occasionally, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475913 -- nothing happens
10:22 a111 Logged on 2016-06-03 17:49 asciilifeform: http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/sks-devel/2015-05/msg00022.html << hilarious related thread from last year
10:23 asciilifeform the sks folk are dead set in favour of hosting random crapolade.
10:23 mircea_popescu i think it's more a case of "the last person who knew how any of this worked left a decade ago, we're just idea guys"
10:23 Framedragger right. that verification of self-signatures.. it is done by gpg clients tho, no?
10:23 mircea_popescu Framedragger famously unreliable, but yes, it ~is.
10:24 mircea_popescu anyway, lest the wrong impression forms - we don't have a good understanding of who did what to whom and why. it's not even clear we enumerated the classes of deeds that phuctor dredged up.
10:27 Framedragger sure.
10:35 mircea_popescu in other "repository of all human knowledge" news, i give you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakecharm
10:37 Framedragger "Complicating things is the fact that Danica is pregnant. Neither the serpiente nor the avians are crazy about the idea of a mixed-blood child taking the throne. A child of a cobra and another serpent is always a cobra, a child of a hawk and another avian is always a hawk." WELL BUT OBVIOUSLY
10:37 Framedragger lol
10:37 mircea_popescu chick's ~30, has been eking out a miserable existence in suburban mass writing one of the shitty books a year. and working ass off on "social media".
10:38 mircea_popescu living the dream, i guess.
10:39 Framedragger maybe it works for her, heh
10:39 mircea_popescu what else are her options ? too old to be "looking to be black owned".
10:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hey, writing pulp crapolade beats the SHIT out of showing up to an office.
10:46 asciilifeform any office.
10:46 mircea_popescu at least if she went to an office there'd be the remote possibility of getting some.
10:46 mircea_popescu you ever saw "the pianist" incidentally ?
10:47 asciilifeform the ww2 one ?
10:47 asciilifeform nope
10:47 mircea_popescu nah, some recent atrocity. a very insufferable woman lives a "civilised" life with her... mother, and postures a lot at work. her unwind is to sniff used rags in porn coinoperated booths.
10:48 asciilifeform l0l!
10:48 mircea_popescu "the piano teacher", turns out.
10:48 mircea_popescu the film is bad, as a film. but for people entirely unwarare of what curse women are upon themselves in isolation... a decent primer i guess.
10:52 mircea_popescu but to make it short and sweet : if she were the sort of six-deviations talented woman that'd benefit from what you imagine is "not having to show up in an office", she'd pointedly not be writing the sort of crap.
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10:53 mircea_popescu she isn't. she just hopes that 2007200820092020102011omgit'sbeenfiveyears!2012201320142015omfgwhere'sitallgone!2016 will be "the year of the hawk-cobra" or whatever the fuck. hey, it worked for that dumb broad, what's her name, that wrote those linkedin novels and sold them for 26 billion copies or what ? they even made a film about it, "whatsap!"
10:54 mircea_popescu maybe in 2017 people finally wake up to the realisation of how perfectly genre fiction at ~150 pages in paperback and of her exact vintage would fill the holes in their souls!
10:56 mircea_popescu (and for the ego - back in 2004 when i published asylum editor was like "isn't this a little short ?". apparently i was merely being pioneeric, the notion of "book" dropped half the pages past two decades, from 300something to 150ish.)
10:57 mircea_popescu (oh and one for the collectors, hey asciilifeform did you actually get chet to sign your copy ? iirc she signed less than half dozen all told.)
11:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope - passed up this chance, left it at home. but iirc ben_vulpes had his.
11:06 mircea_popescu ah right.
11:08 Framedragger more "entrepreneur" awesomeness https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11893830
11:09 Framedragger suspect at least half of "startups" are like that
11:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481565 << she writes the crapolade ~so as~ not to be confined in an office. just like folks will hide unsheathed knives up their arse, kill guards with bare teeth, whatever, to get out of the camp
11:10 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 14:52 mircea_popescu: but to make it short and sweet : if she were the sort of six-deviations talented woman that'd benefit from what you imagine is "not having to show up in an office", she'd pointedly not be writing the sort of crap.
11:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform men. you ever heard of women escape any sort of incarceration, that wasn't the owner coming to get the bitches back ?
11:12 asciilifeform nope
11:12 mircea_popescu so then.
11:12 Framedragger i don't know, i applaud her even what she writes is shit and even if her mind is shit, good for her, i think it's easy to sublimate jealousy that shit people can still function as "justified anger" or whatnot </armchair-mode>
11:12 asciilifeform dunno though, being an office inmate is such a clear-cut Bad Thing that all living things instinctively try to escape.
11:12 Framedragger *even if
11:12 mircea_popescu Framedragger "cto" best part. nigga, you might be the first CORPORATE OFFICER / mexican illegal combo in history.
11:12 asciilifeform like from forest fire.
11:13 Framedragger mircea_popescu: yeah lol
11:13 mircea_popescu Framedragger i applaud her too, which is why her scrawny ineffectual efforts get a link. nevertheless, it can't be said she's effectual. she isn't.
11:17 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-12#1481179 << flagged, but i got a handful leads as far as various work for food and lodgings places last weekend at four quarters
11:17 a111 Logged on 2016-06-12 01:50 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell phf Apparently the motor commune still wants for mechanic https://stlouis.craigslist.org/lbg/5630646192.html
11:17 mircea_popescu $up asciilifeform
11:17 deedbot asciilifeform voiced for 30 minutes.
11:17 Framedragger mircea_popescu: sure.
11:18 mircea_popescu phf you double as a car mechanic ?
11:18 asciilifeform can somebody explain to me why deedbot auth is slower than microshit win98 booting up ?
11:19 mircea_popescu cuz it's in lisp.
11:19 asciilifeform lolsp
11:19 Framedragger i wanted to say the same, and then run from asciilifeform
11:20 asciilifeform must be in elisp
11:20 asciilifeform or clojure.
11:20 mircea_popescu you can't say lisp without S!
11:20 Framedragger cue clojure compile times..... cue timeout
11:20 mircea_popescu that's why real men code in c-fuss-fuss. F is for fast!
11:20 asciilifeform true snob only writes in snobol.
11:21 mircea_popescu well, snob and pairs of girls that like passing cum.
11:21 Framedragger -[--->+<]>-------.-[--->+<]>.+++++.[---->+<]>+++.-[--->++<]>--.-------.--[--->+<]>---.--------------.-.++++++++++++.+++.-------------.--[--->+<]>-.+[->+++<]>++.+++++++++.+.++++++.++[->+++<]>++.+.----[->+++<]>.------------.[->+++<]>+.+++++++++++.------.[--->+<]>-.
11:21 asciilifeform Framedragger: brainfuck quine ?
11:22 Framedragger not quine, unfortunately
11:22 Framedragger https://sange.fi/esoteric/brainfuck/impl/interp/i.html
11:22 Framedragger look at dem loops, to set up ascii chars and then only work on offsets
11:26 trinque asciilifeform: yeah yeah I'm moving it to a new box already
11:28 trinque Framedragger: clojure is java wearing a lisp hairshirt
11:29 trinque the box is slow because there's this astonishingly IO intensive shitty key-value store called bitcoin running on it :D
11:29 mircea_popescu lies, moore's law would allow larger blocks.
11:29 asciilifeform trinque: solution is called renice
11:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you'd be surprised.
11:30 trinque asciilifeform: isn't there an ionice or something
11:30 trinque plenty of CPU
11:30 mircea_popescu incidentalyl, someone bored enough should do a survey of nice on extant linux decayed forms. it'd be a pretty good way to diagnose the utter ruin of the ecosystem.
11:30 PeterL trinque ^ http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481438 ?
11:30 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 12:57 PeterL: how to update to new key with deedbot?
11:31 asciilifeform trinque: ionice, aha, since kernel 2.6
11:32 trinque PeterL: I've yet to implement $changekey so sign me a message proving ownership of both keys indicating which you want to use and I'll do it
11:32 phf mircea_popescu: i grew up working on cars with my grandfather, was the main dacha activity, i figured what quality of car mechanic would people advertising food&loding on craigslist really need?
11:32 mircea_popescu ha. adventuresome!
11:32 mircea_popescu of course engines moved from carbureted to injected in the interval, but then again...
11:38 phf i'll just work it out from first principles :D as long as they don't kick me out in horror in the first few hours, i'd be fine
11:38 mircea_popescu careful with the johnson rod though.
11:41 phf that's where being foreigner helps, you call that thing "johnson rod" in russian we call it бачок для тормозной жидкости
11:41 asciilifeform l0l
11:41 mircea_popescu they have blinker fluid in english too.
11:43 mircea_popescu (incidentally, the argentines are THE WORST drivers. horribad. you know how latinos in the civilised world have a bad reputation ? well... im sure argentina is the reason for it. they signal ~1/3 of the time, you gotta guess they intend to turn or not - AND they have no conception of blinker fluid or any other way means or conceptual approach for the problem. it's just not fucking there. idjits.)
11:43 mircea_popescu it is so bad traffic here is 90% due to the people being unable to merge. and they're unable to merge because a) they don't signal and b) they're the sort of idiots that don't signal. and yet...
11:44 mircea_popescu nope, need has created to innovation to date. they'll sit and rot and think what they do is driving.
11:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu ever drove around anywhere in usa ?
11:45 asciilifeform we have these here.
11:45 mircea_popescu yeah. most likely argentine immigrants.
11:45 asciilifeform nah.
11:45 mircea_popescu these people should be excommunicated from the planet just for the driving.
11:46 mircea_popescu fucking crazed egyptians in cairo did a better job, and their idea of traffic lights was tooting the horn.
11:46 Framedragger hey i remember cairo; ok so it's worth than cairo; lolol.
11:46 Framedragger > yeah. most likely argentine immigrants.
11:46 Framedragger hahah
11:48 trinque houstonians never signal lane changes, and they do them at 100mph and 3 at a time
11:48 mircea_popescu Framedragger yeah. the difference being that while i wouldn't try to drive in cairo without getting a degree in it first, at least THEY manage to move things reasonably. here, i wouldn't drive unless i had an open license to kill and plentiful ammo, AND they have more traffic, fewer driven miles and more roads than anywhere in the world.
11:48 trinque keeps you awake on the highway
11:49 mircea_popescu trinque these people don't signal turning, forget lane change. at least on the highway there's some basis to guess on the basis of impulse and make. but in the city ?
11:49 Framedragger wow
11:49 Framedragger i mean, i guess it's a system for catalysed darwinian selection?..
11:49 Framedragger omg, sounds insane, how do they survive
11:49 mircea_popescu there is literally no way to know whether he goes straight or right until he does it. and they're so horrible they don't drive straight anyway. so...
11:49 diana_coman mircea_popescu, ever been in traffic in Naples? quite curious what you'd make of it
11:49 mircea_popescu Framedragger by being slow and stupid.
11:50 mircea_popescu diametric yeah, ok, it's about italian level of idiocy.
11:50 Framedragger amazing
11:50 mircea_popescu as most stupid shit in this country. or, come to think about it, ther world over.
11:50 * mircea_popescu adds "italians" to the list of excommunicables.
11:50 diana_coman ahahaha
11:50 mircea_popescu to think the nazis allied with them and wanted to burn the fucking gypos.
11:50 mircea_popescu i'd have gone the other way around. burn the italians.
11:51 diana_coman they make excellent pizza in the south...
11:52 diana_coman and excellent cars in the North really - or at any rate they used to make
11:56 phf asciilifeform: https://github.com/wolfgangj/bone-lisp another one of them small lisps, already with a bunch of idiosyncratic decisions, but notable for using regions for memory management (and hence immutable).
11:57 mircea_popescu diana_coman they also make excellent women in the south, but...
11:58 mircea_popescu sigh. see, this is the problem with trying to be a mad dictator in a rational way. everyone spokes your wheels!
11:59 diana_coman heh; truth be told men in the south were exactly like fat, ugly spiders: round, small, hairy and basically creeping around the corners at any given time
11:59 diana_coman could do without
11:59 mircea_popescu that's a peculiarly astute view of sicily.
12:00 mircea_popescu diametric you know that excellent mastroianni scene where the fatties eat up palermo ?
12:00 mircea_popescu darn i keep highlighting poor diametric when i want to say diana_coman
12:00 diana_coman hm, I don't think I know it
12:01 phf and here i thought diametric was somehow a particularly astute connoisseur of italian cinema
12:01 mircea_popescu ima fish it out, off to town nao
12:06 asciilifeform phf: so what is this, NEVER deallocates ?
12:09 phf asciilifeform: deallocates when you unroll frames, and i guess there are techniques to figure out how up the frame an object has moved from its allocation point
12:10 asciilifeform ick
12:10 asciilifeform who the fuck thought this was good idea, and why.
12:10 phf i heard of technique in a context of Abuse video game, where all the objects that were allocated during calculations for a single screen frame would be abandoned on next frame, which makes sense in this one particular case. i think maybe Seaside had support for that per-request. i guess people came up with formal ways of doing it
12:11 asciilifeform sounds about as 'clever' as my 'shiva' thing nuking its entire guts when you disconnect the term.
12:11 phf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Region-based_memory_management
12:15 phf i'm not sure how different it is from lifetime analysis (i mean when done automatically), and i can imagine a bunch of ways in which objects will still leak into some kind of global reclamation area
12:17 phf and this one is for BingoBoingo http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=58a_1464890232
12:21 asciilifeform http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68b_1437283356 << moar lulz from same rag
12:21 asciilifeform 'Police claim the man refused to drop a pocket knife. In the video, the officer appears to kick something away from the man’s body, although no object can be readily seen. In typical police fashion, officers can be seen handcuffing the victims body as he lay in a pool of blood.'
12:24 asciilifeform ;;ticker
12:24 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 693.87, Best ask: 694.6799999999999, Bid-ask spread: 0.81000, Last trade: 694.6799999999999, 24 hour volume: 145208.19495727, 24 hour low: 635.1, 24 hour high: 719.0, 24 hour vwap: None
12:25 asciilifeform ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-18#1409628 )
12:25 a111 Logged on 2016-02-18 16:46 asciilifeform has 2 lamps on his dial: 'oh noez, my coinz are worthless' and 'suxx, i'll never afford any moar'
12:29 asciilifeform phf: the approach illustrated in 'bone lisp' is ~equivalent to an ordinary scheme with strictly limited lifespan of whole session.
12:29 asciilifeform disposable, if you will.
12:31 phf it's the ml crowd, they still manage to dazzle me with their trinkets. and then i think about it for 5 minutes and go "waitaminute"
12:32 asciilifeform aha.
12:32 asciilifeform 'the devil's gold -- turns to leaves.'
~ 16 minutes ~
12:49 deedbot [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The Future of Finance is Now, translated. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/06/13/the-future-of-finance-is-now-translated/
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
13:57 Framedragger ..sooo, ~21.1M ssh hosts with port 22 open in ipv4 space. i expected more, but a time will come for a re-scan, and i finally got around to 'streamlining' the process, and vc's idontcareaboutscans policy helped here, so re-scan will be a piece of cake.
13:57 Framedragger this excludes most hetzner ip ranges because hetzner triggers a fuckload of abuse complaints. but i'll soon scan *only them* (which will anger them, and let the hate fiercely flow into /dev/null), which will a buncha hosts to that 21.1M i expect.
13:58 Framedragger trololololo.
13:58 Framedragger *add
13:59 Framedragger also, a bunch of /8 and /16s are empty. like 11.0.0.0/8 (used by whom? DoD of course) - these cunts
13:59 Framedragger this info will be crystallized and presented in a clear manner, eventually, of course!
~ 22 minutes ~
14:21 Framedragger * 20.8M of 22-port-open ssh servers after deduplication
↖
~ 2 hours 23 minutes ~
16:45 shinohai http://gizmodo.com/a-clip-on-motorized-cat-tail-is-your-first-step-to-beco-1781909950 <<< you gonna take the leap BingoBoingo ?
16:51 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu if you're fond of watching atlantises sink, https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7738104.html
16:51 gribble The operation succeeded.
16:55 trinque "why does openbsd use CVS? CVS sucks!11!"
16:56 trinque this.
16:56 phf asciilifeform: i was just about to work a bit on my de-poettterrring-ed gentoo laptop. did they break everything?
17:03 mircea_popescu diana_coman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0eApWMb92E <<< apparently it was napoli.
17:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ftr gentoo was never much more than a derpy hipsterism in my book.
17:11 diana_coman ha, quite; didn't know it though, thanks
17:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481698 << moving right along huh.
17:12 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 18:21 Framedragger: * 20.8M of 22-port-open ssh servers after deduplication
17:12 mircea_popescu diana_coman i'm pretty much convinced by now that what the ro crowds actually meant in 1989 by "wanting western democracy" was "we want italian tv"
17:17 diana_coman lol, I don't think they actually had any idea what they wanted (or meant for that matter)
17:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was the 1 quasi-working linux distro, other than 'make it all by hand'
17:20 asciilifeform i don't regard idiocies where you are expected to download binaries as 'linux.'
17:20 asciilifeform NEVER did.
17:25 asciilifeform phf: thread circa 2015. but if you have any boxes you haven't touched for >1y, you will have problem.
~ 23 minutes ~
17:48 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
17:48 gribble Current Blocks: 416177 | Current Difficulty: 1.9606142393964996E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 417311 | Next Difficulty In: 1134 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes, and 11 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
17:51 trinque ;;ticker
17:51 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 705.79, Best ask: 705.91, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 705.79, 24 hour volume: 133673.4340709, 24 hour low: 656.3099999999999, 24 hour high: 719.0, 24 hour vwap: None
17:51 trinque heh, fun
17:57 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu moar circus clowns: https://github.com/joshua-m-david/jerichoencryption << there is a pestilential profusion of these 'i'ma STROOOONG CRYYYPTO!!1111 IN NODEJS !111' out there.
17:57 gribble The operation succeeded.
17:58 mircea_popescu le sigh.
18:04 mircea_popescu btw, the dude that impregnated four "corrections officers" while in jail ? terrence white, at the time boss of "black guerilla family" which apparently is a sort of black crips/mob device
18:05 asciilifeform mega-unsurprise ?
18:05 mircea_popescu merely shows it to be no accident.
18:05 asciilifeform or did mircea_popescu previously think that it had been a defrocked accountant imprisoned for 40 unpad parking tickets.
18:05 asciilifeform *unpaid
18:06 mircea_popescu i thought nothing in particular tbh
18:06 mircea_popescu maybe he was really good with the gab. it's been known to happen.
18:06 asciilifeform there was once a 'crime museum' in washington, with, e.g., famous electric chairs, bonnie & clyde's car, etc.
18:07 asciilifeform it had some (i forget who) 'godfather' type's prison cell, re-created
18:07 asciilifeform was spiffier than any office or living room i've ever personally stuck my snout into
18:07 asciilifeform gold-plated brass everything, telephones, the whole orchestra.
18:07 asciilifeform humidor.
18:08 mircea_popescu eh that stuff'll kill ya.
18:13 mircea_popescu http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=526 << this is actually a surprising cogent summary, esp considering the source. i wonder who he's stolen from.
18:14 asciilifeform 'I give you Count Okuma of the Tokyo Hochi, “…a race of thieves with the hearts of rabbits. America to any warrior race, is not as a foe, but as an immense melon, ripe for the cutting…North America alone will support a billion people; that billion shall be Japanese with their slaves. Not arid Asia, not worn out Europe (which, with its peculiar and quaint relics and customs, should in the interest of history and culture, be in a
18:14 asciilifeform ny case preserved), nor yet tropical Africa, is fit for our people. But North America, that continent so succulently green, fresh, and unsullied—except for the few chattering mongrel Yankees…”' << win.
18:15 mircea_popescu just how fast do you read.
18:15 asciilifeform depends.
18:21 mircea_popescu anyway. vampirism and the interest thereof has traditionally been a gay outlet ; not peculiarly a race outlet. the race outlet (in the us, which is ~the only place that cares) has traditionally been "aliens", which are almost always niggers.
18:22 mircea_popescu which is why they keep "stealing our wiminz", are all "half demon half child", and always run by a brood mother which sprouts indistinct babies without a father.
18:23 mircea_popescu maybe 3 in a hundred hollywood movies about "Science fiction" are anything even vaguely out of the mold of thinly veiled nigger wank.
18:24 mircea_popescu otherwise, the observation that pearl harbour was just exactly as much a dog and pony show of "no one could have foreseen" as the 9/11 stuff is important.
18:24 asciilifeform 'kick the dog till it bites, then shoot it' (tm) (r)
18:24 mircea_popescu not exactly clear who was kicking japan.
18:25 asciilifeform usg.
18:25 asciilifeform petroembargo.
18:25 asciilifeform and diddling in china, ~exactly like in modern ua
18:25 mircea_popescu and how ? for one thing, "usg" scarcely mattered at the time. for the other, thebrits denied the russians their ports.
18:25 mircea_popescu i dun see the historical backing for your reading.
18:26 mircea_popescu lest the reader be confused, let it be pointed out that pre ww1, the united states carried about as much credit in europe (aka, the world) as argentina does today. hardly anyone gave a shit about them, and the us president visiting couldn't get a hotel room on credit.
18:27 asciilifeform http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1930 << one overview.
18:27 asciilifeform 'Accordingly, the Roosevelt administration, while curtly dismissing Japanese diplomatic overtures to harmonize relations, imposed a series of increasingly stringent economic sanctions on Japan. In 1939 the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty with Japan. “On July 2, 1940, Roosevelt signed the Export Control Act, authorizing the President to license or prohibit the export of essential defense materials.” Under this
18:27 asciilifeform authority, “[o]n July 31, exports of aviation motor fuels and lubricants and No. 1 heavy melting iron and steel scrap were restricted.” Next, in a move aimed at Japan, Roosevelt slapped an embargo, effective October 16, “on all exports of scrap iron and steel to destinations other than Britain and the nations of the Western Hemisphere.” Finally, on July 26, 1941, Roosevelt “froze Japanese assets in the United States, thus b
18:27 asciilifeform ringing commercial relations between the nations to an effective end. One week later Roosevelt embargoed the export of such grades of oil as still were in commercial flow to Japan.”[2] The British and the Dutch followed suit, embargoing exports to Japan from their colonies in southeast Asia.'
18:27 mircea_popescu in... 41 ?!
18:28 asciilifeform war wasn't declared until dec. 7, 41.
18:28 mircea_popescu for some reason i was discussing more like 1900.
18:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu did say 'pearl harbour' no ?
18:29 mircea_popescu anyway, the ww2 hostilities were a mutually ratcheting of various acts, i don't see the argument. if they sold to japan it would have been === selling to germany.
18:29 asciilifeform with which there was no war yet.
18:29 mircea_popescu in 41 ?
18:29 asciilifeform aha.
18:29 asciilifeform usa was not in the war!1111
18:29 mircea_popescu as in what, declared ?
18:29 mircea_popescu yeah well.
18:30 asciilifeform and various american industrialists were busy as bees selling to germany.
18:30 asciilifeform everything from scrap iron, to calculating machinez, to fischer-tropsch process.
18:31 mircea_popescu complicated.
18:34 mircea_popescu “The Chinese coolie is the ideal industrial machine, the perfect human ox. He will transform less food into more work, with less administrative friction, than any other creature...Also, they cost nothing but money.” << from what i understand this is getting fixed these days.
18:35 asciilifeform http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/isis-unveiled-us-kill-list-last-week-including-600-florida-residents << moar lulzies.
18:38 mircea_popescu what is this, people sick of paying for retirement homes fantasizing ?
18:42 asciilifeform nfi.
18:49 BingoBoingo speaking of coolies mod6, asciilifeform et al: anyone ever use a hexbit drill chuck to make holes using an impact driver?
18:49 BingoBoingo coolies of course being the power tools
18:49 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: sure.
18:50 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Satisfactory performance? Is drilling with impact driver better than driving with drill?
18:50 asciilifeform in what ?
18:51 BingoBoingo wood, plastic, zamac
18:51 asciilifeform wtf would you impact driver wood or plastic.
18:51 mircea_popescu ^
18:51 BingoBoingo To secure lag bolts!
18:51 mircea_popescu the thing is ~for concrete, wtf are you doing.
18:51 asciilifeform ^
18:51 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: No that is a hammer drill
18:51 asciilifeform why not, in same spirit, dynamite.
18:51 mircea_popescu also don't use common dril bits on metal you'll fuck everything up. get special.
18:52 BingoBoingo $google "impact driver" vs "hammer drill"
18:52 mircea_popescu metal is ductile, unlike all other materials (wood, concrete, etc) which are friable.
18:52 deedbot http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/drills-vs-hammer-drills-vs-impact-drivers/ << Drills vs Hammer Drills vs Impact Drivers - The Wood Whisperer | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWmZTHD2tFw << Drill vs Impact Driver vs Impact Wrench vs Hammerdrill - YouTube | http://www.ebay.com/gds/Impact-Driver-vs-Hammer-Drills-/10000000177630394/g.html << Impact Driver vs. Hammer Drills | eBay
18:53 BingoBoingo Anyways chuck on old drill no longer retains bits and fucking retaining screw is stuck with loctite from the factory
18:53 mircea_popescu lol!
18:53 mircea_popescu talk of fucking empires.
18:53 asciilifeform for fucks sake BingoBoingo get a working drill.
18:53 BingoBoingo Anyways hammer drill does forward pushing. Impact driver does torque and more torque.
18:53 mircea_popescu how to kill yourself, volume 44 : save on drills.
18:55 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I *had* a working drill. Can still have working drill If I want to gamble on sovent to beat this flavor of loctite without also disolving plastic.
18:55 BingoBoingo Or I guess solving plastic is the bigger threat
~ 19 minutes ~
19:14 * BingoBoingo wishes someone would make a drill with a nice 2-cyle motor instead of this lithium ion bullshit.
19:14 asciilifeform ugh
19:14 asciilifeform just shoot the hole, it is moar humane.
19:16 BingoBoingo That seems like a presumptuous suggestion without knowing what the hole is for...
19:17 shinohai Perhaps glory hole?
19:17 BingoBoingo Nah broom sitting hole
19:27 mod6 <+BingoBoingo> speaking of coolies mod6, asciilifeform et al: anyone ever use a hexbit drill chuck to make holes using an impact driver? << not sure if I've ever done that specifically. done a lot of impact/air-ratchet wrench work on cars. tons of misc shit with drills.
19:34 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> oh and mod6 - suppose i want to add the observation that really, the wallet functionality and the "caching transactions" functionality should be separated in bitcoin - there's no conceivable reason to store the latter in the former for instance. how would i go about adding this to the bitcoin tickets ? ask you ? do something myslef ? << you certainly can feel free to help me round out the t
19:34 mod6 rb ticket list -- just use add/edit/remove as needed.
19:35 mod6 If I were to do it, i might just add a note in ther ethat says "wallet functionality and ``caching transactions'' need to be perm. separated."
19:35 mod6 %p trb 30
19:35 tb0t Project: trb, ID: 30, Type: I, Subject: Investigate a new design for the Wallet, Antecedents: , Notes: An investigation must be conducted to create a specification for a reimplemented wallet. The outcome of this will drive ticket 29.
19:36 mod6 Probably would just tack it on the notes here. Sound ok?
19:36 mod6 and while I'm at it here... I have been considering schemes for doing longer notes. will keep working on that.
19:37 mod6 meanwhile, I've created a v-genesis.vpatch
19:38 mod6 and while using V, can use it to press out a new V. that part is happy enough. but there is a new feature that needs to be implemented for V: The ability to have separate projects.
19:38 mod6 which it kinda does -- but V, in its current form, expects all vpatches and seals to be in http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/
19:39 mod6 and since now we have; trb, t, v, ... and many others probably forthcoming, one should need to specify what they want to pull down locally.
↖
19:39 mod6 so it would be something like: /v/, /trb/, /t/, /gossipd/ or whatever.
19:39 mod6 I haven't started work in that direction yet, just wanted to bring it up.
19:42 mod6 What does this mean for us: It means that I need to implement the ability to grab named projects from the mirror. This will require a new version of V (99994), updating documentation et. al.
19:43 mod6 Which also means, it almost makes no sense to even publish the v-genesis.vpatch that I currently have as it is no use to anyone if they can't grab a canonical version from the mirror. All they'd be able to do is get it from the mailing list, with the seal, and drop it into their local working directory as one would expect.
↖ ↖
19:44 mod6 Which would be fine, but seems like I should just wait until after 99994, then one can grab V, and use V to do V things. It's a mind bender. :]
19:46 mod6 get a load of this: http://dpaste.com/1T5SZCA.txt
19:46 mircea_popescu mod6 sounds ok. i'm just trying to figure out how to best employ your power wrench is all :)
19:47 mod6 Cool.
19:47 mircea_popescu good point re... v localization lol
19:47 mircea_popescu ideally : items should live in a dir = the genesis hash.
19:47 mircea_popescu none of this "trb". just make a dir like /7ad78d387187350 or w/e
19:48 mod6 ok. i kinda like that.
19:48 mircea_popescu ~that~ is the only correct representation of what's in there anyway
19:48 mircea_popescu and there's symlinks if anyone wants to alias.
↖
19:48 mircea_popescu well, on sane systems there's simlinks at least.
19:48 mod6 yeah, i might need to alias as 7ad78d38... might get unwieldy for users.
19:49 mod6 but sure, makes some sense.
19:50 mircea_popescu so you cd trb and it takes you to it.
19:50 mircea_popescu or w/e.
19:51 mod6 yeah, i'll have to work out something with that. i think on the server side, the hash value as dir name is a nice touch
19:51 mod6 cause that's really what we care about.
19:51 mircea_popescu aha
19:51 mod6 %pc
19:52 tb0t Ticket Type Codes: C => CHANGE | D => DEFECT | F => FEATURE | I => INVESTIGATE | R => REFERENCE | S => SAGA | T => TASK | X => DOCUMENT
19:53 mod6 %a v S "Release V 99994" "Publish new version of V [99994]."
19:54 mod6 %a v X "Update V Documentation" "Update V documentation for 99994 release."
19:55 mod6 %a v T "Update Tests" "Update V cucumber tests for 99994 with specific testing around separate projects."
19:57 mod6 %a v T "Update V" "Implement ability for V to pull separate projects from the mirror based on hash (or possible alias)."
19:59 mod6 %a v T "Publish V-Genesis" "Publish V-Genesis post 99994 release." 1
20:00 mod6 %e v 1 S "Release V 99994" "Publish new version of V [99994]." 2,3
20:00 mod6 %e v 2 X "Update V Documentation" "Update V documentation for 99994 release." 4
20:00 shinohai ^ kewl
20:00 mod6 %e v 3 T "Update Tests" "Update V cucumber tests for 99994 with specific testing around separate projects." 4
20:04 mod6 we'll see if i did that all backwards lol.
20:05 mod6 anyway, the good news is; its not chiseled into stone.
20:05 mod6 can edit.
20:07 mircea_popescu :p
20:08 mod6 %a t S "Update tb0t with Long Notes" "After the implementation of the Long Notes feature, roll out new version of tb0t."
20:09 mod6 %e t 1 S "Update tb0t with Long Notes" "After the implementation of the Long Notes feature, roll out new version of tb0t." 1
20:09 mod6 derp
20:09 mod6 %e t 1 S "Update tb0t with Long Notes" "After the implementation of the Long Notes feature, roll out new version of tb0t." 2
20:10 mod6 %a t F "Add Long Notes Feature" "Implement functionality so that users of T can create notes longer than 300 chars if necessary."
20:10 mod6 omg we've got projects and verk
20:12 mircea_popescu >D
20:19 mod6 ah cool, my graph did turn out right. lol. "i can use my own thing!"
20:19 * mod6 ^5's himself
20:21 shinohai :D
~ 15 minutes ~
20:36 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> you can't say lisp without S! << heheh. "lithp"
20:37 mircea_popescu :d
20:38 mod6 arg. what a long day. can't believe it's already the thirteenth
20:47 mircea_popescu ha!
20:48 mircea_popescu hey asciilifeform got a link to where you made the point in the log that most of what sane people do consists of cleaving the practical from the metaphysical or such ?
↖
20:49 mircea_popescu i recall the word cleave being used but teh search is unhelpful
20:56 shinohai http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/world/europe/france-stabbing-police-officer-magnanville.html <<< Anarchy!
20:59 trinque when you sit down to take a shit, but there's no paper, that's ISIS!
20:59 shinohai lol
~ 26 minutes ~
21:26 deedbot [Qntra] Walgreens Finally Cuts Ties With Theranos - http://qntra.net/2016/06/walgreens-finally-cuts-ties-with-theranos/
21:27 BingoBoingo ^ for all your daily dose of valuation lols
21:33 deedbot [Trilema] Republican Thesaurus with Vocabulary and Dictionary! - http://trilema.com/2016/republican-thesaurus-with-vocabulary-and-dictionary/
21:33 mircea_popescu ^ if anyone has suggestions...
↖ ↖
21:38 phf BingoBoingo: i think there are cases where impact driver applies, like if your bit gets stuck in metal, and you want to power through it, but like others said, don't drill metal with general bits. i've used impact driver on large wood builds and it's a joy to use, the torgue makes for a very rapid but controlled coupling. i think i might've grabbed one to do drilling in a pinch, but i wouldn't say i noticed much difference one way or
21:38 phf another. it's definitely harder to make a precise hole with an impact driver too.
21:39 BingoBoingo Aha ty phf
21:42 phf basically that rapid torgue will help where you need torgue (like with a stuck bit), but hinder where you need precision, like if the end started running you'll scrape whatever
21:45 BingoBoingo ic
21:45 ben_vulpes do not impact driver your destructive fasteners.
21:45 BingoBoingo Seriously though who the fuck decided to use loctite to secure a wear item
21:45 phf hehe
21:46 ben_vulpes it is perhaps forgivable if you Swear to God to not back the lag bolt out and ever use the hole for anything ever again, but that is straight up dangerous because you cannot make guarantees about who will do what with your holes out of your sight.
21:47 mircea_popescu that's girl talk.
21:48 ben_vulpes useful when you have a nut on the far side. the hammer helps to overcome static friction on the bolt/nut planes, thereby letting you twist the bolt a little further.
21:48 ben_vulpes kinda like the "don't break and turn" at the same time mantra.
21:48 ben_vulpes vibration drops your axial friction, and to a degree your planar friction.
21:48 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: perhaps, but my pyres held numerous people and were assemblableable by noobs on drugs with a minimum of oversight.
21:49 mircea_popescu assemblableable holy shit.
21:49 ben_vulpes one does not haul a thing to the playa unfurled.
21:49 phf ben_vulpes: you cannot make guarantees about who will do what with your holes? how so? you mean for long term construction?
21:50 ben_vulpes or perhaps some do, i never got to party with the 3lite sillicon valley crowd
21:50 ben_vulpes phf: naw i mean like overtorquing and wallowing out a destructive fastener hole.
21:50 phf pfft put a second bolt next to first one :D
21:51 ben_vulpes the design was 3 bolts through 3 beams at each intersection point
21:51 trinque assemblableable << lost all composure right hnnyah
21:52 mircea_popescu get the girls all drugged up, make them pronounce "assemblableable" evening's entertainment right there!
21:53 ben_vulpes i'm trying to dig up the original source of this design and completely failing
21:53 ben_vulpes i swear i didn't invent this one!
21:53 ben_vulpes but it is rigid as *fuck*
21:53 ben_vulpes each beam has 2 bolts through it
21:54 ben_vulpes at right angles
21:55 mircea_popescu basic mortise and tenon neh ?
21:55 ben_vulpes mnah, mortise and tenon has the beam itself shaped into tongues and grooves to sit into itself
21:55 mircea_popescu and then bolted.
21:56 ben_vulpes pff if you're a girl
21:56 mircea_popescu ...
21:56 mircea_popescu what else do you bolt, the bare beam for ornamentation ?
21:56 phf well, since it sounds like we're both talking from burn build experience, some people get impact drills and some don't. if i overtorque i just put a second one next to it. it's not pretty, but it ensures that bunch of drugged out hippies can do somersaults on the thing
21:57 phf but ultimately cuts my build time. there's only so many days you can spend building a wood structure in 50 degree direct sun desert hit
21:57 phf *heat
21:57 ben_vulpes factors of safety come in many flavors
21:58 ben_vulpes i learned on the mutant vehicles before doing any pyreworks, so have a built-in preference for reusable steel stuffs
21:58 ben_vulpes not that any bolt is reusable after that kind of fire tho
22:01 phf i've been building with the same master carpenter so we usually start with a pile of wood, pile lag bolts and dodgy plans from various artist friends, so speed and malleability are prime considerations
22:02 phf but yeah i don't imagine any of that stuff is reusable after a burn
22:03 ben_vulpes i think that's why i like working on the mvs
22:03 ben_vulpes that capital is recoupable yo
22:04 phf well, it helps that you're within driving distance from site
22:06 ben_vulpes 35 ish hours?
22:06 phf also we are burning bmorg money anyway :D
22:06 ben_vulpes in big hulking slow gas guzzling rigs
22:06 ben_vulpes THE BESTEST RIGS
22:07 ben_vulpes phf: bless the borg
22:07 phf well, then i've no idea how you work on mvs unless you go to oakland for summer pre event or something
22:07 ben_vulpes one bus is fully collapsible
22:07 ben_vulpes just looks like a decommissioned avis bus with a platform on top during the rainy parts of the year
22:08 phf fits in carry on?
22:08 ben_vulpes no, one drives it down
22:08 phf :p
22:08 ben_vulpes oh it ain't 35 hours at all
22:08 ben_vulpes more like 10
22:08 ben_vulpes but i do like my summer lake stop
22:11 phf i take it with baby vulpes you're not coming this year?
22:13 phf in any case portland to nevada looks like a great drive, i think i'm going to do a purely recreational drive from colorado or wyoming
22:13 phf this year
22:14 ben_vulpes phf: i dun really 'burn' anymore
22:15 phf an upstanding, respectable gentleman :p
22:15 ben_vulpes i just lost patience with other people's bullshit
22:16 ben_vulpes my multiple-week-summer-vacation is now to a house on the sound side of vancouver island where we play music extremely loudly eat all sorts of interesting things and motor about on each others motorthingers
22:17 ben_vulpes is now in year 4 of celebrations
22:17 ben_vulpes hah perhaps five?!
22:17 phf i think that's a pretty common transition
22:17 ben_vulpes unfortunately, because it's in canada (and this is in no way different from the burn) there are no firearms to discharge irresponsibly
22:19 BingoBoingo http://epmonthly.com/article/effective-pain-control-%EF%BF%BCin-mass-casualty-events/
22:21 phf i rarely have an inclination to bring rifle to burn like events, and the kind of events that allow rifles are a bit too beer&jesus for my taste. or whatever jesus substitute they do dawkins science.
22:23 phf the cross over of young people who are into burn like events and young people who are into shootin'&dune buggies is particularly obnoxious in u.s.
22:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-19#1377638 ?
22:31 a111 Logged on 2016-01-19 21:55 ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: try to understand the perspective of inventor. for x,xxx years churchmen prattled on about sex and reproduciton 'cannot cut apart'. and now they can go get stuffed.
22:31 asciilifeform (re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-14#1481870 )
22:31 a111 Logged on 2016-06-14 00:48 mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform got a link to where you made the point in the log that most of what sane people do consists of cleaving the practical from the metaphysical or such ?
22:34 asciilifeform ah nm he found it.
~ 18 minutes ~
22:53 asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481818 << nooooooooooo this is catastrophic mistake. rationally pulling down the deps for the thing you want is WHY WE HAVE V.
22:53 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 23:39 mod6: and since now we have; trb, t, v, ... and many others probably forthcoming, one should need to specify what they want to pull down locally.
22:53 gribble The operation succeeded.
22:54 asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 if i want trb i don't need to ask for '/trb/whateverthefuck-fixes-retardation.vpatch', asking for whateverthefuck-fixes-retardation.vpatch must suffice !
22:54 gribble The operation succeeded.
22:54 asciilifeform the segmentation into 'projects' is unnecessary carryover from old world.
22:55 asciilifeform if i want to use, e.g., shiva genesis, in some other tool, there is no reason to duplicate it
22:55 asciilifeform should be able to simply... use.
22:55 asciilifeform it is THERE, after all.
22:58 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481822 << mircea_popescu made a very convincing argument in favour of ~not~ having a central repo of any kind, but rather - if anything - a streamlined mechanism for each lord (including mod6 & ben_vulpes under the banner of trb foundation) to put ~his own trb~ in usable format on ~his own~ www
22:58 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 23:43 mod6: Which also means, it almost makes no sense to even publish the v-genesis.vpatch that I currently have as it is no use to anyone if they can't grab a canonical version from the mirror. All they'd be able to do is get it from the mailing list, with the seal, and drop it into their local working directory as one would expect.
22:58 asciilifeform ( mircea_popescu do you happen to have the link handy to this thread ? )
23:03 mircea_popescu no ; but it stands to reason. he's not coming in conflict with that is he ?
23:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform re cleaving thing : found it, credited it to you in latest trilema.
23:04 asciilifeform yeah saw
23:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481822 << the 'canonical version' thing is what made my ears stand
23:04 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 23:43 mod6: Which also means, it almost makes no sense to even publish the v-genesis.vpatch that I currently have as it is no use to anyone if they can't grab a canonical version from the mirror. All they'd be able to do is get it from the mailing list, with the seal, and drop it into their local working directory as one would expect.
23:04 asciilifeform it is the easy solution, but imho mistake.
23:05 mircea_popescu uh. i dun think what you're thinking about is being discussed.
23:05 asciilifeform if we duplicate shithub, it will be a loss.
23:05 asciilifeform re yesterday's lulz:
23:06 asciilifeform 'When asked during the news conference if there was a chance that people might have been struck by friendly fire or in the crossfire, Chief Mina said: “I will say that is all part of the investigation. But I will say when our SWAT officers, about eight or nine officers, opened fire, their backdrop was a concrete wall. And they were being fired upon, so that is all part of the investigation.”'
23:06 asciilifeform ^ who speaks like this...?
23:07 mircea_popescu idiots ?
23:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform let's go into detail here. so, the observation was, that as v is used in multiple projects, it makes no sense all the files be dumped in the same directory. this is sound. what directory shall they be dumped into ?
23:08 mircea_popescu logically, it can only be the name of the genesis block.
23:08 asciilifeform 'Gov. Rick Scott of Florida said on Monday that he had asked Mr. Obama to issue a federal emergency declaration for his state. “Yesterday’s terror attack was an attack on our state and entire nation,” Mr. Scott said in a statement. “This morning, I have asked President Obama to declare an emergency so that the full resources of the federal government can be made available for all those impacted by this horrific massacre.” I
23:08 asciilifeform n a letter to Mr. Obama, Mr. Scott sought two forms of federal aid: “provision of health and safety measures,” as well as “management, control and reduction of immediate threats to public health and safety.” An emergency declaration would give Florida up to $5 million in initial federal funding.'
23:08 mircea_popescu because, as darn.
23:08 mircea_popescu because, for any given genesis block, the possible patches are universally available ; and the only way to obtain variant builds is through pruning the sigs.
23:09 mircea_popescu there is no such thing as "cannonical", but there is a "total patch universe".
23:09 asciilifeform correct
23:09 mircea_popescu alrighty.
23:09 asciilifeform though it is moar correct to think of one's 'patch light cone'
23:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-08#1400017 << see also.
23:10 a111 Logged on 2016-02-08 20:09 ascii_butugychag: i will half-seriously suggest that we refer to the ~set of patches, seals, keys~ that a particular vtron is aware of at his particular point in spacetime, as... his lightcone
23:10 mircea_popescu seriously, $5mn is what "an emergency" is worth ?
23:10 mircea_popescu costs more in traffic disruption.
23:10 asciilifeform hey that's lowball figure - a start.
23:10 mircea_popescu pfff.
23:16 mod6 so i kinda see this in two ways. either i place v/t/whatever into /v/ and we have many multiple roots, inwhich case when you pull from the mirror you end up with the following dirs: bitcoin, t, v, whatever, ... or we can break this up into multiple projects.
23:16 mircea_popescu what do you mean multiple roots ?
23:16 phf something to keep in mind is that vpatch paths already include top level directory, like for example all the bitcoin ones are bitcoin/... so pressing them into an empty directory foo will result in foo/bitcoin/... tree
23:17 mod6 and in this case, some of these things are somewhat related, and that might be ok. but in the future, there might be things that are not so closely related. so might be trying to get out in front and make this able to handle multiple projects by seperating them out.
23:17 mod6 mircea_popescu: i mean, if i have genesis.vpatch (trb) and v-genesis.vpatch in http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/
23:18 mod6 these are multiple roots.
23:18 mircea_popescu mod6 the part where each press should end up collected in the /genesis-hash/ dir is settled, i thought ?
23:18 mircea_popescu phf the problem is there's no good way to extract that alias string. maybe yours is bitcoin and mine is Bit-coin
23:19 mod6 one inflates the trb universe into bitcoin, the other into v. i guess it doesn't have to be that way.. v-genesis could be added later on down the line as a leaf node. but then it probably shouldn't be named "genesis" as that seems to break the convention.
23:19 mircea_popescu uh. what ?!
23:19 mod6 mircea_popescu: well, i think it's a better, cleaner practice.
23:19 mod6 just trying to address alf's messages.
23:20 mircea_popescu yeah but i'm totally lost as to what you're saying. looky : v works by starting with a genesis. correct ?
23:20 mod6 yes
23:20 mircea_popescu now, why not put its work product in a directory named for the genesis employed ?
23:20 mod6 agreed.
23:20 mircea_popescu that solves everything. and a different project will necessary have a diff genesis, so separated.
23:22 mod6 im fine with this too -- alf sees this as a mistake. so just thought I'd take a minute to address the alternative. unless there is something that I haven't considered? asciilifeform? suggestions?
23:22 mircea_popescu i didn't realise he saw this as a mistake either!
23:22 asciilifeform the alternative is to discard the notion of project re vpatches
23:22 mod6 let's paint a picture.
23:22 mircea_popescu eh that'll produce windows.
23:23 mircea_popescu i dun wanna build windows.
23:23 asciilifeform i don't see how
23:23 mod6 let's say that i have this project called `t'. and I'd like to make it readily availble and a genesis for this specific tool.
23:23 mod6 where should this vpatch live?
23:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform because "everything together" monolith ?
23:24 mircea_popescu mod6 in /8a5485a/ provided "8a5485a" is the genesis' hash
23:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't see why a genesis with hash H has to be 'meta'-limited to only be antecedentable as 'part of project P'
23:24 asciilifeform vs always and forever, wherever.
23:24 asciilifeform so long as i invoke H as precedent - it is valid.
23:24 asciilifeform regardless of where or why.
23:24 asciilifeform perhaps H is hash of 'hamlet'.
23:24 asciilifeform and i want to quote it twice. whatever.
23:25 mircea_popescu you'll have to rebase.
23:25 mircea_popescu also, you can't have two genesis-es.
23:25 asciilifeform sure as fuck you can
23:25 asciilifeform we ALREADY DO
23:25 mircea_popescu each creates its own universe.
23:25 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=experimental&search= << example.
23:26 mircea_popescu i see only one.
23:26 asciilifeform 'each own universe' until i invoke both and suddenly - collapsed into one.
23:26 mircea_popescu there can only be one.
23:26 mircea_popescu you can't "invoke both". you mean de-genesis one ?
23:26 asciilifeform nope
23:26 asciilifeform until i create patch with G1 and G2 as antecedents.
23:27 mircea_popescu then you're not making any sense. there can be exactly 1 genesis for any press, build, v etc.
23:27 asciilifeform they are still genesi
23:27 mircea_popescu mno.
23:27 asciilifeform nooope.
23:27 mircea_popescu this is the definition of this term. "the first item".
23:27 asciilifeform a genesis is simply a vpatch with no antecedents.
23:27 mircea_popescu mno.
23:27 mircea_popescu "a genesis" makes no sense ; vpatches with no antecendents are merely that - vpatches with no antecedents. the genesis is the first item.
23:28 asciilifeform there is no such animal in v as it exists today.
23:28 mircea_popescu mmm
23:28 asciilifeform look at, e.g., shiva.
23:28 asciilifeform it has unmistakeably dual genesis.
23:28 asciilifeform trb-genesis, and shiva-genesis.
23:28 asciilifeform neither has antecedents.
23:28 asciilifeform each creates the respective foundational thing out of thin air.
23:29 mircea_popescu where is this item ?
23:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_shiva_part_1_of_2 << the shiva genesis.
23:30 mircea_popescu yeah ; well iirc that was a broken early experimental attempt by you ?
23:30 asciilifeform it isn't broken in any sense
23:30 mircea_popescu part 2 of 2 behaves correctly in teh tree.
23:30 asciilifeform part 2 DOESN'T TOUCH part 1
23:30 asciilifeform so they are not v-relatives.
23:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the sense that it fails to attack to the tree it is very broken. i have no idea why a v build would even include it.
23:30 mircea_popescu actually : a v build that, upon pressing genesis, includes 1-of-2 is ipso facto broken.
23:31 asciilifeform this is quite true.
23:31 mircea_popescu so then...
23:31 asciilifeform the only way to build shiva is by pressing dual-headed.
23:31 mircea_popescu there is not nor should there be such a rthing as "dual headed".
23:32 mircea_popescu and to my eyes this is an essential point of wtf we're even doing here in the first place.
23:32 asciilifeform actually i'm sold on this
23:32 asciilifeform since the last time we had this thread.
23:33 asciilifeform if anybody wants to roll shiva in as part of his lineage, i recommend linking up part1 and part2 as mircea_popescu describes here.
23:33 asciilifeform (simply add comment in the part1 items as part of part2 patch)
23:33 mircea_popescu word.
23:34 BingoBoingo ;;goxlag
23:34 mod6 so we are agreed then that things outside of the trb light-cone, get its own light-cone - a multiverse of things, yeah?
23:34 gribble Error: "goxlag" is not a valid command.
23:34 asciilifeform mod6: not the concept i had in mind.
23:34 asciilifeform 'light cone' is simply ALL vpatches, by ANYONE, that you know about.
23:35 asciilifeform say it turns out that nsa was using v, and their patch leaks, even this is 'part of my lightcone'
23:35 asciilifeform in that i COULD use it (if i took enough dope)
23:36 asciilifeform this idea only ever could become actually important as time marches on and things are lost.
23:36 mod6 don't add nsa's key to your wot, and you wont see that patch right?
23:36 asciilifeform aha.
23:36 asciilifeform the thing i was trying to invoke there was situation with, e.g., ancient greeks, who cite works that are no longer around.
23:37 mod6 so we either have ~one~ universe, or there is >1
23:37 asciilifeform light cone is what you get when you find the intersection of one particular observer's notion of 'i can see WHOLE UNIVERSE!1111' with... reality.
23:41 mod6 so what would your implementation look like here? a patch to a current leaf of the trb patches that inflates say t/t.pl from 'false' on the end of the trb 'light-code' ?
23:42 mircea_popescu mod6 each genesis carves it's own "universe", of possible patches. asciilifeform prefers to call this universe "light cone". it could perhaps be argued that the applicable patches as shaped by your trusted keys is more properly your light cone, though might as well call it "trust cone" and be done with it
23:42 mod6 this would sit adjacent to the 'bitcoin' directory? (just trying to get a visual in my head here)
23:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'trust cone' is subset of your light cone.
23:42 asciilifeform the latter is the union of all of your ~possible~ trustcones.
23:43 mircea_popescu works for me.
23:43 asciilifeform mod6: i am somewhat perplexed re what you are asking
23:44 mod6 don't worry about that. paint me a picture on how you might go about the task - how and where does t.pl go? or v.pl ?
23:44 mod6 or whatever.txt
23:46 asciilifeform well, in my original v, ./v.py patches p patches/mod6_something_or_other_bleeding_edge_leaf.vpatch
23:46 asciilifeform and we're done.
23:46 mod6 ok.
23:46 mod6 that's all i was trying to say :]
23:46 asciilifeform note, elementarily it finds its way back to the genesis (or dies trying) and there is never any need to ~specify~ a genesis or the like.
23:46 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-19#1377638 << is it just me, or does this seem ridiculous
23:46 a111 Logged on 2016-01-19 21:55 ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: try to understand the perspective of inventor. for x,xxx years churchmen prattled on about sex and reproduciton 'cannot cut apart'. and now they can go get stuffed.
23:47 asciilifeform trinque: elaborate ?
23:47 trinque as if there are zero instincts towards spreading seed in the male side of the act of sex
23:47 * trinque has had a few beers, so let me be specific
23:47 trinque I have always been aware of this aspect of sex when taking part in it
23:48 mod6 so maybe, everyone's call, including yours for a 'v-genesis' vpatch had me thrown that it should be a 'genesis' and not a simple vpatch to what currently already exists out there.
23:48 mircea_popescu there's a difference between "can not be cut apart" and "sometimes you get a hankering for bareback ; so you make sure the bitch's on the pill"
23:48 asciilifeform ^ this is PRECISELY what i mean by cutting apart.
23:48 mircea_popescu mod6 it'd be a new genesis yeah.
23:48 asciilifeform to make the activity INDISTINGUISHABLE from exactly the wanted thing, minus the undesired sequelae.
23:49 asciilifeform granted if trinque ~specifically~ gets off on watching the offspring sprout, there is little that can be done for him by engineer.
23:49 mircea_popescu the problems only begin when trinque goes on a jwz rampage "i only wanted the offspring to sprout, not rob the store".
23:50 mircea_popescu then people get conned into pretending "education" is an engineering field.
23:50 mod6 in way that asciilifeform lays it out, in the sense that this vpatch would start from 'false' and end on 'SOME_HASH' and create a file(s)|directory(ies) that did not previously exist, then yes a 'genesis' but only on concept - not in name. as we shouldn't not confuse the two imho.
23:50 mod6 s/on/in/
23:50 asciilifeform mod6: per my v, that and only that is what a 'genesis' is.
23:51 asciilifeform any other usage is nyooz to me.
23:51 mircea_popescu mod6 : if you're building trb, you start from a trb genesis. if you're building V (via V), you start from a V genesis. and so on.
23:51 mod6 i think that it makes it confusing if we call it 'v-genesis'
23:51 mod6 instead of mod6_v.vpatch or something
23:51 asciilifeform thing is, operator doesn't specifically start from anything. he specifies a press head (if that. in one variant contemplated earlier by mircea_popescu, one does not even specify press head, but instead walk longest chain having sigs S1...Sn)
23:51 mircea_popescu the obvious usage is due to it being <project-name>-genesis. but yeah.
23:52 asciilifeform the press head results in walking backwards in time, to the genesis.
23:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform tru. but it ends up SOMEWHERE.
23:52 mircea_popescu right.
23:52 asciilifeform of which there can be >1 !
23:52 mircea_popescu mno!
23:52 asciilifeform as would be the case in a mircea_popescuated shiva trb.
23:52 mircea_popescu how teh hell would thatr be the case.
23:52 asciilifeform graph will have 2 nodes having no antecedents.
23:52 asciilifeform 1) trb-genesis
23:53 asciilifeform 2) shiva-part1
23:53 mircea_popescu no graph of mine is ever going into this state of sin.
23:53 asciilifeform how the fuck is this 'state of sin
23:53 asciilifeform '
23:53 mircea_popescu because ambiguous genesis.
23:53 asciilifeform it isn't ambiguous !
23:53 mircea_popescu ugh.
23:53 asciilifeform operator NEVER explicitly does ANYTHING with genesis !
23:53 asciilifeform ever !
23:53 asciilifeform srsly read the code, of ANYBODY's vtron
23:54 asciilifeform doesn't have to be mine
23:54 mircea_popescu would it be better if instead of genesis we called it terminator ?
23:54 trinque mircea_popescu │ the problems only begin when trinque goes on a jwz rampage "i only wanted the offspring to sprout, not rob the store". << I agree 100% that offspring are in any sane scenario mine to end
23:54 trinque this does not contradict the fact that the more the world looks like me, the happier I am
23:54 trinque it serves it
23:54 asciilifeform dun matter what we call it, there can and often will be >1.
23:54 mircea_popescu no such wonder.
23:54 asciilifeform elementarily, any patch that sprouts matter out of the aether without affecting anything presently standing.
23:55 mircea_popescu it still has to either a) chain off an existing element or b) not be part of the story.
23:55 mircea_popescu there is no c).
23:55 asciilifeform tinyscheme did not chain off any previously standing thing.
23:55 mircea_popescu then no good. and whatever patches reference it should burn.
23:55 asciilifeform it joins the party wholly formed.
23:55 mircea_popescu not allowed.
23:56 asciilifeform and i seriously fail to see why mircea_popescu is barfing
23:56 mircea_popescu it goes off existing matter or goes hang.
23:56 asciilifeform why ?
23:56 mircea_popescu same reason someone who wants to participate here starts by reading the log, not by "wholly formed" delusional nonsense.
23:57 asciilifeform does mircea_popescu recall why i did the tinyscheme genesis the way i did ?
23:57 asciilifeform it was quite ugly !
23:57 asciilifeform but ~deliberately~ went from ~pedigreed tarball~
23:57 mircea_popescu possibly because trying to subvert the whole thing by having "multiply loadable libraries" or whatever. in any case : you can trivially just make it depend on genesis and be done wit hthe whole story.
23:57 asciilifeform this obscures its pedigree !
23:57 deedbot [Qntra] Amazon Shipped Sulphuric Acid By Air Without Customary Precautions 9 Injured - http://qntra.net/2016/06/amazon-shipped-sulphuric-acid-by-air-without-customary-precautions-9-injured/
23:58 asciilifeform and makes whole thing into a 'trust me plox'
23:58 mircea_popescu there may not exist any sort of pedigree, even as a notion, other than from one of our genesis.
23:58 mircea_popescu and generally - the whole fucking world burns.
23:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it has to burn with proper petrol, farts are not enough.
23:58 asciilifeform using what pedigree there actually is - e.g., mircea_popescu's signed pgp tarball - is part of this.
23:58 mircea_popescu the notion that some sort of "pedigree" from outside v is worth two shits is the only fart here.
23:59 phf yeah, i found that point of tinyscheme somewhat confusing. i understand asciilifeform's intent of "this is how i found tarball", but it seems to contradict wot aspects of v
23:59 asciilifeform but it is not outside. the signed pedigreed tarball is a vtronic creation (in the respective cases, mine and mircea_popescu 's)
23:59 mircea_popescu the pedigree, if it exists, comes from "i asciilifeform read this and i goes off genesis". nowhere else.
23:59 asciilifeform testament that 'yes this is what i had on optic disk for last 10y'
23:59 asciilifeform aha
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