Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-07-15 | 2015-07-17 → ↓
00:00 decimation I've been reading that 'thinking forth' book, it's rather enjoyable
00:00 decimation I can see the elegance of the stack-based design
00:00 decimation where even function arguments are implict
00:00 decimation also the rpn makes me yearn for my hp calc
00:01 asciilifeform it is pretty neat, aha
00:02 decimation asciilifeform: I see the wisdom in writing bitcoin in ada strictly to attract the kinds of programmers we actually want
00:03 asciilifeform that kinda thing is more of a concern for wilderness folks (who have no wot)
00:04 mats http://www.rc4nomore.com
00:04 assbot RC4 NOMORE ... ( http://bit.ly/1K95Jg7 )
00:16 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2015#1202196
00:16 assbot Logged on 15-07-2015 06:55:10; ben_vulpes: we just have a bunch of functions called reset-password, set-user-whatever, update-user-whatever
00:17 gabriel_laddel ^ some people would like to have CLOS "models" http://web.archive.org/web/20140711171553/http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=2316 (see the section "An Interface/API Mechanism")
00:17 assbot Things I Want in Common Lisp « Symbo1ics Ideas ... ( http://bit.ly/1K974Ua )
00:17 gabriel_laddel Should be easy enough to add on top of CLOS if one really needs it.
00:19 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2015#1202192 << You wouldn't use CLOS for this afaik? Write a (generic?) function that performs the necessary data munging and deal with these unnamed structures using `cons', `append', `car' etc.
00:19 assbot Logged on 15-07-2015 06:54:13; trinque: I still don't see how I'd use CLOS like I use view composition in the db
00:20 gabriel_laddel !up artifexd
00:21 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2015#1202226
00:21 assbot Logged on 15-07-2015 07:03:43; trinque: and just fart graphics onto a canvas or webgl
00:21 gabriel_laddel ^ wtf why
00:21 gabriel_laddel CLIM!?
00:22 gabriel_laddel Sure it doesn't run "on the web" but one can socket one lisp proc into another and done?
00:23 asciilifeform achtung, panzers!
00:23 asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al!
00:24 asciilifeform gentlemen, please welcome zoolag.ddns.net - a therealbitcoin/stator node.
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00:24 asciilifeform (remember to always add by ip, stator does not support dns)
00:26 asciilifeform 96.241.120.166:8333
00:26 asciilifeform (for now.)
00:32 asciilifeform aaaand i think we might be ph0rk3d again just now.
00:32 mod6 <+asciilifeform> gentlemen, please welcome zoolag.ddns.net - a therealbitcoin/stator node. << cool!
00:33 mod6 are you stuck on block 365`521?
00:34 asciilifeform -20
00:34 asciilifeform (the flagship node, interestingly, isn't)
00:37 trinque gabriel_laddel: cannot get internet users to do anything harder than going to a URL
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00:37 trinque however I can see a use for CLIM on the backend
00:44 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203082 <<< and i recall some coke and blood pressure 200/150 talk or something lol
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00:44 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 02:19:08; asciilifeform: i distinctly recall mircea_popescu having fessed up to 'do'
00:45 asciilifeform aha
00:45 asciilifeform but iirc he quit, yes
00:48 trinque double latte is as far as I go into that territory these days
00:49 * mircea_popescu claps zoolag
00:49 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203280 << wtf why would you target "internet users".
00:49 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 04:37:08; trinque: gabriel_laddel: cannot get internet users to do anything harder than going to a URL
00:49 mircea_popescu http://38.media.tumblr.com/4ac85d1e67774ad97b370692cd87ca40/tumblr_n7fin8iqVA1t6sn51o1_400.gif << check out the sudden improvement in posture once the stick connects.
00:49 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAB7Iq )
00:49 trinque gabriel_laddel: who says I'm "targeting" still
00:50 trinque turns out you can make money in hubcaps and all sorts of other mundane things.
00:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lordosis !
00:53 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203282 << there are three relevent trilema articles. One describes MP's stance on drug legality (perhaps they should be illegal b/c else they'd be mandatory) the second doesn't have a comments section and shows off some MDMA on a tea tray (biz meeting iirc?) and the third mentions the purity of Ar cocaine in the footnotes.
00:53 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 04:44:59; cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203082 <<< and i recall some coke and blood pressure 200/150 talk or something lol
00:54 trinque mdma is a truly lovely drug.
00:54 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: i think there was a fourth where he appreciated hand-blown light bulbs. but under the influence of what, precisely - was not specified.
00:55 gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: hrm. I don't remember that one, but now that I think about it, there is a comment you made on a nonsense article ~"MP took a delivery of some potent smokables?".
00:56 gabriel_laddel oh, and the liquid-acid restaurant.
00:56 asciilifeform can't recall
00:56 gabriel_laddel "less liquid, less acid"
00:56 asciilifeform probably was a hypothetical
00:57 gabriel_laddel ;; google site: trilema.com "this is my attempt at trolling the electrical engineers"
00:57 gribble Shots from a voyage on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2014/shots-from-a-voyage/>; Proverb or expression for a situation with two choices, both leading ...: <http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/38243/proverb-or-expression-for-a-situation-with-two-choices-both-leading-to-a-differ>; Mainstream French Science Magazine Science et Vie on Cold ...: (1 more message)
00:57 lobbesbot New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=641 (Thomas Hofmann ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9AD29DC660DB7496B01D608486E6062A27E35F35C32CFD3E2F35FC1409374187#5C36ECF7F72E7DF2F75AB382EDB5C4F3F55890F8AAC2E9A7BF79BCCCF7E24B07>
00:57 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LzS295 )
00:57 lobbesbot New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=4294967297 (Thomas Hofmann ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9AD29DC660DB7496B01D608486E6062A27E35F35C32CFD3E2F35FC1409374187#E5D971BED516F3DAD920A90EF1FC17998F15DC52F179A95E45EA559544E77A4D>
00:57 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1JpoJ9K )
00:57 asciilifeform lulziez
00:58 gabriel_laddel trinque: ben_vulpes: http://www.amazon.com/Object-Oriented-Programming-COMMON-LISP-Programmers/dp/0201175894/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437016401&sr=8-1&keywords=a+programmers+guide+CLOS
00:58 assbot Object-Oriented Programming in COMMON LISP: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS: Sonya E. Keene: 0785342175899: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1RABHWB )
00:58 asciilifeform ^ mega-b00k
00:58 asciilifeform recommended.
00:58 trinque cool.
01:00 asciilifeform i suppose this is when i point out that symbolics co. employed a surprising (to modern reader) number of gurlz
01:00 asciilifeform prior to the 'tournamentization' of the programming trade in usa, it was a perfectly respectable profession
01:00 asciilifeform for all kinds of folks
01:01 gabriel_laddel danielpbarron: asciibooklist is missing "China's Examination Hell: The Civil Service Examinations of Imperial China". It is quite good.
01:01 asciilifeform but it had to be converted to 'let's you all 19 y.o. derps fight to the death over scraps'
01:01 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: missing a fuckton of things, but i was not the one who made the list
01:02 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel pretty sure was one about costa rica cocaine being ferried off by us coast guard by the cruiser
01:02 mircea_popescu because the locals don't have an army and happened upon a huge shipment
01:03 gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: I've not read that one.
01:03 decimation asciilifeform: better than 'the art of the metaobject protocol'?
01:03 gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: now that I think about it, you mentioned it in one of the few articles discussing your budding romance with Ar.
01:04 asciilifeform decimation: different subject
01:04 asciilifeform decimation: keene concerns conventional workaday clos
01:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform minigame is slowly turning into an all girls outfit
01:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i suspect that once you bugspray the 19yo. pork, a craftsmanship sort of profession would tend to.
01:05 scoopbot_revived A Megaton Load of Grassy Debris http://thewhet.net/2015/a-megaton-load-of-grassy-debris/
01:05 asciilifeform like medicine did in ussr.
01:06 mircea_popescu ahahahaha speaking of which.
01:06 mircea_popescu holy shit 51k
01:06 mircea_popescu wd hanbot
01:07 cazalla poor pogo must be getting desperate.. offering 30Gb for free now https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/202943
01:07 assbot Pogoplug 30GB Cloud Storage FREE - OzBargain ... ( http://bit.ly/1RACarU )
01:07 asciilifeform l0l
01:07 asciilifeform cazalla: our pogo4 is officially out of print btz
01:07 asciilifeform *btw
01:08 hanbot ty mircea_popescu
01:08 mircea_popescu i think they muyst have meanwhile figured out the "less head more butt meat, stupid!" design principle.
01:08 mircea_popescu 30gb, z80 cpu
01:08 asciilifeform wake me up when this.
01:10 mircea_popescu hanbot so this is 11 for the little bit turned into what,
01:10 mircea_popescu ;;calc 51000 * 60 * .8
01:10 gribble 2448000
01:10 mircea_popescu two and a half mil ?
01:11 hanbot 25 for my quality 225 bit, 202 swipe of axe. :D
01:11 asciilifeform anybody notice the blockless hour+ ~2h ago ?
01:11 mircea_popescu so basically 1`000`000% returns. gotta be a record
01:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, but by now this is a weekly thing
01:12 asciilifeform aha
01:12 asciilifeform still gets me tho
01:12 * asciilifeform bbl
01:13 trinque gabriel_laddel: bought for 9 bucks
01:13 trinque er 13 shipped
01:16 gabriel_laddel trinque: Congrats. It is a lovely book. Simple, to the point, and clearly the product of someone who understood *exactly* the limitations of their tooling.
01:17 gabriel_laddel ftr, I think the 3 canonical CL books are CLtL2, Keene and Art of the MOP
01:17 gabriel_laddel Would appreciate any input.
01:18 trinque cool, I'll let you know what I think of them.
01:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 177201 @ 0.0005435 = 96.3087 BTC [-] {5}
01:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 153199 @ 0.0005322 = 81.5325 BTC [-] {2}
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01:55 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> 96.241.120.166:8333 << ah hey!
01:55 ben_vulpes anuzza for my .config
01:58 ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203012 << i suppose, but...the waste is still shortsighted.
01:58 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 01:37:47; asciilifeform: gotta admit, usg switching to funding tx spam with stolen coin, rather than giving it at mega-discount to mircea_popescu et al, was a less-retarded-than-usual move
01:59 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> i don't seriously imagine that anybody gives a fuck between the 99th and 100th million. << zeroth to first though...
02:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97900 @ 0.00055949 = 54.7741 BTC [+] {2}
02:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13168 @ 0.00056322 = 7.4165 BTC [+]
02:18 ben_vulpes girl is bolting her dress together tonight
02:18 ben_vulpes rediscovers static friction
02:18 ben_vulpes rediscovered*
02:22 ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203227 << didn't you do these already?
02:22 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 03:22:53; mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/904ca035334c9b3ddba2959a6f7bbef7/tumblr_n7xwm8eVU11sgur0go1_400.gif foxylady says hi.
~ 17 minutes ~
02:40 scoopbot_revived Gwern Releases 1.5TB DNM Archive, Steps Down As /r/DarkNetMarkets Moderator http://qntra.net/2015/07/gwern-releases-1-5tb-dnm-archive-steps-down-as-rdarknetmarkets-moderator/
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02:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @ 0.00053088 = 21.7926 BTC [-] {2}
03:04 ben_vulpes any lispers know anything about "elephant"? https://common-lisp.net/project/elephant/
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03:04 assbot The Elephant Persistent Object Database ... ( http://bit.ly/1K8Ndll )
~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~
04:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69550 @ 0.00053423 = 37.1557 BTC [+]
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05:27 mircea_popescu ok ben_vulpes, jus' for you then. http://41.media.tumblr.com/cde5e3b233b4ed7f7d98efcb31f4e3ec/tumblr_mh4wtihA9v1s3kc85o1_1280.jpg
05:27 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mc97qT )
~ 32 minutes ~
06:00 punkman http://www.independent.co.uk/news/weird-news/sex-toys-have-been-mysteriously-appearing-on-power-lines-in-the-us-city-of-portland-oregon-10392252.html
06:00 assbot Sex toys have been mysteriously appearing on power lines in the US city of Portland, Oregon - Weird News - News - The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1gDfw1v )
06:00 mircea_popescu http://33.media.tumblr.com/96f8e81b00bf0618805f7d9fe3af59f6/tumblr_n6543uxBHt1tv5p19o1_400.gif
06:00 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gDfxlX )
06:00 mircea_popescu mystery solved.
06:01 punkman "A spokesman for public utility Portland General Electric said the dildos do not pose a fire hazard."
06:02 mircea_popescu aren't they hot ?
06:02 punkman not hot enough apparently
06:02 mircea_popescu that's refreshing.
06:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110877 @ 0.00053423 = 59.2338 BTC [+]
06:09 punkman http://www.hudaelislam.org/es/info/fo/alharam/alharam/Mecca-019.jpg
06:09 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DiFnAA )
06:09 mircea_popescu hey, how's greece two days after everyone stopped talking about it ?
06:10 punkman same as last week
06:11 mircea_popescu aha.
06:13 punkman "Euro Area said to agree in principle to €7bn #Greece bridge loan. Eurozone bridge loan to Greece would be announced tomorrow"
06:15 mircea_popescu aha.
06:16 mircea_popescu "(iii) COLOUR FEELING. The old-style contemptuous attitude towards 'natives' has been much weakened in England, and various pseudo-scientific theories emphasising the superiority of the white race have been abandoned.[Note, below] Among the intelligentsia, colour feeling only occurs in the transposed form, that is, as a belief in the innate superiority of the coloured races. This is now increasingly common among Englis
06:16 mircea_popescu h intellectuals, probably resulting more often from masochism and sexual frustration than from contact with the Oriental and Negro nationalist movements."
06:16 mircea_popescu word.
06:16 punkman I'm wondering how they'll limit outgoing transactions if/when banks reopen
06:17 mircea_popescu prolly a 30% tax.
06:17 punkman problem is greece imports too much stuff
06:18 mircea_popescu yes, this is aproblem, but not the way you think.
06:18 mircea_popescu if it imported half that much it'd be in much better a shape.
06:19 mircea_popescu anyway, 30% tax is what the usians are doing, and there aren't multiple thinkers going in the western world, so.
06:20 mircea_popescu "Nationalistic attachment to the coloured races is usually mixed up with the belief that their sex lives are superior, and there is a large underground mythology about the sexual prowess of Negroes."
06:20 mircea_popescu amusingly, this stupid shit' sapparently a century old.
06:20 punkman older than that
06:23 mircea_popescu ironically, the anthropologic record is unmistakingly opposite : black WOMEN have a lot of sex.
06:31 cazalla ya seen black women lately though? make hottentot look like a size 6
06:32 BingoBoingo !b 8
06:32 assbot Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0EH7CQR.txt )
06:34 mircea_popescu i have, actually. positively lithe
06:34 mircea_popescu not all black women come from samoa you know.
06:37 cazalla not sure i've even come across samoan/poly/maori women in porn before
06:39 davout mircea_popescu: ohai plz to x.eur
06:39 mircea_popescu hi there.
06:41 cazalla http://www.kelownanow.com/watercooler/news/news/Provincial/15/07/14/Vancouver_Based_Dating_Site_Plenty_of_Fish_Sold_for_575_Million
06:41 assbot Vancouver-Based Dating Site PlentyofFish Sold for $575 Million ... ( http://bit.ly/1gDhGhI )
06:42 mircea_popescu o.O
06:42 mircea_popescu no 500 trillion ??!?!
06:43 cazalla "There are an estimated 100,000,000 users on PlentyOfFish." sounds like plenty of fish to me.. anyway this guy use to be a regular on wickedfire.com and got that site started creating fake profiles back in the day
06:48 nubbins` with ASP.NET technology, no less.
06:48 mircea_popescu ayup
06:49 cazalla ah well good on him, never took the startup route with investors and shit
06:51 mircea_popescu 5.75 an user ?
06:51 nubbins` turns out if you wait long enough they'll suck your cock instead of the other way around
06:51 mircea_popescu still seems insane to me.
06:51 mircea_popescu nubbins` this is possibly the oldest rule in the book.
06:51 nubbins` nod
06:51 nubbins` does the site even make money these days?
06:52 nubbins` used to be free / ad-supported
06:53 nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1123066.0
06:53 assbot ❎►฿ Smoothie's Hawaiian Property (gauging interest for now) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQwwap )
06:53 nubbins` hawaii, to me, seems to be a nice place to visit but a really shitty run-down place to live
06:53 mircea_popescu i don't see that it'd make enough to pay for the servers.
06:53 nubbins` sort of like how i imagine florida, complete w/ meth heads
06:54 mircea_popescu all islands suck to live on
06:54 mircea_popescu if you're larger than a rat, at any rate.
06:54 nubbins` heh, tell me about it.
06:54 nubbins` ;;google the island of newfoundland
06:54 gribble Newfoundland (island) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_(island)>; Newfoundland and Labrador - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_and_Labrador>; Welcome to Newfoundland :: Where is Newfoundland?: <http://newfoundland.hilwin.nl/PHP/en/location.php>
06:54 mircea_popescu lol
06:54 mircea_popescu isn't onedog of twodogs larger than europe ?
06:55 nubbins` labrador ("the big land" is around 300km^2
06:55 nubbins` newfoundland is 400ish
06:56 mircea_popescu oh that tiny ?
06:56 nubbins` .ro, around 240
06:56 mircea_popescu you mean thousand km^2 ?
06:56 nubbins` hahah. yes. :/
06:56 mircea_popescu aok
06:57 nubbins` nf is notable for being one of very few places in the world which has its own name in the irish language
06:58 nubbins` "talamh an éisc"
07:00 nubbins` the irish, in turn, blessed nf english with such words as "scrob", "streel", and "sleveen"
07:00 nubbins` as well as several bizarre grammatical structures
07:01 nubbins` e.g. "Oh, he's already after leaving"
07:03 nubbins` jesus. who cares?
07:03 nubbins` hey, steve
07:03 HeySteve hello there
07:03 HeySteve re: plenty of fish - http://postimg.org/image/upib72xjl/
07:03 assbot View image: 11755092 1152768334738729 4554841114117486960 n ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQymYQ )
07:03 HeySteve "there's a bunch of fish in the sea... but how do you catch one if your line's so short!"
07:05 mircea_popescu there's also drinks. http://41.media.tumblr.com/ca7613e9663326cd0ba60becf72f1cb9/tumblr_mxji2civUi1rz73x8o1_1280.jpg
07:05 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQyQhm )
07:08 HeySteve tasty
07:12 nubbins` http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/07/16/0020246/fbi-helps-shut-down-piracy-sites-in-romania
07:12 assbot FBI Helps Shut Down Piracy Sites In Romania - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQAdN7 )
07:13 nubbins` somewhat more interesting: http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/medical-robots/rewalk-robotics-new-exoskeleton-lets-paraplegic-stroll-the-streets-of-nyc
07:13 assbot ReWalk Robotics's New Exoskeleton Lets Paraplegic Stroll the Streets of NYC - IEEE Spectrum ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQAn7i )
07:14 nubbins` "He got a few curious looks as he strode forward in his sleek black gear, but the fast-walking New Yorkers didn’t slow down or clear space for him."
07:15 nubbins` imagine, midtown manhattan and people didn't clear space for a guy wearing something weird
07:18 nubbins` "The ReWalk 6.0 has a steep list price: US $77,000. Woo said there’s no chance his insurance provider will reimburse him: “They won’t even pay for my wheelchair,” he said."
07:18 nubbins` o.O
07:18 nubbins` america: don't get sick
07:22 scoopbot_revived X.EUR July 16th statement http://fr.anco.is/2015/x-eur-july-16th-statement/
07:23 HeySteve "stair mode hasn’t been approved by U.S. regulators yet, so ReWalks bought here currently have that function blocked."
07:24 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 374 @ 0.00395346 = 1.4786 BTC [-] {5}
07:24 nubbins` yeah heh.
07:24 nubbins` canadian regulators apparently DGAF and allow stair mode
07:29 nubbins` "Home cooking is still the best way to control the calories, fat, sugar and other nutrients that families consume, a new U.S. study suggests."
07:29 nubbins` can you purchase forks specifically made for poking eyes out?
07:38 mod6 hanbot: 51k CDG!! wd :]
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07:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66850 @ 0.00053052 = 35.4653 BTC [-] {2}
~ 15 minutes ~
07:55 fluffypony this is my favourite slide from the Bitcoin Africa conference
07:55 fluffypony https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku9o88m8gS4#t=4m30s
07:55 assbot Gareth Grobler - New entrants and disruptors - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1K94YAZ )
07:56 fluffypony I tore into that moron on Twitter for that, and that's what led to me being banned from attending in future
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~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
09:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27479 @ 0.00053009 = 14.5663 BTC [-] {2}
09:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75227 @ 0.00052903 = 39.7973 BTC [-] {2}
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09:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24450 @ 0.00053459 = 13.0707 BTC [+]
09:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.0005289 = 20.4155 BTC [-]
09:46 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203378 << aha. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=09-06-2015#1157467 >> it is spiffy, but difficult to build at first
09:46 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 07:04:39; ben_vulpes: any lispers know anything about "elephant"? https://common-lisp.net/project/elephant/
09:46 assbot Logged on 09-06-2015 02:03:19; asciilifeform: trinque: or the open src 'elephant'
09:47 asciilifeform it almost succeeds at shooting the very concept of db in the head ('i will do whatever i want to this data structure, and it will still be there if machine resets, without my having mutilated it in any way to make this possible')
09:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67650 @ 0.00052841 = 35.7469 BTC [-] {2}
09:58 asciilifeform ;;isup qntra.net
09:58 gribble qntra.net is down
10:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26529 @ 0.00053459 = 14.1821 BTC [+]
10:09 thestringpuller asciilifeform beat me to it
10:21 asciilifeform also, learned that the 'EXCEPTION: St12out_of_range CInv::GetCommand() type=3 unknown in ProcessMessages()' often found in therealbitcoin log comes from phoundation nodes sending 'bloom filter' command, a turd only they support
↖
10:22 asciilifeform mod6, ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al: we might wanna catch that exception instead of letting it propagate to the 'errors:' buffer
10:22 ben_vulpes indeed
10:22 ben_vulpes achtung, etc
10:23 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i was nattering to trinque that i wanted a pure lisp database just last night. "here are some CLOS thingers: return me the ones of interest"
10:23 asciilifeform ^ elephant
10:23 asciilifeform (the only public example i know of)
10:24 asciilifeform symbolics corp. had some very interesting commercial lisp db, e.g., 'statice'
10:24 asciilifeform but it is now of archaeological interest only
10:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56300 @ 0.00052784 = 29.7174 BTC [-] {2}
10:27 asciilifeform https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_symbolics?&sort=-downloads&page=2 << incidentally
10:27 assbot The BITSAVERS.ORG Documents Library: Symbolics : Free Texts : Download & Streaming : Internet Archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1McFciw )
10:31 ben_vulpes those manual covers are gorgeous
10:32 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: apparently no one on the net has the statice book up. so here it is, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/statice.pdf
10:32 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1McFHZO )
10:32 asciilifeform enough to get a good sense of the flavour.
10:33 asciilifeform re: 'elephant', note that the backend is not pure lisp
10:33 asciilifeform has the consequence of making it a first-class bitch to set up on a given box
10:33 asciilifeform (the ffi crud has to be just-so, etc)
10:38 ben_vulpes neat, ty asciilifeform
10:38 ben_vulpes o rly? what on earth does it need ffi for
10:39 asciilifeform the backend
10:39 asciilifeform bdb
10:39 ben_vulpes aha
10:39 ben_vulpes ever try it with pg?
10:39 asciilifeform https://common-lisp.net/project/elephant << see docs.
10:39 assbot The Elephant Persistent Object Database ... ( http://bit.ly/1e2u88z )
10:39 ben_vulpes (i can see why a bdb impl would need it)
10:40 asciilifeform it claims to work with pg, but i was never able to achieve this
10:40 asciilifeform worth a shot, if you have a serious use for this
10:40 ben_vulpes making persistent cl objstores sounds seriously useful
10:41 ben_vulpes especially if i can get multi-box access to the data store
10:42 ben_vulpes no shit alex mizrahi's maintains elephant?
10:42 ben_vulpes s/'s//
10:42 asciilifeform whossat
10:42 ben_vulpes colored coins iirc
10:43 asciilifeform never heard of
10:44 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: looks like they might be two separate people
10:45 ben_vulpes well there's that then
10:46 asciilifeform .. or not
10:47 asciilifeform found at least two of'em
10:47 asciilifeform but one is a journo-spammer and doesn't appear to have any part in software
10:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31782 @ 0.00053619 = 17.0412 BTC [+] {2}
10:48 * asciilifeform bbl
~ 36 minutes ~
11:25 mats http://blog.trailofbits.com/2015/07/15/how-we-fared-in-the-cyber-grand-challenge
↖
11:25 assbot How We Fared in the Cyber Grand Challenge – Trail of Bits Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1SpuV1a )
11:26 mats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2egL4y_VpYg
11:26 assbot Bjarne Stroustrup - What – if anything – have we learned from C++? - PLE'15 Keynote/Curry On - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Spv1G1 )
11:26 thestringpuller ^^^ trigger warning
~ 20 minutes ~
11:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101400 @ 0.00052685 = 53.4226 BTC [-] {2}
11:50 mats ?
11:54 mats ya'll need to cool it with the hate bandwagons, curiousity about how things work is a superior and more palatable approach
↖
11:56 mats nobody gains anything from a circlejerk about how machines suck
~ 1 hours 31 minutes ~
13:27 danielpbarron my pogo is currently -connect'd to ascii's thing, now is getting blocks in a reasonable timeframe
13:28 danielpbarron i don't think it can fully sync anymore as-is without direct connect to a "blessed" node
13:28 danielpbarron what with this nonStandard tx spam probably being the new norm
13:30 thestringpuller danielpbarron: it still wedges?
13:30 thestringpuller (with "normal" nodes)?
13:30 danielpbarron no, but it can't keep up either
13:30 danielpbarron gets bogged down trying to recieve and relay so many spam transactions
13:31 thestringpuller That was happening on my full node too so I had to shut it down.
13:31 danielpbarron the blocks themselves take no more than a few minutes to verify, but it isn't always verifying blocks
13:32 danielpbarron i think much of the issue is solved with BingoBoingo's patch that lets 0.5.3 bitcoin.conf have a line defining the minimum tx fee for relaying
13:32 thestringpuller Does it max on it's bandwidth or is it slow in "verifying" new tx's?
13:32 danielpbarron i don't know enough to answer that, but i doubt it's bandwidth
13:33 danielpbarron although come to think of it, my home internet did seem kinda sluggish as of late
13:33 thestringpuller Also I thought if your mempool doesn't match another node's that node will isolate you.
13:33 danielpbarron could be coincidence, like summer people on vacation flooding my shared cable lines
13:33 danielpbarron hah like i care what non foundation nodes do
13:33 danielpbarron all i care is, do other 0.5.3.1 nodes like me? ok good.
13:34 thestringpuller 0.5.3.1 nodes are sleeper cells atm too, (vis-a-vis ascii's node being recognized by bitnodes.io)
13:36 thestringpuller I found that during the "spam attack" my node was using almost 90% of it's upstream bandwidth relaying transactions.
13:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41300 @ 0.00054542 = 22.5258 BTC [+] {2}
~ 35 minutes ~
14:13 BingoBoingo https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NSA-KDBUS-Credentials
14:13 assbot The NSA Is Looking At Systemd's KDBUS - Phoronix ... ( http://bit.ly/1OhdYFA )
14:26 trinque "Why don't you let people define their own abstractions, and put the abstraction mechanism into the language?"
14:26 trinque from Stroustrup talk
14:26 * trinque closes it
14:34 ben_vulpes kill the mempool, kill the relay
14:47 Naphex Will be launching a non x-rated Xotika.TV spin-off called otika.tv. For whatever people wanna stream that doesn't need lots of disclaimers ;]
14:54 ben_vulpes ;;ticker
14:54 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 275.85, Best ask: 275.86, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 275.85, 24 hour volume: 53972.57780706, 24 hour low: 275.21, 24 hour high: 295.0, 24 hour vwap: None
~ 26 minutes ~
15:20 jurov danielpbarron: mircea_popescu: wd, pogos arrived complete with "no customs duty" sticker
15:21 danielpbarron yay
15:21 jurov daniel dutifully declared "Business" as NO SUCH LABS, i grinned all the way back
15:22 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
15:22 ascii_field congrats jurov, danielpbarron
15:22 kakobrekla did you ship them disassembled?
15:23 danielpbarron i did, yes
15:23 * trinque just brought "monolith" up on gentoo
15:24 trinque so much room for blockchainz
15:26 BingoBoingo <ben_vulpes> kill the mempool, kill the relay << On some level relay is still necessary.
~ 29 minutes ~
15:56 * shinohai 's pogo is very happy so far.
16:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14090 @ 0.0005475 = 7.7143 BTC [+]
16:05 mircea_popescu jurov cool, have fun
16:05 trinque http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/us/chattanooga-tennessee-shooting.html << another one went pop
16:05 assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSkEoj )
16:10 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203485 << nuts huh
16:10 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 11:38:13; mod6: hanbot: 51k CDG!! wd :]
16:11 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203490 << can it be text summary or image ? youtube decided to cease working on non-retarded systems meanwhile.
16:11 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 11:56:10; fluffypony: I tore into that moron on Twitter for that, and that's what led to me being banned from attending in future
16:11 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203504 << right.
16:11 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 14:21:09; asciilifeform: also, learned that the 'EXCEPTION: St12out_of_range CInv::GetCommand() type=3 unknown in ProcessMessages()' often found in therealbitcoin log comes from phoundation nodes sending 'bloom filter' command, a turd only they support
16:11 mircea_popescu should insta-ban a node sending that, just waste of bw.
16:12 mats http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/intel-confirms-tick-tock-shattering-kaby-lake-processor-as-moores-law-falters/
16:12 assbot Intel confirms tick-tock-shattering Kaby Lake processor as Moore’s Law falters | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1gE8r0K )
16:13 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
16:14 mircea_popescu aww!
16:15 diametric hmm my bouncer is terrible
16:15 mircea_popescu who was arguing the point with me, decimation ?
16:15 thestringpuller but i'll email you as soon as I get to my home machine. probably will boot it up tonight instead of reading comics.
16:15 diametric i explicitly use it to save pms, and it fails at it.
16:15 thestringpuller Booooo. irssi stop spamming channel
16:15 mircea_popescu what's that schmuck's handle
16:16 mircea_popescu ;;seen gavinanderssen
16:16 gribble I have not seen gavinanderssen.
16:16 mircea_popescu ;;google gavin the bitcoin shithead
16:16 gribble The Bitcoin Dumping Charade | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski: <http://www.contravex.com/2014/08/14/the-bitcoin-dumping-charade/>; "The Bitcoin protocol doesn't exist." : Bitcoin - Reddit: <http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/31jh8m/the_bitcoin_protocol_doesnt_exist/>; ELI5: If Bitcoin is decentralized, why are there centralized people in ...: (1 more message)
16:16 mircea_popescu sucks trying to talk to the anon herd already.
16:16 mod6 <+jurov> daniel dutifully declared "Business" as NO SUCH LABS, i grinned all the way back << :>
16:17 thestringpuller ;;seen gavinandressen
16:17 gribble I have not seen gavinandressen.
16:17 mircea_popescu ;;seen GavinAndresen
16:17 gribble GavinAndresen was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 25 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 58 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> I’ve gotta go. Pierre_Rochard, nice chatting with you.
16:17 mircea_popescu aha
16:17 ascii_field mircea_popescu: as of this morning, 'zoolag' was fully synced and happily serving 40 or so connections
16:17 mircea_popescu ;;later tell gavinandresen how's the moore law coming along, shithead ?
16:17 gribble The operation succeeded.
16:17 mod6 ascii_field: cool!
16:18 mircea_popescu ascii_field good. i still can't get my nodes to eat the block in question.
16:19 ascii_field mircea_popescu: i suppose when you quit using that thing and post the src, i will be able to tell you why !
16:19 mod6 << nuts huh << off of a Tiny, with 1 BON!! that's one for the books
16:19 mircea_popescu myeah. you got better stuff to do.
16:21 ascii_field it'd take all of half an hour. but anyway.
16:24 nubbins` https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3di6zc/nick_szabos_hidden_work/ct5fk9s
16:24 assbot mike_hearn comments on Nick Szabo's hidden work ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSoc9Z )
16:24 mircea_popescu the big problem intel faces is that in a world where you can get a billion dollars for free just for being where the pellet landed in iraq,
16:25 mircea_popescu it makes very little sense to actually bother even trying to get the fine shit alligned
16:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9003 @ 0.00054649 = 4.92 BTC [-]
16:26 nubbins` "And the defect rate is particularly notable; at inception the software was unusually free of defect. Unlike many other initial Bitcoin packages which in their first releases were full of crashes and deadlocks Bitcoin was nearly free of them. Most of the serious bugs fixed subsequently were added by other people."
16:26 mircea_popescu myeah.
16:26 nubbins` ^ guy disagreeing with hearn's opinion that satoshi's code was diarrhoea splatter
16:26 mircea_popescu "other people"
16:26 nubbins` heheheheh.
16:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26680 @ 0.00054649 = 14.5804 BTC [-]
16:26 mircea_popescu they were added by you (ie, hearn), and by gavin and so on.
16:26 nubbins` l'enfer
16:27 mircea_popescu anyway. the claim is not that the original code is bad as in, bad penmanship. the claim is that the original code is no good as in, not sane design. this is consistent with a prototype and not particularly reflective on the capacity of the author.
16:27 nubbins` yup
16:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27550 @ 0.0005475 = 15.0836 BTC [+]
16:29 mircea_popescu the chicken scriblings coming after were originally excused under the "they're kids and they mean well" header.
16:29 mircea_popescu meanwhile, it became apparent that they're not kids but actually mentally retarded, and they certainly do not mean well.
16:30 BingoBoingo <assbot> Logged on 16-07-2015 14:21:09; asciilifeform: also, learned that the 'EXCEPTION: St12out_of_range CInv::GetCommand() type=3 unknown in ProcessMessages()' often found in therealbitcoin log comes from phoundation nodes sending 'bloom filter' command, a turd only they support << From my limited understanding it isn't Phoundation nodes, but SPV shit running Hearnia's BitcoinJ doing that
16:30 BingoBoingo Phoundation nodes just respond
16:31 ascii_field BingoBoingo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0037.mediawiki << apparently
16:31 assbot bips/bip-0037.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSpl1h )
16:31 nubbins` http://imgur.com/a/xRHwZ
16:31 assbot Box I found in my apartment - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSptOs )
16:32 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203555 << these are separate issues. whether love or hate and whether curiosity or uncuriosity are perfectly orthogonal concerns. you can be lovingly uncurious, you can be hatefully curious, and the other two combos as well.
16:32 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 15:54:23; mats: ya'll need to cool it with the hate bandwagons, curiousity about how things work is a superior and more palatable approach
16:32 mircea_popescu moreover, and more importantly, other than the "palatable" part, which is entirely your own aesthetic judgement, i'd like some substantiation as to the "nobody gains" part. how do you know this ?
16:33 ascii_field nubbins`: yours? they look like cheapo surplus 9mm luger
16:33 mircea_popescu as best i can discern atm, a curiosity steeped in burning hate is by far the best approach when dealing with maggot swamps.
16:33 mircea_popescu such as you know, things written by english native speakers.
16:37 ascii_field this is the kind of field i refer to as 'of entomological interest'
16:38 mircea_popescu i imagined so.
16:38 ascii_field 'who said lawyer cannot be an anarchist? must a doctor love disease?' (eben moglen, rms's lawyer)
16:39 nubbins` ascii_field not mine
16:39 nubbins` i don't have w/e paperwork is required to purchase guns or ammo
16:39 mircea_popescu well, the role of b-a in most people's lives at this point is i suppose this critical if at times forcible examination of mental habits and automatisms they hold dear unexamidely.
16:39 mircea_popescu ironically, half the time this happens in response to someone asking b-a to stop being so radically self-centered.
16:41 mircea_popescu anyway, the root is, i suppose, the unwarranted expectation that choice predates existence, and that it necessarily is (not even by god's grace or anything, but immediately) accessible to "thinking people" which the subject will always see himself as. consequently, given that choice predates existence, and given that it is necessarily accessible, it then follows that one may only be informed by things one approves of.
16:42 mircea_popescu so you know, if you decide you hate it then you couldn't possibly (in this worldview) ever learn anything from it, or even examine it critically.
16:42 mircea_popescu so the doctor example is particularly cogent. the doctor, and more generally the scholar (called scientist these days) is the person whose curiosity is inflamed by what makes others puke.
16:43 mircea_popescu a rare enough trait, which is why periods of abundance do not increase the population.
16:43 mircea_popescu !up ascii_field
16:44 ascii_field think of the fella who first loaded own spoodge onto a microscope slide.
16:44 ascii_field (fairly arbitrary example)
16:44 mircea_popescu things like how trilema shapes the future irrespective of how many derps deem themselves to be "offended" by it and attempt in their meagre way to resist are obviously not well explained by that theory.
16:51 fluffypony mircea_popescu: he had a slide on how Bitcoin solves the Byzantine general's problem
16:52 mircea_popescu oh ok...
16:57 mats it is certainly an aesthetic concern
16:57 mats and here is why: i don't think its possible to be a good reverse engineer when you approach odd design choices with contempt rather than curiousity.
16:57 mircea_popescu why ?
16:58 mircea_popescu do you suppose torquemada was the worst anatomist of his age, because unlike the other jews, he was contempt-powered ?
16:58 mats because every technical person i have ever met with this attitude has turned out to know a lot less than they believe they did
16:58 trinque mats: sure you can; you never smelled something even though you already knew it was rotten?
16:58 trinque there's humor in that
16:58 mircea_popescu mats so anecdotally ?
16:59 mats yes.
16:59 mircea_popescu i dunno, the reverse case can also be made. no mother i ever met was actually aware how shitty her offspring was.
16:59 mircea_popescu and i do mean this no. prolly met more mothers than you met reverse engineers, too.
17:02 mircea_popescu anyway. historically there's no impact. for many years teachers soundly and loudly despised their pupils. this resulted in a large mass of insecure, neurotic schmucks, freud fodder. for some years now teachers loudly and perhaps soundly love their pupils. outside of a few cases of coabitation which are apparently a criminal offense for some contorted reason (what sense does it make, you asked them to love the kids didn
17:02 mircea_popescu 't ya ?!), the result is a lot of obnoxious, self-centered, lazy twerps.
17:02 mircea_popescu the proportion of actual humans coming out, about the same throughout.
17:02 mircea_popescu it just doesn't matter, imo.
17:06 nubbins` <+mats> because every technical person i have ever met with this attitude has turned out to know a lot less than they believe they did <<< those who think they know X have those who know X outnumbered hundreds of millions to one
17:07 mats if you hate something, thats fine, but i expect specific and reasoned judgment; its well and good to despise node.js, or javascript, or c++, but i catch a funny smell in here when folks more or less coopt the opinions of their perceived betters
↖
17:08 mircea_popescu this is universally a bad habit anyway. heck, not doing THAT is even in the rules, such as they are.
17:08 mats it stinks of intellectual laziness
17:09 mircea_popescu the only problem is that you can't have people mechanically NOT follow their betters just to maintain the shattered scabbard of an "intellectual independence" they do not actually possess.
17:09 nubbins` heh.
17:09 mircea_popescu in short, unpalatable as this is, im afraid it'd be a field where no formal examination is possible.
17:10 ascii_field who is surprised by this ?
17:11 trinque ftr I listened to the talk; the way the man thinks is a perfect representative of a mind which makes incremental changes based on "real world pragmatism" without ever reviewing the whole history of the field and designing from that perspective.
17:11 trinque I deeply and passionately resent everyone in the field which put systems such as these in my lap and told me they were "industry standards" and so on
17:11 trinque and am glad I didn't waste more of my career.
17:12 mircea_popescu yet most of everything that works was built by people doing the incremental bs.
17:12 mircea_popescu the other sort broadly make titanics.
17:12 * ascii_field has been pouring the gasoline of this heresy around for years, is pleased that folks are finally lighting the match
↖
17:13 mircea_popescu i think actually curtis yarvin is a very fine example of what's the problem with derps "reviewing the whole history"
17:13 ascii_field mircea_popescu: titanic is the quintessential 'industry standard' - recall the piece re: the officers ?
17:13 trinque mircea_popescu: I see that point too
17:13 trinque !up ascii_field
17:13 ascii_field mircea_popescu: the problem lies with 'derps' not with the 'rewrite'
17:13 mircea_popescu ascii_field beheading the popist priests will not banish gluttony from your lands, kind sire.
17:14 ascii_field does not follow that the heads ought to stay on; gluttony no - simony - yes
17:14 mircea_popescu neither.
17:14 mircea_popescu but yes, it does not follow that the heads ought to stay on.
17:16 ascii_field !s lightoller
17:16 assbot 5 results for 'lightoller' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lightoller
17:16 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-11-2014#921779 << old thread
17:16 assbot Logged on 14-11-2014 19:27:19; asciilifeform: re more important than experimental results. Lightoller, in effect, put traditions and customs ahead of the lives of passengers. To him, “the experience of years” and “what we have always done” outweighed all practical suggestions as to what we might do instead, to avoid killing thousands of people.'
17:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21789 @ 0.00054649 = 11.9075 BTC [-]
17:23 punkman ascii_field, what did Lightoller do?
17:25 mircea_popescu well he didnb't MAKE the titanic, in any case.
17:26 mircea_popescu he just got stuck trying to make it work afterwards, and got his ears nailed to the headboard when he couldn't.
17:30 ascii_field he was the one fella who got nailed 'for buying ibm'
17:30 mircea_popescu at the one time when buying ibm was actually the rigfht move.
17:30 mircea_popescu nothing matches the perversity of justice.
17:31 ascii_field why the right move?
17:31 ascii_field i dun see it
17:35 punkman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdRycY2Xtg4
17:35 assbot Angela Merkel tells sobbing asylum seeker why she cannot stay in Germany - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1K9ObxF )
17:39 mircea_popescu because a ship sinking is stil lthe worst time to do research
↖
17:40 mircea_popescu "During the following 24 hour period, our CRS was able to identify vulnerabilities in 65 of those programs and rewrite 94 of them to eliminate bugs built in their code. This proves, without a doubt, that it is not only possible but achievable to automate the actions of a talented software auditor."
17:40 mircea_popescu doesn't this prove without a doubt that half the bugs were left behind ?
17:44 BingoBoingo !up ascii_field
~ 19 minutes ~
18:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54590 @ 0.00055152 = 30.1075 BTC [+] {2}
18:11 mircea_popescu ah what the hell, i'll bite.
18:11 mats well, yeah. its a hard problem
18:11 mats black box and all
18:12 ascii_field wai wut
18:12 * ascii_field must have missed
18:12 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203713 << allow me to please you by pointing out that in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-07-2015#1201884 and similar, you actually misrepresent the strategic situation by failing to look at the whole history :D
18:12 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 21:12:54; *: ascii_field has been pouring the gasoline of this heresy around for years, is pleased that folks are finally lighting the match
18:12 assbot Logged on 15-07-2015 02:55:29; asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: i don't recall mircea_popescu ever devoting a whole article to specifically that one. his position, iirc, is 'satoshi lost the keys'
18:12 mats http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203548
18:12 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 15:25:02; mats: http://blog.trailofbits.com/2015/07/15/how-we-fared-in-the-cyber-grand-challenge
18:12 mircea_popescu specifically what i mean is this :
18:13 mircea_popescu the satoshi hoard poses very little threat to bitcoin as is. the real threat is, an ~ACTUAL~ bitcoin client emerging, that's thje actual son of the original, not a bastardized clump of nonsense.
18:13 mircea_popescu signed by the right key.
18:13 mircea_popescu normally the switchover from prototype to actual product might have needed a little prodding, so reserve funds make sense, yes.
18:13 ascii_field mircea_popescu: i wouldn't presume to be the only one pushing the heresy, no
18:14 mircea_popescu but in actual fact the usg idiots have done such a good job at burying themselves, that it likely wouldn't even be needed, today.
18:14 mircea_popescu "orthodoxy" is such a laughingstock people'd just switch with a sigh of relief.
18:14 mircea_popescu ya see ?
18:14 mircea_popescu you never can know whether you have or have not considered "the history", for the plain reason that history is something you only know once it no longer matters
18:15 mircea_popescu (formally, once it no longer can be used to make predictions)
18:15 mircea_popescu !up ascii_field
18:15 * ascii_field a little confused. possibly from too much x86 asm today
18:16 ascii_field what is it that people would switch to ?
18:16 mircea_popescu satoshi's own bitcoin 1.0
18:17 ascii_field built with vs, aha
18:17 ascii_field hurry, switch.
18:17 mircea_popescu mno.
18:17 mircea_popescu about the messiah, no factual claims may be made :)
18:18 ascii_field the more i work with the eldritch horror, the less respect i have for this 'messiah'
18:18 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2015#1203738 << uh, try reading up on the titanic crash?
18:18 assbot Logged on 16-07-2015 21:39:10; mircea_popescu: because a ship sinking is stil lthe worst time to do research
18:18 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel what specifically ?
18:18 mircea_popescu ascii_field nevertheless, the strategic considerations involved are what they are.
18:19 mircea_popescu the very notable reserve power behind it all is not the hoard.
18:19 ascii_field gabriel_laddel: aha, lightoller did his thing ~long before~ the ship began to sink
18:19 ascii_field before it hit the ice.
18:19 gabriel_laddel ascii_field: yep.
18:19 mircea_popescu wasn't he the guy organising the raft boats ?
18:20 gabriel_laddel there was one man who wanted to prosecute the IBM fella, and I can't remember his name...
18:20 ascii_field http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusion.pdf << original article
18:20 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gEijrg )
18:20 gabriel_laddel exact article I was thinking of
18:21 ascii_field mircea_popescu: what is the 'reserve power' here ?
18:21 gabriel_laddel mats: don't be shy, name names! Who in here is faking their hatred?
18:21 mircea_popescu "here is the new bitcoin"
18:21 ascii_field if it is the intellectual authority behind satoshi's key, i must confess i have my doubts
18:21 mircea_popescu combined with the hoard you may keep your doubtrs
18:22 mircea_popescu but as things stand today, after two years of idiocy from the stooge camp, your doubts would be a weak minority even without it.
18:24 ascii_field so mircea_popescu would run a festering heap of shit like bitcoin 0.1, so long as it were signed with satoshi ?
18:26 gabriel_laddel http://www.shagbase.com/one-piece-off-ass/ << lovely captions
18:26 assbot Shagbase - One Piece of Ass ... ( http://bit.ly/1gEiN0p )
18:26 mircea_popescu no.
18:26 ascii_field i'll confess that my first thought, if anything were ever to appear signed with satoshi's key, that he has finally been found, killed, and usgificated.
18:26 mircea_popescu depends what it says.
18:26 mircea_popescu there is no structural way to scoure a message outside of it.
18:27 ascii_field well yes.
18:27 mircea_popescu moreover : the solution to the challenge is plainly there.
18:27 mircea_popescu ~that~ is what the hoard is for.
↖
18:27 ascii_field but this brings us back to the question of whether mr s has ~intellectual authority~
18:27 ascii_field vs merely a club.
18:28 mircea_popescu anyway. ima be off ot eat.
18:28 mircea_popescu we can continue later!
~ 40 minutes ~
19:08 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2601&pr=0
19:08 assbot JL: Your Stolen Man Song ... ( http://bit.ly/1HxTq9g )
19:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64128 @ 0.00054481 = 34.9376 BTC [-] {2}
~ 20 minutes ~
19:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21972 @ 0.00053338 = 11.7194 BTC [-]
19:44 BingoBoingo ;;later tell pete_dushenski Easy mode is the only real way to play most new "AAA" games while determining which of one's failures are due to the game's inherent challenge vs. The game being an unfinished piece of shit
19:44 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 26 minutes ~
20:11 danielpbarron !up popmechanic
20:12 BingoBoingo Hello popmechanic
20:12 popmechanic Greetings:)
20:14 BingoBoingo Hello
20:14 BingoBoingo Anything in particular bring you here today?
20:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68600 @ 0.00052484 = 36.004 BTC [-]
20:17 BingoBoingo Avalon Jeff falls to senility https://archive.is/L3paQ
20:17 assbot SwagPokerz comments on BIP 102: Increase block size limit to 2MB on Nov 11, 2015. by jgarzik · Pull Request #6451 · bitcoin/bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oih8ZJ )
20:23 popmechanic Michael Goldstein referenced this channel on Twitter today. I hadn’t heard of it and am interested in Bitcoin so I thought I’d lurk for, oh, 6 months or so;)
20:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68194 @ 0.00054844 = 37.4003 BTC [+] {2}
20:26 BingoBoingo popmechanic: Sounds like a solid plan. Probably would be prudent to register. The you can self voice to ask questions. WHen asking questions you will probably get links which will lead you to the golden six months of logs to read.
20:26 Adlai !h
20:26 assbot http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
20:33 popmechanic !register 48802F831BAFC232A26C974A0DA5926BC6E7BDCF
20:33 assbot Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 48802F831BAFC232A26C974A0DA5926BC6E7BDCF. This may take a few moments.
20:33 assbot Key C6E7BDCF / "keybase.io/marcusestes <marcusestes@keybase.io>" successfully imported.
20:33 assbot Registration successful.
20:33 mats oh lawd
20:34 mats does keybase have your private key, popmechanic?
20:34 popmechanic no
20:34 mats ok good
20:35 BingoBoingo popmechanic: DO you work for Keybase or do they just offer email addy's at their domain.
20:36 danielpbarron that means his key was generated in web browser via javascript, I think
20:37 popmechanic Apparently they just offer email addresses? Not sure, first time I’ve used the service. I totally understand and am prepared to agree with a predjudice against a service like this, because they’re going to end up sitting on private keys. But it’s optional, and actually a pretty handy way to manage a few aspects of PGP management.
20:37 popmechanic Correct, I believe the key is generated client side.
20:37 trinque eh if it was generated in a browser it's still unsafe
20:38 trinque how can you be sure you're running the JS they intended? (or that their JS intends well)
20:38 danielpbarron it is possible to make your own key offline through keybase but I just don't see the point
20:38 BingoBoingo popmechanic: What OS are you on? Javascript RNGs are notoriously unsafe. As unsafe as Pirate Party RNGs
20:38 popmechanic Mac OS
20:39 mats popmechanic: piling on a bit here, but i suggest running it through Phuctor, a service that attempts to factor keys with weak moduli -- http://nosuchlabs.com
20:39 BingoBoingo popmechanic: Do you run Mac Ports?
20:40 mats to date, Phuctor has broken 300+ keys. see: http://nosuchlabs.com/stats
20:40 popmechanic I do, yes.
20:40 BingoBoingo popmechanic: Build GPG, preferably a 1.4.x series version and do the key generation thing again
20:42 BingoBoingo !up popmechanic
20:44 Adlai mats: i'm not sure you're reading that quite right
20:46 BingoBoingo mats: Phuctor broke 95. The duplicate modulus is a different kind of warning than broken
20:54 danielpbarron !up hazirafel
21:00 mats oops
21:01 BingoBoingo mats: happens
21:05 scoopbot_revived Limits of Moore's Law Challenge Intel - Questions About Future Performance http://qntra.net/2015/07/limits-of-moores-law-challenge-intel-questions-about-future-performance/
↖
21:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52750 @ 0.00054866 = 28.9418 BTC [+]
21:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110900 @ 0.00054446 = 60.3806 BTC [-] {2}
21:16 asciilifeform received block 0000000000000000123a
21:16 asciilifeform REORGANIZE
21:16 asciilifeform l0l
21:17 BingoBoingo https://voat.co/v/bitcoin/comments/295882
21:17 assbot Checking your bits ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBU4AC )
21:17 BingoBoingo OH SHIT REORG
21:18 asciilifeform eh, sop
21:18 asciilifeform just lulzy to see it when i randomly chanced to look at the latest crud scrolling by.
21:19 asciilifeform sorta like phosphenes
21:19 asciilifeform normally those happen once in a blue moon, largely for entirely harmless reasons, but,
21:19 asciilifeform when one is being irradiated to death, sees quite a few of'em
21:19 asciilifeform (or so i was told)
21:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 162500 @ 0.00052823 = 85.8374 BTC [-]
21:21 BingoBoingo This is indeed an irradiating time
21:24 BingoBoingo !up TheRealJohnGalt
21:28 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Telco+214+Inc/@28.04003,-80.595088,3a,75y,3.38h,89.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1supX6Yd_ND2dyvMRDvs96Yw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x88de12494bab5cdb:0x6c83f4d824af9701!6m1!1e1?hl=en << usg miner
21:28 assbot Google Maps ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3zkGj )
21:30 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: That's a big dish
21:33 asciilifeform http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-206-397-1975/4#p633425372283376590 << also lulzy rumour turd re: 'telco 214'
21:33 assbot Getting calls from 206-397-1975? 4/9 ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3zJZr )
21:38 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu didja ever write a piece about bernie cornfeld (1927-1995) ?
21:38 gribble The operation succeeded.
21:43 decimation what does this 'reorg' business imply
21:43 asciilifeform forklet
21:47 asciilifeform more lulz, http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=EntityName&directionType=Initial&searchNameOrder=TELCO214US%20P970000566471&aggregateId=domp-p97000056647-66b1a73f-30ca-492d-9daf-a39cf89e72cb&searchTerm=Telco%20214%20Us%2C%20Inc.&listNameOrder=TELCO214US%20P970000566471
21:47 assbot Detail by Entity Name ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3ANwq )
21:47 asciilifeform and in particular, http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/ConvertTiffToPDF?storagePath=COR1%5C2003%5C0421%5C80916068.Tif&documentNumber=P97000056647
21:47 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3AOjK )
21:48 asciilifeform amendment. change name from 'IBSA, US, Inc' to 'Telco 214 US, Inc'. March 13, '03
21:49 asciilifeform neither had any detectable public presence.
21:49 asciilifeform (other than the earlier link)
21:50 decimation asciilifeform: what do these companies do?
21:50 asciilifeform reminiscent of nothing more than the faux airlines used by cia
21:50 asciilifeform decimation: 'telco 214' is the owner of a single ip which houses, as far as i can tell, at least 2% of current net hash.
↖ ↖
21:50 decimation lulz
21:51 asciilifeform (why not parcel it through sp4mz0rpr0x13z!!111 like everybody else? damned if i know)
21:53 mats heh, how did you come upon this?
21:53 decimation https://www.google.com/maps/place/2571+Kirby+Cir+NE,+Palm+Bay,+FL+32905 < check out their 'principle place of business' listed in their annual report
21:53 assbot Google Maps ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kaa5AY )
21:54 asciilifeform mats: sheer accident
21:54 asciilifeform decimation: linked earlier
21:54 decimation massive satellite dishes, multiple
21:56 decimation biggest one is 12m according to google earth
21:56 asciilifeform http://whomined.com/#miner/37
21:57 * asciilifeform cannot comment on the quality of this survey, but it is not uninteresting
21:59 asciilifeform http://cpsociety.org/thomas-ndomb << lulzy. the one other public mention of 'telco 214' i've found so far.
21:59 assbot Thomas Ndomb « Cameroon Professional Society (CPS) Inc ... ( http://bit.ly/1KaaNhq )
22:01 asciilifeform https://openvpn.net/index.php/about-menu/advisory-board.html << and.
22:01 assbot Advisory Board ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kab2cj )
22:01 mats http://defcon.ws luls
22:01 assbot DEF CON Cancellation: An Open Letter ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kab5oK )
22:01 decimation lemme see if I can figure out which satellite the minor dishes are pointed at
22:01 asciilifeform 'Mr. Haba was Founder and Chief Technology Officer of Telco 214, an emerging leader in the international voice market that was successful in winning large market share from AT&T, MCI and Sprint. Mr. Haba began his career at Symetrics Industries, a publicly traded defense communications and computer telephony integrator....'
22:01 asciilifeform ^ the fl gov paperwork mentions haba
22:01 asciilifeform he was one of the two founding partners.
22:02 mats "I believe that we are in a post-hacker world ... We should strive to be professionals, making the Internet a safer place rather than exposing vulnerabilities that can be leveraged by criminals and terrorists. This is why I'm going to encourage you to attend professional security conferences like Black Hat, RSA, SANS and others"
22:02 asciilifeform l0l!!
22:02 asciilifeform Had Problemz!!
22:02 asciilifeform 'Professionals have professional credentials. If you want to participate in the security industry, you should obtain the appropriate certifications. ISC2, SANS, EC-Council and many vendors offer well regarded security certifications. '
22:03 asciilifeform 'I know there has been concerning news about the NSA overstepping its bounds regarding data collection and the US government's lack of action. I have worked closely with many government officials. What may appear as an erosion of our constitutional rights, are actually programs critically important to the safety of our country. Without the NSA data gathering programs, there would have already been a "Cyber 9/11". Unfortunately
22:03 asciilifeform , I can't reveal the details to support this statement but, knowing my honestly and character, you'll have to take me at my word. '
22:03 asciilifeform trol0l0l0l
22:03 mats DEFCON is not canceled, this is satire, for any casual observers
22:03 asciilifeform took me 30 sec or so
22:03 asciilifeform my first hypothesis was 'fella got truecrypted'
22:05 decimation asciilifeform: the northern two dishes appear to be pointed toward a heading of 107 degrees (true)
22:05 decimation that would line them up with Intelsat 905
22:05 asciilifeform l0l!
22:05 asciilifeform !b 3
22:05 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3KZ6Y7E.txt )
22:05 decimation it's easier than you would think to figure this out http://www.dishpointer.com/
22:06 assbot Satellite Finder / Dish Alignment Calculator with Google Maps | DishPointer.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1KabFTs )
22:06 decimation could also be SES-4
22:06 asciilifeform it is not difficult, where i come from it was done with paper and pen
22:06 decimation unfortunately the 12 meter dish is pointing up (probably 'safed') so I can't determine its bearing
22:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52100 @ 0.00054878 = 28.5914 BTC [+] {2}
22:06 asciilifeform not like you can hide a four-tonne tub of shit in orbit
22:07 decimation at any rate here's its orbital footprint http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Intelsat-905-Global.html
22:07 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KabY0k )
22:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43414 @ 0.00055299 = 24.0075 BTC [+] {2}
22:08 asciilifeform consistent with 'spam phones for africa'
22:08 decimation it has spot beams that cover africa, europe - and here's its 'public transponder listing' http://www.lyngsat.com/Intelsat-905.html
22:08 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3CzgW )
22:08 asciilifeform (the nominal business profile, to the extent one is known)
22:11 decimation http://www.loral.com/inthenews/020605.html "Each of the new Intelsat IX series satellites carries 76 C-band and 22 Ku-band operating transponders (in 36 MHz equivalents), and its solar arrays will generate more than 8.6 kilowatts of power (beginning of life)."
22:11 assbot LORAL-BUILT INTELSAT 905 TELECOMMUNICATIONS SATELLITE SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHED ... ( http://bit.ly/1KacmMu )
22:11 decimation plenty of bandwidth for an african isp
22:11 asciilifeform sounds like they're speaking of analogue bandwidth, to be fair
22:11 decimation yes, of course
22:13 decimation but they typically use 8 or 4 psk in those analog segments
22:14 asciilifeform from 'intelsat' www, it would appear that they serve nigerian sp4mz0r and homeland severity alike
22:15 decimation the lyngsat page says that at least two of the 30 MHz transponders are dedicated to AOL
22:16 decimation employing "ACM" which apparently switches between 4psk and 16 qam, which would allow a gross throughput of approx 60-120 megabit/sec
22:16 decimation per 30 mhz channel
22:17 decimation now, if these folks are running miners, the question is 'why over sat link'
22:18 asciilifeform https://ipinfo.io/AS35863
22:18 assbot AS35863 Telco 214, Inc. - ipinfo.io ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3DgqG )
22:18 asciilifeform and who said it was over satlink
22:18 decimation well, that office doesn't look like a very big data center
22:18 decimation also, did you note the military looking vehicles in their parking lot?
22:20 asciilifeform i only see ordinary cars
22:20 asciilifeform 4 of'em
22:21 asciilifeform (google 'street' dated april '11)
22:21 decimation no, look in the back of the lot
22:21 decimation you can see on streeview from the east side
22:22 asciilifeform link?
22:22 decimation I donno if you can link streetview
22:22 asciilifeform sure you can
22:24 decimation https://www.google.com/maps/@28.04002,-80.594633,3a,15y,350.65h,88.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szEyWP8_Z1sLrfJUNbmMH6Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
22:24 assbot Google Maps ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kae1l2 )
22:25 asciilifeform l0l aha
22:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35512 @ 0.00055305 = 19.6399 BTC [+]
22:28 asciilifeform https://www.google.com/maps/place/Telco+214+Inc/@28.0411393,-80.5949096,217m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x6c83f4d824af9701!6m1!1e1
22:28 assbot Google Maps ... ( http://bit.ly/1KaezY6 )
22:28 asciilifeform entirely plausible that mr spamphone likes buying surplus.
22:29 decimation yeah, that's my first guess too
22:29 decimation an odd business anyway
22:29 decimation it's odd they have such a massive dish too
22:29 asciilifeform i've passed up opportunities to own a truck quite like that, on account of having nowhere to keep it
22:29 decimation it's possible they use the massive dish to hit geo stuff that's very low on the horizon
22:30 decimation but that dish would cost a couple $ mil easy
22:31 decimation one wild theory: this isp and its hangers-on are 'owned' by some tinpot dictator in africa
22:31 decimation who also has access to 'free' electricity - which he uses to mine
22:32 decimation nigeria, for example, is drowning in cheap crude oil - could be 'diverted' to power someone's bitcoin mining operation
22:32 decimation for what reason God only knows
22:35 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> entirely plausible that mr spamphone likes buying surplus. << I remember in the old Tom Clancy novels his various supposed NatSec agencies being funded by "spamzors" and their financial equivalent.
22:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not afaik.
22:36 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> i've passed up opportunities to own a truck quite like that, on account of having nowhere to keep it << Truck like that keeps itself
22:36 decimation ??? how
22:40 BingoBoingo decimation: How does truck keep self?
22:40 decimation yeah? rusts, burns oil
22:41 mircea_popescu crude oil is not realy useful to power an electric plant.
22:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144950 @ 0.00054623 = 79.176 BTC [-] {4}
22:42 decimation sure, if you don't give a shit about nasty emissions
22:42 mircea_popescu nah. gotta appreciate, power plants are products of industry like anything else
22:42 mircea_popescu plenty of models made to run onm the heavy stuff left after gas distillation
22:43 mircea_popescu none of them run on crude, not since 1880 at any rate.
22:43 mircea_popescu putting gasoline in a diesel engine is not unlike putting crude oil in a tar or coal plant.
22:43 mircea_popescu and obv the naturasl gas models won't burn it
22:43 BingoBoingo decimation: I was more thinking about how such vehicles create space for themselves.
22:46 decimation mircea_popescu: ships, big power plants run on heavy fuel oil
22:46 BingoBoingo Sure, but heavy oil is not crude
22:49 decimation www.theatlantic.com/photo/2013/01/nigerias-illegal-oil-refineries/100439/ < they literally refine it in jungle conditions
22:49 TomServo In other news, I noticed this blurb on the OpenBSD octeon page today: "In June 2015 USB support was added which finally allowed installing to local disk on machines lacking a CF slot."
22:49 BingoBoingo TomServo: Cool
22:49 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=09-07-2015#1195719
22:49 assbot Logged on 09-07-2015 21:57:04; decimation: https://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/msg138968.html < ah well then I am pleased to annouce that apparently openbsd will be supporting oceton usb in the very near future
22:50 TomServo The docs don't exactly reflect it, but I can confirm the snapshot of 5.8 does see and boot from usb.
22:50 decimation TomServo: did you install directly onto usb?
22:50 BingoBoingo Nice, made it in before 5.8 hit Beta this week
22:50 decimation or did you write image from another computer?
22:50 TomServo Booted via tftp, installed from there
22:50 decimation ah, thanks for the good report
22:51 TomServo np
22:51 TomServo excited to have just gotten my first console on the edgerouter
22:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70789 @ 0.00055363 = 39.1909 BTC [+] {2}
22:55 decimation so the 5.8 release will probably be in the autumn sometime?
22:55 decimation http://www.utahrails.net/up/bunker-c.php < interesting discussion on bunker-c fuel oil
22:55 assbot Union Pacific, Bunker 'C' ... ( http://bit.ly/1fOkAA2 )
22:55 TomServo November, if I recall correctly.
22:55 decimation "Most oil-fired steam locomotives used Bunker C, although in some parts of the country they actually burned raw crude oil. As noted before, Bunker C was readily available and dirt cheap. (Steve Lee, April 18, 2000, via email to The Streamliner discussion group)"
22:56 BingoBoingo decimation: November
22:57 decimation https://powergen.gepower.com/plan-build/products/gas-turbines/9e-03-gas-turbine.html < would burn in something like this
22:57 assbot 9E.03 / 9E.04 Gas Turbine (50 Hz) | GE Power ... ( http://bit.ly/1fOkVTo )
22:57 BingoBoingo decimation: Point releases happen in May and November on the first
22:57 decimation BingoBoingo: ah thanks
22:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44551 @ 0.00055454 = 24.7053 BTC [+] {2}
23:03 mircea_popescu there are some "universal fuel" power generators, mostly marketed to end user derps
↖
23:04 mircea_popescu because who the fuck else would not know what fuel he wants to burn
23:04 mircea_popescu in any case the generality comes at an efficiency cost.
23:04 decimation well, a turbine can burn anything. but it's true that if you are burning raw crude it will foul your turbine and require much more maintenance
23:05 decimation because of all the solvents and other shit in the oil
23:06 decimation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_GTELs < us railroads used to run these right through the middle of the countryside, belching foul shit
23:06 assbot Union Pacific GTELs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1fOmIro )
23:06 BingoBoingo They still run through the middle of my countryside, still belch foul shit
23:07 decimation yeah but probably all diesel now
23:10 decimation it seems the real problem with burning crude or heavy fuel oil is that if you have enough civilization to refine the oil, you can make it into much more profitable products
23:10 decimation the net effect being that the amount of 'heavy fuel' (bunker b and c) has shrunk compared to old process - making it more expensive than just using diesel
23:11 decimation this isn't really true in areas that have no advanced refining available
23:12 mircea_popescu soo... imo musk's electric car has failed to reach the sort of growth patterns and penetration goals it needed to survive. it therefore peaked sometime last year, and it will go the same way all the numerous attempts at an electric car since the 20s have went.
23:12 mircea_popescu anyone wanna enter into a tesla stock swap with me /
23:12 mircea_popescu ?
23:12 decimation lul
23:13 decimation you should make a F.DERP for it?
23:14 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-07-2015#1204022 << the ultimate such is said to be... 'abrams' tank.
23:14 assbot Logged on 17-07-2015 03:03:55; mircea_popescu: there are some "universal fuel" power generators, mostly marketed to end user derps
23:14 asciilifeform which burns, iirc, ten litres, just to start
23:15 decimation asciilifeform: yes, but could probably run on 'jungle oil' if it isn't solidified
23:15 mircea_popescu there is good reason to build a universal engine into a tank intended for 1950s style attreition war.
23:17 mircea_popescu https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Union_Pacific_first_generation_GTEL_locomotive_1953.JPG << electric car, ftr.
23:17 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1fOop8j )
23:17 mircea_popescu 1923 Detroit Electric.
23:17 asciilifeform late in the game, too
23:18 asciilifeform height of electromobile was 1890s
23:18 mircea_popescu (exactly the hipster car of today, incdentally. marketed to women and doctors, had curved glass panes, etc)
23:18 decimation honestly elon musk strikes me as a highbrow scammer
23:18 decimation he's figured out how to sell 'dreams' in exchange for usg subsidy and hype
23:19 mircea_popescu this is the case of all us "entrepreneurs" active today.
23:19 mircea_popescu what's mark cuban ?
23:19 decimation to be fair, he does deliver products - rockets, cars, etc
23:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: musk is different in the sense of not running the usual 'populist' chumpatron
23:19 mircea_popescu scammed yahoo out of a billion, once
23:19 mircea_popescu made 100 different decisions since, 100 of which were wrong.
23:19 decimation but the economic prospects appear highly dubious
23:20 mircea_popescu a man batting < 1% is certainly not possessed of a clue in the field.
23:20 asciilifeform yet he sleeps ad libitum.
23:20 mircea_popescu all idiots sleep well.
23:20 mircea_popescu that's the mark of idiocy.
23:20 asciilifeform sorta the converse of the usual 'if yer so smart, why aitcha rich' line
23:20 asciilifeform 'if he's such a moron, why does he sleep ad libitum and has no fear of having to do honest wurk'
23:21 asciilifeform ditto branson
23:21 mircea_popescu lol branson, another fine example.
23:21 mircea_popescu he's the business world equivalent of a russian prison whore.
23:21 mircea_popescu every cock was in his asshole.
23:22 asciilifeform yet no matter what these folks do, they never seem to end up begging for change
23:22 asciilifeform or washing cars
23:22 asciilifeform 'wouldn't do', to have royalty besmirched thus
23:26 mircea_popescu msot of them do, yes.
23:26 mircea_popescu the substantial difference between the subset here named and the rest of the set consisting of various reddit experts and your spamming friend has nothing to do with them
23:26 asciilifeform re: oils: was very surprised to discover english (!) piece, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazut
23:26 assbot Mazut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HTrt98 )
23:26 mircea_popescu some earthworms find incredible caches of forgotten artefacts. doth not qualify them as archeologists.
23:27 mats tesla doesn't sell electric cars
23:28 mats they sell batteries and infrastructure
23:28 mircea_popescu romania has a bunch of these "intreprinzatori de carton", ie, cardboard entrepreneurs. one notable case (currently in jail) got to keep ~2bn worth of romanian govt money in 1989, on condition of supporting his friends.
23:28 mircea_popescu kept getting 3-500mn/year after that
23:28 mircea_popescu never actually supported anyone worth a squat and is now ~broke
23:28 decimation mats: ?? they have dealer rooms?
23:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42750 @ 0.0005594 = 23.9144 BTC [+] {2}
23:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: these are sop in the orc world, ru being perhaps the absolute epicentre. but in usa they are especially lulzy on account of the elaborate presences of 'doing business'
23:29 mats that was hyperbolic but you see my point yes?
23:29 mircea_popescu mats the offer stands, you know.
23:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform just as ellaborate on the other side.
23:29 mats hey, didn't say i'd bet against you
23:29 mircea_popescu catering to different expecations, yes, but anyway
23:29 mats they are massively overvalued right now and i would not be interested in taking the other side
23:29 mircea_popescu aha.
23:30 mats decimation: http://www.cnet.com/news/teslas-elon-musk-introduces-beautiful-money-saving-home-battery-back-up-system etc
23:30 assbot Tesla's Elon Musk introduces 'beautiful' money-saving home battery backup system - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1HTs0I1 )
23:30 decimation yes, note that this battery system costs many times more than lead-acid
23:31 decimation thus appealing to the kinds of people who want to store electricity but don't care about how much things cost
23:31 trinque I've seen a great many Solar City fliers around, speaking of Musk.
23:31 trinque (in Portland)
23:31 trinque hilariously, these would be useless during the rainy season
23:31 asciilifeform decimation: who 'doesn't care what it costs' - uses pumped hydro
23:31 mircea_popescu anyway, yes they produce cars, and the model s sold a whopping... 75k units
23:31 decimation trinque: they also rely heavily on subsidy
23:32 mircea_popescu that's exactly detroit electric volume touched up for the intervening century.
23:32 trinque decimation: certainly, and loose financing
23:32 mats asciilifeform: yes, and all usable sources have already been dammed
23:32 asciilifeform mats: ~pumped~
23:32 asciilifeform as in, gigantic bottles.
23:32 mircea_popescu in retrospect, his going to war with the dealers sunk his car business.
23:32 asciilifeform mats: energy storage.
23:32 mats oh, right. up and down hills and mountains.
23:32 mats i forgot how efficient it is
23:33 asciilifeform beats li ion
23:33 asciilifeform and the water - doesn't wear out after 200 cycles
23:33 decimation yeah, as in pumping to high lake and draining when needed, like this plant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
23:33 assbot Dinorwig Power Station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HTskGR )
23:34 mats fuck, people are still setting off fireworks in my area
23:34 asciilifeform usg actually had (has?) some chick leading a crackpot mains current to hydrocarbon (yes, electrolysis + oddball catalysts) mega-wunderwaffen dept. in the navy
23:35 asciilifeform no idea if it ever came up with a working nuke-to-petrol magic box.
23:35 decimation asciilifeform: whatever for?
23:35 decimation lol
23:35 decimation if you wanna waste electricity like that, might as well just split water and use hydrogen
23:35 asciilifeform fueling up jets from seawater + nuke plant, was the notion.
23:35 asciilifeform can't do worth shit with h2
23:35 asciilifeform certainly not in a jet
23:35 decimation yeah at least not in any existing ones
23:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26400 @ 0.0005649 = 14.9134 BTC [+]
23:36 asciilifeform anything involving gaseous h2 is the archetypical 'assembly line for ph.d.'
23:36 asciilifeform ever seen a hose for liquid h ?
23:36 decimation heh I've seen pictures
23:36 mats any idea what fuels modern jets? certainly not jp-9 anymore?
23:36 mircea_popescu just about.
23:36 asciilifeform iirc same thing everyone else burns
23:36 decimation kerosene, more or less
23:36 mircea_popescu iirc the "ethanol jet" thing got canned
23:36 asciilifeform jp-a
23:38 mats >A kerosene-based fuel, JP-8 is projected to remain in use at least until 2025. It was first introduced at NATO bases in 1978. Its NATO code is F-34.
23:38 mats how about that. late 70s tech still keeping the lights on.
23:38 decimation sure, turbine burns kerosene just fine
23:38 asciilifeform fuels haven't really changed (for the better) in a century.
23:39 decimation you could also burn 'heavy fuel oil' in theory, but that's not a terribly great idea in a high reliablity application
23:39 asciilifeform (for worse? sure! where i live, what comes out of the filling station is 10% ethanol ~by law~)
23:39 decimation but the abrams tank would burn jp-8 just fine
23:39 asciilifeform it will burn restaurant grease
23:39 asciilifeform by some accounts
23:39 decimation yeah, probably anything that will run through the pumps
23:41 BingoBoingo Conde Nast & Obama https://archive.is/XLc4K
23:41 assbot Condé Nast's CFO Tried To Pay $2,500 for a Night With a Gay Porn Star ... ( http://bit.ly/1fOs1qT )
23:42 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> in retrospect, his going to war with the dealers sunk his car business. << Beware the trade guilds
23:44 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0005649 = 5.2536 BTC [+]
23:44 mircea_popescu something liek that
23:45 mircea_popescu the alternative was also unpalatable tho. you don't want to engage in a bidding war with the dying gm/ford thing for their lasty remaining shred of relevancy
23:45 mircea_popescu you'll end up overpaying.
23:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49750 @ 0.00054734 = 27.2302 BTC [-]
23:45 mircea_popescu in any case, as a fun tidbit : the 2010 tesla ipo, first us carmaker ipo since ww2, came to half the recently reported plenty of fish sale
23:45 asciilifeform thing is, gm/ford vs tesla is a 'best horse in the glue factory' contest
23:45 asciilifeform american automobility has a very short life expectancy as a going concern
23:46 mircea_popescu (plenty of fish being the 5th or so dating site sold in a decade, which "Dating site" is the twelfth or so wheel on the social media band wagon)
23:46 decimation the only american autos that 'actual people' buy are trunks
23:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform precisely.
23:46 decimation trucks
23:47 mircea_popescu <ascii_field> but this brings us back to the question of whether mr s has ~intellectual authority~ << intellectual authority is a very simple thing in capitalism. see it at work in how the "blockchain size increase" was tranched : once someone says "this is how much it costs", the derps willing to talk were separated from the people willing to pay.
23:47 mircea_popescu on a tinier scale, just happened above re tesla, too.
23:47 decimation yeah, but what market? the 950/1000 block rule?
23:47 mircea_popescu in the end, it reduces to "does he have the intellectual authority to bluff". well... do you have the intellectual authority to call it ?
23:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: unless i misunderstood, your implication in earlier thread was that satoshi (in the person of his key) could pop up, propose some arbitrary strange, and have such carry weight on account of him being the famous satoshi
23:48 mircea_popescu decimation i mean the original, end of 2014/2015 dispute, about "herp derp we'll raise the block limit"
23:48 decimation ah yes
23:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you misunderstood.
23:49 mircea_popescu satoshi could pop up, propose some arbitrary strange, and have everyone (everyone that matters, ie, with money!) presented with the dilemma : do they buy up the stash ? or do they move on to the strange ?
23:49 mircea_popescu this is the only legitimate way to resolve disputes.
23:49 mircea_popescu if his strange sucks, he has nothing to stand on.
23:49 mircea_popescu if his strange does not suck, you can keep talking about its strangeness all you want.
23:49 asciilifeform but suppose that it is something quite like bitcoin circa '09.
23:49 trinque it would be an incredible thing if the man has the keys and has shown this much restraint
23:49 asciilifeform which did not suck (at least mathematically) in any particularly discernible way
23:50 mircea_popescu trinque not that incredible.
23:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform all i can say is i'd consider it fully.
23:50 mircea_popescu otherwise, not even the us supreme court rules without a case.
23:50 asciilifeform 'does not suck' today, i dare say, is a higher bar than in '09, when there was no bitcoin
23:50 mircea_popescu surely.
23:50 asciilifeform and no $maxint pumped into the storage battery
23:50 mircea_popescu on that point can there be no debate
23:50 mircea_popescu but 5bn is NO SORT OF MAXINT
23:50 asciilifeform ^ point
23:50 mircea_popescu it's a minint in this game.
23:50 decimation ^ yes, bitcoin is still peanuts
23:51 asciilifeform esp. given as it is denominated in zimbabwean unit
23:51 decimation which satoshi realizes, of course
23:51 asciilifeform (i.e. there are probably not 5bn 'turkey-buying-capable' dollars on planet)
23:52 mircea_popescu complicated matters.
23:52 mircea_popescu anyway, i'm off. cheerios.
23:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66391 @ 0.00054213 = 35.9926 BTC [-] {3}
23:58 * asciilifeform had a thought: possibly, if satoshi's stash were ~larger~ than it is, he could be considered 'beyond reproach' if he were to surface and propose a fork, on the logic that he could not stand to gain from any deception. but it still would not rule out usgification, or simple error.
23:59 asciilifeform at the risk of beating the record of mircea_popescu's pessimism on the subject of 'future bitcoin': i currently suspect that protocol change might be the proverbial 'stone so heavy, god cannot lift'
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