Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2021-06-22 | 2021-06-24 →
00:20 * asciilifeform would join thimbronion in this, but sadly hands more or less 100% full, and for remainder of week similarly
00:24 thimbronion gregorynyssa and I stumbled across an error message: ....Z...:gregory.nyssa 461 * SERVER :Not enough parameters
00:24 thimbronion seeing the same from irc.problematic.site.
~ 19 minutes ~
00:43 gregorynyssa asciilifeform: there is an error in the peering code of ratbox, version 3.0.10.
00:45 gregorynyssa it parses the SERVER command as "SERVER $1 $2 $3" but sends it as "SERVER $1 $2 :"
00:45 gregorynyssa this is in modules/core/m_server.c
00:46 gregorynyssa that is the source of the "not enough parameters" error.
00:46 gregorynyssa I was able to get peering working with thimbronion, with him using ratbox, and myself using another IRCD.
00:47 gregorynyssa but when we both use ratbox, then the "not enough parameters" error occurs.
00:47 gregorynyssa are you thinking of creating a V repository for "The Real Ratbox?"
~ 36 minutes ~
01:24 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: possibly. but strictly if it can be made to pass basic smoke tests, and behave minimally sanely.
01:24 snsabot Logged on 2021-06-22 14:06:58 asciilifeform: that means, among other things, that the folx who can presently connect, must auto-reconnect; and rando bots w/ blank pw -- not connect.
01:24 snsabot Logged on 2021-06-22 14:34:40 asciilifeform: at minimum, oughta be able to define 3 passworded users : 1) self 2) dulapbot 3) guest
01:25 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: abstractly, yes, i want a vgenesis of ~a~ usable, for this application, item. is 'ratbox' shortest path to this? nfi currently
01:25 asciilifeform really i need a new c ball o'shit to maintain like i need a new hole in my head.
01:27 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040486 << pretty interesting, apparently author did not believe in even basic testing..
01:27 snsabot Logged on 2021-06-22 20:45:00 gregorynyssa: it parses the SERVER command as "SERVER $1 $2 $3" but sends it as "SERVER $1 $2 :"
01:30 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: btw mine's 3.0.9 and i thought it was latest
01:30 asciilifeform (when was 3.0.10 released?)
01:31 asciilifeform here's a mega-question : what was the original ircd of 1980s? can get src for this? build today ?
01:41 shinohai asciilifeform: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/unix/irc/server/Old/
01:41 shinohai oldest one I know of
01:42 shinohai Dunno if can build, that I have not yet tried, but might be worthy experiment.
01:45 asciilifeform shinohai: i'll be quite astonished if it builds w/out modification. but potentially more tractable problem than civilizing a current-day one
01:49 shinohai Anywho, afaik last reliable place on web to get original ircd sauces of 90's vintage.
01:50 asciilifeform ty shinohai . worth mirroring.
~ 20 minutes ~
02:10 shinohai Another resource of slightly newer vintage http://www.irc.org/ftp/irc/server/
~ 1 hours 46 minutes ~
03:56 bonechewer Speaking of 'balls of C shit', I have no idea whether this [https://github.com/ngircd/ngircd] [ground-up rewrite] is worth being aware of, but at least it can be linked statically without sslism.
04:01 asciilifeform bonechewer: it seems to weigh ~considerably~ more (loc) than 'ratbox'
04:01 asciilifeform it's fucking ridiculous. i've used operating systems having fewer loc than this ircd!!!!
04:02 * asciilifeform bbl
~ 37 minutes ~
04:40 verisimilitude Why not abandon IRC and use something else?
04:41 verisimilitude There's so few of us, having TCP streams open with everyone else could even work. We could throw UDP packets at a logging daemon here and use the logs to get the whole conversation.
~ 5 hours 51 minutes ~
10:33 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040501 << the original "ircd" was written by a Finnish man surnamed Oikarinen.
10:33 snsabot Logged on 2021-06-22 21:31:28 asciilifeform: here's a mega-question : what was the original ircd of 1980s? can get src for this? build today ?
10:34 gregorynyssa the "ratbox" program descends from that original codebase. we know this because the codebase of "ratbox" gives credit to Oikarinen.
10:35 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040500 << 2016, it seems
10:35 snsabot Logged on 2021-06-22 21:30:18 asciilifeform: (when was 3.0.10 released?)
10:35 gregorynyssa https://www.ratbox.org/download/
10:38 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040509 << this was recommended by someone from Suckless.
10:38 snsabot Logged on 2021-06-22 23:56:41 bonechewer: Speaking of 'balls of C shit', I have no idea whether this [https://github.com/ngircd/ngircd] [ground-up rewrite] is worth being aware of, but at least it can be linked statically without sslism.
~ 2 hours 34 minutes ~
13:12 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040513 << for one thing, if yer 'something else' doesn't have at least irc-compat. front-end, you're then also signing up to write errybody a new client. for all known os and ui paradigms. goodluck w/ that
13:12 dulapbot Logged on 2021-06-23 00:40:12 verisimilitude: Why not abandon IRC and use something else?
13:14 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040514 << i dunno that i could think of a worse shape for this if i tried. you gotta be joking, verisimilitude
13:14 dulapbot Logged on 2021-06-23 00:41:54 verisimilitude: There's so few of us, having TCP streams open with everyone else could even work. We could throw UDP packets at a logging daemon here and use the logs to get the whole conversation.
13:14 asciilifeform the fuck do i or anyone else want with a piece of shit ~more~ fragile than classical irc?!!
13:15 PeterL If we are going to design something new, how about just throwing UDP packets at each other and leave out tcp?
13:16 asciilifeform PeterL: it ain't a 'just', there's nontrivial mechanics involved in making it so that all net participants see even roughly same picture
13:17 asciilifeform PeterL: at the risk of repeating -- i was specifically looking to avoid, for the time being, 'design something new'
13:18 PeterL right, set up IRC now, worry about designing ideal communication software at a later point
13:26 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040515 << found an interesting chronology re subj.
13:26 dulapbot Logged on 2021-06-23 06:33:22 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040501 << the original "ircd" was written by a Finnish man surnamed Oikarinen.
13:27 asciilifeform PeterL: fact is, to make something ~substantially~ an improvement on classical irc, is a nontrivial project, for which no one tuned in presently has the time.
13:28 asciilifeform (and apparently no one ~not~ tuned in, in so far as publicly visible, either!)
13:28 asciilifeform irc -- still the state of the art.
13:28 asciilifeform 30+yrs later.
13:30 PeterL other option is to use proprietary ???? that uses GB of memory to share text (but it comes with a slick user interface!), and people seem to be ok with that
~ 53 minutes ~
14:23 trinque yep, ratbox is one side of the lineage that forked into iirc efnet and undernet
14:23 trinque it's weird that I was able to peer my two instances with no problems, but others had this problem with the SERVER command
14:24 trinque I'm curious whether y'all built from src, as perhaps distro maintainers patched the thing, who knows
14:25 trinque at any rate, it does look like a complicated ball of shit, though I'm suspicious that anything which implements "IRC" to any reasonable extent will also be a katamari of hacks
14:26 * trinque cautions folks to not let this consume too much constructive effort. it's just a stopgap.
14:26 asciilifeform trinque: i built 3.0.9 from src, but did not even make it to attempt at peering, got stuck in earlier setup
14:26 snsabot Logged on 2021-06-22 21:30:09 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: btw mine's 3.0.9 and i thought it was latest
14:26 snsabot Logged on 2021-06-22 13:53:34 asciilifeform: signpost: update re 'ratbox' on my end -- wrote init.d scriptola for it; still can't figure out 1) why pauses for 15-20s when user logs in. 'disable_auth' (kill the idiotic 'identd' connection attempt from 1990s irc practice) strangely does not fix. 2) how to carry over the user/password thing i had w/ 'unreal'.
14:27 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040538 << who wants to go to aol -- can go right now. just don't expect me to come, i aint coming
14:27 dulapbot Logged on 2021-06-23 09:30:02 PeterL: other option is to use proprietary ???? that uses GB of memory to share text (but it comes with a slick user interface!), and people seem to be ok with that
14:27 trinque ever the fucking junkyard wars eh
14:27 asciilifeform aaha
14:27 * trinque will throw some more time at this soon
14:27 asciilifeform ty trinque
14:28 asciilifeform trinque: possibly my hands grow from arse, but i was not even able to set up working per-user password auth.
14:29 asciilifeform no matter what i tried, ended up with 'anyone can log in as anything with any pw'
14:29 asciilifeform (aaand it takes 15-20s for login, for no detectable reason. thought 'identd', found the off switch for same, made 0 diff)
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~
15:31 gregorynyssa trinque: I built "ratbox" from the source-code, yes. I suspect that the distribution-packages contain special patches.
15:33 gregorynyssa asciilifeform: IRC was designed as a system for conversations between idle strangers. per-user authentication contradicts decades of engrained customs.
~ 38 minutes ~
16:12 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: i'm aware
~ 3 hours 14 minutes ~
19:27 shinohai https://elpais.com/economia/2021-06-23/el-fundador-del-antivirus-mcafee-john-mcafee-se-suicida-en-una-prision-de-barcelona.html <<< if there was Qntra would cover
~ 15 minutes ~
19:42 verisimilitude He's dead?
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
20:50 asciilifeform shinohai: mcafee? eh, shitcoinists... what's one less?
~ 34 minutes ~
21:24 verisimilitude Hey asciilifeform, expect a comment on FFA soon. Some fellow Ada programmer has some style question; I had to help him get past the spam trap.
21:35 asciilifeform verisimilitude: aite. no need to warn me about these, let'em comment like errybody else, at their leisure
21:37 verisimilitude Really, I just found it amusing I'd to help someone solve the spam trap.
21:38 verisimilitude It's amazing how such a simple question works so well.
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