00:20 |
* |
asciilifeform would join thimbronion in this, but sadly hands more or less 100% full, and for remainder of week similarly |
00:24 |
thimbronion |
gregorynyssa and I stumbled across an error message: ....Z...:gregory.nyssa 461 * SERVER :Not enough parameters |
00:24 |
thimbronion |
seeing the same from irc.problematic.site. |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
00:43 |
gregorynyssa |
asciilifeform: there is an error in the peering code of ratbox, version 3.0.10. |
00:45 |
gregorynyssa |
it parses the SERVER command as "SERVER $1 $2 $3" but sends it as "SERVER $1 $2 :" |
| |
↖ ↖ |
00:45 |
gregorynyssa |
this is in modules/core/m_server.c |
00:46 |
gregorynyssa |
that is the source of the "not enough parameters" error. |
00:46 |
gregorynyssa |
I was able to get peering working with thimbronion, with him using ratbox, and myself using another IRCD. |
00:47 |
gregorynyssa |
but when we both use ratbox, then the "not enough parameters" error occurs. |
00:47 |
gregorynyssa |
are you thinking of creating a V repository for "The Real Ratbox?" |
| |
~ 36 minutes ~ |
01:24 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: possibly. but strictly if it can be made to pass basic smoke tests, and behave minimally sanely. |
01:24 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-22 14:06:58 asciilifeform: that means, among other things, that the folx who can presently connect, must auto-reconnect; and rando bots w/ blank pw -- not connect. |
01:24 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-22 14:34:40 asciilifeform: at minimum, oughta be able to define 3 passworded users : 1) self 2) dulapbot 3) guest |
01:25 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: abstractly, yes, i want a vgenesis of ~a~ usable, for this application, item. is 'ratbox' shortest path to this? nfi currently |
01:25 |
asciilifeform |
really i need a new c ball o'shit to maintain like i need a new hole in my head. |
01:27 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040486 << pretty interesting, apparently author did not believe in even basic testing.. |
01:27 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-22 20:45:00 gregorynyssa: it parses the SERVER command as "SERVER $1 $2 $3" but sends it as "SERVER $1 $2 :" |
01:30 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: btw mine's 3.0.9 and i thought it was latest |
| |
↖ |
01:30 |
asciilifeform |
(when was 3.0.10 released?) |
| |
↖ |
01:31 |
asciilifeform |
here's a mega-question : what was the original ircd of 1980s? can get src for this? build today ? |
| |
↖ |
01:41 |
shinohai |
asciilifeform: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/unix/irc/server/Old/ |
01:41 |
shinohai |
oldest one I know of |
01:42 |
shinohai |
Dunno if can build, that I have not yet tried, but might be worthy experiment. |
01:45 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: i'll be quite astonished if it builds w/out modification. but potentially more tractable problem than civilizing a current-day one |
01:49 |
shinohai |
Anywho, afaik last reliable place on web to get original ircd sauces of 90's vintage. |
01:50 |
asciilifeform |
ty shinohai . worth mirroring. |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
02:10 |
shinohai |
Another resource of slightly newer vintage http://www.irc.org/ftp/irc/server/ |
| |
~ 1 hours 46 minutes ~ |
03:56 |
bonechewer |
Speaking of 'balls of C shit', I have no idea whether this [https://github.com/ngircd/ngircd] [ground-up rewrite] is worth being aware of, but at least it can be linked statically without sslism. |
| |
↖ |
04:01 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: it seems to weigh ~considerably~ more (loc) than 'ratbox' |
04:01 |
asciilifeform |
it's fucking ridiculous. i've used operating systems having fewer loc than this ircd!!!! |
04:02 |
* |
asciilifeform bbl |
| |
~ 37 minutes ~ |
04:40 |
verisimilitude |
Why not abandon IRC and use something else? |
| |
↖ |
04:41 |
verisimilitude |
There's so few of us, having TCP streams open with everyone else could even work. We could throw UDP packets at a logging daemon here and use the logs to get the whole conversation. |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 5 hours 51 minutes ~ |
10:33 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040501 << the original "ircd" was written by a Finnish man surnamed Oikarinen. |
| |
↖ |
10:33 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-22 21:31:28 asciilifeform: here's a mega-question : what was the original ircd of 1980s? can get src for this? build today ? |
10:34 |
gregorynyssa |
the "ratbox" program descends from that original codebase. we know this because the codebase of "ratbox" gives credit to Oikarinen. |
10:35 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040500 << 2016, it seems |
10:35 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-22 21:30:18 asciilifeform: (when was 3.0.10 released?) |
10:35 |
gregorynyssa |
https://www.ratbox.org/download/ |
10:38 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040509 << this was recommended by someone from Suckless. |
10:38 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-22 23:56:41 bonechewer: Speaking of 'balls of C shit', I have no idea whether this [https://github.com/ngircd/ngircd] [ground-up rewrite] is worth being aware of, but at least it can be linked statically without sslism. |
| |
~ 2 hours 34 minutes ~ |
13:12 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040513 << for one thing, if yer 'something else' doesn't have at least irc-compat. front-end, you're then also signing up to write errybody a new client. for all known os and ui paradigms. goodluck w/ that |
| |
↖ |
13:12 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-06-23 00:40:12 verisimilitude: Why not abandon IRC and use something else? |
13:14 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040514 << i dunno that i could think of a worse shape for this if i tried. you gotta be joking, verisimilitude |
13:14 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-06-23 00:41:54 verisimilitude: There's so few of us, having TCP streams open with everyone else could even work. We could throw UDP packets at a logging daemon here and use the logs to get the whole conversation. |
13:14 |
asciilifeform |
the fuck do i or anyone else want with a piece of shit ~more~ fragile than classical irc?!! |
13:15 |
PeterL |
If we are going to design something new, how about just throwing UDP packets at each other and leave out tcp? |
13:16 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: it ain't a 'just', there's nontrivial mechanics involved in making it so that all net participants see even roughly same picture |
13:17 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: at the risk of repeating -- i was specifically looking to avoid, for the time being, 'design something new' |
13:18 |
PeterL |
right, set up IRC now, worry about designing ideal communication software at a later point |
13:26 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040515 << found an interesting chronology re subj. |
13:26 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-06-23 06:33:22 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040501 << the original "ircd" was written by a Finnish man surnamed Oikarinen. |
13:27 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: fact is, to make something ~substantially~ an improvement on classical irc, is a nontrivial project, for which no one tuned in presently has the time. |
13:28 |
asciilifeform |
(and apparently no one ~not~ tuned in, in so far as publicly visible, either!) |
13:28 |
asciilifeform |
irc -- still the state of the art. |
13:28 |
asciilifeform |
30+yrs later. |
13:30 |
PeterL |
other option is to use proprietary ???? that uses GB of memory to share text (but it comes with a slick user interface!), and people seem to be ok with that |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 53 minutes ~ |
14:23 |
trinque |
yep, ratbox is one side of the lineage that forked into iirc efnet and undernet |
14:23 |
trinque |
it's weird that I was able to peer my two instances with no problems, but others had this problem with the SERVER command |
14:24 |
trinque |
I'm curious whether y'all built from src, as perhaps distro maintainers patched the thing, who knows |
14:25 |
trinque |
at any rate, it does look like a complicated ball of shit, though I'm suspicious that anything which implements "IRC" to any reasonable extent will also be a katamari of hacks |
14:26 |
* |
trinque cautions folks to not let this consume too much constructive effort. it's just a stopgap. |
14:26 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: i built 3.0.9 from src, but did not even make it to attempt at peering, got stuck in earlier setup |
14:26 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-22 21:30:09 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: btw mine's 3.0.9 and i thought it was latest |
14:26 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-22 13:53:34 asciilifeform: signpost: update re 'ratbox' on my end -- wrote init.d scriptola for it; still can't figure out 1) why pauses for 15-20s when user logs in. 'disable_auth' (kill the idiotic 'identd' connection attempt from 1990s irc practice) strangely does not fix. 2) how to carry over the user/password thing i had w/ 'unreal'. |
14:27 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040538 << who wants to go to aol -- can go right now. just don't expect me to come, i aint coming |
14:27 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-06-23 09:30:02 PeterL: other option is to use proprietary ???? that uses GB of memory to share text (but it comes with a slick user interface!), and people seem to be ok with that |
14:27 |
trinque |
ever the fucking junkyard wars eh |
14:27 |
asciilifeform |
aaha |
14:27 |
* |
trinque will throw some more time at this soon |
14:27 |
asciilifeform |
ty trinque |
14:28 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: possibly my hands grow from arse, but i was not even able to set up working per-user password auth. |
14:29 |
asciilifeform |
no matter what i tried, ended up with 'anyone can log in as anything with any pw' |
14:29 |
asciilifeform |
(aaand it takes 15-20s for login, for no detectable reason. thought 'identd', found the off switch for same, made 0 diff) |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~ |
15:31 |
gregorynyssa |
trinque: I built "ratbox" from the source-code, yes. I suspect that the distribution-packages contain special patches. |
15:33 |
gregorynyssa |
asciilifeform: IRC was designed as a system for conversations between idle strangers. per-user authentication contradicts decades of engrained customs. |
| |
~ 38 minutes ~ |
16:12 |
asciilifeform |
gregorynyssa: i'm aware |
| |
~ 3 hours 14 minutes ~ |
19:27 |
shinohai |
https://elpais.com/economia/2021-06-23/el-fundador-del-antivirus-mcafee-john-mcafee-se-suicida-en-una-prision-de-barcelona.html <<< if there was Qntra would cover |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
19:42 |
verisimilitude |
He's dead? |
| |
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~ |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: mcafee? eh, shitcoinists... what's one less? |
| |
~ 34 minutes ~ |
21:24 |
verisimilitude |
Hey asciilifeform, expect a comment on FFA soon. Some fellow Ada programmer has some style question; I had to help him get past the spam trap. |
21:35 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: aite. no need to warn me about these, let'em comment like errybody else, at their leisure |
21:37 |
verisimilitude |
Really, I just found it amusing I'd to help someone solve the spam trap. |
21:38 |
verisimilitude |
It's amazing how such a simple question works so well. |