Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-05-06 | 2021-05-08 → ↓
09:40 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
09:40 btcinfobot Current BTC price in USD: $57256.15
09:40 asciilifeform !w poll
09:40 watchglass Polling 16 nodes...
09:40 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
09:40 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
09:40 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=681962
09:40 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.085s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
09:40 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.087s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
09:40 watchglass 108.31.170.100:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.098s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396 (Operator: asciilifeform)
09:40 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.114s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
09:40 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=682396 (Operator: whaack)
09:40 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.101s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
09:40 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.205s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
09:40 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.305s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
~ 48 minutes ~
10:29 billymg the updated version of the crawler has been humming along nicely since last night, it's now up to ~4900 nodes discovered (heathen sites report over 9000)
10:29 billymg 16 of those have 'therealbitcoin.org' in the user agent string
10:31 billymg i'm also now storing the last list of peers returned by each node as a step towards being able to build a graph of the network
10:31 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-04 17:38:31 asciilifeform: billymg: my original half-baked attempt at this, had the aim of being a ~realtime graph of nodez, such as to determine how the hell blox actually propagate, and to what extent is possible to determine just from where, and other pertinent facts
10:32 billymg (vs. previously just using them for the next polling pass)
10:32 billymg as well as storing the complete version message payload that was broadcast when doing the probe
10:34 billymg this can be used for debug/investigative purposes, and the proggy uses it to determine a "version message strategy" (i.e. whether or not it includes the prb byte and which self version it advertises) to coax peers out of the interrogated node
10:36 asciilifeform billymg: neato!
10:36 billymg not yet implemented is a "probe history" column, which will store the results of the last N poll attempts for each node (also for debug/investigative purposes)
10:36 billymg asciilifeform: it was quite the crash course in concurrent programming for me
10:38 billymg the thing flies now though
10:47 billymg looking at the last_probed column in the db, and with max sockets set at 50 (i made this a config value), it processes the entire list of nodes in the db in ~13 minutes
10:49 billymg meaning each node gets hit approximately once every 13 minutes, with the ~5k in the db now. the maxsockets value is the main means of throttling currently so i'd guess one would want to set this lower when starting out so as not to wear out their welcome with any nodes on the network
10:51 billymg thinking about it now though i should probably sort on the last_probed column when selecting from the db
10:52 asciilifeform billymg: consider to genesis this proggy. will be very interesting to read (esp. for asciilifeform , who had a half-written attempt at this 1y+ ago)
10:54 billymg asciilifeform: definitely will
11:05 billymg asciilifeform: btw do you perhaps use any kind of python linter for auto-formatting or have a style guide i should reference? i'm familiar with javascript conventions but not always sure what python programmers prefer
11:09 asciilifeform billymg: i've always simply let emacs indent pythonisms per the defaults. there aint so much room for variation, there, given as it's a cobolistic whitespace-significant lang
11:13 billymg ok, i've taken some notes from the patterns i saw in watchglass, otherwise i've just been trying to keep it consistent/readable
~ 3 hours 12 minutes ~
14:26 asciilifeform billymg: interestingly, loox like yer right, 'bitnodes' does in fact explicitly censor trb nao.
14:26 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-03 12:06:30 billymg: my reason for doing so was because both bitnodes and coin.dance stopped tracking trb with their crawlers. i used to be able to check from time to time to see how many trb nodes are out there
14:26 asciilifeform will pretend, if manually queried by ip, that any trb noad 'unreachable'
14:27 asciilifeform aaand incidentally not by way of ver number, or the coupla of trb noads set to 70000 would appear
14:27 asciilifeform (they do not)
14:28 asciilifeform e.g. prb set to 70001 appears just fine.
14:29 asciilifeform !w probe 100.0.189.111
14:30 watchglass 100.0.189.111:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
14:32 asciilifeform ok, how about:
14:32 asciilifeform !w probe 73.228.104.146
14:32 watchglass 73.228.104.146:8333 : (c-73-228-104-146.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Alive: (0.218s) V=70001 (/Satoshi:0.8.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=350394
14:32 asciilifeform ^ shows on bitnodes www.
14:32 asciilifeform so it clearly aint about the flag bits, prb 0.8.1 presents as trb-compat. (i.e. no segshit etc)
14:33 asciilifeform !w probe 76.178.20.185
14:34 asciilifeform list of similar boxes there, ftr.
14:34 watchglass 76.178.20.185:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
14:36 asciilifeform the bitnodes crawler is supposedly open src -- anyone have time to set it up an' see whether barfs on trb for protocol-related reason ?
14:38 * asciilifeform looked at their config, nothing in it gives an obvious answer
14:41 billymg asciilifeform: lotta hoops to jump through in setting it up: https://github.com/ayeowch/bitnodes/wiki/Provisioning-Bitcoin-Network-Crawler
14:41 asciilifeform billymg: presently imho all evidence points to the bitnodes operator manually blacklisting trb wherever found.
14:42 billymg i initially looked at it with the idea of repurposing for my crawler, barfed at 1001 dependencies pulled in, then remembered, "hey, watchglass does this"
14:45 asciilifeform even e.g. this kinda garbage still listed.
14:46 billymg lol yeah
14:46 billymg someone forgot to shutdown their amazon instance
14:46 billymg ahem, sorry, "digital ocean"
14:47 asciilifeform billymg: that aint the remarkable bit, but that bitnodes operator happily lists crapola which breaks protocol a la long-forgotten 2017isms
14:47 asciilifeform but ohnoez, mustn't show trb..
14:49 asciilifeform anyone who can find a contact email addr for the thing, encouraged to write..
14:50 asciilifeform gotta admit to a curiosity re what, if anything, would answer.
14:52 billymg he's got his email listed
14:53 billymg https://github.com/ayeowch
14:53 asciilifeform billymg: if you've the time, consider to write? ( shinohai ? et al )
14:57 billymg i'm not terribly motivated to reach out to him myself, but i'll share his email with someone who wants to since i already have the shithub account required to view it
14:58 verisimilitude I'd bother him, but I wouldn't know enough to ask a good question.
14:58 billymg actually, shithub account not even needed, he's got it published at the top of his source files https://github.com/ayeowch/bitnodes/blob/master/protocol.py
14:59 asciilifeform lol there it is
15:03 verisimilitude The version must be greater than seven thousand, yes.
15:03 * asciilifeform wrote
↖
15:03 asciilifeform verisimilitude: 99999>70001
15:05 verisimilitude Oh, I wasn't paying attention well enough.
15:06 asciilifeform i'll be surprised if writes back. but was worth a shot.
15:10 verisimilitude A surprising amount of emails go unanswered; I once wrote to a fellow on Hacker News, to let him know I thought his comment was stupid, and why, but never received a response, for some reason.
15:11 shinohai I wrote the coin.dance guy twice about updating trb info ~2 years ago, never heard a thing back.
15:11 asciilifeform shinohai: unsurprise
15:11 * shinohai thinks coin.dance is run by a BTrasher ....
15:21 asciilifeform shinohai: for many yrs, i've not encounterd a public bitcoin-related thing, run by someone out of asciilifeform's l1, that isn't in some obvious way an act of wrecking
15:23 verisimilitude Oh, say, I think I've cured myself of regularly visiting Hacker News, but did see something interesting recently.
15:24 verisimilitude Who here has heard of ``Mighty Browser'', a VC company doing what Cloudflare plans to, providing a remote WWW browser?
15:25 asciilifeform verisimilitude: dafuq is a remote www browser ?
15:25 asciilifeform (and why wouldja want one?)
15:25 billymg asciilifeform: it's a browser in your browser, dawg
↖
15:25 asciilifeform why???
15:26 billymg lol i was just making a joke off the "yo dawg..." meme
15:26 shinohai "I heard you like browsers, so here's a browser in a browser"
15:26 verisimilitude It's a WWW browser running on another machine, because WWW cretins refuse to optimize anything.
15:26 asciilifeform verisimilitude: and through what does one operate it ?
15:27 verisimilitude I don't know; Cloudflare proposed using a WWW browser for the WWW browser>
15:27 asciilifeform i suppose this nonsense 'crossed parody horizon' long ago
15:27 verisimilitude Yes.
15:27 * asciilifeform can't think of any pov from which this is interesting, aside from the strictly psychiatric
15:28 verisimilitude For all of the crowing about Bitcoin power consumption, I wonder how much WWW cretins waste.
15:29 verisimilitude Oh, but running Slack is more useful than Bitcoin, right!
15:33 verisimilitude Really, it's interesting how incompetent they're; it goes beyond avoiding optimizations for comprehensibility.
15:35 asciilifeform verisimilitude: next could wonder how much ferrying chair warmers to/from cube hell wastes
↖
15:35 asciilifeform or usg's battleships moving back'n'forth across ocean. etc
15:36 verisimilitude My chosen example is ``high-speed trading''.
15:36 asciilifeform verisimilitude: avoiding comprehensibility is the #1 objective in all of these.
15:36 verisimilitude Those people should be killed in the streets.
15:36 asciilifeform verisimilitude: the traders seem like a poor example, just how many of such 'core wars players' even are there.
15:37 verisimilitude There are too many.
15:39 billymg incidentally, they ran the numbers on this one and decided "too much"
15:39 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-07 15:35:18 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: next could wonder how much ferrying chair warmers to/from cube hell wastes
15:40 asciilifeform billymg: evidently not Officially 'too much', if the practice is getting brought back?
15:40 asciilifeform (as it appears to be)
15:41 billymg i'm betting it'll be some kind of 50/50 thing, or up to the employee to some degree (and of course most would rather not work at home than pretend to work in the office)
15:42 billymg so even after "reopening" will be a large net reduction
15:42 verisimilitude A workplace shooting is very different working from home, as well.
15:43 asciilifeform verisimilitude: while 'sexy' to picture that postalists had sumthing to do with closing the cube hells, the numbers don't seem to support this idea
15:43 asciilifeform not so many of'em.
15:46 asciilifeform verisimilitude: outta curiosity, what do you have against the 'fast traders' ? (not that they're societally useful; but seems like a rather niche example, and no scale to speak of, all the people and machines involved would prolly fit in one train car)
15:55 verisimilitude I didn't believe them to be a reason.
15:56 verisimilitude I loathe financial games, and they boast of having network cables and other things wasted on them.
15:57 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i suspect the old-style 'low frequency' traders burn moar resources (if not as 'spectacularly', they work over pnoje etc)
15:58 verisimilitude If I were to loathe a trading card game, a fellow who only plays with limited edition cards he has spent thousands on may anger me more.
16:00 asciilifeform verisimilitude: not having played such games, i suspect the analogy is lost on me?
16:00 asciilifeform aint these a case of 'fool and his money soon parted' ?
16:05 verisimilitude I loathe flamboyant and obnoxious homosexuals moreso than lesser homosexuals.
16:06 asciilifeform verisimilitude: can picture; but how do these connect? are there 'flamboyant' hft people in yer social circle ?
16:06 verisimilitude Fine: a high-speed trader killed my father.
16:07 asciilifeform verisimilitude: srsly? (how??)
16:07 verisimilitude No.
16:08 asciilifeform fwiw asciilifeform probably would not even know that hftism exists if it were not for propaganda on www all of which ultimately traceable to 'low-speed traders'
16:08 asciilifeform ( the latter seem to have a traditional enmity with 'high speed' ones, see it as a 'breaking geneva convention' of a kind)
16:10 verisimilitude Be asciilifeform unfamiliar with the ``a _ killed my father'' cliche?
16:10 verisimilitude It's common in Westerns.
16:10 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i only recall in 'princess bride'.
16:11 verisimilitude Well, know it's almost always used in a joking way by native speakers.
16:11 * asciilifeform suspected
16:14 asciilifeform verisimilitude: as general principle, keep in mind that if you read an 'expose' somewhere in nyt, hn, etc (all same for this purpose) and then feel 'emo', 'kill in the streets!' etc., this was the ~intended~ reaction and it was paid for by someone.
16:14 asciilifeform to manipulate naive reader.
16:15 asciilifeform right nao (and for ~10y nao!) they're churning these out re bitcoin.
16:15 asciilifeform (and by all signs, worx on plenty of people)
16:17 verisimilitude Call me idealistic, but I prefer to think most of my hatred is mine.
16:17 asciilifeform this is not even to say that the 'fud' necessarily consists of ~falsehoods~. but in all cases is intended to distract.
16:17 verisimilitude Anyway, I learned of them because they're discussed in programming circles occasionally.
16:18 asciilifeform verisimilitude: they seem to be mentioned in quasi-legendary context strictly, 'that's where people still care about latency in nanoseconds, write in asm' etc. but few hard facts publicly known re subj.
16:18 verisimilitude I've never felt ``emo'', to clarify.
16:21 asciilifeform verisimilitude: you may find interesting -- at one time we had thread re whether hftism even exists as-advertised.
16:21 snsabot (trilema) 2017-04-10 asciilifeform: ( it they do not exist, it is then a piece of evidence in favour of 'hft does not actually exist, you cannot actually make any money by undercutting by nanosecond ' )
16:24 * asciilifeform since that thrd , had occasion to verify that errything mp had said in it was true..
16:36 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-04-10#1641836 Elaborate.
16:36 snsabot (trilema) 2017-04-10 asciilifeform: intelligent (in the glass bead sense) folx who are unbound from reality, tend to birth monsters.
16:37 asciilifeform verisimilitude: take for instance the haskellists. and that's only 'tip of iceberg' arguably.
16:37 verisimilitude Why ``glass bead''?
16:38 asciilifeform verisimilitude: via h. hesse's b00k, 'glass bead game'.
16:39 asciilifeform review by random fishwrap of same, for the innocent.
16:41 asciilifeform verisimilitude: in certain circles it is the proverbial name for the glue traps in which many intelligent folx languish today -- where uses 100% of yer brain, for sure, but produces nothing societally useful even in principle (often enuff -- quite opposite)
16:45 verisimilitude Oh, perhaps my Gopher hole and website resemble glass beads.
16:45 asciilifeform verisimilitude: it doesn't refer to any potential dead end, if that's what yer thinking. but to ~rewarded~ intellectual dead ends.
16:46 asciilifeform i.e. ones that people end up sinking their lives into for money, 'cred', etc.
16:47 verisimilitude Oh, well I needn't worry about profiting from them.
16:47 asciilifeform normally as part of climbing a social hierarchy.
16:47 asciilifeform primo example -- academia as it exists today.
16:47 verisimilitude We have climbed somewhat, asciilifeform.
16:48 verisimilitude People who read our websites tend to like and learn from them.
16:50 verisimilitude I wouldn't have found here had I not seen ``this cool website, loper-os''.
16:51 asciilifeform verisimilitude: normally i think of 'climbed hierarchy' in a narrower sense. ( this, specifically. )
16:51 snsabot Logged on 2021-01-28 15:26:42 asciilifeform: billymg: recall how in e.g. nigeria there are villages which live by finding/making little holes in petro pipeline, showin' up w/ buckets, resell
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
18:05 asciilifeform update re this : fella wrote back, seems genuinely puzzled. revealed current ip of crawler, then i dug through my noad's log and found '(banned)'. seems like his crawler now emits sumthing which sets off 'malleus'.
18:05 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-07 15:03:31 asciilifeform: wrote
18:07 asciilifeform billymg ^ et al.
18:08 billymg asciilifeform: ah, interesting
18:09 asciilifeform still a little strange, because i was under very distinct impression that many trb operators built theirs w/out malleus.
18:10 asciilifeform (subj was beaten to death in the old logs, but w/out it, an ~astonishing~ amt of junk traffic appears)
18:17 asciilifeform anyway, currently seems like a trb noad w/ 'malleus' disabled, would in fact get indexed by 'bitnodes' www. anyone who really wants his to get indexed there, is invited to try (if willing to put up w/ the cost.)
18:17 * asciilifeform bbl.
~ 52 minutes ~
19:10 billymg !w peers 82.79.58.192
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 2.132.145.76 3.16.37.222 5.9.13.37 5.9.155.73 13.210.184.202 15.164.181.146 15.207.108.70 23.251.64.80 24.182.52.147:8555 27.102.115.132
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 32.214.183.114 34.70.138.19 34.74.24.33 34.84.70.7 34.91.188.86 34.122.17.53 34.125.190.73 34.218.45.5 35.181.8.232 35.199.65.64
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 35.200.167.38 35.208.208.188 35.245.143.50 37.187.117.135 41.96.234.48 46.20.2.222 46.27.209.139 46.101.249.7 47.5.170.67 47.89.21.168
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 47.98.38.66 47.99.158.238 47.108.21.116 47.108.30.126 47.205.77.147 50.5.46.195 50.53.250.162 50.125.240.9 51.77.226.110 52.169.238.66
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 54.199.164.163 58.158.0.86 59.1.12.35 62.210.132.30 63.227.116.162 63.250.36.66 64.225.19.231 64.227.10.167 68.58.176.25 68.115.150.3
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 69.139.69.253 70.131.38.109 75.56.8.205 77.56.68.181 78.46.191.14 78.199.108.157 79.76.72.5 79.98.105.138 81.236.246.232 82.118.17.190
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 85.193.135.111 87.184.58.233 88.214.57.95 91.237.77.5 94.130.69.46 94.174.64.12 95.33.255.238 98.109.159.216 103.99.170.198 103.239.19.142
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 104.194.9.86 138.68.237.102 140.82.62.166 144.76.82.16 145.239.0.81 145.239.103.151 148.251.87.112 149.202.83.78 152.168.235.3 158.181.73.151:8555
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 159.65.132.97 162.144.35.84 163.158.202.112 165.227.145.138 167.71.11.57 176.9.28.155 176.9.104.69 176.196.98.66 185.210.224.102 188.191.103.67:6333
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 189.121.172.220 190.220.16.92 192.151.158.26 192.166.219.200 195.201.95.119 198.245.60.212 205.134.172.26 206.189.23.60 206.189.32.48 212.51.146.55
19:10 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : reported peers: 212.83.35.173 213.93.176.58 222.135.176.219
19:12 billymg !w peers 208.94.240.42
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 1.32.107.130 2.132.145.76 3.34.4.73 3.89.143.143 5.9.48.243 5.188.56.61 23.253.164.224 24.182.52.147:8555 31.46.231.174 34.89.57.152
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 34.241.176.144 35.208.208.188 35.212.168.144 35.241.116.147 43.225.62.107 45.63.4.71 47.91.246.186:8334 49.176.168.68 50.34.167.217 50.45.232.189
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 51.75.149.207 51.89.47.219 52.64.105.31 64.225.74.47 66.27.81.90:8555 66.198.209.243 68.56.203.112 68.58.176.25 68.183.6.64 69.114.1.70
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 71.231.145.228 74.129.229.9 77.166.83.167 79.76.72.5 79.248.104.219 80.218.199.202 82.73.208.95 82.79.58.192 84.115.141.72 85.212.186.167
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 85.214.185.51 85.230.75.30 87.97.114.233 87.103.14.238 87.123.131.50 88.99.209.230 91.181.52.200 92.98.201.80 94.23.248.168 94.172.162.192
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 94.199.173.120 95.33.255.238 95.216.243.138 95.217.41.235 95.217.194.209 96.48.243.148 96.255.161.23 97.93.59.56 101.108.11.131 106.250.188.106
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 108.200.255.200 109.154.60.29 109.236.91.236 110.54.204.195 113.67.179.132 113.116.177.17 113.218.232.232 114.95.53.8 116.202.227.86 143.202.160.10
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 144.76.2.87 148.251.110.54 151.106.34.139 151.248.220.127 158.69.227.12:28643 162.213.248.233 162.253.153.211 164.68.119.129 165.227.162.81 167.99.179.226
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 176.9.59.199 178.62.8.113:8555 185.224.80.108 186.50.162.74 188.27.173.192 188.117.245.195 192.151.158.26 203.132.94.196 207.180.225.253 209.204.20.46
19:12 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : reported peers: 211.43.8.168 212.129.56.216 213.89.176.153 213.109.238.156 217.7.247.90
19:12 billymg ^ two nodes i noticed with some mega peer lists
19:12 billymg trb* nodes
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