Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-12-03 | 2020-12-05 → ↓
01:53 verisimilitude Say, care to see something interesting?
01:54 verisimilitude I noticed this domain in mine HTTP referrers earlier, and wanted to see who was mentioning me.
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01:55 verisimilitude It was surprising, to learn someone, for some reason, decided to cover my website with Cloudflare filth so.
01:56 verisimilitude People who don't use TLS are constantly told that people could intercept the pages and inject JavaScript. Well, this is the first time I've ever seen JavaScript injected on my website, and it was done by Cloudflare. This is ironic, but plenty of people would be too stupid to see that, and think it's helpful instead, I suppose.
01:57 verisimilitude So, someone's making more work for me, since I need to decide whom to contact to have this removed.
02:06 adlai /away/ empty
02:07 adlai verisimilitude: it is impossible to prevent that kind of rehosting; a different approach is to include a brief text at a different place within each article that alert people to the possibility that they are reading a repackaging
02:09 adlai if it is in an identical place each time, it is trivial to remove; and the ultimate 'preventative cure', in this case, is to publish privately only to your trusted friends, which defeats the entire purpose of publication.
02:15 adlai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-26#1025478
02:15 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-26 14:12:01 verisimilitude: I try to avoid caring about what I can't control, trinque.
02:18 qonfluent Hello all, I've just gotten back in to x86 BIOS development from a long hiatus and would like some assistance with the Sage Smartprobe if anyone has a moment to humor me.
~ 33 minutes ~
02:52 verisimilitude I've no issue, adlai, when some Chinese takes mine articles to host in some fake newspaper, because I can't stop that. This is different, however, if only because it's with a US business, and as I get the impression this is some fool trying to be ``helpful''.
02:53 verisimilitude Hello, qonfluent. I enjoy low-level programming, but that's not my particular niche, so I can't help.
02:58 qonfluent Yeah, I figure it'll be a while before someone comes around who has one. I think this is probably the best place to find help with it, probably the highest concentration of smartprobe owners on the planet. My particular problem is that I can't write to memory. Register reads/writes and code stepping work fine, but writing to memory to test my code
02:58 qonfluent without using up flash write cycles isn't working. The function "monitor CarOnReset,c" is supposed to allow that if I'm not mistaken, but it's been far too long.
~ 23 minutes ~
03:22 qonfluent What type of low-level programming do you enjoy, if you don't mind?
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~ 4 hours 45 minutes ~
08:07 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024128 << the computing industry in China is dominated by people who attended university in America and who harbor pro-American sentiments.
08:07 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 13:32:13 asciilifeform: mats: it aint clear to me why 'chinese, national' cpu has to be made at enemy's tmsc.
08:08 gregorynyssa the "Chinese with American degrees" form their own social stratum and subculture within PRC society.
~ 47 minutes ~
08:55 asciilifeform qonfluent: i'm the author of the sage guide you appear to have read. could help, if you were to stay put for a bit !
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08:58 asciilifeform qonfluent: i personally have not used the cache-as-ram mode in sage, incidentally.
08:58 asciilifeform qonfluent: come back & plz post, in particular, what exactly the irons were that you were using. i may be able to replicate your setup.
09:00 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025826 << if the thing snarfs from your www blindly, rather than simply storing plagiarized text, and has obvious refer header -- you can always config your box to serve up goatse (or whatever else) to the viewers
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09:00 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 01:54:55 verisimilitude: I noticed this domain in mine HTTP referrers earlier, and wanted to see who was mentioning me.
09:02 thimbronion For the record, I too have a smartprobe - but don't have anything to use it on.
09:03 asciilifeform thimbronion: get e.g. apu1
09:03 asciilifeform thimbronion: and hm, how the hell didja end up w/ a probe, if had no reason..
09:03 thimbronion asciilifeform: I may try to find one - I unfortunately originally purchaced an apu2
09:04 asciilifeform thimbronion: orig. vendor still sells'em
09:08 * asciilifeform bbl
~ 21 minutes ~
09:29 gregorynyssa I was reading some of the old logs. this conversation was remarkable: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2015-06-24
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09:29 gregorynyssa maybe we can return
09:30 gregorynyssa to Gutenberg's era in the future, by discovering the next metal after Silicon.
09:30 gregorynyssa sorry, "silicon" should not be capitalized.
~ 55 minutes ~
10:26 thimbronion asciilifeform: I wanted to do some bios hacking, but it turned out I didn't have enough shiva hands.
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10:26 thimbronion asciilifeform: If you know a good home for it, I will happily donate it.
10:28 shinohai apu2 is good for trb node, neh?
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10:29 thimbronion shinohai: good enough I imagine. Can't remember much about it at this point.
~ 27 minutes ~
10:56 shinohai thimbronion: if you desire to sell it outright, will mention on my telegram channel, as a couple of folks might be interested to buy (if priced in BTC).
10:57 thimbronion shinohai: lemme dig it out of storage and we can proceed from there.
11:00 shinohai kk thanx.
~ 45 minutes ~
11:46 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025840 I enjoy using my machine code development tool of mine own design to write and document machine code, qonfluent.
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11:46 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 03:22:02 qonfluent: What type of low-level programming do you enjoy, if you don't mind?
11:47 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025847 The basic thought crossed my mind, yes.
11:47 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 09:00:40 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025826 << if the thing snarfs from your www blindly, rather than simply storing plagiarized text, and has obvious refer header -- you can always config your box to serve up goatse (or whatever else) to the viewers
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
12:56 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025859 << curious, what didja have in mind?
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12:56 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 10:26:35 thimbronion: asciilifeform: I wanted to do some bios hacking, but it turned out I didn't have enough shiva hands.
12:56 asciilifeform ( keep in mind that the boxen where probe worked, afaik all had published working builds of 'coreboot' )
12:57 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025861 << usable as general-purpose small x64 box. ( asciilifeform even has a node on one ) but dunwork w/ probe (see faq re why)
12:57 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 10:28:03 shinohai: apu2 is good for trb node, neh?
12:58 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025855 << ~which~ conversation ? you linked to a date w/ almost MB of log...
12:58 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 09:29:42 gregorynyssa: I was reading some of the old logs. this conversation was remarkable: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2015-06-24
12:58 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: observe that most log links are to specific line.
12:59 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
12:59 btcinfobot Current BTC price in USD: $18978.88
12:59 asciilifeform !w poll
12:59 watchglass Polling 16 nodes...
12:59 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659941
12:59 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.053s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659941
12:59 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.093s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659941
12:59 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659941 (Operator: asciilifeform)
12:59 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659522
12:59 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=659606 (Operator: whaack)
12:59 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.211s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659941
12:59 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.246s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659941
12:59 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.344s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391683 (Operator: jurov)
12:59 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.410s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659941
12:59 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.390s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659940
12:59 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : (tlapnet-38-54.cust.tlapnet.cz) Alive: (0.631s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659941
12:59 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
13:00 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
13:00 watchglass 71.114.46.209:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: asciilifeform)
13:00 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
13:05 asciilifeform !w probe 71.114.46.209 8333
13:05 watchglass 71.114.46.209:8333 : (pool-71-114-46-209.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.097s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=659940
~ 18 minutes ~
13:23 thimbronion http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025870 << I don't recall my thinking at the time (this was back in 2016), but I had put some effort into building an amd/tyan box with ecc memory, and wanted to take things a step further and install an opensource bios. Maybe I just thought it would be cool to debug the boot process...
13:23 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 12:56:11 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025859 << curious, what didja have in mind?
~ 22 minutes ~
13:46 asciilifeform thimbronion: you don't need a sageprobe simply to install coreboot etc. it is strictly for gnarly dev work w/ same, i.e. when you MUST have breakpoints, single-step, etc, in bios.
13:48 thimbronion asciilifeform: I am aware.
~ 1 hours 34 minutes ~
15:22 asciilifeform feedbot is drinking on the job, apparently ?
15:22 asciilifeform "Finite Field Arithmetic." Chapter 21A-Ter: Fix for a False Alarm in Ch.14; "Litmus" Errata. << cgra et al.
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~ 51 minutes ~
16:14 qonfluent Hello, I'm back. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025844
16:14 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 08:55:46 asciilifeform: qonfluent: i'm the author of the sage guide you appear to have read. could help, if you were to stay put for a bit !
16:15 qonfluent I'm using the Gizmo 1 board with the probe, connected via USB to my host system
16:21 qonfluent http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025866 Oh interesting, I was reading through this yesterday, you've got some really interesting ideas on here. The bit-level memory array based computer seems like a particularly interesting research topic.
16:21 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 11:46:06 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025840 I enjoy using my machine code development tool of mine own design to write and document machine code, qonfluent.
~ 1 hours 16 minutes ~
17:38 asciilifeform qonfluent: i assume you have already found the manual ?
17:38 asciilifeform covers 'car mode'. again will note, i have not used this mode personally.
17:39 qonfluent Yeah, that's what I've been using for reference for the various commands. I've also looked at the raw packets from the device, and when I do the write it seems to generate the correct responses.
17:39 asciilifeform afaik it will work on the gizmo-1 ('g-series') chipset.
17:40 asciilifeform qonfluent: make sure yer using gdb 7 or above if you have 'bitness' mode transitions in your process (and if you're going from 'car' to 16bit to 32 to 64... you are)
17:40 asciilifeform this is the #1 cause of barfola when using 'sage', historically
17:43 qonfluent I'm using version 9.2 of GDB, but all the code I'm currently running(just a cli followed by a jmp) is in real mode. I can't change the code at the moment since I don't want to change the actual firmware(I don't have a flasher, so if I break the actual BIOS I would have no way of restoring it)
17:43 asciilifeform qonfluent: iirc you want 'CarOnReset' ~only~ if you intend to fill up the cache and then run. otherwise (if merely stepping) you want instead 'HaltOnReset'.
17:44 asciilifeform qonfluent: buy a chinese spi eeprom flasher, the kind w/ crocodile clip. then can let go of the phobia of 'bricking'
17:45 asciilifeform ( if you have the spare change, i rec this box : it can not only reflash, but comes w/ a hose that has a mini pcb which can solder ~instead~ of the rom, or stuff into sockets, it ~emulates~ spi eeproms and 'reflashes' via usb in <1s
17:45 asciilifeform )
17:46 asciilifeform ( under no circumstances buy the 'em100' 'non-pro' -- there is no published driver proggy for that one afaik )
17:46 asciilifeform theoretically this is unnecessary on amd-g boards, can use 'sage' + 'car' -- but as qonfluent has found, it is finicky
17:47 qonfluent Yeah, I might end up doing that. I'd prefer for time reasons to be able to write the BIOS to the cache instead though, to get a quicker turn around time. The last time I started on this project, I recall being able to just write bytes to the reset vector area and the space below it to test new ideas and code
17:48 asciilifeform qonfluent: if aint a seekrit, what are you baking that needs to run before dram init ?
17:48 asciilifeform ( or for that matter, before exit from bios )
17:49 asciilifeform cuz asciilifeform , when fiddling w/ x64 os , simply hbreak *0x7c00 .
17:50 asciilifeform well, and :
17:50 asciilifeform restore rom.bin binary 0x7c00
17:50 asciilifeform set $rip=0x7c00
17:50 asciilifeform quit
17:50 asciilifeform ^ in a gdb script. and threw in makefile.
17:50 qonfluent My goal is to merge the BIOS/boot loader/OS into a single object. Direct from boot, it'll scan the various devices, set up drivers, and then drop in to an interpreter/REPL
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17:50 asciilifeform and this was enuff to osdev.
17:51 asciilifeform qonfluent: how much does this need custom replacement for ordinary 'coreboot' at the early stages ?
17:51 asciilifeform cuz afaik it doesn't (can work on abolishing the traditional msdos-compat. part of 'coreboot' later, it doesn't much change the os init coad )
17:53 qonfluent It probably doesn't strictly need to not be coreboot, I'd just prefer to write the initialization as well. Ideally I want to have every byte accounted for and have nothing I don't understand running on the system if that makes sense
17:54 asciilifeform qonfluent: good luck w/ that on any known x64 chipset. most of the heft of 'coreboot' in my builds is amd's boilerplate, but w/out which machine does not quite run
17:55 asciilifeform it may be possible to set up working irq's w/out the acpi garbage, however. but afaik 0 info publicly avail. re how.
17:56 asciilifeform bringing up amd cpu -- or even the realtek nic -- will certainly feature a good many kB of 'magic numbers no one knows meaning of' , sadly.
17:56 asciilifeform this is in fact largely why asciilifeform lost interest in x86 osdev.
17:56 asciilifeform whatever you come up with, in fact will not be meaningfully opensource. (and the chance that it won't boot on recent irons from shop, is ~100% )
17:57 asciilifeform i do not like to discourage folx, but this summarizes asciilifeform's experience with subj.
17:58 qonfluent Yeah, I'm not interested in this as much beyond a personal hobby. I'll likely put the source up somewhere, but unless someone else has the Gizmo specifically, it won't be useful.
17:58 asciilifeform right, but even as hobby, can end up demoralizing. qonfluent are you aware of 'movitz' ?
17:59 asciilifeform it was just about exactly this. but boots on 0 currently-avail. irons. for the reason i described.
17:59 snsabot Logged on 2020-12-04 17:50:49 qonfluent: My goal is to merge the BIOS/boot loader/OS into a single object. Direct from boot, it'll scan the various devices, set up drivers, and then drop in to an interpreter/REPL
17:59 qonfluent I feel as though I've heard of it before, but it has been a while
18:00 asciilifeform it is rather like writing in beach sand. the lack of anything resembling meaningful standardization in x64 irons, turns erry attempt at os into either a) bloat monstrosity a la linux kernel b) a curio, that readers in general cannot even boot, even with effort
18:00 asciilifeform take 'gizmo'. afaik neither v1 nor v2 is any longer available commercially.
18:01 asciilifeform i have both, but should they release their magic smoke, that's it
18:02 * asciilifeform had been hoarding 'apu1' boxes, but still only has enuff for ~self~ 'lifetime supply', but sadly not to hand out..
~ 1 hours ~
19:02 qonfluent Yeah, that's what I've run in to as well. I have an FPGA as well, but it's been even longer since I last worked in an HDL.
19:11 asciilifeform qonfluent: sadly, very similar biz model in fpga world.
19:11 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-20 18:09:04 asciilifeform: Aerthean: xilinx's biz model requires the periodic breaking of compat.
19:14 qonfluent Of course, probably to an even greater extent. It's sad, but unless I can get together the cash to spin out custom silicon it's about as close as I could get. Sucks that everything has to run through shitware top to bottom. While I might not be able to remove the stink, at least I can try to make a raft haha
19:15 * asciilifeform trying to make rafts since '07...
19:19 qonfluent Yeah, reading your site has been a big inspiration for that same feeling I had, the desire to escape the layers of garbage and get something sane to work from. And of course it's where I heard about the Gizmo. I'll have to dig through some old hard drives, I'm at least half sure I have the answer I'm looking for burried on one of them from my last
19:19 qonfluent round of this
19:27 asciilifeform qonfluent: see also this thread.
19:27 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-22 14:14:33 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: suppose we don't use any FPGA. suppose you directly owned a fabrication-facility and could perform your own runs on whim. how low does the process-width have to be, for it to be worth your time?
19:27 asciilifeform ( recurrent subj. in fact. )
19:32 qonfluent Exactly, it's a non-starter. Even the cheapest FPGA-to-silicon route is barely in reach for most companies, and comes with its own set of limitations.
19:33 asciilifeform qonfluent: actually, the ~only~ si i'd consider making, is a large homogeneous fpga . but afaik it is ~impossible to actually finance such a project , unless yer already rockefeller.
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