#asciilifeform | 2020-08-24

!w poll

11:00

Polling 12 nodes...

11:00

205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153 (Operator: asciilifeform)

11:00

205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.088s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.160s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153 (Operator: asciilifeform)

11:00

208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.167s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.220s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.221s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.328s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.335s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.630s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=645153

11:00

176.9.59.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.) (Operator: jurov)

~ 1 hours 40 minutes ~

12:40

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020298 << we need an APU1 with VGA.

12:40

Logged on 2020-08-24 11:00:23 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-23#1020297 << problem is, bake ~around what~.

~ 16 minutes ~

12:57

gregorynyssa, why do I need such a thing?

12:58

I could guess at why *you* think so, but why don't you say instead?

13:00

as for me, devices with specific, narrow function (see: fuckgoats) would be more appealing than being dragged into the hurrrr of implementing e.g. every cranny of the PCI protocol

~ 26 minutes ~

13:26

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020317 << unlike the FG device, APU1 is a general-purpose computer. I am interested in using that board without attaching it (through serial) to yet another computer.

13:26

Logged on 2020-08-24 12:58:27 trinque: I could guess at why *you* think so, but why don't you say instead?

13:30

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020314 << why didntcha ~ask~, lol. 'gizmosphere I' and 'II'.

13:30

Logged on 2020-08-24 12:40:58 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020298 << we need an APU1 with VGA.

13:31

~exactly same thing as apu, but w/ onboard vga. (likewise published schematics, same chipset, 'sage' connector, etc.)

13:32

gregorynyssa: you can also buy minipcie vga card and stuff it into apu1, even. at one time i did this for an industrial proj.

13:34

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020318 << i also like 'narrow' devices. (i.e. where you dun need to implement a bookcase-sized (pseudo)standard just to get 'hello world')

13:34

Logged on 2020-08-24 13:00:28 trinque: as for me, devices with specific, narrow function (see: fuckgoats) would be more appealing than being dragged into the hurrrr of implementing e.g. every cranny of the PCI protocol

13:39

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020321 << wow, thanks.

13:39

Logged on 2020-08-24 13:30:58 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020314 << why didntcha ~ask~, lol. 'gizmosphere I' and 'II'.

13:39

np

13:40

gregorynyssa: might take some work to get, 'gizmosphere' has been outta print for a coupla yrs. but i expect you could still find it

13:41

everything good within our industry gets discontinued.. even the content of technical books deteriorates with every new edition.

13:41

noshit

13:42

yesterday I read Patterns of Software by Gabriel. you recommended that book on your blog a long time ago.

13:43

aha, many yrs ago

13:44

the book has a few good observations, intermixed with large batches of filler and incoherent phrasing.

13:44

gregorynyssa: it did. i actually barfed when ~decade later, reread

13:45

but generally i dun write 'hey, that book i recced 10y ago? i reread, it's ~inedible' articles

13:47

Gabriel's most striking point IMO was that professional programmers back in 1996 did not study and memorize precedents, as civil and mechanical engineers must do. the situation is even worse nowadays. iconoclasm has been a one-way street.

13:47

oblig naggum re subj.

13:48

tbf the notion of 'study precedent' is an easier sell when the precedent aint garbage.

13:49

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020339 << funny that he mentions Dewey (if indirectly) since many problematic aspects of American-style education were popularized by that man.

13:49

Logged on 2020-08-24 13:47:35 asciilifeform: oblig naggum re subj.

13:50

gregorynyssa: melvil dewey (whose decimal), not john dewey (who helped fuck ameri-education)

13:50

asciilifeform: oh, good point.. not the same person.

13:50

afaik not even related.

13:52

the distinctly American belief that learning requires the re-tracing or re-enactment of an already learned man's sensory and emotional experiences has had a negative effect not only on programming (arguably it directly leads to bazaar-mentality) but on foreign-language instruction.

13:54

gregorynyssa: there are 2 quite distinct items both being marketed , for past 2 centuries or so, as 'education'. 1 being actual education, i.e. from 'educe', 'bring out'. the other -- animal training.

13:55

gregorynyssa: the method adopted to train armies of supposedly-needed mindless clerks, consists largely of the latter.

13:57

asciilifeform: really? in that case, are you for or against Prussian education? is that not all of the following: clerical, classical, scientific, militaristic?

13:58

i'm not universally 'for' or 'against' any of these. but defo 'for' truth-in-marketing.

13:59

fair enough. I was curious though, if I may ask, how did you become fluent in Russian as the child of immigrants? most second-generation Americans cannot retain their ethnic language.

14:00

simplest, while correct, answer, prolly is 'because wanted to'

14:02

no particular techniques?

14:02

active distaste for ameri-'culture' from early childhood, helps.

14:04

I am also second gen... unfortunately, I am the best speaker of my ethnic language among any fellow ethnic (born in America) that I have met. I have met one second gen. better than me, but he came to America at seven, wasn't born there.

14:08

gregorynyssa: outta curiosity, 2nd gen what ?

14:09

asciilifeform: Chinese. parents were 1980s governmental defectors.

14:09

a

14:09

neato

14:09

gregorynyssa: can read as well as speak ?

14:10

asciilifeform: of course.

14:10

very nifty.

14:11

*

asciilifeform has been studying, but slow.

14:11

you have been studying Chinese? nice to hear.

14:12

FYI the grammar of ancient Chinese is closer to Indo European languages than modern Chinese is. I am not convinced native speakers of modern Chinese hold any advantage over (eg.) you in studying ancient Chinese. possibly the reverse.

14:13

*

asciilifeform was working w/ the modern variant.

14:15

right.. but just in case you feel the desire to read the classics.

14:15

gregorynyssa: interesting, have any sources on discussing the difference?

14:16

*

trinque is firmly at the "wo shi meiguo ren" phase of his learning, and I doubt I'll ever actually be able to eat the character set

14:16

trinque: Chinese Language: Fact and Fantasy (1984) by John DeFrancis is a good place to start.

14:16

ty

14:17

Nationalism and Language Reform (1950) by John DeFrancis provides some necessary historical context.

14:17

what we call Chinese or Mandarin today (more properly, Putonghua) is a cobbled-together language which only became the official language in the 1920s.

14:19

gregorynyssa: iirc mats also '2nd gen' , and knows chinese, but the somewhat incompat. tw (i.e. pre-revolution) variant

14:20

heh, latter has been unhappened gregorynyssa

14:21

can't find in print or pdf

14:21

trinque: you may find this odd, but to asciilifeform char. set is the 'easy' piece (already had been eating jp for half decade) , in cn finding ~speech~ (specifically tonal system) to be the heavy part

14:22

asciilifeform: ahh nice to hear. hadn't known. though strictly speaking there is no pre-revolution Putonghua. the language was promulgated as a result of revolution (1911).

14:22

*

trinque sings (poorly) so the tonal part isn't so bad

14:22

gregorynyssa: was speaking of mao's 'simplifications'

14:23

trinque: neato. i've been informed by others also that some amt of musical ability does help

14:23

asciilifeform: you may be glad to know, only script (shape of glyphs) was simplified, not language (vocabulary, grammar).

14:23

right

14:23

DeFrancis may not have been right about everything, but he made a career out of clarifying the language versus script distinction to audiences.

14:25

gregorynyssa: I'd have no context for an opinion, but you'd say the simplified script had no political (e.g. orwellian) aim?

14:26

it's always easy to retroactively impose narrative, of course.

14:29

trinque: there was already simplified script during the dynasties. it was called grass script and formed the basis of later movements. moreover, the simplification or abandonment of Chinese runes was proposed by leading (non-Communist) scholars in the early 1900s. some even advocated making Esperanto the official language.

14:29

trinque: near as i can presently tell (tho would appreciate info from actually clueful folx) process was mainly practical, and similar 'ink stroke count reduction' took place in post-war jp also, and even in tw

14:30

exactly as asciilifeform said.

14:31

analogously, on asciilifeform's home world, most of what lenin did to simplify the ru script in fact was already pushed by scholars and even sometimes w/ approval of emperors -- tho unsuccessfully , for centuries.

14:32

makes sense, china's effectively opaque to me, other than having masterfully maneuvered itself into being the place where everything of note is made, with perhaps the most notable exception being TSMC (for now)

14:32

peter I for instance cut a # of redundant letters from ru cyrillic (at the time it included most of greek glyphs, which were obligatory for use in greek loan words)

14:33

asciilifeform: I noticed that from looking at scans of Ostrog Bible. the alphabet used to be huge, haha..

14:43

asciilifeform: btw. since you seem to be a fan of science-fiction, maybe The Three Body Problem by Liu Cixin would interest you.

14:44

it is perhaps the best science-fiction novel (or trilogy) which I have read. then again I am less familiar with the genre than you are.

14:46

re: scifi, this is what I think is best: http://superkuh.com/hardscifi.txt KSR's Mars Trilogy is >>> The Three Body Problem.

14:46

If you haven't read it yet you're in luck.

14:47

superkuh: did you read parts 2 and 3 of Three Body trilogy? just wondering, because part 1 was definitely the weakest.

14:47

I read them all.

14:48

superkuh: haven't heard of most of these authors. thanks for the recommendations.

14:49

in fact the only names I know are Sandford, Baxter, and Lem.

14:49

A solid start then. Even if Baxter's characters leave some to be desired.

14:49

Er, something.

14:51

I have read works by Silverberg, Dozois, Asimov, Bradbury, Dune series by Frank Herbert, Crichton (does he even count?)

14:52

Chrichton counts.

14:52

I haven't heard of Dozois.

14:52

oh, don't forget George RR Martin's pre-GoT science-fiction career.

15:02

I originally heard of Stanislav Lem from this: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3725

~ 54 minutes ~

15:56

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020394 << did read (ru transl.)

15:56

Logged on 2020-08-24 14:43:55 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: btw. since you seem to be a fan of science-fiction, maybe The Three Body Problem by Liu Cixin would interest you.

15:59

thimbronion

gregorynyssa: Vernor Vinge?

16:00

*

asciilifeform read all (afaik) of vinge. imho 'good thinker, terrible storyteller' rather like e.g. f. herbert. (in both cases, the tale 'loaded into head' was to asciilifeform moar fun than the actual process of eating it)

16:01

thimbronion

asciilifeform: yes - current me agrees. Ate up story lines as youngster.

~ 26 minutes ~

16:28

shinohai

In "What could possibly go wrong?" news: https://archive.is/QVDHa

~ 2 hours 7 minutes ~

18:35

feedbot

http://verisimilitudes.net/2020-08-24 << A Syndication of Verisimilitudes -- A Rebuttal of Some Nihilistic Sophistry

~ 1 hours 48 minutes ~

20:24