09:02 |
spyked |
http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-04#1003147 <-- done. sorry for the delay |
09:02 |
ossabot |
Logged on 2019-12-04 13:51:20 asciilifeform: spyked: can plz add jfw's www to the feedbot roster for #a ? ty |
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~ 3 hours 9 minutes ~ |
12:11 |
feedbot |
http://ossasepia.com/2019/12/06/cutting-through-the-tangles-notes-on-graphics-in-eulora-vii/ << Ossa Sepia -- Cutting through the Tangles (Notes on Graphics in Eulora, VII) |
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~ 2 hours 23 minutes ~ |
14:35 |
asciilifeform |
ty spyked |
14:39 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere trinque |
14:39 |
snsabot |
trinque last seen in #trinque on 2019-11-30 22:01:27: ah that was it, had the wrong guy. |
14:40 |
shinohai |
gm asciilifeform o/ |
14:41 |
asciilifeform |
ohey shinohai . |
14:42 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-28#1002844 <<< going to publish list of public knobs when I bring bot back online later today. |
14:42 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2019-11-28 00:05:25 asciilifeform: shinohai: does that bot have any public knobs yet ? |
14:42 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: neato. genesis soon ? |
14:43 |
shinohai |
Maybe, though I'm kind of mulling whether I want to publish all modules or not (since they are individual lisp scripts). |
14:44 |
shinohai |
Pretty sure no one here wants the telegram side of bot either. |
14:45 |
asciilifeform |
lol shinohai , what else is in there, aol messenger plugin ?! |
14:45 |
asciilifeform |
what possessed you to write such thing ? |
14:45 |
shinohai |
lol no aol plugin, telegram I did because that's the shitcoin cave these days. |
14:46 |
shinohai |
Lots of shitcoiners on discord too, but pita to write bots for their api + I don't really use it much. |
14:47 |
shinohai |
(observe https://github.com/stibear/cl-discord doesn't even work anymore) |
14:48 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: found this worth the effort ? what's there in that heathen pit that was interesting ? |
14:49 |
shinohai |
Well there are a few jobs-for-coin in heathen pit, mainly why I'm there. As said many times, I don't mind converting shitcoins to btc proper. |
14:50 |
asciilifeform |
a, i assumed this was done using goxes |
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14:50 |
shinohai |
Occasionally lulzy items, as altcoiners try to reinvent fiat BUT ON THE BLOCKCHAIN! |
14:52 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-06#1003281 <<< you do, but sometimes find otc trader, or the new thing is "DEX" which requires no kyc and such. |
14:52 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2019-12-06 14:50:17 asciilifeform: a, i assumed this was done using goxes |
14:52 |
asciilifeform |
the latter operates via heathen chats ? |
14:53 |
shinohai |
Nah most are some kind of weird where you use "platform token" or OP_CHECKLOCKTIME_VERIFY to make trades. |
14:53 |
asciilifeform |
i recall using some heathen 'shitc in, btc out' thing for squeezing juice from a forkcoin coupla yrs ago, but iirc that one vanished shortly after |
14:55 |
shinohai |
But as far as coin things go, jfw 's scheme wallet most interesting item I've seen in year+ or more. |
14:56 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: it's the most readable such item i've yet encountered |
14:56 |
asciilifeform |
even his orig. py prototype is quite readable. |
14:57 |
asciilifeform |
realized, when reading, that i'ma need extended-euclidean in ffa ( and not only for eccisms, but e.g. cramer-shoup ) |
14:57 |
shinohai |
Dunno why I have such a distaste for py things. When you released shiva, I was pretty excited about using it for rpc things, but I'm not well versed in tinyscheme yet. |
14:59 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: as you know, i've written kilometres of py. e.g. device diddles, phuctor frontend, wartime logger . |
14:59 |
asciilifeform |
it's 'a perl' tho, not fit for safety-critical systems, imho obvious why |
15:01 |
* |
asciilifeform orig. learned py to write plugins for 'ida', many yrs ago |
15:02 |
shinohai |
It has it's places I guess, and of course ran jhvh1 fine for years. But as you stated above, certainly not something I'd want to build Bitcoin wallet on. |
15:02 |
asciilifeform |
has same place as perl 20y ago. |
15:02 |
asciilifeform |
'duct tape.' |
15:04 |
shinohai |
bash, sed, and awk have always been my duct tape. Still use it to generate www pages xD |
15:06 |
asciilifeform |
if there were a full-featured scripting lang made by civilized folk, would use that, and throw py out. |
15:07 |
asciilifeform |
presently none exists tho. ( recall the convos re 'in what log bot?' ) |
15:09 |
shinohai |
Wasn't someone next door working an Adalisp or somesuch at one point? |
15:09 |
asciilifeform |
i admit, never was able to understand the php aficionados -- what's the use of having a second, even uglier python where cannot e.g. persistent processes , or quick runs from shell ? |
15:09 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: spyked iirc made attempt |
15:09 |
asciilifeform |
but it's larger proj than merely 'port tinyscheme to ada', need various knobs (sockets, db, at the very least) to be of practical use imho |
15:10 |
shinohai |
I share distaste for php, why I never liked/used turdpress |
15:11 |
shinohai |
I'm curious, what is asciilifeform 's favourite db ? |
15:11 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: i still have www w/ php (sewn from even older wp than mp's) but erry time i open the hood on it, is approx as pleasant as when fiddling old fortranisms |
15:11 |
shinohai |
lol |
15:11 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: for phuctor and logotron used 'postgres' . would not describe as 'favourite', simply was best horse i found in that glue factory. |
15:12 |
shinohai |
lone php script on my www atm is paste mechanism |
15:12 |
shinohai |
It's like 50 loc so can stomach it. |
15:14 |
asciilifeform |
for 'postgres' i at least know how to massage e.g. indices, so can be queried in not o(N). i expect this can be done for other sqltrons, but never found a persuasive reason to try. |
15:14 |
asciilifeform |
imho best db for 'serious' proggy is an actual purpose-made data structure, with mmap to disk. |
15:16 |
asciilifeform |
sqlism for db is rather similar to e.g. plasticine as construction material. great if you aren't certain what the shape is to be, but otherwise in erry way suboptimal. |
15:18 |
* |
shinohai ducks because using sqlite with bot .... |
15:18 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: the 1st phuctor stood on sqlite. |
15:18 |
asciilifeform |
eventually led to minute+ loads. |
15:19 |
asciilifeform |
i expect a log bot could run for 1000+ yrs on sqlite easily |
15:19 |
shinohai |
It's pretty neat if not constantly under load, but yeah can see phuctor exhausting it. |
15:20 |
asciilifeform |
iirc phf actually got away with having entire working set in ram, no db at all |
15:20 |
asciilifeform |
( he never published a lick of src, all i've to go on is his commentary in #t at various times ) |
15:21 |
shinohai |
phf's front end to logger was always my favorite, that's one item I wish he had published. (along with patch viewer) |
15:22 |
asciilifeform |
would've been great imho to have whole thing |
15:22 |
asciilifeform |
instead of the current perlisms. |
15:22 |
asciilifeform |
the patch viewer i'ma have to reimplement (w/ hopper for in-wot sigs) unless he somehow comes back to life |
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15:23 |
asciilifeform |
doesn't seem like anyone else is about to do it; and imho the 'oh hey i signed your proggy, nao where do i put this' situation is ridiculous |
15:24 |
asciilifeform |
there's no reason for valid in-wot sig to languish as a wp comment until manually copied to 'code shelf' or the like |
15:24 |
asciilifeform |
it's an eminently automatable thing |
15:24 |
shinohai |
I've been busy past few months trying to organise all the patches/seals for stuff I use in single place. So have, e.g. trb ffa |
15:24 |
diana_coman |
asciilifeform: fwiw I don't see that problem; what I sign I put on my code shelf where it belongs. |
15:25 |
diana_coman |
sure, can automate the process further. |
15:25 |
asciilifeform |
diana_coman: i'd rather prefer one where patch viewer and folx can upload sigs which then go where ought to |
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↖ |
15:26 |
diana_coman |
maybe; I don't really know why would I go about uploading my sig to someone else's site. |
15:26 |
asciilifeform |
diana_coman: would upload to own site, primarily. and viewer can sync from other folxs' . |
15:27 |
asciilifeform |
diana_coman: recall mp's crit of asciilifeform's 'i convert and upload jpg by hand', where he 'if i did this, would be 10x fewer photo tours, couldn't be arsed' |
15:28 |
diana_coman |
myeah, except here the bottleneck is people signing, not "too many sigs"; arguably at some point we get to too many sigs but I don't see it there yet. |
15:29 |
asciilifeform |
diana_coman: the other reason for wwwistic patch viewer, is so as to link to lines of proggy. presently i have an extremely ugly hack for this. |
15:29 |
asciilifeform |
( gnat's html gen thing doesn't in fact permit links to indiv. lines, but only (some!? why? nfi) subroutines; and of course entirely unaware of 'v' ) |
15:30 |
asciilifeform |
ideally, could link to any line in any vtronic proggy, and would be visible 'which patch', 'who signed' . |
15:30 |
asciilifeform |
phf went most of the way to this before ran outta juice. |
15:31 |
diana_coman |
yeah, the problem that is easier to solve (for bonus points it also allows for a very elegant solution, yay); true. |
15:31 |
* |
asciilifeform actually started work on this in 2015, shortly after published orig. vtron -- but shelved, as phf , much handier wwwtronicist, put one up 1st. but phf never gave src. |
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15:33 |
asciilifeform |
diana_coman: would also like to be able to ~search~ the 'v yggdrasil' (to crib diana_coman's terminology) |
15:34 |
diana_coman |
I'd like first to have yggradsil. |
15:34 |
asciilifeform |
( phf -- did not live long enuff to attempt this ) |
15:36 |
asciilifeform |
diana_coman: i.e. whole universe in one vtree ? iirc this was discussed even in '15. idea theoretically appealing, but i suspect in practice would break backs. picture if any time you published, had to 1st say 'pause' to 900 folx, or get 'orphaned'. |
15:36 |
asciilifeform |
1990s versionatrons (e.g. 'cvs' if you recall) actually worked like this. |
15:37 |
diana_coman |
asciilifeform: interconnected/linked does not mean at all pause to everyone; but there's no imminent danger of that so not much point worrying about it now. |
15:37 |
asciilifeform |
diana_coman: well, 'pause publication' rather than 'pause all work'. but afaik yes it would, work rather like btc chain. |
15:38 |
asciilifeform |
if you were to have per-project rather than global manifest , tho, then -- not. |
15:40 |
asciilifeform |
if folx willing to put up with having to regrind patch 3+ times -- as the folx who helped to fix e.g. asciilifeform's logger were -- then can do just about anyffin w/ v as-is. even 'whole universe' tree. |
15:42 |
* |
asciilifeform admires the pain tolerance of the folx who used, use, v. when i created it, half-expected that it'd collect dust, that folx would chicken out. |
15:43 |
* |
asciilifeform brb,tea |
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~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~ |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
unrelatedly: folx interested in smmism (smm was how boobytraps were often implemented prior to proper fritzchip) will find that it is detailed in amd opteron datashit; and that you can singlestep smm handler w/ 'sage' probe on irons where there is connector for same. |
17:18 |
snsabot |
(trilema) 2019-12-06 dorion_road: In my brush up of, now wtf again is SMM ? this morning, I referred to an old article by robert. r. collins on the topic. He's new to me, but CV looks impressive, anyone here come across him ? |
17:19 |
asciilifeform |
arguably not so interesting given as 'coreboot' traditionally has simply 'ret' in its smm handler; and afaik on all opterons where can connect 'sage', can emplace 'coreboot' in place of heathen bios. |
17:23 |
asciilifeform |
smm was the orig. 'ring -1' on x86, introduced by intel in 486. worx like ordinary nonmaskable interrupt, but registers saved to dedicated on-chip sram, rather than to where stack points. |
17:25 |
asciilifeform |
1990s lappies, e.g. 'toshiba libretto', that had bios-powered 'suspend to disk', usually implemented via smm. |
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17:27 |
asciilifeform |
whole point was to ~not~ interact with os (would often have e.g. battery handler in there, which had to run even if winblowz has crashed etc) |
17:40 |
* |
asciilifeform vaguely suspects that smmism was the 1st Officially nsa-ordered annex to pc arch. was ideal for undetectable boobytrap , i.e. entirely undetectable and unmodifiable from os, provided victim did not have a hardware debug probe (for intel boxes, was 100k$+ item that plugged under cpu, cable as thick as man's arm ) |
17:45 |
asciilifeform |
smm handler lived in ram segment that , once 'lock bit' in bios was set, could be neither read nor written, incl. from ring0 . |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
in the 'transistor-impoverished' era before they could put dedicated spy core in cpu proper -- was 'state of art' re snoopware. |
17:48 |
* |
asciilifeform at one time, decade+ ago, tried to implement an 'above os' debugger thing as a smm extension. but broke teeth, q of 'how to trigger' proved gnarly, there's no 'fire smm' button handily provided on any known mobo, the trigger is usually wired to southbridge directly |
17:49 |
asciilifeform |
2 basic ways to make smm extension on heathen bioses -- 1) patch the bios and reflash 2) 'option rom's on pci cards. raid controllers at one time used the 2nd variant. |
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~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~ |
19:01 |
feedbot |
http://qntra.net/2019/12/oracle-sues-us-department-of-labor-over-existence-of-administrative-courts/ << Qntra -- Oracle Sues US Department Of Labor Over Existence Of "Administrative Courts" |
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~ 3 hours 23 minutes ~ |
22:25 |
shinohai |
^Srry for join/partage, working on "translate" module and bot refused to rehash. |
22:25 |
shinohai |
./translate ru en С Днем рожденья! |
22:25 |
btcinfobot |
Happy Birthday! |