#trilema | 2020-03-07

Logged on 2020-01-08 11:19:47 BingoBoingo: Well, impeachmet is still "President can't overrule bureaucracy on Foreign Policy" coup attempt

05:15

"Sanders castigated the pro-development incumbent as an ally of prominent shopping center developer Antonio Pomerleau, while Paquette warned of ruin for Burlington if Sanders were elected. The Sanders campaign was bolstered by a wave of optimistic volunteers as well as by a series of endorsements from university professors, social welfare agencies, and the police union. The final result came as a shock to the local political establishmen

05:15

t when Sanders won by just ten votes" << ten years later, burlington, virginia was indeed a ruin, and the moron in question started offering his services on a countrywide basis.

05:17

s/virginia/vermont/

05:18

proof : In 2007, the city was named one of the top four "places to watch" in the United States by the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP). The ratings were based on what was perceived as ideal qualities for older residents. Criteria included the factors that make a community livable: new urbanism, smart growth, mixed-use development, and easy-living standards (also known as the place being a ruin so decrepit, not even the nigg

05:18

ers are interested in the carcass).

05:21

ACS, 2014 : median household income $37,078, per capita income for the city was $25,589, 16.9% of families and 30.7% of the population below the poverty line. needless to say this wasn't the case in the 70s.

05:24

"In 1981, he campaigned against the unpopular plans by Burlington developer Tony Pomerleau to convert the then-industrial waterfront property owned by the Central Vermont Railway into expensive condominiums, hotels, and offices. He ran under the slogan "Burlington is not for sale" and successfully supported a plan that redeveloped the waterfront area into a mixed-use district featuring housing, parks, and public spaces."

05:24

Such successful ratholes the socialists built, that per same ACS 2014, median value of single-family home = $131k, possibly last place on continental us where such wonder exists. only 5k of them, too, but if nobody wants...

05:27

but enough of the sandals.

~ 17 minutes ~

05:45

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958782 << aaand in other lulz, this still not deeded.

05:45

Logged on 2020-03-02 21:01:19 BingoBoingo: Fed it into deedbot before, but it seems deedbot deeding from chan may be requiring some manual intervention on trinque's side.

05:45

aite, this is by now turning into way too much of a joke.

~ 18 minutes ~

06:04

jfw, my intention is to use https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/address/1334rdsG6UuzEXUep6wU3kj87U2U8FPA4M/ through your http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/bitcoin-transactions-and-their-signing-1/?b=nears&e=completion#select to pay off http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958780 an' http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958773 ; do you want to schedule a time this coming week to work together on it, make the p

06:04

Logged on 2020-03-02 20:59:05 BingoBoingo: !!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HT44

06:04

Logged on 2020-03-02 17:35:02 mod6: mp_en_viaje: Hey there, Sir. Now that you're back to CR (glad you had a good trip), plz to process mpex withdrawls when you have an extra few minutes. Thanks in advance.

06:04

rocess a sort of useful publicity-manual thing for you ?

06:05

lobbes, ima be playing with sluts in the water this weekend ; but come say tuesday, we sit down and finally complete that project ?

~ 2 hours 34 minutes ~

08:39

feedbot

http://trilema.com/2020/thou-lector-or-the-manifest-of-modernity/ << Trilema -- Thou lector (or, the Manifest of Modernity),

~ 3 hours 57 minutes ~

12:36

lol, "of sluts and slaves and scandalous sexual predations"

12:37

yes, there is more : it drives assonances in the readership lol.

12:37

isn't that a great word ? assonance, an ass not even once!

12:39

this then explains the pageful of pingbacks

~ 33 minutes ~

13:12

lobbes

http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959069 << Tuesday sounds good to me (and enjoy!)

13:12

ericbot

Logged on 2020-03-07 11:12:40 mp_en_viaje: lobbes, ima be playing with sluts in the water this weekend ; but come say tuesday, we sit down and finally complete that project ?

13:13

cool

~ 53 minutes ~

14:06

diana_coman

aww, jfw missed a 5th s in there with that predations.

14:17

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959062 - I'm looking forward to this time next year when ~everyone has forgotten him and he's no longer brought up ~everytime I answer the question of where I'm from. can go back to mountains, marble, maple syrup and ben & jerry's.

14:17

Logged on 2020-03-07 06:44:26 mp_en_viaje: but enough of the sandals.

~ 30 minutes ~

14:47

diana_coman, no, it's final

14:47

s- s- -s

14:49

diana_coman

eh, unbalanced!

~ 15 minutes ~

15:04

mp_en_viaje a local financial advisor asked me about otc. says he's done some 3 figure btc deals for clients through regulated entities in singapore and switzerland and said he prefers to stay within fiat regulation.

15:04

I'm pretty inexperienced on the bank based side of otc and the couple otc desks I've talked to don't seem so much different than the website exchanges, e.g. use phone apps and/or gmail to facilitate the deals, aren't using gpg or the wot, etc.

15:04

do you have a recommendation for how I could counter this fiat mindedness when talking with those adapted to the fiat regulation ?

15:05

not without knowing what the regulations are or in general like that ?

15:06

i mean, there's an actual otc market, i traded on it, so have most people, it's still regulated as much as any market,

15:06

i suspect some term confusion might be at work here.

15:07

https://markets.cboe.com/europe/equities/market_statistics/otc_reporting/?mkt=trf << here's i suppose a primer. otc originally means "over the counter", it;'s a term of art in finance.

15:07

it was (mosty, ineptly) co-opted by the early bitcoin crowd to denote a sort of non-repudiable, no-third-party deal

15:07

but this isn't what most anyone using the term will expect it to mean, especially if they own a dog, let alone a car or a secretary or anything

15:09

I inferred that he wants to deal with entities with a license for a securities regulator.

15:09

from* ?

15:10

yes, from*

15:10

so how do you enter into it ?

15:13

i mean, the one informative analogy here is i suppose an insured plumber, or even better a union shop. if you're uninsured and want to do plumbing for some guy who needs plumbing done, either he drops the "i want an insured plumber" or you go get insured. same with a union shop : if you wanna work there, either you bust the union or else join the union.

15:14

I don't right now because I don't have any license. I could put effort into making relationship with licensed operations, but thought I'd ask you since the minimal exposure I have to those smelled more like incomptence.

15:15

so basically your idea is "talk him out of seeking '''regulated''' trades" ?

15:16

that was my instinct.

15:17

this is not going to fly, because it's not his money. he's approximately in the position of the hooker leaning on a parked mercedes, he doesn't get to say anything about where it goes. the northface / sketchers went on the cc, like the purchases of every other employee.

15:17

he doesn't get to "disengage hr" or "work from home" ; and if he tries, well, the leverage goes away. which being the whole point of his existence, is not negotiable.

15:19

moreover kinda the point of the whole system, you can't talk to the owners becayse "nobody knows who they are" because they "got together" and gave all their money up to a state "company" to "manage it" for them, which it does deliberately in this specific manner. you might as well ask the call center costa rican / indian / whatever to connect you to the company president's daughter's private cellphone.

15:21

exactly like the point with "informative radio progeramming" or w/e i was discussing with whaack on his blog : you can ask whatever, but in the end you're still talking to the call center. "and when you get there, you'll still be in a pontiac", as lefty put it. see ?

15:22

yeah, good to have it spelled out, thanks.

15:22

np

~ 44 minutes ~

16:06

actually come to think of it, the guy's daughter, epstein's 17yo whore, henry ford's wife etc are way the fuck a better in than the "financial advisor".

16:09

god knows you've a much better shot not to mention shorter trip to me by talking to hannah, than by trying to talk to whatever broker / expert / etc that bought me lehman.

16:10

i do propose this is a universally valid truth ; though i do not expect it's necessarily actionable. plenty of people care much more than i do.

~ 32 minutes ~

16:42

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959027 - gotcha - in principle at least!

16:42

Logged on 2020-03-06 18:28:59 mp_en_viaje: in any case i'm not proceeding from an utilitarian perspective, "this should exist because the user would benefit". the logic informing the concept is rather existential, "for such a thing as an operating system to meaningfully exist, the self-destruct must be in the operator's hands at all times"

16:50

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959036 - hmm, I thought Shannon proved you can't have that without the pad having at least as many bits as the message. If there's more possible FS states than passwords, then I can find one that can't be pulled out by any key - reminds me of Cantor's diagonalization

16:50

Logged on 2020-03-06 18:59:35 mp_en_viaje: in which same vein, "user password" in the shape of FS symmetrically encrypted such that withoyut password you can read any other OTP out of it that you wish, and so on.

16:53

jfw, sure, in the absolute sense it is true.

16:54

now consider your job is to "forensic analyze" a 2 TB file which was produced by taking the contents of a luzer hdd and xor'ing it with a PRNG working on the premise of hash ( hash (..... hash ( password)

16:55

sure, ~in theory~ you can do the job. in practice it'll be done just as soon as alf makes a business work.

16:57

I see.

16:57

after all, excel has no plug-in for it.

16:59

lolz. I'm sure some top codebreakers are working on that.

17:03

*

mp_en_viaje feels the need to point out that the exact scheme described is ~merely intended as an example of the principle~, not proposed to be actually used. since idiots are reading.

17:04

I got that re the hash(hash( at least.

17:05

ah, wasn't talking about you. but yeah

17:06

mp_en_viaje: how do you define totalitarian systems? (before I even try to add on the 'meaningful' part)

17:06

Logged on 2020-03-06 18:31:58 mp_en_viaje: they still exist for the same exact existential reasoning, which is very much the only way to have meaningful totalitarian systems in the first place.

17:09

jfw, a system is the cognitive equivalent of an algebra : a srt of elements and the operations defined on them. the problem of systems is the adequacy between themselves and reality.

17:09

to be totalitarian a system makes two explicit promises : that no objects existing can be found that don't map on objects included ; and that no valid questions can be formulated on those objects that the system fails to answer.

17:13

i suppose something like "complete" would be more intuitively appealing ; but a complete (or realised) system is one that merely satisfies the first criterion. things like the linnaeus classification have been complete since their introduction, for instance.

17:14

quite different from the googapedia definition indeed. would it be accurate to say then that science is a process of attempting to formulate a totalitarian system?

17:14

no, science is definitionally and deliberately incomplete, it refuses for instance ethics questions.

17:15

there's no properly speaking scientific reason to do or not do anything, specifically because science is not totalitarian.

17:15

(and the dear love of the pantsuit for non-totalitarian comes exactly from this -- it comes with a guarantee to not bruise his definitional laziness.)

17:16

this is a weakass approach, however. the problem with totalitarian systems isn't that they exist ; but that they're made by (and for) "vegetarian teetotalitarians", to quote ray campbell since he was on trilema recently. ie idiots.

17:17

much like the problem of medicine for 1-2000 years wasn't that it was practiced at all ; but that it was practiced by barbers. hence the hippocratic oath,

17:21

thanks, that's a good start to chew on.

17:21

o look, the internets don't know about it.

17:24

this guy (who was in spain, and who was in many other early soups back when all these players were still kids or unheard of) said it about hitler something like good gracious, he won't do, he's a vegetarian teetotalitarian. chesterton and the crowd picked it up.

17:25

and re classification and completeness : linneus' system is always complete, as per the usual stoic argument re death : just before a "new species is found" it is complete because well... and just after a new species is found, it is STILL just as complete, because by the very description as is required to show the new species it also necessarily completes itself.

17:29

ha! not familiar with the stoic argument, would it be something like "once you're dead you no longer have the problem of coming death"?

17:32

well, I suppose I should rather ask who to read there than just guessing.

17:33

for as long as you live, your death does not exist, and therefore is no concern of yours; once your death exists or whatever actualizes itself there's necessarily nobody any longer there to fret about it.

17:35

anyway, the problem with the textbook go-to examples of totalitarian systems, namely the various attempts at socialism in the 20th century, is that they're very weak examples of totalitarian systems and comparatively much stronger examples of closed systems. that's their salient feature, their closedness, universally premature, and by a rather mengele hand.

17:36

much better examples would be dadaism/absurdism/situationism or say existentialism if you're aware of those.

17:36

somewhat aware, seen some of their 'artistic' products at least

17:39

Moving on though: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959066 - I'm honored; was spinning a bit on "but what if it fucks up and zaps more coin than I've ever laid hands on??" but yeah, can't wait for another life, it's about time

17:39

Logged on 2020-03-07 07:21:22 mp_en_viaje: jfw, my intention is to use https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/address/1334rdsG6UuzEXUep6wU3kj87U2U8FPA4M/ through your http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/bitcoin-transactions-and-their-signing-1/?b=nears&e=completion#select to pay off http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958780 an' http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958773 ; do you want to schedule a time this coming week to work to

17:40

how's 15:00 UTC / 10am local on Thursday?

17:40

a whoops, CR on UTC-6, so that'd be my local.

17:42

Can I assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with gcc for the install?

17:49

sure.

17:53

mp_en_viaje: a few other questions come up as I prepare to genesis. 1: tabs vs spaces - my Scheme code is all spaces and I don't know how to reasonably do it otherwise; lisp has established indenting conventions that tend to line things up nicely but require 1-column granularity. Somehow, setting the tabstop to 1 doesn't seem like any kind of solution (and still not sure I even grasp the problem).

17:53

So the question is... I dunno, 'wut do?' Or, can we leave this one for now?

17:54

i dunno that it has to be nailed ad hoc here. there were preliminary discussions years ago that didn't resolve and haven't been revisited

17:55

2. I forget if I mentioned it in my spec but my code shuffles the order of transaction outputs, for obfuscation or general "why not". Is this reasoanble / acceptable?

17:55

but anyway, the problem never was whether single-character-x or single-character-y is to be your indentation scheme. the problem was when a unit of indentation is made up of n characters, such that 1st tabulation is implemented as three space characters, and 2nd as six.

17:56

jfw, i don't imagine it makes any difference, why would it ?

17:59

3. I had planned to make a single genesis of both online (python) and offline (Scheme) parts, as it seemed sensible to have it all in one place even if the intent is to use separately, but dorion brought up whether it'd be better to have two trees. I can't quite see that having any advantages, but how about you?

17:59

fin.

18:01

i dunno that i'd ever want to press both at the same time ; i also don't see that they have to have separate genesises necessarily. you can press one r the other by selecting the proper branch neh ?

18:03

hm, so the genesis would just be a placeholder manifest basically?

18:03

i have nfi, it's your code, it's your strategy. do you have shared parts ?

18:04

would work. Another thing coming to mind is if the two parts ended up rewritten to the same language, they could share some common details like base58. - as you say

18:05

yes well, i dunno how much of this "if in the future" is useful in context. i mean, maybe the aliens invade, gouge the eyes of anyone who makes filenames under 6 characters long.

18:06

i have nfi why exactly your offline thing is in scheme, as opposed to something more likely to be found on an offline system (which, definitionally, ain't gonna be importing software in its lifetime).

18:10

hhttp://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959124 << and to answer the meaningful part : consider the usg's "obscenity standard". it is perfectly an' epitomatically meaningless, i care naught that a buncha idle farmhands who can't talk for all the shit in their mouth "all agree". this inexpressible agreement is the definition of meaninglessness.

18:10

Logged on 2020-03-07 18:23:47 jfw: mp_en_viaje: how do you define totalitarian systems? (before I even try to add on the 'meaningful' part)

18:11

hm, I wonder how much isn't clear then. I wrote a Scheme interpreter, which is part of what I need to get published. This in turn requires only gcc.

18:12

ah ah. i momentarily forgot about that part.

18:13

What's an offline machine likely to have? gnat? python? And how to install the wallet at all if no new software?

18:13

a ok.

18:13

jfw, i wasn't talking about the instant case necessarily ; but in general. i expect most 2013-ish vintage itemsd have neither gnat nor python.

18:14

right. well me scheme is a good bit smaller than either and will bear my signature.

18:15

anyways, ima go for a joyride, bbl.

18:15

enjoy!

~ 21 minutes ~

18:37

feedbot

http://qntra.net/2020/03/lebanons-diab-announces-default-on-eurobond-debt/ << Qntra -- Lebanon's Diab Announces Default On Eurobond Debt

18:44

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959155 - I don't follow this; a \t\t coming out as three spaces followed by six??

18:44

Logged on 2020-03-07 19:12:56 mp_en_viaje: but anyway, the problem never was whether single-character-x or single-character-y is to be your indentation scheme. the problem was when a unit of indentation is made up of n characters, such that 1st tabulation is implemented as three space characters, and 2nd as six.

18:48

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959156 - I first took this as "it's fine either way" but maybe there's a question there too. Supposing the change output always came first; then, someone who knows this gets more information about how much you're sending where from looking at the transaction than if it came in a random position. And this thought would seem to extend to any process

18:48

that produced multiple outputs in a deterministic order.

18:48

Logged on 2020-03-07 19:13:26 mp_en_viaje: jfw, i don't imagine it makes any difference, why would it ?

18:58

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959073 - must be what that "Acest articol are apriori avantajul aliteralitatii alaturi" means

18:58

Logged on 2020-03-07 13:54:32 mp_en_viaje: yes, there is more : it drives assonances in the readership lol.

~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~

20:06

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959176 << some people do \s\s\s\s instead of \t.

20:06

Logged on 2020-03-07 20:01:36 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959155 - I don't follow this; a \t\t coming out as three spaces followed by six??

20:07

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959178 << "change" output is only defined by sheer coincidence, owing to the poor quality of the original client. there;s really no substantial difference between this so called change and the other outputs

20:07

Logged on 2020-03-07 20:05:24 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959156 - I first took this as "it's fine either way" but maybe there's a question there too. Supposing the change output always came first; then, someone who knows this gets more information about how much you're sending where from looking at the transaction than if it came in a random position. And this thought would seem to extend to any process

20:09

incidentally, anyone read the flying inn ?

20:15

http://deedbot.org/bundle-620710.txt

~ 28 minutes ~

20:43

http://deedbot.org/bundle-620713.txt

20:53

http://deedbot.org/bundle-620714.txt

~ 59 minutes ~

21:53

http://deedbot.org/bundle-620716.txt

~ 25 minutes ~

22:18

http://deedbot.org/bundle-620720.txt

22:26

http://deedbot.org/bundle-620721.txt

22:33

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959065 << the joke is that the bitcoin rpc interface was literally throwing an error about terminal width when being called by the deeding service.

22:33

Logged on 2020-03-07 07:02:54 mp_en_viaje: aite, this is by now turning into way too much of a joke.

22:34

what the everloving fuck it's doing caring about the state of a terminal is... who even would bother?

22:45

possibly has to do with environment variables, investigating that.

22:45

mp_en_viaje: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=q6MO

22:57