#trilema | 2020-03-04

maybe the bimbo, i'm old and lazy. but ty!

06:33

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958772 << in retrospect, i suspect maybe you don't take my meaning.

06:33

Logged on 2020-03-02 16:06:09 dorion: aok. we sent him the proposal today, so we'll soon find out.

06:34

suppose you were a latex salesman ; suppose we both and with these other fellows worked for a latex mfg co. suppose you were sent to a latex convention sometime. suppose there you met some fellows, did some business, had some drinks, maybe a local secretary up to your hotel room, whatever.

06:35

upon you return, you recount how it went. one of the things you say is "hey, do you know the one with the two nuns and the...", on the basis of a fellow latex salesman unknown to us having told you a dirty joke over drinks one night in the hotel lobby, after coming back from the business and before going up to the personal assistants in the rooms.

06:35

and i say "you know, from experience these never actually occured".

06:36

this is, perhaps, a weird thing to say ; then again i'm a weird sort of guy. to retort that "well... how would i go about verifying it" is pretty good repartee in the fancied context i just described.

06:38

back at reality, however, things stand a little differently : ustardians have, for some ungodly reason, painted themselves in such a corner of insecurity, anxiety and inferiority selfcomplexation, ALL their social banter consists of these lame as fuck self-anecdotes, like a bunch of neoprotestant farmers discussing nothing but their crops, and how well they've done ploughing. goldarn an' blue blazes!!!

06:39

you asking me how to verify an anecdote, the very substance of social banter, denotes you miss the point ; and it paints my observation in its true colors : i'm baiting, because i suspect you might.

06:39

see ?

~ 2 hours 42 minutes ~

09:21

aaand in "other questions nobody [was smart enough to have] asked of me" : "hey mp, why do you always cat file | awk ? isn't it awkward ? don't you know awk can load its own file directly by itself ?"

09:21

"try it on large files [with post-retard awk]."

09:21

Logged on 2020-02-19 21:23:42 mircea_popescu: "literate" veals, very capable of scribbling their own name in an alphabet of their choice (somehow nobody notices "using an alphabet of your own choice" is THE OPPOSITE OF SPELLING, and the exact definition of illiteracy -- all the fucking farmhands who can't read or write COULD scribble something down, anyone can screech random squgg;lies, with a shovel in a pile of dirt, with their own piss on driven snow, f

09:22

ahahaha check it out, nesting works correctly. WIN.

~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~

11:03

feedbot

http://ossasepia.com/2020/03/04/no-bones-in-thy-skeleton-and-no-theory-in-thy-research/ << Ossa Sepia -- No Bones in Thy Skeleton and No Theory in Thy Research

11:06

*

diana_coman clears up a pile of paper notes as the write-up is finally done.

11:06

yay wf

11:06

wd*

~ 17 minutes ~

11:24

feedbot

http://trilema.com/2020/i-suppose-we-shall-now-recount-the-story-of-the-czech-teenager/ << Trilema -- I suppose we shall now recount the story of the Czech teenager

~ 1 hours 28 minutes ~

12:53

mp_en_viaje hm, not sure I do see. you're baiting to see the degree to which I remain ustardian painted into the corner ? ftr, I for sure want to be aware.

12:53

in my mind, I talk to people to see who'd be a good fit. based on what they say, I decide if I want to continue talking to them. part of

12:53

how I judge what they say is I look them up, ask around, etc.

12:56

in this case in particular, a friend made the intro and brought me to the guys' office. later we went for drinks, watched a fight, talked about non-business things. a week or two passed and he came back wanting another meeting to discuss how we work with them.

12:57

dorion, but there's a difference between the jokes they tell and the offer sheets they carry. the first is illustrated in la grande belezza, "Se non prendo sul serio Proust, che ci prendo sul serio ?" "Ma niente. Niente non devi prendere sul serio, acceti il menu, naturalmente."

13:00

the other's illustrated in glengarry glenn ross, "I want to show you something. It might mean nothing to you...and it might not. I don't know. I don't know anymore. What is that? Florida. Glengarry Highlands. Florida. "Florida. Bullshit." And maybe that's true; and that's what I said: but look here: what is this? This is a piece of land. Listen to what I'm going to tell you now:"

13:01

it's not a matter of degree, it's a matter of "does the man think there's one thing, or does the man think there's two things ?"

13:01

there's two things.

13:07

that make any sense ?

13:10

mp_en_viaje discount what they say until they've executed on an offer ? act as if the check isn't going to cash until it does.

13:11

doesn't even have to be as harsh as all that. literature is not history nor history literature ; no ought yet flew from any is, in other words... you recall bacon ?

13:12

why should you be impolite, especially to prospects.

13:13

I didn't mean it as how I treat them, but what my expectations are.

13:15

right. one day i met a girl, we fucked, then she told me i am her third. this happens ; what do i care ? i didn't refrain from anything until her claim checked out (nor did i bother checking), what difference does it possibly make.

13:16

it is substantially the same as the male equivalent (which for some reason is formally opposite, "i leased 20k chicks in one year!!!". cool!

13:17

if i do check it out, and in a week return, "bitch, i know five guys that've done you" she'll ask me "so ?" and if i go "you lied" she'll leave because "you're a fucking idiot". she has a point, doesn't she.

13:18

yeah, let them talk, watch them do and don't let what they say really affect what you do.

13:18

"people shouldn't lie" "motherfucker, I WAS TELLING A STORY!!!" what, "nevertheless!!!" what is this, jeffersonian democracy ?

13:19

dorion, right.

13:20

trilema is chock full of great stories (that happen to be true, sure, but they're not great, nor are they greater for being true)

13:31

in local us amlbs stories, acquaintance than owns real estate brokerage/admin tells me he referred to his competition a guy he marked as a money launderer cause of new threats from local regulators. first bankers turn police, now real estate salesman, grocers next via accepting plastic only ?

13:32

he still got paid from it, but took the lower referral commission.

13:32

in any case, this is the fundamental defect of all utopian "thinking", of the reformation ("the testament i read, and the testament that is, are the same testament!!!") in general, and of pretty much all usian attempts, from "believe women" to "manifest destiny" or w/e. this hope to one thing.

13:33

dorion, sounds like a pretty dangerous course for a dying state, because the whole hope of extending survival is currently pinned on real estate monetization.

13:34

if they cock that one up, there's nothing left, last branch left to cut on the tree.

13:43

dangerous indeed, but seems like "do what us says" is entrenched as only option since, by agreement, will lose canal and maybe eat bombs again otherwise.

13:51

o, this was panama ? i thought it was florida

13:51

whatevs, panama's got nothing to lose, for lack of having got anything in the first place.

~ 19 minutes ~

14:11

there's a piece where ballas makes the point that "private" in the us just means state-owned-without-benefits (that he meanwhile carefully deleted from his own site) ; panama is exactly the same thing in state terms : another way of being a us state but without benefitting from fed printouts.

14:12

diana_coman

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-04#1958881 - with practical example of real estate in panama

14:12

Logged on 2020-03-04 14:48:29 dorion: in local us amlbs stories, acquaintance than owns real estate brokerage/admin tells me he referred to his competition a guy he marked as a money launderer cause of new threats from local regulators. first bankers turn police, now real estate salesman, grocers next via accepting plastic only ?

14:27

kinda ~all centroamerica really.

14:28

diana_coman

mp_en_viaje: it still reminds me of some Ro countryside.

14:28

outside of say muscel, never was that colorful

14:30

*

diana_coman jots down note to actually take pictures next time she goes back to Ro.

14:30

you know ?

14:33

diana_coman

well, the pics I really wish I had would cover the '80s rather, so dunno; but anyway, since can't take them in past, might as well take them when there next, what else to do.

14:37

ah

~ 3 hours 49 minutes ~

18:26

http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-04#1957893 - diana_coman observes I need more practice at figuring things out through discussion / asking than quietly on my own. Anyway, in my latest I've attempted to sort out my thoughts on the matter. There are some questions there on the clearsigning

18:26

proposal, but perhaps more simply asked: how is the message to be hashed+signed derived from the input with signatures in comments? And is that language-specific or what?

18:26

Logged on 2020-02-04 01:38:36 mircea_popescu: so given bvt's recent and indeed quite shiny work on a new v : is there any interest in actually attempting something like the new clearsign scheme ?

18:28

jfw, what do you mean, how

18:30

mp_en_viaje: well a signature can't sign itself, yes? so there is some transformation from clearsigned file to hash input.

18:30

moreover, how do bitcoin transactions figure into it ? are you talking about "the clearsigning proposal" as in, http://billymg.com/2020/01/mp-wp-patch-viewer-and-code-shelf/comment-page-1/#comment-75 ?

18:32

mp_en_viaje: I mighta tried to stuff too much into one article... my original goal was to explain how bitcoin transactions embed the signatures in the broader context of other ways it can be done.

18:32

and yes, that proposal

18:32

jfw, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log-search?q=oaep&chan=trilema ?

18:34

hm, I've heard of it but was under the impression that padding is a different thing.

18:35

well then your problem has just been mostly resolved. you have to read up on padding, ideally start with shoup's restatement of oaep

18:36

cool then, adding to the list.

18:37

now, that important part in there : are you asking how is the program to distinguish 4 through 9 from lines 11 through 14 ?

18:39

yes, and also what it does with the non-signature parts of 11-14: drop the lines altogether?

18:39

the ** etc.

18:40

in limine, it just looks for any file that ends with "*/ The Republic prevails. (2f20 5468 6520 5265 7075 626c 6963 2070 7265 7661 696c 732e 0a)", strips the first comment and splits the remainder by 2f2a 2053 6967 6e61 7475 7265 7320 666f 6c6c 6f77 203a 0a

18:41

the 1st fragment is the plaintext and the 2nd fragment is a line-array of signatures in the comment space hash format.

18:45

still working on decoding that, lol.

18:46

*

mp_en_viaje pats his encoder!

18:51

The idea is that the original can be fed to the compiler / vpatch presser / whatever without such preprocessing though right? Hence the comment characters? Because for one obvious thing the "*/ The Republic prevails." would not be valid C (not trying to be pedantic, rather wondering if this illuminates some misunderstanding.)

18:55

what is such preprocessing ?

18:56

and yes, my bad, dyslexia made me put the */ in the wrong spot, sorry.

18:56

The splitting of signatures from plaintext just described.

18:56

it was intended to be valid comment. i am annimated by the vague hope that there can be such a thing as "comment" in all languages

18:56

jfw, ah, yes.

18:57

perhaps there is in any language of interest, but won't be the same comment

18:57

anyway, an extra line with ** is missing there to make it all right

18:57

jfw, how do you mean ?

18:58

Different comment syntax in different languages. bash uses # while C has quite another meaning for that character for example.

19:00

myeah ;/

19:03

maybe ;; is the right choice ? o, no, of course not, C semanticized that too

19:03

-- works in ada and there alojne, and so the fuck on.

19:03

actually mysql too

19:04

honestly i think my first guess is also correct, /* */ is the widest

19:06

i guess we'll have to patch bash to recognize it, and that's that.

19:09

Um. And ada, sql, patch, lisp, python... ~everything not C-like ?

19:11

heh, apparently mysql does do /* */

19:12

mysql too.

19:12

a sorry lol.

19:13

jfw, what casn you do ? humanity requires a universal comment format, because there may not be computers before there's no literate code.

19:14

proposing to continue with "here, like this, there, like that" nonsense is much like proposing to continue with a formulation of arithmetic that has no 0 "because look at all these abacuses we made".

19:14

burn them.

19:17

well then, seems we're solving a bigger problem than I realized

19:17