Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-01-24 | 2020-01-26 → ↓
00:02 jfw http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955683 - this is not necessarily the case though, no? lock in correspondent addresses up front, or gpg keys to verify delivery instructions offline, or send address by courier, whatever. Airgap does not solve all problems, obviously. Shooting yourself in the foot is not the gunsmith's fault is it?
00:02 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-18 22:36:14 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955615 << so then your inputs to the process are haxed, and you go diligently dispatch btc to 1HaxFuckYou
00:11 jfw trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955688 - do I understand this claim as: if A assists B to use known-bad software X as opposed to known-worse software Y, while clearly stating the risk, A is then to blame for what harm may befall B?
00:11 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-18 22:37:41 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955617 << it solves only the pretense of being "not to blame" while still being very much to blame
00:12 jfw AFAIK even the ol' USA has not quite reached the point where you're still liable even if you put the "warning: hot coffee is hot" warning on the hot coffee
~ 15 minutes ~
00:28 jfw http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-19#1955775 - thanks, fixed. Indeed I recognized "borne" as correct once pointed out but then "wait, so what's the infinitive of born if it's not about the bearing?!"
00:28 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-19 02:04:30 mp_en_viaje: i mean uh. the word's the same, ye olde beran, but the participle / past tense of it is "borne" in all cases when you're not talking of actual birth.
~ 33 minutes ~
01:01 dorion fyi, I'm currently making a big photo blog of st. vincent, and on a deadline.
01:03 * dorion meant to pm that to jfw, but no matter.
01:14 trinque http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957149 << really curious over here what class needed to be introduced to do anything with privkeys
01:14 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 00:16:07 mod6: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-10-13#1724987
01:14 snsabot Logged on 2017-10-13 11:32:29 trinque: the introduction of new classes should be perma-banned
01:15 trinque and ftr my word is not law. if you were sane you'd have said "hey trinque, I am thinking of introducing this class" and arguing with me why it should be introduced.
01:15 trinque and I'd have said "mod6 what the fuck, there are already classes for keys" and then by god, we'd have babby's first culture brewing by lunch
01:19 trinque http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957193 << you miss my point, which is not "and therefore never do things"
01:19 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 20:13:36 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955683 - this is not necessarily the case though, no? lock in correspondent addresses up front, or gpg keys to verify delivery instructions offline, or send address by courier, whatever. Airgap does not solve all problems, obviously. Shooting yourself in the foot is not the gunsmith's fault is it?
01:20 trinque it's that "oh god linux is a fractal hellscape so I will airgap" solves some problems, and by way of cosmic fact not all
01:20 trinque and we with the OS project must solve more of the latter.
01:21 trinque you must hear me with the series pounding on the fact that "found object, labelled" is not enough.
01:22 jfw Agreed then.
01:22 trinque http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957195 << hm where's the line from mircea_popescu about the bum in the street screaming at you to get off HIS corner having more patriotism than "you've" ever had
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01:22 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 20:23:06 jfw: trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955688 - do I understand this claim as: if A assists B to use known-bad software X as opposed to known-worse software Y, while clearly stating the risk, A is then to blame for what harm may befall B?
01:23 trinque yes, you own it or you don't, and we don't get to put fig-leaves over our lack of ownership
01:23 trinque or we're back in socialist hell where ownership is "my cubicle"
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~
02:35 jfw I liked your description of ownership in that series too btw.
~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~
04:17 mircea_popescu trinque, i dunno, but it sounds just like something i said
04:18 mircea_popescu mod6, alright then
04:21 mircea_popescu http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957172 << too long for what lol, i'm still around. now, what are you asking me ?
04:21 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 18:39:46 dorion: mircea_popescu I hope I've not waited too long, but I'm ready to ask you about the face to face structure jfw and I started with for jwrd.
04:22 mircea_popescu http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957178 << i do not believe this is a sane worldview.
04:22 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 18:42:14 dorion: One middleground we've looked at pivoting to is using a server with tmux session sharing combined with a voice or video call. That will provide a "classroom" experience for both instructor and student from the comfort/convenience of the home office.
04:23 mircea_popescu meh, wrong click.
04:23 mircea_popescu http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957177 << i do not believe this is a sane worldview.
04:23 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 18:41:37 dorion: With that being said, physical presence limits us, both from clients we can work with and, as we grow, instructors we can onboard, e.g. spyked.
04:25 mircea_popescu physical presence also limits me wrt to the sluts i can fuck, both in regards to variety (for instance, the typical redditard chronical masturbator "has sex" with a much greater variety of women that never heard of him) and in regards to whatever the fuck i can catch from them. like say the common cold, the fewer actual women you physically meet, the less variety of colds you'll get. obviously the subway is RIGHT OUT!!!
04:26 mircea_popescu yet what sort of fucking is that, ~if she's not even there~ ?
04:26 mircea_popescu honestly, i believe the being together part is actually more important than the "teaching linux" or "sticking it in her" or "playing with stocks and wheels" and whatnot.
04:33 mircea_popescu yet look at it in the cold, blue light of logic : between these three categories, (men and women in an atomic soup), (men jacking off in front of the computer to images of women it presents), (women cavorting naked in man's livingroom) and these three categories, (noobs and experts in an atomic soup), (noobs wanking on reddit to images of experts it presents), (experts teaching noob computers in noob's livingroom) the rela
04:33 mircea_popescu tionship is direct!
04:33 mircea_popescu there's no single kink, it's all straight as rain.
04:34 mircea_popescu so boggle with me at the sheer insanity of unleashed abstraction : the moment you put it in human frame, the moment you tie it down to the sanity engine of the brain, the part that ~actually~ works of it, having been honed into working through endless millenia of practice, having its capacity to distinguish right from wrong and correct from dumb evolved into existence, suddenly it's all fucking self-obvious.
04:35 mircea_popescu but if you don't do that, "we don't know how to distinguish", "all abstractions are in principle just as good as any others" and so on.
04:37 mircea_popescu if instead of taking actual women to actual cages and stocks i joined the choir invisible, and "did" TWICE, whatever, ten thousand times "as many", except you know, "not physically" to use an euphemism... woudl you be impressed with how much i've progressed ? would i be ten thiousand times better if instead of being real i collapsed into wholly imaginaey ?
04:38 mircea_popescu so my proposal is rather to look at the matter not as much as you're in the business of TEACHING LINUX (while getting together), but in the business of GETTING TOGETHER (while for instance teaching linux, or gales, or bitcoin, or whatever is needed)
04:39 mircea_popescu build it around the relationship, their building, their lifecycle, their needs. do not build it around the imaginary "point", that isn't.
04:41 mircea_popescu look at the expansion angle : if ten days after you've sat down, dude says, "um... so my whole business is fucked by this data conversion problem", as they ALL FUCKING ARE, you must have lived under a rock somewhere if you believe "western world" "business" in its daily practice at the office is ANYTHING but trying to deal with data formats
04:41 mircea_popescu ask everyone, from obscure shitholistan small lawyers to lobbes or nicoleci or anyone you meet, they can tell you.
04:42 mircea_popescu what will you say ? "sorry, we gales only" ? as opposed to "yes dood, here, ten lines of awk. we'll go through what it does next we meet" ? hm ?
04:46 mircea_popescu http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957178 << not like it's forbidden or anything. i'm not saying you should marry all these people or anything like that. i think the way of looking at it is the central problem, once that's well anchored the specific ways you go about it in a circumstance or another's you know, a matter of circumstance.
04:46 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 18:42:14 dorion: One middleground we've looked at pivoting to is using a server with tmux session sharing combined with a voice or video call. That will provide a "classroom" experience for both instructor and student from the comfort/convenience of the home office.
04:47 mircea_popescu i don't think there's a mandatory time where you must irc, anymore than i think there's a mandatory time when eg people from #ossasepia must trilema or anything.
04:47 mircea_popescu obviously to a large degree you'll have to support your people, so you'll be working with their things to begin transitioning to sane things as a matter of necessity.
04:49 mircea_popescu the fundamental problems are that cli-iliteracy is a serious, life-changing disability. in terms of severity, blindness compares, deafness does not. obviously the afflicted are scarcely aware, but this doesn't mean they're not afflicted.
04:50 mircea_popescu whole "work-years", entire "departments" could readily be replaced by you know, half hour's worth of sed ; they aren't because us corporatelandia mostly exists as makework, to create the illusion for millions of ambitious derps that they're "doing something" lest they take to the streets and start throwing rocks. nevertheless, even if the cutting legs is systematically needed in socialism, to crate the sort of helpless vat
04:50 mircea_popescu -people it can thrive amongst, it's still personally disabling.
04:51 mircea_popescu so you know, as far as the life prospects, the future evolution, however you will name the sum-total potential of a person's existence, understanding how to command line is more important than meeting their father. it'll certaily do a lot for them, and it certainly CAN do way the fuck more for them.
04:52 mircea_popescu gales or no gales, the man who can't cat | grep is closer to a boy than any other man.
04:53 mircea_popescu http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957189 << quite so. using tools, ~thinking in ways which make their activity amenable to useful tools~ and so on.
04:53 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 19:54:12 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957173 - regarding the "because" there: there was perhaps a degree of teaching it because we'd built it, but I see it more the other way - a text-only Linux being a good choice for the job specifically because it doesn't have the GUI crutch and CLI illiteracy is one of the bigger barriers that otherwise intelligent people face to using serious
04:54 mircea_popescu the difference between the subsistence hunter and the instagram foodie isn't merely that the subsistence hunter doesn't have marble countertops or cuisinarts. a point readily verified by giving him some.
04:55 mircea_popescu http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957197 << indeed it has ; look into "strict liability" sometime
04:55 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 20:24:16 jfw: AFAIK even the ol' USA has not quite reached the point where you're still liable even if you put the "warning: hot coffee is hot" warning on the hot coffee
04:56 mircea_popescu oh for chrissakes.
05:01 mircea_popescu http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957195 << take the hospital analogy.
05:01 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 20:23:06 jfw: trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955688 - do I understand this claim as: if A assists B to use known-bad software X as opposed to known-worse software Y, while clearly stating the risk, A is then to blame for what harm may befall B?
05:02 mircea_popescu obviously, people are complicated enough such that at ANY point (meaning, in the times of hipocrates as today) there's going to be a list of very easily remedied dysfunctions and a list of very unremediable dysfiunctions.
05:03 mircea_popescu as time goes by, the first list grows (though the 2nd list doesn't shorten), and so while any cultivared man of means could be a doctor in 2000, only ~i and such can be de facto "general practitioners" today... wait, nothing's changed.
05:03 mircea_popescu but anyway, from the perspective of the patient, he goes in wanting to be fixed. he's done his part. some of these patients who've done their part will hear "ok, do this, don't do that" and some will hear "we don't know"
05:04 mircea_popescu this latter bit might even inquire "are you even a hospital then ?!", and the only proper answer's that... no, you aren't. you're a hospital for all those other people, but not for pancreatic cancer guy.
05:05 mircea_popescu now, this baseline truth is psychologically painful to doctors, so there's two classes : the kind who go into research, and the kind who put diplomas on their walls. these might even overlap, but the point remains : as far as the people you can't help are concerned, you're not helping. there's no way out of this, and word magic, labes etc won't fix it.
05:06 mircea_popescu you're to come up with some way to deal with the psychological tension on your own, and sure, whatever works for you'd better be good enough. however, what he's saying, and correctly, is that investment in supposed "identity" to resolve the matter's a way to make yourself dumber than you need to be.
05:08 mircea_popescu sure, the expectation on the part of the naive patient that he may be healed might have to be disabused now and again ; sure, the expectation on the part of the naive doctor, that he may practice what he knows without getting killed by chtulhu for no comprehensible reason at arbitrary times should hold as much as it possibly can.
05:08 mircea_popescu so you have some grounds to expect that indeed, "clearly labeling A" does soemthing. nevertheless, what it doesn't do is... solve the problem.
~ 4 hours 6 minutes ~
09:15 feedbot http://ave1.org/2020/failure-modes/ << ave1 -- Failure Modes
~ 3 hours 12 minutes ~
12:28 mircea_popescu o.O he lives!
12:33 mircea_popescu ave1, you know, uniquely among the lands tmsr actually has support systems for such problems. why not drop in say #trilema-hanbot try the working method, as opposed to trying to self-invent methadone by yourself alone ?
~ 22 minutes ~
12:55 hanbot_abroad ave1 do drop in, i'd love to see what your output is like if your time is spent in tune with organized priorities.
12:57 hanbot_abroad meanwhile i'm on a multi-day search for a trilema piece that clearly delineated the male mode as "being" and the female mode as "doing"...the uselessness of these key terms makes the search a drag without some other anchor. anyone remember this/remember something else about it?
12:57 mircea_popescu hanbot_abroad, did it use the example of kids pictures parents show ?
12:58 mircea_popescu dorion, why's your article start with an <em> ? is that intentional ?
12:59 mircea_popescu oh look at me, all the lines i enter are exactly the same length now.
13:00 mircea_popescu heres an idea, let's standardize all terminals to 70 colons therefore
~ 29 minutes ~
13:29 hanbot_abroad mircea_popescu apparently not ;/
~ 33 minutes ~
14:03 bvt hanbot_abroad: http://trilema.com/2018/the-lesbian-in-winter/ ?
14:12 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957237 - heh, this ties in with dorion's very start in #o for that matter, here: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-29#1007921
14:12 ossabot Logged on 2020-01-24 23:39:43 mircea_popescu: build it around the relationship, their building, their lifecycle, their needs. do not build it around the imaginary "point", that isn't.
14:12 ossabot (ossasepia) 2019-10-29 diana_coman: oh my, if I ever start "developing programmers" do me a favour and shoot me.
14:24 mircea_popescu diana_coman, conspiring to make me read #ossasepia :D
14:26 diana_coman at the same time upping the writing productions all around so there's *less* time to read it, too! :D
14:27 mircea_popescu sabotaje
14:30 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo, one of these days we're gonna have that talk about qntra already ; you around ?
14:40 diana_coman hanbot_abroad: I'd say more about some males not being and women doing but perhaps it might still be what you were looking for; specifically re being, I recall this comment
~ 33 minutes ~
15:14 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I'm here
15:15 mircea_popescu aite, so tell me
15:15 feedbot http://thetarpit.org/2020/botworks-ix << The Tar Pit -- Trilemabot and Feedbot V patches, the winter 2020 session
15:19 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well, where would you like me to start?
15:20 mircea_popescu ideally, let's revisit the plans wrt attracting writers and improving circulation, and their respective state of implementation.
15:24 BingoBoingo Well, next month I'm inclined to try to meet up will all the folks advertising local Bitcoin trades online. Letting them know what the Republic is, etc. The number advertising themselves here has grown as Argentina's shit itself out of being a place Venezuelans can do the remittance loop thing.
15:25 BingoBoingo It's been a while since I've done one of these sweeps, and I want to see what all the Latinos saying Bitcoin around me are doing, and if any might be able to do disciplined writing.
15:27 BingoBoingo The only walk in on irc has been shinohai, but so far he's not come with written pieces in hand or expressed interest in trying to establish a disciplined writing workflow. He's just expressed interest without having one of the two things I can say yes to. I can say yes to a piece or I can say yes to the desire to put together a workflow to make pieces. So far he isn't bringing either.
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15:30 BingoBoingo I'll hammer a more refined plan out of the paper notebook on the desk and put it on the blog. Should be ready by Wednesday evening.
~ 19 minutes ~
15:50 mircea_popescu but last month ?
15:52 mircea_popescu from where i'm sitting, the matter's not by wednesday evening. qntra originally started in the other five year plan, you know, not the one ending recently, the one before that. cazalla did a little outreach, which is part of how eg you ended up there, but then found his way back to the spawnfarms.
15:52 mircea_popescu since you've been running things, you've done a little that ever diminished, and well... i dunno, never looked at it much, either.
15:53 mircea_popescu what's next wednesday to do with all this, are we posing for a popeye cartoon or something ?
15:59 BingoBoingo I'll work on cranking up the outreach now that Pizarro's dead, buried, and done. Last month I made an effort to bring the 'bicycle guy' who'd been doing Pizarro liquidity into the WoT. We met up a few times to talk Bitcoin and Republic, and the evils of socialism. He kept expressing interest, but around the New Year he went silent. I suspect spawnweight and nagwife did him in.
16:00 BingoBoingo And I do have to improve my organization game.
16:02 BingoBoingo And my outreach game.
16:08 mircea_popescu dorion, sorry, left comment on wrong article. meanwhile added to the right one, mind deleting the spurious one ?
16:09 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo, well, yeah, that kinda was the conclusion once the original bitcoin isp went south, also.
16:09 mircea_popescu what am i gonna do meanwhile, you tell me ?
16:11 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I'll keep Qntra hosted, and I'll mark a hard pivot into outreach. I'll start by shooting cazalla an email now to see if he's alive or succumbed to "life's cheaper" in Asia.
16:11 mircea_popescu leaving aside what you say, which is as fine as any sayings ever were i'm sure, who you are (on the basis that is ever determined -- which is, WHAT YOU DO) is this dude who's lazily hitched his cart to what he perceives to be a moving beast of burden, and whatever, if we take it somewhere fine, and if not, i dunno... nobody could accuse you of being a lazy ineffectual fuck ?
16:12 mircea_popescu this procedure whereby you'll do whatever the fuck it is you feel like doing anyway, and expect the republic to feed and clothe you didn't work for alf, nor will it work for you. cuz it's pure hallucinatoria, it ain't how anything works
16:12 mircea_popescu you want that, go find a husband like normal women.
16:18 mircea_popescu this situation where qnta is BingoBoingo's "other blog" can't well continue, it's neither interesting nor useful.
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16:19 mircea_popescu this has nothing to do with "how well you write". i'm aware this is the typical gambit of the being an engineer, he's gonna -- don't you know -- be SO GOD DAMEND GOOD at being funny/caring/whatever the girl he ain't said hi to yet is gonna... nfi, rematerialize our of his dirty sheets and start doing the laundry one day.
16:20 mircea_popescu that's the fantasy is it ? something along those lines, that if one jacks of ~dedicatedly~ enough in solitude eventually the picture he's spunking all over will come to life ?
16:20 mircea_popescu i dun have time for the retarded pre-teen's world model. either make that thing live or get off the horse so i know i have yet another job unhandled rather than think it handled while it's being slowly but "defensibly" driven into the very ground.
16:23 BingoBoingo Give me one month to try to shed the alfisms, and make a hard outreach push to break the 'Qntra looks a whole like like BingoBoingo's other blog' appearance. I'll include a day by day in the weekly recaps, and if material improvement isn't showing in a month... I'll pledge to #ossasepia or #trilema-hanbot if they'll have me in their castles.
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16:24 mircea_popescu sure.
16:24 mircea_popescu now go do something with it.
16:24 BingoBoingo Thank you
16:25 mircea_popescu as per which foregoing coversation, the issuance of the long-overdue qntra quarterly is delayed yet again. what can i do, apologies to the interested parties.
~ 29 minutes ~
16:54 diana_coman hanbot_abroad: as it happens, while looking for something else entirely, I found this stated schematic.
~ 1 hours 50 minutes ~
18:45 feedbot http://qntra.net/2020/01/brexit-megxit-trump-trial-and-usg-casualties-in-iraq-a-roundup/ << Qntra -- Brexit, Megxit, Trump Trial, And USG Casualties In Iraq: A Roundup
~ 4 hours 34 minutes ~
23:20 hanbot_abroad bvt, diana_coman tyvm for the links. none are the specific itam i'm looking for, though all could be used to segue into the discussion of such, so once i (probably) peter out on the search i'll pick from there...and naturally the re-reading is pleasant. this isn't even a bad reading compass, throw an idea into chan, enter the reading linkmaze thusly! :D
23:28 hanbot_abroad BingoBoingo you're welcome to #t-h to your heart's content, and nothing stops you from using it for your goals before the month is out either, even if it's just to rant/wonder out loud.
23:34 hanbot_abroad " In the end, most of the changes I brainstormed regarding structure did not seem to benefit the content. " << inasmuch as you didn't decide to use those structural changes you contemplated, they did in fact benefit the content --you judged they weren't right, for whatever reason. they're negative space, but just as in a piece of art they're still *there*.
23:36 hanbot_abroad minor nitpick: "and as well" is redundant
23:40 hanbot_abroad the 'old' French word << the word isn't 'old' as in part of modern french, but just old. Old French is a language, like Old English; they're sufficiently different (in various aspects, from phonology to spelling to actual vocabulary) from their modern inheritors to warrant different classification. did they give you chaucer to read in school?
23:44 hanbot_abroad Wiktionary provides us that the etymology of the word comes from << "provides that" is a strange construction; generally a provision is a thing (hence provides us with) rather than a fact (provides us that). an obvious exception would be "provides us that thing which is xyz". also a minor point, just, you know...making a point of pointing them out lol.
23:45 hanbot_abroad oh good god i've been in the wrong channel the whole time.
23:45 hanbot_abroad at which point i widen the freaking channel name column lmao
23:45 hanbot_abroad sorry folks.
23:56 BingoBoingo hanbot_abroad: Thank you
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