Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-05-01 | 2016-05-03 → ↓
00:06 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
00:06 gribble Current Blocks: 409824 | Current Difficulty: 1.7865925777252728E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 411263 | Next Difficulty In: 1439 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 2 hours, 34 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
00:06 BingoBoingo $phuctor.stats
00:08 mircea_popescu lel
00:20 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor
00:20 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor_
00:21 mircea_popescu and alf was complaining...
00:21 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
00:21 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:21 mircea_popescu trinque btw, why is deedbot so slo ?
00:22 mircea_popescu $up ez_
00:22 deedbot ez_ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:25 mircea_popescu this is kinda lulzy.
00:26 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor
00:26 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
00:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/1DN0TTM ftr.
00:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lel
00:30 asciilifeform www still up tho.
00:31 mircea_popescu aha. prolly a setting in python neh ?
00:31 asciilifeform what's interesting is that this barf is ~disabled~
00:31 asciilifeform turns out setting - ignored.
00:31 mircea_popescu modern software.
00:31 asciilifeform burnitall(tm)(r)
00:31 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor_
00:31 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:32 asciilifeform turns out it's on hnews now.
00:32 asciilifeform hence the mega-torrent-of-flies
00:32 mircea_popescu i guess they showed us, huh.
00:32 asciilifeform 5-10/sec.
00:32 asciilifeform $up gabriel_laddel
00:32 mircea_popescu anyway. can you get it back to normalcy ?
00:32 deedbot gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
00:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is up!
00:33 mircea_popescu a cool
00:33 asciilifeform grunting at a MB/s or so, yes
00:33 mircea_popescu server should be ok up to 100/s sort of levels.
00:33 asciilifeform recall it is also trb.
00:33 mircea_popescu at least in teh-ory.
00:34 mircea_popescu yeah but trb really doesn't load worth the mention. especially if caught up.
00:34 asciilifeform or if helping other folk up
00:34 mircea_popescu lel
00:35 mircea_popescu don't you wonder why is this so scary btw ?
00:35 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor
00:35 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
00:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: waiwut
00:35 asciilifeform which
00:35 mircea_popescu irc!
00:35 asciilifeform ah yeah
00:35 asciilifeform first few thou didn't even bother clicking
00:35 mircea_popescu almost like it has terrorism scent all over it.
00:37 asciilifeform apparently!
00:37 BingoBoingo lol https://archive.is/NlKL3
00:38 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor_
00:38 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:38 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ahahahaha cosmicrayz again
00:38 BingoBoingo what else?
00:38 mircea_popescu teh schedule proceeds unabated!
00:39 mircea_popescu i suppose within a few hours it makes the front page (again) and then it gets replaced with an "official science" replacement...
00:39 asciilifeform with 'why japanese toilets did not catch on in america!'
↖
00:39 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor
00:39 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
00:40 asciilifeform i will be disappointed if the new replacement for the phuctor story is not jp-toilet related.
↖
00:40 gabriel_laddel lol. nice job with phuctor btw ascii. exciting times.
00:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally, according to amazon, trilema is biggest in japan.
00:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mega-unsurprise, iirc their entire economy consists of old men browsing pr0n
00:40 fromphuctor What does it mean whe the public exponent is not prime?
00:40 mircea_popescu what's pron got to do got to do got to do with it...
00:41 asciilifeform fromphuctor: http://trilema.com/2016/the-recent-phuctor-finds-explained << elaborated here
00:41 mircea_popescu fromphuctor do you know how rsa works ?
00:41 fromphuctor It's a public key encryption scheme, right?
00:41 mircea_popescu there's a difference between "what it is" and "how it works".
00:42 fromphuctor I'm reading the linked post now.
00:42 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel how's life treatin ya anyway.
00:43 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor_
00:43 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:43 gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: sometimes not really having a job is a bit of a chore.
00:44 mircea_popescu and sometimes having one is.
00:44 fromphuctor How are these prime numbers chosen? I understand it is very hard to find prime numbers.
00:44 mircea_popescu lol they'll run out of dashes.
00:44 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor__
00:44 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:44 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor__
00:44 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:44 gabriel_laddel Anyways, I'm a bit busy atm, have not been able to get the full masamune replication working, which is irritating. but I do have customers waiting on me, which is exciting.
00:44 mircea_popescu fromphuctor it's not that hard to find prime numbers. in general, rsa keys should be seeded from a good entropy source.
00:45 mircea_popescu (note that e is almost everywhere 65537, which is both prime and cheap.)
00:46 mircea_popescu in fact... 65537 makes SUCH a good e, not using it is triple-eyebrow raising.
00:46 fromphuctor Okay. So the size of the prime number does not matter that much for the security of the cipher as the entrophy source.
00:46 fromphuctor Wouldn't a bigger prime exponent be more difficult for an adversary to crack?
00:46 mircea_popescu the size of e is not particularly relevant ; it not being 65537 is very suspicious. it being non-prime is even more suspicious.
00:46 mircea_popescu nope.
00:48 fromphuctor Okay. So apparently a lot of people messed up their cryptography, and had non-prime exponents (or very small primes) for some weird reason.
00:48 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor_
00:48 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:48 mircea_popescu fromphuctor that is last week's news. this week's news is that ACTUAL KEYS were cracked.
00:48 asciilifeform the texas instruments key, for instance.
00:48 fromphuctor Oh. That's really bad, isn't it?
00:48 asciilifeform fromphuctor: for them.
00:48 mircea_popescu for whoever relied on that key, it is.
00:49 mircea_popescu $up GyrosGeier
00:49 deedbot GyrosGeier voiced for 30 minutes.
00:49 GyrosGeier hi
00:49 mircea_popescu hola.
00:49 GyrosGeier I'm trying to submit my key, but keep getting an error
00:49 fromphuctor Why were these keys so easy to crack? Were they due to faulty implementations of the cryptosystem?
00:49 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: what kind of error ?
00:49 GyrosGeier is there any restriction on what keys are accepted?
00:49 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: RSA only
00:49 mircea_popescu fromphuctor most likely subverted pgp implementation.
00:49 GyrosGeier Error: Was that really a GPG public key? Try again.
00:49 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: you probably have a DSA or ECDSA key.
00:49 mircea_popescu GyrosGeier dpaste what you're trying to stick in, maybe.
00:50 GyrosGeier RSA 4096, with three RSA 2048 subkeys
00:50 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: pastebin the key plz
00:50 fromphuctor So my SSH keys are probably not compromised, assuming my cryptography software wasn't broken by the government.
00:50 GyrosGeier http://paste.debian.net/653652/
00:50 fromphuctor Would that be a good assumption to make?
00:50 mircea_popescu fromphuctor you can export them and check yourself. then no need to assume anything.
00:51 GyrosGeier that is --export-options export-minimal --export --armor
00:51 fromphuctor How do I do that?
00:51 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: you have utf8 rubbish in that key
00:51 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: the box is not set up to handle this yet. sadly.
00:51 mircea_popescu i thought that was fixed last time ?!
00:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope, pythonism
00:51 mircea_popescu oh.
00:51 asciilifeform aha.
00:51 GyrosGeier ah, so I need to strip out those UIDs
00:51 mircea_popescu GyrosGeier you'll have to try again later, once this is caught up with.
00:51 fromphuctor My SSH keys came when I used the ssh-keygen command. How do I export them?
00:52 mircea_popescu or wipe the uids if you know how / can.
00:52 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: it will be handled in near future.
00:52 asciilifeform these are being piled up.
00:52 GyrosGeier do you actually need an UID in there?
00:52 mircea_popescu nope.
00:52 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: nope. optional.
00:52 GyrosGeier that makes filtering the packet stream easier
00:52 asciilifeform fromphuctor: it is nontrivial to convert ssh key to pgp key format.
00:52 mircea_popescu i guess we'll have to write a tool for this eventually, willy-nilly.
00:52 mircea_popescu people will just keep asking.
00:52 asciilifeform yeah.
00:52 asciilifeform apparently!
00:53 fromphuctor Apologies. I'm not that good at cryptography.
00:53 fromphuctor Thank you very much for your efforts and help. I sincerely appreciate it.
00:53 mircea_popescu fromphuctor either you go read up on http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-27#1458766 and do the conversion / publish the tool, or else wait for someone to do it.
00:54 fromphuctor Thank you. Have a good day.
00:55 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor
00:55 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
00:55 mircea_popescu lol check out submarine beds.
00:55 asciilifeform quite.
00:56 GyrosGeier hm
00:56 GyrosGeier seems to have worked
00:56 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: congrats
00:57 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor_
00:57 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
00:57 GyrosGeier we'll see if anything falls over with no uids and signatures :)
00:58 asciilifeform ;;later tell phf logz are down ?
00:58 gribble The operation succeeded.
00:58 mircea_popescu http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgfp/4D4F615E7EC1DDE8E664C3B10877BE0E1CDC1142 << replace with your own fp.
01:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform server is actually doing pretty good, considering.
01:00 GyrosGeier whoa
01:01 GyrosGeier lots of famous names in there
01:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i massaged the hell out of it
01:01 mircea_popescu nice job.
01:01 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: the caveat is that anyone can create a key with whatever name string in it.
01:01 GyrosGeier good point
01:01 asciilifeform e.g., osama@whitehouse.ru
01:02 mircea_popescu yeah, fingerprints more important than names per se. though there's some orgs that got clearly raped.
01:02 * GyrosGeier checks signatures
01:03 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: some of the keys (marked 'mirrored' under 'notes') were part of an organized flimflam campaign by an unknown (likely nsa) party exploiting the fact that old versions of pgp used the bottom 32 bits of a modulus as the fingerprint.
01:03 asciilifeform they took legit keys and turned the moduli into repeating lengths of the bottom 32bit of the old mod.
01:03 asciilifeform and uploaded to sks net.
01:03 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor
01:03 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
01:04 GyrosGeier indeed, but these shouldn't have signatures from me
01:04 asciilifeform GyrosGeier: those will have signatures but gpg will correctly reject them as invalid.
01:04 asciilifeform (if you find one where it does ~not~, please say!)
01:05 * asciilifeform bbl.
01:05 GyrosGeier is there some effort to notify people?
01:06 GyrosGeier I've found one from the same org as myself, with a key they use, which is signed by me, so that is clearly theirs
01:14 GyrosGeier nm, found it
01:14 * GyrosGeier will check back later, good night
01:25 gabriel_laddel $up r00s
01:25 deedbot gabriel_laddel may not $up r00s
01:28 gabriel_laddel Oh, and X.com was elon musk, not thiel. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-29#1459342
01:29 gabriel_laddel They merged with paypal eventually though, so yes, close.
01:36 punkman $up fromphuctor
01:36 deedbot punkman may not $up fromphuctor
01:51 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel right you are.
01:54 mircea_popescu $up r00s
01:54 deedbot r00s voiced for 30 minutes.
01:54 gabriel_laddel Is anyone here deep into neural nets / ml?
01:54 mircea_popescu GyrosGeier> is there some effort to notify people? << not really, feel free to notify whoever.
01:55 gabriel_laddel And if so, are you familiar with the optimization techniques "optimal braindamage" or "optimal brain surgery"?
01:55 punkman I sent a coupla mails after previous phuctoring, nobody wrote back
01:55 gabriel_laddel (circa 1995 ish)
01:56 mircea_popescu punkman same, iirc.
01:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4hcvvi/200_pgp_keys_and_counting_publicly_broken/ << a look, you're famous nao.
02:12 gabriel_laddel http://blakemasters.com/peter-thiels-cs183-startup
02:13 gabriel_laddel ^ "Notes Essays-Peter Thiel’s CS183: Startup-Stanford, Spring 2012"
02:14 gabriel_laddel Eventually these were compiled into the book Zero to One.
02:14 gabriel_laddel I enjoyed them ~2-3 years ago
~ 1 hours 32 minutes ~
03:47 punkman http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36168863
03:47 punkman At the meeting with the BBC, Mr Wright digitally signed messages using cryptographic keys created during the early days of Bitcoin's development. The keys are inextricably linked to blocks of bitcoins known to have been created or "mined" by Satoshi Nakamoto.
03:50 punkman http://www.drcraigwright.net/jean-paul-sartre-signing-significance/
03:51 punkman Be assured, just as you have worked, I have not been idle during these many years. Since those early days, after distancing myself from the public persona that was Satoshi, I have poured every measure of myself into research. I have been silent, but I have not been absent. I have been engaged with an exceptional group and look forward to sharing our remarkable work when they are ready.
03:51 punkman Satoshi is dead.
03:52 punkman altcoin incoming!!1
04:01 punkman "Mr Wright does not want to make public the proof for block 1, arguing that block 9 contains the only bitcoin address that is clearly linked to Mr Nakamoto (because he sent money to Hal Finney). Repeating the procedure for other blocks, he says, would not add more certainty. He also says he can’t send any bitcoin because they are now owned by a trust. "
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
05:18 adlai danielpbarron: thx
05:18 adlai jurov: correct, as always
05:19 adlai mod6: your hairshirt orgmode reimplementation
05:19 * adlai reminds everybody that the real reason he /does/n't keep secrets is because there were none, to begin with.
05:20 adlai either 60 "random" words have nothing to do with my life, or my basal ganglia are still swimming in lsd.
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
06:37 mircea_popescu $up roxfan
06:37 deedbot roxfan voiced for 30 minutes.
06:37 mircea_popescu $up JusticeRage
06:37 deedbot JusticeRage voiced for 30 minutes.
06:37 roxfan thx
06:38 mircea_popescu aha.
06:38 mircea_popescu what's a rox
06:38 roxfan i want to submit a key to phuctor but i have only raw N and E, not GPG format
06:38 roxfan any idea how to make one?
06:39 mircea_popescu so make it gpg format.
06:39 roxfan yes, how?
06:39 mircea_popescu it's rfc4880
06:40 mircea_popescu https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4880
06:40 mircea_popescu once you write the thing, post it somewhere also.
06:40 roxfan i was hoping there's an easier way...
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06:41 mircea_popescu $up dfgg
06:41 deedbot dfgg voiced for 30 minutes.
06:41 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor
06:41 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
06:41 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor_
06:41 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
06:41 mircea_popescu $up hexa-
06:41 deedbot hexa- voiced for 30 minutes.
06:41 mircea_popescu $up pabs3
06:41 deedbot pabs3 voiced for 30 minutes.
06:41 mircea_popescu $up piratsimon
06:41 deedbot piratsimon voiced for 30 minutes.
06:41 mircea_popescu $up spoonzy_
06:41 deedbot spoonzy_ voiced for 30 minutes.
06:41 mircea_popescu $up sbp
06:41 deedbot sbp voiced for 30 minutes.
06:41 mircea_popescu $up tribut
06:41 deedbot tribut voiced for 30 minutes.
06:42 mircea_popescu lettuce have a partay!
06:42 mircea_popescu phf did logbot die ?
06:43 mircea_popescu punkman> At the meeting with the BBC, Mr Wright digitally signed messages using cryptographic keys created during << i dun recall the derpy "sign with key" thing was ever regarded by tmsr.
06:43 mircea_popescu leaving aside this whole "at a meeting with hitler's propaganda minister, we saw it, swear!" angle.
06:44 mircea_popescu roxfan not that i know so far.
06:45 roxfan could the site be modified to accept raw numbers?
06:46 mircea_popescu sure. write the modification and submit it.
06:49 piratsimon Hi folks.
06:49 JusticeRage Thanks for giving me voice. Did you get my MP about the debug mode?
06:49 piratsimon tyvm for the v
06:50 piratsimon just came along because phuctor said so. ;)
06:50 piratsimon and now? ^^
06:51 pabs3 are you planning on revoking the keys you have factored?
06:53 mircea_popescu gola piratsimon
06:53 mircea_popescu pabs3 notrealy.
06:53 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor___
06:54 mircea_popescu JusticeRage did i get myself ?! hm ?
06:55 mircea_popescu piratsimon would you be so kind as to post the software you used to make that key ?
06:55 piratsimon that was really loooooooooong time ago.
06:55 mircea_popescu maybe we actually manage to figure out who did what to whom here, it's suspicious as all hell.
06:55 piratsimon guess i have to investigate that.
06:55 mircea_popescu can there be a numeric value for this "loooooooooong time ago." ?
06:56 piratsimon well at least i have to investigate the version. it was gpg for windows.
06:56 JusticeRage mircea_popescu : didn't understand your answer
06:56 mircea_popescu JusticeRage i didn't understand your question. people call me mp at times.
06:56 punkman https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/727078284345917441 heh
06:56 JusticeRage I just came to mention that the Phuctor Flask app is running in debug mode
06:56 mircea_popescu oh, still ?!
06:56 JusticeRage That's a security issue and you should probably disable that :)
06:57 JusticeRage At least it was the case a few hours ago
06:57 JusticeRage I stumbled upon a stacktrace by accident
06:58 piratsimon mircea, have u successfull attacked a private key you dont own and did you successfull decrypt some strong encrypted file wighout possess of the private key?
06:58 mircea_popescu JusticeRage asciilifeform was bitching about it ignoring his settings earlier. he'll get on it once back.
06:58 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor__
06:58 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
06:58 mircea_popescu piratsimon no ; but given what we know about these keys it's a trivial exercise.
06:59 mircea_popescu JusticeRage thanks for reporting.
06:59 JusticeRage No problem!
07:00 piratsimon thats quite interesting. interested in testing it? im gonna encrypt something and you try to decrypt not knowing the phrase nor possessing the private key? ;)
07:00 piratsimon you dont have to but im just curious. ;)
07:01 punkman piratsimon: post it on pastebin, maybe someone will give it a try
07:01 mircea_popescu punkman it was unavoidable. dead men walking.
07:01 mircea_popescu piratsimon sure, by all means post something.
07:03 piratsimon deal. ;) gimme some minutes. ;)
07:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you'll have to add verbiage explaining to the goodfolk that rsa keys specifically and uniquely are at issue ; somehow it's not obvious dsa/ecc/elgamaletc dun work.
07:04 mircea_popescu lmao this drcraigwright.net thingee.
07:07 mircea_popescu looks like it's done by the same "i fucking love science" ustard crew.
07:08 mircea_popescu "He was Vice President of CSCSS (Centre for Strategic Cyberspace and Security Science) with a focus on collaborating government bodies in securing cyber systems. Wright has trained government and corporate departments in SCADA Security, Cyber Warfare and Cyber Defence."
07:08 mircea_popescu pity not also marine.
07:08 mircea_popescu "He was Vice President of CSCSS (Centre for Strategic Cyberspace and Security Science) with a focus on collaborating government bodies in securing cyber systems. Wright has trained government and corporate departments in SCADA Security, Cyber Warfare and Cyber Defence."
07:08 mircea_popescu lulzy "that key is not available" failscript, also. MUCH SECURITY!
07:09 mircea_popescu hopefully it protected the aussie something or the other just as well!
07:10 mircea_popescu anyway. domain reg'd feb 16th, first post april 26th. teh boyz poured their sweat blood an' tears as the expression goes. too bad it won't work.
↖
07:10 mircea_popescu but, entertaining while it lasts.
07:13 mircea_popescu $up piratsimon
07:13 deedbot piratsimon voiced for 30 minutes.
07:13 piratsimon tyvm
07:13 piratsimon ;)
07:14 piratsimon challenge: http://pastebin.com/t4xqzfyx im really curious how long it does take. you may contact me via mail@simonlange.eu if you mind. ;)
07:15 mircea_popescu is there some sort of reward associated or just sportstmanship challenge ?
07:15 piratsimon just sportsmanship and curiosity. ;)
07:15 mircea_popescu alrighty. in the meanwhile, you understand how rsa works ?
07:15 piratsimon punkman suggested i should give an example via pastebin.
07:16 piratsimon so voilá there it is. :D
07:18 piratsimon yes i do. but i bet you are right now deeper in the topic than me. ;)
07:19 mircea_popescu aite.
07:20 piratsimon im just curious how long it does really take to break it. you know, theory is one thing, doin it another. :D
07:20 mircea_popescu generally, it takes someone to care enough.
07:24 shinohai Is it just me or are logs not synced?
07:24 shinohai and good morning #trilema
07:24 mircea_popescu piratsimon you used a different key. http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FC96CBFBF66B4E8996A0960C8B95EC5D1CD4B1A860719C7AEA00B3E06E41CE1B << these two are weak.
07:24 mircea_popescu you used gpg: public key is E5FF86FA
07:25 mircea_popescu it would appear you don't actually understand how rsa works ?
07:26 piratsimon well, my key is http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB09FBD06BDD503BE
07:27 mircea_popescu that's not in there either.
07:28 mircea_popescu $up tribut
07:28 deedbot tribut voiced for 30 minutes.
07:28 piratsimon thats why i was curious what key you did factorize? because - yes - it was my name and a really old email address of me. but actually not my key. not even my revoked one.
07:28 tribut piratsimon: did you read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609909 ?
07:28 tribut mircea_popescu: thanks
07:29 piratsimon no tribut, didnt, did not had that url util now. let me read it fast.
07:29 mircea_popescu piratsimon you could ask that then, neh ? the pile of keys being worked on come from a dump of sks servers.
07:30 piratsimon sry mircea. that was a classic misunderstanding. we both did assume something. ;)
07:30 mircea_popescu for my benefit, list said assumptions explicitly.
07:30 piratsimon ;)
07:32 piratsimon anyhow, wont bother you any longer. ;) have a nice day. we got finally sunshine. bb
07:33 piratsimon and my apologies for that itsybitsy misunderstanding. :D
07:34 mircea_popescu no big deal.
07:34 mircea_popescu you have to realise however that if eve is trying to eavesdrop on alice's communications to you,
07:35 mircea_popescu the most effectual approach is to put a broken key of yours up on sks, and wait for alice to mistake it for yours.
07:35 mircea_popescu particularly effective if you don't even know alice ; and no you wouldn't know you missed anything.
07:36 mircea_popescu the specific sort of broken keys listed there (ie, with mirrored low 32bit modulus) is obviously an' very much designed just for this purpose.
07:36 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor
07:36 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
07:36 mircea_popescu $up egorsmkv
07:36 deedbot egorsmkv voiced for 30 minutes.
07:36 egorsmkv hello, who administrate server?
07:36 egorsmkv http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/
07:36 mircea_popescu yes. next question ?
07:37 egorsmkv disable DEBUG mode on server
07:37 egorsmkv traceback https://gist.github.com/2d8091496aa7fbea1ccb4334df2fc115
07:38 mircea_popescu aha thanks. was already reported. asciilifeform will get to it once he's back.
07:39 egorsmkv service very good, thanks for it
07:40 mircea_popescu *thumbsup*
07:40 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor
07:40 deedbot fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
07:41 mircea_popescu egorsmkv in fairness most merit goes to bernstein, with his work we do in 20 minutes what used to take ~10 years on the first estimation.
07:51 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor__
07:51 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
07:52 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor____
07:52 deedbot fromphuctor____ voiced for 30 minutes.
07:52 mircea_popescu lol.
07:52 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor__
07:52 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
07:54 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor_____
07:54 deedbot fromphuctor_____ voiced for 30 minutes.
07:56 mircea_popescu $up _Blazed
07:56 deedbot _Blazed voiced for 30 minutes.
08:02 jurov https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11610101
08:02 jurov "FYI, @gavinandresen's commit access just got removed - Core team members are concerned that he may have been hacked."
08:06 jurov oops the ycombinator url is wrong, the excerpt is from https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/727078284345917441
08:20 danielpbarron apparently the signature on wright's thing was lifted from an old transaction
08:24 punkman danielpbarron: the redditards fail at reading, so thought the "worked example" in blogpost would be the secret signature presented to BBC et al
08:25 danielpbarron $up iceblox
08:25 deedbot iceblox voiced for 30 minutes.
08:26 danielpbarron $up Valfor
08:26 deedbot Valfor voiced for 30 minutes.
08:27 Valfor Cheers :)
08:27 Valfor oh, timed voice - interesting
08:27 Valfor :)
08:27 danielpbarron yes use it well, what brings you here?
08:28 Valfor I saw the list of broken GPG keys on the phuctor website
08:28 Valfor Saw the contact mention this irc chan
08:28 Valfor and so came here, as I was intrigued
08:28 iceblox Hello there, I found my key to be in the sadmods and followed the contact link :)
08:28 danielpbarron oo interesting. how did you make that key?
08:29 iceblox Using gpg --gen-key, but about 13 years ago
08:29 danielpbarron what version, on what operating system?
08:30 iceblox I have no idea what version, operating system was NetBSD 1.6 for sure
08:30 iceblox maybe 1.6.1
08:31 danielpbarron is your key actually broken or is it just a weird exponent?
08:31 iceblox public exponent is not prime
08:33 danielpbarron you mind sharing which key is yours?
08:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fixed barf
08:33 iceblox Oh, sure... BA8A75F1 simon@hitzemann.org
08:34 asciilifeform secret signature presented to BBC et al << l0l!!!!
08:34 asciilifeform s33333333333333333333kr1t pgp sig !
08:34 asciilifeform not for filthy plebes to see !
08:34 asciilifeform trust yer masterz.
08:34 asciilifeform brilliant.
08:34 * asciilifeform takes off hat.
08:36 asciilifeform iceblox: if you are sure that the key is yours, actually yours, (there is a number of keys on sks maliciously corrupted in a way that they appear to have the legit fingerprint when viewed in certain pgp clients)
08:36 asciilifeform iceblox: then try please to determine the client you used
08:36 asciilifeform best of all, if you can find a copy of the source.
08:37 jurov iceblox: try to export the pubkey from your local copy and add to phuctor
08:37 jurov to check for any corruption
08:38 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609226 << lulzy
08:38 gribble The operation succeeded.
08:39 iceblox okay, I submitted my export for being checked... Let me try to find out what gpg version I used back then. At least it should be possible
08:43 iceblox Ok, according to the archives it should have been GnuPG-1.2.3
↖
08:43 asciilifeform thanks iceblox
08:43 iceblox compiled with --enable-tiger and --with-static-rnd=auto
08:43 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://www.opennet.ru/opennews/art.shtml?num=44356 << moar lulz
↖ ↖
08:43 gribble The operation succeeded.
08:44 iceblox Interesting, my newly submitted pubkey has 3 fingerprints less, but the bad public exponents are still part of it
08:45 asciilifeform iceblox: newly-submitted key was generated with what ?
08:45 iceblox --export --armor
08:46 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor_
08:46 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
08:46 asciilifeform iceblox: yes, but what version of gpg ?
08:46 jurov eh, frompuctor's lingering along and never says anything
08:46 iceblox same, I only exported it from my machine instead of the one that was already on the website
08:47 asciilifeform iceblox: sks has the interesting 'feature' that it refuses to delete obsolete keys
08:52 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor__
08:52 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
08:54 asciilifeform $up egorsmkv
08:54 deedbot egorsmkv voiced for 30 minutes.
08:54 egorsmkv So, lol http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5490FA3620BD20F3AA05A1F4459275595754CB646DF7BCE8A3A96C6862ADF80E
08:54 egorsmkv https://cryptome.org/2015/11/satoshi-nakamoto-public-key.htm
08:56 jurov it's DSA, not RSA
08:57 asciilifeform welcome back a111 , we missed you so !
08:57 mircea_popescu for srs.
08:59 jurov piratsimon asks me for voice too
08:59 jurov $up piratsimon
08:59 deedbot jurov may not $up piratsimon
09:00 shinohai lame
09:00 asciilifeform $up piratsimon
09:00 mircea_popescu * asciilifeform takes off hat. << note that they were brewing it since two months ago, finally went live days after phuctor ; finally went on social media rampage hours after phuctor.
09:00 deedbot piratsimon voiced for 30 minutes.
09:00 mircea_popescu plenty of freshly minted coincidences at coincidence bank.
09:00 asciilifeform aha.
09:01 asciilifeform the pulled one from 'crypto' category at the coincidence library, aha.
09:02 asciilifeform https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4hcvvi/200_pgp_keys_and_counting_publicly_broken/d2paizt << l0l, poor fella actually stepped on one of the nsa mines
09:02 asciilifeform (last comment)
09:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-02#1461004 << the most useful thing would be an exact, verbatim copy of the software in question.
09:09 a111 Logged on 2016-05-02 12:43 iceblox: Ok, according to the archives it should have been GnuPG-1.2.3
09:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ftr the .ru write-up is about 100x better than the anglo versions. wikipedia almost entirely to blame.
↖
09:13 mircea_popescu ;;later tell egorsmkv consider registering your pgp key with deedbot ; i'll rate you and you'll beable to self-voice
09:13 gribble The operation succeeded.
09:14 mircea_popescu ФуНиКолай - очевидно же << ahahahaha
09:15 mircea_popescu bwhhahahaha these are epic. Лаврентий Августович Плюшкин, Герхард фон Пырохсповыдлом
09:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform re guy on reddit : he seems to be having the exact same key ?
↖
09:17 mircea_popescu apparently there's some sort of apple shenanigans at work here. you reclal, apple, the dedicated-to-privacy company that recently wouldn't do something or the other to some phone or somesuch, i forget.
09:20 mircea_popescu in other news of vague interest, i burned ~13GB on trilema today alone, of which at least half to be attributed to phuctor discussions (mostly not in english). it's been a while since any event actually visibly dented trilema stats. too lazy to check on phuctor, but i imagine it's headed into terrabytes, what with its endless single pages and whatnot.
09:24 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 565455 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'The Source <source@491362F1.info>; Lucian Solaris <LucianSolaris@gmail.com>; 7C492C5B491362F1 <491362F1@hackinfotech.org>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/561245D928FF0843F5F346549A73B46C6836E3B2BE309DC7F6CCAFCF7F17795C
09:28 mircea_popescu https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gmail/crI-mecCLe0 << windows user.
09:28 mircea_popescu almost all of these seem to be in some way connected to either winblows or crapple.
↖
09:42 mircea_popescu $up Twix
09:42 deedbot Twix voiced for 30 minutes.
09:42 Twix hi
09:42 Twix :>
09:45 mircea_popescu ello.
09:46 mircea_popescu http://blog.fefe.de/ << also pretty impressive. "proudly made without shit" line at the end ftw.
~ 35 minutes ~
10:21 jurov asciilifeform: phuctor rejects this, any idea why? http://dpaste.com/2SKZM9A.txt
10:24 jurov if it requires self-signature, then testing ssh keys is out
↖ ↖
10:25 mircea_popescu ah ssh keys aren't self-signed are they
10:26 jurov nope
10:26 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-02#1460826 << Many people tried to find an easier softer way, but they could not. With all the earnestness at their command...
10:26 a111 Logged on 2016-05-02 10:40 roxfan: i was hoping there's an easier way...
10:26 mircea_popescu jurov i see "gpg: armor header: Version: PGPy v0.4.0 gpg: packet(6) too short"
10:27 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo actually it's being built as we speak. jurov 's thing above is mere steps away from general purpose.
10:28 jurov huh i see .. tested only with pgpdump, not actually importing it
10:28 BingoBoingo Right, It's being done the actual way as opposed to the query shithub for an existing script way.
10:32 mircea_popescu actually there is no script. which in itself is glaringly scandalous.
10:32 mircea_popescu jurov possibly needs some padding. pgp keys are a festival of arbitrary and nonsensical fixed widths and whatnot.
10:33 jurov yea the py library i'm trying aptly reflects that
10:37 mircea_popescu $up hax404
10:38 deedbot hax404 voiced for 30 minutes.
10:39 mircea_popescu $up Echoplex
10:39 deedbot Echoplex voiced for 30 minutes.
10:49 mircea_popescu poor a111 getting hammered pretty good and solid.
10:52 BingoBoingo Related https://archive.is/GcpxP
10:54 deedbot [Trilema] Just call me Annah. - http://trilema.com/2016/just-call-me-annah/
10:57 mircea_popescu maybe they should make special fatty hydrogen engine.
10:57 mircea_popescu need oxygen tank anyway amirite.
10:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-02#1461059 << it does not !
10:59 a111 Logged on 2016-05-02 14:24 jurov: if it requires self-signature, then testing ssh keys is out
10:59 asciilifeform will happily eat anything containing 1 or more rsa modulus.
11:00 asciilifeform in rfc2440/4880 format.
11:01 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-02#1461041 << noshit.jpg
11:01 a111 Logged on 2016-05-02 13:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftr the .ru write-up is about 100x better than the anglo versions. wikipedia almost entirely to blame.
11:03 jurov mkay, will analyze the pubkey
11:06 asciilifeform $up nadav
11:06 deedbot nadav voiced for 30 minutes.
11:10 mircea_popescu $up schlaftier
11:10 deedbot schlaftier voiced for 30 minutes.
11:10 phf so odd, connection is otherwise stable, i have ssh open to it, but bot simply pinging out
11:10 mircea_popescu phf did it lose most od the day's log ?
11:10 phf no
11:11 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor_
11:11 deedbot fromphuctor_ voiced for 30 minutes.
11:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-02#1460660 << it turns out, it's yet another leah goodman story. kinda weaksauced.
11:11 a111 Logged on 2016-05-02 04:40 asciilifeform: i will be disappointed if the new replacement for the phuctor story is not jp-toilet related.
11:11 asciilifeform at least i was hoping for leah on a jp toilet
11:12 asciilifeform but we get simple rubbish.
11:12 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor__
11:12 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
11:12 phf well, it did, but i have a backup always, so unless there's a complete breakdown, logs are retained. i need to add an autoreconnector, but as is usually the case with that sort of things, i'm limited on time
11:12 mircea_popescu phf i looked, everything seems to be there
11:12 mircea_popescu every last valuable line of me going $up fromphuctor and all.
11:12 mircea_popescu $up Shredder121
11:12 asciilifeform lel
11:13 deedbot Shredder121 voiced for 30 minutes.
11:13 asciilifeform srsly why these folk never speak.
11:13 Shredder121 Sorry
11:13 Shredder121 I'm on mobile, so you got to me faster than I could /nick
11:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform one of the things the web has done is trained clickers.
11:15 mircea_popescu people click, it's a webpage, what.
11:15 asciilifeform evidently.
11:15 mircea_popescu see what's here, see what's there, live of www.tv
11:16 asciilifeform ugh
11:16 mircea_popescu not even anything wrong with it per se.
11:17 asciilifeform https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4hcvvi/200_pgp_keys_and_counting_publicly_broken << surprisingly uncensored yet.
11:17 asciilifeform though apparenly reddit has problems staying up
11:17 asciilifeform (reddit per se)
11:17 mircea_popescu lol that hanno boeck assclown got called out. curious what happens nao.
11:17 asciilifeform where
11:18 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-02#1461046 << seems like the schmuck sat down on one of the helpfully prepared stakes - wrote 'apple' a bug report, which was duly read at ft meade on account of his using 'apple' key as appears on phuctor
11:18 a111 Logged on 2016-05-02 13:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re guy on reddit : he seems to be having the exact same key ?
11:18 asciilifeform $up sbp_
11:18 deedbot sbp_ voiced for 30 minutes.
11:20 mircea_popescu https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11611785
11:20 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-02#1461051 << the ~100+ wholly shamatronic keys could've been made anywhere
11:20 a111 Logged on 2016-05-02 13:28 mircea_popescu: almost all of these seem to be in some way connected to either winblows or crapple.
11:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah i meant the other ones. the "naively broken" ones,
11:21 mircea_popescu which seem mostly to be a case of "take p, q random numbers, skip on testing for primality."
11:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my conclusion 1y ago was that the enemy is pretty good at factoring wholly-random-int rsamods.
11:22 asciilifeform (it isn't so hard.)
11:23 mircea_popescu yeah.
11:23 mircea_popescu if you think about it : for any random number, the odds of being divisible by 3 are 1 in 3. and by 7, 1 in 7. and the sum of this converges etc.
11:23 Apocalyptic 17:19 <+mircea_popescu> which seem mostly to be a case of "take p, q random numbers, skip on testing for primality." // having a fully factored modulus would help to confirm this
11:23 asciilifeform my other hypothesis is that this was 'warmup' and current diddled pgptrons use somewhat more subtle magick
11:24 asciilifeform Apocalyptic: the presence of small primes more or less clinches it
11:24 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic i recall you were running miller-raqbin last year ?
11:24 mircea_popescu if you care to hack a py script, i think it could be bolted onto phuctor.
11:25 Apocalyptic asciilifeform: presence of small primes would happen either way, however if your modulus N has k bits and the biggest prime factor has k/2 bits, you could easily conclude that it wasn't generated the way mircea proposes
11:25 mircea_popescu well within some sort of probability.
11:25 Apocalyptic mircea_popescu: I factored a 32-bit mirrored one yeah, currently i'm trying to factor a non-mirrored small one
11:25 asciilifeform Apocalyptic: so far very little is known for certain. but the presence of multiple tiny primes is heavily suggestive of random int.
11:25 mircea_popescu cool deal.
11:26 Apocalyptic asciilifeform: indeed
11:26 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic you got a blog or anything ? where you gonna post ?
11:26 Apocalyptic i'm gonna post in-channel I guess, same as earlier
11:26 asciilifeform i've been considering adding a user-contributed factors box
11:26 deedbot [Qntra] Hoaxtoshi Coninues Swindling Media - http://qntra.net/2016/05/hoaxtoshi-coninues-swindling-media/
↖
11:26 asciilifeform (it'd be trivial)
11:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform more like, you know, run m-r on the cracked moduli
11:27 mircea_popescu also trivial. not like it doesn't have the juice.
11:27 mircea_popescu and the results could be fed into the hopper in turn.
11:27 asciilifeform after the current wave of derp cools, i'll fiddle with it
11:27 mircea_popescu yeh.
11:28 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: sorry no japanese toilets for you, just Hoaxtoshi. Drove to get cigarettes, Nooyz made it to radio.
11:28 asciilifeform leloshi
11:28 mircea_popescu lol!
11:28 mircea_popescu wtf, radio ? seriously ?
11:28 asciilifeform it is strange that same sc4mz0r was recycled
11:28 asciilifeform they could not turn up another ?
11:28 mircea_popescu schmucks. "oh i work for big deal pr firm" "suck my cock".
11:28 asciilifeform i'vethunk there'd be no shortage of them
11:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think a little bit of the whole spam strategy is at work. they WANT the smart folks to lose interest early.
11:29 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> wtf, radio ? seriously ? << Yes in the generic CBS radio feed KMOX runs on the hour
11:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that makes a certain amount of sense.
11:29 asciilifeform >>> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1468 <<< obligatory
11:30 davout for some reason this hoaxtoshi stuff seems very interesting to journos
11:30 mircea_popescu in other non-news, omfg all the famished camhos posing as online dommes. they are the masters of your wallet dontchakno.
11:30 mircea_popescu derpiest shit ever.
11:31 mircea_popescu davout finally something about bitcoin with no maffs in it. they've been waiting patiently a long long time.
11:31 BingoBoingo <davout> for some reason this hoaxtoshi stuff seems very interesting to journos << Heartbleed and the bash vulnerability made radio
11:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aaand 500
11:32 asciilifeform waiwut
11:32 asciilifeform 500 of wat
11:32 mircea_popescu 500 of error code.
11:32 davout BingoBoingo: your radio seems cooler than mine!
11:33 BingoBoingo davout: If the weather's just right you can prolly pick up KMOX's 10,000 watts... maybe
11:33 BingoBoingo http://oglaf.com/twostars/
11:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is up
11:33 davout moon bounce is a thing apparently
11:34 asciilifeform just strained
11:34 mircea_popescu kk
11:34 mircea_popescu how much bw did it burn this month ? got a stat anywhere ?
11:35 asciilifeform not readily
11:36 asciilifeform nic sent >1TB since last power cycle
11:36 asciilifeform (112 days ago.)
11:36 mircea_popescu aha.
11:36 asciilifeform but this includes, e.g., trb.
11:36 mircea_popescu not horrible.
11:36 asciilifeform there is nothing heavy on the site
11:37 mircea_popescu the braindamage page is like 1mb
11:37 asciilifeform ~5.
11:37 asciilifeform i prolly oughta have massaged it further, e.g., pages
11:37 mircea_popescu btw, ever had a chance to turn off whatever dev environment ? ppls were pointing out.
11:37 asciilifeform aha.
11:37 asciilifeform it had to be reset correctly so the fix took.
11:37 asciilifeform but done.
11:38 asciilifeform i am still disappointed with the shitstack.
11:38 mircea_popescu honestly, nonpaged is better. guy gets whole thing in one go, prolly results in less overall bw as less futzing and wastage.
11:38 asciilifeform yeah greppable
11:38 asciilifeform sorta why i did it this way to begin with.
11:38 mircea_popescu curl it once an be done
11:38 asciilifeform aha.
11:38 mircea_popescu ya. right calL.
11:38 asciilifeform speaking of...
11:38 asciilifeform curl -s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/sadmods | grep -c -i " 1 is not prime"
11:39 asciilifeform 8
11:39 asciilifeform ^^^ ! ^^^
11:39 mircea_popescu one exponent is best exponent.
11:39 asciilifeform the journawhores dun seem to notice that one.
11:40 asciilifeform lel i'm surrounded by a number of folx here at slaveshit reading reddit etc
11:42 mircea_popescu are you workplace famous now ?
11:43 asciilifeform hopefullynot
11:44 asciilifeform though funnily enough i mentioned phuctor when i was hired there, as a 'litmus test'
11:44 asciilifeform (of them, that is)
11:44 asciilifeform sorta like throwing a rabbit out of airlock to see if atmosphere on new planet is breathable
11:47 mircea_popescu $up tophunctor____
11:47 deedbot tophunctor____ voiced for 30 minutes.
11:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/4hhd9p/psa_you_may_want_to_check_your_pgp_keys_and_keys/d2pplmj << lelz
11:54 asciilifeform 'move along citizens!'
11:55 mircea_popescu lol reddit one behind the curve ?
11:56 asciilifeform paid muppet, prolly
11:56 asciilifeform (this'd be a dupe thread)
11:58 mircea_popescu "pgp was broken ayear ago i recall defcon talk"... it's kinda shocking in the despairing sense of the term, exactly what sort of monster a specialised society creates.
11:58 mircea_popescu "i know how to make widgets. i also think the loch ness monster found the cvadrature of the ellipsis."
11:58 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/05/hoaxtoshi-coninues-swindling-media/#comment-56080
11:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i dun think there is 'thought' involved in the usual sense
11:59 asciilifeform this here'd be orwell's 'duckspeak'.
11:59 BingoBoingo !up xorrbit
11:59 gribble Error: "up" is not a valid command.
12:00 BingoBoingo $up xorrbit
12:00 deedbot xorrbit voiced for 30 minutes.
12:01 Apocalyptic asciilifeform: re earlier thread I was considering either random p and q then multiplied, or whole modulus is random. Obviously the latter could not occur since the software couldn't compute phi(N), hence doing anything usefull with it.
12:01 Apocalyptic so yeah no k/2-bit prime to be expected in modulus
12:02 asciilifeform Apocalyptic: there are reasons why someone might generate wholly unusable modulus and post to sks.
12:02 Apocalyptic There might be, the resulting thing is a degree of magnitude less usable though
12:03 asciilifeform there appear to be at least two types of phucked moduli
12:03 Apocalyptic including the 32-bit mirrored ones ?
12:03 asciilifeform and it stands to reason that they were born in separate places for distinct reasons.
12:03 asciilifeform aha.
12:03 Apocalyptic so far I also see the two categories
12:03 asciilifeform the 32-bit mirrored ones are a fairly transparent ploy
12:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lel, yet another firm wasted hours of my time only to barf when told that i refuse to 'top secret'
12:08 mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2016/05/hoaxtoshi-coninues-swindling-media/#comment-56083 for great lulztice.
12:09 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic i just interpreted your argument to mean k/4
12:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ftr, there are VERY MANY people refusing to top secret for very many good reasons.
12:10 mircea_popescu one is that they pay fails to compensate the risks (trivially verified : find insurer who will indemnify you for any and all responsabilities in exchange of fraction of extra salary)
12:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fact is, i'm approaching ~unemployable
12:11 Apocalyptic mircea_popescu: why k/4 ? my argument was if the whole modulus is random, then we can expect a k/2-bit prime factor, if modulus is random p times random q, then we can't unless p or q is actually prime (assuming p and q same size), which is quite unlikely if truly random
12:11 mircea_popescu as with all failing empires in history a) the better commentary happens among people who do not have the empire's language as native language ; b) the hassle of obtaining official seal of whatever exceeds the benefits.
12:12 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic p and q randomly generated can still produce a prime factor somewhere in there, perhaps as large as 1/4 of the length of the key.
12:12 mircea_popescu ie even with p, q obtained straight from /urandom, you can still see a 1024 bit prime or somesuch
12:13 mircea_popescu i don't recall right off how you calc the probability, but it is indeed tiny.
12:13 Apocalyptic yeah but why the 4 specifically ? for all you know you can have a k/3 prime as well
12:13 mircea_popescu hey, whadda ya want from me, when trying to rescue statements that are trivially broken i use heuristics!
12:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: prime number theorm
12:13 Apocalyptic the important thing is k/2 prime enables to distinguish between the 2, a k/4 prime doesn't, as it would occur in both cases
12:14 asciilifeform hadamard
12:14 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic i guess so.
12:20 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2016/05/hoaxtoshi-coninues-swindling-media/#comment-56085
12:22 mircea_popescu $up cyco
12:22 deedbot cyco voiced for 30 minutes.
12:22 cyco hey
12:22 cyco one of my old keys got phuctored
12:22 asciilifeform cyco: which ?
12:23 cyco http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/41CE4AD52DCCD849DEFF2F8EF2F59A5563DEF92184DA02E60743A44F38C9BDE4
12:23 asciilifeform cyco: and before getting alarmed, download the key and compare to yours
12:23 cyco ok i'll do that
12:23 asciilifeform it may be a spurious version, someone has been making them for years.
12:23 asciilifeform and this key appears to be one of them.
12:32 mircea_popescu $up cyco1
12:32 deedbot cyco1 voiced for 30 minutes.
12:33 cyco1 thanks :)
12:33 cyco1 it'll take some time to find the key in my backups
12:33 cyco1 i'll come back when i've found it
12:33 mircea_popescu consider also registering your current key with deedbot
12:34 mircea_popescu i'll rate you and you'll beable to self voice in the future
~ 30 minutes ~
13:04 BingoBoingo https://archive.is/b5odj https://archive.is/BpZyj https://archive.is/do0Pg And bonus lulz from GAW pumpers still around https://archive.is/lrzQs
13:04 mircea_popescu are they influencing and community-whatever-ing ?
13:05 BingoBoingo of course
13:07 mircea_popescu $up steffen
13:07 mircea_popescu good for them then.
13:07 deedbot steffen voiced for 30 minutes.
13:12 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
13:12 gribble Current Blocks: 409899 | Current Difficulty: 1.7865925777252728E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 411263 | Next Difficulty In: 1364 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 8 hours, 13 minutes, and 9 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
13:13 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
13:13 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 441.0, vol: 5354.45823665 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 443.2, vol: 4879.32364 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 441.37, vol: 26801.5056244 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 443.169345, vol: 20804.50170000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 443.915, vol: 1075.02228224 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 446.4716, vol: 69.1292423 | Volume-weighted last average: 442.174813814
13:19 BingoBoingo $up hdbuck
13:19 deedbot hdbuck voiced for 30 minutes.
13:19 BingoBoingo In other news the US Navy is now allowing neck tattoos
13:21 mircea_popescu "don't ink, don't yell" ?
13:25 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 83780493 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'James Bottomley <jejb@kernel.org>; James Bottomley <JBottomley@Odin.com>; James Bottomley <JBottomley@Parallels.com>; James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/23B2173C2FF1A9C43007D526720EA2B9EC1CB4AC21503429ACFBA1DA022517B3
13:26 mircea_popescu always nice to see kernel.org in there.
13:27 mircea_popescu i guess im gonna message him
13:30 steffen interesting stuff, added my public key to check it out ;)
13:31 mircea_popescu cool.
~ 25 minutes ~
13:56 phf so i did a simple exercise, since there were some claims that "none of the keys import", of grabbing phuctored data. the 223 moduli represent 156 keys, importing which results in 133 "no valid user IDs" and 23 successful imports listed here http://paste.lisp.org/display/315214
13:59 jurov asciilifeform: i tried to check my own keys but http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BBB0A99950037551F533850A677ABD62D0AEE7D7 gives me a broomstick
13:59 jurov then i noticed you use yet longer fingerprints
14:00 asciilifeform phf: not only this, but i strongly suspect that winblowz pgp eats them all...
14:01 jurov oh this is correct: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgfp/BBB0A99950037551F533850A677ABD62D0AEE7D7
14:02 asciilifeform jurov: why would i use short fp for anything!
14:03 jurov so even the 40char one is short?
14:04 asciilifeform the one above is correct.
~ 16 minutes ~
14:21 * asciilifeform foiled in yet another escape attempt from butugychag.
14:21 ben_vulpes poor baby
14:21 asciilifeform lel
14:22 phf need a top-secret job where can discuss things in a public log, tmsr style
14:23 asciilifeform phf: pretty much all of my conversations ended the same way
14:23 asciilifeform (where i refuse to take holy orders, and they stop calling)
14:24 phf i've interviewed for reverser jobs in 2004 or so when i was still doing "infosec", and my interviews all ended same way because i'm not a citizen
14:25 mircea_popescu nice work phf .
14:25 asciilifeform i'm a citizen, but no good at lying.
14:26 mircea_popescu jurov he has to because obv keys can be diddled.
14:26 mircea_popescu we've seen different keys of same fingerprints etc.
14:26 phf "в день индийский слон съедает 100 кг сена, 50 кг моркови, 30 кг капусты, 40 кг хлеба и т.д" - неужели правда, что этот слон столько съедает? - съесть он может и съел бы, да кто ему даст...
14:27 mircea_popescu lol
14:28 mircea_popescu anyway, yet another thing bitcoin corrupts irretrievably. "wtf this secret job has no public log ? a fie upon you!"
14:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/dscf-1957.jpg << face ?
14:33 jurov wtf you're on? i never tried to approach phuctor with sort fingerprint
14:33 jurov i always used 40-char one, just wrong url
14:34 jurov *with short fingerprint
14:36 jurov and noticed /gpgkey/ uses much longer hexporn and was confused
14:36 jurov that one is sha512 or something?
14:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: almost face!
14:37 asciilifeform neato.
14:38 asciilifeform съесть он может и съел бы, да кто ему даст << win.
14:38 asciilifeform ^ my entire life.
14:38 asciilifeform $up gabriel_laddel
14:38 deedbot gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
14:38 mircea_popescu jurov the reason for teh hexporn is that there have been diddled keys!
14:39 jurov yes!
14:39 mircea_popescu right.
14:39 mircea_popescu $up anotheryou
14:39 deedbot anotheryou voiced for 30 minutes.
14:39 jurov and i'm asking, what does /gpgkey/0xhexporn stand for?
14:40 mircea_popescu ie how he derives it from the keys ? nfi. i always assumed it's arbitrary index from db
14:40 asciilifeform jurov: it is a hash of the moduli
14:40 asciilifeform arbitrary!
14:40 asciilifeform plox do not attempt to use for anything other than indexing on phuctor.
14:40 asciilifeform NOT same as fp !
14:40 asciilifeform those are separate !
14:40 mircea_popescu $up plp
14:40 deedbot plp voiced for 30 minutes.
14:40 jurov ok, ty
14:40 asciilifeform and correspond to legit fp
14:41 asciilifeform jurov: i needed a way to uniquely identify ~keys~ rather than ~moduli~
14:41 asciilifeform so that i could hash a key and determine if we have it already
14:41 asciilifeform without a megatonne of db grind
14:41 asciilifeform thinkaboutit.
14:41 mircea_popescu $up distemper
14:41 deedbot distemper voiced for 30 minutes.
14:42 jurov it's amazing that fingerprint is not even suitable for that use.
14:42 mircea_popescu quite the accomplishment yeah.
14:42 asciilifeform jurov: not only, but fp identified MODULI
14:42 asciilifeform (even if it worked perfectly with 0 collisions, which, guess what.)
14:43 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor__
14:43 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
14:44 asciilifeform so many silenceisgolden folx
14:44 mircea_popescu your dash-mojo is not powerful enough!
14:44 asciilifeform such quiet
14:46 anotheryou sorry, just ment to lurk :) don't mind me. Maybe most don't need the up.
14:47 anotheryou trying to make sense and reading a bit before asciing stupid questions :)
14:47 mircea_popescu yeh.
14:47 asciilifeform commendable.
14:47 mircea_popescu i kinda gave up autovoicing the default nick folken.
14:48 asciilifeform at this point i can see it.
14:48 mircea_popescu he has a point, too. can just be here for the feeds.
14:50 anotheryou So many german pirate-party members on the list. How where the tested keys selected? I assume you had to start somewhere...
14:50 mircea_popescu nah, no selection. it's the whole sks dump
14:50 asciilifeform anotheryou: https://sks-keyservers.net
14:50 mircea_popescu (the keys are not processed one at a time. this used to be the case, but not anymore. now, all done simultaneously)
14:53 anotheryou So my uninformed conclusion would be that something went especially wrong in germany or the pirates cryptoparties got a lot of people using pgp in the first place.
14:53 asciilifeform anotheryou: most of the german keys are of the 'mirrored' type
14:53 asciilifeform and quite likely were crafted by a third party.
14:54 anotheryou third party means it was sort of an impersonation?
14:54 asciilifeform aha.
14:54 asciilifeform they appear to have the genuine key's fingerprint in certain pgp clients.
14:54 anotheryou I see.
14:54 anotheryou thanks for all the work :)
14:57 mircea_popescu it'd be fun if we could diagnose, eg, fukushima by quality of keys from place and time.
14:57 asciilifeform as with digital cameras, l0l!
14:58 mircea_popescu aha.
14:58 asciilifeform would be ++lulzy if we had the neutronograph
14:58 asciilifeform (neutron background pretty much everywhere on planet3 is same, with the exception of fukkupppies)
14:58 jurov neutrinoscope!
14:58 mircea_popescu but no, it's entirely out of the question any sort of natural event is at work here. usg.nsa been diddling not merely angela merkel's phone,
14:58 mircea_popescu but all communications of all germans at all levels possible.
14:59 asciilifeform the germans have been taking it nice and hard in the arse for half century +.
14:59 asciilifeform and so quietly, too.
14:59 mircea_popescu while supplies last.
14:59 asciilifeform $up steffen
14:59 deedbot steffen voiced for 30 minutes.
15:00 steffen being a german myself, yes, and that's where I thought pgp added a nice sense of privacy to interested parties no matter the government
15:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: pgp really took off in de, it seems
15:01 asciilifeform so that was where the ferret cannon was aimed.
15:01 steffen now my next question would be which software was used to generate the flawed keys and if those were software packages with malicious intent
15:01 mircea_popescu steffen you gotta make sure your pgp is actual protocol-strength rsa not merely promise-strength rsa tho.
15:01 mircea_popescu many rsa implementations, especially for the closed source walled gardens, are miserable indeed.
15:02 steffen I lack the skill to verify my software package
15:02 steffen i can only be so paranoid.
15:02 mircea_popescu steffen we've been trying to get people with exposed keys to post the software they used.
15:02 mircea_popescu steffen the golden standard re such verifications in tmsr is V.
15:03 steffen at least so far I can see that my key is not malformed. I'll certainly check that result page periodically in the future.
15:04 mircea_popescu works.
15:04 steffen a lot of germans that I know use gpg4win
15:05 steffen which incidentally is also a software package vetted by the BSI (german ministry for informational security or something like that)
15:05 mircea_popescu yeah ; a lot of eulora players also. seems to be the most accessible for "people in general"
15:08 asciilifeform steffen: any ministry recommending a ms-winblowz package ipso facto answers to washington.
15:09 mircea_popescu you recommend ida :)
15:09 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor__
15:09 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
15:10 fromphuctor__ i have an idea for phuctor
15:10 mircea_popescu shoot.
15:10 fromphuctor__ you could collect many millions keys from SSH server using the ssh-keyscan utility included in OpenSSH
15:10 fromphuctor__ it is very fast
15:10 mircea_popescu iiuc jurov already has a more or less complete package of github keys, working to turn them into proper format.
15:11 asciilifeform mega-unsurprise, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609094 << buried.
15:11 mircea_popescu the rub there is, currently, the conversion not the acquisition
15:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform awww, herpy bock got humiliated in public ?
15:11 fromphuctor__ ssh-keyscan provide digits
↖
15:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha
15:12 asciilifeform after which, zap
15:12 mircea_popescu fromphuctor__ yes but phuctor currently eats rfc 4880 format, owing to its history as a pgp key checker.
15:12 asciilifeform what the hell happened to the last time folks collected ssh pubkeys and bernsteined'em
15:12 asciilifeform i tried to find out, found ~0
15:12 mircea_popescu if you have a conversion script anywhere plox feel free to publish.
15:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "published studies".
15:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yeah, heninger et al. but iirc there were others
15:13 mircea_popescu of course, others. "published".
15:14 ben_vulpes no code, not published.
15:14 ben_vulpes not in wot, not published.
15:14 asciilifeform sorta lulzy, how much mileage one can get by taking all the shit these muppets claim to have done, and actually ~doing~ it
15:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but he has a point ; once we get conversion going running a ssh-keyscan werker is good idea.
↖
15:14 asciilifeform aha
15:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform quite so, yep.
15:14 mircea_popescu reminds me of being in school.
15:15 fromphuctor__ bye bye
15:15 jurov ssh-keyscan and the github trove are completely independent things (former scans for server keys, latter are users' keys)
15:16 mircea_popescu jurov yeah meanwhile it percolated through my head.
15:16 mircea_popescu this is rounding out nicely actually!
15:16 fromphuctor__ it would be interested testing router keys
15:16 mircea_popescu it even has a -t rsa1!
15:17 mircea_popescu which really halps.
15:17 mircea_popescu $up fromphuctor___
15:17 deedbot fromphuctor___ voiced for 30 minutes.
15:17 fromphuctor__ https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSSH/Cookbook/Authentication_Keys#Downloading_keys
15:17 fromphuctor___ thanks... would the phuctor checker work with non PGP keys, if i correctly converted an RSA key to the required format?
15:17 mircea_popescu absolutely.
15:18 mircea_popescu as long as it's a rsa key, it will work.
15:18 fromphuctor___ sounds like i'll be busy then!
15:18 mircea_popescu keep us posted
15:18 mircea_popescu also, consider registering your key with deedbot
15:18 mircea_popescu helps build your identity, and you'll be able to self-voice.
15:19 fromphuctor___ i need to figure out how to convert plain key to that base64/der stuff
15:19 fromphuctor___ ok
15:19 mircea_popescu it's also in the logs, but, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4880
15:20 fromphuctor___ will the submit page tell me my key is malformed if i made a mistake?
15:20 mircea_popescu yes.
15:20 fromphuctor___ cool
15:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/4hhd9p/psa_you_may_want_to_check_your_pgp_keys_and_keys/d2pqq41 << lel
15:22 asciilifeform was there really..?
15:22 asciilifeform i can't wait to listen to the tape of 'my' talk.
15:22 asciilifeform at shitcon.
15:22 asciilifeform or wherever.
15:22 mircea_popescu no idea ?
15:23 mircea_popescu you're asking me who you talked to ? what am i, the omniphone ?
15:23 asciilifeform well i did not in actuality give any such lecture
15:23 asciilifeform in real life.
15:23 asciilifeform but perhaps someone gave 'for'.
15:23 asciilifeform y'know, a henninger.
15:23 mircea_popescu eh reddit ; who even has teh energy.
15:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: l0l looks like moar ddos.
15:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it won't last, server's pretty well supplied.
15:34 mircea_popescu let 'em try.
15:35 mircea_popescu incidentally, i just remembered : http://www.hanewin.net/encrypt/PGpubkey.htm << this of any use ?
15:36 asciilifeform pretty basic rfc4880 parser thing aha
15:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but it also has a convertor to mpi/b64
15:38 mircea_popescu $up andrej235
15:38 deedbot andrej235 voiced for 30 minutes.
15:38 asciilifeform for folks trying to understand the format, it is worth a read
15:39 mircea_popescu PGencode.js particularily interesting i thought as it really takes base64 pubkey and puts it through rsa.js
15:39 mircea_popescu so isn't this pretty much 99% of bignum->rsa in pgp format ?
15:40 asciilifeform aha
15:40 asciilifeform agonizing to read on account of shitlang
15:40 asciilifeform and the million kludges it needs to do basic things
15:40 asciilifeform (e.g., ordinary integers)
15:40 mircea_popescu http://www.hanewin.net/encrypt/PGencode.js << the comments peculiarily amusing.
15:41 mircea_popescu "windows clock moves in 18.2 ms jumps"
15:41 asciilifeform 'We need an unpredictable session key of 128 bits ( = 2^128 possible keys).' << lel
15:41 mircea_popescu still. it has a key parser that works.
15:41 asciilifeform aha
15:42 asciilifeform i actually came across it before, when cataloguing known pgptrons
15:42 asciilifeform (hunting for 'magical' ones)
15:42 mircea_popescu i put it on my pgp page on trilema,. forgot all abpout it, now stumbled on it all over again
15:42 mircea_popescu blogs rule.
15:43 mircea_popescu but yes, pretty nifty as you can use it to send a [sorta] encrypted message entirely via web
15:43 asciilifeform just like keybase!1111111
~ 22 minutes ~
16:05 asciilifeform ;;later tell jurov observed any spike in trb site traffic ? (it is linked from nosuchlabs.com)
↖
16:05 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 17 minutes ~
16:22 asciilifeform so... looks like the reddit thing is done, huh.
16:22 asciilifeform like writing on beach sand.
16:24 asciilifeform farts in the wind.
16:25 asciilifeform $up plp
16:25 deedbot plp voiced for 30 minutes.
16:25 mircea_popescu you sound almopst like you're expecting something.
16:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there is always the 1 reader in a million who says something applicable.
16:26 asciilifeform mega-unsurprise that he did not appear, sure.
16:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: picture if you threw a match into latrine and it roared with fire like jet engine.
16:29 asciilifeform yes, it is quite clear that latrine will not be flying anywhere.
16:29 asciilifeform but still impressive.
16:30 mircea_popescu of course he appeared ? we got all sorts of workable ideas for phuctor!
16:31 asciilifeform i don't recall any new ones
16:32 mircea_popescu well "new", nothing's ever new.
~ 16 minutes ~
16:49 asciilifeform lel, megatonnes of traffic on my www also
16:50 asciilifeform largely from mircea_popescu's links
~ 22 minutes ~
17:12 asciilifeform $up Valfor
17:12 deedbot Valfor voiced for 30 minutes.
17:17 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor__
17:17 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 45 minutes ~
18:03 phf since today is a looking at stats day, btcbase is at modest 3500 hits right now, which has been the average since about april 6th, but note that the day is not over and system has been down for almost 8 hours. the number of hits brought by referer has spiked though to ~~500, and looking at graph roughly correlates to trilema posts. not surprisingly the top referer is trilema at ~~1000, followed by qntra at ~~600 and phuctor at ~~80.
18:03 phf (the last three values are totals)
18:09 phf the-phuctoring is second top ref from trilema, losing out by a large margin to top ref ill-pay-for-your-tits
18:18 mircea_popescu o.O check out the tits!
18:24 asciilifeform $up fromphuctor__
18:24 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
18:33 deedbot [Trilema] The mathematics of scamming - http://trilema.com/2016/the-mathematics-of-scamming/
18:36 mircea_popescu $up bolts
18:36 deedbot bolts voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~
19:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 10000000th prime is...
19:37 asciilifeform 179424691
19:38 asciilifeform gentlement please welcome the all-new 8ball.
19:38 asciilifeform deploying now.
19:49 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu from beloved l0lcow, https://twitter.com/hanno/status/727179938017759232
↖
19:49 gribble The operation succeeded.
19:49 asciilifeform https://twitter.com/hanno/status/727049579389157376 << and
19:50 asciilifeform 'if it's a bug it's most likely in the keyservers. if you look at those keys they usually have a lot of bytes replaced by ff values'
19:50 asciilifeform ^ gold
19:52 asciilifeform https://github.com/hannob/pgpmoduli << and he's got the obligatory 'we did it first, move along!' thing going. 7h ago.
19:56 asciilifeform incidentally, didn't the derp already have a 'we did ALL the keyz' post LAST may ?
↖
19:56 asciilifeform so how come he has to hastily do it (with henninger's proggy no less, see his shithub) ~now~ ?
19:56 asciilifeform noteventrying.jpg
19:57 asciilifeform (and where are his posts on any other subject ?)
~ 29 minutes ~
20:26 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 6723834688378347131962599764946917095897099 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Tim Fiedler <tfcoding@gmail.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FE99DB4C8A6980859D6C2322594C1B2CB4348ECB0F9BA3A7275285C7F3D02F7F
↖
20:26 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 4309906883679414593286257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Sven Arnold <psykoman@system-failures.org>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC9D7BC1ADFF9D074C29DA18CB7224920FDAABD2348152DE296A6293FF3C1914
20:26 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 7495348559018251213 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Paul Okkerse (Hoofd ICT) <paulokkerse@huighaverlag.nl>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DAB44446629F9CF37EB64BF72BBB6471AB6817777283D5F20F162E4FD344C3C5
20:26 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 1391496359719179921 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Tim Fiedler <tifi@goapple.de>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D7B81471B4D1C2FC6AA8D6709F391B026BD1BAFEBAB21AE8BA277C1B3D054536
20:26 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 2095136408731482091 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Yumeomi Tanaki; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9B9B0ED6921A8C15003519B16DAED0FB79CB70782F178A4DD5CE5FBDCF85C47A
20:26 asciilifeform theeeeeeeere we go
20:26 * asciilifeform cleans chopping block
20:28 asciilifeform the folks who keep popping, are good candidates for 'random int' hypothesis
20:29 asciilifeform others - less so.
20:31 * asciilifeform doing what he does every single fucking day of the week, applying to jobz, and notices a 'christ-based software products!'
20:31 asciilifeform finally the ancient prophecy coming true, a genuine merger of software and conventional voodoo !
↖
20:32 BingoBoingo Classic trilema http://trilema.com/2013/margaritas-ante-porcos-as-it-were/
↖
20:33 asciilifeform lulzily i get unsolicited wurk callz every few days
20:33 asciilifeform but they are useless
20:35 ben_vulpes how useless?
20:35 asciilifeform nonremote
20:35 asciilifeform and 9 times out of 10 usg.
20:36 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 226646661742163 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'dallasdak96 <teardownthiswall@tormail.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/12AD3EF8AAEFE48EA63A8917991A984660ECEB4194F6F5CEC2EA8304CB2C120F
20:36 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 625320991898048033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Henry Hertz Hobbit <hhhobbit@gmail.com>; Henry Hertz Hobbit <hhhobbit@hotmail.com>; Henry Hertz Hobbit <hhhobbit@securemecca.net>; Henry Hertz Hobbit <henryhertzhobbit@yahoo.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/63016E43A530350EC983F09A74C50EC8E87FEB92F3DEAC355BE2E64CA7985921
↖
20:36 ben_vulpes path dependency's a bitch.
20:36 ben_vulpes but hey!
20:36 ben_vulpes you could be fielding questions from clients past about why you billed them nine hundred grand for misc. support over the month.
20:36 ben_vulpes look at the upside! think of all the tacks you don't have to chew!
20:37 asciilifeform waiwut
20:38 asciilifeform $up zgrep
20:38 deedbot zgrep voiced for 30 minutes.
20:38 asciilifeform ben_vulpes knows that i chew only rusty nails mixed in liquid shit
20:38 asciilifeform never tacks.
20:39 * trinque emits a parser error
20:40 ben_vulpes unrelatedly, datomic is a *very* spiffy data abstraction layer.
20:40 asciilifeform wats that
20:40 ben_vulpes proprietary proggy that sits atop your $db of choice
20:41 asciilifeform and?
20:41 ben_vulpes effectively a distributed prolog-alike db, to the extent that i can be trusted to call something 'prolog-alike'
20:42 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ever play with symbolics 'joshua' ?
↖
20:42 ben_vulpes the answer to 'ever play with symbolics *' is always 'no', dude.
20:42 asciilifeform https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.871/Assignment3/joshua-reference-manual.pdf
20:42 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: download 13333333333333333337 w4r3z and run emulator
20:43 asciilifeform it (mostly) worx.
20:43 asciilifeform alternatively,
20:43 asciilifeform watch the movie, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uPwQuxjgQo .
20:43 ben_vulpes not an expert system, not ai, not anything special.
20:44 ben_vulpes simple an EAVT data store with a single threaded writer. caches recent images of the db in peer memory (yes, 'immutable' db).
20:45 asciilifeform like 'elephant' ?
↖
20:45 ben_vulpes ish
20:45 asciilifeform ( for n00bz, https://common-lisp.net/project/elephant )
20:45 ben_vulpes but i don't know enough about elephant to say.
20:45 ben_vulpes seemed very specifically a CLOS data store.
20:46 asciilifeform it is spiffy
20:46 asciilifeform mostly shoots in the head the need to think about db
20:46 ben_vulpes mostly, except as trinque discovered when one goes to do joins.
20:46 asciilifeform but tricky to set up (it refuses to work on a great many 'modern' linuxen due to library retardation)
20:46 ben_vulpes when, smack back in SQLland.
20:46 asciilifeform iirc trinque was using conventional sql ?
20:47 ben_vulpes elephant on PG.
20:47 asciilifeform ah hm.
20:47 ben_vulpes because if it cannot support multiple web hosts, it is not a db with which i will fuck.
20:47 asciilifeform what means 'multiple web hosts' ?
20:47 trinque tbh I'm willing to consider that if you wrote too many layers of joins and views, you chose the wrong data structure in the beginning
↖
20:47 asciilifeform >1 instance of apache? or what
20:48 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: yes, that. or your actual logic layer of choice.
20:49 ben_vulpes whatever it is that returns the JSON that sends mircea_popescu scrambling and screaming for the "programmer's view"
20:49 phf Datomic is piece of shit for non-trivial datasets. I don't understand how they could steal so much old lisp tech and still manage to fuck it up
20:50 asciilifeform phf: the perennial question re shitware, no ?
20:50 ben_vulpes phf: knows from experience?!
20:50 asciilifeform think of, e.g., java.
20:50 asciilifeform 'stole so much, delivers so little'
20:51 ben_vulpes i wish i had the historical perspective to even know.
20:51 ben_vulpes mostly, i find rocks of various sharpness and heaviness and use them to beat my local reality into shape.
20:52 ben_vulpes phf: i would like to hear about what kinds of misery you've found in datomic. not to doubt! never to doubt the misery of technology. but out of curiosity, and limits-finding by proxy.
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20:55 ben_vulpes (and also as previously discussed in logs, the scraps on my table are rarely of "web scale" magnitude)
20:58 phf Sorry I'm on phone and just needed to pipe in. But I picked up datomic on a project as "clojure take on allegro cache" and I was expecting similar performance (tens of millions of records on a reasonable machine)
20:59 ben_vulpes > allegro cache
20:59 * ben_vulpes sobs
20:59 phf Needless to say it's nowhere near there. Be prepared to grok both datomic and the underlying store.
20:59 ben_vulpes mhm.
20:59 ben_vulpes yeah, i only run on postgres for that precise reason.
21:00 phf Basically the game becomes "how does query translate into PostgreSQL so I can index all the things"
21:01 phf And those proverbial millions of records require really beefy machines. 8gb of ram, fast flash drives, etc
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21:01 ben_vulpes it is the classic "db that looks good but needs tender loving care from its authors to work well" software trap.
21:01 phf Don't worry you can hire them to consult :)
21:01 ben_vulpes i harbor no illusions in this regard.
21:02 ben_vulpes were i not desperately trying to eke my own living out i would most likely be camping outside of the cognitect offices until they took pity upon me and let me sweep the floor.
21:04 ben_vulpes > allows programmers to work directly with objects as if they were in memory while in fact the object data is always stored persistently << stinks of ORM shit-dippery
21:05 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: wats that
21:05 ben_vulpes "object relational model"
21:05 * asciilifeform knows ~nothing of this.
21:06 ben_vulpes may ye long remain ignorant of it
21:06 ben_vulpes Foo.objects.get(pk=20) or Foo.objects.get(name="Stan")
21:06 ben_vulpes 'tis the root of the success of Rails and friends
21:06 trinque b-but y'know sql is hard and so caked shit atop
21:06 ben_vulpes "you mean i don't have to think about the db!?!?"
21:08 * ben_vulpes off
~ 45 minutes ~
21:54 BingoBoingo https://i.imgur.com/gbUTblM.png
22:07 BingoBoingo https://sli.mg/3Jyyjm
22:19 BingoBoingo !up ascii_deadfiber
22:19 gribble Error: "up" is not a valid command.
22:19 BingoBoingo $UP ascii_deadfiber
22:19 deedbot ascii_deadfiber voiced for 30 minutes.
22:19 ascii_deadfiber ho.
22:19 ascii_deadfiber hoho.
22:20 BingoBoingo HO HO HO TO YOU TOO FULL STOP
22:20 ascii_deadfiber snow, in motherfucking may.
↖
22:20 BingoBoingo wow, I thought you had swamp
22:20 ascii_deadfiber aha.
22:21 ascii_deadfiber aha.
22:21 ascii_deadfiber and icestorm in may.
22:21 ascii_deadfiber apparently.
22:21 BingoBoingo And ascii_deadfiber thinks the middle west is horribru
22:21 ascii_deadfiber zoolag dead until further notice.
22:26 ascii_deadfiber you can't even ~get~ real net in midwest.
↖
22:27 ascii_deadfiber at least not on human budget.
22:28 BingoBoingo Seriously, you get fiber in the middle west, that connects to hubs in different directions. We discovered redundancy 3 years ago and nao everything is grand.
22:29 ascii_deadfiber then why BingoBoingo's node not 24/7 ?
22:30 BingoBoingo Not all middle west are equal and which node is Bingo's?
22:30 ascii_deadfiber the one mentioned back when
22:31 ascii_deadfiber and in which midwest decent fiber?
22:31 ascii_deadfiber if it's urban centres, i need those like i need second arse drilled.
22:35 BingoBoingo Turned out box rented back then was crap still running node at home and not advertising, programable version string for reason
22:36 BingoBoingo And no, the good fiber in the midwest is in exurbs. Usually connects to nearest urban center and a further urban center because
22:50 BingoBoingo $up dotblank
22:50 deedbot dotblank voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 16 minutes ~
23:06 BingoBoingo $up fromphuctor__
23:06 deedbot fromphuctor__ voiced for 30 minutes.
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