Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2016-03-17 | 2016-03-19 →
00:21 ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432214 << mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: this was all very rude and uncalled for, my apologies
00:21 assbot Logged on 14-03-2016 15:57:06; ben_vulpes: bitbet is dead.
00:22 asciilifeform not dead, but in a coma.
00:25 ben_vulpes i don't see how it can continue without mods and hosting on the books.
00:27 pete_dushenski then bitbet needs a 5% rake. problem solved ?
~ 18 minutes ~
00:45 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes s'okay, you;'re young and all.
00:48 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435577 << how'd this go ?
00:48 assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 22:22:55; asciilifeform: distribute the exponentiated payload !111111
00:48 pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435694 << heart attack. at least the men. they become accustomed to wholesome and hearty diets in their active years, which they have a hard time foregoing in their later years, despite increasingly sedentary lifestyles. ticker eventually calls it quits.
00:48 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 02:31:08; asciilifeform: what do american farmers typically die of on he job?
00:48 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435593 << check out jurov, he understands commerce!
00:48 assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 22:44:15; jurov: "the goal is to have whole piece" implies it is seekable, thus feasible to scan the file for signatures from the end
00:51 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: i should further clarify that 'active years' were, regardless of the farmer's age, up until about 20 years ago. the size of farms have grown exponentially of late, hand-in-hand with the increased cost of inputs and the decreased price of outputs.
00:53 pete_dushenski til draghi is a woman!
00:54 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435633 << i don't use heretic conventions. /n ftw.
00:54 assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 23:10:43; asciilifeform: because - guess what - a CR/LF, LF, or CR - LOOK THE SAME on the page.
00:54 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435640 << pretty much!
00:54 assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 23:15:07; jurov: no, he wants everything converted to plain english. maybe even 5-bit code without support for newline characters.
00:55 pete_dushenski ecb wanted to keep up with feds but weren't nearing election (or selection) so they transgendered the poor sob
00:55 mircea_popescu a) eye-readable contract ; b) machine-verifiable signature ; c) that can also be verified by hand ; d) in the same item.
00:55 pete_dushenski sounds reasonable
00:55 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435644 << yes, but the problerm needs fixing, not replacing with worse problem.
00:55 assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 23:16:04; asciilifeform: at the cost of gpg being utterly retarded in 101 ways
00:57 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: assuming: betbet revenue is 100x divs (fault in several ways), and 2500 hours of time, and 0.4% of bitbet revenue to mods implies a .18 btc/hr mod rate. perverse incentive, though.
00:57 mircea_popescu jurov ftr, "specie" in english means gold bullion. it's unadvisable to use in the context you do.
00:58 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes a simple way to address the problem is put in a fixed per-bet fee, of say .2 or .3 or w/e, and make bet minimum 1 or somesuch.
00:59 mircea_popescu jurov is the mario draghi "she" deliberate ?
00:59 mircea_popescu also, it wouldn't be "bucks", it'd be gyeuros.
00:59 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: if mods are to be paid in any fashion, it ought to be bbet shares.
01:00 pete_dushenski 1k shares per resolution or something
01:00 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: a) why is that and b) out of whose piggy?
01:00 mircea_popescu shares just means dilution. it's not necessarily a bad idea, use qntra experience.
01:02 pete_dushenski ^
01:02 ben_vulpes aha
01:03 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435683 <<< usg has "magistrate judges" ie, stalin's police "judicial powers" for this very purpose.
01:03 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 02:18:42; asciilifeform: 'I did fight things out in court. It just occurred in secret, and while a proper description would require the use of vulgarity, I'll summarize by saying I was railroaded. The length of time between when I received the PRTT order, and when I was found in contempt (ex parte) was about 5 weeks. For comparison the /median /time between filing and disposition of a civil contempt charge in federal court du
01:03 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435685 << except 27 trn doesn't begin to matter in this discussion.
01:03 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 02:20:52; asciilifeform: 'we are entitled to everyone's plain text data, and if Congress won't give it to us, we'll use our 27.1 billion dollar budget, and army of 100K lawyers to take it in court. Your tax dollars at work.'
01:03 ben_vulpes bitbet under ddos?
01:04 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: bbet share payment also avoids the issue of mods dragging their heels in resolving a sticky situation, as per hour fees would. share payment also puts skin in the game and flat-rate payment incentives efficiency.
01:05 ben_vulpes mhm.
01:06 mircea_popescu qntra model really taught us a lot. only thing is... came years after original bitbet.
01:09 ben_vulpes heh
01:09 ben_vulpes "gotta dilute something!"
01:09 mircea_popescu it's not entirely unwarranted. mods do contribute value.
01:10 mircea_popescu dilution matching contribution is mere growth, quite healthy.
01:10 mircea_popescu or so the theory goes, at any rate.
~ 18 minutes ~
01:28 BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435755 << twas an edit of mine, my bad
01:28 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 04:57:49; mircea_popescu: jurov ftr, "specie" in english means gold bullion. it's unadvisable to use in the context you do.
01:29 BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435757<< Also me, I needed to pick a pronoun and feminism'd it
01:29 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 04:59:01; mircea_popescu: jurov is the mario draghi "she" deliberate ?
01:30 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: could the digest be a tool for node operators to ensure access to miners?
01:31 ben_vulpes s/tool/constraint
01:42 mircea_popescu how do you mean ben_vulpes ?
01:45 ben_vulpes if nonce demand is kept high enough, anyone operating a node that can produce digests has something of value to miners.
01:45 mircea_popescu yes, that's the idea.
01:45 ben_vulpes and if the two parties are engaged in commerce, at least there must be an open channel to those consuming the digests.
01:46 mircea_popescu myeah.
01:46 ben_vulpes a route around the sybils perhaps?
01:46 mircea_popescu i don't credit the "sybils quam sybils" theory.
01:48 BingoBoingo !up Alopex
01:48 BingoBoingo !up pigeons
01:52 mircea_popescu it;s nothing short of saying "the clouds must be painted on the firmament because they are seen and the parsimonious explanation of all thigns seen is painting".
01:52 mircea_popescu clouds have a function beyond their perceptible form ; "sybils" means nothing other than the cartel.
02:06 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
02:07 gribble Current Blocks: 403178 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 21 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 31 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
~ 50 minutes ~
02:57 BingoBoingo https://i.imgur.com/DfvMjID.gifv
02:57 assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/21yEDCV )
02:57 BingoBoingo !up tych0
~ 1 hours 23 minutes ~
04:20 BingoBoingo !up qntranet
~ 2 hours 27 minutes ~
06:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00041975 = 4.7012 BTC [-] {2}
~ 25 minutes ~
07:13 deedbot- [fr.anco.is] BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent - http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-formal-application-and-letter-of-intent/
07:15 davout kakobrekla: ^
07:15 davout ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-formal-application-and-letter-of-intent/
07:15 assbot BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent | fr.anco.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1R82OmO )
07:15 gribble The operation succeeded.
07:28 jurov BingoBoingo: better make yourself an author if you do such extensive changes
07:31 BingoBoingo jurov: Sorry, I've added a note http://qntra.net/2016/03/eu-marching-towards-helicopter-money-as-other-manipulations-are-exhausted/#comment-48935
07:31 assbot EU Marching Towards "Helicopter Money" As Other Manipulations Are Exhausted | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/22oG0cX )
07:31 jurov ok, ty
~ 24 minutes ~
07:56 shinohai https://dashtalk.org/threads/darkcoin-company-busted.8381/ <<< is that a little old lady in that pic?
07:56 assbot Darkcoin.company BUSTED !! | DashTalk ... ( http://bit.ly/22oGxM2 )
08:07 BingoBoingo http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/newspics/26apr13/4.jpg
08:07 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1XzVNiu )
08:13 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435750<< we never had this.
08:13 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 04:55:17; mircea_popescu: a) eye-readable contract ; b) machine-verifiable signature ; c) that can also be verified by hand ; d) in the same item.
08:14 asciilifeform ( and if it must be had, the text is liable to look like a chimera of the talmud and nazi telex !11)
08:15 shinohai ;;ticker --market all
08:15 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.78, vol: 3292.33562821 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.281, vol: 5136.5319 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 413.47, vol: 9471.992610630001 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 420.2, vol: 1.68670123 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 417.492968, vol: 32362.02050000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 415.157, vol: 2359.4455159 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.5235, vol: 63.25511783 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
08:15 shinohai ;;more
08:15 gribble 416.1200874
08:18 deedbot- [Qntra] Bitcoin Network Difficulty Up ~4.46 % - http://qntra.net/2016/03/bitcoin-network-difficulty-up-4-46/
08:19 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435752 << a good chunk of the retardation is a ~result~ of the clearsign thing.
08:19 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 04:55:51; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435644 << yes, but the problerm needs fixing, not replacing with worse problem.
08:20 asciilifeform also i would like to watch mp or anyone actually ~do~ the 'hand verify' thing.
08:21 BingoBoingo More weather on the road to Forknarok https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7575
08:22 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435794 << ftr i utterly fail to grasp how he made this leap
08:22 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 05:52:52; mircea_popescu: clouds have a function beyond their perceptible form ; "sybils" means nothing other than the cartel.
08:27 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435816 << the other objectionable thing is how mircea_popescu 'jwz's 'eye-readable' to mean 'existing software, and particularly unix cat'
08:27 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 12:13:45; assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 04:55:17; mircea_popescu: a) eye-readable contract ; b) machine-verifiable signature ; c) that can also be verified by hand ; d) in the same item.
08:28 asciilifeform which are pointedly ~not~ logically equivalent
08:30 asciilifeform and yes, if you want hand-verify, you gotta have the talmud-style line checksums.
08:30 asciilifeform (and exclude newlines from the hash entirely, and other demented things)
~ 23 minutes ~
08:54 BingoBoingo http://media.dumpert.nl/foto/f51a8fa1_IMG_1791.png.png
08:54 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1RqE4oX )
09:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00041975 = 1.9309 BTC [-]
~ 24 minutes ~
09:25 jurov asciilifeform: if he is fine with serially connecting elements with wildly variable resistances to 300V, no wonder he's fine with many other interesting things :)
09:27 * BingoBoingo always imagined low power colo working off of DC straight from batteries
09:37 BingoBoingo Get power to batteries however, one it's in the batteries dice it up and feed to machines as appropriate
09:39 jurov even batteries are advised not to be massively serially connected, you know
09:41 jurov plus, high voltage DC is more dangerous to humans than AC, plus harder to extinguish arcs
09:42 fluffypony yeah DC will kill you
09:42 fluffypony AC will just annoy you
09:46 solrodar mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: davout does indeed seem to be better qualified than me
09:46 solrodar but before it gets written into a contract I want to question why we're presuming that bills are more senior than bettor funds
09:47 BingoBoingo Also in Davout's favor is he parted out and closed a contentious property before after he acquired Instawallet and discovered it to be toxic. He's got experience dealing with the aggro.
09:48 BingoBoingo <jurov> even batteries are advised not to be massively serially connected, you know << Well, I imagined massively parallel FeNi banks. linked to get target voltages. Abuse however just so long as you remember to water them.
09:49 BingoBoingo And there's even automatic watering systems available for that part
09:50 BingoBoingo In other news, today is closing arguments for Hulk Hogan v. Gawker
09:54 shinohai http://boards.4chan.org/biz/thread/1145795/after-missing-the-eth-train-i-just-took-out-a <<< nice
09:54 assbot /biz/ - After missing the Eth train, I just took out a $10 - Business & Finance - 4chan ... ( http://bit.ly/258IIlZ )
09:55 davout solrodar: unless the liquidator bill is senior he has no guarantee to be paid, in which case...
09:55 solrodar that one yes
09:55 solrodar but why necessarily other ones?
09:57 mircea_popescu davout yup saw pingback.
09:59 mircea_popescu solrodar bills are senior because in general for the same general reason. you don't pay electricity, bankrupt or not, you can't have the lights on. receiver still has to work.
10:00 solrodar there are no lights
10:00 solrodar the site is dead
10:01 mircea_popescu ...
10:01 solrodar and the only bill in question is of course your bill for 17 BTC
10:01 mircea_popescu "i just disproved a general consideration by my misinterpretation of a particular" you say ?
10:01 solrodar if that is rejected or haircut, it doesn't impede the liquidator's work
10:02 mircea_popescu you can't base your judgement about what to do with a category on the basis of what you know or "can imagine" in terms of examples from that category.
10:02 mircea_popescu that's why black people aren't "naturally thieves" irrespective what black people you can personally summon to mind.
10:02 solrodar so you're saying there's a general principle in liquidation that all claims by suppliers and employees are senior to all claims by customers?
10:03 mircea_popescu by and large.
10:04 nubbins` <+solrodar>but before it gets written into a contract I want to question why we're presuming that bills are more senior than bettor funds << i want to question why you used "we"
10:04 mircea_popescu fiat practice is indeed vast and in time it has grown fragmented and oft contradictory.
10:07 solrodar since when do you follow fiat practice?
10:07 mircea_popescu if you ask "there's a general principle in liquidation" you are necessarily asking about fiat practice, there not being another practice in the field.
10:09 solrodar ok, but it's obviously a principle you wish to adopt
10:10 solrodar if the only argument is "receiver still has to work", then it only applies to claims the receiver must pay in order to do his work
10:10 BingoBoingo solrodar: Since the reciever's aim is recovering the maximum value from where it can, ideally they pay the bills to not injure the brand anymore than it has been by ending up in recievership.
10:10 mircea_popescu wow check out the darkcoin thing
10:10 BingoBoingo ;;google site:qntra.net darkcoin
10:10 gribble Darkcoin: Value Drops while going Open Source | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2014/10/darkcoin-value-drops-while-going-open-source/>; Qntra | Reporting the Intersection of Bitcoin, Technology, and Politics ...: <http://qntra.net/page/106/?action=prodinfo&cat_id=6&prod=10>; Paxful Gets Desperate, Priced Out Of Bitcoin | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2015/12/paxful-gets-desperate/>
10:11 solrodar BingoBoingo: not paying customers injures the brand a lot more than not paying mircea_popescu
10:11 mircea_popescu solrodar the receiver has the option to set aside bills anyway, so that's not much of a practical consideration.
10:11 solrodar true, but I would suggest it not be written in stone at this stage
10:12 BingoBoingo solrodar: Ideally everyone gets paid maximally. Bills and customers both are bounded liabilities.
10:12 mircea_popescu seniority is principally important so as to give the receiver the option, not the obligation, to pay things NOW, rather than promise to pay after he pays someone else.
10:12 davout solrodar: which is why i haven't written it in stone, in case you did not notice
10:12 mircea_popescu this neatly matches the ability of suppliers to cut the spaghetti NOW as opposed to the customers' ability to basically whine moar.
10:13 solrodar davout: "payment of the liabilities on a best-effort basis, ordered by priority (certified bills, bet winnings & refunds, shareholders)"
10:13 solrodar I suppose that could be read as not being an ordered list
10:13 mircea_popescu and in general this inept "mp said something ; i said something else because i'm just as much a X as mp" is the font of ineptitude.
10:13 mircea_popescu you wanna argue against something i said, do yourself and especially your posterity the favour of coming with eighteen armored divisions.
10:13 mircea_popescu of gold plated solid arguments.
10:13 davout solrodar: well, how about you think of a bitcoin transaction fee as a certified bill? it is necessary to pay it for the receiver to be able to actually bettors for example
10:14 davout *pay bettors
10:14 solrodar I agree
10:15 solrodar but as I said, if the only argument is "receiver still has to work", then it only applies to claims the receiver must pay in order to do his work
10:15 mircea_popescu do you read what's being said ?
10:15 solrodar yes, and I don't see where you responded to that point
10:15 mircea_popescu motherfucker.
10:15 mircea_popescu !down solrodar
10:16 mircea_popescu pfff.
10:16 solrodar I have only 0.2 BTC of outstanding bets, so this isn't really a conflict of interest for me
10:16 mircea_popescu two things, read them outloud to yourself. 1. if A is a class senior to B, then receiver MAY NOT proceed to pay B until he has disposed of A entirely. therefore suppliers MUST be in A and cusomters in B, BECAUSE customers can do nothing to injure the bankrupt concern,. whereas the suppliers can.
10:17 mircea_popescu this flows from the definition of the term supplier (comes before the company on the flow) and customer (comes after).
10:17 solrodar who says all suppliers must be in the same class?
10:17 mircea_popescu and 2. IF you want to argue against something i said, do yourself the favour and BRING VERY GOOD ARGUMENTS. because your own personal word will count for nothing much, and you'll just make a clown out of yourself.
10:19 * mircea_popescu notes bitterly that the chinese ARE fucking prosecuting their own bfl, unlike the usg faggots.
10:19 mircea_popescu and if i'm reading this correctly there may well be death sentences ?
10:19 PeterL solrodar they didn't say all suppliers must be in the same class, the receiver has the option to classify suppliers as urgent/non-urgent
10:20 solrodar yes, but if davout's list is read as an ordered list then it still says that all suppliers are senior to all bettors
10:20 PeterL but in order to have that flexibility, suppliers as a class must be senior to customers as a class
10:20 solrodar if he says it's not an ordered list then that's fine
10:21 solrodar URGENT suppliers must be senior to customers
10:21 solrodar who says all suppliers must be in the same class?
10:21 PeterL you don't seem to grasp the must pay first/can pay first difference
10:21 deedbot- [Daniel P. Barron] Free State Project Triggered - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/free-state-project-triggered/
10:22 PeterL well, it is up to the receiver to classify things
10:23 solrodar yes, so I'm simply saying that the receiver's contract should not presume any particular classification
10:24 solrodar whereas davout's post does appear to do so
10:24 BingoBoingo <solrodar> yes, so I'm simply saying that the receiver's contract should not presume any particular classification << The reciever may end up rejecting some claims by suppliers, but the MUST be *considered* first
10:25 solrodar considered yes, and possibly then downgraded to be at the same level as bettors?
10:26 mircea_popescu "if you didn't need to pay him as a supplier, fuck him". how's the receiver to justify this "downgrade" ?
10:27 solrodar because you still haven't shown why a non-urgent supplier should take priority over a customer
10:27 solrodar or why all suppliers are necessarily in the same class
10:27 mircea_popescu but ftr it's slowly dawning on me just how god damned ~HARD~ it is to speak in the forum. all sorts of separations, between descriptive and prescriptive, between time ; between causes and effects, between roles and hierarchies... jesus god how does anyone even keep it straight.
10:28 solrodar I deeply apologize
10:28 mircea_popescu solrodar i am not entertaining your concepts of "non-urgent", and so i won't be showing anything about them.
10:28 mircea_popescu they're not required by the model, and there's no indication they add justifiable complexity ; not to mention they're not even defined, or by all appearances definable.
10:29 mircea_popescu and yes, I don't intend to follow fiat practice in THIS particular respect : that it's always willing to add complexity for the sake of satisfying fee-fees.
10:29 mircea_popescu never, that.
10:29 solrodar well, if the receiver has discretion to reject claims then he also should have discretion to determine the seniority of claims
10:29 BingoBoingo solrodar: Are you familiar with the "mechanics lien"
10:29 solrodar it can be as complex or as non-complex as he wishes
10:30 solrodar BingoBoingo: yes
10:30 mircea_popescu why not have discretion to also determine the count of bitcoin in existence, while at it.
10:30 solrodar BingoBoingo: who are you suggesting has one in this case?
10:31 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo is this getting people to read up on the complex topic of patrimonial dispositions or prior art ?
10:31 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Both
10:32 mircea_popescu pretty cool.
10:33 BingoBoingo solrodar: I'm suggesting it as a rabbit hole to read moar on to understand how complex the matter of claims is, not strictly legally but morally
10:33 mircea_popescu you mean equitably.
10:33 mircea_popescu hence "court of equity".
10:34 BingoBoingo Aha
10:34 mircea_popescu lol davout while i'm the first friend of humor, or so i like to think, that two weeks tm can't stand there. it can readily be interpreted to mean forever, and that just can't be.
10:34 BingoBoingo that is an actual moral question
10:34 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo what's your definition of "moral" here ?
10:34 BingoBoingo morality is the just conduct of business
10:35 mircea_popescu rules of conduct are called broadly ethics.
10:35 BingoBoingo Sure
10:36 mircea_popescu how to act correctly (ethics) ; how to satisfy the will of gods (morals) ; how to run your business (equity).
10:36 solrodar BingoBoingo: indeed it is complex, and so if bettors have to take a haircut because mircea_popescu is senior, then that's fine, as long as there's a justification for it
10:36 solrodar "mircea_popescu says so, and you're an idiot" is not a justification
10:36 BingoBoingo solrodar: I'm not necessarily suggesting that
10:36 mircea_popescu actually, yes, it is.
10:37 mircea_popescu before we go back to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2014#792159
10:37 assbot Logged on 12-08-2014 02:20:21; TimSwanson: That's not how debates work
10:37 * danielpbarron nods
10:38 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Until I finish a religious tract Imma just treat satisfying the will of the gods as alternately a question of conduct and business
10:38 mircea_popescu aite then.
10:38 mircea_popescu methinks this may make you a jew.
10:39 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well If I really am a sunni I gotta take from the Jews and the Christians, because that's how history works
10:39 mircea_popescu that's a point.
10:40 BingoBoingo danielpbarron: Speaking of this topic, can you spin up a justification of Obesity being a Cardinal sin as if Man is created in God's image defiling oneself with obesity is akin to defiling God?
10:40 BingoBoingo danielpbarron: Or do I need a different species of scholarship for that
10:40 mircea_popescu i must say i'm pretty impressed with this darkcoin thing and with the chinese govt generally. a) no idiotic derpage a la "bitlicense" ; b) actually prosecute scammers.
10:40 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo gluttony.
10:40 mircea_popescu it is a cardinal sin already, no spinning needed.
10:41 PeterL BingoBoingo I think you nailed it, no more argument needed to vilify obeasts
10:41 danielpbarron BingoBoingo, indeed obesity leads to hell
10:41 mircea_popescu danielpbarron and what if they can't fit down the chute ?
10:41 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: If remixing things might as well escalate its cardinality
10:41 danielpbarron shows lack of self-control which The Bible requires of the saved
10:41 danielpbarron the path to destruction is broad
10:41 PeterL mircea_popescu then slice them into smaller pieces?
10:42 mircea_popescu i always thought "the path to destruction is broad" just gave measure of the argot prescience of the king james bible and it really means "the path to destruction is woman".
10:42 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> danielpbarron and what if they can't fit down the chute ? << Plop them on top of a chute and wait for the fold mold to liquefy them
10:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00042003 = 5.2084 BTC [+]
10:43 BingoBoingo eternity is a long time
10:43 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435825 << you ever saw someone do the verify thing with old style signatures ?
10:43 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 12:20:36; asciilifeform: also i would like to watch mp or anyone actually ~do~ the 'hand verify' thing.
10:43 danielpbarron Matthew 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
10:43 mircea_popescu i had the pleasure of a coupla of such nonsense back in the day.
10:44 mircea_popescu (for the curious, the way private sealed writs work in fiat court is, the presumed author is confronted with them. if he accepts them all is fine, if however he repudiates them the circus starts, because the case forks into a sub-case about whether the item is genuine or not, gotta have witnesses as to the writ, experts as to the writ, you can be there a month with the piece of paper.)
10:45 BingoBoingo danielpbarron: Also pls to not link my blog as my slave name.
10:46 mircea_popescu (and yes in that month i can do the fucking rsa exponentiation on paper three times over.)
10:46 danielpbarron you know your name is on the listing agreement for qntra right?
10:46 BingoBoingo danielpbarron: Sure, as a legacy thing
10:46 mircea_popescu as a legacy ?!
10:46 mircea_popescu you gonna get yourself a pinoy sunni name son ?
10:46 danielpbarron well i'd rather not list your blog at all if the requirement is to not use your name
10:46 BingoBoingo I don't mind it being used where necessary, but it is still a slave name
10:47 danielpbarron is it not the name your parents gave you/
10:47 BingoBoingo That my parents gave me and the fiat gang stole the title to
10:47 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> you gonna get yourself a pinoy sunni name son ? << Maybe
10:47 danielpbarron you should honor your parents, regardless of who else stole whatever
10:47 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you know he has a point tho, just because someone stole or didn't stole it, what's that to you ?
10:48 PeterL when you meet a girl at the bar, do you introduce yourself "Hi, I'm BingoBoingo"?
10:48 BingoBoingo ;;google "your name is toby"
10:48 gribble Your name is TOBY! What's your name? - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CpJpGF8lS8>; Whats your Name "Kunta Kinte" - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMPFQo5V-lA>; Kunta Kinte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunta_Kinte>
10:48 BingoBoingo <PeterL> when you meet a girl at the bar, do you introduce yourself "Hi, I'm BingoBoingo"? << It's an occasion to use the legacy identfier
10:48 mircea_popescu PeterL i knew a guy who would introduce himself to half drunk british roses as "hi, my name's pizda ma-tii!"
10:49 mircea_popescu sort-of romanian mark hunt.
10:49 BingoBoingo But Back when I did the bar thing I'd use different names at each bar generally
10:50 mircea_popescu "hi, i'm papalexandrorghios bingoboingoski"
10:50 BingoBoingo lol
10:50 mircea_popescu "honey, if you can say that outloud you're not drunk enough."
10:51 PeterL Me nephew has to say his name several times before any new acquaintances get it, my brother named him Tlazohtlalia
10:52 asciilifeform PeterL is an aztec ?!
10:52 PeterL yup
10:52 * BingoBoingo always though NOT using aliases at the bar was inviting unnecessary risk
10:52 PeterL (my sis-in-law is of Aztec heritage)
10:53 mircea_popescu so what's his mates call him ? tla ?
10:53 PeterL Tlazoh
10:53 PeterL sounds kindla like "klaw-zoe"
10:53 BingoBoingo See, lazlo is a solid bar alias
10:54 asciilifeform tlocelot !
10:54 mircea_popescu ha. don't you need a moustache to legally wear that name ?
10:54 BingoBoingo lol
10:55 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i don't use aliases even in promiscuity. everyone's "vampyre lord" and "celeste" and what the fuck not, i'm mircea popescu
10:55 mircea_popescu "wait, THAT IS YOUR REAL NAME?!?!?!" "yeah".
10:56 BingoBoingo But when you drink in the manner I am inclined to you gotta have something you can pronounce
10:56 BingoBoingo two syllables is too many
10:56 mircea_popescu at least if they had the fucking decency to be funny about it, lord derp and hurrserl and shit. but no, "chocolate".
10:57 jurov some germans insist to call me "georg" even without any substances involved. the original is apparently too hard
10:57 BingoBoingo Also the consonants have to be able to survive a prnounced slur
10:58 PeterL asciilifeform I just realized I answered your question wrong, I am not aztec, I'm good old English-American. My brother married into Aztec.
10:59 mircea_popescu jurov i always wondered where it comes from.
10:59 mircea_popescu (seems basically a slavonic version of george anyway)
10:59 jurov yes it's that
11:00 mircea_popescu well then not terribly off.
11:02 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435975 << non-cryptographic signatures are really 99+% 'promise' and precious little protocol.
11:02 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 14:43:36; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435825 << you ever saw someone do the verify thing with old style signatures ?
11:02 asciilifeform the 'prima facie' thing usually carries, afaik.
11:02 mircea_popescu just like everything else pre technology.
11:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform only in us courts that got very lazy meanwhile.
11:02 asciilifeform (and when it doesn't, result has little to do with finding of fact and much to do with game-theoretical game of 'chicken')
11:03 jurov was a while to get used to it. i wonder how was BingoBoingo keeping track of his nickname when it was different every time
11:03 mircea_popescu i suspect through a massive dose of not giving a shit.
11:03 asciilifeform BingoBoingo et al : making up new name for yerself every morning is crummy tradecraft.
11:03 asciilifeform ever heard of, e.g., 'legend', etc.
11:04 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435981 << i will not say that this is impossible, but i would actually like to watch somebody do it
11:04 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 14:46:05; mircea_popescu: (and yes in that month i can do the fucking rsa exponentiation on paper three times over.)
11:05 asciilifeform accurately.
11:05 mircea_popescu if i ever open a brothel here, we'll have a rsa night.
11:05 mircea_popescu naked sluts doing hard maths, what more can you ask of art.
11:06 jurov asciilifeform: as usual, your lawyer will just crudely reimplement rsa in excel
11:06 asciilifeform !s mental rsa
11:06 assbot 5 results for 'mental rsa' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mental+rsa
11:06 mircea_popescu better chance with the brothel.
11:06 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435987 << would somebody explain this to me
11:06 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 14:46:53; BingoBoingo: I don't mind it being used where necessary, but it is still a slave name
11:07 jurov it's simple, he transcended the slavery by referring to himself by his wot nick
11:08 asciilifeform what is being hidden, and from whom? e.g., everyone i've worked, done business with, etc. since i had a www, knew about it
11:08 asciilifeform this not only was not a problem, but arguably helped me to avoid becoming embroiled with various folks who were up to no good
11:09 jurov in other news, https://media.giphy.com/media/Ry8vYUztNpRfy/giphy.gif
11:09 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SYhg5w )
11:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think his plan to fight some derps doing black magic is not to squarely ignore them, but to DO THINGS to anti-magic their magic.
11:10 mircea_popescu which is perhaps not fully considered a plan.
11:17 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435837 << student exercise - prove that the 10 (usa) or 20 (eu) pogo garland will necessarily explode if they all enter cpu halt mode.
11:17 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 13:25:04; jurov: asciilifeform: if he is fine with serially connecting elements with wildly variable resistances to 300V, no wonder he's fine with many other interesting things :)
11:18 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435838 << classical telco. but the batteries were IN PARALLEL
11:18 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 13:27:29; *: BingoBoingo always imagined low power colo working off of DC straight from batteries
11:19 mircea_popescu eh for crying out loud, what is with this!
11:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform seriously, you can't protect a circuit from overvoltage, overcurrent and everything else ?
11:19 mircea_popescu "oh noes, the car will run into a wall!11"
11:19 mircea_popescu da fuck already.
11:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sure as hell you can
11:20 mircea_popescu so then what ?
11:20 asciilifeform it is called... regulated dc power supply
11:20 asciilifeform per box.
11:20 mircea_popescu sigh.
11:20 mircea_popescu this is even lulzier than the whole "can't move out of dc" thing.
11:20 mircea_popescu because this apparently is... can't move TO dc.
11:20 trinque !b2
11:20 trinque d'aw
11:21 mircea_popescu MUST USE CHINEZE BRIX
11:21 asciilifeform no.
11:21 asciilifeform but must use vregs.
11:21 mircea_popescu part and parcel of our attempts to you know, get out of hardware dependency of chinese\
11:21 mircea_popescu MUST USE THEIR BRIX!!11
11:21 asciilifeform and not rely on neigbouring boxes to drop your voltage, wtf
11:21 mircea_popescu "i want someone to make me a si foundry and i'll strangle anyone who even tries to make a power source!"
11:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: do you recall your article about african huts ?
11:22 mircea_popescu not as such ? :/
11:22 asciilifeform the one about how the monkeys never invented architecture in the sense of how-to-make-house-stand-up
11:22 mircea_popescu aha ?
11:23 asciilifeform it was more interesting even, it was about how they do not even see it as a thing
11:23 asciilifeform as in, 'your house is really same as my pile of straw, it must be, there is nothing else in the world'
11:23 mircea_popescu go on ?
11:25 asciilifeform well series circuit with loads that gotta get 5% of specced voltage is nutso.
11:25 asciilifeform and there is no reason to take my word for it, go, try.
11:25 asciilifeform i even brought you some pogos iirc.
11:26 asciilifeform take wire cutters, rip a diode bridge out of that argentinian shit pc from article, and have it..
11:26 asciilifeform a pair of wire cutters would suffice.
11:27 mircea_popescu i've been trying to follow this with the huts etc but it doesn't coallesce into a something.
11:27 asciilifeform it coalesces into there being arts mircea_popescu is - apparently - innocent of
11:27 asciilifeform but nevertheless exist.
11:27 mircea_popescu anyway, would it make you happier if he puts a transformer in between, takes it from 300 V 1 A to 4.5 V 60 A and then parallels that ?
11:28 mircea_popescu i guess he'll need to use thicker wires, but hey, if it'll make your impalement sense happy why not.
11:29 mircea_popescu the ~only point i made prior to the whole "way things are done!11" explosion was, that for the price of buying extension cords for all the shitty little bricks he can make a central power source himself.
11:29 davout http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435940 <<< fair'nuff
11:29 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 14:34:24; mircea_popescu: lol davout while i'm the first friend of humor, or so i like to think, that two weeks tm can't stand there. it can readily be interpreted to mean forever, and that just can't be.
11:30 mircea_popescu decentralization being not the answer, but the problem, in many applications. as seen here.
11:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: a correct way to 'de-chink' the pogo power source might be, e.g., to connect them all - in parallel - to old soviet car battery charger.
11:33 asciilifeform this would work for hundred years.
11:33 asciilifeform even comes with thick cable.
11:34 asciilifeform i have a massive dc supply (of, believe or not, ~british!~ circa '70s make) at my house, for this purpose.
11:37 PeterL maybe it is just my lack of electrical engineering knowledge, but it sounds like mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are saying to do the same thing, but won't agree with each other?
11:42 asciilifeform PeterL: nope.
11:42 asciilifeform PeterL: he suggested (i still can't tell if seriously!) to plug them in ~series~, like christmas lights, to a high voltage line.
11:43 asciilifeform so as to avoid the need for a) dozens of 'wall warts' or b) a high current dc power supply.
11:54 jurov actually, that would neatly solve the mystery of cascading failure of his raid setup
11:55 jurov if he had the drives powered in that way
11:57 asciilifeform jurov: i can't really picture him wiring up drives with his own hands, tho
11:57 jurov no, he just asked the slaves to, like he hih do danielpbarron
11:57 jurov *did ho
11:57 jurov eh damn
11:58 asciilifeform waiwut
11:58 BingoBoingo <jurov> was a while to get used to it. i wonder how was BingoBoingo keeping track of his nickname when it was different every time << nicknames attach to bars. If bar isn't frequented enough "hey you" workz
11:59 jurov asciilifeform: still talked in hypotheticals, i have no indication that actually happened
12:00 jurov but it's very likely that in absence of other opinions, dpb would actually try it
12:01 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform i think his plan to fight some derps doing black magic is not to squarely ignore them, but to DO THINGS to anti-magic their magic. << Oh it's not a plan. It's noise
12:01 BingoBoingo for aesthetics
~ 51 minutes ~
12:52 mircea_popescu PeterL> maybe it is just my lack of electrical engineering knowledge, but it sounds like mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are saying to do the same thing, but won't agree with each other? << you have nfi how often this happens.
12:52 mircea_popescu jurov> actually, that would neatly solve the mystery of cascading failure of his raid setup << fu georg!
12:59 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> PeterL: he suggested (i still can't tell if seriously!) to plug them in ~series~ << no dude. he said "see if your isp is willing to give you a c block / upgrade your connection. buy a coupla bridges of 32 or 64, make a high voltage rectifier thingee, and power a bunch of boxes" then you went all crazy about how series omaygerd! and i spent the rest of the interval poking fun at it. this is an exact para
12:59 mircea_popescu llel of how mp said "^ for the record, i've been divesting, if slowly." and you spent two days going on about 0 value bitcoin, then the interval hence being butthurt that there's no 0 value bitcoin.
12:59 mircea_popescu I'm not necessarily against taking mp's lines and looking in all the folds carefully ; but it's a little silly to do this run off with what i think an angle might have been, damn everything else.
12:59 mircea_popescu moderation in all things eh.
13:01 mircea_popescu uncharitably i might also observe that other than "i say so!" "it's how it's done" "reddit would agree", relatively little actual arguments were brought, which is why the task of poking fun was so easy/the experience so frustrating.
13:01 asciilifeform l0lzies
13:02 mircea_popescu to summarize said argument attempts : line 1. "high voltage is dangerous" "mkay, throw out your tv" ; line 2 : "you will have to protect the line" "yes you will" ; line 3 : "this was done historically" "yes it was".
13:05 BingoBoingo !up nh
13:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you are missing the key piece
13:05 asciilifeform where you are relying on adjacent loads in aggregate to actually regulate your v
13:05 mircea_popescu you don't HAVE to be tho.
13:05 asciilifeform this did not even work well for motherfucking arc lights in 1880
13:05 mircea_popescu you might be, i guess.
13:06 mircea_popescu in parallel you're relying on same loads to regulate your... current.
13:06 asciilifeform one of the reason we have the profusion of bulky chinese wall warts, etc. is the extreme sensitivity of semiconductor to supply v
13:06 mircea_popescu big whoop.
13:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: NOBODY REGULATES CURRENT
13:06 asciilifeform wtf
13:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and you know this for a fact ? maybe the profusion is just because people like encapsulated things.
13:06 asciilifeform omfg
13:07 asciilifeform i have no wordz.
13:07 mircea_popescu must you scream ?
13:07 asciilifeform aha!
13:07 asciilifeform mmmmmggmgmg
13:07 mircea_popescu lol.
13:07 mircea_popescu tell me this : if you have two 1 ohm items in parallel, at 1 volt ea, what current flows through the main ??
13:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: adds up to 1/2 ohm load res
13:10 asciilifeform so 2a
13:10 asciilifeform why ?
13:10 mircea_popescu win. and if i add a third, what happens to the current ?
13:11 mircea_popescu don't tell me it upregulates to 3a i might fall over.
13:11 asciilifeform regulates?!!!!!
13:11 mircea_popescu lol. I SEE WHAT WAS IMPORTANT!!1
13:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: when you plug in one toaster into your mains, and then another, and then a third, how many times the current ?
13:12 asciilifeform what in this joke am in not grasping ?
13:12 mircea_popescu i dunno.
13:12 asciilifeform yes, moar load, moar current, newz at 11!
13:12 mircea_popescu anyway, methinks this horse is beaten through.
13:13 BingoBoingo Screw it, upregulates to 160A because it also has to kickstart the flywheel
13:14 mircea_popescu regularly.
13:14 PeterL AC runs motor which spins flywheel which pwers homopolar generator giving DC current
13:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform speaking of plugging into mains, you know that if you bought a bunch of power strips and powered your entire house out of the same socket it'd eventually a) start a fire ; b) pop the fuse ; c) all of the above ?
13:15 mircea_popescu seems pretty dangerous this could happen and also should not be possibru!
13:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how many amps to put on a single breaker is typically not 'rocket surgery' and printed thereupon
13:16 asciilifeform (yes this does not help some folks...)
13:17 asciilifeform in usa, typical residential mains socket (and its associated wire) is rated for 15a.
13:17 asciilifeform in commercial bldg - 20, sometimes 30.
13:17 asciilifeform i have nfi re eu.
13:18 asciilifeform and less so even re: no es pais pobre.
13:19 mircea_popescu aha.
13:20 mircea_popescu but i had no idea that things could pop if you use parallel! or that you could possibly need a breaker! or things.
13:20 mircea_popescu not like it's cereal amirite ?
13:22 mircea_popescu actually speaking of dc motors, i wonder if you could get a hamster to wheel-power a pogo.
13:22 mircea_popescu what do the things actually draw, half a W or something ?
13:22 PeterL how much power does pogo take?
13:22 asciilifeform PeterL: <10W without disk
13:22 mircea_popescu o then nm.
13:23 asciilifeform measure it yerself, this is trivial
13:23 mircea_popescu i had but apparently lost a degree of magnitude on the way.
13:23 asciilifeform happenz!
13:23 PeterL use some exercicles to power it, for obeasts to put their fat to work?
13:24 asciilifeform or use a wick.
13:24 mircea_popescu would make a pretty great blog topic, you know ? for the numerous bloggers among us constantly looking for stuff to feed the woodchipper with.
13:24 asciilifeform (anyone recall the ancient persian execution method, with fat wicks?!)
13:24 mircea_popescu prolly instafamous on various social media turds, too.
13:24 mircea_popescu "here's me exercycling to power my blog"
13:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc this is in herodotus?
13:24 asciilifeform or maybe not
13:24 asciilifeform hm
13:24 mircea_popescu i think they were gilding things with potatoes
13:24 mircea_popescu (IN SERIES!)
13:26 mircea_popescu i guess i'm lucky to be in an engineering-internet. were i in a scholarly-internet it'd be all "mp, potato comes from new world therefore everything is invalid!"
13:26 asciilifeform i thought this was known to all?
13:26 asciilifeform potatl!
13:27 mircea_popescu mno, the origins are batata and papa (still used as originally, to distinguish sweet and plain varieties, here)
13:27 asciilifeform and the crackpot archaeological thing re gilding concerned egyptians, not persians
13:27 mircea_popescu no such wonder as potatl.
13:28 asciilifeform and obviously not potato but mineral battery (which is supposed to have been found, in some suggestive fragment, according to aficionados)
13:28 mircea_popescu aha.
13:29 asciilifeform no potatl ?! the aztec nationalists lied !??!111
13:29 asciilifeform what next, no severed head basketball ?!111
13:29 mircea_popescu the spanish say it's from taino.
13:31 asciilifeform hm.
13:40 phf seems like we just need different signing modes, one of them being, "usenet text" or somesuch, ignores repeat whitespace, only recognizes alphanum and top row symbols, signature in the form, "in the year of our republic such and such i honorable citizen with these two primes which are my identity and my blood indicate the validity of the above text, [primes] [signature ciphertext]"
13:42 phf can then manually verify by doing hand rsa. primes and ciphertext are base 10 for human convenience
13:43 phf other signing method is a microdot pattern, you know, to cover all the bases
13:44 asciilifeform l0l
~ 26 minutes ~
14:11 kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435731 < not at all - i think there is some merit in the argument in the sense that bitbet will hardly survive the upset its going through now (which is actually devaluating the asset to be liquidated)
14:11 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 04:21:00; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432214 << mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: this was all very rude and uncalled for, my apologies
14:13 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545
14:13 assbot Loper OS » Vectored Signatures, or the Elements of a Possible V-Algebra. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pQWk4X )
14:13 gribble The operation succeeded.
14:16 phf oh my a fresh loper post!
14:17 asciilifeform l0l
14:17 kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435802 < generally in favour - perhaps the 'actual assets' need a more tight spec?
14:17 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 11:13:11; deedbot-: [fr.anco.is] BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent - http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-formal-application-and-letter-of-intent/
14:17 kakobrekla davout ^^
14:23 * asciilifeform prepares a bucket for mircea_popescu to barf into after he reads the 'algebra' piece.
14:27 trinque feeds list
14:27 trinque deedbot-: feeds list
14:27 deedbot- Feeds:
14:27 deedbot- 1. http://trilema.com/feed/rss/
14:27 deedbot- 2. http://qntra.net/feed/
14:27 deedbot- 3. http://www.contravex.com/feed/rss
14:27 deedbot- 4. http://nosuchlabs.com/rss
14:27 deedbot- 5. https://bitbet.us/rss/betsbetsbig/
14:27 deedbot- 6. http://explo.yt/feed/rss2
14:27 deedbot- 7. http://fr.anco.is/feed/
14:27 deedbot- 8. http://www.btcalpha.com/feed/
14:27 deedbot- 9. http://cascadianhacker.com/index.xml
14:27 deedbot- 10. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/feed/
14:27 deedbot- 11. http://www.dianacoman.com/feed/
14:27 deedbot- 12. http://danielpbarron.com/feed/
14:29 trinque deedbot-: feeds add http://www.loper-os.org/?feed=rss2
14:29 assbot Loper OS ... ( http://bit.ly/1pQYG3Q )
14:29 deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/?feed=rss2 added.
14:30 deedbot- [Loper OS] Practical Blockchain Telegraphy. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490
14:30 deedbot- [Loper OS] Phuctor Broke Several RSA Keys. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1504
14:30 deedbot- [Loper OS] The Phuctored and the Phucked - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1526
14:30 deedbot- [Loper OS] MPI sans the mud. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533
14:30 deedbot- [Loper OS] Yes, you can still get these. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1539
14:30 deedbot- [Loper OS] Vectored Signatures, or the Elements of a Possible V-Algebra. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545
14:31 asciilifeform l0l
14:37 trinque Not only are there times when one would like to seal a payload with a caveat of one kind or another, but presently we have no means of conveying disapproval – other than by refraining from sealing. << check it out, a wrath bit
14:40 phf geek code for vpatches
14:54 mod6 ummm
14:54 mod6 this seal vector thing is pretty cool.
14:56 PeterL how would v resolve patches with both "trust" signature by one party and "distrust" from another party? I suppose that would be another knob to turn in v settings?
14:58 mod6 not sure yet.
14:59 mod6 anyway, interesting concept.
~ 20 minutes ~
15:20 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436249 << this is not really intended to function on its own, beyond 'only press +trust-sealed patches'
15:20 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 18:56:27; PeterL: how would v resolve patches with both "trust" signature by one party and "distrust" from another party? I suppose that would be another knob to turn in v settings?
15:21 asciilifeform but rather it is is more for scenarios that may arise in the dark future, when, say, it becomes necessary to purge material from a disgraced lord, and somehow not burn the world down in a chain reaction while so doing
15:21 asciilifeform but the gedankenexperiment of course offers no simple answer to this. just a possible component of one.
15:23 asciilifeform my internal emulated mircea_popescu has actually convinced me that this whole thing is probably a nonstarter.
15:24 asciilifeform and he is rarely mistaken.
15:24 PeterL why does alf-mp not like it?
15:24 asciilifeform because, in brief, 'out of band'
15:24 asciilifeform and 'meta'
15:25 asciilifeform and 'mechanizing that which must remain human'
15:32 asciilifeform the problem i was trying to solve is that it remains painfully underspecified exactly ~what is communicated by the act of sealing~
15:33 asciilifeform this has been itching in my head ever since the 'manual gardening' and 'regrind' thread
15:34 asciilifeform in particular, i believe that satoshi's turd is an abomination and is barely fit for any use at all, and ought to be discarded as soon as a politically reliable alternative exists - but there is no way to infer this from what patches i have signed.
15:34 asciilifeform nor any way to convey doubt about meaning or provenance, other than human-readable commentary
15:35 asciilifeform !s sirens silence
15:35 assbot 2 results for 'sirens silence' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sirens+silence
15:36 asciilifeform and that.
15:36 asciilifeform and yes, internal-mp says 'stop trying to finesse the basic use case of the forum, don't take the rifle fishing'
15:37 PeterL one byte commentary is easier to package with payload, rather than trying to reference commentary elsewhere
15:41 asciilifeform understand, i was looking for ~the~ decomposition of the hypothetical vector.
15:41 asciilifeform if it is not obvious that this is the only meaninngful decomposition (and it thus far is ~not~ to me!) than the gedankenexperiment fails.
~ 17 minutes ~
15:59 asciilifeform my internal mp also says 'just because you have a pistol which knows how to fire bullets at people you don't like, it does not follow that there must also exist an antipistol which sucks out bullets from people you like'
15:59 asciilifeform he also says 'intellectualizing is evil, fuck a turnip today for good health'
~ 15 minutes ~
16:15 mod6 interesting thought tho
~ 15 minutes ~
16:30 trinque asciilifeform │ he also says 'intellectualizing is evil, fuck a turnip today for good health' << l0l
~ 46 minutes ~
17:17 mircea_popescu i've just finished rewiring this set of xmas lights to work in parallel
17:17 mircea_popescu i already am feeling the blessings of engineeringshnu upon my humble abode.
17:18 mircea_popescu did you know leds are actually digital equipments ?
17:20 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436207 << is it me or is phf slowly catching up on republican humor
17:20 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 17:43:18; phf: other signing method is a microdot pattern, you know, to cover all the bases
17:20 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436209 << the other view being that proving that we can do something no one else can or could do will on the contrary, make this asset as well as all other assets more valuable.
17:20 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 18:11:44; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435731 < not at all - i think there is some merit in the argument in the sense that bitbet will hardly survive the upset its going through now (which is actually devaluating the asset to be liquidated)
17:21 mircea_popescu it won't make specific forms of derpage tolerable going forward, also, but there was no provision to protect that stuff anyway.
17:24 mircea_popescu "The latter act conveys very little useful information, and no permanent sealed record remains of the effort taken to actually understand the patch. This is a Bad Thing" << the thing with this asciilifeform is that on the surface i feel very moved by the notion ; but upon examination it seems to devolve into a sort of enumerating badness ?
17:25 mircea_popescu but the vector is interesting.
17:29 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436219 << not at all, i think it's a step in the right direction. i think it also needs more thinking/discussion, but anyway.
17:29 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 18:23:36; *: asciilifeform prepares a bucket for mircea_popescu to barf into after he reads the 'algebra' piece.
17:34 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436264 << really the problem is that it adds unwarranted complexity. so now we have more bits, yay. do they do anything ? notrly. well if you're going to hire a fortune teller, hire the cheapest not the best. but this aside - the problem you raise is very much a problem, and altogether this thing will have to be worked on moar.
17:34 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 19:34:15; asciilifeform: in particular, i believe that satoshi's turd is an abomination and is barely fit for any use at all, and ought to be discarded as soon as a politically reliable alternative exists - but there is no way to infer this from what patches i have signed.
17:36 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436273 << your internal mp is actually, after years of practice, getting pretty good.
17:36 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 19:59:21; asciilifeform: my internal mp also says 'just because you have a pistol which knows how to fire bullets at people you don't like, it does not follow that there must also exist an antipistol which sucks out bullets from people you like'
17:40 asciilifeform i change his oil and polish gears every day !
17:40 asciilifeform he'd better be good.
17:42 mircea_popescu lol
17:43 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436279 << recent units are actually ~addressable~
17:43 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 21:18:58; mircea_popescu: did you know leds are actually digital equipments ?
17:44 mircea_popescu next they'll be able to ddos.
17:44 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436285 << enumerating ~belief~
17:44 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 21:24:35; mircea_popescu: "The latter act conveys very little useful information, and no permanent sealed record remains of the effort taken to actually understand the patch. This is a Bad Thing" << the thing with this asciilifeform is that on the surface i feel very moved by the notion ; but upon examination it seems to devolve into a sort of enumerating badness ?
17:45 mircea_popescu it is isn't it.
17:45 asciilifeform aha.
17:45 mircea_popescu the totality of thoughts thought is a legitimate application of pen to paper, is it not.
17:45 asciilifeform so no protocol is claimed, it is explicitly a promise.
17:45 asciilifeform but the application calls for it imho.
17:45 mircea_popescu be they what they may be, they are what they are and so it goes.
17:46 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436287 << the thing is not meant to be adopted as is (for one thing, there is no ready orifice for it to climb into atm)
17:46 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 21:29:18; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436219 << not at all, i think it's a step in the right direction. i think it also needs more thinking/discussion, but anyway.
17:46 * mircea_popescu intends to allow some dust to settle on this.
17:46 mircea_popescu hey, it works to discern wine, why not here.
17:47 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436289 << originally when i wrote this down some months ago on paper i had a very 'cheap fortuneteller', 4 bits
17:47 assbot Logged on 18-03-2016 21:34:13; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436264 << really the problem is that it adds unwarranted complexity. so now we have more bits, yay. do they do anything ? notrly. well if you're going to hire a fortune teller, hire the cheapest not the best. but this aside - the problem you raise is very much a problem, and altogether this thing will have to be worked on moar.
17:47 asciilifeform at any rate all 'v' aficionados are encouraged to read, and think.
17:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform : 0, 1, inf. if not one bit, then why not make headers, in ascii ?
17:47 mircea_popescu #This thing is made by me and it sucks but doesn't lie.
17:48 asciilifeform well, i originally wanted to turn it into a prime and embed as exponent !
17:48 mircea_popescu #This thing is made by drepper, and while it doesn't per se suck, it very likely lies.
17:48 asciilifeform the other thing is that compactness forces one to think about the essentials.
17:49 mircea_popescu to date every experiment in forcing people to think has resulted in broken tools.
17:49 asciilifeform the set of things that usefully belong in there is very, very finite.
17:49 mircea_popescu you know the joke with the police station ?
17:49 asciilifeform hm?
17:49 mircea_popescu after ro joins eu, they try to improve the quality of police force. send psychologists to test the policemen
17:49 mircea_popescu one of the tests involves one of those boxes with shapes cut into the side and the actual shapes made out of wood outside
17:50 mircea_popescu the results - "1% of the policemen are intelligent, 99% of policemen are strong."
17:50 asciilifeform ah!
17:50 * asciilifeform heard in another form
17:50 asciilifeform but same.
17:50 mircea_popescu "forces one to think" usually works like that - discovers just how many strongmen are there.
17:50 asciilifeform and yes, this is largely true.
17:50 asciilifeform but does not excuse us from the thinking.
17:51 mircea_popescu sure.
17:57 asciilifeform i ~would~ like to actually discover what the equivalence classes are.
~ 1 hours 59 minutes ~
19:57 BingoBoingo https://archive.is/ndE13
~ 30 minutes ~
20:27 deedbot- [Qntra] Hulk Hogan Wins "Revenge Porn" Suit Against Gawker Media - http://qntra.net/2016/03/hulk-hogan-wins-revenge-porn-suit-against-gawker-media/
~ 48 minutes ~
21:15 BingoBoingo Justice https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/928311
21:15 assbot A deathfat coworker is losing a leg because of me. | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1UbtNUM )
21:22 BingoBoingo https://i.sli.mg/TBBvO3.jpg
21:22 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ubu8Xy )
21:25 BingoBoingo !up ryan-c
~ 28 minutes ~
21:53 danielpbarron a fat picker?? mega-surprise that went on for more than two weeks.
21:53 BingoBoingo UPDATED http://qntra.net/2016/03/hulk-hogan-wins-revenge-porn-suit-against-gawker-media/
21:53 assbot Hulk Hogan Wins "Revenge Porn" Suit Against Gawker Media | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1pzGagp )
21:54 BingoBoingo danielpbarron: surprising yes, but ADA, resonable accomodation, etc
~ 17 minutes ~
22:11 BingoBoingo In other Gawker Media today from their longest tenured socialist agitator https://archive.is/ILB36
~ 26 minutes ~
22:38 BingoBoingo !up joecool
22:39 joecool BingoBoingo: thanks but i *could* do that if i had much to say at the moment
22:39 mircea_popescu gotta say i admire your patience with the gawker stuff.
22:39 BingoBoingo you're welcome
22:39 asciilifeform yeah my dosimeter maxes out in ~30sec
22:39 joecool how is everyone? been a while since i frequented here
22:39 joecool i read parts of the logs from time to time
22:40 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: You gotta remember at one point I was able to appreciate the sports stuff that didn't suck for a while. Now I just drink tears as it tears itself appart.
22:41 mircea_popescu i guess huh.
22:41 mircea_popescu in other news i just watched the most ridiculous idiocy ever. i'm talking "robot king kong from outer space" level here.
22:41 BingoBoingo Oh?
22:41 mircea_popescu ;;google metropolitan film
22:42 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: someone's gotta take a hit for the team
22:43 mircea_popescu written/directed by one whit stillman. which in itself is amusing, like amateur pornographers making vhs tapes with cardboard credits reading Rick Steele or some shit.
22:43 asciilifeform 'In an apartment on Manhattan a couple of friends from the New York upper-class meet almost every night to talk about social mobility, play bridge and discuss Fourier's socialism; the cynic Nick, the philosophical Charlie, party girl Sally and austenite Audrey. They are joined by Tom. His background is much simpler and he is critical of their way of life. But he finds a soul mate in Audrey, who without his knowledge falls in l
22:43 asciilifeform ove with him. '
22:43 mircea_popescu anyway, it has everything, including a fucktard who proposes to name themselves "urban haute bourgeoisie"
22:43 mircea_popescu chiefly because the ustards are too fucking dumb to even comprehend unintentional selfbattery.
22:43 asciilifeform reads like a demented version of mircea_popescu's 'asylum' ?!
22:44 mircea_popescu i surmise that would be fair.
22:44 mircea_popescu very demented.
22:44 mircea_popescu it's seriously worth seeing just to see what i think of us "upper crust".
22:44 mircea_popescu perhaps better appreciate my disdain for alf's lizzards.
22:45 asciilifeform but no, see, these are merely the ablative reactive armour plating for the real lizards!1111
22:45 mircea_popescu yaya.
22:45 mircea_popescu they're 20somethings who seriously party dressed.
22:46 * asciilifeform has nfi, does not own a torch long enough to cut through the ten layers of wall between him and even nearest window from which lizards might be seen when the planets align.
22:46 mircea_popescu also the whole cast is INCREDIBLY inept at reading.
22:47 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> they're 20somethings who seriously party dressed. << In the US, the hamplanet hazard means 20 somethings gotta party dressed lest people get triggered of ham-raped
22:47 mircea_popescu which is unfortunate, seeing how the whole thing's one huge monologue.
22:47 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: decode plox ?
22:48 mircea_popescu "Whit Stillman was born in 1952 and raised in Cornwall in upstate New York, the son of a impoverished débutante from Philadelphia and a Democratic politician from Washington D.C."
22:48 mircea_popescu fucking hell that's his real name.
22:48 mircea_popescu and his real life.
22:48 asciilifeform speaking of BingoBoingo's horror shows, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_entrapment#/media/File:OSHA_grain_entrapment_illustration.jpg is interesting and brings to mind a beloved childhood physics text
22:48 assbot Grain entrapment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PhQnTb )
22:48 mircea_popescu how the fuck did these beached whales survive pre wikitwittereddit i'll never know.
22:49 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Well, with the poor filter for keeping out undesirables USian 20 somethings are burdened with, nudity invites circus freak disaster
22:51 BingoBoingo Basically, Beetus Bitch Betty and her fold mold scare you USians into a clothed state
22:52 mircea_popescu eh bull.
22:52 asciilifeform where is any of this a thing ?!
22:52 mircea_popescu i have nfi.
22:52 asciilifeform must be a midwest plague
22:52 asciilifeform because it isn't here
22:52 asciilifeform and we have ten thousand plagues.
22:52 asciilifeform but not it.
22:53 mircea_popescu i do not recall a single instance of a nude or nude-tolerant place where fat people voluntarily attempted to participate.
22:53 asciilifeform aha
22:53 asciilifeform one rarely even sees them on streets
22:53 mircea_popescu perhaps i don't do enough renaissance faires / biker conventions / camping / whatever
22:53 asciilifeform i have nfi where they go, perhaps specially designated leprosoria
23:06 gribble Metropolitan (1990 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_(1990_film)>; Metropolitan (1990) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100142/>; Whit Stillman's 'Metropolitan' 25 Years Later: How it Bec | Indiewire: <http://www.indiewire.com/article/whit-stillmans-metropolitan-25-years-later-how-it-become-a-surprise-indie-hit-20150806>
23:06 asciilifeform l0l i think this is a record
23:07 mircea_popescu what ?
23:07 asciilifeform gribble delay
23:07 mircea_popescu o ya
23:07 asciilifeform ~25m
23:09 BingoBoingo ;;goxlag
23:09 gribble Error: "goxlag" is not a valid command.
23:09 asciilifeform l0l
~ 32 minutes ~
23:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00042066 = 8.4973 BTC [+]
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