Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-05-30 | 2015-06-01 → ↓
00:53 decimation asciilifeform: what confuses me is that the processblock messages absolutely come from a particular node
00:53 decimation but looking at my iptraf monitor, there are several nodes connected at once, and traffic seems to originate from a particular node in a somewhat random way
00:54 decimation so I don't understand how you could identify a particular 'bastard block' message as coming from a particular node without added debug statements
01:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8782 @ 0.00033296 = 2.9241 BTC [-]
01:05 decimation I added said debug and am gonna watch it overnight
~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~
02:32 BingoBoingo https://imgur.com/a/nJJCU/noscript
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02:53 BingoBoingo Diabeetus https://i.imgur.com/0QljRfa.jpg
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03:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93600 @ 0.00032681 = 30.5894 BTC [-]
03:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.0003191 = 19.7523 BTC [-]
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04:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 260100 @ 0.00031512 = 81.9627 BTC [-] {7}
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04:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13650 @ 0.00032246 = 4.4016 BTC [+]
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05:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14660 @ 0.00032246 = 4.7273 BTC [+]
05:21 BingoBoingo !up gmaxwell
~ 24 minutes ~
05:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.00031218 = 25.7549 BTC [-] {2}
05:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111828 @ 0.00031011 = 34.679 BTC [-] {5}
05:54 cazalla winter tmw :\
~ 33 minutes ~
06:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41800 @ 0.00030791 = 12.8706 BTC [-]
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06:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yep.
06:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 230300 @ 0.00031052 = 71.5128 BTC [+] {4}
~ 36 minutes ~
07:31 cazalla http://rt.com/usa/263473-nyc-subway-manspreading-arrests/
07:36 mircea_popescu heh.
07:36 mircea_popescu the article misrepresents what's going on. this is quite likely "broken windows" ideology.
07:36 mircea_popescu apparently ny has a major problem with gangs.
07:37 cazalla "According to reports, the NYPD has allegedly issued more than 1,400 summons for manspreading this year"
07:38 cazalla that's some gang
07:46 chetty jeeze next they will arrest folks for taking up too much space cause they are fat ..hmm maybe not such a bad idea :P
07:50 mircea_popescu cazalla nah it's just, as the gulf between society and government widens, the ability of society to maintain social order decays. people start taking it upon themselves to provide for their own security, the most vulnerable groups (foreign language speaking, poor immigrants) overstot, which induces negative reactions in the public,
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07:51 mircea_popescu which makes the police become more aggressive which increases the perceived need of the plebs to act tough,
07:51 mircea_popescu which spirals into doom.
07:51 mircea_popescu by now everyone's a gang of one.
07:52 cazalla and the poor bastards just needed a bit of room for their balls
07:52 mircea_popescu which is a sad state of affairs given the history of new york
07:52 mircea_popescu that city exists primarily because of its renowedly incredible ability to diffuse social tension.
07:52 cazalla article mentions the homicide rate is up so that fits
07:53 chetty apparently its up all over the US, more evidence of social breakdown
07:54 mircea_popescu ability probably typified by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc9-rYBOS5w
07:55 mircea_popescu but nobody's going aaaaaaaa! anymore.
07:57 mircea_popescu in other news at 10mn hits / 7mn pages may 2015 stands as trilema's largest month. tananana.
08:01 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-05-2015#1148758 << da fuck is that omg.
08:01 assbot Logged on 30-05-2015 21:24:11; BingoBoingo: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ud7KxL0u--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/q07zwqccwnzkinanp8bg.jpg
08:02 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-05-2015#1148782 << there is a possibility that your daughters may have foond their way by themselves, especially if they be tall dwarvettes.
08:02 assbot Logged on 30-05-2015 23:09:48; funkenstein_: if you was a dwarf i would send thanks by sending my daughters over
08:03 mircea_popescu so take heart of ironwood my friendly lumberjack.
08:06 mircea_popescu https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=joshua+dratel&complete=0&prmd=ivns&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w << and i see it as the 2nd result, too.
08:08 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148790 << asylum, lol
08:08 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 00:38:16; williamdunne: Anyone got some good reading material to suggest? Novels preferred
08:08 cazalla page 4 on down under google and with that, zzz
08:09 mircea_popescu nn
08:11 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << i would like to see a patch which maintains VALUED list of other nodes.
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08:11 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 02:04:22; asciilifeform: (one of my early, unreleased experiments had a disconnector that tripped when we learn that the node we're syncing from is spewing orphans above threshold. perhaps time to bring this back ?)
08:11 mircea_popescu with a time decay, with a penalty for sending bad blocks and a positive for sending good blocks at a good speed.
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08:12 mircea_popescu say something like : every bad block received, -10 points. every minute where connection is kept at 80% of its allocated bw or over, 1 point. every hour score decays 1% towards 0, be it either positive or negative.
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08:14 mircea_popescu then it could allocate 1/n of its available bandwidth to each available peer, and disconnect peer under a threshold
08:15 mircea_popescu ideally bw_threshold, dc_threshold, bad_block_penalty, per_minute_salary could all be settable via config file.
08:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://nosuchlabs.com/dupes << useful.
08:18 mircea_popescu i don't think anyone had before a way to "check all the keys i've signed" on one page.
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08:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60890 @ 0.00031795 = 19.36 BTC [+] {2}
08:20 mircea_popescu can it somehow be structured to serve that purpose ? as a dump it's ok for now because it's short, but by the time the entire db is processed it will be a gb or some shit. maybe make it a list of entries of the format "name fragment", "first 32 characters in base 64'd modulus"
08:20 mircea_popescu where name fragment is a 32 character match across the users textfield
08:22 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148870 << imagine that a windows user managed to pull a disappearing act.
08:22 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 03:01:54; decimation: it's amusing that satoshi re-implemented MFC classes in his little util.* stuff. he was definitely a winblows VC++ guy
08:22 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148873 << for the record, i suspect these may well be two different items.
08:22 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 03:03:55; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu this is yet another attribute of the animal we are hunting (the yet-undiscovered diddled pgp client.) almost certainly it shows the claimed fp rather than the actual.
08:23 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148879 << this is a complicated problem, in part because the spec isn't terribru good.
08:23 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 03:05:20; decimation: imma clearly label the particles of shit in yer wine
08:31 mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats
08:31 gribble Current Blocks: 358801 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 46 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 7 hours, 43 minutes, and 13 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47427773469.2 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.82685
~ 50 minutes ~
09:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79653 @ 0.00032505 = 25.8912 BTC [+] {2}
09:26 mircea_popescu and the harmonic series has, of course, no closed form solution
09:26 mircea_popescu bloody fucking useless math of this world i swear.
09:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85925 @ 0.00032359 = 27.8045 BTC [-]
09:35 fluffypony oh mircea_popescu you're famouze
09:35 mircea_popescu i am ?
09:35 fluffypony and apparently Gavin can't spell your name
09:35 fluffypony http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37xxmj/gavin_is_being_too_divisive_core_devs_need_to/crqsf4l?context=3
09:36 fluffypony "Mirceau Popescue"
09:36 mircea_popescu lmao
09:36 mircea_popescu what's with all the extra vowels people seem to need ? am i too swedish or something ?
09:36 fluffypony Haagen-Popescue
09:36 mircea_popescu hwrothwar hwrothwarsson ?
09:36 fluffypony lol
~ 35 minutes ~
10:11 williamdunne mircea_popescu: Any pro tips for while I'm in Bucharest?
10:12 mircea_popescu don't use the scummy people trying to trick tourists into using their "cabs" at the airport ; insist the masseuse actually sucks you off ; avoid street food
10:13 williamdunne Actually on that note, and particularly good places to eat?
10:14 mircea_popescu i could never stand bucharest. i think i spent a total of a week there in my entire life. shittiest town in romania. so i really dunno.
10:15 williamdunne Ah, fair nuff
10:15 mircea_popescu you there on business or what ?
10:15 williamdunne mYeah
10:15 mircea_popescu then do what i always did, have locals pick
10:16 mircea_popescu it's not that decent and even excellent places don't exist - they certainly do. but romanians are unreliable and southerners are unreliable ^ 2, and so they keep changing.
10:17 williamdunne Kinda looking forward to it, only gonna be there for a few days though.
10:18 mircea_popescu the old town is not so bad.
10:19 mircea_popescu unfortunately, inhabited.
10:21 williamdunne Just did a google, yeah looks like there's some kinda cool architecture there
10:22 fluffypony [16:19:03] <+mircea_popescu>unfortunately, inhabited. <- it's like what I say about America: beautiful country, the biggest problem with it are the Americans
10:23 williamdunne A country of that size can't exactly *not* have beautiful parts
10:23 mircea_popescu plebs infesting the world are the biggest problem everywhere pretty much, except china
10:23 mircea_popescu and even in china / se asia it's becoming an issue
10:23 williamdunne "Damn Scotts, they ruin Scottland"
10:23 mircea_popescu williamdunne sure, go to brasov :)
10:23 mircea_popescu fluffypony how about south africa ?
10:23 fluffypony so much space that you don't have to run into anyone :-P
10:24 mircea_popescu lol right.
10:24 williamdunne mircea_popescu: I'll see if I can. If I can convince someone to bugger off with me for the day I will, but only there for a few days :/
10:25 * williamdunne sees horde of 70,000 tourists preparing to descend upon fluffypony
10:25 fluffypony lol
10:26 mircea_popescu williamdunne only about 100 miles or so, shouldb't be more than a coupla hours.
10:26 mircea_popescu and you get to cross the mointains
10:26 williamdunne Guessing there's a train or summin?
10:27 mircea_popescu sure.
10:29 williamdunne If I do get there, anything in particular I should be doing?
10:31 mircea_popescu in brasov ?
10:32 mircea_popescu well check out piata sfatului, maybe go on the skylift thing
10:33 mircea_popescu sinaia (the old royal winter residence) is also nearby
10:34 williamdunne Sounds good to me, see if I can get that done the day before Prague
~ 16 minutes ~
10:51 williamdunne More ponzi fail:
10:51 williamdunne http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37ye6d/major_scammer_alert_cloudtd/
~ 45 minutes ~
11:36 williamdunne Guessing bitbet.us is against the blocksize increase
11:46 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148942 << not an accurate picture of what it is. what we have is a list of keys that share one or more public modulus. nothing to do with signatures
11:46 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 12:18:33; mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone had before a way to "check all the keys i've signed" on one page.
11:47 mircea_popescu uh
11:47 mircea_popescu so how come jurov and old mpex keys are in there ?
11:47 mircea_popescu i assumed it was because he had signed them ?
11:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: old mpex is an easy one - not all of the moduli changed
11:48 asciilifeform (recall, there is no 'changing' on sks, only repeat upload)
11:48 asciilifeform as for jurov's - i have no idea
11:49 mircea_popescu this is fairly odd
11:50 mircea_popescu !up btcdrak
11:51 asciilifeform i thought of adding a download link on individual key pages, but then folks will be tempted to use phuctor as a key server
11:51 asciilifeform which is a microscope-hammer
11:52 mircea_popescu myeah
11:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0003275 = 1.965 BTC [+]
11:56 * asciilifeform presently contemplating the fact that sks appears to contain virtually no gurlz
11:57 mircea_popescu seks!
11:57 asciilifeform numerically, use of pgp is 'manlier' than drilling for oil...
12:00 thestringpuller wake up this morning and all I see in my BTC feed is derps talkinga bout hard-fork?!?
12:01 asciilifeform thestringpuller: what if instead you found them speaking of sex with pigs? would it then also be a matter of interest ?
12:04 asciilifeform http://rt.com/news/220375-mexican-gangs-initiation-cannibalism << l0l!!! aztlan!
12:05 thestringpuller Then I would think I was legit in the twilight zone if i saw headlines like "Prime Minister of UK to have intercourse with female pig."
12:05 thestringpuller which was an episode of Black Mirror: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Anthem_%28Black_Mirror%29
12:06 asciilifeform male pig is sop in britain ?
12:06 jurov i have no idea why my keys are listed there, too. i have extended the expiration date of D0AEE7D7 few times, then removed expiration completely.
12:06 asciilifeform jurov: recall that nothing is ever removed from sks.
12:08 asciilifeform http://rt.com/news/262825-isis-sniper-rifle-photos << musket ?
12:09 jurov but periodical prolonging is normal course of events, even recommended to newbs, there should be many more such keys
12:12 jurov now, how one checks that: "Please make sure these are yours" ?
12:12 asciilifeform jurov: i think what mircea_popescu was asking was - how a mircea_popescu modulus ended up in a jurov key
12:15 thestringpuller http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37y8wm/list_of_bitcoin_services_that_supportoppose/ << civil war list. derps vs. the non-derps?
12:21 jurov i'm slow on uptake today.. exactly which keys share the moduli? and how can EDDF63E share more than 2 moduli with other keys?
12:24 jurov can anyone pls explain what is shown on http://nosuchlabs.com/dupes ?
12:35 williamdunne thestringpuller: Funnily enough, half of the derps in the derp list are d.somethings
12:37 joecool jurov: i think it's keys with multiple uid's?
12:38 jurov joecool: what do you mean_
12:38 joecool well i don't see any in there so far without a second uid on the keyserver
12:39 joecool oh nevermind i see what it is
12:40 jurov for example what exactly is 8C70D661E98EDAEABBA1064A5CC7C91AF270720114DAF220E1CB12334EDDF63E ????
12:41 jurov http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8C70D661E98EDAEABBA1064A5CC7C91AF270720114DAF220E1CB12334EDDF63E lists me, mircea and bunch of unrelated people
12:42 asciilifeform joecool: keys with multiple uid's? << no
12:42 joecool asciilifeform: yeah i realized not now, i should have looked closer before answering
12:42 asciilifeform jurov: lists me, mircea and bunch of unrelated people << unfortunately i have not the faintest clue who created this key and why.
12:42 asciilifeform as far as i can see, it is harmless
12:42 asciilifeform but why does it exist? i do not know.
12:43 jurov how is it possible to create such key so that it has my factor in?
12:44 asciilifeform jurov: nothing was factored
12:44 asciilifeform jurov: but i can take any set of moduli and shoehorn them into a valid key, sure
12:45 asciilifeform the basic unit of pgptronics is the public modulus / exponent set, rather than 'key' - which is a fairly arbitrary collection thereof
12:47 asciilifeform jurov: now, how one checks that: "Please make sure these are yours" ? << i suppose this is when i explain -why- i wrote the 'dupes' feature to begin with.
12:48 asciilifeform the idea of phuctor is to detect duplicate privatekey material in use anywhere. the reuse of one particular divisor is only one possible scenario - it is also possible that a very ham-handedly sabotaged pgptron somewhere reuses a whole pair of factors - that is, two or more strangers may, somewhere, share an entire private key.
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12:49 asciilifeform because said key was hardcoded in, or some schmuck had his seldom-used privkey substituted under his nose, or whatnot.
12:49 asciilifeform hence 'make sure these are yours'
12:50 asciilifeform if someone can suggest a better phrasing for this, please write in.
12:54 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu paused pump, resumed werker. we have around 1/4 of the total rsa keys available submitted (or processed) at this point.
12:54 gribble The operation succeeded.
12:56 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://twitter.com/wences/status/595768917907402752 << mega-l0l! wasn't this fella a chum of yours at one point? give him a thrashing ?
12:56 gribble The operation succeeded.
12:59 jurov asciilifeform: no i meant how do i check someone used my whole moduli vs. someone actually has one or both factors?
13:09 asciilifeform jurov: if someone has one factor, you would end up in http://nosuchlabs.com/phuctored
13:10 asciilifeform jurov: if someone is using both, you will end up in http://nosuchlabs.com/dupes - even though most dupes are harmless
13:13 jurov ok, thanks for explanation. i have not realized the difference between moduli and factors
13:14 asciilifeform beyond this, it helps to review how rsa works.
13:17 jurov yes, but gpg keys are not pure rsa
13:18 asciilifeform jurov: phuctor deals -only- with rsa moduli.
13:18 asciilifeform (key containing no rsa moduli will not be stored or processed)
13:20 jurov i mean there can be multiple rsa keys in one gpg key, no?
13:23 jurov like EDDF63E ... and looks like it was submitted to phuctor directly, i can't find it on sks keyserver
13:25 jurov is the original submission for EDDF63E available somewhere?
13:30 asciilifeform jurov: i suppose i will have to implement 'download key' button after all...
13:31 asciilifeform jurov: if you give me a permalink, i will pull it out of the db for you
13:31 jurov http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8C70D661E98EDAEABBA1064A5CC7C91AF270720114DAF220E1CB12334EDDF63E << you mean this?
13:34 asciilifeform jurov: http://dpaste.com/1MV98N9.txt << here you go
13:35 jurov tyvm
13:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72443 @ 0.00032383 = 23.4592 BTC [-] {2}
13:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91200 @ 0.0003286 = 29.9683 BTC [+] {2}
~ 26 minutes ~
14:16 ben_vulpes http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/05/how-a-grad-student-uncovered-a-huge-fraud.html << merit washing plus "social science" leads to lulz in short order
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14:22 asciilifeform 'ItÂ’s the sort of brazen data fraud you just donÂ’t see that often, especially in a journal like Science.' << this particular item from the gobbelsism toolbox needs a name
14:22 asciilifeform *goebbels
14:23 asciilifeform sorta like the very occasional corrupt dogcatcher they shoot in china
14:24 asciilifeform 'see, the crown cares! the rare irregularities are dealt with! watch this impalement and move along now'
14:27 asciilifeform 'This was a graduate student who successfully ran the gauntlet of the Princeton interview process with a publicly posted CV that contained wild falsehoods about his grant receipts ... ' << this is sorta like counterfeiting usd. when the counterfeiter-in-chief cranks up the press and doubles the toiletpaper in circulation, that is blessed by the crown. when some schmuck ? headzoff
14:29 asciilifeform '“My puzzlement now is, if he fabricated the data, surely he must have known that when people tried to replicate his study, they would fail to do so and the truth would come out,”' << l0l re: the obvious 'fnord' here
14:29 asciilifeform as if any of these gasbags ever seriously replicate anything
14:30 mod6 Update: full sync of v0.5.3.1-RELEASE + patche(s) { Orphanage Thermonuke } + { TX Orphanage Amputation } is up to block: 280995
14:30 asciilifeform mod6: neato
14:32 mod6 meanwhile, I'm nearly there with this gentoo install on this pos box. i did something funky i think, at the end of lastnight grub was screwed up. need to figure that out.
14:34 asciilifeform 'the fraud could have been uncovered sooner, potentially forestalling a great deal of the disruption it inflicted on various careers and on social science as a whole.' << mega-l0l! as if any of the 'careers' built upon this or similar crocks of shit - other than the exemplary scapegoat's - will skip so much as one beat
14:39 mod6 ah, up to 20 moduli broken now 'eh
14:40 mod6 ah, and my key was re-tested
14:40 mod6 ok, i see you fired up the werker, stopped the pump
14:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform eh, whatever, random derp trying to sell books or whatever by "being controversial"
14:47 mircea_popescu not worth the time
14:53 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149054 << the particular example in question just looks like an older mpex key somehow related to the various people who signed it.
14:53 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 16:48:57; asciilifeform: the idea of phuctor is to detect duplicate privatekey material in use anywhere. the reuse of one particular divisor is only one possible scenario - it is also possible that a very ham-handedly sabotaged pgptron somewhere reuses a whole pair of factors - that is, two or more strangers may, somewhere, share an entire private key.
14:58 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149080 << special interest politics, from gay to womens to minorities to what have you is fraud, run on ambition, high hopes and bad numbers. i am so shocked i think ima become a vegetarian nao.
14:58 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 18:16:50; ben_vulpes: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/05/how-a-grad-student-uncovered-a-huge-fraud.html << merit washing plus "social science" leads to lulz in short order
~ 20 minutes ~
15:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: again, signing a key - on ordinary gpg - does not throw your whole modulus in it
15:19 asciilifeform not on any pgptron i've ever used
15:19 asciilifeform but this might be configurable.
15:27 decimation asciilifeform: as an example, I have 131 'BASTARDS' between two accepts
15:27 decimation from multiple nodes
15:31 mircea_popescu yeah its weird
15:32 decimation http://dpaste.com/327TNG4 < dpaste of the debug.log between two 'ACCEPT' blocks
15:33 decimation I added the ip of the node that was passed when ProccesBlock was called
15:44 asciilifeform decimation: this is normal in my experience
15:45 asciilifeform (incidentally, a while ago i posted a patch that kills log rollover. might be of interest to some of you)
15:45 asciilifeform ^ makes it possible to preserve debug output from zero to synced in its entirety
15:47 asciilifeform <mircea_popescu> yeah its weird << nothing weird about it. the sync mechanism is braindamaged more or less as far as it is even possible to be braindamaged.
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15:47 asciilifeform and has no abort on the sending end
15:47 asciilifeform so when peer starts crapping out bastards, it won't stop until finished or disconnected
15:48 asciilifeform read the source (TM)
15:49 jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << there is already tracking of misbehaving nodes, can't that be plugged in?
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15:49 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 02:04:22; asciilifeform: (one of my early, unreleased experiments had a disconnector that tripped when we learn that the node we're syncing from is spewing orphans above threshold. perhaps time to bring this back ?)
15:50 decimation asciilifeform: yeah I'm trying to crawl my way through it. are these nodes actually hostile or do they just not have the full blockchain?
15:55 decimation jurov: there is definitely tracking of when a node was 'last heard'. what misbehvior are you talking about?
15:57 jurov decimation: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/search?v=0.10.0&_string=misbehaving&!v=0.5.3.1
15:58 jurov "misbehaving peers"
16:01 decimation jurov: yeah it does seem that there is some tracking of orphan spamming nodes
16:01 decimation but I'm not sure if those checks actually are effective in the bastards case, gonna need to read more code
16:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86254 @ 0.00031667 = 27.3141 BTC [-] {2}
~ 28 minutes ~
16:40 decimation lol http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_cw1nNUYOXSAKwrq < apparently now there's a 'facebook' for economists to 'like' ideas or not
16:41 decimation Question A:
16:41 decimation If the US replaced its discretionary monetary policy regime with a gold standard, defining a "dollar" as a specific number of ounces of gold, the price-stability and employment outcomes would be better for the average American.
16:41 decimation William Nordhaus of Yale: '10 strong disagree' This proposal makes no sense in the modern world. Just look at the Eurozone to see the consequences.
16:41 decimation Anil Kashyap of U. Chicago '10 strong disagree' A gold standard regime would be a disaster for any large advanced economy. Love of the G.S. implies macroeconomic illiteracy.
16:42 decimation if you want to see academic 'tardation in its glory, this is the place to go
↖
16:48 williamdunne Deflation is bad because why buy a sandwich today when you can buy two in 30 years
~ 18 minutes ~
17:07 decimation heh
17:13 * Adlai plays devil's advocate; or rather, s/evil/avout/
17:13 Adlai if we're gonna have live trades, why not add paymium?
17:17 jurov heh. +1
17:23 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149116 << i tried various values of 'misbehave' increment per orphan block - 20, 50, even 100. in my tests, this made sync... slower. reason, as i understand, was that 1) you lose time renegotiating connection 2) overwhelmingly likely that any node you reconnect to -also- shits just as many orphans.
↖ ↖
17:23 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 19:49:44; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << there is already tracking of misbehaving nodes, can't that be plugged in?
17:24 asciilifeform err, bastards
17:26 asciilifeform i have come to the conclusion that the -only possible- non-retarded solution to bastard blocks -when we can only adjust our end- is to throw them into the sun.
17:26 asciilifeform ditto for orphan tx
17:26 asciilifeform let's rewrite it as a maxim:
17:27 asciilifeform if it cannot be immediately validated, DON'T STORE IT!
17:27 asciilifeform not hard.
17:27 asciilifeform srsly
17:27 asciilifeform i don't even apprehend why this 'jam tomorrow' nonsense was even in there in the first place.
↖
17:27 oglafbot http://oglaf.com/threnody/
17:28 jurov premature optimization, i guess
17:29 Adlai premature hyberbitcoinization is the root of all bubbles
17:31 asciilifeform it was 'optimization' strictly in the sense that shitting into your pants is optimization over looking for toilet
17:32 Adlai it's ok, you start looking for a toilet after 750 nuggets
17:32 Adlai it's a compromise
17:32 asciilifeform !b 3
17:32 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3WRZ0E9.txt )
17:36 danielpbarron !up on247
~ 34 minutes ~
18:11 williamdunne jurov: Have you seen online.net? Its kinda like the server hosting thing you were looking at
18:11 williamdunne http://www.online.net/en/dedicated-server/dedibox-scg2
~ 16 minutes ~
18:28 jurov williamdunne: yes i knew about it. but, what do you think "victim of its own success" mean? :DDD
18:31 midnightmagic A 100% freshly-installed, default-settings online.net server in France was owned virtually immediately. Online.net support didn't answer the reinstall ticket for a month. If online.net has been successful, then success probably caused them to start sucking.
18:32 midnightmagic There also doesn't seem to be any ways to use keys without passwords, or set up new servers without email.
18:35 williamdunne jurov: Out of stock, too many people bought that cheap 6 euro dedicated server
18:35 williamdunne midnightmagic: To use keys?
18:36 jurov I personally got only an offer to share a rack with 4x100MBit(can be upgraded to giga) and 4xIPv4 for 500 euro/mo
↖
18:36 williamdunne Yeah its definitely not a perfect in every way, but looks pretty good
18:36 williamdunne jurov: Wow, I can get you better than that. Thats pretty pathetic
18:36 midnightmagic williamdunne: We are forced to use a TLS channel to order product from them. We should be able to spin up a fresh server using that interface solely, and ssh keys entered via it.
18:37 williamdunne What sort of density can you achieve?
18:37 williamdunne i.e using the cheap blades how many servers can you fit per maybe 48us?
18:41 williamdunne midnightmagic: SSH would be preferable, but how important is it really?
18:42 midnightmagic Important enough when the alternative is an emailed rootpass. :(
18:46 williamdunne Can't you just change it as soon as you connect
18:47 jurov williamdunne: pwned immediately, see above
18:53 midnightmagic williamdunne: If you're quick enough, I suppose. Also, this is presuming the host itself isn't in some fashion pwned, since who knows how it was actually compromised considering the physical drives are unavailable for examination.
↖
18:54 danielpbarron !up shesek
18:55 danielpbarron https://twitter.com/shesek/status/605005384026177537
18:55 danielpbarron >> At this time, I oppose increasing the block size limit as per Gavin's proposal.
19:02 ben_vulpes hola shesek
19:03 danielpbarron !up Lk4_DPB
19:05 Lk4_DPB danielpbarron: obliged
19:05 danielpbarron sure; who are you?
19:06 ben_vulpes !up Lk4_DPB
19:07 Adlai !s dpb from:ascii*
19:07 assbot 0 results for 'dpb from:ascii*' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dpb+from%3Aascii%2A
19:07 ben_vulpes what brings you by, Lk4_DPB ?
19:07 Adlai http://l1sp.org/cl/dpb
19:08 BingoBoingo Oh lololololol https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1075590
19:09 Lk4_DPB i was at some event in milano and they talked about assets as a the place that knoews best about bitcoin adn that discovered a probem with rsa keys
19:09 Adlai the keys are fine, the servers are fucked
19:09 Lk4_DPB the servers accept any key is the problem?
19:09 ben_vulpes Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-05-2015#1124561
19:09 assbot Logged on 08-05-2015 01:17:36; ben_vulpes: look danielpbarron there's a function in common lisp named for you!
19:10 Adlai ben_vulpes: "aha"
19:10 Adlai s/"/'/g
19:10 Adlai Lk4_DPB: doubtful, it's more likely the dud keys were placed there intentionally
19:10 Lk4_DPB by dud or someone else?
19:11 Adlai "by dud"?
19:12 Lk4_DPB by the owner or someone else?
19:13 Adlai why would key owners distribute bad versions of their own keys?
19:13 Adlai although i guess it could be an experiment, and the experimenters wanted to only diddle their own keys, to minimize collateral damage
19:14 Lk4_DPB i would not know, perhaps it was not a smart question
19:24 Adlai there are no stupid questions, only stupid people
19:30 mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats
19:31 gribble Current Blocks: 358878 | Current Difficulty: 4.758959115362501E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 360863 | Next Difficulty In: 1985 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 56719622139.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 19.18493
19:31 mircea_popescu somebody should write a better estimator sometime.
19:32 midnightmagic nanotube accepts patches pretty solicitously :)
↖
19:32 mircea_popescu yeah.
19:32 mircea_popescu it's a complicated problem tho.
19:33 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149112 << i was talking about the mixed moduli situation yo.
19:33 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 19:47:00; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> yeah its weird << nothing weird about it. the sync mechanism is braindamaged more or less as far as it is even possible to be braindamaged.
19:33 mircea_popescu as to the bastard situation, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148935
19:33 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 12:11:09; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << i would like to see a patch which maintains VALUED list of other nodes.
19:35 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149130 << notwithstanding that the dudes in question are probably illiterate, gold standard does in fact not work for a large array or reasons. this exercise is not unlike an attempt to deride qm on the grounds that the various twerps making money out of govt grants in physics academia could not explain it.
19:35 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 20:42:43; decimation: if you want to see academic 'tardation in its glory, this is the place to go
19:37 mircea_popescu and gold standard != deflation for the record. not anymore than diarrhea = transpiration
19:38 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149136 << the latter point is correct, for now. but, much like us being here makes live marginally harder for now, yet the presence of punishment for idiots provides them an incentive to either get killed or get fixed, just so putting that in there pre-pogo provides an avenue for the network to purge itself of idiocy.
19:38 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 21:23:54; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149116 << i tried various values of 'misbehave' increment per orphan block - 20, 50, even 100. in my tests, this made sync... slower. reason, as i understand, was that 1) you lose time renegotiating connection 2) overwhelmingly likely that any node you reconnect to -also- shits just as many orphans.
19:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which idiocy ?
19:42 BingoBoingo orphan shitters
19:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: our 0.5.3.xyz isn't any more clever on the transmitter end!
19:42 mircea_popescu in the case of the blockchain, the existence of nodes that pump out bad info.
19:42 mircea_popescu in the case of the world, the existence of people that pump out stupidity.
19:42 asciilifeform it is 'bad' from standpoint of node which doesn't have the antecedents, yes
19:42 mircea_popescu biology works in this manner alf.
19:42 asciilifeform but this reflects the lack of a reasonable 'gossip' mechanism - on both ends
19:42 mircea_popescu "it's bad from my pov so fuck you."
19:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 149979 @ 0.00031638 = 47.4504 BTC [-] {3}
19:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha but here there isn't a 'me' and 'you' yet
19:43 mircea_popescu not yet, no.
19:43 asciilifeform there would just be folks shooting selves in the feet
19:43 mircea_popescu yes.
19:43 mircea_popescu how else do you think me and you is born ?
19:43 asciilifeform once we have a reasonable 'embrace and extend' of sync mechanism - then yes
19:43 mircea_popescu well yes.
19:43 mircea_popescu i'm not proposing "This by itself and right now"
19:44 mircea_popescu im not gavinue aendreaessaen
19:44 mircea_popescu or w/e you spell it.
19:44 ben_vulpes genuinely asinine
19:44 mircea_popescu that's a point.
19:45 Adlai !s gribble source
19:45 assbot 898 results for 'gribble source' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gribble+source
19:46 Adlai !s patch gribble OR nanotube
19:46 assbot 18385 results for 'patch gribble OR nanotube' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=patch+gribble+OR+nanotube
19:46 Adlai fuck
19:46 mircea_popescu what are you trying to do ?
19:46 asciilifeform anyway, for all who want, replace 'return true;' in 'if' block where begins with printf("ProcessBlock: BASTARD... with 'if (pfrom) pfrom->Misbehaving(whateverconstant)'
19:47 Adlai mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149204
19:47 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 23:32:24; midnightmagic: nanotube accepts patches pretty solicitously :)
19:47 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149145 << you have to appreciate the situation at the time. not that many nodes alive or expected, and a certain desperation to "make it work".
19:47 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 21:27:33; asciilifeform: i don't even apprehend why this 'jam tomorrow' nonsense was even in there in the first place.
19:47 mircea_popescu and someone coding in windows and without much of a clue about programming as a theoretical discipline.
19:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: granted, but 'don't let strangers throw ten pounds of shit each into your five-pound bag' is not higher mathematics ...?
19:48 mircea_popescu Adlai are you looking for his github ? same name.
19:48 Adlai nonsense, satoshi had every clue about proper code, but he didn't want to make it too easy
19:49 Adlai gotta leave something to work for
19:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform at the time the 4096 ounce bag should have been enough for everyone.
19:50 mircea_popescu http://oglaf.com/business/ << shit. my lyf ;/
19:51 asciilifeform l0l
19:53 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149172 << that is always and without exception the sign of a vps being sold as fake "dedicated"
19:53 assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 22:53:20; midnightmagic: williamdunne: If you're quick enough, I suppose. Also, this is presuming the host itself isn't in some fashion pwned, since who knows how it was actually compromised considering the physical drives are unavailable for examination.
19:54 Adlai aha, the culprit is https://blockexplorer.com/q/estimate
19:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85500 @ 0.00032489 = 27.7781 BTC [+] {2}
19:55 asciilifeform y'know, it isn't hard to test for all known types of virtualizer from inside
19:55 asciilifeform turdware artists do it sop.
19:55 mircea_popescu Adlai yes.
19:55 mircea_popescu you could have asked THAT , it's not uknown.
19:56 * Adlai found that in the gribble source, didn't realize it was just parotting a value from elsewhere
19:57 mircea_popescu bbl
19:58 Adlai https://github.com/lirazsiri/blockexplorer -> PHP 95.4% -> nope
19:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59750 @ 0.00032857 = 19.6321 BTC [+] {2}
19:59 ben_vulpes rewriting the block explorer now, Adlai ?
19:59 Adlai nope. nope nope nope
19:59 * Adlai has already (defun-json-rpc bitcoind.rpc ..)
~ 19 minutes ~
20:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.0003293 = 12.003 BTC [+]
20:19 ben_vulpes Adlai, asciilifeform: are the commercial lisps worth paying for?
20:20 ben_vulpes trinque and i were wondering about their CLIM implementations, and if documentation etc was better on the closed-source side of the world
20:22 Adlai who needs documentation when you have live support
20:26 BingoBoingo Oh found internet fiction http://pastebin.com/CPum0U4R
20:34 * Adlai got had at moo
~ 16 minutes ~
20:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00031613 = 2.4026 BTC [-]
20:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00031125 = 6.3495 BTC [-]
~ 23 minutes ~
21:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22126 @ 0.00031125 = 6.8867 BTC [-]
21:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00030903 = 1.1434 BTC [-]
21:40 decimation re: gold standard doesn't work < yeah this might be the case, but nearly all of the criticisms offered would apply equally to bitcoin
21:42 decimation asciilifeform: maybe one solution to the 'bastard transmitter' problem would be to make an irc/gossip/udp net that requires proof of wot membership to join
~ 26 minutes ~
22:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21425 @ 0.00031002 = 6.6422 BTC [+]
22:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00030874 = 11.0838 BTC [-] {2}
22:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00031006 = 6.7283 BTC [+]
22:26 asciilifeform <ben_vulpes> Adlai, asciilifeform: are the commercial lisps worth paying for? << extremely bad question. is a boeing worth paying for? depends!
22:27 Adlai i've heard they're great for hammering in nails
22:27 asciilifeform Adlai: nah, that's microscopes
22:27 Adlai you aren't dreaming big enough
22:28 * asciilifeform dreams big: of hammering with -electron- microscopes !
22:28 mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000096.html << The State of Bitcoin Address
↖
22:29 asciilifeform decimation: asciilifeform: maybe one solution to the 'bastard transmitter' problem would be ... this is still reasoning from the misconception that 'bastards' necessarily come from malicious or malfunctioning nodes. this is not the case - a 0.5.3.x will emit bastards - from point of view of certain nodes - just as often as any other
22:29 Adlai both are too heavy to wield manually but electron microscopes, unlike the boeing, lack self-propulsion
22:29 asciilifeform it is a consequence of how screamingly retarded the sync mechanism is to begin with
22:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21217 @ 0.00031018 = 6.5811 BTC [+] {2}
22:30 decimation asciilifeform: forgive my ignorance, but there's a single valid path through the blockchain
22:30 decimation why does every node need to reverify it?
22:32 asciilifeform <ben_vulpes> trinque and i were wondering about their CLIM implementations, and if documentation etc was better on the closed-source side of the world << i never had lispworks and can't comment about it, but franz 'allegro' does come with clim. iirc it only works in the non-smp version though, and depends on gtk
22:33 asciilifeform lispworks is actually (afaik to this day) the maintainer of the online cl hyperspec! while documentation from franz was once superb - came in printed volumes, which i bought second-hand
22:33 asciilifeform but afaik they no longer ship the dead tree
22:33 asciilifeform decimation: if you didn't verify the entire blockchain from end to end, you aren't a node!
22:33 asciilifeform but a gavinabortion
22:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00030846 = 5.4289 BTC [-]
22:34 decimation yeah, but there's a difference between "here's our history; you verify" and "pls to give transactions"
22:34 asciilifeform mod6: neato
22:35 asciilifeform decimation: in both cases, 'martian' - that is to say, unverifiable with info at hand - blocks (or transactions) are indistinguishable from garbage at time of receipt
22:36 mod6 thx ascii, :]
22:37 asciilifeform mod6: i would comment that technically the block-bastardage and tx-orphanage nukes are semantically independent. but the latter was derived from a main.cpp patched with the former.
22:37 asciilifeform so the statement in the report - holds.
22:38 asciilifeform mod6: the igprof thing was its own patch
22:38 asciilifeform (it works without the patch but you can't take runtime heap snapshots then)
22:39 asciilifeform oh perhaps i should mention that i tested the db memory thing
22:39 asciilifeform our ver. of bdb actually lacks the set_memory_max
22:39 asciilifeform there is a cache cap option. setting it did precisely nothing.
22:39 mod6 I should have put in a line maybe about "encouraged to read the submitted emails" or something, but perhaps I just thought it was implied.
22:40 mod6 <+asciilifeform> our ver. of bdb actually lacks the set_memory_max << OH. ok did not realize that. damn. well, i'll mention this fact in next months letter. should hvae asked.
22:40 asciilifeform not 100% certain that we're all using same bdb...
22:40 decimation asciilifeform: I'm using the auto.sh build
22:41 mod6 well, if one starts with the v0.5.3.1-RELEASE built with auto.sh, then BDB 4.8.30 will be built with it.
22:42 mod6 <+asciilifeform> not 100% certain that we're all using same bdb... << but anyway, yeah, I'll check anyway. there is a chance that we could be looking at two seperate versions.
22:42 asciilifeform see db-4.8.30/dbinc/db_cxx.in
22:43 asciilifeform for what is and isn't on the gameboard.
22:44 decimation no set_memory_max on my version
22:44 mod6 yeah, its not in there.
22:44 asciilifeform anyway none of my tests lay blame on bdb for continuous memory-eating
22:45 asciilifeform just has the appearance of something one could perhaps shave a MB or two off, total.
22:45 decimation asciilifeform: I see lots of std::vector and associated bs in your igprof stuff
22:45 asciilifeform on the other hand, it -is- a candidate for the possible hidey-hole of the 'phantom' ram
22:45 asciilifeform decimation: likely, boost internal crapolade
22:46 decimation do you think it's possible that C++ is 'helpfully' holding on to allocated memory?
22:46 asciilifeform decimation: when formally freed ? that'd be a gcc bug
22:46 asciilifeform and/or glibc
22:47 asciilifeform not impossible, but 'first rule out the usual suspects, then - miracles'
22:47 decimation I guess I'm saying: did satoshi fail to clean up clutter as he went along?
22:47 asciilifeform decimation: thing is, we no longer have classical leakage
22:47 asciilifeform as in, memory --> +inf as t --> +inf
22:48 decimation right. and one thing that infuriates me about std::vector - for instance - is that it's not exactly clear when free() is gonna be called
22:49 asciilifeform this is one of the reasons why i - in all seriousness - believe c++ to be one of the 20th century's greatest crimes against the future.
22:50 decimation stroustrup gonna be dug up and hung in effigy?
22:50 Adlai !s fqa
22:50 assbot 0 results for 'fqa' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fqa
22:50 asciilifeform why effigy?
22:50 asciilifeform bastard's alive !
22:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22550 @ 0.00030846 = 6.9558 BTC [-]
22:51 decimation yeah but folks don't realize the crime yet, apparently
22:51 asciilifeform at any rate, it'd be harmless crackpottery without microshit
22:51 asciilifeform the real enabler
22:52 asciilifeform (notice, incidentally, that cpp is virtually unused outside the microturd world ?)
22:53 decimation heh yeah when reading that bastards section I ran into "CCriticalSection" stuff - which apparently all came from mfc shit
22:53 decimation satoshi reimplemented
22:54 asciilifeform imho one of the most perplexing things about 'anti-bitcoin' agitators is how they all - to a man - miss the most cogent argument against bitcoin: it being, how it is implemented
↖
22:54 asciilifeform out of duct tape and chewing gum, and, to add insult to injury, cannot really be rebuilt
22:54 decimation well, because what do they have? excel?
22:54 asciilifeform (see old mircea_popescu thread re: proof)
22:55 asciilifeform there -exists- software not crafted out of duct tape and gum
22:55 asciilifeform most folks have had some (albeit unconscious) encounters with it - riding airplanes, etc
↖
22:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56815 @ 0.00030835 = 17.5189 BTC [-] {2}
22:58 decimation it could be rebuilt, but not without the resources of a rich prince
22:59 decimation certainly not by hobbyists
↖
23:00 asciilifeform wake me up when there exists anything other than hobbyists in the space.
23:00 decimation aye
23:00 decimation what ever came of that startup that is re-writing bitcoin in go or whatever
23:01 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-05-2015#1128353 << this.
23:01 assbot Logged on 11-05-2015 20:00:50; mircea_popescu: "TLDR I ran afl-fuzz against libbitcoinconsensus to discover interesting Bitcoin scripts and used them to search for Bitcoin reimplementations vulnerable to forking. This discovered two bugs in btcd by Conformal. See the bitcoinconsensus_testcases repository for the discovered Bitcoin scripts."
23:01 decimation heh
23:02 asciilifeform the other basic observation is that bitcoin per se feeds no one
23:02 asciilifeform and that no one ought to be surprised by this
23:02 asciilifeform see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-05-2015#1143414
23:02 assbot Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:48; mircea_popescu: the idea here being that people wouldn't pay for a sane os for the same reason they won't payfor the sun.
23:03 asciilifeform (buncha derps get fed by usg for pretending to operate in bitcoin; very different affair)
23:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35989 @ 0.00030647 = 11.0295 BTC [-] {2}
23:04 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-05-2015#1143424 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-05-2015#1143425
23:04 assbot Logged on 22-05-2015 06:59:41; mircea_popescu: people do buy chemicals, but they don't buy "chemistry"
23:04 assbot Logged on 22-05-2015 06:59:49; mircea_popescu: if th efield had needed such a thing, it wouldn't exist at all.
23:06 decimation asciilifeform: yeah it's true that 'selling os' is a terrible business
23:07 asciilifeform no one will ever make a living, much less get rich, selling the sun.
23:13 asciilifeform why the hell would anyone pay anyone to, e.g., kill mosquitoes, when 'deadheads' who paid nothing still get the 'product' (avoiding bites) ?
23:13 asciilifeform !up Vexual
23:14 decimation some people like to live in a civilized place, as opposed to barbarous
23:14 asciilifeform this only goes so far
23:15 thestringpuller anyone see anything about this project vault by google?
23:15 thestringpuller suspiciously similar to cardano
23:15 asciilifeform ?
23:15 asciilifeform can't wait for the usg cardano.
23:15 asciilifeform (anyone recall 'clipper' ?)
23:16 Vexual fast ship?
23:16 asciilifeform thestringpuller: i'm seeing a microsd single-chip turd
23:16 asciilifeform snore.
23:16 asciilifeform 'It also has an NFC chip and an antenna (for proving that you are in control and that itÂ’s correctly authorized).' l0l!!!
23:17 asciilifeform auditability? what's that.
23:18 thestringpuller asciilifeform: yea pretty much usg cardano, just didn't know if it had been discussed. now it has.
23:18 asciilifeform for young people >> https://epic.org/crypto/clipper << the original usg cardano.
23:19 asciilifeform the first time around, they made the mistake of being honest about the intentions of backdooring
23:19 asciilifeform http://opensource.com/government/15/2/us-government-retires-clipper-chip << not formally retracted as usg proclamation until 2015 !
23:22 asciilifeform http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2014/08/the-nsa-tried-this-before-what-the-90s-debate-over-the-clipper-chip-can-teach-us-about-digital-privacy-debates << moar on the subject. tabloid, but with pretty picturez.
23:23 decimation asciilifeform: note that usg doesn't really need to be 'good', it's just that there's no credible alternative
23:23 asciilifeform onetimepad with goose quill pens and dice is still more credible alternative than anything out of usg & co.
23:23 Vexual elegant
23:24 Vexual none of this shoehorn a shit onto your shit
23:25 Vexual so you might tread thru shit
23:26 asciilifeform at any rate, google is ripping off folks like https://www.nitrokey.com and the two or three similar items discussed in previous logs
23:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.0003118 = 1.5902 BTC [+]
23:27 Vexual i assumed vault was just a word that presumed they were better than apple at storing nudes, so i didnt look
23:27 Vexual what is it?
23:28 mircea_popescu <Adlai> who needs documentation when you have live support << what's this, camwhoring for geeks ?
23:28 asciilifeform Vexual: sd card with single-chip 'crypto coprocessor' (a la the atmel turd discussed a few months ago; possibly even the very same) - with extra holy water and marketing drivel included
23:28 Adlai pretty much
23:28 Adlai shellwhoring
23:31 asciilifeform thestringpuller, decimation: whether snowden & co. started out as psyop or not, fact is that at this point it is 100% a marketing machine for 'vaults' and 'redpNohes' of a thousand and one kinds
23:32 Vexual sd card is the only hole on a google netbook?
23:32 asciilifeform Vexual: the only (usable) hole in a google pNohe
23:32 asciilifeform hence the form factor.
23:32 Vexual ah
23:33 asciilifeform regardless of what kind of pig you might own, the hucksters will gladly sell you fourteen varieties of s333k0000r1ty!!!11 lipstick for it.
23:33 mircea_popescu country of fat stupid people with government issued money. of course everything will end up marketing.
23:34 mircea_popescu the entire french language is, in the us, a sort of marketing ploy.
23:34 decimation heh yeah that's true
23:34 * asciilifeform picks up phone, calls airline, asks to buy ticket to country where they have thin smart people with non-governmental money
23:35 * mircea_popescu too.
23:35 mircea_popescu used to be russia, amusingly enough
23:35 asciilifeform afaik they still have the 'thin' working
23:39 danielpbarron ;;later tell Luke-Jr hey look it's that game you like to play! -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoldFvlYwyM
23:40 gribble The operation succeeded.
23:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90856 @ 0.0003196 = 29.0376 BTC [+] {3}
23:45 mircea_popescu bwahahaha wait, there's derps actually writing on tardstalk like all seriously and naively and whatnot ?
23:45 mircea_popescu jesus the internet's a riot.
23:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40750 @ 0.0003293 = 13.419 BTC [+]
23:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46610 @ 0.00032626 = 15.207 BTC [-]
23:57 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149292 << /me greps for ben_vulpes in there, finds entry in title
23:57 assbot Logged on 01-06-2015 02:28:46; mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000096.html << The State of Bitcoin Address
23:57 mircea_popescu whatcher doin' these days yo ?
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