Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-10-26 | 2014-10-28 → ↓
00:00 undata the original pondering was "how to turn the blockchain into a giant torrent site"
00:00 decimation http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/
00:00 assbot #bitcoin-assets deed registry
00:01 undata decimation: that's what bugs me about a lot of these services
00:01 undata they require some website
00:02 decimation eh?
00:02 decimation it's in the blockchain
00:02 decimation the website is just a pointer
00:02 undata the whole b64 at the bottom is?
00:02 TheNewDeal it's basically a blockchain parser that just filters for deeds, no?
00:03 decimation well, no the blob isn't
00:03 undata ^
00:03 decimation but obviously that's an expensive proposition
00:03 undata hence magnet links...
00:04 decimation magnet links would solve the distribution problem but not the attribution problem
00:04 decimation you still gotta sign something
00:04 decimation so either: mirror deedbot or embed your magnet links to deedbot's signed blob
00:06 undata decimation: you'd need something that indicates "this is a deed" and also has a magnet link for the whole signed message
00:06 undata what's missing?
00:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8851 @ 0.00075627 = 6.6937 BTC [-]
00:11 decimation I'm not sure. It would be useful if punkman released some docs on exactly how deedbot works
00:11 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286
00:11 assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
00:14 decimation so if I'm reading that correctly, the list of sha256 hashes of all the deeds would allow one to 'detect deeds'
00:15 undata then you have a private key
00:16 undata what's done with that
00:17 TheNewDeal I think he also is going to add all the commands here later http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots
00:17 assbot irc_bots [bitcoin assets wiki]
00:18 decimation well, the public key (address) can be derived from the private key
00:19 decimation so in your blob you put the chronological list of hashes for all deeds - user will be able to confirm that this blob was indeed put into the blockchain by deedbot
00:19 decimation or rather, the hash thereof
00:20 decimation at least, that's my understanding, would like to know if it's incorrect.
00:27 undata right, what's spent to that address
00:27 undata the payment for the asset in the deed?
00:33 BingoBoingo dissapoint https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bOiERzVZo0c/VD4UJtxpL-I/AAAAAAAAJZ8/v5SMhuE2O_s/s1600/99e6153305d2c9cf86ae64668587362378ffa71bf9c33ead58577beda9184a52_1.gif
00:34 undata haa
00:40 mthreat sweet, deeds!
00:40 BingoBoingo http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/10/ebola-czar/
00:40 assbot Newly Appointed "Ebola Czar" Quarantines Entire Navy After Learning Ebola Can be Transmitted by Semen - GomerBlog
00:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00075915 = 16.1699 BTC [+] {3}
00:47 cazalla https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000001139b5d2073c74267dc905feeac7a23cf537d25e66961182 is that largest block size ever?
00:47 assbot Bitcoin Block #327145
00:47 cazalla 976.552734375 KB
00:47 mircea_popescu <TheNewDeal> do you think that's true? << no, it's stupid.
00:48 mircea_popescu cazalla been a few close to 1mb this year.
00:48 mircea_popescu but possibly.
00:52 TheNewDeal can you expand on that?
00:58 mircea_popescu TheNewDeal well, would you say that the best way to help your poor neighbour is to burn some soup ?
00:58 TheNewDeal at least then the assholes wouldnt be able to use the bitcoins that funded ether
00:58 mircea_popescu well sure, this is true.
00:59 mircea_popescu but you gotta decide which line you're going. inasmuch as it keeps the asshole from getting resources, yes it's better than giving him bitcoin.
00:59 mircea_popescu but if you're trying to prevent the asshole from getting resources, why even consider the matter, just ignore it.
01:00 TheNewDeal well it's like this, you know at least some finite amount of worth was destroyed to generate new pile of shitcoin
01:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00076496 = 9.7915 BTC [+]
01:00 mircea_popescu <PeterL> are you familiar with the deedbot? << exactly.
01:00 mircea_popescu TheNewDeal so ?
01:02 mircea_popescu <decimation> at least, that's my understanding, would like to know if it's incorrect. << there's other ways to verify too, but this one definitely works.
01:02 BingoBoingo <TheNewDeal> well it's like this, you know at least some finite amount of worth was destroyed to generate new pile of shitcoin << Spz Dr. Evil burned all of the coins on Bitstamp to "fund" an altchain. What would that do?
01:04 undata uh, create two worthless things...
01:07 BingoBoingo ;;google bitcoin prices bitcoin inflexibility
01:07 gribble Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/>; Can We Stabilize the Price of Cryptocurrency? - Connection Science ...: <http://connection.mit.edu/Iwamura-Kitamura201407.pdf>; Is Bitcoin a viable currency? - MIT Sloan School of Management: <http://mitsloan.mit.edu/finance/blog/?p=466>
01:09 TheNewDeal BingoBoingo suppose dr. evil created something he called Bitcoin 2.0
01:09 TheNewDeal the only way to fund it was to destroy bitcoin in the process
01:10 TheNewDeal suddently, 20% of bitcoin disappears overnight to said address
01:11 TheNewDeal It would mean that there were at least some people who decided it was worth getting rid of their bitcoin to check out bitcoin 2.0
01:11 BingoBoingo Well, the remaining Bitcoins on version 1.0 increase in value and people wonder when Dr. Evil is going to dump those BTC he raised under the influence of ether
01:13 TheNewDeal If it were 99% of the original bitcoin, what would it say about the remaining 1%?
01:13 BingoBoingo Million dollar Bitcoin.
01:14 BingoBoingo Also why were people keeping those wallets on Windows 98?
01:14 TheNewDeal perhaps, or it's not worth anything to anyone any more
01:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00079243 = 12.3619 BTC [+]
01:15 undata TheNewDeal: for some reason that reminded me of cash for clunkers
01:15 undata where the US govt subsidized people buying new cars, as long as they gave their old cars in to be destroyed
01:16 TheNewDeal gots to get some sleep
~ 54 minutes ~
02:11 BingoBoingo https://twitter.com/blakkheim/status/522162864409546753/photo/1 << LibreSSL's warrant canary
02:11 assbot and the libressl warrant canary is... you guessed it, comic sans. https://t.co/bx6nNNg6Tn http://t.co/uWLw8ao6nf
02:16 mircea_popescu uh wut
02:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15764 @ 0.00077107 = 12.1551 BTC [-]
02:16 mircea_popescu <TheNewDeal> perhaps, or it's not worth anything to anyone any more << that's pure nonsense.
02:17 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: The header text on the libressl.org page is part of the jpg with the pufferfish. If the warrant canary triggers the header text becomes comic sans is my reading of it.
02:17 mircea_popescu magic numbers are all equal. if 99.999999% of bitcoin were destroyed as you describe, the remainder coupla hundred btc will play the role of twenty million
02:17 mircea_popescu all payments move to smaller units and the story ends
02:18 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i fail to get how this is supposed to be a canary.
02:19 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I would figure that to keep the server from displaying the comic sans image someone has to keep hitting the "We haven't been served yet" button.
02:19 mircea_popescu but they'd be legally forbidden from stopping hitting that button.
02:21 BingoBoingo Why, because they aren't Apple who has the press gloss over "The canary died because it became unecessary, not because a warrant came to kill it"
02:21 BingoBoingo And all of that retardation.
02:23 BingoBoingo The canary isn't a guarantee they haven't been approached, but it's being triggered should seem to be a guarentee they have.
02:23 mircea_popescu for something to be a canary it has to be a passive, unavoidable mechanism.
02:23 mircea_popescu this comic font business is neither passive nor unavoidable
02:25 mircea_popescu !up Newar
02:26 BingoBoingo It's definitely far from a robust system, especially considering a MITM could force delivery of the pre-canary image
02:28 BingoBoingo A better system would simply involve passing a BTC balance between two addresses under one's control at set intervals
02:31 mircea_popescu how'd that be better ?
02:31 mircea_popescu no, the way these things work is the company has a firm negative statement published. "we have not been approached to so and so".
02:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28550 @ 0.0007715 = 22.0263 BTC [+] {2}
02:31 mircea_popescu the law can not compel one to lie, and so as long as that statement appears, it's not happened
02:31 BingoBoingo Sign a message asserting that passing the balance between the two addresses fuctions as your warrant canary and GPG crypt the message to a few trusted parties that can release the signed doc if the behavior consituting the canary ceases
02:32 mircea_popescu once it disappears, irrespective of what the usg propaganda machine claims, it's happened.
02:32 mircea_popescu short and sweet
02:32 mircea_popescu you're using a meta concept as if it were a thing.
02:33 BingoBoingo I guess. I'm just trying to think of a verifiable deed sort of version that could be concealed from the warrant industry until triggered
02:40 mircea_popescu so the person in question can be charged with conspiracy "?
02:45 BingoBoingo I suppose that is also a concern. Maybe the current practice for the warrant canary lacks room for improvement.
02:47 BingoBoingo At least until the datacenters running bitcoin nodes become nuclear powers.
02:49 BingoBoingo http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/moniteau-county-prosecutor-faces-charges-after-truck-crashes-into-columbia/article_febc9957-785f-571e-9f6c-2f4e7f066af7.html
~ 18 minutes ~
03:08 BingoBoingo http://www.alternet.org/department-homeland-security-executes-panty-raid-kansas-city
03:09 mircea_popescu finally made knickers illegal ?
03:10 BingoBoingo Copyrastas, the panties broke trademark law or were counterfeit or something
03:10 BingoBoingo But maybe someday.
03:10 mircea_popescu hopefully they now make homeland security panties
03:11 mircea_popescu preferably with the logo where the butt kisses it.
03:12 BingoBoingo I was actually wondering what the market would be for silk thongs with the butt thread made of authentic Obama tis
03:12 undata http://www.cafepress.com/+dhs_seal_classic_thong,1143693906
03:13 BingoBoingo *ties
03:13 undata close enough?
03:14 mircea_popescu prolly
03:15 BingoBoingo Just needs to be worn backwards in torture device configuration
03:16 undata wtf is DHS doing enforcing copyright
03:17 undata they're going to find out later that the US had a lead pipes situation
03:17 undata the country's going crazy
03:19 undata http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-shows-70-percent-of-americans-take-prescription-drugs/
03:19 undata for starters, we're all high as shit.
03:22 mircea_popescu undata obama finished the reorganisation of everthing law enforcement as a homeland security sub.
03:27 undata I notice "raids" are now a primary way of doing things
03:28 mircea_popescu well, like sex is no longer fashionable so the girl will claim she was "raped", just so the visit by two state employees to confiscate some contraband is called a "raid"
03:28 mircea_popescu gotta make it news, right ?
03:28 undata everything is entertainment
03:29 undata or rather, for show
03:33 undata I can't see the next 20 years going well for most people here.
03:34 undata if I were conspiracy minded, I'd say they're preparing for that now with the militarization of police, etc
03:34 undata but I don't think that
03:35 undata our system just bloats like that, needs to create new bureaus and buy them fancy tanks and drones
03:36 BingoBoingo Eh, sometimes they are out to get you.
03:37 undata but to what end, then?
03:38 undata it's the pointlessness of america, not the brutality, that gets me
03:40 undata s/pointlessness/incoherence/
03:41 undata it must just be what things look like when they're unraveling.
~ 19 minutes ~
04:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33350 @ 0.0007744 = 25.8262 BTC [+] {4}
04:07 mircea_popescu <undata> but to what end, then? << you seen miller's crossing ?
~ 1 hours 57 minutes ~
06:05 bounce <mircea_popescu> " regulatory oversight maybe at the national and international level, just to make sure that we don?t do something very foolish" << in a sense this is an open invitation for some agency or institute or whatnot to step up. "bring it before us and we'll pass judgement", with suitable PR to suitably spin it up and answer the inevitable "you and what army?" questions.
~ 18 minutes ~
06:23 chetty http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html?_r=0
06:24 chetty very good reason not to use banks, imo
06:32 Naphex http://www.coindesk.com/family-mines-bitcoin-together-stays-together/ wth is this?
~ 24 minutes ~
06:56 thestringpuller Naphex: I saw that.
06:57 thestringpuller I havne't read it yet.
06:57 thestringpuller Should I?
07:00 Naphex thestringpuller: title should be enough :)
07:01 thestringpuller How are these guys not operating on a loss if they started around the new year?
07:04 punkman htop
07:04 punkman hmm wrong window
07:04 thestringpuller ls
07:05 thestringpuller Naphex: the comments are great
~ 17 minutes ~
07:22 punkman http://www.coindesk.com/crypto-2-0-roundup-bits-bullion-foundation-counterparty-medici-goes-washington/
07:22 punkman "Counterparty matures with foundation launch"
07:23 punkman !s coinspark
07:23 assbot 4 results for 'coinspark' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=coinspark
07:24 Naphex punkman: i checked out coinspark a while ago
07:25 punkman Naphex: and?
07:26 Naphex well i was the protocol is something that i was looking for, with asset servers. the cryptography its pretty simple
07:27 Naphex current implementation is clunky not in any way suitable for running anything in production
07:28 punkman above article says some company wants to use it for gold trading
07:28 Naphex well unless they want to dev the whole infrastructure
07:28 punkman free gold maybe?
07:30 Naphex punkman: well anyway, i had a calendar date to recheck it in 6 months
07:31 punkman "important to emphasise that investor assets are never held by Bullion Bitcoin in its own right: investors either hold allocated gold in their own allocated gold account, or they hold an identifiable amount of allocated gold bullion held on their behalf, or they hold an identifiable Bitcoin holding verifiable on the Blockchain"
07:32 punkman derp
07:33 punkman https://bullionbitcoin.com/about-us
07:33 punkman I read "coinscrum" as "coinscrotum" for a second there
07:36 punkman !s digitaltangible
07:36 assbot 1 results for 'digitaltangible' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=digitaltangible
07:40 thestringpuller !up Mikayla
07:40 thestringpuller !up xinxi
07:40 Mikayla Thank you
07:40 thestringpuller !up yhwh_
07:40 thestringpuller yw
07:40 Mikayla What is the topic of today?
07:40 xinxi thanks
07:40 Naphex i am working on a enterprise server solution for bitcoin
07:41 Mikayla interesting
07:41 Mikayla I don't really believe you
07:41 Mikayla tell me more :)
07:41 Naphex why wouldn't you belive me lol?
07:42 punkman !up MCM-Mike
07:42 * Mikayla shurgs
07:43 thestringpuller skeptical Mikayla is skeptical
07:43 Mikayla would you be here active if you were?
07:44 Mikayla It's never good to believe every thing you hear or see :)
07:44 thestringpuller What if you saw something that was unbelievable?
07:45 Mikayla Best I see it with my own eyes as opposed to a Youtube video
07:46 thestringpuller Random: The walking dead gave me nightmares, and I didn't even watch it.
07:46 Mikayla I've had a zombie nightmare
07:47 Mikayla pre The Walking Dead
07:47 Mikayla must be Resident Evil
07:48 thestringpuller Resident Evil: "Limited Ammo Simulator"
07:48 thestringpuller Or at least how I remember it.
07:49 chetty belief is a silly concept
07:49 Mikayla not unlimited?
07:49 thestringpuller I always ran out of ammo. Not as bad as Silent Hill though, but that was more survival/puzzle oriented
07:50 Mikayla oh I thought we meant the movie
07:50 thestringpuller OH
07:50 thestringpuller haha
07:50 Mikayla some movies they have a little too much ammo
07:50 Mikayla logically
07:50 thestringpuller I'm pretty sure Milla Jovavich poops bullets at this point.
07:51 Mikayla She's hot
07:51 chetty <Mikayla> some movies they have a little too much ammo//some? a little too much? ,hah movies guns never run out of bullets
07:51 Mikayla http://www.cracked.com/article_19781_6-stupid-gun-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html
07:51 Mikayla this is funny
07:51 Mikayla chetty some are better made
07:51 thestringpuller Mikayla: She's hot << She did age well.
07:52 Mikayla Very unique
07:52 Mikayla not a carbon copy
07:53 thestringpuller shotguns are good for hallwys though
07:53 Mikayla http://www.celebritypic.tk/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Milla-Jovovich-7.jpg
07:53 thestringpuller if you have a narrow hallway and a group of combatants is coming down it, you can just unload blindly and you'll probably hit most of them
07:53 Mikayla shit, I am shit out narrow hallways today
07:53 Mikayla best I don't get into trouble :P
07:54 chetty so, its another Monday in October, any predictions? (yes this goes with the shotguns ...)
07:54 punkman I don't mind the infinite bullets, more that they can't hit anything that's not a mook
07:54 Mikayla I believe another banker died via a nail gun
07:54 Mikayla "suicide"
07:54 Mikayla my conspiracy senses are tingling
07:55 chetty banking is a very unhealthful profession is would seem
07:55 thestringpuller In 2012 someone had written an October future that expired on Halloween. That was interesting.
07:57 Mikayla well a nailgun sounds like a horrific way to die
07:57 Mikayla why not go a more....
07:57 Mikayla peaceful route
07:57 Naphex yeah so the thing is..
07:58 Naphex a enterprise node, hook into trusted bitcoin core nodes over P2p protocol. Index and cache the data
07:58 Naphex then delivery it over several types of interfaces
07:58 Naphex unspents, utxo's etc
07:58 punkman hey something interesting in Cracked, what a surprise
07:58 punkman "David Byron kicked off all this madness about undetectable guns when he was issued a patent in 1987. Congress even tried to ban this as-of-yet unbuilt gun. That didn't stop Byron from hooking up with investors and starting a company focused on making this "plastic gun" a reality."
07:59 Mikayla aaaand I'm out
07:59 Mikayla cheers
07:59 punkman http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/10/05/what-happened-the-the-mythical-undetectable-plastic-gun/
07:59 punkman http://articles.latimes.com/1986-04-09/news/mn-3573_1_plastic-guns
08:01 punkman http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/22/local/la-me-tattoo-20110422
08:03 punkman ;;isitup log.bitcoin-assets.com
08:03 gribble Error: "isitup" is not a valid command.
08:04 punkman ;;isup log.bitcoin-assets.com
08:15 punkman this Byron guy is still innovating, now he's making armor. "Our current generation armor has been successfully tested up to .50 APM2." yeah right
08:15 punkman http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbyron
08:28 mats_cd03 http://www.bestgore.com/murder/isis-video-attack-tabqa-airbase-syria-professional-edit-release/
08:35 thestringpuller is gribble down?
08:35 thestringpuller ;;ping
08:35 gribble pong
08:36 thestringpuller ;;isup http://log.bitcoin-assets.com
08:36 gribble http://log.bitcoin-assets.com is down
08:39 thestringpuller I wonder if this huge push on sidechains is because the power rangers realize the blocksize ain't increasing anytime soon...
08:41 thestringpuller !up JimDowJones
~ 47 minutes ~
09:28 jurov re:ebama tent - my fkn hearing aids broadcast everything to each other
09:29 jurov prolly i can be never classified to work with usg sekrets
09:29 jurov or they'd have to make me a golden toilet new ones
~ 37 minutes ~
10:06 mike_c ;;isup bitbet.us
10:06 gribble bitbet.us is down
10:08 mats_cd03 wowzer
10:08 mats_cd03 i'm reading about how broken po-po radio crypto is
10:09 mats_cd03 die hard IRL
10:09 TomServo Regarding the /. article?
10:10 mats_cd03 http://www.crypto.com/papers/p25sec.pdf yar
10:11 mats_cd03 dunno how i missed this in 2011, ive been following travis goodspeed for as long
10:18 TomServo Cool paper, been meaning to do some reading on this.
10:19 TomServo Can anyone recommend a good SDR to play with?
10:20 jurov i just heard some TV gizmos are good for playing
10:21 mats_cd03 le hackrf is good
10:22 mats_cd03 https://greatscottgadgets.com/hackrf/
10:29 TomServo Thanks!
10:34 dignork TomServo: I've got this: http://www.amazon.com/NooElec-Previously-Compatible-Packages-Guaranteed/dp/B009U7WZCA but the jury is still out. gnuradio is a pain to configure, but hardware is recognized: http://dpaste.com/093MJ7H
10:49 TomServo dignork: Those look great for cheap quick exposure.. but I might like to support this hackrf thing just due to cool factor.
10:57 jurov punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key << ever heard of hash extension attack?
10:59 jurov it allows to add data in the end and update hash .. but not sure it can ve exploited here somehow
10:59 jurov bitcoin solves it by using double sha256, otherwise it's solved by using HMAC
11:03 punkman jurov, no secrets here, what will you attack with length extension
11:03 jurov that's the question.
11:03 jurov also, is base58 actually RFC-defined?
11:04 jurov i have some feeling it has its own dark corners
11:07 jurov brb
11:09 punkman I don't think it is, here's the implementation bot uses though: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/lib/bitcoin.py#L258
11:11 punkman (note it doesn't have checksum/version bytes like usual base58check used in addresses)
~ 23 minutes ~
11:34 dignork TomServo: it should be easier with HackRF, the guy even made some decent training videos: https://greatscottgadgets.com/sdr/
11:35 dignork And apparently it should work out of the box with pentoo
11:41 TomServo dignork: Just saw those, cool stuff. Might have to get one so I can resist the urge stepping up to one of these USRP beasts.
11:44 jurov punkman what if i secretly extend the bundle and make a payment to new addy
11:44 jurov and then make a fuss about it?
11:45 jurov it can be detected by fact that the payment did not go from deedbot's address but i still dislike this
11:45 mircea_popescu jurov but listen, the someone should be in l2 right ?
11:45 mircea_popescu they risk their ass doing asinine shit like that.
11:47 jurov you yourself gave some "just a voice" rating
11:47 jurov and it can be easily solved by terminating the list of deed hashes prior to final hashing
11:48 mircea_popescu jurov yes, but i myself can also take it away, and have, and will, if the person's obnoxious.
11:48 PeterL jurov so what if they add another deed, what would be the problem?
11:49 mircea_popescu that said, termination may also be an idea
11:49 jurov no real problem likely, just the obnoxiousness
11:50 PeterL the timestamp is based on the blockchain transaction, if they put another deed transaction on the blockchain it does not hurt the first one?
11:50 jurov it does not
11:50 jurov just makes it easier to fool someone as what was actually included
11:51 mircea_popescu that someone'd have to be kind-of foolish
11:51 mircea_popescu or maybe i don't actually understand this attack
11:51 jurov everyone has their moments
11:51 mircea_popescu lol
11:52 jurov cue my donation to b-a
11:52 PeterL I don't see any benefit the attacker would have over just submitting a deed to deedbot?
11:53 jurov only benefit is possiblity to (pruportedly) multiple versions of one bundle with perviously unknowns deeds to appear
11:54 punkman jurov, what's this "secretly extend bundle" attack
11:54 jurov nothing more and it can be resolved by checking of whether the tx originated from deedbot's piggy
11:55 punkman as in, take bundle, add another deed and make new bundle?
11:55 jurov yes
11:55 jurov and fool someone with it
11:55 jurov or try to
11:55 punkman yeah you gotta check it came from bot's address, verifier will do this
11:55 punkman .balance
11:55 punkbot punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.01614 BTC (0.0 unconfirmed), enough for 146 more bundles.
11:56 mike_c seems simple solution to put a terminator on bundle.
11:56 punkman I've also thought of signing the "lite" bundles
11:57 punkman mike_c: terminator?
11:57 mike_c yeah, a terminating sequence of bytes. then it can't be validly extended.
11:57 jurov like hash1+','+hash2+...+hashN+'/n'
11:58 punkman why can't it be extended?
11:58 mike_c because there would be a terminator in the middle.
11:58 mike_c and hence invalid.
11:59 punkman why, I can't put my deedN+1 before terminator?
11:59 mike_c no, hash attack is only adding a suffix
11:59 punkman what hash attack
11:59 punkman sha256 collisions?
11:59 jurov the fake bundle would be lent credibility by existing deed
11:59 jurov and you can't make it by adding new deed in the middle even now
12:00 jurov only to the end
12:01 jurov oh in fact it can be done
12:01 mike_c *.b-a is down atm, is that where the bot description is hosted?
12:02 punkman http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/ is up
12:02 jurov no there are only deeds
12:02 mike_c punkman, did you write up a doc on the bot or release some code? could be useful to get eyes on it.
12:03 punkman mike_c, will release code soon
12:03 mike_c k
12:03 jurov nothing stops anyone from creating their own bundles completely, to prevent it would need deedbot to have own key
12:03 jurov so my point rests. everyone gotta check it on blockchain
12:05 mircea_popescu !s removed satoshi
12:05 assbot 1 results for 'removed satoshi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=removed+satoshi
12:05 mircea_popescu mike_c log1. works
12:06 mircea_popescu lol look at that, reddit asks for bitcoin foundation to remove satoshi from its rolls, the fucktards react by removing satoshi from the bitcoin code they're raping.
12:07 mircea_popescu logic, usgavin style.
12:07 jurov The Bitcoin Foundation is an ineffectual consortium of self-interest, operating under the guise of benevolent advocacy. They need an enema.
12:08 jurov hahaha
12:08 jurov ben_vulpes: what about bitcoin-enema.org ?
12:08 asciilifeform removed satoshi <<< lol!!
12:09 asciilifeform can we remove them ?
12:09 PeterL when the bitcoin foundation was announced I figured I would just ignore it, I have not found a reason to change yet
12:14 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/#comment-109294 << lulz.
12:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, we can't. to remove them they'd have to at first somehow been included.
12:18 asciilifeform meant, from the code.
12:19 mircea_popescu yeah, take out the dumb shit.
12:20 * asciilifeform was always puzzled at how precisely an anonymus could hold copyright. picture 'Robin Hood (C) 1377.'
12:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform actually, satoshi was smart here. an anon holding copyright means that nobody else can claim it, and it can never be enforced.
12:20 mircea_popescu of course, us shitshow would reject this, but it's a perfectly valid approach.
12:21 asciilifeform could end up public domain ?
12:21 asciilifeform ianal.
12:21 mircea_popescu well, the difference is subtle.
12:21 mircea_popescu mentally compare the difference between an estate owned by nobody and commons
12:22 mircea_popescu (ie, an estate not owned by anybody)
12:22 asciilifeform there's a third setting on the dial - kolkhoz
12:22 mircea_popescu no, kolkhoz is exactly the british commons.
12:22 mircea_popescu just, a medieval institution, arguably inadequate for modern times.
12:23 asciilifeform but - plus a demented king running the show
12:23 mike_c dumbfruit's argument hurts my brain. he is saying that transactions are too cheap and therefore the block size limit should be removed?
12:23 mircea_popescu the brits had that.
12:23 mircea_popescu mike_c he is one of the word processors.
12:23 mircea_popescu he heard words and therefore words because words.
12:24 mike_c the new tragedy of the commons is that the commons have a voice.
12:25 mircea_popescu well, to be generous, it's not the voice that's the problem. it's the god awful pretense that one can understand things by guessing what words might mean "in context"
12:25 mircea_popescu the result is a very cruel mistreatment of human soft tissue.
12:29 asciilifeform http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/2kazw2/dont_run_strings_on_untrusted_files
12:29 asciilifeform ^ last night's anal orifice. someone posted.
12:31 asciilifeform (thx to diametric for the reddit find)
12:33 mircea_popescu <punkman> I've also thought of signing the "lite" bundles << seems redundant. sign once, which you do, with the tx.
12:33 mircea_popescu signing multiple times is inviting trouble.
12:35 asciilifeform possible explanation of anonymous copyrights in usa: USC § 302 (c) 'anonymous works' - http://copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html
12:36 asciilifeform (spoiler: in usa, anonymous is permitted to hold copyright, and can reveal himself and operate like ordinary copyright if he can prove authorship in some officially-recognized way)
12:36 mircea_popescu punkman: derp << that shit was so stupid...
12:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anon is permitted to hold copyright by bern convention, actually.
12:37 * asciilifeform wonders how the proof of authorship worked sans pgp
12:38 asciilifeform probably same as proof of inventor priority
12:38 asciilifeform that is, by public wankfest (opponents optional. no one contests - win)
12:38 mircea_popescu actually you'll hear hell from people trying to pretend that this is the right way, and pgp is XYZ FUDstuffs even today.
12:39 asciilifeform some 'people' value the 'freedom' to lie about everything and misrepresent anything.
12:39 mircea_popescu wait mikayla believes mila jovovich is NOT a carbon copy and unique ?!
12:39 mircea_popescu holy shit batman.
12:40 mircea_popescu chicks the fucking definition of "here, i found this model passed out in the bathroom"
12:43 mircea_popescu Naphex: a enterprise node, hook into trusted bitcoin core nodes over P2p protocol. Index and cache the data << this is not a bad idea.
12:45 mircea_popescu thestringpuller: I wonder if this huge push on sidechains is because the power rangers realize the blocksize ain't increasing anytime soon... << http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/
12:45 mircea_popescu Yet another one of them is that consumers revolt, entrepreneurs intervene, before the end of 2015 there’s about a thousand to a million different Bitcoin forks, each with its ten million-ish monetary base worth about a dollar, on global average. The size of the inter-Bitcoins market, the complexity and confusion ensuing makes pretty much everything unmanageable for the “ordinary person”
12:45 mircea_popescu two years ago yo.
12:46 mircea_popescu "On the balance of probabilities this would seem the most likely outcome, strictly because history unerringly flows in that direction which most cruely rapes the “average person”."
12:46 mircea_popescu fuck me i'm good.
12:47 Adlai it'll be funny to see markets between the same "bitcoin" asset on different blockchains... reminds me a bit of goxBTC
12:47 Naphex mircea_popescu: aye and much needed, with all those people wanting to implement all kinds of solutions based on blockchain data
12:47 mircea_popescu jurov: prolly i can be never classified to work with usg sekrets <<< you saw i lolled at the "medical devices" part yes ? :D
12:47 jurov yes
12:47 mircea_popescu Naphex problem being they also want to do it for free, but mayhap there's a solution for that.
12:48 mircea_popescu jurov anyway, you should prolly apply, then you can sue for unfair treatment
12:48 mircea_popescu keep them busy for 20 years.
12:48 asciilifeform this is where 'we only hire aryans but won't say so' comes in very handy.
12:49 jurov or they put mandatory crypto for medical devices into law
12:49 jurov long overdue
12:49 mircea_popescu ha
12:49 mircea_popescu hahhahahahaha
12:49 asciilifeform see also d. cheney's pacemaker
12:49 mircea_popescu funny man
12:50 asciilifeform (rumour was, famously, that he commissioned a custom one)
12:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform custom pacemakers have been the norm for not-poor people for what, 20 years ?
12:50 asciilifeform custom in the sense of signed firmware loader
12:50 mircea_popescu ah
12:52 asciilifeform so, to continue last night's thread - am i stuck merging turdatron patches? or is one of you folks willing to be the sapper.
12:53 mircea_popescu you familiar with that ancient game of cuckoo ?
12:53 mircea_popescu he who speaks gets it.
12:53 asciilifeform !s cuckoo nagant
12:53 assbot 1 results for 'cuckoo nagant' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=cuckoo+nagant
12:53 asciilifeform that one?
12:54 mircea_popescu for instance.
12:54 asciilifeform lol
12:55 mircea_popescu good games are always abstraction of real life mechanisms.
12:56 * asciilifeform gulps
12:57 kakobrekla game of cuckoo < i once sent a guy to hospital cause of that game :\
12:57 ben_vulpes <jurov> ben_vulpes: what about bitcoin-enema.org ? f9beb4d9.org
12:57 asciilifeform kakobrekla is good shot!
12:57 kakobrekla no guns involved
12:58 kakobrekla its a long story, we were kids, i got carried away, is all.
12:59 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: is the mailing list up?
12:59 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it's jurov's
12:59 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i assume he'll wake us up when it's time
12:59 ben_vulpes and i didn't see any good suggestions re "what is the output of a 'merge'?"
12:59 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes either you or mod6 gotta start managing people!
12:59 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: output of a merge is a buildable tree.
13:00 asciilifeform (or garbage, depending on the merge!)
13:00 asciilifeform this is very basic stuff
13:00 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i have one of those on me local machine
13:00 asciilifeform traditionally, it is not unreasonable to demand that a patch not annihilate the buildability of the overall turd.
13:01 ben_vulpes now im mulling what to publish
13:02 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: original suggestion was a 'linus-style' scheme where we all sign & mail in patches, and one of us plays the part of 'Linus' and merges, signing the resulting trees
13:03 asciilifeform the latter also has the duty of being 'sapper' and trying very much not to err.
13:03 asciilifeform that is, to judge patches, play devil's advocate, test resulting builds.
13:04 ben_vulpes that latter's a tough one.
13:04 ben_vulpes testing bitcoin builds.
13:05 asciilifeform live-fire test of -everything- is non-trivial, yes.
13:05 asciilifeform and, inescapably - slow.
13:05 asciilifeform in fact, good portions of the original have never been 'live-fire' tested, afaik
13:06 asciilifeform (the 'ddos mitigation' stuff, for example)
13:06 mircea_popescu actually, bluematt did maybe 2/3 of bitcoin testing to date.
13:06 asciilifeform !s bluematt
13:06 assbot 26 results for 'bluematt' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bluematt
13:06 mircea_popescu the guy that made the recent tx relay streamline thing
13:06 asciilifeform is he alive? where does he stand?
13:07 mircea_popescu alive, yes. standing... hard to say. shy of politics ?
13:07 ben_vulpes so i've cobbled together a testing stack that builds and boots this build as I mentioned last night. next things that i'd like to do with it is attach it to testnet; and stand up a server non-locally to run these builds.
13:08 ben_vulpes but fiatcorp calls at precisely this moment, and i must leave ye all for the meantime.
13:08 mircea_popescu however, he doesn't hold a large balance, maybe that's the first thing bitcoin foundation can spend on
13:08 mircea_popescu pay for testing
13:08 ben_vulpes not a bad notion at all
13:09 * asciilifeform willing to test for fee, but will not try to fight for contract against well-known aficionados
13:09 mircea_popescu we see how this works out.
13:11 punkman ;;isup bitbet.us
13:12 gribble bitbet.us is down
13:12 * asciilifeform will not be able to resist the temptation to build and test for free, but cannot promise to do this on a usably-frequent basis without compensation. is already doing rather many time-consuming things, not all of which bring in food.
13:13 asciilifeform let the real heros stand up.
13:16 asciilifeform http://xkcd.com/1439 << where did that beekeeping person go?
13:19 kakobrekla imma guess he is at hetzner atm.
13:27 asciilifeform mats_cd03: what antenna do you use with your sdr ?
13:28 TomServo asciilifeform: Is there an SDR you'd recommend?
13:29 mats_cd03 asciilifeform: i use the ANT500 mossmann sells with the hackrf
13:30 asciilifeform TomServo: i have only the cheapest. the famous rtl dongle, and an ancient rs232-controlled 'icom' box.
13:30 asciilifeform rx only.
13:32 asciilifeform hackrf << appears to be sold out everywhere?
13:32 * asciilifeform imagines gigantic crate in crematorium at fort meade
13:33 TomServo sold out everywhere? < Was my impression also. Though some sites say they'll be restocked early 2015
13:33 asciilifeform restocked << what, another 100 units?
13:33 asciilifeform wonder if they're hand-made.
13:34 * asciilifeform wonders whether vendor is 'having problems' - considering that sdr is technically banned in usa
13:38 TomServo 2014-09-09 Note: We have sold out and are waiting on the next production run batch which will be delivered in a few months. We are sorry for the wait, but if you pre-order now we will send you a $20 gift certificate.
13:39 TomServo From Hackerwarehouse.com
13:40 TomServo asciilifeform: Didja check out the (pricier) options from ettus.com also?
13:43 asciilifeform TomServo: $5k - might as well be $5mil
13:43 mats_cd03 13:34:45 — +asciilifeform wonders whether vendor is 'having problems' - considering that sdr is technically banned in usa << hows that? ham operators have had SDR for at least a decade, no mutterings as to illegality afaik
13:43 * asciilifeform ragged dervish
13:44 asciilifeform mats_cd03: same ancient law that technically bans open-source 802.11 baseband fw
13:47 * asciilifeform astonished to find that 'hackrf' is built in 'kicad.' this must mean that someone, somewhere, got it usefully running.
13:47 asciilifeform almost certainly under winblows.
13:49 diametric asciilifeform: i know a guy that uses kicad religiously
13:49 diametric under linux too.
13:50 diametric he makes laser controller boards with it.
13:50 diametric http://www.macpod.net/electronics/lasershark/lasershark.php this guy to be specific.
13:55 TomServo asciilifeform: $5k - might as well be $5mil << For a toy, I agree...though they have some 'board only' options that come in the 675-1100 range.
14:09 nubbins` hi
14:10 TomServo Ahoy nubbins`
14:13 nubbins` anyone got logs for past couple days
14:13 nubbins` this continued ddosing sure is making it ever-so-slightly-more-difficult to catch up on happenings
14:13 kakobrekla use log1
14:13 nubbins` tyvm
14:13 jurov $proxues
14:14 jurov $proxies
14:14 empyex jurov: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.biz mpex.co mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
14:14 empyex jurov: MPEx-Status: mpex.co (102 milliseconds), mpex.biz (103 milliseconds), mpex.bz (114 milliseconds), mpex.ws (277 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (719 milliseconds)
14:14 empyex jurov: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
14:17 * kakobrekla would suggest abbreviating 'milliseconds'
14:26 jurov FabianB_: ^
~ 35 minutes ~
15:01 BingoBoingo Ebola general http://fortressamerica.gawker.com/army-quarantines-ebola-fighting-general-1651311789/+laceydonohue
15:07 kakobrekla lolk: http://shrani.si/f/Z/LM/2CeZjpsM/no-irc.png
15:11 artifexd kakobrekla: Where is that from?
15:11 kakobrekla some derp host obv
~ 19 minutes ~
15:31 cazalla punkman: I read "coinscrum" as "coinscrotum" for a second there <<< you're not the only one
15:39 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2014/10/dailydot-what-happened-to-the-ulbricht-murder-charges/
15:41 TomServo BingoBoingo: Nice work, was hoping you guys would cover that.
15:41 BingoBoingo TomServo: Yeah I was away from the desk this weekend, and it took a bit to dig the relevant parts and boil them to qntra style.
15:43 mircea_popescu <TomServo> 2014-09-09 Note: We have sold out and are waiting on the next production run batch which will be delivered in a few months. We are sorry for the wait, but if you pre-order now we will send you a $20 gift certificate. <<< this is so braindamaged.
15:43 mircea_popescu what happened to "we are sold out. if you want to preorder it's going to be $100 extra. if you do not want to preorder, you can have it when we get it, at a $250 surcharge"
15:44 cazalla that torrentlocker italian malware i posted about yesterday seems to be hitting some local australian council now heh, i won't write this up as same story diff location but if anyone was interested http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/2654270/cyber-attack-mildura-businesses-held-to-ransom-by-computer-malware-hackers/
15:44 mircea_popescu maybe make one of those updates "this just in"
15:45 mircea_popescu !up bitspill_
15:45 cazalla actually, might do that
15:47 mircea_popescu !up pleego
15:47 mircea_popescu !up mariorz
15:47 TomServo mircea_popescu: I suppose that would work if there weren't a handful of other sites "selling" it also.
15:48 mircea_popescu well, it would work in the following way : those other sites get sold out, you still have a stock.
15:48 TomServo Never did see one in stock though.
15:48 mircea_popescu then you use the extra to make an exclusive deal with the supplier and that's that.
15:48 mircea_popescu usians are practically anticapitalist by now.
15:50 mircea_popescu kakobrekla: some derp host obv << "banned software" ? wtf is wrong with these people.
15:51 mircea_popescu this is roughly like someone purporting to have an appartment for rent, comes with a "list of forbidden activities" : no opposite sex visitors, no masturbating, no drinking, no playing videogames
15:52 kakobrekla at least they accept bitcoin.
15:52 mircea_popescu pshhh
15:52 mircea_popescu PinkPosixPXE you making that bitcoin host yet ?
15:53 kakobrekla well since they infact accept it, i will reveal them https://incloudibly.net/en/ << artifexd
15:53 mircea_popescu shitty "cloud" vms meh.
15:53 kakobrekla they can also scam you with a dedi
15:53 TomServo wins shitty name comp tho
15:53 kakobrekla dun worry
15:55 mircea_popescu http://40.media.tumblr.com/e447ccf403ce8d421812a64c3c76ddfb/tumblr_myrbbpUozF1rpf3hvo1_500.jpg
15:56 mircea_popescu !up nhanH
16:03 cazalla http://qntra.net/2014/10/torrentlocker-hits-mildura-based-businesses/ bit extra info
16:06 kakobrekla !up nhanH
16:08 danielpbarron cazalla, the bitcoin trader video was taken down; is it mirrored anywhere?
16:09 cazalla danielpbarron, http://vimeo.com/95482020
16:11 danielpbarron cazalla, tyvm
16:12 Naphex "LedgerX Gets Google, Lightspeed Backing to Set Up Regulated Bitcoin Futures Exchange"
16:12 Naphex http://pevc.dowjones.com/article?an=DJFVW00120141027eaaraplay
16:14 ben_vulpes neat! a dose of legitimacy.
16:14 Naphex they're apperantly htting the presses with it
16:14 Naphex http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2014/10/27/ledgerx-hopes-to-establish-first-u-s-regulated-futures-exchange-for-bitcoin/
16:15 Naphex "LedgerX Hopes to Establish First U.S.-Regulated Futures Exchange for Bitcoin"
16:15 mircea_popescu yet another one of these ?
16:15 mike_c first best
16:15 bounce ``Supporters of the company [...], believe that a U.S.-regulated, U.S.-based futures exchange for bitcoin would settle down some of the volatility of bitcoin prices'' -- because US awesomeness and USG rules fix everything
16:18 mircea_popescu doubt there's that much interest for usd futures, but hey.
16:19 mircea_popescu i imagine the idea is that perhaps bitcoin futures may be made to work like gold futures. which won't work, but hey, if google got too much dough we can always take some.
16:21 Naphex it will probably take lots
16:21 Naphex as people get closer to their realization points
16:23 BingoBoingo <gribble> Rating change | Old rating -10 | New rating: jason > -10 > ninjashogun | Begs for ratings, expects to gain -OTC ratings through 'relationships' rather than trades but not will even reveal his name, goes crazy with name-calling and baseless scam allegations. Judge for yourself: http://pastebin.com/kLUHRrda
16:33 pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/27/the-revolution-was-fiat-the-reaction-is-bitcoin/ << a long one for you (yes you!)
16:37 diametric couldn't find anything easily in the log, whats up with bitbet? ddos?
16:40 kakobrekla bee hive possibly
16:41 kakobrekla on a more serious note, yes.
16:49 mircea_popescu lol BingoBoingo i guess that guy's a troll!
16:50 BingoBoingo I guess they have to be
16:58 mircea_popescu !up selltoshi
17:03 mircea_popescu !isup blogs.bitcoin-assets.com
17:03 mircea_popescu i don't recall, was that supposed to work or not work ?
17:03 mircea_popescu ;;isup blogs.bitcoin-assets.com
17:03 gribble blogs.bitcoin-assets.com is down
17:04 ben_vulpes wasn't PeterL going to set up a new blogs.ba
17:04 ben_vulpes ?
17:05 mircea_popescu i think i saw something at some point tested maybe ?
17:05 los_pantalones mircea_popescu i can't believe how much $ the ledgerX guys raised
↖
17:05 mircea_popescu ;;later tell peterl what's the status on the rss thing ?
17:05 gribble The operation succeeded.
17:05 mircea_popescu los_pantalones why not ?
17:05 los_pantalones i've been on a few of due diligence calls for them
17:05 mircea_popescu not like dollars are worth anything
17:05 los_pantalones ha
17:06 los_pantalones well, i mean relative to other companies in the space
17:06 mircea_popescu los_pantalones you gotta understand, this is not economic activity, this is political activity.
17:10 mike_c http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2014#894456
17:10 assbot Logged on 25-10-2014 01:11:55; PeterL: mircea_popescu: scoopbot is a replacement for penguiker
17:10 mircea_popescu a yes ty
17:11 mike_c los_pantalones: (if not prying) what firm are you with that you were doing diligence on them?
17:15 mircea_popescu til wget has no fucking way to specify maximum ram usage
17:18 BingoBoingo lol <gribble> Rating change | Old rating -10 | New rating: jason > -10 > ninjashogun | Begs for ratings, expects to gain -OTC ratings through 'relationships' rather than trades but not will even reveal his name, goes crazy with name-calling and baseless scam allegations. | Update: threatens retaliation: https://www.zerobin.net/?f68049f827a4c22b#gJAbVHDgwklVp6uiF5etTGF8SRBz1ygeewdsHuQkMYI=
17:20 mircea_popescu http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1236166619_unzipping_the_internet.gif
17:21 BingoBoingo <ninjashogun> hi
17:21 BingoBoingo <ninjashogun> this is a scammer - you can read my convo with him here:
17:21 BingoBoingo <ninjashogun> http://pastebin.com/sCAJXL3f
17:21 BingoBoingo <ninjashogun> please pastebin into channel too
17:22 mike_c I know the answer!
17:23 Azelphur haha, that dude is a bit of a tool
17:23 Azelphur he has been ranting in #bitcoin-bans for ages now
17:24 mike_c yeah, he's been here plenty.
17:25 Azelphur ninja I mean, to be clear
17:25 Azelphur basically, everybody in this conversation is a tool
17:25 Azelphur by this conversation, I mean the pastebin :P
17:25 bounce such drama
17:27 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3NYBN0V.txt )
17:27 BingoBoingo !b 3
17:36 thickasthieves gawd i'm in logs purgatory
17:36 thickasthieves you gais talk too much
17:37 kakobrekla shutup
17:37 thickasthieves true, i'm just gonna have to read this later
17:45 ben_vulpes quickly generate more logs for thickasthieves
17:45 kakobrekla make the lines very long so he will never be able to catch up
17:46 ben_vulpes 33MB lines when
17:46 kakobrekla ircd patch when
17:48 cazalla ben_vulpes, conformal are yet to get back to me
17:48 BingoBoingo http://www.theawl.com/2014/10/rewriting-history-in-real-time-a-social-media-guide
17:48 xanthyos <+asciilifeform> http://xkcd.com/1439 << where did that beekeeping person go?
17:48 mike_c it's in the lawgs. hetzner.
17:48 xanthyos <+asciilifeform> http://xkcd.com/1439 << where did that beekeeping person go? << #foodfight on EFNet
17:49 ben_vulpes cazalla: what did you actually ask them? i eventually realized that the 32mb line is the nominal largest size of a p2p message.
17:50 cazalla pretty much this http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#896425
17:50 assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 04:06:13; ben_vulpes: cazalla: did you hear back from Conformal about the machines they used to come to their 32MB steady-state conclusion?
17:52 ben_vulpes http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit << /me is amused at the "lisp/django" comparison
17:52 ben_vulpes ah cazalla yeah yeah
17:52 ben_vulpes didja comment on their blorg?
17:54 mats_cd03 kako and ben are so cute together
18:00 mats_cd03 http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/27/politics/soldiers-monitored-ebola/
18:00 mats_cd03 i loled
18:05 mats_cd03 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/26/green-berets-tell-of-afghan-national-army-soldiers << green berets telling everybody who didn't already know the ANA is useless
18:07 mats_cd03 even afghan peasants are smarter than USG, apparently
18:07 mats_cd03 everybody in the region except the US knows they'll have to negotiate with the taliban five years from now
18:08 BingoBoingo From the archives, USG buys pocket knives https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=86f51450ff84fb939de39f439f140f70&tab=core&tabmode=list&print_preview=1
18:09 mats_cd03 unreachable
18:09 jurov sooo... got two mailman installations with gpg patch, one rejects everything as "bad signature" the other accepts even usigned stuff despite configured not to
18:10 jurov /o\
18:10 assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3PAVD4T.txt )
18:10 kakobrekla !b 2
18:10 jurov gotta debug
18:10 kakobrekla dont worry bash is down.
18:11 assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1M35DV1.txt )
18:11 jurov !b 2
18:11 kakobrekla lol
18:12 kakobrekla lol DO is being totally retarded
18:12 kakobrekla maybe time to test retardation levels at vultr
18:13 punkman I wouldn't expect vultr to be better but who knows
18:14 kakobrekla well, its not hard to beat "hi you have incoming ddos, I understand this can be frustrating as this type of attack is usually a sign that your droplet has been compromised"
18:15 kakobrekla srsly.
18:15 los_pantalones mike_c still in here?
18:16 kakobrekla they are basically saying "hello idiot, put shoe on head, banana in anus to fix ddos"
18:17 kakobrekla im totaly fine if they take the machine down for the needed period
18:17 kakobrekla but i will not dance bananas.
18:20 mike_c los_pantalones: yeah
18:20 los_pantalones we provide btc liquidity otc and on exchange
18:20 los_pantalones over 185k traded last 30 days
18:20 mike_c impressive. who is "we"?
18:21 kakobrekla which ex?
18:21 los_pantalones company i work for, i would tell you if i were in on my company pgp but i'm using my personal here
18:21 los_pantalones most
18:21 los_pantalones we don't touch bitstamp
18:21 kakobrekla :D
18:21 los_pantalones directly
18:21 kakobrekla ...
18:21 kakobrekla lol
18:21 kakobrekla all roads lead to buttstamp
18:21 kakobrekla close to rome too.
18:21 los_pantalones yeah, odd arrangement but you can trade on bitstamp via coinsetter
18:21 kakobrekla geographically i mean.
18:21 los_pantalones works better for us legally
18:22 kakobrekla ah coinsetter idiots
18:22 kakobrekla nvm, carry on.
18:22 los_pantalones anyway, we make investments here and there but mostly trade
18:22 los_pantalones and luckily i get to take calls from VC looking at companies
18:22 cazalla http://qntra.net/2014/10/blackmailers-pay-us-one-million-euro-in-bitcoin-or-we-will-spread-ebola/
18:22 los_pantalones those are fun calls
18:22 mike_c how's the bear market treating you?
18:22 los_pantalones great
18:23 los_pantalones super busy
18:24 los_pantalones i try to push everyone into here, most haven't taken me up on it
18:24 kakobrekla only idiots use irc.
18:25 pete_dushenski cazalla first drugs, now disease, next clubbing baby seals.
18:25 pete_dushenski los_pantalones be more selective?
18:26 pete_dushenski kakobrekla irc is dangerous because it uses passwords, y'know
18:26 los_pantalones pete_dushenski it's not like i'm suggesting hundreds of people come in here, just the guys who end up on .derp
18:27 pete_dushenski .derp ?
18:27 kakobrekla lol
18:27 kakobrekla pete, mpex issued derp
18:29 pete_dushenski ;;later tell DanielKrawisz Looking forward to seeing you rationalize this gem of a comment in the public forum: "No, more nodes arent more secure. A full node is valuable to the one running it, not anyone else"
18:29 gribble The operation succeeded.
18:30 pete_dushenski kakobrekla i musta missed how people go from mpex to using los_pantalones for btc liquidity?
18:31 kakobrekla i think theres a misunderstanding going on here.
18:32 kakobrekla sending people to ba is not relevant to btc liquidity
18:32 pete_dushenski o! i got it now. my bad.
18:33 pete_dushenski i understood los_pantalones as saying that people who "ended up on .derp" were traders, not the actual fucking derps!
18:33 pete_dushenski lol
18:35 pete_dushenski heh twitter lost another $175mn this quarter. such business those guys
18:35 kakobrekla 33mb tweets?
18:35 pete_dushenski this represents a 200% greater loss than last year while revenue doubled.
18:37 pete_dushenski kakobrekla twitter needs bigger nodes.
18:39 pete_dushenski !s taleb ebola
18:39 assbot 0 results for 'taleb ebola' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=taleb+ebola
18:39 pete_dushenski ok then: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8nhAlfIk3QIdlJNSXo1dkMzOVU/view
18:39 pete_dushenski Taleb: Ebola, including model error.
18:46 pete_dushenski hmm do comments not yield trackbacks?
18:46 pete_dushenski didn't see one for this: http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/#comment-109294
19:00 cazalla ben_vulpes: didja comment on their blorg? <<< i'll give em time to respond via email first
19:15 PeterL mircea_popescu: rss thing ... I am working on it, it is almost ready, I think, just need to work out a few bugs and clean up my code some
~ 58 minutes ~
20:13 Adlai https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2khvc5/fincen_issues_two_administrative_rulings/
20:14 Adlai TIL linden dollar exchanges are registered MSBs
20:19 BingoBoingo Adlai: I'm working on a write up atm on those
20:21 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: dude you gotta stop your blog from opening up links in new tabs
20:23 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes uh no?
20:23 pete_dushenski why would i do that?
20:24 ben_vulpes vile fucking practice, destroying the browse history.
20:24 cazalla question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products?
20:25 PeterL is there a way to change that behavior in your local browser?
20:25 punkman cazalla: not rly
20:25 ben_vulpes also pete_dushenski your content div scrolls sideways
20:25 cazalla punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons."
20:26 PeterL cazella: maybe they are not making good entropy and are embarrased to admit it?
20:26 ben_vulpes cazalla: only if you're depending on DO for your noise.
20:27 jurov sugh, this is worse than obola.. i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain
20:27 PeterL If it is something like "pick a certain digit of pi to start at" then it would be a security breach to expose what you are doing
20:27 jurov base64, quoted printable, oh my
20:27 asciilifeform kakobrekla: no-irc << story here. a good fraction of irc bots are malware c&c commanders. hosting firms hate them, they draw fire (from upstream isp)
20:27 ben_vulpes PeterL: yeah sure, custom stylesheet for contravex.com clobbering target="_blank"
20:27 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes hm let me mull it over
20:28 ben_vulpes but as i said, clobbering the back-button when reading hyperlinked documents is...
20:28 ben_vulpes well you fill in that ellipses yourself.
20:28 kakobrekla <cazalla> punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons." < if its a bad implementation, you in fact increase attack surface even further
20:29 punkman and that's a good reason?
20:29 kakobrekla didnt say that
20:29 kakobrekla everything is terrible
20:29 asciilifeform cazalla: is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy << your crystal ball's answer is correct.
20:30 asciilifeform cazalla: same reason mircea_popescu won't post his neutered bitcoind source tree.
20:30 asciilifeform cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose
20:31 kakobrekla same as with signing any code.
20:31 asciilifeform jurov: i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain <<<<< mircea_popescu << our thread last night.
20:31 asciilifeform kakobrekla: signing code << can be a hero for the motherland.
20:31 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes it's a bit odd that the sidescroll shows up in firefox and safari but not opera. what're you using?
20:31 cazalla so really, it's more a question of why buy physical coins to begin with than getting to the point of asking how they generated the private keys used for the priv address inside the coin
20:32 punkman asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools
20:32 * asciilifeform will sign own code (cardano) with 'will die by this' seal. will not sign other folks' code, unless compensated to actually put in the time to play 'reverse underhanded c contest.' << not cheap
20:32 kakobrekla but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools < we call the rand() function. twice.
20:33 asciilifeform physical coins << anyone who buys private keys, deserves to pay for the sin
20:34 kakobrekla yeah casascius is basically a scammer for not scamming
20:34 asciilifeform kakobrekla: 'the gears grind slowly but they grind infinitely fine.'
20:34 kakobrekla hehe
20:36 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: chrome
20:36 asciilifeform he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ?
20:36 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes zomg
20:37 pete_dushenski anyways, i'll look in to it :)
20:37 cazalla pete_dushenski, where did the women go btw
20:37 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2014/10/fincen-payment-processors-others-may-be-regulated-money-transmitters/
20:38 pete_dushenski cazalla they were lost in the hosting changeover and have yet to reappear. they may still or they may not.
20:38 asciilifeform punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe?
20:39 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: also opera lol
20:40 punkman I got a coin in the works btw
20:40 kakobrekla physical ?
20:41 punkman yeah, not sure if it will have space for sticker though
20:41 punkman maybe just an art thing
20:41 kakobrekla funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead.
20:42 Adlai https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=1210409 ctrl-f bitcoin and laff
20:42 asciilifeform Adlai: dead link?
20:42 kakobrekla no worky
20:43 Adlai here it is with all the tracking crap... https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=1210409&JobReqLang=1&partnerid=25404&siteid=5602&Codes=TD103
20:44 * Adlai must've had some tracking crap in his browser already
20:44 Adlai tl;dr: "emerging payment systems (eg Bitcoin, Paypal, Square)"
20:44 * Adlai likes the order
20:45 * kakobrekla waits for "10 years bitcoin experience required" in 2014.
20:45 BingoBoingo https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/526897263482654721
20:45 assbot Today's /hashtag/FinCEN?src=hash /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hash rulings Deturdified, because Fuck PDFs http://t.co/sIOYOjmmbz
20:46 asciilifeform !s 3 ani experienta
20:46 assbot 3 results for '3 ani experienta' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=3+ani+experienta
20:47 BingoBoingo Starfish virginity protection methods: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm
20:48 asciilifeform ^ classic text
20:48 asciilifeform see also:
20:48 asciilifeform ;;google knife folsom prison
20:48 gribble Put 'Em Down, Take 'Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From ...: <http://www.amazon.com/Put-Down-Take-Out-Techniques/dp/0873644840>; Knife Fighting : About Folsom Knife Fighting - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGVcoMJx-zw>; Put Em Down, Take Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques from Folsom ...: <http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1744698.Put_Em_Down_Take_Em_Out_>
20:48 asciilifeform ^ a kind of sequel
20:49 bounce 7+ year "technical leadership" in webmonkeying?
20:59 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes sidescrolling fixed on opera/ff/safari, how's it look on chromeski?
21:00 jurov asciilifeform << our thread last night << now i wonder why nobody's reusing ascii control characters (C0)
21:01 jurov C0 reserved for asciilifeforms?
21:01 asciilifeform jurov: because they get silently snipped by a thousand tools ?
21:01 asciilifeform and aha, yes.
21:01 jurov for example?
21:01 asciilifeform 'strings'.
21:01 asciilifeform your www broser (likely)
21:02 asciilifeform better question, what -doesn't- lose them
21:02 jurov how does a browser use them?
21:02 asciilifeform loses
21:02 asciilifeform not uses
21:03 * asciilifeform would be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong about this
21:03 jurov oh that. only if tim berners lee used them for html instead of <>"'
21:03 asciilifeform we're still paying for the ill manners of ill-behaved 1970s 'glass tty' terminals.
21:05 jurov ^F
21:06 jurov ^ was supposed to ACK
21:08 * asciilifeform half-seriously suggests using otherwise worthless unicode chars for pgp control codes. e.g., babylonian cuneiform.
21:08 * asciilifeform is not pleased that these are presently more widely supported than the complete ascii set. but it's a fact.
21:09 asciilifeform ☭☭☭☭☭☭
21:11 bounce more elegant to invent your own pgp control script complete with glyphs and have it accepted in the unicode standard
21:14 PeterL what control would the characters have?
21:15 jurov instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars
21:15 asciilifeform PeterL: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897500
21:15 assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.
21:15 asciilifeform discussion of why jurov's turdatron is stuck using detached gpg signatures
21:26 jurov https://coinchimp.com/ so...it has come to this
21:27 mats_cd03 thats a nice picture of a chimp
21:28 jurov lol on their on "warning" page:
21:28 jurov That's just basic classical economics. Scammers don't last long in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
21:29 jurov We are MUCH safer than the other exchanges, each of which has spawned a huge list of horror stories from disgrunted customers.
21:29 jurov they forgot to mention they are amazing
21:29 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
21:30 kakobrekla https://coinchimp.com/themes/btc_public/assets/imgs/mainpromo.jpg
21:30 kakobrekla lolk
21:30 kakobrekla better than mtgox, they say.
21:33 decimation asciilifeform: is this because base64?
21:33 jurov decimation: no, it uses dash escaping
21:33 asciilifeform decimation: gpg 'escapes' minus signs.
21:33 jurov which mutilates patches
21:33 decimation lol
21:33 cazalla that's racist!
21:34 jurov cazalla: what?
21:34 decimation why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits?
21:34 decimation like, are they going to send it on a 5-bit teletype?
21:34 cazalla jurov, referring to kakobrekla's coinchimp image.. hey if it was good enough for people to say mailchimp was vaguely racist..
21:35 asciilifeform because -----BEGIN FUCKTARDATION----- .... ------END FUCKTARDATION
21:35 decimation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_cipher
21:35 decimation I see.
21:37 decimation c-machine implementation of characters is enraging
21:37 decimation I think you had that rant a few months ago on that topic
21:39 asciilifeform decimation: http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/not-all-programmers-alike/#comment-3676
21:39 decimation someone should make a --cccp flag that enables ☭ as the BOM/EOM char for gpg
21:40 asciilifeform see also: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3036079150517560@arcana.naggum.no.html
21:40 decimation yeah, characters are properly objects with a variety of attributes, not numbers
21:41 decimation it does seem like unicode is a natural fit for lisp
21:41 asciilifeform unicode is still braindamaged
21:41 decimation I think most folk use UTF8
21:41 asciilifeform no way to cleanly define local glyphs
21:41 asciilifeform in any extant system
21:42 asciilifeform it's as if we were still using teletype
21:42 asciilifeform why are we emulating drum printers?
21:42 decimation actually it's a tacit admission that computers suck
21:42 decimation no one has the will/ability to make better software until hardware to use it rolls around
21:43 asciilifeform in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more.
21:43 asciilifeform because 'that's just how computer works, didntcha stay awake in school'
21:44 decimation Another reason why chars suck is the endian problem
21:44 * Adlai mutters something about local readtables
21:44 asciilifeform nothing to do with readtables
21:44 decimation you are stuck with 8 bits if you don't want to constantly guess at endianness
21:44 Adlai what exactly are we trying to do here
21:44 mircea_popescu !up Abelincoln
21:44 asciilifeform Adlai: which 'we', which 'here' ?
21:45 Abelincoln whats up this is abe lincoln talking from the dead yo
21:45 Adlai asciilifeform: we = same we that are emulating drum printers, here = our efforts to go beyond drum printers
21:45 decimation abe you were a murderous tyrant who birthed modern usg
21:46 asciilifeform decimation: also 100 to 1 he's 'meow mix'
21:47 mircea_popescu brendio ?!
21:48 decimation I have a question about deedbot
21:48 decimation is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time?
21:49 decimation one would imagine that keeping the pile of all past deeds would become cumbersome
21:49 mircea_popescu uh ?!
21:49 asciilifeform !
21:49 mircea_popescu dude it grows 100% a year haven't you heard ?
21:49 asciilifeform didn't we do this already
21:49 asciilifeform in babylon.
21:49 asciilifeform ended badly, iirc
21:50 decimation well, I was thinking about undata's problem
21:50 mircea_popescu knapsacks grow faster than things to put in them!
21:50 mircea_popescu by order of usgavin
21:50 asciilifeform 'bag of holding' !
21:50 decimation imagine a century from now, someone wants to verify a deed - he would need to transmit potentially millions of deed hashes
21:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform bag of treasuries.
21:50 Adlai decimation: s/deed/transaction/
21:50 mircea_popescu decimation wait wut ?
21:51 mircea_popescu you only need to verify the bundle in question
21:51 * Adlai is a little curious about this deed stuf
21:51 decimation well, if the hash of the bundle is included in the bundle, how did the hash end up in the bundle?
21:51 asciilifeform http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3127703943282468@naggum.no.html << more re character representation
21:51 thestringpuller !s from:mircea_popescu sha1
21:51 assbot 4 results for 'from:mircea_popescu sha1' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+sha1
21:52 mircea_popescu decimation all submitted deeds during one hour go in the same bundle./
21:52 Adlai asciilifeform: thx
21:53 decimation okay, so each bundle has a hash, and the privkey of that bundle is the hash of the list of all past hashes
21:53 mircea_popescu dude omg. not like he didn't say and get quoted x times.
21:53 mircea_popescu !s from:punkman hash
21:53 assbot 13 results for 'from:punkman hash' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Apunkman+hash
21:53 mircea_popescu http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286
21:53 assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
21:54 BingoBoingo https://coinfire.cf/2014/10/27/sec-begins-sending-investigation-letters/ << Coinfire has more people supposing important letters
21:54 asciilifeform 'A character and its encoding are different concepts. An encoding and its (external) representation are different concepts. An external representation and the numeric values of whatever unit it is made up of are different concepts. By conflating all four concepts into one, Unix has held text processing and computing in general back several decades. This is fairly ironic, since Unix started out as a text proce
21:54 asciilifeform ssing vehicle.' ( http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3226037188416051@naggum.net.html )
21:54 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo we probably should send them some letters too.
21:55 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: All of the letters, entire doctors full of letters.
21:55 decimation I guess it's not worth worrying about until there's an uptake in deedbot usage
21:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform eh i don't even agree. fuck all this subtlety of amuk idiocy. a character, its encoding, the representation thereof and its numeric value are all THE SAME THING. forever.
21:55 mircea_popescu anyone trying to divorce any of these gets to burn in hell.
21:55 mircea_popescu 27 letters and fuck you.
21:55 asciilifeform - and --- forever.
21:55 asciilifeform tidididahdahdah...
21:55 mircea_popescu fixed offset.
21:56 mircea_popescu NO PASARAN
21:56 * asciilifeform dusts off telegraph key
21:56 decimation .... .. - .... . .-. .
21:56 asciilifeform shortwavecoin awaits.
21:56 mircea_popescu -. --- / .--. .- ... .- .-. .- -.
21:57 decimation bitcoin <is> shortwavecoin
21:57 thestringpuller ... --- ...
21:58 bounce also, one case. only. ever.
21:58 asciilifeform OK
21:58 mircea_popescu AND NOW WE'RE BACK TO THE ORIGINAL LISP DISCUNTSION.
21:59 asciilifeform 101
21:59 bounce typical how you're both reverting to upper case. who said that had to be the only one available?
21:59 thestringpuller I don't like it when mircea_popescu yells.
21:59 mircea_popescu SHUT UP BOUNCE
21:59 bounce because logic. sure.
21:59 mircea_popescu no, because allcaps!
22:00 Adlai (setf *print-case* :downcase) ; pls
22:00 mircea_popescu it's like if there were only one gender,
22:00 mircea_popescu it'd be men.
22:00 decimation most morse operators who have to send numbers use shortened versions
22:00 decimation so zero ----- becomes - or 't'
22:00 decimation how's that for symbol/number representation
22:00 bounce no, it wouldn't. wouldn't be women either.
22:00 asciilifeform ooloi.
22:00 asciilifeform ;;google ooloi
22:00 gribble Oankali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oankali>; Octavia Butler's Xenogenesis Trilogy: An Introduction - Biology: <http://biology.kenyon.edu/slonc/books/butler1.html>; Imago: Book Three of the Xenogenesis Series (1989): <http://www.literatureandgenetics.org/viewwork.php?id=60>
22:00 mircea_popescu yes it wouldn't be women lol
22:01 Adlai if there were only one gender, "gender" the concept wouldn't exist
22:01 asciilifeform (summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.)
22:01 mircea_popescu Adlai how come everyone's smart yet the concept of stupid exists ?
22:01 Abelincoln hi
22:01 Abelincoln whats up everyone
22:02 Abelincoln WHATS UP
22:02 decimation !down Abelincoln
22:02 mircea_popescu !down Abelincoln
22:02 asciilifeform lol, firing squad
22:02 mircea_popescu yeah, not qualified to troll here. go learn moirse.
22:02 undata innovation is happening; deploy SEC!
22:03 Adlai the gradient of idiocy is far more nuanced, although i guess our dead president is anchoring one end of it
22:03 decimation eh. every new bureaucrat knows that they can 'embrace and extend' new territory by trying to 'get there first'
22:03 mircea_popescu Over at reddit.com, we rewrote the site from Lisp to Python in the past week. It was pretty much done in one weekend. << lawl.
22:03 bounce rulemaking, the frontier
22:04 Adlai they must have been using the algol-compatibility subset
22:04 bounce so what were the motivation and benefits of doing that?
22:04 asciilifeform 'skilled man can write fortran in any language'
22:05 Adlai it's kinda sad that going from CL to Python is a step backwards in concurrency support
22:05 mircea_popescu bounce old story, 2005ish. "runs faster"
22:05 decimation if true, it's probably that their lisp was retarded
22:06 mircea_popescu "The Lisp newsgroup, comp.lang.lisp, was upset about the switch that they’re currently planning to write a competitor to reddit in Lisp, to show how right they are or something." << never happened, of course.
22:06 decimation http://norvig.com/python-lisp.html
22:06 Adlai bwahahahah
22:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actually, the funny part - it sorta did. graham and his 'arc' (which was actually a spray paint over, if i recall, mzscheme)
22:06 Adlai a reddit infested with c.l.l trolls would be interesting... i hope they'd bring along the markov chain idiocy spammers too
22:06 asciilifeform ended up filling all the ancient stereotypes about 'slow'
22:07 Adlai it's the fifty-year language, it takes fifty years until the HTTP client gets implemented
22:07 undata dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django
22:07 asciilifeform Adlai: funny, because one of the first http stacks was john mallery's - in common lisp.
22:07 asciilifeform on symbolics box, no less. ran last at the clinton white house, of all places.
22:08 * Adlai didn't know, but isn't surprised
22:08 thestringpuller undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js
22:08 thestringpuller rap*
22:08 mircea_popescu anyway, that article is all about how arron s is great and wonderful.
22:08 mircea_popescu which... whatever, when i start fucking boys i might care.
22:08 nubbins` <asciilifeform> he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ? <<< probably no more than a few days of torture
22:08 thestringpuller "when"?
22:09 thestringpuller ^ mircea_popescu
22:09 undata thestringpuller: the only way I can tolerate python is by considering it "functional" in the weak sense
22:09 asciilifeform 'when we'll eat long pig? when short pig is through'
22:09 jurov kakobrekla ponder this bit of wisdom from naggum: it has been instructive to see how people suddenly grasp that a date is always read and written in ISO 8601 format although the machine actually deals with it as a large integer...
22:09 mircea_popescu thestringpuller women will eventually run out...
22:09 jurov ..Unix folks who are used to seeing the number _or_ a hacked-up crufty version of `ctime' output are truly amazed by this.
22:09 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: how so?
22:10 mircea_popescu thestringpuller because they're cuntable.
22:10 thestringpuller harhar
22:11 thestringpuller http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitpay-lets-bitcoin-customers-make-it-rain/
22:11 decimation herr walker just introduced me to the 'rust' language: http://www.rust-lang.org/
22:12 decimation it's kinda like c++ without the libraries
22:12 undata decimation: the immutability by default thing is cool
22:12 asciilifeform fuck immutability.
22:12 decimation yeah, I don't get how that helps
22:13 asciilifeform whenever someone says 'immutability', i wish i could replace his ram with antifuse rom.
22:13 decimation lol
22:13 asciilifeform all the immutability you can handle.
22:13 * Adlai is still waiting for a language to implement http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/ObjectIdentity.html
22:13 asciilifeform till it comes out yer ears.
22:13 decimation asciilifeform: it's another symptom of the 'protect the programmer from himself' mentality
22:14 asciilifeform nah
22:14 asciilifeform it actually comes from the 'mathemasturbators'
22:14 decimation ah, in terms of proofs?
22:14 nubbins` !s sha256sum
22:14 assbot 5 results for 'sha256sum' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sha256sum
22:14 asciilifeform the 'we embezzled 40 years of grantola from usg to pretend our fourth-rate mathematics is relevant to computing' folks.
22:14 mircea_popescu ^
22:14 undata I'm blessed to be among perfect programmers.
22:15 undata as for myself, as many constraints as possible, please.
22:15 asciilifeform haskell, ml, hindley-milner type systems.
22:15 nubbins` anyone have a link handy for deed verification process?
22:15 undata strict types, etc
22:15 nubbins` n/m
22:15 mircea_popescu kakobrekla: well, its not hard to beat "hi you have incoming ddos, I understand this can be frustrating as this type of attack is usually a sign that your droplet has been compromised" <<< ahahaha wut ?
22:15 mircea_popescu dude, logic.
22:15 Adlai undata: run forrest, run! break out of those crutches!
22:16 undata Adlai: when you intend to, you simply specify something mutable
22:16 mircea_popescu "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut."
↖
22:16 Adlai run forrest, run!
22:16 Adlai undata: see the object identity paper
22:17 undata Adlai: I am already bigoted against OOP
22:17 undata should I bother?
22:17 Adlai yes
22:17 Adlai once upon a time, "object" meant something other than "instance of a class"
22:17 mircea_popescu i think oop is generally despised here.
22:17 undata Adlai: I'd rather just have my types over here, and functions over there which use them
22:18 undata I'll read it though.
22:18 undata mircea_popescu: objects are just an intermediate shitbucket between global and local
22:18 Adlai the paper has nothing to do with OOP, "object" could equally be replaced by "data"
22:18 asciilifeform the crop of junk-oop systems of the 1990s will be tremendously expensive to future folks, who will avoid anything that smacks of 'objects' even when a particular apparatus actually wants to be represented in that shape
22:19 mircea_popescu undata as actually encountered, pretty much. asciilifeform i guess so.
22:19 * asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS
22:19 * bounce doesn't mind OOP. there's some good ideas in there, even if most practitioners didn't get it.
22:19 asciilifeform ;;google art of metaobject protocol
22:19 gribble The Art of the Metaobject Protocol: Gregor Kiczales, Jim des ...: <http://www.amazon.com/The-Metaobject-Protocol-Gregor-Kiczales/dp/0262610744>; The Art of the Metaobject Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Metaobject_Protocol>; MetaObject Protocol - Association of Lisp Users: <http://www.alu.org/mop>
22:19 asciilifeform ^ as described there.
22:19 bounce quite sure that if there wasn't OOP they'd've thought of something else to write crap code in
22:19 mircea_popescu i guess a fairer evaluation is to say oop got the blessing of suck, the way www did.
22:19 mircea_popescu experts everywhere.
22:20 asciilifeform blessing of suck <<<<<
22:20 Adlai asciilifeform: seen this? http://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple
22:20 Adlai turns out people actually use it
22:20 mircea_popescu !s sykopomp
22:20 assbot 2 results for 'sykopomp' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sykopomp
22:20 mircea_popescu actually in teh logs. we got everything weird!
22:20 decimation oop is one of those things that sounds great on paper, but when a group of programmers try to use it they end up with unmaintainable spaghetti code
22:21 asciilifeform i've yet to meet a 'reinventor' of clos who actually understood all of clos
22:21 asciilifeform or even showed symptoms of having so much as smelled the book gas in kiczales et al
22:21 Adlai mircea_popescu: actually not in the logs, unless anybody paid attention when i brought it up :)
22:21 mircea_popescu i'm never going to catch up to this log, am i.
22:21 asciilifeform doesn't mean this 'nessie' isn't alive and well in some loch.
22:22 mircea_popescu Adlai i still got the impression it was discussed before. maybe im just confused, maybe assbot was down right then, dunno.
22:22 * asciilifeform blows dust off kiczales
22:22 * asciilifeform notices no dust. because uses.
22:22 decimation asciilifeform: I get the feeling that oop is sick at a metaphysical level
22:23 asciilifeform oop as straightjacked (i.e. other than clos) - yes.
22:23 asciilifeform *straightjacket
22:23 Adlai we got stuck on how to implement a MOP for sheeple, and it hasn't seen enough use for people to miss it... but it's a rather faithful translation of MOPless CLOS
22:23 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: ;;later tell DanielKrawisz Looking forward to seeing you rationalize this gem <<< i dunno, it's like the guy went off the deep end past coupla weeks.
22:23 mircea_popescu major bender or something.
22:23 * bounce forgot who argued that of the four main things in OOP only encapsulation was really important, but things like (multiple) inheritance are just that much shinier
22:23 undata oop is shitty function dispatch paired with some implicit scope stapled to your functions
22:23 undata why?
22:23 asciilifeform dafuq's the point of mopless clos
22:23 mircea_popescu Adlai oh, you involved with the project ?
22:23 asciilifeform that's like cockless man
22:23 asciilifeform dulap!!!
22:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform cockless man is sitll not woman!
22:24 asciilifeform aha.
22:24 Adlai pls. https://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple/graphs/contributors
22:24 Adlai sykopomp was satoshi to my usgavin
22:25 mircea_popescu fucking github.com. "Loading contributions…"
22:25 asciilifeform the pitiful object systems that lack even basics like 'mixins' are not merely cockless, but armless, legless
22:25 mircea_popescu take yer javascript an' shove it. fucking ajax things.
22:25 bounce next you'll be saying ruby is the future
22:25 undata haaaa
22:26 mircea_popescu ruby is the failure
22:26 mircea_popescu closest it gets to future.
22:26 asciilifeform the ruby by yukihiro 'i half-learned common lisp, i confess' matsumoto ?
22:26 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: this represents a 200% greater loss than last year while revenue doubled. <<< yeah, the time to short the pos approaches.
22:27 * mircea_popescu remembers riding rimm all the way down.
22:27 undata python would be if not advisable, forgivible if someone ripped the classes out
22:27 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: hmm do comments not yield trackbacks? << wut ?
22:28 undata and added type annotations
22:28 Adlai in ze end, ve vil al be speking german...
22:28 mircea_popescu undata well they made their own web.py class structure, back then
22:29 * asciilifeform still can't grasp how a programming system having 'global interpreter lock' became a beloved tool
22:29 undata because people are followers and it wasn't an informed decision
22:29 * asciilifeform only has one theory, 'good-cop-bad-cop symbiosis' with perl
22:29 bounce power of the crowd?
22:30 * undata thinks random shuffling among the things people are capable of
22:30 asciilifeform no, power of the frying pan
22:30 decimation asciilifeform: yeah I remember rejecting perl; finding pythong as the best alternative
22:30 Adlai the GIL is good for limiting the amount of toes you can shoot off at once
22:30 decimation they didn't teach lisp in those days
22:30 asciilifeform who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist
22:30 Adlai do they teach lisp in any days, these days?
22:30 undata man, this is the generation of programmers that thinks nosql is a great idea
22:30 asciilifeform no.
22:30 undata nobody knows shit.
22:30 asciilifeform the folks who attend uni, sometimes even worse than never hearing of it at all, learn 'LISP'
22:31 decimation asciilifeform: as in some ancient turd?
22:31 asciilifeform that is, a deliberately archaic variant that brings back all the dark age stereotypes (slow, no iteration constructs, poor i/o)
22:31 asciilifeform this generally ruins folks for life on the concept itself
22:31 * undata grumbles about a bunch of JS developers farting out things like couchdb
22:31 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist << i don't run a windows machine. for me ms might as well not exist. however, i did get apple powered tablet to check out their game marketplace.
22:31 mircea_popescu don't forget that. apple isn't a tech company, it's a media company.
22:32 asciilifeform ^ different thing here
22:32 mircea_popescu like LMVH, but exactly.
22:32 * asciilifeform has a collection of apple gizmos for similar purposes
22:32 mircea_popescu apple it's what yahoo has aspired at all these years. if they had any sense, they wouldn't have hired melissa no clue, they'd have hired jobs back then
22:32 Adlai they've made some nice hardware too
22:32 mircea_popescu Adlai in the sense of gucci bags, nice.
22:32 asciilifeform afaik 'yahoo' was 'mmm' from day 1.
22:32 Adlai well yes, that is a valid sense of the word
22:32 mircea_popescu girl-nice, not boy-nice
22:33 decimation asciilifeform: as in 3M?
22:33 asciilifeform nope
22:33 asciilifeform !s mavrodi
22:33 assbot 0 results for 'mavrodi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mavrodi
22:33 asciilifeform ;;google mavrodi mmm
22:33 gribble Sergei Mavrodi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Mavrodi>; MMM (Ponzi scheme company) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM_(Ponzi_scheme_company)>; Новости МММ-2012 - page screenshot of ...: <http://3py4p4ods8eqivzcenynzr9rp7gt35bzg399i2tksesul6wmpyfe1nsawtno.com/news/>
22:33 decimation ah multilevel marketing
22:33 asciilifeform pyramid.
22:33 Adlai dunno, some of apple's earlier hardware was boy-nice too
22:33 mircea_popescu and they nearly went bankrupt with it.
22:34 asciilifeform who, exactly, sells 'boy' nice ?
22:34 asciilifeform today.
22:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the chinese.
22:34 * Adlai likes his lenovo thinkpad
22:34 mircea_popescu ^ lmao
22:34 mats_cd03 http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/motoring/article4248707.ece
22:34 * asciilifeform prods barely-adequate lenovo
22:34 decimation eh, chinese just build to us specs generally
22:34 Adlai the IBM thinkpad is good too, and still running like clockwork, 12 years later
22:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform golden turd, remember ?
22:35 Adlai although linux may have something to do with this
22:35 kakobrekla golden turd? downed pilot.
22:35 mats_cd03 nvm paywalled, don't click that
22:35 asciilifeform running like clockwork, 12 years later << so wat. i've a symbolics 3620 'running like clockwork' 28 years later.
22:35 mircea_popescu kakobrekla "golden phoenix"
22:35 Adlai !
22:35 asciilifeform golden turd corp. - will build anything, yes.
22:35 Adlai do you actually have a lispm?
22:36 asciilifeform !s 3620
22:36 assbot 12 results for '3620' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=3620
22:36 kakobrekla Adlai its for sale in bitcoin otc
22:36 asciilifeform Adlai: not only, but it's for sale.
22:36 asciilifeform aha
22:36 Adlai vnhm?
22:36 * Adlai looks in the otc book
22:36 mircea_popescu cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products? << not really, no. other than "we don't have a clue how it's done but this is sekoority and so being mysterious is the next best thing"
22:37 mats_cd03 http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/10/27/1716243/black-swan-author-genetically-modified-organisms-risk-global-ruin << anybody else read this and think taleb is way off base?
22:37 mircea_popescu mats_cd03 as in, didn't understand taleb's point ? or as in what ?
22:38 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-08-2014#800350
22:38 assbot Logged on 18-08-2014 16:12:29; asciilifeform: but no, somehow, 'gmo' equals what monsanto inc. does.
22:38 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2014#827711
22:38 assbot Logged on 12-09-2014 19:19:30; asciilifeform: except - they aren't banning monsanto garbage. they're banning 'gmo.'
22:38 asciilifeform !s monsanto
22:38 assbot 38 results for 'monsanto' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=monsanto
22:38 Adlai where? http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?nick=asciilifeform
22:38 undata mats_cd03: probably going to need a biologist to get a reasonable response
22:38 asciilifeform Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-09-2014#846475
22:38 assbot Logged on 26-09-2014 23:50:40; asciilifeform: ;;sell 1 "Symbolics 3620 Lisp Machine. Photos: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=51" at 3 btc must pick up in Washington, D.C. area, this item cannot be shipped economically.
22:38 undata who fucking knows; it's like anything with humans. we'll do it, I know that for sure.
22:38 undata and so we'll find out
22:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform tbh i always wondered about the "shipping economically" part. surely 100lbs worth of various things have been shipped before, even in the us ?
22:39 Adlai ammo!
22:39 undata it's like Elon Musk recently with AI. He's been calling that "potentially more dangerous than nukes"
22:39 undata maybe so, but if it can happen, it will happen
22:39 decimation in the us, with that weight class, one must deal with 'freight operators'
22:39 Adlai asciilifeform: still for sale for 3btc?
22:40 mircea_popescu go go teamsters union for btc!
22:40 decimation can be done, just a pain in the ass
22:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: good question! answer: packing it in such a way as to guarantee safe shipping would be prohibitively expensive. the man i bought it from, david schmidt (last symbolics employee) refuses to ship his remaining stock, after a multitude of DOAs.
22:40 kakobrekla STILL has stock?
22:40 asciilifeform it's been a few years since i asked.
22:40 Adlai (it's not in the b-otc order book anymore)
22:40 asciilifeform write/telephone him.
22:40 asciilifeform yes, still for sale
22:40 kakobrekla just curious, not worthy of bothering the man.
22:41 asciilifeform wtf did the otc go ?
22:41 asciilifeform kakobrekla: he loves being bothered.
22:41 kakobrekla asciilifeform expired order?
22:41 asciilifeform kakobrekla: ancient grandfather type
22:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know such a thing as cpt/cip exists
22:41 mircea_popescu doesn't have to be exw
22:41 asciilifeform it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase.
22:42 asciilifeform a 100kg ming vase.
22:42 decimation surely symbolics shipped these when they were new
22:42 asciilifeform plus the only way the buyer can be sure that it functions, is to power it on where it stands now.
22:42 asciilifeform otherwise he can say 'scammer, shipped dud'
22:42 asciilifeform (most of the extant units are duds at this point)
22:42 mircea_popescu i guess this is a point
22:42 decimation well, that's a good point, electrolytics and everything like that
22:42 asciilifeform those aren't the problem
22:43 asciilifeform the multitude of card edge connectors, mainly, are, plus the ancient hdd
22:43 mircea_popescu that should be fixable no ? the card edges
22:43 asciilifeform fixable how?
22:43 decimation connector springs fail?
22:43 asciilifeform if they snap - that's that
22:43 asciilifeform the edges themselves. fiberglass pcb.
22:43 decimation ah
22:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno, epoxy paste ?
22:44 mircea_popescu people can reconstruct tits and virginity. you telling me they can't remake a board edge ?
22:44 asciilifeform also have to appreciate the hdd. if it croaks, an equivalent unit will not actually make the machine go. os can only be installed from tape. i own neither the tape deck nor the tape.
22:44 mircea_popescu !up JimDowJones
22:44 asciilifeform a serious museum curator - such as david s. - could finesse these issues, yes.
22:44 Duffer1 asciilifeform it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase >> bonded courier
22:45 asciilifeform this particular machine was, iirc, assembled from surviving parts of the DOAs.
22:45 mircea_popescu Duffer1 he has a point tho, museums routinely pay exorbitant fees to move their fragile shoit around.
22:45 asciilifeform bonded courier will test box at my house prior to shipment? lol
22:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yep.
22:45 Duffer1 no doubt, sorry i've only followed a few lines of the convo :P
22:45 asciilifeform there are perhaps 20 people on planet qualified to test this machine.
22:46 asciilifeform as in, verify that all the parts actually function.
22:46 mircea_popescu so they will have to hire one.
22:46 asciilifeform as things are now, i expect that it will be brought to my 'peine forte et dure.'
22:46 mircea_popescu undertand, shipping is a solved problem. it just costs money, but it's not the case that consumer mail is all there is.
22:46 asciilifeform i will certainly ask for it...
22:46 asciilifeform i know full well that it's a solved problem.
22:46 BingoBoingo For a sufficiently exorbitant price I may be willing to serve as courier within CONUS.
22:46 asciilifeform i am swimming in 'solved problems' that i - in particular - cannot access the solutions to.
22:47 asciilifeform because - elementarily - cost.
22:47 mircea_popescu :D
22:47 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3XGFMWV.txt )
22:47 mircea_popescu !b 3
22:47 mircea_popescu it's better than swimming in fresh curetage product
22:47 mircea_popescu if only marginally.
22:47 asciilifeform lol
22:47 asciilifeform !s shitburial
22:47 assbot 3 results for 'shitburial' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=shitburial
22:49 * asciilifeform seriously considered donating the box to 'smithsonian'
22:49 mircea_popescu omg kakobrekla bitbet is down!
22:49 kakobrekla ikr.
22:49 mircea_popescu scam finally ran with the bitcoinz ?
22:49 kakobrekla all 4 of them.
22:50 mircea_popescu i knew mp would never pay on that berkshire bet.
22:50 decimation I was listening to this podcast: http://www.theamphour.com/201-cheap-respins-and-a-time-machine-multiscience-mercenary-marketplace/ << the guy from the satellite company said he had to drive his small sats to the shake table
22:50 decimation sats encountered more shock on the road
22:50 kakobrekla hm, some berkshire bettors must be sweating.
22:51 mircea_popescu punkman: asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << asciilifeform yes, nobody requires them to send sample units. something like "we're buying atmospheric noise off random.org folks" or "sixty free cs servers, and we suck the urand pool dry" or w/e.
22:51 asciilifeform point is, why tell tale if no one will believe.
22:51 mircea_popescu i guess.
22:51 TheNewDeal no bitbet mirror?
22:52 mircea_popescu TheNewDeal kako's workin' on it.
22:52 mircea_popescu im just here eating cookies and giving him a hard time.
22:52 TheNewDeal before I can even think it
22:52 Duffer1 usg dossing it?
22:52 mircea_popescu Duffer1 nah moar like, random derp.
22:52 * nubbins` groans
22:53 asciilifeform decimation: sats encountered more shock on the road << see also the famous film 'longitude'
22:53 mircea_popescu this is beneficial tho, i had some good lolz reading the support tickets earlier in logs
22:53 nubbins` punkman, a code snippet from your deed processing routine plz?
22:53 TheNewDeal example?
22:53 Duffer1 i can imagine mp lol
22:53 decimation yeah most pendulum clocks didn't do well in a swaying ship
22:53 mircea_popescu http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#899087
22:53 assbot Logged on 28-10-2014 02:16:07; mircea_popescu: "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut."
22:53 Duffer1 panic attacks areen't fun
22:54 asciilifeform decimation: nah, the scene where harrison's opponents contrieve to have his clock shipped from one town to another on a suspension-less oxcart
22:54 mircea_popescu punkbot yeah can deedbot be os yet
22:54 TheNewDeal that link was like dejavu
22:54 BingoBoingo http://robrhinehart.com/?p=1152 << Oh, YCombinator guy who imagines he killed food pretends to do the same for water and sanitation
22:54 decimation asciilifeform: I bet you had alot of sympathy for harrison
22:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform to make omlet, you need to break eggs!
22:55 TheNewDeal nubbins` was asking for a deed snippet
22:55 TheNewDeal oop was getting trashed
22:55 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo if only he could be teamed up with templeos guy.
22:55 nubbins` TheNewDeal i'm just trying to verify one of these things but it's hard if i don't know the process
22:55 mircea_popescu nubbins` you know it was listed like 5 times in da log ? most recently an hour ago ?
22:55 TheNewDeal I feel ya, I would like to learn as well. Seems like an incredibly useful tool
22:56 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: At least TempleOS is fun in a retro way. Future archaologist may imagine it was actually widely used by a large sect
22:56 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo they could solve DREAMS dude.
22:56 BingoBoingo Or make all of the sleep REM
22:57 nubbins` mircea_popescu yeah and there's something more to it than that, because instructions as given don't work
22:57 nubbins` http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286
22:57 assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
22:57 mircea_popescu "don't work" is the best error message, after... anything else.
22:57 asciilifeform 'guru meditation error'
22:58 mircea_popescu at least that has a stack trace, something.
22:58 nubbins` fair enough
22:59 nubbins` following the instructions as provided does not result in the same private key
22:59 nubbins` how else would it not work? :S
22:59 mircea_popescu you could list the private key you got.
23:00 mircea_popescu so we can verify you did in fact follow the instruction rather than honestly think you did.
23:01 nubbins` working with genesis deed: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
23:01 nubbins` first, sha256sum: fb53b9449532fbca07a611572ae4424932e36c7ce492785a9a028bb019cb78a0
23:01 nubbins` in base58: Hv5NuwL5sSvAvWQWSQGDehN5ysrfPvxoVdosrWfk3kAB
23:02 gernika mircea_popescu: Can you recommend a good neighborhood for a short stay in Buenos Aires?
23:02 mircea_popescu gernika are you rich ?
23:02 nubbins` sha256sum again: 049aebffb61c7f2497a11a1d70bf2756ceb0d1b259823bf1e9b70ff617911325
23:02 gernika no
23:02 nubbins` base58 again: JyeP2YHXHzHr8HtyAf2cq5bLRMwuKH5hCWBYoPdqrfe
23:02 mircea_popescu gernika if you like to hang out with expats/foreign kids the palermos and perhaps ricoletta.
23:03 mircea_popescu recoleta*
23:04 gernika mircea_popescu ok. had been looking at palermo.
23:04 mircea_popescu nubbins`'s host kicked him off the internets because he has been posting base58 strings to irc.
23:06 mircea_popescu nubbins` ty!
23:06 asciilifeform you all doing the 'sha(sha(...' by the neck until dead thing?
23:06 decimation maybe he put a comma after?
23:06 mircea_popescu decimation i think he omitted the comma after.
23:07 cazalla http://qntra.net/2014/10/ayo-im-tired-of-hearing-people-saying-blockchain-technology/
23:08 mircea_popescu 1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case.
↖
23:09 mircea_popescu so the more likely hypo is "osx fucks up characters yo!"
23:10 nubbins` so for a single deed, trailing comma or no?
23:10 nubbins` mircea_popescu impossibru ;p
23:10 mircea_popescu i think always trailing comma, but anyway, your 1st sha is off ?
23:10 nubbins` sec
23:11 asciilifeform fucks up characters yo << recall also how various turdware mutilates quotation marks.
23:12 asciilifeform (not sure if this is at play here)
23:12 mircea_popescu i guess best practice, "1st check deed signature, then hash to verify deed".
23:12 mircea_popescu goose and gander process.
23:13 nubbins` er yeah, i don't get the same shasum as you at all
23:13 * nubbins` frowns
23:13 mircea_popescu nubbins` see how much better life is here in the paradise of proper error messages ?
23:14 mircea_popescu http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator << this agrees with me btw.
23:14 nubbins` wait, no, there we go
23:17 nubbins` reading it from a file here produces a different hash
23:17 * nubbins` raises eyebrow
23:21 mircea_popescu clearly you are in charge of your computing.
23:22 mircea_popescu cazalla http://qntra.net/2014/10/ayo-im-tired-of-hearing-people-saying-blockchain-technology/ << nice.
23:22 nubbins` clearly :/
23:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe? << for the record, description is not strictly a belief-driven phenomenon. consider at its most basic, schooling. teacher describes to you grammar. do you believe ? no, if you're in any way sane, not right off. but eventually what was a hypothesis gets tested out.
23:24 mircea_popescu the wot, incidentally, works on exactly the same premise. one can make any declaration one wishes. it's not believed per se, but that's irrelevant. as time goes by confirmation either mouts or does not.
23:24 asciilifeform in this case - belief.
23:25 mircea_popescu i don't see how a case can be different from any other in a system where "one can make any declaration"
23:25 asciilifeform namely, in the case of the physical coins, the only way to know whether you'll be fucked is - when you are.
23:25 mircea_popescu business is not a matter of certain truth.
23:26 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/38DD41W.txt )
23:26 BingoBoingo !b 3
23:26 mircea_popescu the way to know how long your cock is is to ask god, because obviously measurement will yield an error.
23:26 asciilifeform let's rephase - the only information you will ever get re: being fucked, in the case of the physcoins, is being fucked.
23:26 asciilifeform *rephrase
23:27 mircea_popescu not so. this is like saying "the only way to identify boys from girls is as you're moaning".
23:27 asciilifeform how exactly can mr. physcoin prove that he did not use mersenne twister for N....N+k for some N?
23:27 mircea_popescu you can at the very least obtain the "most likely to fuckceed" information on a set of identifiable, different providers.
23:28 asciilifeform how?
23:28 mircea_popescu compare fuckhistory.
23:28 asciilifeform for physcoins - that's like measuring proton decay.
23:28 asciilifeform hasn't happened, afaik.
23:29 mircea_popescu incidentally, it occurs to me that while some start-ups succeed, a vast majority suckceed.
23:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is much weaker than your original statement tho
23:30 asciilifeform if i recall, that was, that none of these folks have much incentive to speak up re: process
23:30 mircea_popescu and this is a cognate of "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends"
23:30 asciilifeform lol
23:30 mircea_popescu similarly of, "i have no interest signing other people's code"
23:31 mircea_popescu which, incidentally, ima make a post about, cause this is starting to coallesce in my head.
23:31 * asciilifeform has interest! but not for phree
23:31 mircea_popescu brb.
23:31 asciilifeform actually on second thought - better hypothesis for the physcoins - atavistic, Ur-fear of being pwned
23:31 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends" << WoT isn't Facebook...*sigh*
23:32 * asciilifeform would sign code, if some loony were to pay what the kind of labour that is involved in honestly signing 'will die by this' actually costs...
23:34 asciilifeform even something as pedestrian as 'valgrind' is laborious for a large turdatronic system.
23:34 kakobrekla actually costs... < well, your life.
23:34 asciilifeform lives - cheap. quality work - costs.
23:35 thestringpuller asciilifeform: what's an alternative to Valgrind?
23:35 asciilifeform not using c/cpp/associated hardware.
23:35 asciilifeform and valgrind is not a magic pill
23:36 asciilifeform any more than 'lint' is.
23:36 thestringpuller heh
23:36 asciilifeform (who here even remembers lint.)
23:36 mircea_popescu me.
23:36 asciilifeform ^
23:36 mod6 me too
23:36 * asciilifeform not alone in lintitude
23:37 thestringpuller you guise r old
23:37 mod6 i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium
23:38 mod6 *legal too :D
23:40 thestringpuller mod6: i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium <<< i was just growing pubes. now I don't feel quite so old.
23:40 mod6 heheh
23:42 mircea_popescu i had my first legal drink in... 1990 ? something like that.
23:42 cazalla http://qntra.net/2014/10/as-ipo-fails-breakout-gaming-plan-a-bait-and-switch/
23:43 mod6 so the day after the 'billennium', Sept. 9th 2001, I think that was the day that rummy was like "Oops, we somehow misplaced 1tn."
23:43 mod6 *the day after
23:43 mircea_popescu one trillion ?
23:44 mod6 yeah. i was like "holy shit! is this guy kidding?! how do you do that?!"
23:44 thestringpuller Didn't a shipping container with 100 billion or so get lost in Iraq in the early 2000's as well?
23:45 thestringpuller nvm 12 bn
23:45 asciilifeform in genuine benjies no less
23:45 thestringpuller http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1
23:45 undata in the movie, the CIA stole it and started ISIS with it
23:46 nubbins` okay, i just wasn't stripping newline from eof
23:46 nubbins` so 1st shasum: 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0
23:46 nubbins` to base58: 2zCwsSPNidLE9aEBTx4bh6Vrv7XrmJa9fAw8o8S8wrCX
23:46 nubbins` second shasum: 581beb0a0aec036351e239da11595fe67c1cf5dc817019716999f2040b96e84f
23:46 mod6 ok, actually, it was 2.3tn
23:47 * mod6 laughs
23:47 nubbins` now what?
23:48 asciilifeform 'Asked what had happened to the $8.8bn he replied: "I have no idea. I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it's important."'
23:48 mircea_popescu nubbins` now import it ?
23:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform win.
23:48 nubbins` mircea_popescu according to deeds.bitcoin-assets.com i'm supposed to end up with the brainwallet passphrase "BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ"
23:49 TheNewDeal is it sha > sha > base58?
23:49 mod6 i remember watching it on tv
23:49 nubbins` but i don't know how to get from the second shasum to that
23:49 mod6 they probably 1984'd it
23:49 nubbins` TheNewDeal sha > base58 > sha > ???
23:49 TheNewDeal sorry, was just a guess
23:49 nubbins` > brainwallet passphrase > private key
23:51 mircea_popescu nubbins` another 58 in there no ?
23:51 nubbins` http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286
23:51 assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
23:51 nubbins` beats me!
23:51 mircea_popescu a ok, so 2nd sha is the privkey. import it nao ?
23:51 nubbins` doing an additional base58 doesn't produce BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
23:52 nubbins` 2nd sha is not the privkey afaict
23:52 nubbins` privkey is 5HsNWxt5bbBiSvVWbtXMBcoQTzfXgqyPEmDWcAymXdu1o9edra3
23:53 mircea_popescu how do you know that ?
23:53 mod6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-F5NKAMdFc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m32s
23:53 nubbins` because that's the private key generated from brainwallet passphrase BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
23:54 mircea_popescu why's brainwallet passphrase enter in here ?
23:54 nubbins` o.O
23:54 nubbins` http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
23:54 nubbins` https://brainwallet.github.io/
23:54 mircea_popescu nubbins` i don't get it ?
23:54 mircea_popescu explain to me like i'm a nubbin!
23:54 nubbins` :D
23:55 nubbins` you put BXZ... into passphrase box
23:55 nubbins` privkey 5HsN... comes up
23:55 mircea_popescu so ?
23:55 nubbins` pub address 149LB... comes up
23:55 nubbins` since 149LB... is the public address indicated on the deed
23:55 mircea_popescu you mean to tell me you reverse-engineered the privkey on the basis of the address ?
23:55 nubbins` no, i mean to tell you i put the deed ID into brainwallet.org and it spit out the associated public address
23:57 nubbins` if the deed ID is not a brainwallet passphrase, the laws of probability have broken down
23:57 mircea_popescu 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 specifically ?
23:57 nubbins` http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
23:57 nubbins` https://brainwallet.github.io/
23:57 mircea_popescu i seem to get 1EppwHWgqBVo9TdZmLWjpNMp7w5zyrKokB ?
23:58 nubbins` you entering BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ into "passphrase" textbox?
23:58 mircea_popescu yes.
23:58 * nubbins` raises eyebrow
23:58 mircea_popescu 3ab7aea90551ed0bebc37b66dae9ff9f89e60e15d9cc85ab76c922322a88b033 5JG9SZLueh5AcJEvMeZrNT3oHEd27hhUrFydq4EVVWC2RoXFc3S
23:59 mircea_popescu 1D37yABoLo7Ma4LeR6jW8ZhJxLXdQmsbsH if i select compressed.
23:59 nubbins` uh
23:59 nubbins` if you enter kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA ?
23:59 mircea_popescu 19xKa5GkCBFM9XnEcHp1mjoiXi7x7oXKzn / 1G7XajvC1SChrQqBzVG7mDMkAaiT1jWU4G
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