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00:02	BingoBoingo	benkay: The economic grabass in the US will probably follow from this and the already documented economic malstructuring
00:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4172 @ 0.00099548 = 4.1531 BTC [+] {2}
00:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5834 @ 0.0009955 = 5.8077 BTC [+]
00:13	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.02984668 = 0.7462 BTC [-] {10}
00:25	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00099357 = 7.6505 BTC [-]
00:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.4999999 = 1 BTC [+]
		~ 37 minutes ~
01:03	bitcoinpete	;;later tell benkay i'll work on that :D
01:03	gribble	The operation succeeded.
01:03	bitcoinpete	in case anyone missed this:
01:03	bitcoinpete	http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/
01:03	ozbot	The Brokenness of MaidSafe | When Bitcoin Met Pete
01:04	bitcoinpete	maidsafe probably isn't going to gain much traction anyways, but i thought i'd call it out just to be sure.
01:06	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11393 @ 0.00099357 = 11.3197 BTC [-]
01:12	BingoBoingo	bitcoinpete: Doing so is always a good exercise
01:12	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06601051 = 0.6601 BTC [-]
01:13	bitcoinpete	BingoBoingo: gotta flex those muscles, touch those toes once in a while
01:13	BingoBoingo	bitcoinpete: Yeah
01:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5215 @ 0.00099521 = 5.19 BTC [+] {2}
01:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9534 @ 0.0009966 = 9.5016 BTC [+]
01:16	BingoBoingo	bitcoinpete: As a great man once said "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
01:17	BingoBoingo	bitcoinpete: The same person also said "When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to a bunch of little old ladies, at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity, and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag."
01:18	bitcoinpete	i'd love to hear some of the chinese profanity
01:19	bitcoinpete	was just watching videos of f-15s taking off the Liaoning
01:20	BingoBoingo	bitcoinpete: Really?
01:21	BingoBoingo	I was kind of just bringing up these quotes in the context of addressing scammers. It isn't enough to merely be better than the scammers through knowing. You have to make them answer for their purpose, and in doing so you have to use language that sticks
01:22	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.5 = 4.5 BTC [+]
01:22	bitcoinpete	greater good and good sport
01:23	bitcoinpete	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIuK28hmicY
01:23	ozbot	Liaoning Carrier A Symbol of National Power - YouTube
01:24	bitcoinpete	it also turns out that in arabic "happy easter" means "happy passover"
01:24	bitcoinpete	http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/notebook.htm
01:25	BingoBoingo	bitcoinpete: You know... Those planes aren't F-15's...
01:27	BingoBoingo	J-15's
01:28	bitcoinpete	j, yes...
01:28	BingoBoingo	In the big picture the differance is probably irrelevant
01:30	BingoBoingo	(The choice of differance over difference was intentional)
01:41	fluffypony	bitcoinpete: making a fuzz, lol
01:41	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06601051 = 0.3301 BTC [-]
01:43	bitcoinpete	fluffypony: always ;)
01:43	fluffypony	"DavidT: i guess yes you are making a fuzz unnecessarily. and asking nicely and calmly or doing more research may get you more info i reckon."
01:43	fluffypony	making a fuzz is going to be my new phrase
01:45	fluffypony	"The SAFEst thing for Bitcoiners to do is keep their coins, back-up their hard drives, and encrypt their important files using PGP/GPG. The SAFEst thing for you to do is to find a VC or go back to the drawing board." <- best line in the article
01:53	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00099456 = 19.195 BTC [-] {2}
01:58	bitcoinpete	fluffypony: ya the comments sections is getting better. it's fun to watch the flailers flail in there
02:09	bitcoinpete	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pj4L7C2twI#t=219
02:09	ozbot	Poo2Loo: Poo Party - YouTube
02:10	bitcoinpete	UNICEF poopy music video. there's gotta be a cryptocoin crowdsourcing idea in there somewhere. maybe asciilifeform's shitcoin?
02:15	Apocalyptic	asciilifeform doesn't strike me as the kind of person that would release a shitcoin
02:16	jurov	Apocalyptic he had another kind of shitcoin in mind
02:16	jurov	look it up on loper-os
02:17	bitcoinpete	;;google loper-os shitcoin
02:17	gribble	Loper OS » Shitcoin: a Modest Proposal.: <http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988>; Loper OS » On the fact that Bitcoin has a Kill Switch; and how to ...: <http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009>; Loper OS » Idea: <http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=9>
02:23	bitcoinpete	.d
02:23	ozbot	6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1434 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.3216% in 8d 12h 33m 24s
02:23	bitcoinpete	damn those govs can mine
02:23	jurov	i think he won't go throught with it, we convinced him that having to check every coin for encumbrances is impractical
02:25	BingoBoingo	I also think he came around to an objection to shitcoin on first principles eventually.
02:25	jurov	i see he added himself "they will be worth less"
02:28	jurov	but i can't imagine being a merchant to weigh every customer's reputation how much less are his coins worth
02:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15948 @ 0.00099302 = 15.8367 BTC [-] {2}
02:36	BingoBoingo	Well, worth less is far from worthless
02:37	jurov	but how much less? that's completely handwaved over
02:39	BingoBoingo	Well, how much is Litecoin worth? These things have to be handwaved, because such matters are indeterminate until practice forces them
02:39	BingoBoingo	reeses: Last week's panic over taking National Guard Attack helicopters: There is still a nuclear armed National Guard Unit.
02:39	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 62 @ 0.00485 = 0.3007 BTC [-]
02:39	BingoBoingo	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/131st_Fighter_Wing
02:39	ozbot	131st Bomb Wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
02:39	BingoBoingo	Damn auto correct highlighting reeses instead of allowing RE:
02:39	jurov	BingoBoingo: litecoins don't expire on a whim of investors
02:40	jurov	and their value does not depends on who is offering them
02:41	BingoBoingo	Are you sure litecoins don't expire on the whims of investors/speculators? 1 LTC = 1 LTC, but beyond that... Who pumps them at a particular time seems to affect their value quite a bit.
02:41	jurov	so you see no difference between them and ascii's shitcoins?
02:42	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.51375488 = 3.0825 BTC [+] {3}
02:42	fluffypony	reeses pieces
02:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51375489 BTC [+]
02:43	jurov	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23g30d/dear_regulated_exchanges_if_you_hold_coins/cgwp8jp interesting tidbit about cavirtex
02:43	ozbot	justusranvier comments on Dear REGULATED Exchanges if you hold coins hostage until people are verifi
02:45	jurov	https://i.imgur.com/yi9hscm.png and this..lmao
02:45	BingoBoingo	jurov: I see differences, the primary one being that at least shitcoins represent BTC denominated balances
02:45	fluffypony	jurov: yeah, there's lots of fuss about Cavirtex allowing deposits without the person being approved, and then they can't withdraw their deposit
02:46	jurov	but "bitcoin deposits from utside canada are prohibited"?
02:46	fluffypony	yes, they're obviously a bit retarded or very, very sneaky
02:47	fluffypony	they have a regulatory requirement to only deal with Canadians, so I don't understand why they even show the deposit screen/address for unverified customers
02:47	fluffypony	surely it's one line of PHP/Ruby/whatever they use
02:47	fluffypony	if (isverified == true) { }
02:47	BingoBoingo	Well, they are the fuckers who ran with the money they raised on Havelock aren't they?
02:47	jurov	BingoBoingo indeed
02:48	fluffypony	yep
02:48	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: PHP and Ruby are the wrong tools for an "exchange"
02:48	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 83 @ 0.00485 = 0.4026 BTC [-]
02:48	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: agreed
02:48	fluffypony	well, they're fine for the front-end bits, as long as they don't do any actual work
02:49	jurov	throw dude.js on that list
02:49	BingoBoingo	PHP ======= MagicalFux, Ruby ===== {Kumala}
02:49	fluffypony	heh
02:50	BingoBoingo	I dunno why otherwise reasonable seeming people take to liking shit.js
02:50	fluffypony	I hate it
02:52	fluffypony	I do have an unbridled love for php for front-end work (Laravel for structure, Blade for templating), but business logic/actual work should never be done in the front-end
02:52	fluffypony	separation of liabilities
02:54	BingoBoingo	Well, A lot of things on the internet are better not existing on the web level at all.
02:54	fluffypony	true
02:55	fluffypony	it seems that everything is http services layered on top of or replacing other protocols nowadays
02:55	fluffypony	"Bitcoin's a great protocol! Here's a web wallet."
02:56	BingoBoingo	Not even that. The You Can Message Someone on Facebook, as a replacement for email is a catalyst of suck.
02:56	fluffypony	eugh
02:56	fluffypony	so glad I'm not on Facebook
02:56	BingoBoingo	Webmail as a substitute for Pine is another.
02:56	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56057 @ 0.00099551 = 55.8053 BTC [+] {3}
03:09	BingoBoingo	3D printing propaganda: http://3dprint.com/2438/50-prosthetic-3d-printed-hand/
03:14	BingoBoingo	http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/04/21/0017239/42000-prosthetic-hand-outperformed-by-50-3d-printed-hand#
03:14	ozbot	$42,000 Prosthetic Hand Outperformed By $50 3D Printed Hand - Slashdot
03:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8509 @ 0.00099669 = 8.4808 BTC [+] {2}
03:14	BingoBoingo	"This drives me crazy when people don't include the costs of labor. It would be like someone getting a car donated to them and saying "Wow cars only cost $200 for a title and registration! Why do people pay thousands of dollars for a car!?" Because someone gave you one for free!"
03:17	BingoBoingo	I like how all of these discussions ignore the proper use of a hand which is satisfying a girl, so that you can use the girl to satisfy yourself.
03:20	BingoBoingo	!up Diablo-D3
03:20	assbot	Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.
03:20	Diablo-D3	meh.
03:20	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: It's something
03:20	Diablo-D3	Trying to figure out how to identify with gribble
03:20	BingoBoingo	Well, you GPG or BC addy register?
03:20	BingoBoingo	;;gettrust assbot Diablo-D3
03:20	gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Diablo-D3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Diablo-D3 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Diablo-D3 | Rated since: Mon Apr 25 13:54:20 2011
03:21	Diablo-D3	my gpg is registered, but I dont keep the key on my laptop for obvious reasons
03:21	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Looks like you can self up if you auth
03:21	Diablo-D3	oh, so I just need an account on wot?
03:21	BingoBoingo	Yeah
03:21	Diablo-D3	and I dont have to actually authenticate?
03:21	BingoBoingo	Well, you authenticate to gribble
03:22	BingoBoingo	Key management is and ought to be a personal thing
03:22	Diablo-D3	last time I had to authenticate on gribble I needed to sign a message with my pgp key
03:22	Diablo-D3	which is absurd
03:22	BingoBoingo	Better and worse solutions existing
03:22	BingoBoingo	I honestly usually use the decrypt option.
03:22	Diablo-D3	er, right, that thing
03:22	Diablo-D3	its been awhile since Ive given a shit about it
03:23	Diablo-D3	the bot should just be set to autovoice me
03:23	BingoBoingo	it is truly amazing how much text you can pass on a printed page
03:23	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
03:23	Diablo-D3	[03:17:34] <BingoBoingo> I like how all of these discussions ignore the proper use of a hand which is satisfying a girl, so that you can use the girl to satisfy yourself.
03:24	Diablo-D3	I have satisfied a girl with my hands before
03:24	Diablo-D3	its not what I'm known for, however.
03:26	BingoBoingo	Well, hand (clean) explores vagina to determine if clean or not, Mouth (clean) explores dick to determine if clean or not
03:26	BingoBoingo	These customs arise for reasons.
03:27	BingoBoingo	!up HeySteve
03:27	assbot	Voicing HeySteve for 30 minutes.
03:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00099684 = 12.0618 BTC [+] {2}
03:31	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: My biggest criticism of "paleo" is that practitioners emphasize dietary bullshit over actual factors contributing to human success like hygeine.
03:31	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: not at all
03:32	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: like, I use fluoride free toothpaste and detergent free soap
03:33	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Honestly I really dun give a shit about that anyways, detergents are just surfactants that aren't derived from fatty acids, as a class detergent is a meaningless designation
03:34	BingoBoingo	!up punkman1
03:34	assbot	Voicing punkman1 for 30 minutes.
03:34	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: this is true, but what Im saying is, I use dr bronner's.
03:35	BingoBoingo	Eh, I'm the sort that instead of using gold bond powders the nuts with zeasorb, because it offers moar power
03:36	Diablo-D3	yeah, and Ive never actually had that problem
03:37	BingoBoingo	I've never had a problem either beyond nuts sticking to thighs, because moist. The aim though is not merely to survive, but to make the worst case impossible.
03:39	BingoBoingo	Better living through knowledge of chemistry and all of that
03:39	Diablo-D3	I agree
03:40	Diablo-D3	but the problem is, you have to find what works
03:40	Diablo-D3	paleo is about using products that dont cause some sort of immune response or arent otherwise toxic
03:40	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: some people DO get this wrong and get weirdly hippy about it
03:41	Diablo-D3	they arent doing paleo, they're just being hippies
03:41	BingoBoingo	Eh, I mix poison ivy into salad at least once a year.
03:42	BingoBoingo	I try to keep my immune system in a state as close to total war as possible
03:42	Diablo-D3	yes, and thats a thing
03:42	Diablo-D3	I prefer removing as many irritants as possible
03:42	Diablo-D3	so my body CAN have an immune response
03:43	BingoBoingo	Immune response is important, but it has to point the right direction
03:44	Diablo-D3	like, grains/sugars/etc really fuck up your immune response
03:44	BingoBoingo	Nah, that shit's fuel. If that is your definition of an irritant...
03:46	BingoBoingo	I mean denying the monder human body that shit is asking for portal vein hypertension
03:50	BingoBoingo	Onto another topic, Diablo-D3 what would be your ideal computer for offline signing and decryption?
03:50	fluffypony	!up Diablo-D3
03:50	assbot	Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.
03:51	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: isnt one.
03:51	Diablo-D3	[03:44:49] <BingoBoingo> Nah, that shit's fuel. If that is your definition of an irritant...
03:51	Diablo-D3	it can be a fuel but its not the most efficient
03:51	fluffypony	this just sounds like it's going to go into the "make your own silicon, write your own OS" territory
03:51	Diablo-D3	the only carbs I intake are naturally in vegs
03:51	Diablo-D3	fluffypony: it basically is BUT
03:51	Diablo-D3	you cant
03:52	fluffypony	exactly
03:52	Diablo-D3	because shit is only secure when everyone on the planet has audited it and said so
03:52	BingoBoingo	My favorite veggie is maize
03:52	Diablo-D3	I will say though, and Ive been saying this for awhile
03:52	Diablo-D3	dont use openssl, use nss
03:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4870 @ 0.00099801 = 4.8603 BTC [+] {2}
03:52	fluffypony	so taking a step back from that ideal, Raspberry Pi/BeagleBone Black?
03:52	BingoBoingo	Nah, rolling your own silicon should be possible by nao
03:53	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: neither. Pick beast from the 80's and write it to a cheap FPGA dev board
03:53	fluffypony	mebbe
03:53	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2294 @ 0.00099948 = 2.2928 BTC [+]
03:53	fluffypony	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_computing_hardware
03:53	ozbot	Open-source computing hardware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
03:54	fluffypony	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkymist <- interesting
03:54	ozbot	M-Labs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
03:54	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: If BFL taught us anything it is that it takes little to make dedicated silicon for a dream architecture.
03:54	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: sure, in quantity, but if you're rolling it yourself for your own purposes?
03:55	Diablo-D3	fluffypony: something like the rpi works
03:55	Diablo-D3	its unlikely theres any major problems with it
03:55	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: Why advertise it as that? Posit the thing as a student architecture.
03:55	Diablo-D3	although all nics ARE backdoored and can DMA anywhere in ram
03:55	BingoBoingo	An actual top down version of what RPi wants to be
03:56	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Yeah, ethernet is the big problem
03:56	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: someone needs to fab the silicon, and are you going to get an electron microscope to check that its to-spec?
03:56	Diablo-D3	you could strip the ethernet out and use usb to serial or w/e
03:56	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: RS-232
03:56	fluffypony	Diablo-D3: if we're going air-gapped for offline signing/decryption ethernet shouldn't be a concern
03:56	Diablo-D3	like I said, serial
03:56	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: niggers.txt
03:57	Diablo-D3	fluffypony: you have to update the software either way
03:57	fluffypony	Diablo-D3: true
03:57	Diablo-D3	fluffypony: and airgapped doesnt work with bitcoin
03:57	BingoBoingo	No, updating the software defeats an actual air gap
03:57	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: then hell
03:57	fluffypony	Diablo-D3: you can sign transactions offline
03:57	Diablo-D3	just use gpg on dos.
03:57	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Air gap on Dos can work
03:57	Diablo-D3	(yes, theres a gpg build out there somewhere for dos)
03:58	BingoBoingo	C is a more portable language than Java
03:58	fluffypony	http://s3.computerhistory.org/source/msdos.zip
03:58	Diablo-D3	claiming java isnt portable, however, is a bad argument
03:58	Diablo-D3	because, sadly, it really does work on tons of shit
03:58	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Not at all. I am jsut claiming C is more portable.
03:58	Diablo-D3	why? I dont know
03:58	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: C is portable to shit that should not be running C
03:59	Diablo-D3	anything written in modern C simply will not work on them without a lot of help
03:59	Diablo-D3	99.9% of shit will break if char is not 8 bit, short is not 16 bit, and int is not 32 bit
03:59	fluffypony	"You should be also be cautioned that the MSDOS stack is not deep. You should not count on more than one or two pushes of the registers."
03:59	Diablo-D3	even though it is within the C specification for them not to be
04:00	Diablo-D3	(and yes, int cant be 64 bit either, some OS got this wrong and broke shit, long is the only one that should be native)
04:01	BingoBoingo	Still which of {C,Java} works best on Z80?
04:01	Diablo-D3	neither.
04:02	fluffypony	so someone needs to write GPG for BASIC?
04:02	Diablo-D3	C on 8 bit machines is horrid
04:02	fluffypony	20 GOTO 10
04:02	Diablo-D3	the gpg for dos thing is obviously a 32 bit binary
04:02	BingoBoingo	The point of C is to be horrid, to be the last resort.
04:02	Diablo-D3	not really
04:03	Diablo-D3	Ive coded C for over 15 years
04:03	Diablo-D3	if you know how to use it, its a nice language
04:03	BingoBoingo	C is a nice language. I am not disputing that.
04:03	Diablo-D3	C is an absolutely fucking horrid language
04:04	Diablo-D3	I said "if you know how to use it"
04:04	Diablo-D3	it takes the better part of a decade to get there.
04:04	bounce	so what do you prefer? haskell? ruby?
04:04	Diablo-D3	bounce: I had a love affair with erlang for awhile
04:04	BingoBoingo	bounce: 68K assembly.
04:04	Diablo-D3	ruby is a fucking shit pile
04:04	bounce	too bad the z80 doesn't do that
04:04	BingoBoingo	TI-89 and classic Mac FTW
04:04	Diablo-D3	its like the guys who created it had no clue what the fuck a language was
04:04	Diablo-D3	and cargo culted it together
04:05	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: yay I have a ti-89
04:05	Diablo-D3	I need to take it apart though
04:05	bounce	anyway, mind sticking to the topic and present some viable engineering choices that'll work on z80? (as distinct from your personal preferences that work plenty fine on your desktop)
04:05	Diablo-D3	it hasnt been cleaned since I got it at the start of high school
04:05	Diablo-D3	and Im now 30.
04:05	Diablo-D3	I wipe the keys off sometimes, but theres shit just ground into it
04:06	BingoBoingo	bounce: Did I ever offer Z80 as an only option? I would kill for a multicore gigahertz class Coldfire dev board rated for server use
04:07	Diablo-D3	bounce: Im considering learning scala though
04:07	Diablo-D3	I dont hate the jvm. I dont even hate java all that much anymore.
04:07	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: I actually sold my TI-89 for money to buy weed
04:07	Diablo-D3	java 8 fixed a lot of the long standing issues java has
04:07	bounce	you were talking about z80, and I thought it was interesting enough to explore that a bit. still have a kaypro in an attic somewhere. should probably dust if off some time
04:07	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: I never use my ti-89
04:08	Diablo-D3	which is kind of sad
04:08	BingoBoingo	bounce: I like the Z80 as an example to suppose.
04:08	bounce	it's a good example since (I'm told, haven't investigated) various smart card type things have a z80-type core on board
04:09	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: My TI-89 met it's end in my usefulness when I realized the cheaper Mac Classic was basically the same thing.
04:09	Diablo-D3	yeah z80 is the best 8bit microcontroller cpu ever
04:09	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: I just needed a ti calc because it was mandatory for math classes in high school
04:09	Diablo-D3	best $150 I spent
04:10	BingoBoingo	I think asciilifeform is right about the Lisps being the future though
04:10	bounce	relevant for this channel is the gpg-card thingies. problem with those is that the source isn't available, though a spec is. an open source implementation would be nice, and perhaps cheaper than sourcing the closed-source thing.
04:10	Diablo-D3	loaded up video games on it
04:10	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: all languages are slowly becoming lisp, including lisp
04:10	Diablo-D3	lisp really is the best language ever created
04:10	BingoBoingo	Not really, clojure becomes less LISP every release
04:10	Diablo-D3	clojure never really was a lisp
04:10	bounce	so if you're looking for an embedded type project, that's as a good an angle as anything
04:11	fluffypony	Clojure thinks it's a lisp
04:11	fluffypony	so does Scheme
04:11	bounce	so which is more acceptably lisp-y, ruby or clojure? </troll>
04:11	BingoBoingo	Scheme is a LISP though
04:12	BingoBoingo	bounce: Python is probably more LISPy than Ruby or Clojure
04:12	fluffypony	python is definitely more lispy than both
04:12	bounce	how so?
04:12	BingoBoingo	bounce: The bedrock abstractions are more solid
04:12	Diablo-D3	the only lisps Im interested in is chicken and racket
04:13	Diablo-D3	bounce: ruby is just a mistake imo
04:13	Diablo-D3	like php is
04:13	fluffypony	ok breakfast time, bbl
04:13	Diablo-D3	it was written by people who clearly were not veteran programmers and understood no good patterns
04:14	BingoBoingo	Ruby is basically a python fork that broke the underlying interpreter
04:14	bounce	did they get around to plug the resource leaks in the reference interpreter?
04:14	BingoBoingo	PHP was a nobel but flawed attempt to make HTML a scriptable server language
04:15	bounce	lovely how it attracts nothing but n00bs and how even the core devs reflect that sad fact. a fractal of bad design, indeed.
04:15	Diablo-D3	BingoBoingo: I will agree ruby is very python inspired
04:15	BingoBoingo	In this way PHP was at least born with a purpose. Where as Ruby was born with "lol, suck cocks"
04:15	Diablo-D3	but all the bad parts
04:15	Diablo-D3	although Im not sure python has good parts
04:16	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Python is great as a modern alternative to BASIC
04:16	Diablo-D3	I dont understand how people can handle a language that successfully resists static analysis
04:16	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Well, they handle it because they don't have pubes yet.
04:16	BingoBoingo	It is a learnign language
04:16	Diablo-D3	thats a non-argument
04:17	Diablo-D3	I learned C when I was 14.
04:17	Diablo-D3	anything younger than 14 should be started on lisp.
04:18	BingoBoingo	That isn't how schools have been capable of thinking though. I learned turtle graphics at 11 on an Apple II with software written in 1995. Schools make the worst decisions.
04:18	Diablo-D3	yes, I could care less what schools do
04:18	Diablo-D3	you do not learn how to program at a school
04:18	Diablo-D3	programming is an art form
04:18	bounce	so you could care less. well, time to show some love and caring, eh.
04:18	BingoBoingo	!up sunshyne
04:18	assbot	Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.
04:19	Diablo-D3	you learn programming by programming
04:19	Diablo-D3	anyhow who says otherwise is confusing programming with computer science
04:19	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00099948 = 17.5908 BTC [+] {2}
04:20	Diablo-D3	nif you want computer science
04:20	Diablo-D3	just read through TAoCP
04:20	Diablo-D3	dont need a school for that
04:21	BingoBoingo	need can be a tricky work
04:21	BingoBoingo	!up Diablo-D3
04:21	assbot	Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.
04:21	Diablo-D3	TAoCP is rather straight forward imo
04:21	Diablo-D3	and once you learn how to program, any language works really
04:22	Diablo-D3	programming is about learning patterns and when to use them
04:22	BingoBoingo	Someone can probably be a gentleman without reading Clausewitz much like someone can program without school.
04:22	Diablo-D3	its no different than learning how to play chess
04:22	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Would you be up for a game of chess?
04:23	Diablo-D3	I havent played chess in long long time
04:23	Diablo-D3	and Im too distracted to enjoy it right now anyhow
04:23	BingoBoingo	Eh, I've imbibed quite a bit of ETOH since this conversation started
04:24	BingoBoingo	I'll even offer the four possible opening lines I'd play
04:24	bounce	I need a shower and to find me a board, but I could be up after.
04:25	BingoBoingo	As white I'd play the queen's gambit. As black responding to E4, the pirc, to d4 the slav, and to anything else a spanking.
04:27	BingoBoingo	This is pretty much the mode I've offered to any players approaching me in this channel
04:28	Diablo-D3	iirc there are no good online chess things anyhow
04:28	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: If you have algebraic notation IRC works fine
04:28	Diablo-D3	I hate doing that
04:29	BingoBoingo	Chess is a great game in that precise notation exists for every possible move
04:30	Diablo-D3	I dont think I even own a chess board anymore.
04:31	BingoBoingo	I no longer have nickel cadmium batteries
04:32	BingoBoingo	I'd like to no longer have LI-ION batteries
04:34	mircea_popescu	goood morning everyone!
04:34	BingoBoingo	;;later tell bitcoinpete When you asked about a line betting operation did the tweet I offered convey enough info?
04:34	gribble	The operation succeeded.
04:34	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Morning
04:35	BingoBoingo	How was the conference?
04:35	mircea_popescu	pretty great!
04:36	mircea_popescu	gonna put some pix up once i go through my mail and stuff
04:36	BingoBoingo	Nice.
04:36	mircea_popescu	how was the chan meanwhile ?
04:36	BingoBoingo	Slow
04:36	BingoBoingo	I ended up travelling just a little bit this weekend.
04:36	Diablo-D3	[04:31:43] <BingoBoingo> I no longer have nickel cadmium batteries
04:36	Diablo-D3	[04:32:16] <BingoBoingo> I'd like to no longer have LI-ION batteries
04:36	Diablo-D3	eventually we wont
04:36	Diablo-D3	graphene supercaps
04:36	mircea_popescu	o look who's here. didja find france alright davout ?
04:37	mircea_popescu	Diablo-D3 afaik graphene is still a ways off.
04:37	BingoBoingo	Diablo-D3: Actually I am hoping for a revival and enhancement of Silver-Zinc batteries
04:38	mircea_popescu	did that byrne kid ever manage to find his way here ?
04:38	BingoBoingo	?
04:39	BingoBoingo	The logs are sparse the past couple days, so I doubt many newcomers...
04:40	Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: in the next five years, graphene supercaps will become a commercial reality
04:40	Diablo-D3	they already have semi-functioning prototypes
04:40	Diablo-D3	their big problem right now is that they're so energy dense, they're hard to handle
04:40	mircea_popescu	Diablo-D3 i bet you that i won't be able to buy a graphene supercap battery at a convenience store in 2019.
04:41	Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: well, no, you wouldnt
04:41	Diablo-D3	that'd be nonsensical
04:41	mircea_popescu	...
04:41	BingoBoingo	If they were there I dunno that I would want to buy them
04:41	mircea_popescu	well whatever, radioshack
04:41	Diablo-D3	that'd be like buying a li-ion battery at a store
04:41	Diablo-D3	you dont
04:41	Diablo-D3	you need the safety mechanism so you dont kill yourself
04:41	mircea_popescu	some sort of consumer accessible outlet
04:41	Diablo-D3	Im surprised, btw, alkalines are even made anymore
04:41	Diablo-D3	they're old hat
04:42	BingoBoingo	... Usually I buy lithium batteries at the store, Li-ion, LI-polymer and otherwise
04:42	mircea_popescu	^
04:42	Diablo-D3	I put lithiums in anything that a regchargable is inappropriate for
04:42	Diablo-D3	like, devices that stay continuously powered more than 2 years, or go outside, or are clocks, etc
04:42	BingoBoingo	I have yet to see a Lithium 364 button cell
04:43	fluffypony	alkalines are still available here - just yesterday I had to buy some AAs and got to choose between alkalines, lithiums, and nimh rechargeables
04:43	Diablo-D3	I use lsd nimhs in all.... two devices that need batteries
04:43	Diablo-D3	well, that arent clocks or continuous long term shit
04:43	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform needed some batteries for his demo yest, i had the maitre d' scare up some batteries, he came back with two alkalines
04:44	Diablo-D3	my harmony remote, and my ti-89
04:44	Diablo-D3	thats _it_
04:44	Diablo-D3	I have nothing that uses batteries anymore
04:44	Diablo-D3	the two clocks and the temp sensors use lithiums for obvious reasons
04:45	BingoBoingo	I own more watches than other battery powered devices, but of the ones that don't operate on mechanical energy, solver oxide cells are the most prevalent.
04:45	bounce	what, no automatics?
04:46	Diablo-D3	bounce: nope
04:46	BingoBoingo	bounce: Automatics use mechanical energy
04:46	BingoBoingo	The rotor winds the spring
04:46	bounce	right. what was the electrical equivalent, 'kinetic' or something?
04:46	fluffypony	davout: bonjour
04:47	fluffypony	bounce: yeah, Seiko had "kinetic"
04:47	fluffypony	Citizen has solar
04:47	BingoBoingo	bounce: Kinetic is the seiko term, other manufacterers use different names because trademarks. That is for electrical charging by those means though.
04:48	BingoBoingo	Seiko still makes proper mechanical automatic movements though.
04:48	bounce	kid in school had a solar, very sparse design. just even matte background for the face, which also was the solar panel only you'd not notice.
04:49	fluffypony	bounce: I have 3 Citizen solars
04:49	fluffypony	lemme take photo
04:49	BingoBoingo	The sun's overrated. I'd kind of prefer an all tritium powered watch
04:50	bounce	used to have a... citizen? automatic. need fixing though, in the end it was off by half an hour a day. should've gotten it fixed while still in warranty. silly me.
04:50	BingoBoingo	Oh http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/04/21/that-didnt-take-long/
04:51	BingoBoingo	bounce: It really depends on the particular watch whether it is worth saving or not.
04:52	mircea_popescu	quartzes rarely are.
04:52	BingoBoingo	bounce: Even in the worst case you want to keep them stored well in case everyone else with them decides they aren't worth saving and you end up with something rate
04:53	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I have yet to actually see a quartz automatic outisde of a few questionable seiko examples
04:53	mircea_popescu	what do you mean ?
04:54	mircea_popescu	;;google quartz clock
04:54	gribble	Quartz clock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_clock>; HowStuffWorks "How Quartz Watches Work": <http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/clocks-watches/quartz-watch.htm>; Quartz Time Only Clock Movements | Klockit: <http://www.klockit.com/depts/QuartzTimeOnlyClockMovements/dept-157.html>
04:54	mircea_popescu	that thing ?
04:54	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Seiko has a mechanical powered quartz regulated movement they call "Spring Drive"
04:54	BingoBoingo	Seiko also has a mechanically recharged all electric quarts they call kinetic
04:55	mircea_popescu	oh oh. yeah some swiss makers actually tried using quartz oscialltors as an error limiter at some point
04:56	BingoBoingo	The couple I've seen inherited the worst parts of quartz and mechanical movements.
04:56	fluffypony	bounce: http://i.imgur.com/ppkGOKj.jpg
04:56	fluffypony	you wouldn't be able to tell any of those are solar panels at a glance
04:56	mircea_popescu	exactly.
04:57	BingoBoingo	ANd the only I've known of were all made by Japs
04:57	mircea_popescu	perhaps resolvable, but i think people just gave up
04:57	BingoBoingo	Probably. It is hard to compete with a CR 2032 at anything.
04:58	BingoBoingo	I'd like to see more accutron like tuning fork movements though.
04:58	BingoBoingo	mechanicaly charged mass regulated would be nearly perfect.
04:59	mircea_popescu	judging by the excellent results electrostatic speakers show it's a wonder they've not tried that yet actually.
04:59	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00099729 = 9.4743 BTC [-] {2}
04:59	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: It probably goes back to flawed fiat assumptions about costs.
05:00	BingoBoingo	I have yet to see anything as beautiful as the original accutron movements.
05:01	BingoBoingo	The few I've worked on take 357 batteries though, and that is a lot of silver for a year and a half of function.
05:03	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: http://www.watchalyzer.com/wp-content/gallery/bulova-accutron/bulova-accutron-214-movement.jpg
05:03	fluffypony	I love the exposed resistor
05:04	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: That is literally the most boring part of the thing.
05:04	bounce	wonder how they do white solar panels.
05:04	bounce	on IIRC my watch is a casio instead. hm. doesn't really matter.
05:05	fluffypony	bounce: no clue, it's quite impressive that they make it look like a regular watch face
05:06	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: Those two sections wrapped in wire are a tuning fork.
05:06	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00099253 = 15.3842 BTC [-] {3}
05:06	BingoBoingo	The tuning fork both keeps time and moves the hands
05:07	fluffypony	nice
05:07	fluffypony	are the batteries hard to come by?
05:07	BingoBoingo	Quartz coming later keeps time better, but only keeps time.
05:07	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: Here batteries are easy to find, standard 357s
05:08	BingoBoingo	Just, don't try the other kind of 357
05:10	fluffypony	they're not badly priced in decent condition
05:12	BingoBoingo	Well, decent doesn't say too much... How many people alive can make them sing (I actually, literally mean sing)
05:12	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: sing by striking the tuning fork?
05:13	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: Not striking, resonating. That's what the coils of copper wire do. It's a fucking watch, not a rail gun.
05:14	fluffypony	although a pocket rail gun would be amazing
05:14	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
05:14	fluffypony	a:-P
05:15	BingoBoingo	A silver oxide cell would offer the worst possible discharge curve for that purpose though.
05:15	BingoBoingo	!up Diablo-D3
05:15	assbot	Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.
05:15	Diablo-D3	thx
05:17	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: I know people rip on Wikipedia in this chan, but it wouldn't be the worst place to start in understanding how 1950's tech works
05:17	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: cool will give it a squizzle
05:20	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: Did I ever mention how your presence makes me miss truffles?
05:20	fluffypony	hah hah
05:20	fluffypony	no you haven't
05:21	BingoBoingo	That wasn't an endorsement...
05:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00099848 = 2.8956 BTC [+]
05:23	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: this is interesting - http://www.ablogtowatch.com/top-ten-technically-important-watches-from-1950/
05:24	fluffypony	"The movement was, however, used in spacecraft instrument clocks and other time-keeping mechanisms, partly also because NASA was still unsure how gravity would affect mechanical movements."
05:25	BingoBoingo	It is amazing how personal timekeeping hasn't had any advancements since 1970, much like how you still seem fluffypony to be the sort that would borrow bitcoin for cheap polyester couches.
05:25	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
05:26	fluffypony	why on earth would I borrow money to buy a couch?
05:26	*	BingoBoingo drinks hatorade, goes to bed
05:27	Diablo-D3	lol
05:29	fluffypony	bounce: 1972, first solar watch - http://70swatchesgallery.wordpress.com/2011/03/19/synchronar/
05:29	fluffypony	actually looks kinda awesome
05:34	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/
05:34	ozbot	Ca tot… s-a tras tot s-a fumat tot s-a baut tot cum e peste tot ? La fel ca peste tot. pe Trilema
05:34	mircea_popescu	conference pix etc.
05:36	fluffypony	looks like fun - rumour has it next year will be in Argentina?
05:37	fluffypony	then South Africa 2016, we can have a Halvening Party and I'll arrange a safari
05:38	mircea_popescu	and we halven the lion population ?
05:39	fluffypony	that can be arranged, like all things, for a price :-P
05:49	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00099862 = 11.7837 BTC [+] {2}
06:00	mircea_popescu	Adam Penenberg is such an idiot. o herp, please help along with the grandiose effort of making usg snooping more user-acceptable.
06:02	mircea_popescu	turbo_ac100 why me ?!
06:03	mircea_popescu	bounce "the odd dos-only application that's critical to the business and irreplacable" << this should be ridiculous but isn't. most "tools" of today aren't actally as good as the tools of the 90s.
06:05	mircea_popescu	bounce:
06:05	mircea_popescu	on that note, often manufacturers explicitly forbid to install updates and servicepacks since it might well break the app. << since heartbleed i'm going to forbid any upgrades as part of the contract in all cases, always and forever.
06:05	mircea_popescu	from what i hear i'm by no means of a minority oppinion (even if i no longer to that sort of thing on any sort of scale)
06:06	mircea_popescu	;;later tell cgcardona lol is it the first best largest wot ?
06:06	gribble	The operation succeeded.
06:08	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6549 @ 0.0009935 = 6.5064 BTC [-] {2}
06:09	mircea_popescu	;;rate jurov 5 Years of promises kept.
06:09	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 4 to 5.
06:10	mircea_popescu	;;rate wao 1 Sold me a large bitcoin.
06:10	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user wao has been recorded.
06:12	mircea_popescu	;;rate thickasthieves 3 Vegetarian.
06:12	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user thickasthieves has changed from 1 to 3.
06:16	mircea_popescu	http://www.fastcompany.com/3029119/most-innovative-companies/tencent-the-secretive-chinese-tech-giant-that-can-rival-facebook-a
06:16	ozbot	Tencent: The Secretive, Chinese Tech Giant That Can Rival Facebook and Amazon | Fast Company | Busin
06:16	mircea_popescu	le derp.
06:18	fluffypony	the CEO's name is Pony?
06:18	fluffypony	I like him already.
06:18	mircea_popescu	fluffypony: in which /r/Bitcoin can't decide whether to spend its ten cents on supersizing the coke or the fries. it's really unfair anyway because if they supersize one they should get the other for free. << FTFY
06:20	fluffypony	touché
06:21	mircea_popescu	lol coinet srsly ? ALL THESE THINGS nobody ever heard of being the biggest ever in their obscure corner onoes!
06:22	mircea_popescu	;;seen mike_c
06:22	gribble	mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 6 hours, 35 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <mike_c> plus hard work is its own reward
06:23	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: that was a typo, was meant to be coinbet
06:23	mircea_popescu	i think i typoed it
06:23	mircea_popescu	anyway, was reading the article. pretty lulzy
06:23	fluffypony	I did too in the log
06:23	fluffypony	yeah
06:23	fluffypony	the scary thing is that they DID get a shitton of media coverage
06:24	fluffypony	and gamblers (of all people) trust some random site with no track record
06:25	fluffypony	domain registered in fucking December, we're now in April, they barely lasted 4 months of scamming
06:27	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.0009913 = 3.9652 BTC [-]
06:27	mircea_popescu	the way this shit works is, fucktard of the ilk of that byrne fellow figures he knows shit, gets some investors together, anywhere between a few 10s of k's to maybe a million,
06:27	mircea_popescu	then blows the whole wad on advertising and freerolls.
06:27	mircea_popescu	then discovers his ROI is about 3 to 5%
06:27	mircea_popescu	then decides to scam the few legit customers he has to return a 1/5 to 1/3 equity to his invesotrs, and story ends there.
06:28	fluffypony	messed up
06:28	mircea_popescu	https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/458187310480494593
06:28	ozbot	Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @ryancharleston Stop being ...
06:28	mircea_popescu	a fine example, that idiot.
06:29	fluffypony	hah hah
06:29	mircea_popescu	"You asked a serious article ? A real investigation ? Here I am here I am!"
06:29	mircea_popescu	"Their common ? They both worked at Orange / France Telecom , the first from 2007 to 2011, the second from 2005 to 2011 . They are logically met through this company that pushes people into suicide."
06:29	mircea_popescu	ole!
06:30	mircea_popescu	"Out of nowhere like a UFO website beegcoin edited by BEEG CORPORATION LIMITED, registered in London and created by young French to be, I think, a huge slap to the ego -centric bitcoin.
06:30	mircea_popescu	ok this shit's pretty good.
06:31	mircea_popescu	;;later tell thickasthieves http://gigaom.com/2014/01/19/on-free-speech-and-blogging-the-first-amendment-applies-to-everyone-not-just-journalists/
06:31	gribble	The operation succeeded.
06:31	mircea_popescu	fluffypony:
06:31	mircea_popescu	cgcardona_: just told that to my wife (she's vegetarian), now she's walking around doing her Plants vs. Zombies impersonation << this woman sounds like she needs a daily vlog.
06:31	fluffypony	hah hah
06:32	fluffypony	only if we can monetise it
06:32	mircea_popescu	what do you care, she's going around doing "grainzzzz" anyway.
06:33	mircea_popescu	do that for a year, audience builts, then she can prolly start her own eyeliner line
06:33	fluffypony	lol
06:33	fluffypony	I'll suggest it:)
06:33	mircea_popescu	or w/e, make every woman in south africa wear uncomfortable bras just fore the hell of it
06:36	bounce	"journalists not so speshul". funny how that needs a court to tell them journos.
06:36	mircea_popescu	indeed.
06:37	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22086 @ 0.0009913 = 21.8939 BTC [-]
06:37	mircea_popescu	artifexd: Put that ink in your printer and make a super sekrit paper wallet. << plain white wallpaper with floral designs that morphs into japanese girls and octopuses once you shine a black light in the dark.
06:39	mircea_popescu	jurov: mircea will certainly come soon, maybe after a lil fuck << my fucks are not little.
06:39	mircea_popescu	experientia docet.
06:39	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla: dammit. << that's right rainscamboy! and now it's fucking sunny, chicks be tanning nude in my yard.
06:40	mircea_popescu	jurov: Apocalyptic: imagine world directors talking about important topics whole days wrapped in clouds of smoke << this is shockingly true, i think we smoked a small dog's weight of tobacco
06:41	fluffypony	experientia docet? I thought we were against that? :-P
06:41	mircea_popescu	fluffypony: I love foosball << davout is fucking criminal at that thing. he beat everyone, single against teams, everything.
06:41	fluffypony	docendo discitur, on the other hand...
06:41	mircea_popescu	no, fucking is exempt
06:42	mircea_popescu	o which reminds me! if any of the esteemed VIPs can repeat either of my two little latin fables, there's a prize!
06:45	mircea_popescu	!up keonne
06:45	assbot	Voicing keonne for 30 minutes.
06:46	mircea_popescu	who was asking about china's political influence a few days ago ? here it is :
06:46	mircea_popescu	https://twitter.com/Edourdoo/status/458160399964061696
06:46	ozbot	Twitter / Edourdoo: Obama unlikely to win over ...
06:46	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.0009913 = 10.706 BTC [-]
06:47	bounce	one of things with investor/state extortion thingies in it, innit?
06:48	mircea_popescu	bounce hm ?
06:48	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-04-2014#625895
06:48	ozbot	#bitcoin-assets log
06:48	mircea_popescu	thats the reference.
06:49	bounce	ayup, it does.
06:50	bounce	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement
06:50	ozbot	Investor-state dispute settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
06:52	mircea_popescu	aha yea
06:57	mircea_popescu	Diablo-D3: the bot should just be set to autovoice me < nope.
06:57	mircea_popescu	you should have long by now learned that you're not really worth two shits as you are, and until and unless you change to be more useful.
06:58	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0009913 = 9.2191 BTC [-]
06:59	mircea_popescu	whoa done with three days' logs! a hero is me.
07:00	mircea_popescu	ty dear ppls for not having made it TOO difficult >D
07:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.0009916 = 2.4294 BTC [+]
07:22	thestringpuller	!t m s.mpoe
07:22	assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00098037 / 0.0009918 / 0.00099972 (1033439 shares, 1,024.97 BTC), 7D: 0.00095214 / 0.00097861 / 0.00101 (3821859 shares, 3,740.13 BTC), 30D: 0.00092844 / 0.000959 / 0.00101 (20718626 shares, 19,869.30 BTC)
07:31	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00099055 = 25.0609 BTC [-] {3}
07:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 40 @ 0.00600538 = 0.2402 BTC [-] {3}
07:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.0735 = 0.2205 BTC [+] {2}
07:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00099192 = 18.2017 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 25 minutes ~
08:05	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.03 = 0.18 BTC [-] {2}
		~ 21 minutes ~
08:27	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3546 @ 0.00098862 = 3.5056 BTC [-]
08:33	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25200 @ 0.00099132 = 24.9813 BTC [+] {4}
08:33	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04250066 = 0.1275 BTC [+] {2}
08:34	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.0742218 = 0.2227 BTC [-]
08:47	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16588 @ 0.00099614 = 16.524 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 23 minutes ~
09:10	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]
09:20	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00099989 = 8.699 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 24 minutes ~
09:45	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15454 @ 0.00099653 = 15.4004 BTC [-] {2}
09:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.0048201 = 0.3181 BTC [-] {3}
09:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00099604 = 5.777 BTC [-]
		~ 15 minutes ~
10:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13108 @ 0.00099604 = 13.0561 BTC [-]
		~ 16 minutes ~
10:23	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10008 @ 0.00100002 = 10.0082 BTC [+]
10:30	FabianB	Tencent's CEO: "In America, when you bring an idea to market you usually have several months before competition pops up, allowing you to capture significant market share. In China, you can have hundreds of competitors within the first hours of going live. Ideas are not important in China--execution is."
10:32	mircea_popescu	i heard that before
10:35	mircea_popescu	"Marketers have created a profile for young urban millennial males with money to burn, but it's hard to believe this creature exists"
10:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5 BTC [-]
10:40	mircea_popescu	justusranvier can i pay you to get off that accursed blogspot thing ?
10:41	mircea_popescu	and also pankkake http://bitcoinism.blogspot.ro/2013/12/lex-cryptographia.html b-a material ?
10:44	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.0425 = 0.34 BTC [-]
10:45	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 8 @ 0.0742218 = 0.5938 BTC [-]
10:45	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.04201018 = 0.2521 BTC [-] {3}
10:46	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.0742218 = 0.4453 BTC [-]
10:47	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.0416111 = 0.2497 BTC [-] {2}
10:48	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.0742218 = 0.4453 BTC [-]
10:50	mircea_popescu	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlvuyjFIEAA6mBb.jpg:large
10:50	mircea_popescu	uk men be insecure
10:52	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: wrt making Sybil attacks harder, isn't there/couldn't there be a GPG-like system that uses a common private key for a single owner, but also hash some sort of easily identifiable GUID as part of the pubkey/signature to indicate which machine it is on? that way an attacker's work becomes slightly more complex, as they need to not only create profiles but have a fresh VM/install/whatever for them
		↖
10:53	mircea_popescu	how are fresh vms difficult ?
10:53	fluffypony	they're more difficult
10:54	mircea_popescu	they're more difficult for the wrong demographic.
10:54	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.04153174 = 0.2907 BTC [-] {2}
10:54	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.0742218 = 0.5196 BTC [-]
10:54	fluffypony	I suppose
10:54	fluffypony	have there been any identified Sybil attacks on the WoT?
10:55	mircea_popescu	all the time. i recall stomping one [\\\] spotted in like... 2012 ?
10:55	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 500 @ 0.14 = 70 BTC
10:55	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04100001 = 0.123 BTC [-]
10:56	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.0742218 = 0.2227 BTC [-]
10:57	mircea_popescu	http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/report-ebola-suspected-in-europe-broken-through-all-containment-efforts_04202014
10:57	ozbot	Report: Ebola Suspected In Europe: "Broken Through All Containment Efforts"
10:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 25 @ 0.0742218 = 1.8555 BTC [-]
10:59	fluffypony	http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/reop
10:59	ozbot	reop - reasonable expectation of privacy
11:02	mircea_popescu	"reop is clearly influenced by signify (What can I say? I like my own designs.), but it’s not a clone." done reading there.
11:03	fluffypony	skip down to the GPG complaints at the bottom
11:03	mircea_popescu	"Holy shit! What kind of toy random number generator is GPG using? Never mind that the message is printed twice. Never mind that both messages flick by before I have half a chance to read them, let alone do anything to entropize my system. “Wiggle the mouse for moar entropies.” I wouldn’t trust a program that prints messages like this to protect my middle school slambook."
11:03	mircea_popescu	so guy is an imbecile.
11:04	mircea_popescu	how's this different from the previous conclusion
11:04	fluffypony	yep
11:06	mircea_popescu	!up exchange01
11:06	assbot	Voicing exchange01 for 30 minutes.
11:07	fluffypony	"[00:20:08] <~spacenerf> lot of people made PGP'alikes using this shniz, most of which are difficult to deal with/possibly broken on some platforms etc"
11:07	fluffypony	that's it in a nutshell
11:07	mircea_popescu	here's to hoping that this is the first, biggest and largest exchange
11:07	exchange01	can i speak to you in private i am not familar with irc
11:08	mircea_popescu	fluffypony the guy is derping about what "gpg does in 2014" forgetting to even mention what version he's using. because everything in his head was born this year, so obviously...
11:08	mircea_popescu	exchange01 you can just say here.
11:08	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: agreed
11:10	mircea_popescu	to not even get in the advanced topics of how 50%+1 of crypto-related specs are broken by design anyway. what sort of argument is this, that package x is bad because it allows user to do something some rfc says should not be done ? blergh.
11:10	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: but he likes it because it's "his design" and so therefore infallible
11:11	mircea_popescu	so who is this guy ? doing an ipo or anything ?
11:11	mircea_popescu	insufficiently beaten millenials.
11:11	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.0010003 = 5.8518 BTC [+] {2}
11:12	fluffypony	exchange01: crash course on IRC - you type the words, you press the enter, they come out on the screen
11:12	fluffypony	majik
11:13	exchange01	fluffypony thank you very much for this introduction, but i am wondering are you certified to say that ? :)
11:13	mircea_popescu	lol
11:14	exchange01	mircea_popescu are you receiving what im sending u using /msg ?
11:14	fluffypony	exchange01: I have a BIRC from the University of the Internet-pre-1995
11:14	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo why is this byrne kid so fixated on the entire personal attack angle ? he told thickashtieves the same thing, yet how the heck would his being clueless a personal attack on me. wtf, i'm not his mother.
11:15	mircea_popescu	exchange01 i don't hold private conversations with people i don't know. this is kinda the basis of private conversations : the parties must be acquainted.
11:15	mircea_popescu	speak your business publicly, what is it ?
11:15	exchange01	yes
11:16	exchange01	its a small exchanger, we are thinking about making an IPO on havelocks
11:16	exchange01	and being listed, but I am looking for other options and I've been told about Mpex
11:16	mircea_popescu	what's small exchanger mean ?
11:16	exchange01	low volume
11:16	mircea_popescu	this is still exceedingly vague.
11:17	exchange01	I know, well, i am wondering if you guys have any suggestions as you know finding financing for that kind of business is impossible
11:18	mircea_popescu	well i dunno man, so far there's not much here to go on. what suggestions are you looking for ?
11:18	exchange01	Well, is it possible to get listed on Mpex like dice ?
11:19	exchange01	what would be the requirements for that ?
11:20	mircea_popescu	it is possible, in principle.
11:20	mircea_popescu	;;google requirements to list on mpex
11:20	gribble	MPEx - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MPEx>; How does one list on MPEx ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/how-does-one-list-on-mpex>; MPEX Data Access: <http://data.eol.ucar.edu/master_list/?project=MPEX>
11:20	exchange01	i can send you our business plan mircea if you want
11:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.041 = 0.205 BTC [-]
11:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.03275 = 0.655 BTC [+] {4}
11:20	exchange01	business model
11:21	fluffypony	;;ident exchange01
11:21	gribble	Nick 'exchange01', with hostmask 'exchange01!43cc18ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.204.24.174', is not identified.
11:21	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.03075 = 0.615 BTC [-] {4}
11:22	fluffypony	"Credible WOT presence."
11:22	fluffypony	exchange01: you need that ^^
11:22	exchange01	i need to register ?
11:22	exchange01	on irc
11:22	fluffypony	exchange01: http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/Beginners_Guide
11:22	fluffypony	start there
11:22	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06500102 = 0.65 BTC [-] {2}
11:22	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00481065 = 0.2405 BTC [-] {3}
11:23	fluffypony	register with the WoT, and then build your WoT profile over time
11:23	exchange01	;;calc 1 + 1
11:23	gribble	2
11:23	mircea_popescu	.d
11:23	ozbot	6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1369 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.8229% in 8d 2h 11m 44s
11:24	mircea_popescu	"Likewise, today when a Westerner tells a Lebanese Shiite that he has a separate "ethnicity", he is baffled. Mazhab is not ethnicity, no more than being a democrat in the US would be a different race (although it should be)."
11:24	mircea_popescu	lmap
11:24	exchange01	ok i will start with that, thank you @mircea and @fluffy
11:24	fluffypony	any time :)
11:27	mircea_popescu	"Having spent more than two decades, as an option trader and book-runner (~ 650,000 trades), I have always been leery of inexperienced academics talking about "prediction markets" when we have organic, spontaneously formed markets, and have had them since civilization started --my reaction is that of an old plane engineer and pilot being lectured by a high school English student who never flew a plane. You can't tell t
11:27	mircea_popescu	hem what they don't know. "
11:27	mircea_popescu	ok, that's me reading all the derpage. ethereum, smart contracts, bla bla.
11:28	mircea_popescu	http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2284964
11:28	ozbot	On the Difference between Binary Prediction and True Exposure with Implications for Forecasting Tour
11:30	fluffypony	hah hah - failed attempts at legitimacy 101: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Autonomous_Corporation
11:30	fluffypony	they can't even decide what the D stands for
11:31	fluffypony	there they say Digital, but in one of the references it says "Distributed Autonomous Corporations (DACs), or Decentralized Autonomous Companies"
11:31	mircea_popescu	http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/notebook.htm
11:31	mircea_popescu	this bit (taleb) is actually pretty good.
11:31	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform o check what has a wikipedia article!
11:31	mircea_popescu	some obscure shit that was never mentioned anywhere is notable! eleven
11:33	fluffypony	"This article includes a list of references, related reading or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks inline citations."
11:33	fluffypony	heh heh
11:33	fluffypony	"Bitcoin itself can be viewed as an early form of DAC. We are generalizing the concept for use in the open source community, building on Bitcoin's proven technology. Bitcoin could be reimplemented as a full open standards-compliant DAC. Perhaps someday it will."
11:34	mircea_popescu	i'll borrow the expression from taleb, since i just read it : this shit's not even wrong.
11:34	benkay	generalizing concepts. sounds like someone heard about 'general solutions' from someone else with a lil bit o programmery experience and decided it was important to do for their ideas as well.
11:35	benkay	"it's not enough that this is specifically stupid, i'm going to generalize this idiocy to the general case."
11:35	mircea_popescu	benkay that's exactly what happens. someone who was taught in primary school to "guess what words meran in context" instead of being beaten every time he failed to look up new words in the dictionary
11:35	FabianB	hmm.. Google can't find Jerusalina
11:35	mircea_popescu	grew up into an adult that proceeds on the basis of word recognition
11:36	mircea_popescu	that shit makes for excellent consumers and appaling "thinkers"
11:36	mircea_popescu	FabianB gotta admit it has a ring to it neh ?
11:36	bounce	I think the "jews make up a race according to western languages" premise mostly means the writer is still stuck in wwII-era propaganda.
11:37	mircea_popescu	bounce the part where early judaism was not tribal, but more akin to today's jehova witnesses is accurate
11:37	mircea_popescu	the middle part... that becomes complex
11:38	FabianB	mircea_popescu: does it exist or will it be built by you?
11:39	bounce	isn't it their creation story that groups them in various tribes, about 12 or so? though to call that a "race" is maybe a bit overly ambitious.
11:39	fluffypony	well jews in ancient israel were bound by a common belief, but it was also by birth
11:39	mircea_popescu	FabianB it's a play on how would a feminine jerusalem sound like
11:39	fluffypony	if you decided to follow the belief but you weren't born of the 12 tribes you weren't a jew
11:39	mircea_popescu	bounce we're talking actual history rather than orginal mythology tho
11:40	mircea_popescu	otherwise everyone was spawned by the fucking sun god.
11:40	bounce	what, you're saying their holy book can possibly be wrong? what malarky is this? :-p
11:40	mircea_popescu	lol
11:40	FabianB	mircea_popescu: hahaha, was already looking in argentinas pampas for tiny villages :)
11:40	fluffypony	bounce is right, though - they self-identified based on the son they were descended from
11:40	mircea_popescu	let me put it this way : once judaism became large enough they +m'd the channel.
11:41	bounce	this is true. you can get in, but it's not easy.
11:41	mircea_popescu	FabianB you know the expression, "next year in jerusalem". i just.. well... sexchanged it.
11:41	FabianB	hehe
11:41	mircea_popescu	but before it was large enough, there was no tribalism. most being... self made jooz.
11:41	bounce	better than islam, where getting in is relatively easy (just learn a book by rote and loud repetition), getting out... carries the death penalty. (literally)
11:42	mircea_popescu	islamob.
11:43	benkay	;;later tell DiabloD3 lisp > scala.
11:43	gribble	The operation succeeded.
11:43	bounce	curious tidbit: there's a reason it's the mother, not the father, that conveys jewishness to the kid. figuring out why should be just a bit of thought.
11:43	mircea_popescu	isn't this obvious ?
11:44	mircea_popescu	redheaded chicks named khannah' being the world's premiere sluts and all ?
11:44	bounce	not everyone notices and puts the puzzle together
11:44	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.065001 = 0.13 BTC [-]
11:44	mircea_popescu	he who does not puts ze puzzle together is known as... a putz.
11:44	fluffypony	oy vey
11:44	fluffypony	(sp?)
11:45	benkay	;;later tell BingoBoingo Where as Ruby was born with "lol, suck cocks" << it's more like "lol i suck cocks" but yeah right idea
11:45	gribble	The operation succeeded.
11:46	mircea_popescu	!up Anon29486307
11:46	assbot	Voicing Anon29486307 for 30 minutes.
11:51	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00100055 = 2.5014 BTC [+]
11:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.501 = 2.004 BTC [+]
11:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23398 @ 0.00099772 = 23.3447 BTC [-] {6}
11:56	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 550 @ 0.14 = 77 BTC
12:00	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.51669550 BTC to 6`985 shares, 36030 satoshi per share
12:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00099964 = 12.1956 BTC [+]
12:03	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00099964 = 4.5983 BTC [+]
12:06	mircea_popescu	!up Oleanie
12:06	assbot	Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.
12:08	Oleanie	hello
12:10	fluffypony	¡Ola!
12:13	benkay	good morning, Oleanie
12:21	thestringpuller	https://keybase.io/ - anyone know about this?
12:22	kakobrekla	;;google keybase.io site:http://log.bitcoin-assets.com
12:22	gribble	NEXT: 17-02-2014 - #bitcoin-assets log: <http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2014&bots=true>; PREV: 28-03-2014 - #bitcoin-assets log: <http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2014&bots=true>; NEXT: 01-03-2014 - #bitcoin-assets log: <http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2014&bots=true>
12:23	cgcardona_	top of tha mornin
12:23	benkay	thestringpuller: they want your private key. what else do you need to know?
12:23	thestringpuller	Wow kakobrekla I just learned something new
12:24	thestringpuller	hahahahahahahahahaha
12:24	thestringpuller	wow
12:24	thestringpuller	i love this channel
12:25	cgcardona_	fwiw I asked Manu Sporny (lead of the W3C Payments Working Group) what he thinks of bitcoin. Q: https://twitter.com/cgcardona/status/457225541284687872 A1: https://twitter.com/manusporny/status/458264859055247360 A2: https://twitter.com/manusporny/status/458265043860455424
12:26	benkay	cgcardona_: repeat that line to anyone seeking to 'bring bitcoin to the masses'
12:26	benkay	shit's not even worth 500 per.
12:26	benkay	;;ticker
12:26	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 498.4, Best ask: 498.72, Bid-ask spread: 0.32000, Last trade: 498.25, 24 hour volume: 8609.15956762, 24 hour low: 490.0, 24 hour high: 515.0, 24 hour vwap: 501.43322806
12:26	benkay	see? market agrees.
12:28	jurov	'cept for vwap
12:29	fluffypony	cgcardona_: I'm reading his name as Manus Porny from now on
12:30	benkay	enjoy the con, jurov?
12:31	mircea_popescu	;;ticker
12:31	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 498.02, Best ask: 498.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 498.02, 24 hour volume: 8569.74616032, 24 hour low: 490.0, 24 hour high: 515.0, 24 hour vwap: 501.43322806
12:32	mircea_popescu	!up fordlincoln
12:32	assbot	Voicing fordlincoln for 30 minutes.
12:33	cgcardona_	fluffypony: i figured that we all were :)
12:33	cgcardona_	actually i thought it might be M. Anus Porny
12:33	cgcardona_	</making fun of someone's name>
12:35	mircea_popescu	cgcardona_ well... gotta love people who say shit like "it's fundamentals"
12:36	cgcardona_	MP - yea I'm *never* surprised when the leader of a working group predicts something will 'take years'
12:39	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 55 @ 0.00580682 = 0.3194 BTC [+] {6}
12:39	jurov	..and sweat and bood and tears and bile and urine and...
12:39	jurov	*blood
12:39	cgcardona_	"There will be bood"
12:40	jurov	benkay yup... kinda "mini-con", though :D
12:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17336 @ 0.0009929 = 17.2129 BTC [-] {2}
12:40	cgcardona_	I still remember when Hixie was leader of the HTML5 working group and he said it was gonna take till 2019!
12:41	cgcardona_	actually he said 2022
12:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 13 @ 0.03038461 = 0.395 BTC [+] {3}
12:43	cgcardona_	I think that (with regards to the W3C) bitcoin's biggest lacking fundimental is that it's not a W3C tech.
12:44	benkay	best clubs are small clubs, jurov. i wonder what attendance will be like next year.
12:46	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.00599999 = 0.12 BTC [+] {2}
12:47	cgcardona_	;;rate mircea_popescu 1 Regular in (creator of?) #btc-assets
12:47	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mircea_popescu has been recorded.
12:47	fluffypony	cgcardona_: kakobrekla is the channel owner
12:47	fluffypony	founder
12:47	bounce	http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749597814000223
12:47	cgcardona_	ah ok - I'll uddate
12:47	mircea_popescu	yeah i'm just squatting here.
12:48	cgcardona_	;;rate mircea_popescu 1 Regular in #btc-assets and bitlord
12:48	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 1 to 1.
12:48	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla just so you know, bitlord is better than world's #1 dad.
12:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06458 = 0.3229 BTC [-] {5}
12:50	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6743 @ 0.00099584 = 6.7149 BTC [+]
12:50	cgcardona_	who is Anduck ? they gave me a -10 on the wot. wot a dick
12:50	cgcardona_	that gives me a -6 total. that sucks
12:52	mircea_popescu	;;seen Anduck
12:52	gribble	Anduck was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Anduck> :)
12:52	cgcardona_	;;gettrust Anduck
12:52	gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user cgcardona_ to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=cgcardona_&dest=Anduck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Anduck | Rated since: Tue May 8 11:28:43 2012
12:53	bounce	why don't you ask him? op on -otc. could be someone nicksquatted you and he was a little too enthousiastic
12:53	cgcardona_	ok
12:53	cgcardona_	don't see how someone nicksquatted me - i have it registered w/ nickserv
12:54	bounce	you don't have it set to enforce it, too
12:54	bounce	why didn't you get the nick without _ released and use that? you can still do that, by the by.
12:55	cgcardona_	you mean that I don't have nickserv set to enforce my nick registration?
12:55	fluffypony	nope
12:55	fluffypony	you need to /nickserv set enforce on
12:55	fluffypony	although WHY that isn't the default on Freenode is beyond me
12:55	cgcardona_	so someone has potentially be impersonating me on here?
12:55	cgcardona_	that's no good.
12:55	cgcardona_	i should check the logs.
12:55	bounce	because we're not all -otc lurkers, you know
12:56	fluffypony	http://otcdb.us.to/otc/?cgcardona_&&&&&
12:56	ozbot	OTC cgcardona_
12:57	cgcardona_	holy shit you're right
12:57	cgcardona_	someone joining btc-otc as me on 2014-04-20 07:34:38 CDT and 2014-04-20 07:34:24 CDT
12:57	fluffypony	adsl-74-177-71-233.gsp.bellsouth.net
12:57	cgcardona_	geez that's unbelievable
12:57	fluffypony	from there
12:57	fluffypony	yeah
12:57	cgcardona_	holy shit. fucking people.
12:58	fluffypony	looks like they scammed someone too
12:58	cgcardona_	so now that I have it set to enforce it will make someone enter my nickserv each time and if not kick them off of my nick?
12:59	*	bounce views nickserv as rather fascist already, nevermind nick enforcing. it's the thing to do on here, but, you know. can also argue that with only gribble it'd give more incentive to check with gribble first and foremost, and to accept no substitutes.
12:59	fluffypony	yes
12:59	fluffypony	well not kick them off, I think it forces a nick change to GuestXXXXX
12:59	cgcardona_	fluffypony: thanks for the help. that totally blows.
12:59	cgcardona_	but i guess its good that I found out now
12:59	fluffypony	yeah, Anduck will remove the negrating once you get hold of him
12:59	cgcardona_	hopefully i can work something out w/ Anduck to find out what happened.
13:00	kanzure	you can ghost kill someone squatting on your nick
13:00	fluffypony	kanzure: yes, but not if you're not online
13:00	bounce	not if you're not on, silly kanzure
13:00	fluffypony	heh
13:00	kanzure	does this mean i'm dreaming
13:01	fluffypony	kanzure: try ghosting yourself as a test :-P
13:02	cgcardona_	damn that totally sucks. sheesh
13:02	cgcardona_	gotta find the logs for btc-otc and see what the hell happened on those days.
13:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5098 BTC [+]
13:04	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/an-hero-is-he/
13:04	ozbot	An hero is he… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
13:04	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00013188 = 0.6594 BTC [-] {4}
13:07	mircea_popescu	meh it's not done.
13:07	mircea_popescu	redoing.
13:08	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.067127 = 0.2014 BTC [+] {2}
13:10	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.50085714 = 3.506 BTC [-] {2}
13:12	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1122 @ 0.00016989 = 0.1906 BTC [+] {6}
13:17	jurov	!up daybyter
13:17	assbot	Voicing daybyter for 30 minutes.
13:17	daybyter	Hi!
13:17	jurov	hello
13:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 600 @ 0.00018578 = 0.1115 BTC [+] {4}
13:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 531 @ 0.0001938 = 0.1029 BTC [+] {5}
13:21	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 2248 @ 0.00025253 = 0.5677 BTC [+] {5}
13:23	mircea_popescu	hey
13:24	mircea_popescu	!up turbo_ac1001
13:24	assbot	Voicing turbo_ac1001 for 30 minutes.
13:24	mircea_popescu	turbo_ac1001 you just commented on trilema ?
13:26	fluffypony	well now he's distracted reading Persion Folklore
13:29	mircea_popescu	lol
13:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 45 @ 0.0075 = 0.3375 BTC [+]
13:31	turbo_ac1001	I did
13:31	fluffypony	lol
13:32	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40900 @ 0.00099566 = 40.7225 BTC [-] {2}
13:33	mircea_popescu	MTGOX recovery imminent!
13:33	mircea_popescu	da fuck
13:33	mircea_popescu	!up turbo_ac100
13:33	assbot	Voicing turbo_ac100 for 30 minutes.
13:33	turbo_ac100	thanks
13:33	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: where'd ya see that?
13:33	thestringpuller	ah mircea_popescu returns
13:33	thestringpuller	rested i see from the exciting conference
13:33	mircea_popescu	you may be having a client issue because you got kicked by chanserv.
13:33	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller was great.
13:33	turbo_ac100	authed with gribble but assbot doesn't let me !up
13:33	mircea_popescu	fluffypony google drug it up, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAAOAo&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitcointa.lk%2Fthreads%2Fmtgox-recovery-imminent.262429%2Fpage-2&ei=lUNVU87oN8_y7AbTwIH4Ag&usg=AFQjCNGHHKEJtFolkPKq5bnZP0kHSJ_rRA&bvm=bv.65058239,d.ZGU
13:34	mircea_popescu	;;gettrust assbot turbo_ac100
13:34	gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user turbo_ac100: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=turbo_ac100 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=turbo_ac100 | Rated since: Thu Apr 3 11:09:50 2014
13:34	mircea_popescu	turbo_ac100 it should. pm it !up
13:34	turbo_ac100	trying again (i know right now I'm not authed). There is a flood message I'm gonna reproduce now
13:34	fluffypony	"Sure, but a new CEO would suffice to reestablish trust."
13:34	fluffypony	l.o.l.
13:34	mircea_popescu	i vote for danny.
13:35	fluffypony	underwritten by Ken Slaughter?
13:35	mircea_popescu	or shakaru
13:36	turbo_ac100	OF COURSE it works without the flood issues... *sigh*
13:36	mircea_popescu	herp
13:36	thestringpuller	;;ident
13:36	gribble	Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None
13:36	thestringpuller	man gribble hasn't gotten knocked for several days
13:36	turbo_ac100	The manticore still is a lion though.
13:37	mircea_popescu	;;google "with a vicious streak a mile wide"
13:37	gribble	Rabbit of Caerbannog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_of_Caerbannog>; Tim the Enchanter (Character) - Quotes - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0032565/quotes>; Faced With a Killer Rabbit - Monty Python Page: <http://montypython.50webs.com/scripts/Holy_Grail/Scene20.htm>
13:37	mircea_popescu	ye noob of little memeledge.
13:37	turbo_ac100	ooooh
13:38	mircea_popescu	"when mp is wrong, you've probably misunderstood or neglected something"
13:41	thestringpuller	when mp is wrong it's usually on something that doesn't matter
13:42	thestringpuller	or he knows when he's wrong and doesn't perpetuate it like da scammaz
13:42	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.49078984 = 4.4171 BTC [-] {7}
13:42	mircea_popescu	or he's just plain old wrong
13:42	thestringpuller	lolol
13:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 38 @ 0.00481 = 0.1828 BTC [-]
13:43	turbo_ac100	So why not the manticore then? #justargumentumecontrariothings
13:43	mircea_popescu	i dunno dood, she was wearing a corset so it kinda looked to me like a playboy bunny of yore
13:43	mircea_popescu	it's supposed to be a soft joke
13:45	thestringpuller	corsets are fancy tho
13:45	turbo_ac100	Romanian soft?
13:45	thestringpuller	lol
13:45	mircea_popescu	howssat ?
13:45	thestringpuller	mp doesn't go to many nerd conventions where the girls cosplay in steampunk with corsets galore
13:45	mircea_popescu	btw, i kinda have a bet with mpoe-pr as to who shows up here first, asciilifeform or thickasthieves.
13:45	mircea_popescu	anyone wanna take sides ?
13:45	thestringpuller	i dunno corsets are expensive, classy and sexy all at the sametime
13:46	thestringpuller	asciilifeform will be first
13:46	mircea_popescu	i think so too.
13:46	thestringpuller	did TaT go to MP-Con '14 ?
13:47	mircea_popescu	ya
13:47	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13811 @ 0.00099298 = 13.714 BTC [-] {2}
13:47	mircea_popescu	lol i wonder if there exists a secret underground ScamCon
13:47	bounce	yes?
13:48	mircea_popescu	where do they hold it ? little italy ? nigeria ?
13:48	bounce	well, not so secret. was another "discovery" from some security blogging company or other; buncha roossians had started their own coin
13:48	thestringpuller	LOL in nigeria...
13:50	fluffypony	turbo_ac100: maybe we can get #justmanticorethings trending?
13:50	bounce	what was that picture again, of some narco guy's mansion with on the order of 18bn in usd and assorted further currencies in various places, down to simply stacked in a room. one'd think that's enough to buy an underground bunker to store the stuff.
13:52	bounce	oh, apparently misremembered, only 207mn usd. still, what's an underground bunker or two cost these days?
13:52	*	bounce wonders where the 18bn figure came from.
13:52	mircea_popescu	bounce 18bn in usd is something like
13:52	mircea_popescu	;;calc 22 * 18000
13:52	gribble	396000
13:53	mircea_popescu	4mn lbs.
13:53	bounce	lbs? what are you, a merkin?
13:53	mircea_popescu	fine, 2k tons
13:54	turbo_ac100	fluffypony: will try :)
13:54	bounce	or about 2 gigagram. give or take.
13:55	bounce	https://imgur.com/a/DYU2e says it's 22bn
13:55	ozbot	Mexican Drug Lord home after being raided - Imgur
13:57	mircea_popescu	bs
13:57	mircea_popescu	that's not "billionz"
13:57	fluffypony	there's no way
13:57	fluffypony	that is 22bn
13:58	mircea_popescu	10 x 34 on the surface, like 60 or so deep
13:58	mircea_popescu	;;calc 10 * 34 * 60000
13:58	gribble	20400000
13:58	mircea_popescu	like 200ish mn there.
13:59	fluffypony	207 mil to be exact
13:59	fluffypony	nicely calculated
13:59	fluffypony	http://www.businessinsider.com/zhenli-ye-gon-causes-trouble-for-las-vegas-sands-2012-8
13:59	ozbot	Zhenli Ye Gon Causes Trouble For Las Vegas Sands - Business Insider
13:59	fluffypony	"A raid of his home in the wealthy neighborhood of Mexico City produced what police described as "the largest single drug cash seizure the world has ever seen." Almost $207 million sat in the house in cash. Seven high-powered firearms were also in the house, the New York Times reported."
14:00	bounce	apt, though. consider what happens to reported prices, the so called "street value"
14:00	fluffypony	also the third picture is an actual museum
14:00	fluffypony	http://internacional.elpais.com/internacional/2013/06/18/album/1371516659_231755.html#1371516659_231755_1371517565
14:00	fluffypony	so that's just embellishment
14:02	fluffypony	also that bit at the end is way wrong
14:02	bounce	curiously, a load of stolen garlic got recovered (border agents smelled something), and the value reported sounded like they used wholesale prices, not "supermarket prices".
14:02	fluffypony	"$22 billion/[(310 million people)(12 years)(~$5,000/person/year)]=0.0012. $22 billion would meet about 0.12% of the health insurance costs for 12 years. Actual cost would be $18.6 trillion. Health insurance would have to cost $5.91 per person per year for $22 billion to cover everyone for 12 years."
14:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4132 @ 0.00099584 = 4.1148 BTC [+]
14:03	mircea_popescu	shit mpoe-pr wins
14:03	mircea_popescu	!up Shakespeare
14:03	assbot	Voicing Shakespeare for 30 minutes.
14:03	Shakespeare	I signed on just to beat stan
14:03	mircea_popescu	ahahaha
14:03	Shakespeare	I'm in NJ airport :)
14:03	mircea_popescu	lmao
14:03	mircea_popescu	nj has an airport ?!
14:03	Shakespeare	surprised me too
14:04	Shakespeare	it has a retarded ticker too
14:04	Shakespeare	ear
14:04	Shakespeare	ewr
14:04	Shakespeare	for Newark
14:04	mircea_popescu	hello sir, here are your ear-wax tickets
14:04	Shakespeare	ewr not ear though
14:05	Shakespeare	just my tablet autocorrect...
14:05	mircea_popescu	!up _aeon
14:05	assbot	Voicing _aeon for 30 minutes.
14:05	Shakespeare	so for 9 hours over the ocean guess who I get seated with
14:05	mircea_popescu	this bombshell redhead
14:06	Shakespeare	poor young tourettes girl
14:06	mircea_popescu	no fucking way ?!
14:06	Shakespeare	barking and such
14:06	Shakespeare	yeah
14:06	mircea_popescu	i never met anyone with actual tourettes.
14:06	Shakespeare	it didn't bother me other than sadden me
14:07	Shakespeare	she was embarrassed when it got bad, putting blanket over her face
14:08	Duffer1	poor kid
14:08	fluffypony	shame man
14:10	mircea_popescu	o look who's here. quick someone call teh bitcoin police
14:10	davout	:D
14:10	mircea_popescu	Shakespeare i still have trouble wrapping my head around the notion.
14:11	mircea_popescu	i mean, i don't actually think that w/e, they're faking it. but it just fails to compute on the intuitive level.
14:11	davout	i found france
14:11	Shakespeare	for the record, davout lost at least 1.5 games
14:11	davout	Shakespeare: i beg your pardon
14:11	Shakespeare	its true!
14:12	Shakespeare	remember the rules argument?
14:12	mircea_popescu	what sort of scam french invincibility is this
14:12	Shakespeare	and then later me and someone else won for deals
14:12	Shakespeare	realz
14:12	davout	Shakespeare: i'm not sure i follow
14:12	Shakespeare	that's OK
14:13	Shakespeare	this is tat btw
14:13	davout	mircea_popescu: i wish to apologize for my rudeness in marking my territory in timisoara repeatedly
14:14	mircea_popescu	lol
14:14	davout	Shakespeare: was your trip back ok ?
14:14	Shakespeare	meh
14:14	Shakespeare	see logs
14:14	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 150 @ 0.00461215 = 0.6918 BTC [-] {10}
14:14	Shakespeare	I still in NJ too
14:15	Shakespeare	I had to go thru security 3 times once I got to US
14:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00099058 = 13.3728 BTC [-] {3}
14:15	Shakespeare	and check my bags all over again
14:16	Shakespeare	good times
14:16	Shakespeare	I did get to hang with ASCII at two airports though
14:16	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 58 @ 0.00220865 = 0.1281 BTC [-] {9}
14:16	davout	!up Oleanie
14:16	assbot	Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.
14:17	davout	Shakespeare: gotta love the cavity searches
14:17	davout	ftr Oleanie == Fanny
14:18	Shakespeare	ah cool
14:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 28 @ 0.04488566 = 1.2568 BTC [+] {4}
14:19	davout	mircea_popescu: the rosé is very nice
14:19	Shakespeare	customs let me keep my champagne btw
14:19	mircea_popescu	;;rate Oleanie 1 She rides.
14:19	gribble	Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
14:19	davout	Shakespeare: cabin luggage ?
14:19	mircea_popescu	davout nao you tell her how to gpg yes ?
14:19	davout	mircea_popescu: imma explain it all to her a bit later
14:20	Shakespeare	I wrapped it in my clothesline my checked baggage
14:20	Oleanie	we are drinking ours
14:20	mircea_popescu	!b 2
14:20	assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1789955/plain/)
14:20	Shakespeare	lol not clothesline
14:20	mircea_popescu	clothesline srsly ?
14:20	Shakespeare	autocorrect...
14:20	davout	Shakespeare: that's the only way you can get it through
14:20	mircea_popescu	davout after you drink it i'll tell you what it cost.
14:21	davout	mircea_popescu: it has been drinked
14:21	davout	drank/drunk, what is the correct one ?
14:21	mircea_popescu	Shakespeare it's hysterical because well... wine fermented in the bottle can well explode.
14:22	davout	mircea_popescu: Oleanie still has some in her glass
14:22	mircea_popescu	but they won't let you take i dunno, lotion. i nevere heard of lotion exploding
14:22	Shakespeare	ASCII gave your cabbie a bunch $20 bills this morning. I couldn't tell which of them enjoyed it more
14:22	mircea_popescu	davout drunk
14:22	mircea_popescu	Shakespeare haha
14:22	mircea_popescu	guy definitely enjoys a lot of stuff huh.
14:23	davout	Shakespeare mircea_popescu our cab driver started the ride by yelling "Shumacher shumacher!"
14:23	mircea_popescu	lmao
14:23	mircea_popescu	davout was like... hey, i know you set it up for us to be there in time, but could you cancel it so we go on foot 7 1/2 hours later ?
14:23	mircea_popescu	we're from france and so we like to wait uncomfortably in airports
14:23	mircea_popescu	it's like... when you come out from under sea, you gotta re-aclimatize to the suck.
14:24	mircea_popescu	7 1/2 hours earlier i mean.
14:24	jurov	lmao my cabbie (when i got lost a bit on arrival) refused to accept 10 euro bill
14:24	jurov	eventually he gave me change in lei
14:24	davout	mircea_popescu: naaah, we met mike_c there
14:25	mircea_popescu	o dude.
14:25	davout	we were just 30 min early
14:25	davout	i really hate being in a rush
14:25	mircea_popescu	mike_c threw me for a fucking loop. cause afaik he was leaving tomorrow, right ? so i had secretary call hotel front desk to sert up lunch, cause i figured... we can do lunch
14:25	mircea_popescu	she calls me in a total panic, cause well... he's gone ?! and she suspects the idiot receptionist kicked him out maybne ?
14:25	davout	LOL
14:25	Shakespeare	lol
14:26	mircea_popescu	so you know, i go there like a fucking ride of valkiries screaming all the way from like outside, WHO DUN IT!
14:26	Shakespeare	he had some trouble with the time zones :)
14:26	mircea_popescu	the girl, bring me the girl
14:26	mircea_popescu	so they fetch her and she's completely dumbfounded... guy came, witgh his bags, checked out and left. how is she to know he's not to be allowed to leave ?!
14:27	mircea_popescu	but eventually they checked the airline and he was there so. disaster averte
14:27	mircea_popescu	d
14:27	Shakespeare	dude a pigeon just flew by me
14:27	Shakespeare	in the airport
14:27	mircea_popescu	did it whistle correctly ?
14:27	Shakespeare	fucking NJ
14:27	Shakespeare	it was silent
14:28	fluffypony	like a bat?
14:28	mircea_popescu	bats aren't silent
14:28	mircea_popescu	i can fucking hear them.
14:28	fluffypony	thatsthejoke.gif
14:28	Shakespeare	like a silent dove but not
14:28	mircea_popescu	nojokesallowed.pdf
14:28	fluffypony	didyougpgencryptthat.questionmark
14:29	mircea_popescu	yes, which is why its spelled questionlark
14:29	Shakespeare	karpelesceosuite.exe
14:29	fluffypony	Shakespeare: wouldn't it be .php3 ?
14:29	mircea_popescu	it would be ===php4
14:29	Shakespeare	no cuz its a scam
14:29	davout	fluffypony: you'd click it in doubt, and that's the whole point :-)
14:30	Shakespeare	csstml 5
14:30	fluffypony	lawl
14:30	fluffypony	node.js!
14:30	mircea_popescu	i gotta get taleb to write about bitcoin.
14:30	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2000 @ 0.00013091 = 0.2618 BTC [-]
14:31	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.02951683 = 0.7379 BTC [-] {8}
14:31	mircea_popescu	quoting for stan's own pleasure :
14:31	mircea_popescu	I would like to record here (so people get off my back) that I do not belong to the so-called "Austrian School" of economics, in spite of a few similar positions on bailouts and bottom-up systems. I believe in mathematical statements. But if I were to belong to a school of thought designated by a nationality, the {NATIONALITY} SCHOOL of {DISCIPLINE} it would be the Russian school of probability.
14:31	mircea_popescu	Members across three generations: P.L. Chebyshev, A.A. Markov, A.M. Lyapunov, S.N. Bernshtein (ie. Bernstein), E.E. Slutskii, N.V. Smirnov, L.N. Bol'shev, V.I. Romanovskii, A.N. Kolmogorov,Yu.V. Linnik, and the new generation: V Petrov, S.V. Nagaev, A.V. Nagaev, A. Shyrayev, etc.
14:31	davout	mircea_popescu: he's already tweeted stuff iirc
14:31	mircea_popescu	davout i mean specifically. or to quote again,
14:32	mircea_popescu	"Margo I have lived in the theatre as a Trappist monk lives in his faith"
14:32	fluffypony	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23l56v/qr_codes_are_dead/
14:32	ozbot	QR codes are dead : Bitcoin
14:32	mircea_popescu	"I have no other world, no other life."
14:32	fluffypony	so apparently the way we *should* be using Bitcoin
14:32	fluffypony	is through Bluetooth LE
14:32	fluffypony	and we'll just keep our phones in our pocket
14:32	fluffypony	and walk up to the counter
14:33	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.02913635 = 0.3205 BTC [-] {5}
14:33	mircea_popescu	" QR codes have been around and hyped for years, but they were never used as much as developers and marketing people hoped." << truth.
14:33	fluffypony	and the cashier will say "PayPal or Bitcoin, sir?"
14:33	fluffypony	and we'll say "Bitcoin"
14:33	fluffypony	and the money will just magically come off without us needing to authorise it
14:33	mircea_popescu	here's a funny story : bar where we watered saturday night, had an advertising above the urinal. on that advertising, aqr code.
14:33	mircea_popescu	it was unreadable, because the frame covered it.
14:33	fluffypony	"No ugly smartphone unlocking, app starting, camera pointing at a fancy QR code. No, all handsfree, how it needs to work."
14:34	cgcardona_	i actually think bitcoin is QR code's killer app
14:34	mircea_popescu	!up Shakespeare
14:34	assbot	Voicing Shakespeare for 30 minutes.
14:34	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: besides, who's sober enough to scan a QR code?
14:34	mircea_popescu	fluffypony ikr ?
14:34	davout	mircea_popescu: right hand is for the dick, left for the smartphone
14:34	mircea_popescu	cgcardona_ could be, but somehow i doubt it.
14:34	mircea_popescu	!up JoshG
14:34	assbot	Voicing JoshG for 30 minutes.
14:34	mircea_popescu	davout and the balls ?!
14:34	davout	mircea_popescu: teh girl
14:35	cgcardona_	also, my 5 year old son is obsessed w/ qr codes. He askes me to scan everyone that we see (yes this could backfire one day). I think people of his generation will find QR codes quite intuitive
14:35	mircea_popescu	"my prediction is". da fguck is this shit, "cluster4" is now making "my prediction" ?
14:35	davout	nah, in all seriousness, i don't know about you, but i don't piss with my balls
14:35	mircea_popescu	people have a lot of difficulty groking that if you're anonymous... there is no property.
14:35	mircea_popescu	there's no "my" in anonimity.
14:35	mircea_popescu	davout no idea how you can piss with teh girl handling your balls.
14:35	davout	mircea_popescu: being anonymous doesn't mean there is no idnentity
14:36	davout	mircea_popescu: years of training
14:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 25 @ 0.00600001 = 0.15 BTC [+]
14:36	mircea_popescu	davout ne confondre pas anonimite e pseudonimite, i say!
14:36	davout	anonymous, absence of name, not of identity
14:36	mircea_popescu	anonymous is absence of identity.
14:36	mircea_popescu	like, joe schmuck on reddit. is not a person.
14:36	mircea_popescu	it's not even a thing. it's gas.
14:37	mircea_popescu	"as it's use is very limited"
14:38	davout	mircea_popescu: i'd say fungibility is the absence of identity, anonymity is the absence of name, but i'm too tipsy on that delicious rosé champagne to even imagine arguing the point properly
14:38	mircea_popescu	stupid enough to not realise he can't have a "my" as nobody, clueless enough to fail to distinguish a verb from a possessive. this is reddit.
14:38	mircea_popescu	davout so argue it tomorrow.
14:40	mircea_popescu	curious to see how you'll argue cluster4 is not fungible with cluster3 or derpymcherp or w/e.
14:41	mircea_popescu	this entire shit is backwards. views, which are not fungible, people pretend are in fact fungible. then anons, which are absolutely fungible, people pretend like are not. apparently the web is quite counterintuitive.
14:43	davout	mircea_popescu: derps might be fungible as anonymous entities, entities we couldn't care to name, it doesn't really impede their ability to each own a bitcent
14:43	davout	brb
14:45	mircea_popescu	but that's irrelevant for this discussion innit.
14:45	mircea_popescu	the opinion of derp1 is exactly equal to the opinion of derp2 inasmuch as we don't know anything about 'em.
14:46	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18993 @ 0.00099071 = 18.8166 BTC [+] {2}
14:52	davout	mircea_popescu: yes, but fungibility and anonymity lie in the observer, property lies with the things themselves
14:52	bounce	yeah, no. with davout on this one, "anonymity" is lack of a label, not necessarily lack of an underlying identity. on the flip side, you already know what jehova's witnesses will try and tell you without you needing their name, regardless of whether they offer their name. if they do, they're no longer anonymous. it doesn't affect your esteem for what they're trying to tell you.
14:52	mircea_popescu	http://www.lambiek.net/artists/image/m/mas_r/mas_pifou_pg6904.jpg
14:52	mircea_popescu	davout the fact that the person "deep down" "twu wuvs" you is immaterial.
14:53	mircea_popescu	for all you know pet rocks have distinct personalities.
14:53	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: looks like I lost the bet
14:53	mircea_popescu	aye.
14:53	thestringpuller	:(
14:53	mircea_popescu	bounce anon jehova's witnesses are not people.
14:54	mircea_popescu	to personalize they need to de-jehova-witnessize for you, before you.
14:54	davout	derp1 and derp2 might be fungible from our pov, but derp1 can still own 1 btc while derp2 owns 2
14:54	mircea_popescu	so ?
14:54	bounce	not to you. inside their own circles their worth is measured by their zeal.
14:54	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: there's an H on end
14:54	mircea_popescu	but what happens inside the pet rock is uninteresting in this discussion.
14:54	mircea_popescu	fluffypony yeah k.
14:55	davout	mircea_popescu: it is, because knowledge of different informations translates directly to ownership, or non-ownership of bitcoins for example
14:55	mircea_popescu	unless and untill this becomes transpared to you it is immaterial.
14:55	mircea_popescu	after it becomes transparent to you, it already broke that anonimity.
14:56	bounce	soldiers are cannon fodder to you, individuals to themselves and their bosses. look, they even wear name tags.
14:56	mircea_popescu	but what they are, for as long as they DON
14:56	thestringpuller	;;seen mod6
14:56	gribble	mod6 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <mod6> $vwap s.mpoe
14:56	mircea_popescu	T wear dogtags, is fungible gas.
14:57	mircea_popescu	"A 43-year-old programmer who helped set in motion a class-action lawsuit against the companies and became one of its five class representatives will not be present in the San Jose courtroom. He was shot and killed by the police last December."
14:58	mircea_popescu	funny how accidents work.
14:58	bounce	very funny indeed
14:58	davout	i don't think that my ability to distinguish derps is really related to their ability to own stuff, it is not necessary for me to be able to know they are able to destroy a bitcoin for them to actually be able to destroy a bitcoin
14:59	mircea_popescu	davout your ability to distinguish derps is however central to their ability to exist.
14:59	mircea_popescu	you can be bios, but you can not be zoon unrecognised.
15:00	mircea_popescu	so yes, animals they can be. people however, they can not be, unless recognised.
15:00	bounce	there's this conflation of "person" to mean "someone who matters (to me)", which is highly viewpoint-dependent. your basic definition appears to be "someone who matters in the bitcoin sphere and can be trusted not to fsck up (too badly)". might need a suitable word for that.
15:00	mircea_popescu	bounce it merely means "someone who can be distinguished from the others"
15:01	davout	what you're saying is pretty much that derps exist in a quantum superposition of owning, and not-owning stuff, and that their actual ownership resolves when i actually observe, aka measure them
15:01	mircea_popescu	which reduces to "someone who could, in principle, matter"
15:01	davout	right?
15:01	mircea_popescu	because the undistinguishable can't ever matter, by definition.
15:01	mircea_popescu	davout pretty good approach yeah
15:01	mircea_popescu	speaking of "different" derps is like speaking of photons as billiard balls.
15:02	davout	that is true if you consider that everything that matters is only what you have knowledge of
15:02	mircea_popescu	perhaps an excusable approximation in some narrow cases, but wrong in principle.
15:02	mircea_popescu	davout everythint that matters is only what COULD BE HAD knowledge of.
15:02	bounce	``In ancient Rome, the word "persona" (Latin) or "prosopon" ([...]: Greek) originally referred to the masks worn by actors on stage.'' --wikipedia
15:02	mircea_popescu	bounce fun fact... that yielded romanian prosop, which means... towel.
15:02	bounce	those come in handy hitchhiking
15:04	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0671117 = 0.6711 BTC [-] {5}
15:04	bounce	anyway that doesn't help much, since "distinguishing from the others" implies a yardstick, that in turn is a choice bound by context
15:05	mircea_popescu	not so.
15:05	mircea_popescu	yardstick is a matter of measuring, and thus relegated to quantitative discussions. we're discussing qualitative matters here.
15:06	bounce	we're measuring the quality. when is someone a person? whether the scale is actually countable is immaterial.
15:06	bounce	s/is countable/has countable subdivisions/
15:06	mircea_popescu	nah.
15:07	bounce	you still end up with two ends of a stick. "person", "not a person"
15:07	mircea_popescu	how are these ends of a stick ? there's no continuum
15:09	bounce	or sides. you can discern both states, even if the distance between them is infinitesmal and only exists as an idea to boot
15:09	bounce	when's the liquour strong enough? well, if it's over $strength. something like that.
15:10	mircea_popescu	let's try a different tack. you know what a cog is. you also know what a sphere is.
15:10	mircea_popescu	good anonimity, just like good sphericity, relies on not being a cog. at all.
15:10	mircea_popescu	conversely, good cogicity, just like good personhood, relies on not being a sphere. at all.
15:11	davout	bounce: the way i understand the argument is that ownership is akin to the state of an electron, until you observe it exists in a superposition of states, it can only have a state when you observe it
15:11	mircea_popescu	now, this does not reduce to "liquor being strong ENOUGH"
15:11	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 19 @ 0.02838964 = 0.5394 BTC [-] {10}
15:11	mircea_popescu	it reduces to being liquour or oil.
15:11	mircea_popescu	good oil is not alcohol. good alcohol is not oil.
15:12	davout	speaking of which i'm on way to pop the second bottle, please disregard all my further comments
15:12	mircea_popescu	there's no serious consideration of an oil-alcohol mixture being "storng enough", as you won't drink vodka-canoia oil cocktails
15:13	bounce	disagree. it'd mean that the only good person be a totally non-anonymous person, so, real personhood is only open to, say, obama. or dubya.
15:13	mircea_popescu	bounce actually, misplaced shards of anonimity ruin personhood. which is why i keep having to ask derps posing as ceos here "who's we".
15:14	mircea_popescu	conversely, misplaced shards of personhood ruin anonimity. such as w/e, silk road guy.
15:19	mircea_popescu	"Now academics learn to take a paper or a class of papers, imitate the style, the organization; copy the phraseology, discuss the historical literature and find some wrinkle on the problem that makes it look like a contribution. This is what tends to be published, and this is what seems to be "original". And these works never survive the author."
15:19	mircea_popescu	because someone somewhere in a bureaucracy figured it's a good idea to fucking industrialise research.
15:19	mircea_popescu	may he never rest.
15:20	bounce	guy posing as "CEO" claiming to have lots of minions needs a good team. since claim made, up to him to back it up. that's not quite the same as requiring to know his every move or his every thought.
15:21	bounce	s/back it up/&, show he has such a team/ etc. bit forgetful with the details today
15:21	mircea_popescu	nobody requires to know his every move or thought in any sense.
15:21	bounce	that's be implied through "total non-anonymity" though
15:21	mircea_popescu	only iyo.
15:21	bounce	no. hence the conflation.
15:22	mircea_popescu	the criteria is good wot relations, not "knowing their every thought"
15:22	bounce	I'm not disagreeing with what you're trying to say, just that the terminology could stand improvement.
15:22	mircea_popescu	the devil himself knows not the thought of man
		↖
15:23	bounce	(yet god knows every thought of the devil's, and being a good little god... lets him be?)
15:23	mircea_popescu	if god actually knew every thought of the devil, he'd have not been surprised.
15:23	mircea_popescu	god'd like to. but tis impossible, inasmuch as the devil is human, and god is not that good.
15:23	bounce	you're saying the poor devil is unoriginal?
15:23	mircea_popescu	i am saying that the poor god is incapable.
15:24	bounce	oh well. AIUI paradise lost would beg to differ. haven't gotten around to actually reading the thing.
15:25	mircea_popescu	how's it differ ?
15:25	bounce	anyway, "good wot relations" means that you've met and dealt with a number of other people, and gathered their esteem, and in doing so gathered a total esteem enough to be deemed worthy of the community as a whole.
15:26	bounce	"liqour strong enough" if you will
15:26	mircea_popescu	understanding rather than esteem. the people you've dealt with are marks you may be recognised by.
15:26	mircea_popescu	in no sense is this a numeric problem,
15:26	mircea_popescu	which is why no numeric methods work for this task.
15:27	bounce	and every user has a differend yardstick, making the whole thing subjective to use.
15:27	mircea_popescu	two hours ago i said i suspect i'm weeks away from a major breakthrough in economics.
15:27	mircea_popescu	i think this discussion shaved a week off.
15:27	mircea_popescu	bounce im not sure you have a usable definition of subjective in mind.
15:27	bounce	also more or less saved me having to do a write-up
15:27	mircea_popescu	if it's the kneejerk "not usg diddled" then might as well discard it.
15:30	bounce	"subjective" as every user of the wot looking to form an opinion on some other user of the wot does so as he deems good, mayhaps taking into account that raters will also use their own criteria to rate with.
15:30	bounce	s/as /as in /
15:30	mircea_popescu	so inasmuch as good is done, this is optimal not subjective.
15:31	mircea_popescu	if he looked to do what he felt like it could have been subjective, as a proxy for aesthetic i guess.
15:32	bounce	what I mean is that even if the outcome is roughly the same for different onlookers, their conclusions are (supposedly) their own; like how you notice that there's no intl. standard of interpreting ratings. nor should there be.
15:33	mircea_popescu	which is ultimately why no numerical approach.
15:33	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.03099869 = 0.186 BTC [+] {5}
15:33	bounce	you could still try and throw statistics at it, but that doesn't change the underlying subjectivity
15:33	mircea_popescu	are you using "subjectivity" merely to note the fact that the numeric method does not apply ?
15:35	bounce	hmno.
15:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.063133 = 1.2627 BTC [-] {10}
15:38	bounce	WOT ratings can well mean different things to you and me. they're not even ment to be used "objectively", ie in a manner independent of people's opinions.
15:39	mircea_popescu	give me an example of such an objectively.
15:40	bounce	an objective measure? a metre, standard the world over.
15:40	mircea_popescu	enacted by ?
15:40	mircea_popescu	worst possible fucking example.
15:42	bounce	whether I take a tape measure to $derp or you do it, when done correctly we both will conclude the guy's length to be $whatever. that'd be objective. we both look at his WOT ratings, we might well draw different conclusions on the same data.
15:43	bounce	we could devise a "standard" scoring test for WOT ratings and still draw differing conclusions based on what we see
15:43	mircea_popescu	this is more akin to you using inches and me using cm.
15:43	mircea_popescu	both of these "objectively" examples you provide strictly adhere to your definition of subjectivity,
15:43	mircea_popescu	they exist as a result of people's opinions.
15:44	bounce	er? I gave one objective and one subjective example?
15:45	mircea_popescu	<bounce> an objective measure? a metre, standard the world over. < 1 ; <bounce> whether I take a tape measure to $derp or you do it, when done correctly we both will conclude the guy's length to be $whatever. < 2
15:45	mircea_popescu	your "done corectly" is there precisely because you too know this :
15:45	mircea_popescu	god help us if our opinions of these subjectives do not agree.
15:46	bounce	both're objective; I don't need a judgement call here, I look at the tape measure.
15:47	mircea_popescu	but you need a judgement call for the tape measure to exist in the first place.
15:48	mircea_popescu	you seem to be roughly in the position of the slave who says his master's will is divine in nature, because it's outside of his reach.
15:48	bounce	eh, I think we're past that. I can put three lava lamps on a table and count them. you'll count three too. no feels or beliefs involved. even if our counting system is ultimately arbitrary in it existence
15:48	mircea_popescu	while outside of his reach it may well be, his master's just another guy.
15:48	mircea_popescu	so numbers are your standard of objectivity, but then when i ask you <mircea_popescu> are you using "subjectivity" merely to note the fact that the numeric method does not apply ? you say no.
15:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 50 @ 0.00600001 = 0.3 BTC [+]
15:50	bounce	well, what is "the numeric method"? I can devise and use a system of numeric scales based on how much I feel I know about someone else.
15:50	bounce	the end result to that would still be subjective. someone else might well feel a different way.
15:53	davout	meanwhile, in timisoara : http://i.imgur.com/kBnMktn.jpg
		↖
15:55	mircea_popescu	lol
15:56	davout	!up Oleanie
15:56	assbot	Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.
15:56	Oleanie	i love this one ^^
15:56	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.0009891 = 8.259 BTC [-] {3}
15:57	mircea_popescu	hello kitty
15:57	bounce	curious how that thing is such a stayer. as an antidote: http://web.archive.org/web/20010221014629/http://www.gci-net.com/users/w/wildeman/Sanrio.txt
15:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.066108 = 0.6611 BTC [+] {2}
15:59	mircea_popescu	!up lamosty
15:59	assbot	Voicing lamosty for 30 minutes.
16:01	davout	bounce: stopped after chapter one
16:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35050 @ 0.00099321 = 34.812 BTC [+] {3}
		~ 18 minutes ~
16:20	mircea_popescu	mkay, so i'm writing a seminal, major and epic work called "a complete theory of economics".
16:20	mircea_popescu	sadly this has to start by my translating three older romanian articles, but c'est la vie.
16:21	bounce	so, google translate work better straight to english or via french or/and latin first?
16:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00099521 = 15.2267 BTC [+]
16:24	mircea_popescu	it doesn't work at sall unless you're after humor.
16:35	jborkl	hehe you said semen
16:36	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13502 @ 0.00099521 = 13.4373 BTC [+] {2}
16:38	fluffypony	jborkl: semen-all
16:38	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00099707 = 8.6247 BTC [+]
16:38	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I dunno why the dude reverts to assuming personal attacks other than maybe the one sided blindess impressed upon the legal profession.
16:46	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.0009945 = 7.1604 BTC [-] {2}
16:49	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: when do we get _Trilema: The Book_
16:52	fluffypony	http://imgur.com/a/NEHRT
16:52	ozbot	13 Hilarious and Sexist Dating Tips From 1938. - Imgur
16:52	fluffypony	oh the 30s
16:56	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4720 @ 0.00099439 = 4.6935 BTC [-]
16:57	mircea_popescu	rithm lol
16:57	mircea_popescu	wait wut! cheating of voice!
16:57	mircea_popescu	lol
16:57	mircea_popescu	!up rithm
16:57	assbot	Voicing rithm for 30 minutes.
16:58	rithm	be vewwwwy kwiet. im hunting wabbits
16:58	rithm	but this though: http://imgur.com/VTBX0dg
17:01	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8973 @ 0.00099425 = 8.9214 BTC [-]
17:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49000005 = 0.98 BTC [-] {2}
17:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5791 @ 0.00098861 = 5.725 BTC [-]
17:09	cgcardona_	;;rate danielpbarron 1 #bitcoin-assets regular and defended me when a scammer squatted on my nick in #bitcoin-otc
17:09	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user danielpbarron has changed from 1 to 1.
17:09	cgcardona_	thanks btw ^
17:09	artifexd	cgcardona_: I wouldn't worry about total wot rating since it is a meaningless number.
17:10	artifexd	Sometimes a negative rating would be a good thing depending on who it came from.
17:10	fluffypony	like from Supa
17:10	artifexd	Imagine you had a negative rating from mtgox with the comment "TROLL!!!!!!"
17:10	cgcardona_	haha.
17:10	artifexd	I would see such a rating as reflecting positively on the ratee.
17:10	cgcardona_	interesting way to look at it.
17:13	rithm	i'd almost pay for a negrate from mgicaltux
17:13	rithm	*magicaltux
17:14	rithm	negrate from a scammer is a badge of honor
17:14	artifexd	Exactly. So you can't just look at the sum of the ratings and learn anything useful.
17:15	artifexd	Does anyone know of any wot visualization tools? I imagine something like bubbles with names and the lines connecting those bubbles are colored/weighted according to the rating.
17:15	bounce	sure you can. "person has been rated N times, some positive, some negative." -- negative ratings might well be the more interesting to read.
17:16	artifexd	When I said "look at the sum", I meant look at the single number which is the sum of all ratings.
17:17	bounce	the fact that it exists at all is an interesting datum, inasmuch it doesn't say "not rated yet"
17:18	bounce	if it's well over 10 or -10 that's a clear indication it wasn't by just one rating either
17:18	artifexd	I would argue that the fact that it exists at all encourages the improper use of the wot.
17:18	bounce	no railroading powertools
17:27	mircea_popescu	artifexd actually the controlling example is... anduck himself has a total negaitve
17:27	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 57 @ 0.06269212 = 3.5735 BTC [-] {5}
17:28	mircea_popescu	also :
17:28	mircea_popescu	;;gettrust artifexd
17:28	gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask artifexd!sid28611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zasykpxnqiqgtbip. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user artifexd: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=artifexd | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=artifexd | Rated since: Wed Mar 5 02:06:14 2014
17:28	mircea_popescu	first one.
17:28	mircea_popescu	!up rithm
17:28	assbot	Voicing rithm for 30 minutes.
17:29	rithm	why must we voice me
17:29	rithm	the bot is dumb
17:29	artifexd	mircea_popescu: When asking about the visual tool, I meant for the whole wot. Specifically to identify islands, groups, etc.
17:29	mircea_popescu	dexX7 published one recently iirc.
		↖
17:29	mircea_popescu	rithm because you have no wot.
17:29	rithm	can't someone just run a normal eggdrop bot and auto voice people
17:29	kakobrekla	rithm up yourself on pm
17:29	rithm	gaH
17:30	kakobrekla	or that.
17:30	rithm	BUT I HAVE TO CHANGE NICKS FOR THAT
17:30	rithm	and my caps getsd stuck
17:30	mircea_popescu	so stop sucking
17:30	kakobrekla	i think not anymore
17:30	rithm	lemme try
17:31	artifexd	Interestingly, wrt anduck, he has a total of -69. There are 7 -10 ratings that are CLEARLY from the same person.
17:32	rithm	b-o-r-i-n-g
17:32	rithm	;;ident
17:32	gribble	CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'rithm', with hostmask 'rithm!~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm', is identified as user 'jcpham', with GPG key id C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, key fingerprint F7299BD73879E866613EAB24C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, and bitcoin address 157CrafPv8oGC7f5vVFuLnE1BgDYUND4hq
17:32	rithm	;;unauth
17:32	gribble	Your GPG session has been terminated.
17:32	artifexd	dexX7: Did you visualize the entire wot?
17:32	dexX7	no :)
17:33	dexX7	only the assbot/#ba users
17:33	artifexd	But... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-04-2014#633726
17:33	artifexd	Ah
17:33	dexX7	sec
17:34	dexX7	http://i.imgur.com/xfGIozu.png
17:34	rithm	omg gold titans
17:34	rithm	incoming supposedly
17:34	dexX7	bounce posted a list of all users who may be voiced here
17:34	rithm	much excite
17:35	dexX7	the tool used was https://gephi.org/ which allows to import simple csvs but it's really slow for large datasets (or i simply don't know how to use it properly which is not unlikely :)
17:36	artifexd	That's hot.
17:44	kakobrekla	rithm, yeah, although i fixed the parsing side, its not gonna work because it would break the simplicity of the design, so nick around if you wanna dick around
17:45	*	rithm dagger to the heart
17:48	fluffypony	dexX7: very cool
17:50	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4232 @ 0.00098871 = 4.1842 BTC [+]
17:52	bounce	probably should re-run that listing thing; the math was a bit borked.
17:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 650 @ 0.14 = 91 BTC
18:00	bounce	oh foo, need to re-do the via thing. hm.
18:01	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00098871 = 10.2826 BTC [+]
18:04	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 1 @ 0.14 BTC
18:05	dignork	dexX7: try this one instead of Gephi: http://tulip.labri.fr/TulipDrupal/ , on my graphs Gephi just crashed, but this one survived
18:06	dexX7	ah ty
18:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 11 @ 0.00994845 = 0.1094 BTC [-] {2}
18:15	dexX7	does anyone know since when blockchain.info is offline?
18:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10347 @ 0.00098849 = 10.2279 BTC [-] {2}
18:16	dexX7	ah nvm. i found the blogpost
18:20	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00098373 = 12.7885 BTC [-] {3}
18:22	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 600 @ 0.14 = 84 BTC
18:26	jurov	http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2014/apr/21/palcohol-powder-alcohol-vodka-rum-cocktail-snorting?CMP=fb_gu
18:26	ozbot	Palcohol: the powderised alcohol that turns water into rum | Life and style | The Guardian
18:26	jurov	sth for BingoBoingo
18:28	jurov	i have seen our future. soylent and palcohol.
18:28	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11753 @ 0.00098483 = 11.5747 BTC [+]
18:30	bounce	how does that work, powdering a liquid?
18:31	bounce	``If you have $100 million or more to invest, we'll be happy to talk to you. :) Otherwise we are not taking on investors.'' -- totally legit
18:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 50 @ 0.00750001 = 0.375 BTC [+] {2}
18:36	mircea_popescu	bounce da fuck is that ?
18:36	jurov	either it's powderware or they figured out a compound that produces ethanol in contact with water
18:38	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06611965 = 0.1984 BTC [+] {2}
18:38	jurov	!up benkay`
18:38	assbot	Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
18:38	benkay`	thanks jurov
18:39	benkay`	bounce, jurov: it's a crystalline thing that absorbs alcohol.
18:39	benkay`	and then (i think) dissolves in water.
18:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00098321 = 29.8404 BTC [-] {3}
18:40	jurov	why ChanServ did it?
18:40	jurov	!up benkay`
18:40	assbot	Voice for benkay` extended to 30 minutes.
18:41	benkay	figured it out
18:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.480234 = 2.4012 BTC [-] {4}
18:45	thestringpuller	;;later tell mod6 yo mod6 mon, you dead?
18:45	gribble	The operation succeeded.
18:45	dexX7	asicminer: "What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that? -> This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G." soo.. that's 8.5 - 67 petahash x_x
18:46	dexX7	source https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg6329377#msg6329377
18:49	asciilifeform	loltronicly - just got home to the Lande of teh Phree (tm)
18:49	asciilifeform	spend almost as long arse-sniffed by inspector dogs, standing in line, as on airplane
18:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48001 BTC [-]
18:50	mrstickball	107 PH.... nice
18:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.48000066 = 1.44 BTC [-] {2}
18:52	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 470 @ 0.00448406 = 2.1075 BTC [-] {12}
18:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00098994 = 23.1646 BTC [+] {2}
18:55	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00099131 = 12.1931 BTC [+]
18:55	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04010312 = 0.1203 BTC [+]
18:55	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06611999 = 0.1322 BTC [+]
19:00	thestringpuller	yo can we trade ATC in here?
19:00	thestringpuller	asciilifeform: you live in the states?
19:00	asciilifeform	thestringpuller: sadly, yes. i was brought there as a boy and haven't accumulated fuel for orbital escape velocity as of this moment.
19:02	thestringpuller	you know that's what I spend most of my time doing in kerbal space program
19:02	thestringpuller	i just shoot fuel into orbit
19:02	thestringpuller	like 90% of my time is spent doing that
19:02	thestringpuller	fucking gravity man
19:03	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00099227 = 1.29 BTC [+]
19:04	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8524 @ 0.00099227 = 8.4581 BTC [+]
19:10	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform 12 hours ?!
19:10	asciilifeform	aye
19:10	mircea_popescu	what ?!
19:10	asciilifeform	some of it, to be fair, spend puttering around in munchen
19:10	mircea_popescu	nuts.
19:12	diametric	Fancy
19:13	asciilifeform	takes almost as long to get out of washington's airport as to do a great circle loop across atlantic.
19:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18510 @ 0.00099173 = 18.3569 BTC [-] {2}
19:16	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 49 @ 0.00475992 = 0.2332 BTC [+]
19:17	dexX7	did you do anything "suspicious" or is this the regular waiting time?
19:18	davout	;;rate asciilifeform 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
19:18	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.
19:19	davout	;;rate mike_c 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
19:19	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mike_c has been recorded.
19:19	davout	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
19:19	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
19:20	davout	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
19:20	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 1.
19:21	davout	;;rate kakobrekla 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also Bit4x
19:21	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.
19:22	davout	dexX7: i'm kind of surprised asciilifeform got through the customs at all with all the gear he was carrying :D
19:23	thestringpuller	lol rate away
19:23	dexX7	sounds like a nice party you guys had
19:23	davout	gribble will tell you if you overwrite a previous rating, right?
19:23	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5488 @ 0.000986 = 5.4112 BTC [-]
19:24	davout	dexX7: it was very interesting indeed
19:24	diametric	I've been promised to hear some good stories about it tomorrow
19:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.49917942 = 2.4959 BTC [+] {3}
19:25	thestringpuller	davout: if you met them IRL wouldn't you give them at least a 5
19:25	davout	diametric: pictures speak a thousand words : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-04-2014#633655
19:25	diametric	davout: incredible
19:26	davout	thestringpuller: you reckon?
19:26	thestringpuller	5 was arbritrary
19:26	thestringpuller	lets say 2
19:26	thestringpuller	or 3
19:26	thestringpuller	being conservative and shit
19:26	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/an-hero-is-he/#comment-99191
19:26	ozbot	An hero is he… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
19:26	mircea_popescu	nao im almost as good as stan, i have my own derp.
19:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 144 @ 0.00430214 = 0.6195 BTC [-] {8}
19:26	mircea_popescu	my 500th, but anyway.
19:27	diametric	That picture of Stan by the o-scope is amazing
19:27	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
19:27	davout	mircea_popescu: mazeltov
19:27	davout	i took a few pictures, mircea_popescu if you want to compile them lemme me know
19:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 498 @ 0.00392797 = 1.9561 BTC [-] {18}
19:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 394 @ 0.0032169 = 1.2675 BTC [-] {20}
19:39	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 54 @ 0.004201 = 0.2269 BTC [+]
19:39	mircea_popescu	davout jus' publish em
19:40	mircea_popescu	diametric pretty cool huh.
19:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48131543 BTC [-]
19:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 74 @ 0.00423376 = 0.3133 BTC [+] {4}
19:52	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00424997 = 0.1317 BTC [+] {3}
19:56	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4811317 BTC [-]
19:56	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 92 @ 0.00424996 = 0.391 BTC [+] {2}
20:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2500 @ 0.00013062 = 0.3266 BTC [-] {6}
20:03	thestringpuller	publish dat shit
20:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48002102 BTC [-]
20:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 110 @ 0.00436006 = 0.4796 BTC [+] {5}
20:03	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.0009937 = 11.0798 BTC [+] {3}
20:09	mircea_popescu	"I found myself conversing with a young criminal lawyer who will soon be marrying into the same family that I did last summer. I think this makes us laws-in-laws."
20:09	mircea_popescu	funniest shit i read all week
		~ 22 minutes ~
20:31	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49896855 = 0.9979 BTC [+]
20:32	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00445 = 0.178 BTC [+] {2}
20:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00739988 = 0.1776 BTC [+] {2}
20:43	asciilifeform	dexX7: regular queue! no one bothered to actually search, arse or suitcase, on egress
20:44	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4810062 BTC [-]
20:45	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 36 @ 0.00445694 = 0.1604 BTC [+]
20:45	dexX7	i heard many bad things about arrival, tsa and such but i didn't expect it to be that bad
20:46	asciilifeform	davout: the customs at all with all the gear he was carrying << not one guard gave so much as a rat's arse! colour me equally surprised.
20:46	asciilifeform	although not quite true
20:46	asciilifeform	the american one, on the last exit before dulles parking lot, wanted to know 'what kind of business? software? now say, what kind!'
20:47	asciilifeform	me: 'financial, of course. want a demo?'
20:47	asciilifeform	muppet: 'no thanks, that door please'
20:48	asciilifeform	davout, others: i've a vast collection of pics, of various things, will eventually sort and post one or two.
20:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.49628404 = 3.9703 BTC [+] {4}
20:49	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00099425 = 18.2942 BTC [+]
20:53	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.49999948 = 10 BTC [+] {4}
20:54	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00454263 = 0.477 BTC [+] {3}
20:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.4995 = 0.999 BTC [-] {2}
21:00	kakobrekla	well, i had the romanian customs scratching my passport with his fingernails for like 10 minutes, asking all sorts of questions.
21:01	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35793 @ 0.00099105 = 35.4727 BTC [-] {3}
21:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 38 @ 0.47857315 = 18.1858 BTC [-] {10}
21:06	Apocalyptic	heh
		~ 17 minutes ~
21:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 35 @ 0.007 = 0.245 BTC [+]
21:26	TestingUnoDosTre	thank you assbot
21:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0295 = 0.118 BTC [-]
21:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4899989 BTC [+]
21:31	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla anything good ?
21:35	kakobrekla	nah
21:38	asciilifeform	loper-os.org/pub/humans
21:39	asciilifeform	everyone here should recognize at least one or two of these.
21:40	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.49697762 = 1.9879 BTC [+] {2}
21:41	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform lol mike looks like he's in trouble in that 1st one
21:43	mircea_popescu	actually he looks like he's in trouble throughout. poor him
21:44	kakobrekla	apparently i managed not to get doxxed this time
21:46	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00099425 = 4.6233 BTC [+]
21:47	mircea_popescu	nobody knoes how you look like!
21:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 19 @ 0.006988 = 0.1328 BTC [-]
22:04	kakobrekla	illegal, apparently.
22:05	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.07608533 = 0.1522 BTC [+]
22:06	cgcardona_	asciilifeform: epic pics. wish I was there.
22:06	asciilifeform	cgcardona_: mr. p throws one hell of a party.
22:06	cgcardona_	i can only imagine. hopefully next year
22:08	cgcardona_	;;rate asciilifeform 1 #bitcoin-assets regular and posted pics of the 2014 conf
22:08	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.
22:09	asciilifeform	also, turns out the plastic-and-pluckfoam case thing is a good idea. everything else in my baggage got spindled, save for the contents of the Evil Attache.
22:09	asciilifeform	(container pictured in bottom left of last photograph)
22:12	mircea_popescu	so anyone ran pagerank on wot yet ?
22:12	asciilifeform	;;ident
22:12	gribble	Nick 'asciilifeform', with hostmask 'asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net', is identified as user 'asciilifeform', with GPG key id B98228A001ABFFC7, key fingerprint 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7, and bitcoin address None
22:12	asciilifeform	;;rate davout 1 human!
22:12	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user davout has been recorded.
22:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5582 @ 0.00099254 = 5.5404 BTC [-]
22:12	asciilifeform	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 human!
22:12	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
22:13	TestingUnoDosTre	What is hooked up to the oscilloscope in that picture?
22:13	asciilifeform	TestingUnoDosTre: rng.
22:13	cgcardona_	in person wot-o-meter
22:14	asciilifeform	lul
22:14	mircea_popescu	not thick enough
22:15	TestingUnoDosTre	random number generator?
22:16	mircea_popescu	yes part of teh cardano
22:16	joecool	nah it's a heart monitor
22:16	joecool	nice though, first prototypes?
22:17	asciilifeform	joecool: second.
22:17	mircea_popescu	actually someone was trying to measure their pulse
22:17	mircea_popescu	but too noisy power
22:18	asciilifeform	need something like this:
22:18	asciilifeform	http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/127422769.png
22:19	joecool	http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/humans/1.jpg < you see this? this means you tell lies!
22:19	mircea_popescu	how so !?
22:20	mircea_popescu	o lol
22:20	joecool	mircea_popescu: would be a funny caption for it :)
22:20	mircea_popescu	yeah hehe
22:20	mircea_popescu	"and this is why you can;t have a penis"
22:20	joecool	"you are not the father!"
22:20	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00099254 = 6.7493 BTC [-]
22:21	mircea_popescu	"you sure you didn't eat the twix bar ?"
22:21	cgcardona_	"the price of btc over time"
22:23	mircea_popescu	anway, i'm out. take it ezzy!
22:23	cgcardona_	later MP
22:23	*	asciilifeform off to regeneration chamber.
22:24	cgcardona_	enjoy the charge
		~ 17 minutes ~
22:42	moiety	mew
22:44	cgcardona_	;;ticker
22:44	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 500.49, Best ask: 501.99, Bid-ask spread: 1.50000, Last trade: 501.99, 24 hour volume: 7222.12107105, 24 hour low: 490.0, 24 hour high: 515.0, 24 hour vwap: 500.068946591
22:45	moiety	;; later tell BingoBoingo nope not moi but it is a manul! had to go look, i'm never there anymore
22:45	gribble	The operation succeeded.
22:46	moiety	benkay!
22:46	moiety	!up benkay`
22:46	assbot	Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
22:47	moiety	do you even need the up with the ` bit?!
22:47	moiety	nvm
22:50	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14523 @ 0.00099375 = 14.4322 BTC [+] {2}
22:51	benkay`	apparently!
22:51	benkay`	something's hosed with freenode and my nick.
22:54	cgcardona_	in the spirit of benkay - PGP keys or GTFO </joke>
22:55	joecool	benkay`: /nickserv release benkay yourpassword
22:55	joecool	/nick benkay
22:55	joecool
22:55	joecool	PROFIT!
22:58	benkay`	cgcardona_: the difference between us is that my friends in this channel can identify me without my needing to auth. kinda crazy, neh?
22:58	benkay`	"friends".
22:59	benkay`	joecool: i did that earlier today, released, /nick'd myself, and then set it to autokick again.
23:00	moiety	how has everyone been?
23:01	benkay`	the landed gentry have been galivanting about romania playing with custom electronics and being generally glamorous
23:01	benkay`	http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/humans/
23:02	benkay`	how've you been, moiety ?
23:03	moiety	that place looks really nice! i havent seen these pictures, I saw the trilema ones. everyone looks so cute!
23:03	moiety	i've been surviving lol im fine. why did you go to the conf benkay?
23:04	moiety	not go **
23:05	benkay`	not i, not this year. i took some gents with whom i work up to the mountain for 4 days of drinking and talking about what the ever loving fuck we want to do for the next 3-7 years.
23:05	moiety	mountain pics??
23:06	moiety	did you come to any conclusions?
23:06	moiety	i saw kako took a good pic too
23:06	benkay`	point clouds
23:07	benkay`	and cheapo uav's
23:07	benkay`	now it's my job to get us from a where we are to b where we'd like to be which is building cool crap and making money at it
23:08	benkay`	but even before that, prototypes.
23:09	benkay`	which means banging atoms together. again. still. now.
23:11	moiety	gotta lub de atoms
23:12	moiety	prototypes of what?
23:13	benkay`	perhaps you love the atoms, and perhaps once i did as well, but i tired of the ever-present threat of digit removal.
23:15	moiety	i will have this fear to if i ever get to meet a manul
23:15	moiety	too*
23:15	moiety	also wtf is this shit? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573801.new#new
23:16	benkay`	har those pretty deadly things
23:16	benkay`	i was so excited to get my first motoman up 20
23:16	benkay`	then i nearly took my own head off with it
23:17	moiety	!up benkay`
23:17	assbot	Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
23:18	moiety	loli like typing !up i kinda wish it was !up [user] good boy!
23:18	benkay`	anyways. at the close of that gig i made a rule for myself that i would no longer sit at the controls of machines that could maim or kill me.
23:19	moiety	did you see that wee hexapod robot that can roll around in any direction?
23:19	moiety	im just looking at motoman
23:19	benkay`	perhaps, do share?
23:19	benkay`	motoman's just a bog-standard dumb dumb robot mfgr.
23:20	benkay`	the up-20 (universal payload, I imagine...) was an impressive device. rated at max for 20Kg, and could swing a payload of that size around at lethal speeds.
23:20	benkay`	give or take a moment of inertia or three.
23:20	moiety	o.o
23:20	moiety	sounds vicious
23:21	moiety	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn3FWb-vQQ4
23:21	ozbot	MorpHex, the incredible hexapod robot - YouTube
23:22	moiety	motoman looks entirely more useful
23:24	moiety	motoman looks vicious in action too
23:24	benkay`	interesting clockwork contraption.
23:24	moiety	some loud isn't it XD
23:26	benkay`	servos tend to be that way.
23:29	benkay`	anyways, coming projects have to do with floaty things not moving lots of metal around in production lines so the risk is probably bounded to burning my hands (only things that've been paying my meagre wages since time immemorial).
23:30	moiety	this thing scares the life out of me, its really fast
23:30	moiety	what kind of floaty things?
23:30	benkay`	>> cheapo uavs
23:30	benkay`	>> point clouds
23:31	benkay`	>> floaty things
23:31	benkay`	remainder is left as an exercise to the reader.
23:31	benkay`	good talkin' to ya, moiety.
23:31	benkay`	smell you later.
23:31	moiety	i didnt know what they were, i see now
23:31	moiety	later benkay, good to see you
23:34	moiety	got distracted by this http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=1677723
23:41	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22409 @ 0.00099181 = 22.2255 BTC [-] {3}
23:46	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.49989099 = 9.9978 BTC [+] {4}
23:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.49999714 = 3.5 BTC [+] {2}
23:55	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.0045 = 0.189 BTC [-]

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