#pest | 2025-09-28

jonsykkel: from where these numbers ?

12:02

also take note, in the text, of 'asymptotically cheaper'

12:04

(i.e. for very large integers, cost of addition/subtraction is basically 0 -- it happens as fast as you can read'em outta ram -- vs. cost of multiplications)

12:04

i invented the numbers, as i understand ur logic, ur saying the fact that u can replace any multiplication with this difrence of squarings thing means necesarily that the squareings cant be cheaper than 0.5 of a multiplication, since u could then replace the x*y with a ((x+y)^2-(x-y)^2)>>2. but it ignores the cost of + - >

12:04

>

12:05

thats proly true in practice yes

12:05

jonsykkel: entirely correct, we ignore cost of +/- as width -> inf

12:06

i se

12:06

that's what means 'asymptotically' there.

12:06

ok good stuf

12:06

what's you been up to , jonsykkel , other than working through asciilifeform's proofs ?

12:07

*

asciilifeform for his part -- deep in fpga deserts, for some time nao

12:10

aha, saltmine? ive been up to various non-computer stuf. making video game now, need a rsa for it, so geting bak to ffa

12:11

naa, not salt mine, fwiw

12:11

left the salt mines (hopefully, perma-left)

12:11

gona turn it into #1 global esport, become brillionaire. maybe i fund ur computronium cube computer reserch

12:11

a++

12:11

nice, dats good

12:12

*

asciilifeform gonna have to upload the xgcd chapter at some pt before jonsykkel gets to where it's reqd

12:12

w/out it, no key genning

12:12

errything else afaik is there

12:13

a++

~ 48 minutes ~

13:01

billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-27#1034939 << nice blackpill wrt this: https://x.com/curtis_yarvin/status/1972282312173003180 - yes yarvin is on X now.

13:01

Logged on 2025-09-27 16:37:02 billymg: also, not to get too optimistic, but is it starting to look like the fag/tranny/leftist (apologies for the repetition) menace might finally be taken care of?

~ 6 hours 43 minutes ~

19:45

awt: hard to disagree with that assessment. trump naming soros is the whitepill though, the administration doesn't have to win street fights if they can take out the financiers. i think trump et al. understand at this point, after the CK assassination and the attempt on trump, that the left is no longer just "playing polit

19:47

the desire for self-preservation ought to serve as sufficient motivation for them to wipe out the radical left, but for real this time

19:49

and if not, god help us all. but to me it looks like they know what's at stake

19:56

afaik there's been no 'the left'(tm) worth mentioning in the reich since, idk, 1968. what there is instead: the lizards & their 'manchurian candidates'

19:58

(typically includes both shooter and sacrificial lamb, e.g. that CK type who asciilifeform never heard of until kaput and river of crocodile tears from seemingly erry avail mouthpiece)

20:02

asciilifeform: i also didn't know much about charlie kirk prior to his death. had heard of him, knew he was some right-wing commentator/proponent, but didn't know much beyond that

20:03

but after his murder it became clear why the left had such a hard-on for him, he was preaching blasphemy in their churches (the universities), and it was working

20:04

asciilifeform: CK was flying under the radar - seems to have been very influential in getting trump elected and pushing various non-retard policies. My daughter knew who he was and she's 14. I thought he was just another podcaster debate me bro.

20:04

the youth, especially the males, were given an alternative to the demoralizing proposition of being forced to pretend that men can give birth

20:05

and other absurdities pushed by the left to demoralize sane normies

20:05

awt: nfi, simply noting that not heard of subj prior to when he was plugged

20:06

Idk about no left - judiciary, universities, corps, all leftist.

20:06

billymg: ~were~ they 'given alternative' tho? or simply thrown a bone?

20:07

asciilifeform: if the defecting group is large enough, can defect and still live normal life

20:07

awt: they're reichist, rather than 'leftist'. (what's 'leftist' about e.g. sending $maxint to ukronazis, for instance?)

20:08

my taxes in california feel very leftist

20:09

for example -- 20th c. leftists would've been very puzzled re e.g. the ongoing effort to bankrupt reich's welfare coffers by letting in 'all of mexico'

20:10

need moar leftists

20:11

letting in the third world helps keep the anarcho-tyranny engine running

20:11

ukraine is weird - end result is leftist though - more dead white christians

20:14

simply imho the 20th c 'polit compass' is not useful currently, is behaving as rng rather than compass.

20:14

direct dekulakization too obvious, let the hordes of poors do the dirty work, selectively enforce the law so that crime is legal and defense against crime is illegal

20:14

dekulakization is leftist

20:15

so yes, seeing leftism run rampant across all of the west

20:16

modern "marriage" and family is also leftist, where man has no power, woman holds divorce gun to his head, state can kidnap children via CPS etc. -- all leftist

20:16

dekulakization -- yes, but expanding nato, reich war machine, fattening lockheed et al & swarm of oligarchs? also 'leftist' ?

20:18

seems as if 'left' & 'right' in reich largely agree re 'state above individual', in its various manifestations

20:19

the only disagreement seems to be -- occasionally -- re which 'enemies of the people' they'd like to use the police state apparatus against

20:19

asciilifeform: redistributing wealth from those who earn it to oligarchs running the weapons companies, via taxation, seems very leftist, yes

20:20

billymg: not disputing the description of what's currently going on in reich, but rather the usefulness of 'compass' familiar from 20th c

20:21

the trans-xyzs imho not have much to do with the folx who got MG'd by pinkertons for demanding 8hr work day etc

20:21

asciilifeform: are we talking about "leftism the ideal", as sold by leftists? or what is observed in practice (taking other people's shit)?

20:23

both, tho the bait & the reality of the mousetrap oughta be treated separately

20:27

i'm not aware of any historical example where worked as advertised and didn't devolve (or evolve as itended?) into some form of dekulakization. so if reality always follows directly and consistently from 'bait' then i don't see a problem with referencing the bait's label to describe the entire scam

20:28

the lizards call it "leftism" and so that's an easy label for me to use as well

20:32

asciilifeform: indeed what made the 3rd reich "right wing"?

~ 22 minutes ~

20:55

awt: 'blood & soil'(tm)(r) wankage, emphasis (variably performative) on tradition, religion, pedigree, etc. neh

20:56

(in reality n-1st reich was a veeery mixed bag, so actually easy to retro-pain 'left' or 'right' depending on the commenter's inclinations.)

20:56

*retro-paint

20:57

for that matter, post-ww2 part of stalin's reign was in various aspects an anglo 'rightist''s wet dream -- small biz permitted, phamblyvalues, abortion verboten, even sex-separated schools, penmanship wankage, 19th c epaulettes reintroduced, could continue, volumes of examples

20:59

Seems like then really there hasn't been any "right wing" since the end of WWII. Or possibly WWI.

20:59

the seekrit thing is, the totalitarians won ~everywhere~ -- from physical, rather than political, causes

21:00

until sumbody comes up with 'tesla's death ray' or sumsuch similar means for a small town to win against billion-slave thrall economy & its wunderwaffen -- will continue

21:01

awt: e.g. thailand, or brunei, or saud, arguably qualify. they simply aint world powers

21:02

'world power' seems to require dekulakizing millions , enthralling'em to the great inca, so as to build rockets/nukes/etc hardware

21:03

nobody seems to get raging hardon for e.g. nepal tho, even while as 'right' as one'd like afaik

21:03

tradition -- respected there! xyz -- 'know their place', again afaik, etc

21:03

not sure what is their tax rate, but doubt is higher than anglotardreich

21:04

can bugmen be rw?

21:04

surely

21:04

hard to get > rw than the confucian bots neh

21:04

in so far as the compass arrows have any kinda philosophical meaning at all

21:05

(rather than 'people i like!'/not symbol)

21:13

There is a divide on the current "right" between the "wholesome chungus marry fat wife and raise 7 kids" crowd and the "aristocratic" right.

21:13

*

asciilifeform vaguely aware of this, finds lulzy

21:14

where, for instance, ought the 'wholesome fat wife' to get the dough to put the 7 through 100k$/y private school? (or are they to attend plebe school, to be impregnated/shivved/etc there ? )

↖ ↖

21:15

there aint a 1952 phactory worker 'makin' enuff to feed 8' for each of these to marry

21:16

or take the 'aristos' (i'ma assume we mean mr. mold et al?) -- where's the certainty that the god emperor they'd like to see enthroned will grant'em all titles ?

21:19

both flavours distinctly, imho, cargo cult.

21:19

quite literally. 'we'll put on these costumes and wave these here flags and douglases fulla delish cargo will surely land'

21:21

the douglases aint coming.

21:21

*

asciilifeform recently got chinese pcb's fabbed, for <$100 for a bag of a+++ au-plated etc. protos, and nao with new taxes it'd be ~500. still <1/2 of what it'd cost to 'made in usa', which remains a lul:

21:22

... usa suppliers aint even interested in small protos for 'human'. aint worth their time, for the most part.

21:22

*

asciilifeform did 'usa' prev, to see what was like, in '17 was already month+ of phone tag just to get actual conveyor motion, the only thing that worked pronto is them charging asciilifeform's cc

21:23

chinesium -- fully automated, www form, upload shits, 3d later -- mailed

21:23

0 meat puppet involvement.

21:26

http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-28#1035019 << let's not diminish the importance of these symbols in environments where "people i don't like" actively want to kill me and my family

21:26

Logged on 2025-09-28 21:05:11 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: (rather than 'people i like!'/not symbol)

21:27

current symbol for "group that wants to kill me" is "the left"

21:27

billymg: the rub is, the 'people you like', also often find equally willing to kill you, not tomorrow but day after, so to speak

21:27

and for some other pretext. but when yer dead yer just as dead

21:28

if it ends up that way then that's a problem for tomorrow

21:28

more urgent to address problem of today, in order to make it to tomorrow

21:28

the fundamental enemy is the megastate, rather than a particular batch of (largely -- scripted) loonies, is the thing

21:29

*

asciilifeform recalls when 'trans' existed in onesie-twosies and even soviet press discussed'em as scientific curiosities, 'marvels of american tech'

21:29

just about erry su dweller was convinced that 'trans' could birth children, for inst.

21:30

nobody saw one, even on tv, is the thing

21:34

*

asciilifeform still suspects that today's reich 'trans' is simply a rebadging of the ru 'skoptsy' heresy -- folx snipped own balls (and of initiates, sometimes under false pretexts) to get rid of sex drive

21:34

the issue with the looney troonz is that they are mentally ill and are being riled up by the left to attack their enemies. so not so much their mere existence, but the way they're being wielded

21:36

billymg: picture yerself as reich emperor (soros if you like). what'll ya do with $maxint d00ds who no longer have any prospect of getting laid ? wait for revolt? so they're snipping'em

21:36

http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-28#1035009 << imo we're in uncharted territory here, could be that billion-slave model is becoming less relevant (due to advances in automation)

21:36

Logged on 2025-09-28 21:00:46 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: until sumbody comes up with 'tesla's death ray' or sumsuch similar means for a small town to win against billion-slave thrall economy & its wunderwaffen -- will continue

21:37

asciilifeform: no disagreement there, the world is drowning in surplus males no doubt

21:38

billymg: observe that 'advances in automation' did not help iran, they had no working air cover for the centrifuges, it'd appear

21:38

reich flattened'em for nth time

21:38

make 1e4 modern jets, aa batts, etc. or no sovereignty, is the thing

21:39

+ proper intel, research apparatus (homegrown, not on lease from reich), etc

21:39

but i can't take seriously the reich emperor who looks at this problem and looks right past africa and instead sets his crosshairs on the relatively small percentage of whites in western countries

21:39

billymg: crosshairs are on 'people who expect nice things' and hence political risk

21:40

coolies who 'just want crust of bread' are a++ per emperor.

21:41

and then what? rule over rubble?

21:41

rule a la brazil, presumably

21:41

or brits in old india

21:41

yeah, looks like shit

21:42

mountbatten afaik was quite comfy in india. for him -- 'not shit', eh

21:42

shit for ~errybody else

21:42

asciilifeform: do you believe in the two competing factions of elites theory?

21:42

billymg: why 2 ? ( which 2 do you suppose they are ? )

21:42

yeah, i guess N elite factions

21:42

at this pt there are prolly N

21:43

just as in e.g. sovok circa '89

21:43

do you see that as an accurate model or is there only one and any perceived palace conflict is pure theater for masses?

21:43

erry shithole locale has own elite which would like to convert to feodal titular nobility, say

21:44

ok let's say in usg.reich then

21:44

billymg: the 'conflicts' you see if you turn on a reichvision set -- theater

21:44

one faction of elites in usg, or > 1?

21:44

>1 surely

21:46

for inst., the 'give lockheed et al $1t to do 'star wars'(tm) again' naturally in conflict with 'give $1t to ukrs to deposit in zurich and snort coke for 10k yrs' -- surely in conflict

21:47

whether or not they know they're in conflict

21:48

thing is, people who are exquisitely broken in the head, tend to believe in 'erryone gets what they want', 'lion lies with lamb'

21:48

e.g. 'infinite immigration' somehow together with 'welfare state'

21:49

i'm wondering about the coolies vs. "people who expect nice things" sides of the $maxint surplus meat problem

21:49

billymg: see e.g.

21:49

Logged on 2023-03-21 12:28:22 asciilifeform[5]: signpost: moar nuanced : infertility for the 'expecting to live in houses, be ill in hospitals, and retire' class; massively subsidized fertility for the replacement '0 expectations' class

21:50

so let's say there are two, for simplicity, sets of elite. one says "forget about the coolies, let's first take out those that expect to live one family to a house"

21:51

the competing faction says: "hey young man, would you like to take out some coolies for us, you'll get to keep most of the spoils"

21:51

1 problem: what spoils ?

21:51

what spoils brought back from e.g. afgan ?

21:51

idk, terraform africa and south america. the same way settlers without much else going for them in old europe came to america

21:52

fella comes back, takes off his uniform, gets a 'gs' jerb, pushing paper. who paves his street ?

21:52

coolies.

21:52

why come back? he stays in south america and breeds the natives

21:52

whynot?

21:52

or in africa

21:53

spain did this in south a. nao shining example of advanced civ there ?

21:53

can bring white peasant wife from the US too if he likes

21:53

or e.g frenchies in africa, ditto

21:53

didn't seem to work for producing civ-capable folx, did it

21:53

they didn't kill enough of the native males

21:53

in argentina, indians multiplied by 0

21:53

helped ?

21:54

i'm not familiar with the indians in argentina reference

21:55

problem: dead folx can't work (so you need new coolies -- or what, the white masters to work in the mines themselves? )

21:55

so keep enough around to be slaves

21:55

argentina imported euro-coolies

21:55

that seems to be what the chinese are currently doing in africa

21:56

billymg: 1 diff: they're doing it on very compact scale

21:56

i.e. for certain strategic minerals

21:56

rather than trying to occupy the continent & build latifundia etc

21:57

*

asciilifeform also heard various things re the effort not always being +ev for the chinese

21:57

very difficult to get the locals to e.g. maintain so much as a truck in working order, even at gunpoint

21:58

"it's all so tiresome" TM (R)

21:58

slaves, as it happens, are actually quite expensive in 'total cost of operation', when you include the fella with the rifle, the slowrolling, untrainability, etc.

21:59

there's a reason wai the white man deprecated'em in 19th c in favour of 'wage slave'

22:00

the latter -- cheaper, moar capable of complex work, and even compete for the chance to serve, train self at own expense, etc

22:00

and yet we're now at a point in the west where not even 'opportunity' to wage slave

22:01

because (cribbing here from mp!) 'they're africans, whatever colour they are'

22:02

so the elite have a problem on their hands then. too many disaffected/disenfranchised young white males

22:03

this'd be where the various zombification programmes come in, neh.

22:03

algo A, currently implemented, is anarcho-tyranny where orcs and looney troonz serve as the weapons

22:04

asciilifeform: yes, and pacification

22:04

cheap dope, estrogen shots, reddit, etc

22:04

and nobody's holding'em down and forcing, eh, they're queuing up willingly

22:05

like chinese 'opium retired'

22:05

large numbers of them, yes

22:05

for that matter, opium per se, iirc, is back

22:05

but those that e.g. followed what charlie kirk was pushing are going to the gym, going to church, studying, etc.

22:06

a virtuous elite could figure out a way to wield that group

22:07

very easy to gym, church, etc. when the gravy train rolls. what when their god abandons'em (e.g. 'pink slip') ?

22:07

with what pay for gym? etc

22:07

that whole subculture imho quite 'marie antoinette'

22:08

*

asciilifeform lulz at 'youtube influencers' preaching 'value of hard wurk!!111' etc

22:09

well apparently not "very easy" if the rest are just queuing up for reddit and fent

22:10

*

asciilifeform not aware of anyffin resembling 'virtuous elite' in reich, only of grifters pushing variants of 'become virtuous elite(tm) in 21 days!'

22:11

http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-28#1035073 << in your eyes who are they?

22:11

Logged on 2025-09-28 21:44:53 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: >1 surely

22:11

what i'm trying to get at is i believe there is a less-evil-than-soros faction

22:12

so perhaps can't call that "virtuous" but still.. less evil than soros

22:12

in '80s su there was an underground hit song, 'chained with one chain'

22:13

about how various folx, not necessarily evil, but find that they are forced to work evil

22:13

different types, but 'with 1 chain'

22:14

may disagree on various, but ultimately go where chain goes.

22:14

not sure i understand

22:15

you said >1 faction. are they all equally evil or some more evil than others?

22:16

>1 faction, but all fundamentally agree on most things, e.g. the 'printing press', quarrel only re who gets what % of the moolah train

22:18

there's not a 'let's not print' faction, it's structurally suicidal from elite pov

22:19

(i.e. actual, serious 'not print' would result in rm -rf ~all~ of the current elite factions )

22:21

ditto e.g. 'close nato' -- not at any serious risk of happening, it can only be 'closed' if simply rebranded into sumthing else, else lizard reich comes apart overnight like su

22:21

so people wise to that game can now hold btc, and one faction, "the left", is openly hostile to btc holders, the other, "maga", is leaving it alone

22:21

billymg: not quite

22:22

which part?

22:22

the gruppenfuhrer who gasses 5000 jewz / mo. vs the 1 who stops at only 1000, neither will be invited to 'yad vashem' in israel, eh

22:23

'maga' has not e.g. removed taxation of btc, nor unplugged the 'fire extinguisher', afaik

22:23

price (adj for the real usd inflation) has been stagnant 4evah

22:24

( i.e. the 2022 65k was considerably > today's 100+ in puch. power )

22:24

*purch

22:24

does this mean that this is what maga wants, or signs of a power struggle and indication that maga is not yet in complete control?

22:25

but this is how the usa muppet theatre worx, yes, 'pick $party, they only rape you 80% as hard as the other 1'

22:26

billymg: it isn't entirely impossible to distinguish 'not in control' from 'lolnope, never even wanted'

22:26

same re: antifa beating up normies in the streets. signs that this is what maga wants, or that maga is not yet in full control?

22:26

or any other issue

22:28

asciilifeform: what do you think is more likely then? to me it seems like trump is making a much better go of it this time around but still hasn't fully taken power

22:28

so, for instance, theoretically trump could decree 'irs budget for collecting tax on btc sales is now $0', 'blanket pardon a la biden on anyone accused of not paying btc tax', etc

22:28

no statutory bar to this afaik (ianal tho)

22:28

he could do it nao. but asciilifeform aint holding breath

22:29

if the fire extinguisher is turned off and btc is allowed to 'melt up' then 20% reich tax wouldn't be bad at all

22:29

potus still has, at least on paper, various powers -- for instance, to release any and all seekrit docs

22:29

(all 'classify' in us is, on paper, within presidential decree strictly)

22:30

^ that's the crux of it, 'on paper' is apparently not the same as actual power

22:30

billymg: re btc, was merely giving example of 'what's convince asciilifeform that maga(tm)(r)(c) has come' )

22:30

see e.g. deportations and all the roadblocks thrown up by random judges

22:30

the left still controls most institutional power

22:31

and so trump's 'paper power' is less effective

22:31

billymg: wouldja even know re the deportees wankage if reich media did not amp it ?

22:31

*

billymg believes he's aware of this though and working on it

22:31

could see any of it by looking out the window ?

22:32

dun matter how many mexes mr. t deports, or how few, white man will still not be offered 100k$ and 'picket fence house family' to lay asphalt, nao or 10y from nao

22:33

idk, would have to ask awt or signpost how things look in their locales

22:33

it's a distraction, in the usual style, like nixon's poodle ('taken as a bribe', also filled tv screens )

22:36

re 'does trump have power' -- the 'good king, evil barons' discourse is as old as recorded history afaik

22:37