Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2022-12-15 | 2022-12-17 →
11:09 asciilifeform meanwhile in #a.
11:09 dulapbot (asciilifeform) 2022-12-16 cgra: willing to peer up in pest, if any of billymg, jonsykkel, thimbronion, mod6, unpx want. ditto for any other pest-regular not currently on this medium
11:21 signpost I'm considering adding some pest-specific commands to deedbot, like coughing up peering details for anyone within my l2. anyone object?
11:22 signpost the person would've already had to join pest through someone else, but this will at least make a node with static IP easily accessible once on
11:22 asciilifeform signpost: what's the win from it, tho, given as still need to pgpgram key ?
11:22 asciilifeform signpost: it's what addrcast/prod is for
11:23 asciilifeform this knob already part of pest spec in 0xfb
11:24 signpost maybe less relevant for the IP reason then.
11:24 signpost deedbot already knows how to gpg-gram so it'd be easy to have it provide peering info itself to those close enough in wot
11:25 signpost another option is I make a lever to request direct peering and the caller supplies the peering info
11:25 signpost and I hand crank things out of this queue
11:26 signpost really just opening the question of what the proper relationship of bots to humans is in pestnet.
11:26 asciilifeform signpost: deedbot dispensing peerings (and generate own keys, etc) for itself to folx in l2 would be a++ imho
11:26 asciilifeform supposing signpost has the cycles to automate
11:26 signpost yeah, that's what I was thinking. cool.
11:27 signpost (supposedly!) past signpost made it pretty damn easy to introduce new commands, so lessee
11:28 signpost another question, how private do we consider the AT to be, if at all?
11:28 signpost was considering whether to make a !!at command for deedbot which pastes current table.
11:30 asciilifeform signpost: erry operator answers for self re 'is my ip seekrit'
11:30 asciilifeform currently we paste'em regularly, but per discussion in spec, 'only peers have any biz knowing existence/ip of station' in general
11:33 asciilifeform signpost: imho third parties (incl. l2+) have no biz knowing'em by default, and very little is gained by displaying'em
11:34 asciilifeform ( see also re philosophy. )
11:35 asciilifeform deedbot eating a pgpgram (from someone with key already on file) , signed, with 'please peer me, key=...., at=....' is 1 thing; but arbitrarily sharing ip of erry peer with erry peer -- why ?
11:41 * asciilifeform favours 'consenting adults' pov where if bot clearly labeled 'i'ma share errything with certain folx who aint your peers when you peer with me' entirely ok; but expects that many wouldn't want to peer with such bot, esp. since not clear what is gained
11:45 asciilifeform the 'i exchanged key with $operator, and he's on the pestnet but his ip changed and nao link broken' scenario is (or oughta be) 100% handled by addrcast/prod.
11:46 asciilifeform ( 'addrcast' is functionally a means for sending an arbitrary msg (currently constrained to 'at' info) to a specific key )
11:47 asciilifeform presumption is that if you give someone a peering key, your station can tell him its reachable addr/port, and vice-versa, so long as you're on same net.
11:48 asciilifeform (but folx whom you did ~not~ give key, have no biz knowing about yer station at all.)
11:48 * asciilifeform risks belabouring the point, but imho not unimportant.
11:57 signpost nah belaboring is entirely worthwhile.
11:57 signpost makes sense to me, no need for an !!at command except for bot-operator
11:57 signpost (me)
12:00 lobbes ye, the general philosophy of 'nothing to the stranger' is a boon imo. Beyond just the spec, upholding it in a 'cultural' way I think has merits as well, from what I can gather at least
12:00 signpost sure, was discussing who constitutes stranger to a bot.
12:01 signpost least-required info is a fine principle tho
12:03 phf i think we should give keys to a relay station to anyone registered in wot
12:04 signpost phf: registered at all? I was thinking some manner of "good standing" bar. or at least something with which to antispam.
12:04 phf yeah, registered at all
12:04 phf yeah, but what kind of spam, you have to generate a pgp key, !!register, then !!peer or whatever
12:05 phf and if it's about bozos, then you can e.g. add !!unpeer as a public command
12:05 phf like a good old !!down
12:06 signpost yeah, just thinking there needs to be a way to silence morons, when it comes to that
12:06 signpost one option would be that anyone can register, and anyone currently peered with deedbot can !!up which activates their peering.
12:07 signpost deedbot says something like "floppyjohnson wishes to join"
12:07 signpost !!up floppyjohnson
12:07 deedbot You may not !!up yourself.
12:07 signpost huehue
12:09 phf i think the moat should be optional until it becomes a problem. !!up on #t was barrier to entry, because any could just /join #t and then run their mouth (including spam bots). the barrier to entry is already significantly high
12:09 signpost that's fair. aren't there currently station impl flaws that allow randos to fill our disk atm though?
12:09 signpost all this said, happy to try it
12:10 signpost even a web-hole for n00bs
12:10 signpost with which to reg key and get peering info
12:11 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018606 << yeah, i think that's a valid point, of which i didn't think, because pest.lisp is significantly defensive
12:11 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 12:09:45 signpost: that's fair. aren't there currently station impl flaws that allow randos to fill our disk atm though?
12:12 signpost proper answer's probably "so they shouldn't"
12:13 signpost asciilifeform: any problem with trying the proposed n00b hole?
12:13 phf yeah, if somebody's going to pen test for us, more power to them
12:14 asciilifeform signpost, phf : imho n00b hole is an a++ thing, so long as the noobs are given strictly what they need to talk into the hole, and nomoar.
12:15 asciilifeform earlier phf proposed a www-based talk hole, similarly
12:15 signpost yup, thinking I put a www reg form on deedbot.org that takes key and nick, coughs up peering blob for deedbot station
12:16 phf yeah, www-based one requires significantly more work, where's this idea is just a handful of dozen-lines deedbot extensions
12:17 phf signpost, do you still have deedbot running on #a?
12:17 asciilifeform ideally would rate-limit the n00b hole (e.g. 10msgs in 10sec or somesuch) but afaik this knob not yet exists in blatta
12:18 asciilifeform phf: deedbot not currently tuned in #a
12:19 signpost lemme see if I can easily fix the bug I have with multiple instances running concurrently
12:19 signpost but yeah, that'd be pretty easy if so.
12:20 * asciilifeform hopes to retire 'dulapnet' in favour of a pest portal, once such thing exists
12:22 phf another surgical extension would be !!up support, if a newcommer is connected through a single hole, then it's easy to restrict the way the packets travel. "broadcast-text travels from pestnet to newcommer station, but not the other"
12:23 asciilifeform phf: lurkers can simply read a www log tho, imho not much reason to support dedicated lurk-only peerings
12:24 * awt looks forward to the deedbot n00b portal.
12:24 phf asciilifeform, i'm thinking how to support this http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018600
12:24 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 12:06:50 signpost: one option would be that anyone can register, and anyone currently peered with deedbot can !!up which activates their peering.
12:25 asciilifeform phf: a makes sense
12:26 phf because you get your peering, you stand up a station, but you don't get any kind of immediate response until somebody does !!up, you're basiclaly fully deactivated. if you have a lurk-only peering, you're on pest net right away without any need for lords' manual operation
12:27 * asciilifeform suspects that the gymnastics of setting up station / peering w/ deedbot will be sufficient bozo filter for long time. defo need a bw brake to keep some joker from filling disks tho, at least
12:28 phf that's why i'm proposing a symmetrical !!peer from outside, !!unpeer from insdie mechanism, which is aligned with how things are implemented right now
12:28 asciilifeform aha
12:29 * asciilifeform also in favour of a 'n00bs peer with deedbot, can talk at 1msg/s until unplugged' tho, in the mean time
12:29 asciilifeform ( and ideally we'll have N such gates, rather than only 1 )
12:30 phf yeah
12:31 phf i quite like this idea, because you can standup irc deedbot on some random librenode channel, as a kind of pest outpost
12:39 lobbes http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018632 << very much agreed re: bozo filtering. Even though I'm not the brightest, with my ~8 years of "pre-loaded context" it still took me about 2 weeks just to stand up a station and understand what it was doing at a "high-level". For a complete n00b, to be able to even grok what t
12:39 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 12:27:42 asciilifeform[6]: suspects that the gymnastics of setting up station / peering w/ deedbot will be sufficient bozo filter for long time. defo need a bw brake to keep some joker from filling disks tho, at least
12:39 lobbes hey are looking at is a moat in itself
12:40 phf 􏿽i also i think !!peer and !!unpeer should be re-entrant. flips bozo bit on a record, generates new peering key for use with toilet station. so e.g. if i go on librenode and do !!peer, will get fresh peering key with deedbot only. this way if i want to bootstrap a pest connection, i
12:40 phf 􏿽 only need my pgp key, which is right and proper
12:41 signpost hm yeah that's pretty cool
12:42 signpost being able to park tendrils of pestnet in other IRC networks
12:43 * asciilifeform suspects that the main n00b barrier atm is the gnarliness of the proto clients, with the irc frontends
12:44 phf maybe having it tied to wot is not a bad idea, e.g. l1 for deedbot means that you get essentially full peering no mater what, and is just a mechanism for emergency pest recovery. if you are negrated by many deedbot l1 you can't get peering no matter what. if you're "neurtral", unrated or l2 you get a regular peering key
12:46 asciilifeform ( not to mention the ugh of '1st, get hold of the right python...' etc )
12:47 signpost probs jonsykkel's is the most n00b friendly atm
12:48 signpost could get pentacle farting out a static build of that easily
12:48 signpost and iirc shinohai wrote a pbuild for blatta?
12:48 * signpost needs to fart the pentacle site out soon too, but will do this deedbot noob-outpost thing first
12:49 phf "our ease of use strategy is to tie it to a custom hardcore linux build!", strong symbolics vibes
12:49 signpost naw I'll sign a static bin and they can curl2sudo like they usually do!
12:49 signpost :D
12:49 asciilifeform lolyes
12:50 signpost but hey the thing's hermetic, so the hardcore linux would probably build on their turd
12:50 * asciilifeform ftr not averse to 'gui client with interface of 'slack' or aol etc' if someone magicked such into existence
12:51 asciilifeform ideally static build (to the extent $platform allows such at all) w/ no deps
12:51 asciilifeform ( on crapple, asciilifeform knows static linking to be irrecoverably broken; errywhere else -- still possible )
12:52 * asciilifeform not optimistic about own approach to gui , needs over9000 time even for elementary functionality, which asciilifeform not presently has.
12:53 asciilifeform but ideally 1 codebase, if at all possible, rather than N
12:54 * signpost not ironically proposing that whatever deps get pulled into pentacle as vpatches
12:54 signpost lot of the gruntwork of reliable builds of ??? is done
12:54 * asciilifeform had begun, some time ago, an ada pestronics proto, but paused, aiming to polish off new spec
12:54 * signpost considers the thing a build env rather than linux distro atm
12:56 asciilifeform signpost: staticity is rather inescapably key to 'gui pestron'. e.g.: if one were to use 'qt', then gotta pick ~which~, and qt4 won't build on 'modern' shitlinuxen, while qt5 pulls in gtk3 which banned in dulapgentoo & friends because dbus etc
12:57 asciilifeform if want crapple gui, then needs either qt, or raw x11ism, or sumbody who actually knows how to crapple gui 'natively'
12:57 asciilifeform ( or -- for completeness -- phf's tk thing, which seemed to work on crapple, but apparently not elsewhere )
12:57 signpost would rec just putting a sane interface at that layer as firewall between the clean station impl and the gui hairball
12:57 asciilifeform for mswin, nfi what even needed ( qt worx, or , again, sumbody who knows how to microshit-gui )
12:58 signpost as far as the UIs are concerned, there's this thing emitting updates about a tree it cares about.
12:58 signpost and a hole to send the thing commands
12:58 asciilifeform signpost: or. tho promises to be over9000x complicated
12:59 asciilifeform in practice, not so easy to split off the gui. e.g. you want a search box for station's logs. and results come from db. how to format'em depends heavily on the guitron
13:00 asciilifeform for that matter, 'send it commands' also somewhat os-specific. ('local sockets' not entirely standard)
13:01 asciilifeform not to mention the ui nightmare of n00b needing to set up 2, rather than 1 , proggy, and make'em talk to 1 anuther
13:01 asciilifeform (is rather that we have atm)
13:04 signpost more a question of what libpest public interface would be enough to keep stationdenken from being infiltrated by qtdenken or webshitdenken
13:04 signpost not necessary that there's yet another network protocol at this layer. just granting that "UI" will likely get torn up and replaced repeatedly, I'm sure.
13:04 signpost probably that process is what elucidates what a libpest oughta be shaped like.
13:05 asciilifeform db is anuther can of worms waiting to be opened. e.g. atm folx using sqlite, but it not supports (afaik) encryption on disk, which imho ideally would exist (enter pw on warmup of pestron)
13:07 asciilifeform ( and imho , to use any kinda db that ~aint~ solidly integrated into pestron, is terrible idea )
13:07 asciilifeform esp. in re noobs
13:10 signpost yep nobody's setting up a local postgres for this thing
13:10 asciilifeform the 'separate $proggy into $parts which talk over $protocol' thing -- is 1 of those ideals that seemed appealing in '80s, but today seems to reliably produce barf; witness e.g. tex's attempt to separate the renderer, and where it is today
13:11 asciilifeform ( is still appealing, imho, if somehow could download working standardized parts from that universe where these existed & worked... )
13:12 * asciilifeform recalls recent thrd re wordpress db backend
13:13 signpost was the conclusion that wp wasn't easily separable from mysql?
13:13 signpost I ported the thing to postgresql in about a day a while back; dunno where I put the sauces tho, lol
13:14 signpost but the principle that pest should take minimal steps to run is 100% correct
13:16 asciilifeform imho a reasonably-achievable standard is 'takes same effort to install as irc client'
~ 15 minutes ~
13:31 phf *same effort to install as mirc
13:36 phf come to think of it, early 2000s late 90s windows software was peak usability. mirc, irfanview, "the bat!" mail client, ICQ, winamp
13:36 asciilifeform aaha. grab exe, run.
13:36 phf that is within the limits of what the stack and the approach could provide
13:38 phf i remember how annoying it was that own built visual basic programs required a DLL. jeez, you had to have one extra DLL!
13:38 * asciilifeform recalls this !
13:38 asciilifeform was quite aesthetically ugh
13:39 * asciilifeform experienced a kind of 'inverse' of this ugh when realized that one could write linux proggies w/out any lib linkage, a la msdos, as demo'd in e.g. 'm'
13:39 signpost It really whips the llama's ass.
13:40 signpost the tone of software was fun back then.
13:41 phf i sometimes have those "'member!" moments, when looking at artifacts of old linux, how different pre-corporate linux was. peak hacker culture. i recon linus's "never break ABI" comes from that old school "grew up in 90s with DOS" mentality, more so than it is a unix thing
13:41 asciilifeform it's quite a fortuitous accident that we still have that api ( while it lasts... )
13:42 asciilifeform if were easier to break in a frog-boiling style, would've prolly been already broken long ago.
13:45 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018689 << i have a local instance of barksinthewind running on sqlite, enough that if you just click on any of the immediately exposed functionality, it's been a while that i've seen a php warning or sql error.
13:45 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 13:13:38 signpost: was the conclusion that wp wasn't easily separable from mysql?
13:47 phf but i know for a fact it's not a full coverage. in fact there are bits and pieces of wp code (at least hte vintage we're using) that were clearly there since early days, they are gnarly pieces of mysql/old-php that are full blown "i've never programmed before, so here's some spaghetti that i wrote in 98 in perl"
13:48 asciilifeform phf: a++. iirc did take some massage tho
13:48 signpost oh sure, it's a mess. just putting a bit of counterpressure on "clean interface between station and UI is impossible thicket"
13:48 asciilifeform defo not impossible.
13:48 asciilifeform merely difficult.
13:48 signpost but I'll grant possible premature optimization
13:49 phf 􏿽there are e.g. builders for classes of queries that are not fully utilized in admin or themes, and are there for you to put into your theme logic. they are essentially combinatoric mess of "i want all posts in category X, between these dates, with char count greater than". somethin
13:49 phf 􏿽g that could be trivially written as sql query, instead wrapped in a sql construction kit
13:50 phf deep inside those construction kits you'll suddently have mysql specific functions, or even mysql specific syntax extensions. so .e.g. "list all posts" works, but "list all posts with author X" breaks
13:54 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018669 << have you tried running this code http://glyf.org/screenshots/mac-tk.png ?
13:54 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 12:57:32 asciilifeform[6]: ( or -- for completeness -- phf's tk thing, which seemed to work on crapple, but apparently not elsewhere )
13:55 phf it's tcl, so should be executed in `wish`, that's missing from screenshots
13:59 signpost phf: http://trinque.org/wish1.png
14:00 signpost this box is on wayland so xwayland might have even moar fucked dpi situation.
14:00 phf hmm, looks fake and gay :(
14:01 signpost bummer
14:01 phf it looks like the button actually got scaled to accomodate some hypothetical scaling, but that didn't translate into font scaling
14:01 signpost it's possible I have a use-flag missing over here too
14:01 * signpost will fiddle
14:01 signpost going to keep doing the multi-net deedbot thing a while first.
14:03 signpost but yeah, with scaling 20, button even bigger, text still smol
14:03 signpost hm truetype use-flag
14:04 phf try calling, font create f1 -family Helvetica -size 18, and then passing -font f1 to button and label calls
14:05 signpost alrighty
14:05 phf by the looks of it, it's picking up some default fixed width version, i wonder if maybe Xft backend does the right thing™
14:07 phf or if you really want to make sure, do fc-list, which is going to give you all your truetype, and then choose some random font from that list, and replace Helvetica, with whatever. e.g. "Nimbus Sans L" or whatever
14:07 signpost for science, tried first with truetype on but same commands, still smol.
14:07 signpost yep I probably only have neckbeard fonts
14:08 phf signpost, the result ought to be anti-aliased, if you have xft and freetype and such enabled.
14:10 signpost yup that worked
14:10 phf judging by https://github.com/prati0100/git-gui/issues/29 (git gui uses tk) it probably is at least solvabale if one were to systematically explore the issue
14:10 phf signpost, worked how? screenshot!
14:11 signpost http://trinque.org/wish2.png
14:13 signpost http://trinque.org/wish3.png << looks nice without fiddling scaling over here, just font size
14:16 signpost slight pixelation probably due to running in an xwayland window. I can try it on the x11 box (which is also high dpi) later.
14:17 phf there you go then
14:21 phf i suspect tk actually sets scaling correctly based on display's dpi settings and whatever other x11 voodoo, but chooses bitmap fonts by default that don't scale
~ 19 minutes ~
14:41 signpost !!help
14:41 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
14:42 * signpost bbl
14:50 * asciilifeform tried this on dulap-gentoo, seems to draw a reasonably gigantic 'button'
14:50 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 14:11:32 signpost: http://trinque.org/wish2.png
14:50 asciilifeform phf ^
14:51 * asciilifeform wonders whether would work similarly for system menus, scrollbars, text boxen, etc etc
~ 3 hours 21 minutes ~
18:12 phf almost like something we can test
18:14 phf almost like there's a method by which we can systematically explore subjects like that arriving to a stable point of knowledge borne by experience
18:16 phf but i've also realized that most likely this stuff all works fine, because git-gui uses tk, which probably makes it the most used tk app in active deployment
18:21 phf would be nice if there was something like tk, but without tcl. an open question is e.g. whether python's tkinter calls out directly to widgets via c, or it uses tcl strings
18:23 phf cltk spawns a wish subprocess, which theoretically gives you an ability to spawn remote gui (there's code in cltk repo that sets that up, but i haven't tried it yet)
18:27 phf huh, git-gui is a giant single file tcl script, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/git/git/master/git-gui/git-gui.sh
~ 20 minutes ~
18:48 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018755 << to answer my own question, python sets up tcl interpreter and then mostly sends strings back and forth, but there's also helper code for manipulating tcl data directly, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/python/cpython/master/Modules/_tkinter.c
18:48 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 18:21:41 phf[awt]: would be nice if there was something like tk, but without tcl. an open question is e.g. whether python's tkinter calls out directly to widgets via c, or it uses tcl strings
18:52 phf so, basically, suboptimal
18:54 phf what we used to call back in the republican days "the whole spitoon"
~ 1 hours 51 minutes ~
20:45 signpost !!help
20:45 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
20:45 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
20:46 signpost hm, not sure why dupes, but otherwise.
20:46 * signpost fiddles moar
20:49 signpost !!help
20:49 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
20:54 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018756 << aa, asciilifeform was wondering how it worked w/out tcl! neato (tho also strongly suspect it'll feel palpably slow when over9000 elements in gui or mega-text scrolling etc)
20:54 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 18:23:06 phf[awt]: cltk spawns a wish subprocess, which theoretically gives you an ability to spawn remote gui (there's code in cltk repo that sets that up, but i haven't tried it yet)
20:56 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018758 << asciilifeform has a possibly perverse reaction when sees item like this (i.e. ~anyffin which he can't read in ~15min or so) : 'there is prolly a commonlisp impl. that weighs less than this! somewhere!'
20:56 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 18:48:00 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018755 << to answer my own question, python sets up tcl interpreter and then mostly sends strings back and forth, but there's also helper code for manipulating tcl data directly, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/python/cpython/master/Modules/_tkinter.c
20:56 asciilifeform ( may even be literally tru -- how much did e.g. 'ecl' weigh? dun recall )
20:57 signpost !!help
20:57 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
20:57 phf !!help
20:57 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
20:58 phf !!rate signpost 11 takes it to 11
20:58 deedbot (<= 1 (abs rating) 10)
20:58 signpost check out that neckbeardian error message
20:58 phf that's silly, rating should go to 11
20:58 asciilifeform hm is the help text intended to be different nao? loox to be same as yrs ago
20:59 signpost nah, I have just been using that as a sanity check command.
20:59 phf !!reputation phf
20:59 signpost got the thing happy with being connected to multiple networks
20:59 deedbot http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=LkXk
20:59 asciilifeform a
20:59 signpost will now update !!register per earlier thread
20:59 asciilifeform neato
21:00 phf http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018769 << the only test i've ran so far is load a canticle for leibowitz into text widget, annotate all instances of "the" with an onclick event, and put a marker in front of every paragraph. was extremely snappy
21:01 bitbot Logged on 2022-12-16 20:54:21 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018756 << aa, asciilifeform was wondering how it worked w/out tcl! neato (tho also strongly suspect it'll feel palpably slow when over9000 elements in gui or mega-text scrolling etc)
21:01 asciilifeform phf: pretty neat
21:02 phf obviously you probably wouldn't want to do an "online" state, gotta fully populate state and send user events back and forth, and state changes
21:02 asciilifeform right
21:02 phf main reason i did the canticle test, is because i want to be able to load significantly large useful portion of log into the gui, so that i don't have to do hacky things with partial updates and such
21:03 asciilifeform phf: speed of update (e.g. replace the 'the's with a lengthy seq of gensyms when clicked) may be worth experiment
21:03 asciilifeform (does it painfully reallocate when the text box updated 'in middle')
21:04 asciilifeform fwiw log is pretty certainly already big enuff that you wouldn't want ~all~ of it loaded into gui at all times
21:05 asciilifeform (would need sumthing like what heathen chats do, e.g. 'slack', monkey with scrollbar mechanics and partial load)
21:05 phf asciilifeform, the test was slightly different: updates between markers, because that's how i plan to implement log updates. basically you have two markers s<hash> e<hash>, and then there's a single op lisp side op, (with-hash-update hash (insert-text ...) (insert-newline ...))
21:06 phf i haven't tried stresstesting it (millions of updates in a tight loop or whatever), but casual on-event update worked fine
21:06 asciilifeform makes sense
21:06 asciilifeform presumably there's a way to make e.g. 'reply' button appear when hovering over a line
21:09 phf asciilifeform, you can't make widgets overlap or hover, you can have events on things though and you can have menu popup
21:09 asciilifeform also ok imho
21:10 phf but i haven't experimented with that feature yet, so i'm not sure how smooth or clunky it'll be
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