| 10:05 |
feedbot |
http://trilema.com/2020/whoooore/ << Trilema -- Whoooore! |
| 10:07 |
feedbot |
http://ossasepia.com/2020/08/01/ossasepia-logs-for-Aug-2020/ << Ossa Sepia -- #ossasepia Logs for Aug 2020 |
| |
~ 4 hours 39 minutes ~ |
| 14:47 |
diana_coman |
!!up #ossasepia newland0 |
| 14:47 |
deedbot |
newland0 voiced for 30 minutes. |
| 14:47 |
diana_coman |
hi newland0 |
| 14:47 |
newland0 |
Hi, I joined after seeing this: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Feb-2020/#1017844 |
| 14:47 |
sonofawitch |
2020-02-08 11:11:48 (#ossasepia) diana_coman: d41r2: to make it perfectly clear: you have the choice to go through all the log, collect those questions you ignored or refused to answer so far and then answer them in here one by one; only after you do that, you may ask for further clarification and/or talk in here; alternatively, you can of course either register a new key and restart this in a saner way and without all the stupid or o |
| 14:47 |
newland0 |
and figured, "this might be a place where one can learn things occasionally" |
| 14:48 |
diana_coman |
it happens, indeed |
| 14:48 |
diana_coman |
newland0: have you found younghands.club ? |
| 14:48 |
diana_coman |
!!key newland0 |
| 14:48 |
deedbot |
Not registered. |
| 14:49 |
newland0 |
looking |
| 14:49 |
diana_coman |
take your time; and ask your questions, too. |
| 14:51 |
newland0 |
why V instead of git? git is more code, but it's a full toolset that can be used essentially the same way and more |
| 14:51 |
diana_coman |
newland0: how do you figure "the same way" ? |
| 14:52 |
diana_coman |
even "essentially the same way", heh |
| 14:53 |
newland0 |
V seems like a way to exchange software and patches with trusted users |
| 14:53 |
newland0 |
git can do that also, so what am I missing? |
| 14:54 |
diana_coman |
well, in between "seems like" and "can do that" there's a whole lot of "missing", you know? how can you go "can do that" when all you have for "that" is "it seems so" |
| 14:55 |
trinque |
the order in which you stack things matters. |
| 14:55 |
diana_coman |
let me dig out some refs for you, anyways |
| 14:55 |
trinque |
one can bolt some crypto to the side of his git. |
| 14:55 |
trinque |
this isn't the same as saying "the fundamental unit of the written word is a signed patch" |
| 14:56 |
trinque |
there are plenty of niceties I'd benefit from, were they built into a mature v client. |
| 14:56 |
trinque |
they come on top of the sense, not before it. |
| 14:56 |
diana_coman |
eh, and identity and what user even means and code starting with the *reader* not the writer ... |
| 14:56 |
diana_coman |
there's a whole maze of roots from which the "seems so" tiny leaf sprouts |
| 14:59 |
diana_coman |
newland0: here's a quite recent talk re defining V anyway, perhaps it's easier to read and get some idea; then there is my attempted summary and from there you have also the canonical links to follow and the history and ~all of it. |
| 14:59 |
newland0 |
"there are plenty of niceties I'd benefit from" - yes |
| 14:59 |
sonofawitch |
2020-06-23 21:14:56 (#ossasepia) jfw: diana_coman: I'm trying for a concise intro/description of V, in the present (post-Republic) context. Does this about capture it: "versioning system that supports owner control of computing by placing primary focus on the change and explicit management of trust through strong cryptography" ? |
| 15:00 |
diana_coman |
newland0: how did you find the find that brought you here anyway? |
| 15:00 |
newland0 |
originally, saw a reference to trilema article(s) about wordpress xmlrpc.php being used as a ddos |
| 15:01 |
newland0 |
then other clicking around, recent comments, etc |
| 15:01 |
diana_coman |
ah, so you just found trilema and then got in here? heh, not bad; only...take it slowly, there is a LOT to it; on the bright side, there is also plenty of time, no hurry. |
| 15:02 |
newland0 |
the rest of the info about v seems to answer the other part of my question |
| 15:02 |
newland0 |
"why not 'just' make git act as desired" |
| 15:03 |
diana_coman |
newland0: on a side note, I've been toiling for...years already to make a different pile of ...code let's say so we keep it civil, "act as desired" |
| 15:03 |
newland0 |
is that wp or something else? |
| 15:03 |
newland0 |
and not that git is amazingly coherent but it does offer all operations needed to manipulate patch chains |
| 15:03 |
diana_coman |
see the Eulora category on my blog if you are ever curious; no, it's Eulora's client |
| 15:03 |
newland0 |
ok |
| 15:05 |
diana_coman |
newland0: among the usual versioning system (ie pre-V), git is indeed the most useful, yes; this doesn't make it any sort of V though and the lack is fundamental; as trinque points out, one can glue to it whatever on the side but that's hardly worth doing. |
| 15:05 |
newland0 |
depends on priorities |
| 15:05 |
diana_coman |
newland0: what are your priorities? |
| 15:06 |
diana_coman |
(and no, you can't make a car by attaching an engine to a cart, no matter what your priorities are) |
| 15:07 |
newland0 |
"just get something reasonable working" vs "build it right", in that case |
| 15:07 |
diana_coman |
what's unreasonable about V? lol |
| 15:08 |
newland0 |
no, "passable" vs "close to ideal" |
| 15:09 |
diana_coman |
otherwise yes, indeed, there is certainly the sane "get it to work" vs the insane "gotta be perfect because the world is now perfect too" but V implementation is the working type, not the perfect sort |
| 15:09 |
trinque |
this seems like a fruitless tack newland0, everyone here has used git. |
| 15:09 |
trinque |
I'm curious what you actually want to know, as I think it's a layer beneath this question |
| 15:09 |
newland0 |
I think that starts to answer my question anyway, "why not use git for this?" "because you would get something perhaps barely passable" |
| 15:09 |
newland0 |
questions are tricky things |
| 15:10 |
newland0 |
and v (read only a tiny bit about it) vs git (used it every day for years) seemed like as good a starting point here as any |
| 15:10 |
trinque |
there isn't really so much of a "vs" to it. |
| 15:11 |
newland0 |
in the sense of using a known reference point to try to understand something else, not in the sense of competition |
| 15:11 |
trinque |
v solved a problem we had, which was more important to us than the problem you perceive that git solves. |
| 15:11 |
newland0 |
ok |
| 15:12 |
newland0 |
going to read more about that later, thanks for the context |
| 15:12 |
trinque |
happy to continue to discuss whenever |
| 15:12 |
diana_coman |
newland0: in your terms, I guess the answer would indeed be "because git is not passable" |
| 15:13 |
trinque |
newland0: there are plenty of sad tales to read in re: trying to self-host linux, finding that upstream hosts of "packages" suddenly disappear, etc |
| 15:13 |
trinque |
they lead to "why v" |
| 15:17 |
diana_coman |
!!up #ossasepia newland0 |
| 15:17 |
deedbot |
newland0 voiced for 30 minutes. |
| 15:18 |
diana_coman |
newland0: if you register a key with deedbot, I'll rate you and then you can !!up yourself (once per connection is enough, too) |
| 15:25 |
newland0 |
ok, multitasking, back later to do that |
| 15:26 |
diana_coman |
no rush; usually I'm around for 1-2 hours starting from 7pm utc ; there may be others at other times but that's when the chan can get liveliest. |
| 15:27 |
newland0 |
got it |