Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-03-19 | 2020-03-21 → ↓
02:21 jfw so Panama's escalated from closing the border for non-residents, to curfew, to now suspending all passenger flights starting Sunday night, "for 30 days".
02:23 dorion we've been looking at flights, considering our options.
02:26 jfw I have no idea which place is the frying pan and which is the fire, or how that changes over days, weeks, months; but what I know is we're not as well established & connected here as we ought to be, have no place to go outside the city, whereas back in the "mainland" have more options
02:30 jfw to be clearer, our thinking is to hole up with family in USA, until this blows over at least as far as travel restrictions - and if it doesn't, Panama just isn't the place I'd rather be.
02:32 jfw We can continue with the business development, in fact one of the better current prospects is there, and meeting people is getting harder here.
02:32 dorion right now we're in the middle of a 1.5M+ city with a lot of poverty. portland, me is ~70k and my town in vt is ~20k. I have a lot more guns in vt, lol.
02:33 dorion some of the poorer neighborhoods are putting in check points during the day.
02:34 dorion have to have docs (including proof of address) and reason to be in the street.
02:34 dorion kyc/aml on j-walkers, lol.
02:35 jfw diana_coman: the question in here is basically, do you have advice for the situation or how to better evaluate it, or any particular caution against hopping on the ~next plane which is our present strong inclination.
02:37 dorion there's also screening at port of entry in usia and self-quarantine for 2 weeks if negative. couldn't get a straight answer if positive, but doubt we'd have much choice.
02:39 jfw "self-quarantine" apparently means promise to stay home and stay in touch with a doctor.
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
03:42 diana_coman jfw, dorion huh, and when I was asking if those wealthy actual investors are really there, you were convinced they were and it's just hard to get to touch their wot at all; re evaluation, given that it's quite late, it's a matter of what options do you really have now so I can't really tell from here
03:46 diana_coman at any rate, if you don't see any reason to stay there, then at least that part is clear; whether then you still have any other option re destination than going back home is a separate thing.
03:49 dorion diana_coman thanks. for now, we want to be here long term and plan to come back as soon as we could, 30 days best case scenario.
03:52 dorion panama may be handling this better than us, we'd been making preparations to stay here, but hadn't been paying too much mind. got more real with this restriction. have to decide in next 12 hrs or so what the next 30+ days will look like.
03:54 diana_coman dorion: whichever option you go, I doubt it will be "30 days only"
03:54 dorion right.
03:54 diana_coman panama is also not only panama-city perhaps but again - I have no idea there.
03:55 diana_coman ie if your problem is the huge town of idiots and so on, just get out of their way
03:55 diana_coman since well, there isn't much else you can currently do, as far as I understand
03:56 diana_coman I suppose by this stage you should think also re internet connectivity and basic stuff in there
03:57 dorion word on the street is they're going to start locking down movement in the city soon. not sure if that will happen or how long it'll last.
03:58 diana_coman dorion: the trouble is more - what are your options in the town if/when a. lock downs/whatever similars b. breakdowns & shortages?
03:59 dorion diana_coman there wouldn't be many.
04:00 jfw depends how bad or protracted the breakdowns. In a way the place is adapted to them, but to a limited degree
04:01 jfw like there's multiple internet providers, my building has a full backup generator - but if fuel shortage?
04:01 jfw I don't know that the country would be better for internet though.
04:02 diana_coman jfw: it's probably not by itself, no; the question is if you have more options to make it better for yourself there in such situation; again, kind of really late now but well, can't go back in time either
04:03 diana_coman conversely, I suppose - what't the worst case scenario you see if you decide to hop on the next plane now?
04:03 jfw yeah, I at least was caught in large part off guard.
04:05 diana_coman dorion, jfw re evaluation - a. what are the real options you can take currently b. what's the worst case scenario in each c. make a decision quickly because time is running out and then go for that decision 100%
04:05 jfw re worst case - seems like it'd be if the breakdowns or state controls get just as bad in the US, and we lost what resources we'd set up here
04:06 dorion I have more options in vt in the short term once I get there.
04:06 diana_coman dunno, you 2 think it through but again *worst* case scenarios and I'd say mid to long term, not short term only.
04:07 dorion alright, thanks diana_coman
04:07 diana_coman I guess panama might have a weaker state perhaps
04:07 dorion for sure
04:08 diana_coman also, not sure, aren't there a lot others you can bring together?
04:08 dorion weaker state, smaller population, more docile.
04:08 diana_coman ie maybe look at what you can make out of it, since you are there
04:08 diana_coman this goes into the a. what are the options
04:09 diana_coman tbh I personally would not go to the us but then again, I wouldn't really go to panama-city either, so not of much help there.
04:10 dorion diana_coman jfw said you may say that.
04:10 dorion lol.
04:10 diana_coman heh, yeah, I'm not surprised he did.
04:10 jfw then there's panama-country of "run-down shacks posing as hostels" fame
04:11 diana_coman jfw: sure; the point is that you need however way less resources there to make your life way better, that's the thing
04:12 diana_coman it's not about going "because it's good" but going because "I have more levarage to make it what I want it "
04:12 diana_coman well, if you do & want it, that is.
04:12 diana_coman leverage*
04:12 jfw as in, cost of land, thus construction, thus rent?
04:13 jfw more freedom to use the land too
04:13 dorion jfw there's way less competition and way weaker state here.
04:14 diana_coman jfw: that's just to scratch the surface but from there on, yes; more space, probably your money goes further too because less of it around otherwise etc; anyways, I need to go away now, I'll be back in around 1 hour
04:14 jfw alright thanks diana_coman.
04:14 dorion thanks diana_coman
~ 1 hours 30 minutes ~
05:44 * diana_coman will be around
~ 19 minutes ~
06:03 dorion diana_coman we'll be getting on the plane to regroup. the plan is to close the client in vermont, continue developing contacts here while we're away and return as soon as they permit residents again.
06:11 diana_coman dorion: ok; good luck!
06:16 dorion diana_coman thank you! will keep you posted.
~ 4 hours 35 minutes ~
10:52 BingoBoingo And the new thing's online http://mvdstandard.net/ I'll be running some errands today, taking Spanish class, and hammering out a blog post introducing it where I take a bit from the plans I'd been drafting adapted to the rather uncertain landscape on the other side of present herd stampede.
10:58 whaack jfw and dorion: godspeed
11:00 jfw ty whaack. That remote location you got may have its plusses; how are the supply lines holding out there?
11:07 whaack jfw: The super market in Santa Cruz was ~full and operations seem to be normal. Billymg reported that the big supermarket in Tamarindo (the more touristy town closer to the airport) has guards permitting only one person-per-family into the store at a time
11:08 jfw that old "safety in crowds" again right?
11:08 whaack I provisioned for 1-2 months of food after reading your article, although looking at my cabinets I'm not sure what's worse: death or eating what I purchased for 1-2 months straight (nuts, beans, rice, pastas, ramen)
11:09 whaack jfw: ah sorry, i meant the shelves in the super market were full
11:11 jfw I figured, yeah, and meant the bigger place is the one seeing more controls.
11:11 jfw I hear hunger works wonders for these kinds of uncertainties
11:12 BingoBoingo whaack: No fishing pole?
11:12 whaack BingoBoingo: I was about to say, I need to get fishing gear.
11:14 whaack People often fish right where I live
~ 3 hours 45 minutes ~
14:59 diana_coman hello cruciform , what brings you here?
15:00 cruciform Hi! I'm interested in your Young Hands program
15:01 diana_coman cruciform: why and how does that interest you?
15:02 diana_coman I know you've been around a bit since at least 2017, haven't you?
15:02 diana_coman enthdegree: are you around at all?
15:03 diana_coman cruciform: don't be shy and don't get stuck, it's a question not a gun.
15:03 enthdegree Diana yes although I am extremely busy with work things
15:03 enthdegree Will be around more this weekend
15:03 cruciform Yea: I've read ~a year of trilema logs (June 2017-June 2018); I'd like to learn how to use a computer - programming, trb; that sort of thing
15:03 diana_coman enthdegree: ok, this weekend then.
15:06 diana_coman cruciform: well, jfw and dorion give that sort of lessons really; my YH is with a rather different scope as such.
15:06 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-29 16:25:39 diana_coman: oh my, if I ever start "developing programmers" do me a favour and shoot me.
15:07 jfw diana_coman: travel prep is going fine so far here but got more running around town to do before evening. I can't promise that review today but won't rule it out either.
15:08 diana_coman jfw: eh, don't worry about the review now, you've got the travel prep to do properly; do that review when you are back home, what.
15:09 diana_coman cruciform: what do you do otherwise?
15:09 cruciform I play poker professionally
15:09 jfw diana_coman: ok, will do.
15:10 diana_coman huh, that sounds familiar for some reason.
15:10 diana_coman cruciform: and why do you want to switch from that to ...programming, anyway/
15:10 diana_coman ?
15:11 diana_coman but seriously, for getting to grips with what you seem to want ie more re keeping your own bitcoins, just talk to jfw and dorion, possibly after they are back at some settled point I guess.
15:12 cruciform possibly from here? http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2017-09-01#1709423
15:12 ossabot (trilema) 2017-09-01 mircea_popescu: Barbarossa_ write it up sometime, with pics and everything, i'd read. got a blog ?
15:12 diana_coman cruciform: right you are, it's from there indeed.
15:13 diana_coman I was just typing to ask if you are in the uk, lo
15:13 cruciform That was me under a different alias, before I got gpg working
15:13 cruciform Well, as much fun as looking-at-cards-and-hoping-they're-good is, I'd like to do something more productive
15:14 diana_coman cruciform: well, what's stopping you on doing something productive?
15:14 cruciform Also, "my" BTC are currently handled by programs I don't understand, which I'd like to change
15:15 cruciform Nothing at all; I'd just like to as productive as possible - not learn the wrong stuff
15:15 cruciform *be
15:16 cruciform For example, not sure if a syllabus something like this http://blog.esthlos.com/towards-a-computer-science-education/comment-page-1/ is appropriate
15:17 diana_coman cruciform: wanting to understand and to be productive sound all reasonable and fine, no problem there; how do those square with the 3 years since 2017?
15:17 * diana_coman wonders if esthlos will pop back in too at some point.
15:19 cruciform Strangely; I can distinctly recall having my headfucked while reading the logs full-time a few years ago, then... going back to work and reading the odd trilema article now and then.
15:19 diana_coman cruciform: jwrd has a curriculum in place and the materials and everything else; so dunno, if you really are after learning the right thing + quick & productive, that IS currently the best option; if however you mean you are looking for something else on whatever coordinates (dunno - no payment?), then fine, but it's something else.
15:20 diana_coman cruciform: lol, so what happened /how come you got back in exactly now anyway?
15:21 diana_coman whaack: did you get in the end any actual results at all?
15:21 cruciform I've been reading trilema more recently; remembered this is where the cool people are - I'd like to be like 'em
15:22 cruciform I don't really know how it is that I read a year of logs, then sorta-kinda went back to the day job for a while
15:24 cruciform I'm not concerned with payment/an income stream via compsci/programming at the moment, if that's what you mean?
15:24 diana_coman well, #trilema & tmsr closed down and very recently at that; people are still what they have always been but time matters too.
15:25 diana_coman cruciform: what I mean is that jwrd offer for a fee the sort of lessons you say you want so you should talk to them about that.
15:25 diana_coman cruciform: do you mind saying how old are you
15:25 diana_coman ?
15:25 cruciform 31
15:26 diana_coman thanks; where about in the uk are you anyway?
15:26 cruciform Gotcha; I realise I'm late to the party - I suppose I'm saying that I'm ready to stop dithering/beating round the bush
15:26 cruciform Croydon
15:27 diana_coman cruciform: london, ugh.
15:27 diana_coman or dunno, maybe congrats? lolz
15:27 cruciform yes - I was gonna move this month, but the plague etc
15:27 cruciform no, I despise London, too
15:28 diana_coman you know, I lost track of *how many* kept going on about how they despise London - while they came & stayed exactly there.
15:29 cruciform Isn't intertia a law of nature?
15:32 diana_coman perhaps my earlier I won't ask people for stuff anymore doesn't make the full picture clear but let me state plainly another part that comes with that - I won't take "saying that" for anything at all either and the yh application process is not going to be an exception from that either.
15:32 ossabot Logged on 2020-03-19 10:21:24 diana_coman: trinque: so why not *ask*, man? how the fuck am I supposed to guess what you read in it/can't read in it? I meant specifically that I won't ask people for stuff.
15:34 diana_coman cruciform: are you saying there that "inertia made me do it"
15:34 diana_coman ?
15:36 cruciform With regard to being in London despite hating it, no: I've needed to be here for work. In terms of why I've been read-only for the past 3 years, I don't know
15:38 diana_coman heh, that's pretty much how it goes, indeed; "despise it" "but!! money!!" lolz.
15:38 cruciform That's the strange thing: I didn't need the money
15:38 diana_coman anyways, nothing wrong with not knowing re the other bit - congrats on discovering the unknown!
15:38 diana_coman nobody said there "need it"; just "money", yeah
15:39 diana_coman cruciform: where did you come from, before despising london from within?
15:39 cruciform I grew up in Surrey; went to London for medschool
15:40 diana_coman ahahah, didn't know medschool was the qualification for professional poker.
15:40 diana_coman did you finish medschool?
15:40 cruciform dropping out improves the odds, so to speak ;)
15:40 diana_coman aha, lol
15:41 diana_coman cruciform: did you read around the yh site?
15:42 cruciform I've read a few weekly agenda posts of students - seeing their productivity was one of the reasons I wanted to get involved
15:43 cruciform And the charter, of course http://younghands.club/
15:49 diana_coman once I finish the review, I'll set the exact shape of that moving forwards too & get around to update everything here and there, as appropriate; meanwhile though, and as per earlier more relaxed requirements, I guess I'll open up an applicants category so that people have a space to do something that might indeed serve as "I'm interested" and back up their application.
15:49 ossabot Logged on 2020-03-19 05:02:56 diana_coman: so meanwhile consider the requirements slightly relaxed and take advantage of the situation while it lasts.
15:50 diana_coman cruciform: but to reiterate, specifically re btc, trb, programming, computers as such, from my point of view there are dorion and jfw covering that and I have no desire whatsoever to give lessons in it too.
15:51 diana_coman jwrd is their venture.
15:51 cruciform Your "...focus is on killing stupidity on sight, not on protecting egos, feelings, inner idjits and other unhelpful constructions."?
15:52 diana_coman cruciform: what's with that?
15:52 diana_coman that remains, sure.
15:52 cruciform ie. that's why you run YH; not compsci tuition, per se
15:53 whaack diana_coman: I have logs I'm sitting on to organize and publish, but in terms of work this week no - I have ~nothing to show so far. I've been in constant failure mode this week. I've been spinning and generally feeling sorry for myself. It is pathetic, and I need to snap out of it. Amongst the few things that have gotten me down lately, yesterday Catalonia left me.
15:54 diana_coman cruciform: here's the description of YH & #o as seen from the inside, might help I guess. (Because #ossasepia is part of YH project, yes.)
15:54 ossabot Logged on 2020-03-19 16:40:13 dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-19#1022347 - I see it more as you're interested in creating relationships and helping pe
15:55 diana_coman whaack: ahaha, don't cry for me catalonia/
15:56 diana_coman but seriously, wasn't ...hm, expected?
15:56 diana_coman whaack: anyways, why so sorry for yourself? sun,surf,stocked supermarkets, fish to fish, fruit to pick, what's so terrible?
15:58 cruciform diana_coman, I'd love to create relationships, and get more effective in achieving my goals
16:00 diana_coman cruciform: well, the question there is not "would you love that?" but always "how much are you willing to work for that?" And as per above, the spoken answer won't be enough by itself, that's all.
16:00 ossabot Logged on 2020-03-20 16:50:58 diana_coman: perhaps my earlier I won't ask people for stuff anymore doesn't make the full picture clear but let me state plainly another part that comes with that - I won't take "saying that" for anything at all either and the yh application process is not going to be an exception from that either.
16:00 diana_coman cruciform: do you have a blog of your own?
16:01 cruciform I had one hosted by Pizarro; not at the moment
16:04 cruciform I'll see if alf is interested in hosting one for me
16:04 diana_coman cruciform: do you plan to get yourself one? or do you want to inaugurate the new YH category of ...hm, maybe hopefuls, I guess
16:04 diana_coman understand that no, I won't take anyone in just through an interview anymore, that window is closed.
16:04 whaack diana_coman: Last week I was focused on those great aspects of where I am, but enjoying surfing and picking fruit makes me feel like a "happy idiot" and I'd rather get my happiness from another source = i.e. achievement. But when I sit at my desk and begin to work my mind goes elsewhere.
16:05 cruciform diana_coman, what are the requirements for entry?
16:05 diana_coman cruciform: entry where?
16:07 diana_coman cruciform: the "process" itself remains the same in the sense that it's still this.
16:07 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-16 16:28:16 diana_coman: dorion: the "application process" is very simple: 1. you figure out if you want in 2. if yes, you say it and then I figure out if I want you on
16:07 cruciform into the YH community - isn't that what you meant when you said an interview isn't enough?
16:08 diana_coman cruciform: see above, does that answer your question?
16:08 cruciform Ok; I'll read more logs and be back tomorrow evening - thanks for the referrals!
16:08 diana_coman cruciform: no problem.
16:09 cruciform diana_coman, yes, that makes sense
16:10 diana_coman whaack: lol; does the mind do anything where it goes, at least? if it really is processing something, might as well then sit and process until done.
16:10 * diana_coman will be back tomorrow.
16:11 whaack diana_coman: No, I think it really is just stalling.
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