Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-02-17 | 2020-02-19 → ↓
04:53 whaack diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I produced my article for today in a timely manner. WTI: Continue to focus on creating well structured outlines + not spinning while writing. B: I failed to make any progress connecting with people who trade btc here. I searched for meetups but all I saw was blockchain events in San Jose. WTI: I can go to the various bitcoin related meetup pages and message everyone who
04:53 whaack is actively attending events, asking if they know anyone willing to sell some btc for cash near where I live.
~ 3 hours 32 minutes ~
08:25 diana_coman http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/who-said-that-or-the-importance-of-v/#comment-208 - whaack , you'll have to sing your vpatch nao!
~ 6 hours 39 minutes ~
15:05 jfw Now we know why music has all those key signatures!
~ 27 minutes ~
15:32 jfw diana_coman: could you have a look at my draft musl missive at your convenience (after 7pm is fine)? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=gp4K
15:40 jfw http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-17#1018607 - thanks for clarifying bvt; the joys of beholding this will await me.
15:40 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-17 18:13:33 bvt: jfw: phf has fully done the job of vpatch parsing in ada, so not all string processing tasks in ada are hard; only if you go outside of the "string model" of the language this is the case; but specifically with ada, in some tasks you end up with 100x code for no clear benefit.
15:44 dorion whaack there may be people buying/selling btc at britneychain events. pretense, aside btc is > 90% of actual trade and otc morseo, so shitcoiners still need the cash/btc trade. then they can sell their btc for alts on their decentralized exchanges or w/e.
~ 51 minutes ~
16:35 feedbot http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/18/strutting-waving-and-skin-sharing-euloras-defaults/ << Ossa Sepia -- Strutting, Waving and Skin Sharing (Eulora's Defaults)
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
17:42 BingoBoingo diana_coman: If it's not too late, I would like to pledge as a page. This weekend as I turned 34, I was struck by terror as I pondered what exactly is inside my veins. Dread left me paralyzed. For years I've been trying to conquer my shortcomings as an independent, and I have failed.
↖
17:42 ossabot (trilema) 2020-02-15 mp_en_viaje: i seriously do not wish to hear anymore from you. if all you've got inside is in that vein, do me the favour and make that your last word.
17:42 BingoBoingo I have to surrender, unguided I don't have the stuff. If you will have me, I'm ready. Please help me take the steps to stop being a lemon.
17:51 * jfw tips his hat to BingoBoingo.
17:59 BingoBoingo I find myself powerless over my stupid and my life, to the extent I might still have one, has become unmanageable.
18:01 * BingoBoingo to the grocery store
18:10 whaack http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-18#1018610 bahaha, just waiting for billymg's vpatch viewer to include the necessary audio upload feature
18:10 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-18 04:38:34 diana_coman: http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/who-said-that-or-the-importance-of-v/#comment-208 - whaack , you'll have to sing your vpatch nao!
18:14 whaack dorion: Alright, I will include the more politically correct words that signal a chance of bitcoin activity as keywords in my search
~ 18 minutes ~
18:33 dorion whaack I said that to you, but wouldn't say that to the uninitiated. I was more saying don't give up on talking to them so fast. It's worth finding out if there are potential trade sources there because the reality is even if they're talking block chain, there is still probably a good percentage doing btc on the trade side.
18:34 dorion in my experience, many block chain/shitcoin people are open that they're only talking about/trading the alts to get more btc.
18:45 whaack dorion: do you think btc is where it stops, or are they in turn only interested in getting more btc to get more fiat?
18:57 dorion whaack hard to say generally outside of people have interest in making relationships to source liquidity in both directions.
19:00 diana_coman hello MrMeseekx ; what brings you here?
19:01 MrMeseekx Hello Diana. I heard about bingo's need for assistance to make a crawler for qntra outreach.
19:03 MrMeseekx So I am trying to contact him. Last thing I know is he went for groceries.
19:03 diana_coman MrMeseekx: so how/where did you hear of that ?
19:04 diana_coman MrMeseekx: well done on registering your key with deedbot; do you know someone around here or how did you find your way in here now?
19:05 MrMeseekx I have a chat group with some friends, and one of them introduced us about trilema long time ago and is always talking about itand sending links and the logs when something happens. So we are kind of always watching the affairs of the republic.
19:06 diana_coman MrMeseekx: oh, huh; but why just..watch? are we...entertaining? lolz.
19:06 MrMeseekx I went into #trilema once and introduced myself, unfortunately lost my previous key.
19:07 MrMeseekx I'd say entertaining and interesting to observe.
19:07 MrMeseekx And also admirable.
19:10 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-18#1018612 - jfw, it looks at your most reasonable self; the only bit that I think it's perhaps better set differently would be that "urge" - seriously, I have yet to see anyone do or even seriously consider something because of being urged by someone they didn't know; so maybe just set that as as a question and/or state that there is no reason for the added complexity?
19:10 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-18 11:46:18 jfw: diana_coman: could you have a look at my draft musl missive at your convenience (after 7pm is fine)? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=gp4K
19:10 diana_coman MrMeseekx: eh, dunno if we are that much in the showbusiness, lolz; what came of that previous introduction before losing your key, anyway?
19:11 diana_coman whaack: did you talk to Hannah at all ?
19:13 MrMeseekx diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-18#1604613
19:13 diana_coman BingoBoingo: hey, first of all - happy birthday!
19:14 MrMeseekx MP made some fun of me as an ancap and had some discussion over my plans for marriage and stuff. But I think I didn't end up that bad :D
19:14 MrMeseekx It is BingoBoingo's birthday? haha, what a coincidence. May I script something for him as a bday present :P
19:16 * diana_coman reads the ancient history of 2017, lmao; have a bit of patience.
19:17 diana_coman MrMeseekx: the best bday present is where he learns how to script, really; that doesn't mean necessarily you can't do anything, but you know, helping people is a tricky thing to get right.
19:18 MrMeseekx As far as I know he said he will study the code once he gets it.
19:19 whaack diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HjM0 (no urgency)
19:19 diana_coman MrMeseekx: I'm sure he will but that's separate anyway; so did you do that ancapia-nation-thing? lolz
19:21 whaack diana_coman: No I did not. I'll go ahead and ask for advice in her castle.
19:21 MrMeseekx diana_coman: I didn't, got too busy getting married. Still in my plans tho.
19:21 diana_coman MrMeseekx: and....why?
19:21 diana_coman I mean why still in the plans, lol?
19:22 diana_coman for the getting married I can imagine why a bit more easily.
19:22 MrMeseekx diana_coman: You mean why is there any need for it if Trilema and the WoT already exist? I ask myself the same.
19:23 MrMeseekx diana_coman: I think I still want to make an implementation of my own plan in my own way.
19:24 diana_coman MrMeseekx: not even that far, way closer - I mean first of all why do you think you "make" a... nation; well, as a side hobby, too, by the sounds of it; nothing wrong with your own plan and your own way but exactly what is this your own way?
19:25 BingoBoingo MrMeseekx: My birthday was actually Sunday, but thank you. I apologize but I've made a habit of not responding to private messages from strangers.
19:25 MrMeseekx BingoBoingo: Understandable.
19:26 diana_coman MrMeseekx: you know, re scripts and that, nobody can stop you making and publishing it anyway.
19:27 BingoBoingo MrMeseekx: Really it's been made clear to me that I've got to wrestle with it myself. Playing with tools that last few days has helped ease things a bit, but I'm still bumping into things and wrestling with how to shape the thing.
19:27 MrMeseekx diana_coman: My own way is basically creating the tools and environment that I believe would make the thing progress and thrive. Originally I thought it could start as social media, but then I thught a better idea is to make a to-do-list application... then turning them into contracts.
19:28 BingoBoingo MrMeseekx: I don't know hw many channel logs you've been following, but here's where I was as of last night http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema-hanbot/2020-02-17#1001392
19:28 ossabot (trilema-hanbot) 2020-02-17 BingoBoingo: hanbot_abroad diana_coman: The problem of identifying an article url on a blog url without importing python or something else heavy has me stumped, so I've been reconsidering the possibility of blasting out a crawl over serveral degrees. The flow filewise would be something like 'churn' to 'churndomains' to 'churn2' to 'churndomains2' and so on out to the ending on a list of all the urls scraped in the third or fo
19:29 jfw diana_coman: yeah the urging doesn't add much; better to do than talk about doing. Tweaked the wording and will launch momentarily.
19:29 diana_coman MrMeseekx: do you think it's tools that make anything progress and thrive?
19:29 diana_coman is that the nation of shiny tools you are planning there?
19:31 MrMeseekx BingoBoingo: So if I understand correctly the problem is identifying the links to blog articles?
19:31 diana_coman MrMeseekx: understand that I'm not against help but help is what is actually needed, not what one finds convenient to give at one time or another, that's the rub; and if I get correctly that "voluntaryism" to mean the sort of "tourism where you volunteer aka get to feel virtuous while seeing others that have it worse than you", there is some serious mismatch.
19:31 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Thank you
19:32 BingoBoingo MrMeseekx: It's one potential problem. There is also the meta problem of whether that's actually the problem I should be attacking.
19:35 diana_coman MrMeseekx: what does this admirable mean concretely from your point of view? that you want to be part of this admirable thing? or that you'd rather not be part of it?
19:35 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-18 15:20:47 MrMeseekx: And also admirable.
19:36 MrMeseekx BingoBoingo: To resolve the meta problem I think the goal must be very clearly stated. I can say that from what I read in your bingology post crawler specs, you are kind of mixing *what* you want to get with *how* you are trying to get it. From step 3 I can get that the goal seems to be to find targets. But it specifies that targets will be identified by finding comment boxes.
19:38 BingoBoingo MrMeseekx: In my attempts to do mass commenting by hand, discovery of functioning comment boxes is indeed the biggest time sink. Bigger than actually spinning comments relevant to the articles attached to the boxes.
19:38 diana_coman BingoBoingo: we'll talk for sure some more but at a time when it's a bit more...peaceful.
19:38 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Thank you.
19:38 MrMeseekx diana_coman: It is admirable that a community based on gpg contracts wot was built. Do I want to be part of it? I think so.
19:42 diana_coman MrMeseekx: dunno, I thought you'd rather made your own thing than be part of anything, admirable or not, as it might be.
19:44 diana_coman for the logs, the voluntaryism, actual virtual nation and other projects
19:44 ossabot (trilema) 2017-01-17 Ingolfr_Arnarson: asciilifeform: I do not have a www created. Just owning www.ancapia.com, trying to design the best plan to make it a guide for people into voluntaryism or to turn it into an actual virtual nation conforming instructions. If possible. If I decide it is not, then I'll drop it and dedicate onto other projects I have.
19:46 MrMeseekx BingoBoingo: Do you have any urls of pages that have been difficult to process that way?
19:47 MrMeseekx diana_coman: Do both things have to be mutually exclusive?
19:49 BingoBoingo MrMeseekx: Right now I'm still working on finessign an step earlier than that.
19:49 dorion diana_coman for my article series in progress, I took a step back to clarify the subject, scope and structure. here's what I have for that. I've started on converting the content I have in .tex to html , but not done yet.
19:49 diana_coman MrMeseekx: what's your idea of "being part of tmsr"?
19:50 MrMeseekx diana_coman: and yes, tools is what makes things progress. If you disagree I'd like to know why.
19:52 diana_coman MrMeseekx: because no pile of tools is ever worth anything by itself; it's always people that make things progress (or regress) and you can give/have the most amazing of tools and you'll still not get anywhere without the people capable and willing to get somewhere; is this news?
19:52 MrMeseekx diana_coman: I see being part of tmsr as being part of the conversation, joining the WoT, earning your rates fulfilling your contracts.
19:54 MrMeseekx diana_coman: Of course you need the people, but once you find the people, they will need the right tools. Actually, if the tools you have help you in finding the right people, even better.
19:55 diana_coman dorion: now that sounds like a History of TMSR from its pre-history to the present but I can't quite tell yet if you are aiming style-wise for Xenophon, Herodotus, Gibbon or who else!
19:57 diana_coman MrMeseekx: so you followed the logs since 2017 and you got this idea that tmsr is like a corporation that you might fulfill some contracts for and therefore become "part of it"?
19:58 diana_coman with added bonus that there are some amazing tools (that you'll make because since it's tools you are used to make then and therefore it follows that it's exactly *tools* that happen - how conveniently! - to be the actual core and crux and *everything* most needed and most important otherwise, right?
19:59 dorion diana_coman yeah, that's essentially what my presentations were on. The history of Bitcoin and TMSR that's there, waiting to be read, that many people haven't found their way to.
19:59 dorion The idea is for the series to be a coherent entry point for the context.
20:00 dorion AMAZING COMPANY !!!
20:01 diana_coman dorion: yes but it's one thing to set out to document and it's another thing to set out to "Discuss the deeds of the major actors in Bitcoin on technological, financial and political fronts."
20:01 MrMeseekx diana_coman: well, tmsr is the last place where humans can prove being worth of surviving after everything else goes to zero. But basically yeah, it is built on identity and getting things done.
20:02 diana_coman dorion: you know, for one thing one might correctly ask you what and how exactly qualifies you for that sort of discussion; what are you going to answer exactly?
20:04 diana_coman MrMeseekx: that being built on identity doesn't strike you at all at odds with your proposed approach to be "part of it" by ...fulfilling contracts on the side in between "making own nation", marriage and building those amazing tools?
20:05 diana_coman (those that will bring people out of ...hm, out of what, even?)
20:07 dorion diana_coman good question. a correct shift then to align the task with what my qualifications may be could be, "this is the important history as I understand it"
20:08 MrMeseekx diana_coman: hahaa, no because I am not meaning it in a way of being 'part of it' as becoming a refugee under welfare in a progressive nation, but to be literally a part.
20:08 diana_coman dorion: if you are aiming to provide that "coherent entry point", your goal is to collect & structure, not to discuss; does this distinction make sense to you?
20:09 diana_coman MrMeseekx: it's not even possible to be part of it as a "refugee under welfare", what nonsense is that
20:10 MrMeseekx diana_coman: exactly. But you know how 'a nation' is defined nowadays, everybody can be part of it, you can do anything.
20:12 diana_coman MrMeseekx: trouble is that it's *also* not "being part of it" through the act of ..coding as such, that is also pure nonsense.
20:13 diana_coman dorion: the choice/selection is of course entirely yours and personal and as such inevitably "the important history" as *you* understand it, of course.
20:13 diana_coman to the extent you want/have comments, you can of course also add those comments in there, it's your article and all that; but that doesn't quite amount to "discussing the deeds etc"
20:14 diana_coman MrMeseekx: tmsr is anyway a republic so not exactly much to do with "how a nation is defined nowadays"
20:15 MrMeseekx so how is one part of it.
20:17 dorion diana_coman ok. collect and structure was the meat of what I did in the presentation. the comments I made were summaries of various articles/events, e.g. the politics of bitcoin delineates, among other things, fiat businessness attempting to exploit bitcoin for fiat gains and Bitcoin businesses insulated from fiat.
20:18 diana_coman MrMeseekx: is that a question? apparently outside tmsr it's even question marks that are difficult to ...find? at any rate, for one quick and clear answer, here: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-03-04#1900385
20:18 ossabot (trilema) 2019-03-04 mircea_popescu: empire does not in any factual sense exist. man who works 70% of the time for idiots is === the remaining 30% of that man.
20:20 diana_coman dorion: all right; so do you /were you planning to do something in addition to that? (if yes, what?) or just more of that ie more details/events/articles?
20:21 diana_coman dorion: understand that I'm not trying to hold you back from enjoyable work there; I'm only trying to hold you back from overshooting without even quite realising it.
20:21 dorion more of the details/events/articles since I restricted the content of the presentations to the 2hrs speaking I had. and to turn the deck as prompts for speaking to coherent articles.
20:24 diana_coman MrMeseekx: another way of putting this is that whether you are part of tmsr or not starts from *who you are* in everything you do and as such, when you are coming from a long history of purposefully staying *outside* of it, it usually involves/requires a lot of self-change aka learning at its most...radical, let's say.
20:26 diana_coman dorion: all right, so by the sounds of it you are aiming for something reasonable, except your statement of it got out of hand entirely ie you do need to either pay more attention to what words like "discuss the deeds of" really mean or otherwise generally to tone down the *description* of what you plan to do.
20:29 diana_coman possibly both really, it's essentially just another facet of that tendency to jump abruptly
20:29 ossabot (trilema) 2020-02-17 dorion: spyked is rebuilding trb shortly, so if mod6 leads the way, followed by jfw and spyked that's at least 3 people scrutinizing the clearsigning scheme, tools and likely many of the same patches within the same timeframe.
20:30 diana_coman dorion: anyways, then do the outline for that 2009-2010 so you can get started sooner rather than later, all right?
20:31 MrMeseekx diana_coman: so to be (as in to exist) in tmsr one must be 100% in tmsr, meaning the cost of opportunity of not being is 100%.
20:31 dorion diana_coman yeah, probably both. goes back to the point you made a while ago about the opportunity I have to get more depth.
20:31 dorion diana_coman ok, will move on 2009-2010 outline.
20:32 dorion ty diana_coman
20:33 diana_coman dorion: more depth indeed; and yw, do come with whatever version of that outline you have, sooner rather than later, ok?
20:33 diana_coman MrMeseekx: well, tell me something, are you part of your marriage 30%? 50%? what %?
20:34 dorion diana_coman aok.
20:38 diana_coman MrMeseekx: as you might have noticed, that doesn't mean people don't live in the real world or something; it simply means that it's all about who you are and that's always 100% indeed, in all places and at all times, how can it be less that that.
20:40 diana_coman (not to mention why on Earth would you *want* it to be less than that - it's like wanting to chop off a leg)
20:41 MrMeseekx diana_coman: I see your point.
20:41 MrMeseekx But how to know who somebody is?
20:42 MrMeseekx Or how do you do to find out who somebody is.
20:43 MrMeseekx But clearly with % I meant to not waste time in doing things what won't help you achieve the goals you have.
20:50 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-18#1018737 - traditionally that is most obviously found out in crisis situations really; did you read modernism and traditionalism?
20:50 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-18 16:55:28 MrMeseekx: Or how do you do to find out who somebody is.
20:50 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-18#1018738 - what if your goals are wrong to start with?
20:50 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-18 16:57:01 MrMeseekx: But clearly with % I meant to not waste time in doing things what won't help you achieve the goals you have.
20:51 diana_coman MrMeseekx: and no, that "clearly" is not at all clearly to me; I don't follow so maybe you explain to me what you mean there.
20:52 diana_coman MrMeseekx: you know, as an analogy - how do you find out if something shiny is gold or not? you ...test it, right?
20:53 MrMeseekx You have resources, at any point, time, money, credibility, etc. You have to decide which % of each use for what, depending of which goal you pick. If your goal is wrong, then that % used in it got wasted.
20:55 diana_coman MrMeseekx: eh, do read that modernism and traditionalism because you are sidestepping there entirely any being as such.
20:55 MrMeseekx diana_coman: Yes, you test it. Using the best tools you have to test it at the moment.Yes, you can be wrong about the right tools too, as you can be wrong about a goal. But finding out when one is wrong is how you get your knowledge.
20:55 diana_coman ahaha, that focus on tools.
20:56 diana_coman sure, finding out when you are wrong *and changing as a result* is exactly how one learns, certainly.
20:56 diana_coman do mind that troublesome second part.
20:59 MrMeseekx I agree.
21:03 diana_coman MrMeseekx: glad to hear the words; curious to see how the actions will match that too, heh.
21:07 diana_coman whaack: got it, thanks; is there something you wanted to discuss ?
~ 20 minutes ~
21:27 diana_coman BingoBoingo: you around?
21:28 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I am
21:30 diana_coman BingoBoingo: mind telling me (or perhaps writing it up if that's easier/clearer) in more detail what you figured out to be in your veins as you put it?
21:30 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-18 13:55:24 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: If it's not too late, I would like to pledge as a page. This weekend as I turned 34, I was struck by terror as I pondered what exactly is inside my veins. Dread left me paralyzed. For years I've been trying to conquer my shortcomings as an independent, and I have failed.
21:33 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I found a lot of uncertainty. I found that in my disorganization, I let a skills gape, culture gap, and all sorts of other small gaps grow in my blindspots.
21:35 BingoBoingo I found that if I keep trying to maintain the pretense of independence, these gaps can only grow.
21:35 diana_coman BingoBoingo: why can they only grow?
21:36 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I lack practice and experience productively directing my attention and activity
21:39 BingoBoingo I see the examination and confrontation of flaws in this castle, and I've stubbornly been thinking I'm special. I'm not, and this honestly seems like the sort of help I need.
21:39 diana_coman BingoBoingo: there is this striking disconnect in that when it comes to writing-for-qntra (and *strictly*, only that), you seem to be both productive and quite self-directed without any trouble; on other sides (like pizarro), it seemed more fitful/hit and miss (and with wide discrepancy too); on yet other parts it's like a huge block and/or going round about it.
21:40 BingoBoingo It strikes me that it is as though I have some sort of blinders like a horse.
21:42 diana_coman BingoBoingo: well, each and every person is themselves for sure; what is this "special" supposed to be more than that?
21:43 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I suspect finding myself on a certain list year after year has been feeding a pernicious, self-protecting/defeating part of the ego.
21:44 diana_coman that list starts sounding more and more like the list-of-doom, huh.
21:45 BingoBoingo diana_coman: It does.
21:48 BingoBoingo I would like to start confronting my flaws in an organized way, becoming productive and escaping my worn schtick as a one-trick pony
21:50 diana_coman BingoBoingo: while you've been around and active (very visibly active, even!) for a long time really, I still can't quite put together a very clear picture of where you really are and why - in part possibly because of my relative lack of fit re journalism, in part because of the jumps/fits, not sure if there aren't any other parts too.
21:51 diana_coman BingoBoingo: why is qntra such a great fit for you and why is ~nothing else able to fit the same?
21:52 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I came in early but shy, maybe I ought to do something on the biography.
21:52 BingoBoingo As to why Qntra seems so much easier than everything else...
21:54 BingoBoingo There's a lot of overlap in who/what I don't like in the world and who/what the republic doesn't like. Still as experience, recent and otherwise has shown... that's not a very strong tie on its own despite being an oft repeated trope.
21:57 diana_coman BingoBoingo: you know, that's actually an interesting bit - I can almost say more about what you do NOT like than I can say about what you DO like; and the trouble with not-likes is that they are indeed not productive by nature; they can work as a sort of productive only once-removed (aka destroy/clear up/make space/maybe even motivate others to rebuild but not directly).
21:59 BingoBoingo Despite being loud and appearing in the occasional photograph, I don't know that I've ever been challenged enough on the shyness.
22:01 diana_coman BingoBoingo: how does this shyness apply here?
22:02 diana_coman (and good god, what's with you and shyness people??)
22:03 BingoBoingo It seems to be part of the Anglotarded problem pushed by the environment. My ancestors were the rustic sort of Northern Europeans and Germans that were brough over to fill in the middle west when it wasn't quite such a new world.
22:06 diana_coman BingoBoingo: eh, for starters do stop finding excuses for whatever it is; that has never ever helped anyone - and not for lack of being thoroughly tried, lol.
22:06 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Alright
22:06 whaack diana_coman: There is nothing additional I wish to discuss regarding that msg other than what to do with my additional ~20 hours per week that will become available once my contract is done.
22:07 diana_coman fwiw, it's not like I don't know what being shy means/how it works; but it's a rather...younger age thing, hm.
22:07 diana_coman whaack: how do you define opportunity cost?
22:08 diana_coman BingoBoingo: back to the issue at hand - how/why do you say shyness applies there/in what way? as I don't quite get it.
22:08 diana_coman I mean: you talk & have been talking in the chans, relatively all right, kept that blog more or less; didn't seem to visibly shy away from conversation etc.
22:09 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I guess it comes in with not knowing how to talk about myself.
22:09 BingoBoingo Or at least with not knowing how to talk about myself in a civilized, adult manner.
22:10 diana_coman that sounds more likely and for that matter less to do with shyness, more to do with lack of ...practice with civilized, adult conversations, quite a different thing.
22:11 BingoBoingo That's the sort of connection I'm having trouble making for myself.
22:13 whaack diana_coman: The difference between what one has gained for some decision and what would would have gained for the best possible decision.
22:13 diana_coman what I don't quite see (or not yet) is where and why it breaks in those places for you, hm.
22:14 diana_coman whaack: how do you figure out what you'd have gained "for the best possible decision"?
22:14 diana_coman and anyway, since you can figure out what that best possible decision is, why the hell wouldn't you ...go for it? lolz
22:16 diana_coman BingoBoingo: looking at your blog archive, it does strike as very btc-oriented with only occasional excursions in any you-territory
22:17 BingoBoingo diana_coman: That would be a fair assessment, maybe even understating it a bit.
22:18 diana_coman BingoBoingo: when you say you want to get out of this one-trick pony thing - do you mean generally or do you mean it Qntra-specific?
22:18 whaack diana_coman: Well the definition can still hold up even if you only learn what was the best possible decision retroactively. But I think the problem with using the concept of opportunity cost in the way I did is that opportunity cost doesn't have meaning unless one's comparing like things.
22:19 diana_coman whaack: the opportunity cost is the loss of *not choosing the other available options*; nothing to do with hypothetical (since it can't be anything other than hypothetical) "best"
22:19 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I mean I want to work on growing into a person who can do more than produce and edit stories for Qntra.
22:21 diana_coman whaack: putting it the simplest possible, if I ask you to choose between an apple and a pear, your opportunity cost if you choose the apple is that pear, not some "best fruit"
22:22 diana_coman BingoBoingo: sounds sensible as in wanting to grow into a full, healthy person, sure.
22:23 whaack diana_coman: Right, but if you offer me an apple, a pear, or two pears, and I pick the apple, then my opportunity cost is a pair of pears, right? I think I see your point though.
22:24 diana_coman whaack: the opportunity cost is everything you didn't get so technically speaking, it's 3 pears really.
22:25 diana_coman by choosing an apple, you gave up 3 pears; regardless of the fact that "oh, but I couldn't have gotten both the single pear and the pair of pears"; no matter.
22:28 whaack diana_coman: ok, the definition is more clear now.
22:29 diana_coman I suppose the attraction to consider "the best choice" is that yes, it makes it neat; but my trouble with it is the implicit assumption that you actually can evaluate *upfront* the actual benefit.
22:29 diana_coman whaack: the above being said, I should mention that I ~always quarelled with economists-with-diploma (despite even helping at some point my father write his MBA thesis, huh).
22:30 BingoBoingo diana_coman: And with respect to Qntra and learning to script and navigate the command line, I could use help targeting which part of the problem tree I should be attacking and how to not let trying to eat the whole tree at once monopolize my attention..
22:30 diana_coman so it might well be that my definition for opportunity cost is not entirely fitting the classics or something.
22:32 diana_coman whaack: at any rate, the thing that started this - do you see that remote job as the thing you lose ie your opportunity cost?
22:34 diana_coman BingoBoingo: hm, re qntra at this stage the trouble seems to be deeper in that it's unclear to me to what extent you have made some plans - not as definitive "recipes" - but as "I know what I'm going to *do* and therefore it it turns out it's not working, what I'll change"
22:35 whaack heh I concentrated in economics at MIT. I *really* checked out of those classes and I do not think that was a mistake. (One history of finance class professor gave a timeline of bitcoin that included "satoshi discovered" (as hoaxtoshi))
22:39 diana_coman whaack: I have to admit that the economics teacher entirely lost my attention the moment they re-arranged some formula and insisted that it was *a different formula*; but that aside, my quarrels there go deeper, lolz.
22:42 diana_coman BingoBoingo: are you specifically looking atm for fine-grained direction on those scripts?
22:43 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I'm not sure if the problems I'm hitting are of fine or coarse grain.
22:44 BingoBoingo diana_coman: You do have a point on the deeper problem. In the early days of Qntra, cazalla and I would egg each other on and push each other to do all sorts of things to see that sticks, but we did it through the now unseemly channel of private irc messages.
22:44 diana_coman BingoBoingo: I meant more re the direction aka micro-management if you prefer.
22:45 diana_coman BingoBoingo: what sorts of things did you try at that time, anyway? (I wasn't even quite aware of specific attempts, huh)
22:45 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Having played with awk and pipes for a few days, I don't suspect I'll require particularly micro-scale management.
22:46 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Back them we could reliably bait traffic from reddit, and other social media venues.
22:47 diana_coman BingoBoingo: did that ever translate in any contributors or at least enquiries in that vein?
22:48 BingoBoingo diana_coman: It's hard to say that far back. It might have brought in whaack and some other folks at the periphery.
22:48 MrMeseekx BingoBoingo: I have been playing with pipes and sed all day trying to make the crawler as specified. :D
22:50 whaack diana_coman: No, I don't see it as the opportunity cost. I very much want to be doing something else with my time. I see saltmines as a drag that I *must do* but it is possible that is not the case and I can stop for a while or forever once I'm done with this contract.
22:50 jfw "No one user matters more than another" - first response from musl list :D
22:51 diana_coman MrMeseekx: but you see, you do what you do what you'd have done anyway essentially and otherwise expect/hope it willl somehow be also what is needed/useful; that's a terribly poor strategy and one with documented horrible outcomes.
22:51 diana_coman jfw: aahhaha, do cite it in #t too, for the record if for nothing else.
22:51 BingoBoingo diana_coman: The intial push to build QNtra by attacking the GAW miners scam did draw leaks http://qntra.net/2015/04/garza-friends-additional-emails-detailed/
22:53 BingoBoingo The attack on GAW built momentum that kept Qntra relevant through the hardfork wars.
22:53 diana_coman whaack: there is no must in that sense, no; what you *must* do is to make sure your effort and time works for *you* and esp for you in the long term; the exact form of that however can never be a must in that way, no.
22:54 MrMeseekx diana_coman: I enjoy doing it tho.
22:55 diana_coman BingoBoingo: so listen, do yourself a favour for starters, trawl those pms or whatever and write up a summary with what you 2 tried and what worked and what didn't, in what way, etc; write up somewhere in clear also what your current script does and what/where you're stuck + why; I honestly couldn't quite follow at that level of detail from the chans only.
22:56 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Thank you. I'll get to work.
22:56 diana_coman MrMeseekx: that I'm sure you do; did you notice the topic in #trilema? maybe figure out what it means, as it's basically speaking straight to you there.
23:00 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-18#1018635 - btw, MrMeseekx why won't that friend come in, register a key and say hi? and all the others for that matter, as you can see, you survived unharmed.
23:00 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-18 15:19:07 MrMeseekx: I have a chat group with some friends, and one of them introduced us about trilema long time ago and is always talking about itand sending links and the logs when something happens. So we are kind of always watching the affairs of the republic.
23:03 MrMeseekx diana_coman: Yeah, time is gone. I just feel the need to solve the problem as it is stated there, it is there, i wanna solve it.
23:04 diana_coman jfw: you know, this musl adventure of yours turned out quite instructive since there you go, that "no user matters more than another" thrown back at reflex-speed (and just as obviously ignoring all your carefully crafted message) is quite what seasoned engineers means by now.
23:06 MrMeseekx diana_coman: oh, my friend did that and didn't survive. :p
23:06 MrMeseekx But insists all the time in all of us should come and registrer a key and try to prove if we are human.
23:06 diana_coman MrMeseekx: so you are utterly vulnerable to a ddos-by-stated-problems attack? lolz; the unreflecting wanna-solve-it can turn out very sour.
23:07 diana_coman MrMeseekx: ahaha, is that the code-solver-from-under-the-bed?
23:07 diana_coman I was rather surprised at the recent canada-based popularity, lolz.
23:08 diana_coman MrMeseekx: he didn't *want* to survive, what can one do.
23:08 MrMeseekx diana_coman: yeah.... i bit the bait.
23:09 diana_coman MrMeseekx: did he put it as ... a problem to solve?
23:10 MrMeseekx diana_coman: Bingo call for a script? Well, it looked like a problem to solve.
23:10 diana_coman but you know, even better than learning from when *you* are wrong, is when you learn from when someone *else* was wrong so that you don't ...repeat the same mistakes at least; just saying here.
23:10 diana_coman MrMeseekx: neah, the bait to come here (where horrible things happen!!!!1!!)
23:11 MrMeseekx diana_coman: LOL, I'll try to die not.
← 2020-02-17 | 2020-02-19 → ↑

Random(ossasepia) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code

Theme: Light | Dark | System Default