Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-02-09 | 2020-02-11 → ↓
00:01 diana_coman and for any newcomers and log readers: please register first a key with deedbot (see the guide: http://www.eulorum.org/Account_Setup) as otherwise it's unlikely you'll get voiced in here.
~ 35 minutes ~
00:37 jfw well that was fun!
~ 33 minutes ~
01:10 BingoBoingo jfw: These were a lot more common at one point
~ 17 minutes ~
01:27 whaack huh what problem does ChanServ have with ave1
01:42 lobbes http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-09#1017968 << oy, I was out today during that time and neglected to let you know ahead of time. I'ma slap a big ass sticky note on my wall so I don't do this in the future
01:42 ericbot Logged on 2020-02-09 19:17:37 diana_coman: lobbes: you around?
01:42 lobbes in any case, I'm gonna get my review done now
01:42 lobbes (looks like I missed some drama in #o as well..)
01:43 lobbes well, "drama". I guess IRC-rando rain shower is more apt
01:54 billymg d41r walks onto someone else's private property and starts spewing nonsense under the guise of "asking questions" and "collaborating with code" to "innovate". is politely, and with great patience, told how to *actually* join and participate. continues to spew belligerent nonsense, is kickbanned... "stop bullying me!!11"
01:55 billymg at first i thought extremely dense, now suspect bored troll. sad either way i suppose
~ 26 minutes ~
02:21 BingoBoingo billymg: Probably both
02:31 feedbot http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/ejb-review-week-7-feb-3-feb-9/ << Young Hands Club -- ejb review: week 7 (Feb 3 - Feb 9)
~ 58 minutes ~
03:29 feedbot http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/wh-review-for-week-17-feb-3rd-feb-9th/ << Young Hands Club -- WH Review For Week 17 (Feb 3rd - Feb 9th)
03:40 whaack diana_coman: EOD Report: Spent my day working on my review/plan. As described in my review I went through all my previous plans/reviews and took notes.
03:41 feedbot http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/222/ << Young Hands Club -- WH Plan For Week 18 (Feb 10th - Feb 16th)
~ 2 hours 29 minutes ~
06:11 feedbot http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/jfw-review-week-of-3-feb-2020/ << Young Hands Club -- JFW review, week of 3 Feb 2020
~ 19 minutes ~
06:30 feedbot http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/jfw-plan-week-of-10-feb-2020/ << Young Hands Club -- JFW plan, week of 10 Feb 2020
06:36 * jfw in after the late buzzer again. Even worked on them earlier in the day too, but I dunno, couldn't muster the urgency. Review seems on the superficial side too.
~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~
07:54 diana_coman jfw: why is it *urgency* that you are looking for?
07:57 diana_coman whaack: more importantly is whether it was time well spent, you know? how about you switch a bit those EOD to note each day something that went well and why, something that didn't go well and why, a (be it small) change you'll make going forward to increase the "went well" parts and decrease the others?
08:01 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-09#1018139 - I could see it as BingoBoingo says, "both", but tbh I still think it's just misplaced dedication&investment really.
08:01 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-09 22:07:59 billymg: at first i thought extremely dense, now suspect bored troll. sad either way i suppose
08:04 diana_coman come to think of it, that would even fit both there too, heh.
08:05 diana_coman yeah, seriously, why does ChanServ not like you, ave1 ?
~ 5 hours 24 minutes ~
13:30 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-09#1018133 - myeah, do that; lobbes , you asked for this standing meeting, don't you want/need it anymore or what?
13:30 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-09 21:54:37 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-09#1017968 << oy, I was out today during that time and neglected to let you know ahead of time. I'ma slap a big ass sticky note on my wall so I don't do this in the future
13:30 ericbot Logged on 2020-02-09 19:17:37 diana_coman: lobbes: you around?
~ 3 hours 38 minutes ~
17:08 feedbot http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/10/ossasepia-m/ << Ossa Sepia -- #ossasepia +m
~ 1 hours 52 minutes ~
19:00 whaack diana_coman: I think the time was well spent. Refreshing advice given is necessary after 17 weeks and I uncovered some tasks that are simple yet important (mirroring the WOT) that I had forgotten about / missed.
19:01 whaack diana_coman: The new EOD plan looks good.
19:09 whaack diana_coman: I have a pile of dead tree to pick from for my next book. I can type up the list of all the titles or post a picture of the shelf. Currently I am considering Voltaire's Candide as translated by Donald Frame.
~ 26 minutes ~
19:36 diana_coman whaack: ha! but yes, Voltaire's Candide sounds good; just you know, for starters, be a bit more cautious esp when reading classics ie you don't know what you don't know and they are... how to put this, way older than you and still read for some reasons, you know?
19:39 whaack diana_coman: noted, I am maybe blind to some of the meaning but I am not blind to the state of being blind. I can hear the whoosh as that meaning flies over my head.
19:41 diana_coman whaack: what sort of thing did you do in school re literature anyway?
19:41 diana_coman I have no idea what/how does US school do that (though I DO hope it...does have such lessons, huh)
19:47 whaack diana_coman: Hm well I can take the time to try to really think back and create a list of the classes I took and the books I read. But I remember that we mostly read contemporary American literature: To Kill A Mocking Bird, Catcher in The Rye, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and Of Mice and Men are the first titles that come to mind.
19:47 diana_coman whaack: beyond concrete meaning, the part to which you gave at least the impression of blindness is essentially the wider context (and as a consequence what and why and when is appropriate since yeah, that's what context does); hence my question above, trying to figure out what you are used to as approach and what you know of it anyway.
19:48 diana_coman whaack: my question was more re *how* did you read them aka what does "literature class" mean in the US?
19:48 diana_coman (or whatever it's called, I don't even know the name used).
19:49 diana_coman jfw, dorion how's it going with those presentations?
19:50 diana_coman whaack: basically: what did a usual assignment ask for? what discussion/what else was done in class? what do you consider/think you got from it all, if anything?
19:51 whaack For middle school (up until your 13) they called the relevant class "English" class. Then in High School there is a series of classes that meet the "English class requirement" each having individual names: "AP English Literature" and "Creative Non-Fiction" are two course titles I remember
19:53 diana_coman creative... non-fiction? I'm almost afraid to ask what that is, lol; what is it supposed to be?
19:53 jfw diana_coman: I haven't started on presentation work yet today. Was about to get into responding to your points of this morning, then blog; but perhaps the blog should go later, knowing how I tend to slip.
19:53 whaack diana_coman: Generally there's a book that the class reads together over the period of 2 weeks - 2 months. You're assigned to read to a certain page. Along the way writing assignments of all sorts are given. Also along the way the class sits in a circle and discusses some part of the book
19:54 whaack Creative non-fiction was a class where we read auto biographies and memoirs and wrote our own
19:55 diana_coman jfw: I'd say presentation gets higher priority for now so focus on that, even if you skip one day of blog; what you don't want is to end up doing the presentation on Wed for Thu; but do make sure you use the time effectively, the higher priority doesn't mean "can therefore drag feet longer on it", ahem.
19:55 jfw quite right.
19:56 diana_coman whaack: ah, the fiction is that memoirs and biographies are non-fiction! I see; lolz.
19:56 whaack aha
19:57 diana_coman but come to think of it, writing "own biography and memoir" in highschool, good god.
19:57 diana_coman whaack: so the class consisted in ...reading in group? what?
19:57 diana_coman meant: or what?
19:58 whaack diana_coman: reading out loud in a circle was really common
19:58 diana_coman bwahahaa
19:58 whaack each kid gets a paragraph and rotating
19:59 jfw http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-10#1018148 - it's urgency that gets me moving on reviews at the last chance, but yeah, mustering something more internal would be much nicer.
19:59 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-10 04:06:38 diana_coman: jfw: why is it *urgency* that you are looking for?
19:59 diana_coman yes, uhm, that was primary to make sure everyone CAN read (7yo to 11yo) and at most one more year afterwards (for reading with proper intonation etc).
20:00 diana_coman and uhm, that reading to a certain paragraph - does that mean they did NOT expect each kid to read the whole book??
20:00 whaack well everyone is supposed to read along of course, it's not like they only had 1 book and passed it in a circle
20:00 diana_coman whaack: no,no, I meant at home, lolz.
20:00 whaack although i'm sure it'll come to that some day lol
20:01 diana_coman neah, they'll get directly some shortened version; after all iirc they already did some "cleaned up" Twain and similar horrors.
20:02 diana_coman uhm, I never really thought my highschool literature classes were any good (mainly because I was in heavy-CS class so kind of the weird one interested in literature too + fewer hours) but by comparison, I start to appreciate it more, lol.
20:03 whaack There were some classes I thought were good, but of course was in no position to judge. Not all of them did the reading in circle shenanagins at least.
20:04 diana_coman whaack: so what did you get out of those good classes?
20:13 diana_coman whaack: by the sounds of it you should probably read up first on some literary theory and criticism but now ofc figuring out good English refs for it is a different matter.
20:13 diana_coman hanbot_abroad: maybe you know ^ ?
20:15 * BingoBoingo saw the circle thing persist into University. As class sizes shrank it turned into something called "The liberal arts arc"
20:16 BingoBoingo Because... moving the chairs to close the circle was more work
20:16 whaack diana_coman: Well, we read some books I enjoyed - some I recall : Wuthering Heights, The Count of Monte Cristo, Animal Farm, and Of Mice and Men. Then I improved my writing by writing/revising essays. What I enjoyed most though was the class discussions - specifically I enjoyed when the teacher put some topic to debate in the class and the students had to take a side and use evidence from the book.
20:16 whaack aha "the liberal arts arc"
20:16 diana_coman whaack: otoh I guess you really can't go wrong reading Aristotle's Poetics
20:17 whaack diana_coman: should I put that on the top of my list?
20:17 diana_coman whaack: myeah, but that still sounds so pedestrian essentially that you end up precisely with the sort of thing you wrote in that article of yours.
20:17 diana_coman whaack: yeah, put it at the top and see how it goes.
20:18 whaack k.
20:20 whaack diana_coman: aha yeah I see that now, the topic written on the blackboard that sparked the article was "Is Odysseus really a good leader?"
20:21 diana_coman ....
20:21 diana_coman poor blackboard.
20:22 diana_coman but seriously, that's "social indoctrination class, 1.0.1",what literature.
20:23 diana_coman was odysseus a good commie too?
20:23 diana_coman lolz.
20:23 whaack ahaha
20:24 whaack I had one teacher, Mr. Mott, who would assign a kid to lead the class discussion and then promptly fall asleep
20:25 whaack he would wake from his slumber to make certain statements like, "what's the point? none of you kids get laid anyways, this play [A Streetcar Named Desire] has no meaning to you"
20:25 diana_coman ahaha, he had a point!
20:25 whaack yeah come to think of it he may have been the best teacher
20:26 diana_coman BingoBoingo: lmao re circle; schools in RO still had those fixed 2-people benches so no chance of any circles, arcs and other such things, lol.
20:27 diana_coman BingoBoingo: but for that matter, can you help re http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-10#1018197 perhaps?
20:27 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-10 16:25:45 diana_coman: whaack: by the sounds of it you should probably read up first on some literary theory and criticism but now ofc figuring out good English refs for it is a different matter.
20:28 BingoBoingo diana_coman: The worst resource allocation I saw in US Universities was when I was repeatedly assigned to TA logic discussion sections in... An equipped Chemistry lab.
20:28 diana_coman well, it can make for ...explosive illustrations of logical errors!
20:29 BingoBoingo I did enjoy that every wall in the room was a chalkboard.
20:29 diana_coman I'd say make best use of provided environment!
20:29 * BingoBoingo thinking of texts that might be helpful for whaack
20:30 jfw I've been enjoying this thread; hadn't heard of Aristotle's Poetics. Most I'm remembering of literary theory from high school was archetypes and heroic cycle
20:30 diana_coman we had physics classes in the biology lab and biology classes in the chemistry lab and it didn't make any difference since neither actually used any lab material even when they matched (it happened at times!) the topic with the lab, so...
20:31 diana_coman jfw: I was even thinking you might add to/enjoy it but ...you have a presentation to make!!
20:31 diana_coman lolz
20:31 jfw heh, yes, books will still be on shelf tomorrow.
20:32 diana_coman jfw: aha; still, glad to hear you enjoyed the thread anyway.
20:35 jfw diana_coman: on musl outreach, one question coming to mind about the initial approach is how to treat that "we"? Most likely they have no idea who I am, and no idea what they might've seen of tmsr
20:36 whaack the STATE REQUIRED labs for biology were extra lulzy. How do you explain evolution to kids? You make put beads in one bowl and have 2 other empty bowls and you play a game where one kid has a chopstick and the other kid has a spoon and you compete to see who can put more beads into their bowl in 30 seconds and then you write a lab report comparing the spoons/chop sticks to birds' beaks.
20:36 diana_coman jfw: so give concrete examples and links and that will clarify the "we" implicitly
20:36 diana_coman starting with your gales (and the we there is you and dorion ), then e.g. ave1's work
20:37 diana_coman jfw: you set the links in place and let them ask/figure out/remain stupid, what
20:37 diana_coman you don't need to give them a full lecture on ~everything just to state your point.
20:37 jfw trb "rotor" comes to mind too re musl usage. Ok, makes sense
20:38 diana_coman so give rotor link too, sure; you don't even need to give the names for any of it, just say gales (link), rotor (link) and they can follow and see what we etc.
20:39 diana_coman lobbes: awww, poor ericbot now is surely out of sync, sorry.
20:41 diana_coman jfw: I suppose you can even avoid the "we" if you are iffy about it as such, and just state tmsr uses musl intensively (eg x,y,z with links) etc.
20:42 whaack https://www.nysedregents.org/livingenvironment/818/lenv82018-ltexamw.pdf (The exam that follows said labs. Can't make it passed q 1 before the 'subtle' propaganda begins "Which human activity most directly causes a significant increase in the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?" )
20:43 diana_coman jfw: you know, I don't mind it if you call it "pleasure reading" but it makes for a lot esp in your context there, lolz.
20:44 BingoBoingo whaack diana_coman: Probably as close as any Enlish language text coming out of the US is going to come, https://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/jcertain.html
20:44 jfw diana_coman: a lot of what?
20:44 diana_coman whaack: ah, this CO2 madness is now in full swing indeed; I have to look *very* carefully even at books for small kids
20:44 diana_coman jfw: a lot of potential fun/laughter*
20:44 whaack diana_coman: you're indoctrinating them!!11
20:45 diana_coman BingoBoingo: OUR judgments concerning the worth of things, big or little, depend on the feelings the things arouse in us - say what??
20:46 diana_coman whaack: I am? there might be some peanut gallery I'm not following there, lol.
20:47 diana_coman BingoBoingo: I guess I see your point. It's painful to read no matter where I try to excavate even a single sentence.
20:47 BingoBoingo diana_coman: It's rather an indictment of the space isn't it.
20:47 diana_coman poor, poor words.
20:47 dorion http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-10#1018169 - I've made progress, but not yet done. I've found myself doing more journaling than I had expected, which has slowed down the process of getting the presentation and other tasks done, but I'm okay with it because it seems like I'm processing unexamined habits that were previously holding me back.
20:47 ossabot Logged on 2020-02-10 16:01:57 diana_coman: jfw, dorion how's it going with those presentations?
20:48 BingoBoingo Aristotle's Poetics seems a better place to start than any work born in English
20:48 whaack diana_coman: i'm mocking the 'anyone who deviates from the party's curriculum' is religious nut or w/e
20:49 diana_coman dorion: that sounds like it will pay off by itself anyway; and you still have enough time for the pressing presentation so it works.
20:49 diana_coman whaack: usually that line goes with "it's the enemy", they don't have that much sophistication.
20:53 dorion diana_coman yeah, that's my thought. Now that I think about it, it makes sense too as a logical next step in the progression from last week. I will admit that I was a bit down last night that I'd missed the deadline I'd set and allowed that to snowball into posting the update for the day as a comment. sometime this morning through the journaling I realized that was treating the plan as a
20:53 dorion striaghtjacket.
20:54 dorion straitjacket*
21:00 diana_coman dorion: aha; and seriously, not the case to be down at all there, don't be silly.
21:08 diana_coman dorion: and do keep up posting those updates for the day as comments, just every day; if anything, probably even more so when feeling down - you might find out in response that there isn't anything to feel down about.
21:15 diana_coman BingoBoingo: in other sads, I can offer as small match to your found masterpiece there, this bit here: "25th Anniversary Edition of Terry Eagleton's classic introduction to literary theory First published in 1983, and revised in 1996 to include material on developments in feminist and cultural theory"
21:16 diana_coman so yeah, I'll stick to Aristotle, thank you.
21:16 dorion diana_coman yeah, thanks, will do.
21:20 BingoBoingo diana_coman: William James is as close as North America got to having a philosopher. I thought for a very long time the problem was John Dewey aggressively abusing the pragmatism to Pantsuit that was the problem, but... the problems are deeper. The well was well poisoned no later than Emerson.
21:26 BingoBoingo James' attacks on the "Saint Louis Hegelians" survive in my esteem mostly through my not having the time or inclination to revisit my memories (and my old notebooks not making the luggage cut). Other than that... His prose has "New England Disease" infecting it throughout, and his self-experiments in neuroscience seem to have had lingering effects outside his essays explicitly discussing them.
21:28 whaack diana_coman: right, they don't have the sophistication but even if they did it would be disadvantageous for them to phrase it like that - "it's the enemy" may spark interest while "eh, religious rubish" [ossasepia.com/2019/11/24/some-questions-for-early-mornings/?b=Why+do+they&e=!#select][is a useful phrase to discredit something for young minds]
21:29 diana_coman BingoBoingo: ahaha, that sounds like you'd enjoy writing an article on it really; (and the resulting article sounds like a fun read at the very least).
21:31 diana_coman whaack: thing with the young minds - when young but on their own so teens rather than 7yo - is that they'll naturally swing against the latest thing so not necessarily "won't spark interest"; depends which young you talk about really, it's a matter of place & time, not of "young".
21:31 diana_coman rather: against the *last* thing; towards the "latest" thing.
21:32 * diana_coman will be back tomorrow.
21:35 BingoBoingo diana_coman: It's one I'll start passively jotting notes for, because it will require a slow bake to get the relevant point. The conclusion as to how I latched on to the fellow's writing is rather concise: "Of the American philosophers fashionable in Southern Illinois University's Department of Philosophy, he was treated most marginally for being the least overtly pantsuit. I found this unfortunate. Still more unfortunate was the
21:35 BingoBoingo narrowness of the discussion space omitting or glossing over better thinkers, not in English."
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