#ossasepia | 2019-12-15

Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans

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13:33	diana_coman	as I finally realise that there are a few names I don't even know: lobbes, what's the J in ejb for? dorion_road, what's the M in rmd for?
		~ 1 hours 39 minutes ~
15:13	dorion_road	diana_coman michael, robinson michael dorion.
15:19	lobbes	diana_coman: james
15:20	lobbes	diana_coman: btw speaking of names, how do I properly pronounce your last name? I've always assumed I knew but never confirmed it
15:23	diana_coman	dorion_road: thanks.
15:23	diana_coman	lobbes: thanks; and heh, you should prolly wonder how to properly pronounce even the first if you are after properly pronouncing, lol.
15:25	diana_coman	coman is quite easy/as it seems really - as long as you don't introduce in there any spurious l (colman) or the like (as English-speakers seem to be sorely tempted to do); hah, there's even a youtube on it, look at that, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5NT0oC_oxY
15:28	diana_coman	lobbes: what languages do you speak ?
15:29	diana_coman	fwiw the switch to diana was mainly to spare the English going red in the face trying but failing to pronounce irina; at least for diana they have some reasonable idea that works.
		~ 21 minutes ~
15:51	diana_coman	hello DKordic
15:54	DKordic	Greetings, diana_coman and everyone else.
15:55	diana_coman	what brings you here, DKordic ?
15:56	DKordic	I enjoyed Your blog. It was inspiring.
15:56	diana_coman	oh hey, nice to hear that!
15:56	diana_coman	what did you read/like?
15:56	DKordic	Let say loper-os.org the most :) .
15:56	diana_coman	heh, that would be asciilifeform's blog!
15:58	diana_coman	DKordic: what are you interested in?
15:58	BingoBoingo	DKordic: I'll let asciilifeform know when I see him in a few minutes, we're about to head out for some tourism
15:58	jfw	sounds like quite some adventuring over there BingoBoingo, enjoy!
15:59	DKordic	Excellent. Enjoy.
15:59	DKordic	As we can see I am a bit slow :) .
15:59	diana_coman	take your time.
16:02	diana_coman	lobbes: did I answer more than you asked for? lolz.
16:06	DKordic	I still have to think about it. As some say ""it restored my faith in humanity!"" It can be contrasted with http://dev.to/ and even worse http://medium.com/, but those should not even be mentioned, so I apologize ;) . ""The least we know about them the better. ""
16:12	diana_coman	DKordic: heh, I actually did a brief dive into dev.to at some point - it saved at least one person
16:12	ossabot	Logged on 2019-08-11 11:57:46 diana_coman: shrysr: eh, you realise that it's because I wasted some time in that shithole, precisely trying to see if there was anyone lost in there
16:13	diana_coman	DKordic: do you have a blog?
16:15	diana_coman	knowing stuff even about shit and shitholes can still have its uses even if it's indeed not a very pleasant way to spend one's time, sure.
16:15	DKordic	Not yet. I am strugling with a diary (ChangeLog if You like), a private blog.
16:15	diana_coman	DKordic: why private ?
16:15	DKordic	Yes, I saw Your thought about dev.to.
16:16	DKordic	It has to start somewhere. I don't have much to say publicly (yet).
16:17	diana_coman	DKordic: eh, that's never true, you know? look here, you are saying something publicly, you know?
16:17	DKordic	:3
16:17	diana_coman	don't be shy, it's not to your advantage really; and there's nothing to lose for speaking publicly, quite the opposite.
16:18	DKordic	What are most straightforward ways to set up a blog?
16:20	diana_coman	hmmm, that straightforward part is not-all-that-well defined, as it depends on what you find straightforward
16:21	diana_coman	DKordic: how are you with computers, if you don't mind me asking?
16:22	DKordic	Yes, exactly. It was a sily question.
16:22	DKordic	Just an enthusiast.
16:22	diana_coman	DKordic: eh, don't beat your questions up right from the start, let them grow first :))
16:23	DKordic	Or more of a gambler ;) .
16:23	diana_coman	DKordic: an ethusiastic gambler?
16:24	DKordic	I wanted to say, successful as a gambler.
16:24	*	DKordic [ROFL]
16:25	diana_coman	DKordic: and what does that mean more precisely? lol
16:26	diana_coman	re blog, the way it goes whether you find it "straightforward" or not is to get yourself a server (even if it's a cheap virtual machine only, to start with), install mpwp above and then get going; there are a few guides around to help you along, you can ask and people will help, it should be doable.
16:27	diana_coman	iirc some providers even have profiles for VM ie you can get it directly with php and apache and mysql installed so you need only stand up mpwp
16:27	diana_coman	but then choose centos 6 so you have reasonable versions of everything or it'll be a huge pain.
16:28	diana_coman	DKordic: do you mind if I ask you how old you are?
16:28	DKordic	s/successful/as successful/
16:29	DKordic	Born: 1991
16:29	diana_coman	cool, thanks.
16:30	DKordic	I am currently studying http://www.t3x.org/clc/index.html and similar. What do You think about that website setup?
16:31	diana_coman	DKordic: it's not a good one for interacting with people and most of the benefit of having a blog/writing publicly is exactly the interaction with people
16:31	DKordic	I see.
16:31	diana_coman	I get it, it's very "cool" and hacky and good ole' green on black, sure.
16:34	diana_coman	DKordic: don't fall for the "recluse" and "working alone against the evil world" or something like that, it's not worth it.
16:34	DKordic	I will give my best.
16:35	diana_coman	DKordic: what do you want to do with Lambda Calculus that you are studying that and similar?
16:43	DKordic	Not to waste so much of my effort in daily use of computers.
16:44	diana_coman	DKordic: what's your daily use of computers about? (ie what do you do with them?)
16:53	DKordic	Only practice programming :3 . ""Art for the sake of art"", or more precisely ""LiSP"" :D .
16:54	diana_coman	DKordic: well, I enjoyed functional programming so I can see the appeal but seriously now, what's wrong with doing something ...useful too, hm?
16:55	diana_coman	I'll get to call that "art for the snake of art" - fixed it for you :D
16:57	DKordic	OK What would be something useful for a start? In other words what should I ame for?
16:57	DKordic	s/ame/aim/
16:58	diana_coman	DKordic: there's about a ton of work to be done around here, from tmsr-os to eulora game, computer graphics and anything under the sun; the question is more along the lines of ...who are you really ? :)
17:00	diana_coman	DKordic: you should register a key with deedbot too to ...start being someone around here anyway; see http://deedbot.org/help.html
17:03	diana_coman	DKordic: know also that you do not have to wait to "be ready" or "know X and Y" or something like that; the sooner you dive in, the faster you'll advance (provided you do make the right decisions and put in the required work, true).
17:06	diana_coman	lobbes: seriously, what happened to you?
17:06	lobbes	http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013217 << not at all! I asked those q's right after I woke up and checked logs, then went about morning business. In retrospect, I oughta have said I was going afk
17:06	ericbot	Logged on 2019-12-15 16:06:12 diana_coman: lobbes: did I answer more than you asked for? lolz.
17:06	lobbes	(Then I saw you were engaged with DKordic; didn't want to interrupt the flow)
17:07	lobbes	http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013200 << aha okay, it turns out I was pretty close in my head somehow! ty
17:07	ericbot	Logged on 2019-12-15 15:29:15 diana_coman: coman is quite easy/as it seems really - as long as you don't introduce in there any spurious l (colman) or the like (as English-speakers seem to be sorely tempted to do); hah, there's even a youtube on it, look at that, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5NT0oC_oxY
17:07	*	lobbes ended up looking up both diana and irina via that same youtube source, and will admit to playing irina a few times before he could parse lol
17:07	lobbes	http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013201 << I am still ESL sadly. I've haphazardly been practicing both German and Spanish for about 4 years, but no serious study. fwiw I took French in high school, but I retained pretty much none of it (though I find that I did retain some of the general pronunciation rules of French, if that makes sense)
17:07	ericbot	Logged on 2019-12-15 15:31:35 diana_coman: lobbes: what languages do you speak ?
17:10	diana_coman	lobbes: well, at least the French pronunciation rules should have helped really; anyways, yes, you should have said something; don't just vanish like that.
17:11	lobbes	diana_coman: roger that. In the future I'll let you know before I vanish lol
17:11	diana_coman	as the Ro saying goes, "nu disparea ca magaru-n ceata" (~don't vanish like an ass in the fog)
17:11	diana_coman	so you know now.
17:12	*	lobbes read that translation first as "ass in the frog"
17:12	diana_coman	why not :))
17:12	diana_coman	lobbes: but seriously, not only "before vanish"; it's the good old "acknowledge stuff", ok?
17:13	lobbes	diana_coman: this I do understand. I will make sure to acknowledge
17:13	diana_coman	good.
17:14	diana_coman	DKordic: take your time as needed but also ask questions - still as needed.
17:15	DKordic	OK Thank You.
17:16	diana_coman	no problem at all.
		~ 23 minutes ~
17:40	whaack	diana_coman: When I start parking bots in other channels on other networks per your instructions on my review, would you like me to (1) ask whether or not the chan admins mind if the bot takes a seat in the room (2) place the bot in the room unannounced, but use a nick with 'bot' as a suffix (3) place the bot in the room with a nick that makes it appear human ?
17:43	diana_coman	whaack: hmmm, for the lolz I'd do 2 and log who/where/if kicks you out and after how long but for the practical side, I'd just go with 3 for starters; just set a timer ie don't join at the same time all channels or something; there's a bit more to this in that you should adapt it to get the full list of channels for a network, set a timer and then join them gradually.
17:43	diana_coman	I'm even curious whether/how many/where would try to engage anyway
17:43	diana_coman	also, set it on some VM, hopefully that's obvious.
17:44	whaack	diana_coman: yes the VM is obvious
17:44	whaack	especially given my pura vida internet (although I would put it on a VM regardless)
17:44	diana_coman	given how many nicks are anyway ~bots ie just linger there, I can't possibly see what would be a reasonable objection to the bot logging but then again, I don't expect much reasonable.
17:46	whaack	diana_coman: Do you have an objection to me sticking with digitalocean for this?
		~ 16 minutes ~
18:02	diana_coman	whaack: no, no objection; do you understand the goal of this?
18:04	whaack	diana_coman: my understanding is it is to look for individuals doing anything productive.
18:06	whaack	or maybe it could be phrased 'to look for rooms containing individuals doing something productive'
18:06	diana_coman	whaack: eh, there's very little chance/expectation of that and moreover that makes for a rather poor goal in itself because it fails to ensure you get something out of the activity itself no matter what the outcome (which is not predictable/under your control);
18:09	diana_coman	whaack: listen, the effort will be spent anyway, regardless of whether there are productive individuals anywhere to be found; therefore it should be structured upfront as what it is namely a systematic exploration of what is there;
18:10	diana_coman	it's not the idiotic "let us prove this theory" but the sane "let us explore and find out the state of the practice"
18:10	diana_coman	as a result, the systematic part is quite important
18:11	diana_coman	ie you want to make sure you cover (gradually, sure) all networks and all chans in a network + for a reasonably long time, if at all possible
18:11	diana_coman	collect all data and store it properly (so you know what is from where and when) & then proceed to analyse it and see what's there.
18:12	diana_coman	open-ended question really.
18:12	diana_coman	whaack: does the above make full sense?
18:12	whaack	diana_coman: yes
18:13	whaack	I see how my stated goal was closer to ~ "let us prove this theory"
18:13	diana_coman	if you need to/think it's useful, you can even launch a fleet of bots so they join different channels with different names or whatever, that part is entirely up to you.
18:14	diana_coman	what I want out of this is a systematic exploration of the irc space; proper data and then we see from there.
18:15	*	diana_coman will bbl
18:24	whaack	diana_coman: Understood. Having bots with different names seems like a necessary step since the search will be exhaustive, and network admins may kick a nick they see in every channel. In the same vain it'd be better to have a collection of different ip addrs that the bots were connecting from. Having a list of ips seems more difficult/expensive.
		~ 49 minutes ~
19:13	diana_coman	whaack: hmmm, not sure why exactly would they be bothered by a nick that is in every channel really? ie it's not spamming or anything so..?
19:14	diana_coman	that being said, the trouble is more that if there is such nonsense, it will not be neatly defined like that "in every channel" but some inane "oh, I saw this too many times" or something; perhaps it helps to set it up on some znc so it doesn't flicker much but other than that I'm not sure there's a lot you can do against nonsense as such.
19:15	diana_coman	I'd say give it first a go without bothering much about this and we find out at least if it is a problem in the first place.
19:15	diana_coman	if it turns out that there IS this problem, we can then decide what to do about it (there are plenty of solutions really).
19:21	whaack	diana_coman: Okay, I won't try to preemptively address these types of problems. I am not sure what you mean about 'setting up on some znc so it doesn't flicker.' Since my logbot fleet will run on a VM (and with something somewhere else checking to make sure the process is running / restarting it if it goes dead), I wouldn't understand the point of having the logbot fleet also connected via a bouncer.
19:25	diana_coman	ah, the checker should be enough, yes.

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