Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-12-10 | 2019-12-12 → ↓
00:28 jfw shrysr: you still tuned in here? How's that learning and search for new job going? You still on track to resurface after Christmas?
~ 2 hours 33 minutes ~
03:02 BingoBoingo jfw: Comment in you mod hopper
03:02 BingoBoingo *your
03:17 jfw BingoBoingo: ty, approved
~ 26 minutes ~
03:44 whaack diana_coman: EOD Report : Today was not that successful. I got 9.5 hours of saltmines done, but almost nothing else.
~ 3 hours 52 minutes ~
07:36 diana_coman whaack: and...why?
~ 6 hours 9 minutes ~
13:45 whaack diana_coman: It is painful to type the reason out. Essentially I let the worries of whether or not I will continue to see my lady from Sunday occupy my headspace.
13:55 diana_coman whaack: why worries to start with? ie want to see her, call her/go, wtf.
13:58 diana_coman and good that it's painful because seriously, worrying about, gah.
14:04 whaack diana_coman: I don't want to start filling the channel with the specifics of this, lol. but i'll say she ended her relationship with someone a few days prior to meeting and seems beat up about it. I find it best to give it some time before calling her and trying to go see her.
14:05 diana_coman if only stupidity was more painful while indulging in it than when admitting it after the fact.
14:06 diana_coman well, if you "find it best" then you don't "worry"; and no, I'd rather not fill the channel with any of this either but that starts with not wasting time "worrying".
14:09 diana_coman every time you start worrying about anything, do me a favour and tell yourself you're being an idiot.
14:11 whaack diana_coman: I knew immediately as I started worrying I was being an idiot. I did not have a good method to stop it.
14:13 diana_coman whaack: the best method to stop it is to DO something and preferably something difficult enough to not leave much space for idles worries.
14:16 diana_coman whaack: in fairness, an even better solution is to have something more serious to be worried about at least, if you must, there is that too.
14:21 whaack diana_coman: okay. I did try to keep myself busy, with saltmines work, which i guess is not important/difficult enough to take away my distracting thoughts.
14:23 whaack diana_coman: One concern is i wouldn't want to do anything I find important while I am distracted. I guess I need to find something difficult that is not too important. Like some manual labor house repair.
14:25 diana_coman the point is to do something where you can't *afford* to be distracted.
14:26 diana_coman but myeah, you always leave for yourself pleeeenty of slack because why not, all the time in the world and pura vida and all that.
14:29 diana_coman dunno, set yourself some idiocy tax : one satoshi per minute of "worry" and see for how long you can afford it, lolz.
14:31 whaack diana_coman: lol send an address
14:34 whaack one satoshi a minute though.. that allows for a lot of worrying
14:34 diana_coman myeah, this sort of thing has to be punishment rather than tax.
~ 2 hours 27 minutes ~
17:02 shrysr http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-08#1009447 << did so when suggested. I've read this one before. did not rem the author then. Depressing and instructive come to mind abt the story.
17:02 ossabot Logged on 2019-11-08 13:49:23 diana_coman: shrysr: possibly for you too ^
17:02 diana_coman how's it going, shrysr ?
17:03 shrysr http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012520 << I read the logs. buncha things going on atm.
17:03 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-10 20:36:33 jfw: shrysr: you still tuned in here? How's that learning and search for new job going? You still on track to resurface after Christmas?
17:04 shrysr diana_coman: hallo. lol. well.. its going on
17:08 diana_coman shrysr: mind giving an update as to where you are with the job hunt/change? or would you rather wait until after Christmas?
17:13 RubenSomsen whaack: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe.
17:13 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-10 10:22:55 whaack: RubenSomsen: I would not sleep well at night if my bitcoins were in an 'anyone-can-spend' address and I was relying on the mercy of the miner's enforcing some soft rule to keep them there.
17:15 shrysr diana_coman: I was gonna wait. but the short of it is that - got laid off with strong reccomendations fwiw, lmao. secured a remote DS project and did some ML :) .. just delivered it. Hopefully there is more from that. shifted to vancouver
17:16 diana_coman RubenSomsen: so you vouch for something based, essentially, on "the majority agrees (for now) it's so" ?
17:16 diana_coman shrysr: oh hey, not bad at all; and why wait, anyway?
17:17 diana_coman RubenSomsen: even "what I perceive as majority" really.
17:18 RubenSomsen diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012405 <<These were very helpful. One thing that caught my attention was the idea of a new world order where the poor won't receive a free handout and will have to find a way to be useful to the rich. Is that an idea with a lot of support here?
17:18 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-10 12:09:45 diana_coman: RubenSomsen: here, let me help you just a bit: http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/ http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/ http://trilema.com/2015/the-news-in-brief-hearn-is-a-shitstain-mp-is-right-fuck-reddit-love-satoshi/ http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/ ...
17:20 diana_coman RubenSomsen: for sure; I suppose you might want to read the take on universal franchise + consensus too, speaking of "majority consensus"
17:20 RubenSomsen diana_coman: No UTXO is secure if the majority does not agree. Tomorrow the majority can decide you can no longer spend your coins. Unlikely of course, but this is part of Bitcoin, like it or not.
17:21 diana_coman RubenSomsen: the point is: there's no "secure" based on "majority agrees"; fuck "majority" with a sharp stick.
17:22 RubenSomsen Your coins are only worth something if others value it. So the opinion of others matters. Bitcoin can be whatever you want it to be, but if nobody else agrees with you, your coins will not have value.
17:22 whaack RubenSomsen: From my experience 'the majority' that use segwit have their bitcoin client on auto-update to whatever the mods on /r/bitcoin or the owners of some github repo push out. From my experience if you probe a 'segwit user' with questions about segwit you'll quickly find they have absolutely no idea what segwit is about.
17:23 diana_coman RubenSomsen: no, not generally like that; people are not just numbers, you know? ie my bitcoins are worth something if *those I care to trade with* value them; not if "others" in general value it, fuck them.
17:23 diana_coman I care exactly 0 if the general "other" values my bitcoin (or my looks for that matter or my anything).
17:23 RubenSomsen whaack: I agree with you that that is not a good thing. People should not follow blindly, they should make informed decisions.
17:24 dorion_road http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-11#1012551 << are all nodes equal ? or do certain nodes owned by certain people carry more importance ?
17:24 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-11 13:21:25 RubenSomsen: whaack: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe.
17:24 diana_coman the important divide there is really that - people are not just interchangeable, equal, the same, how you want to call it.
17:25 RubenSomsen diana_coman: you are free to value whatever you want, but the utility of a coin that nobody wants is lower. To many people, me included, utility matters.
17:26 shrysr http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-11#1012555 << diana_coman: yea. I guess it is what it is and was not unpleasant, and funny in hindsight - but turning out to be good so far. job hunt is obv on. I might have another gig shaping up. gotta see.
17:26 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-11 13:24:23 diana_coman: shrysr: oh hey, not bad at all; and why wait, anyway?
17:26 diana_coman RubenSomsen: note I did not say "nobody", that's your addition; do you see the difference ?
17:28 RubenSomsen diana_coman: I was merely drawing an extreme to make a point. Replace "nobody" by "a subset" and the argument still holds.
17:28 diana_coman RubenSomsen: I don't know much about your background to put this in a way that speaks more easily to you but no, the argument does not hold like that, ever; there is no power in just numbers (hey, they are MANY and therefore IMPORTANT).
17:29 BingoBoingo RubenSomsen: The big lesson I took from the altcoin dramas 2012-present is that it takes folk that already have money to decide what gets value for their wanting it.
17:30 BingoBoingo RubenSomsen: Fellow who wrote this piece has since disappeared into the not tracked wastes it seems, but relevant http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/
17:32 RubenSomsen diana_coman: Perhaps you mean to say that many people can value something unimportant? I would agree with that. Over time these people will go broke and become unimportant themselves.
17:32 diana_coman shrysr: so how's Vancouver?
17:33 diana_coman RubenSomsen: I mean to say that what many people and moreover what generic, undistinguishable (ie yes, unimportant) people hallucinate that they value does *not matter* really.
17:35 RubenSomsen OK, yes, I guess what I said sounded like something has value because many people value it. That would definitely be incorrect circular reasoning.
17:37 diana_coman RubenSomsen: yes but do you see the link with your earlier statement re vouching for segwit ?
17:37 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-11 13:21:25 RubenSomsen: whaack: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe.
17:38 shrysr diana_coman: lmao again. its like a breath of actual air. Seeing a McDonalds after 1+ years had me grinning like an idiot for some inexplicable reason. Walking distance to a library.. mass fuckinnn transit! I drove down here from my retirement village in alberta. Through the freakin mountains in the winter... in a car i severely underestimated as it turned out.. that was both terrifying and beautiful.
17:41 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-11#1012578 - money does flow a certain way, yes; but this doesn't mean that those people were really important to start with, they were just as inconsequential in the beginning really; think of it this way: if you give tomorrow a fortune to a pig, does that make the pig's values important all of a sudden, you reckon?
17:41 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-11 13:40:45 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: Perhaps you mean to say that many people can value something unimportant? I would agree with that. Over time these people will go broke and become unimportant themselves.
17:41 RubenSomsen diana_coman: I'm not entirely sure what your view on segwit is. Do you want to hold non-segwit UTXOs only? Do you only want coins that don't have a history that involves a segwit output? Do you only follow a hard fork that does not contain segwit such as BCH?
17:41 diana_coman RubenSomsen: in a nutshell, I fully ignore segwit.
17:42 RubenSomsen OK, so the first then I guess. You can't fully ignore it because coins you receive may have a history with segwit.
17:42 diana_coman and I can't say I see any downside to this either, only positives really.
17:43 RubenSomsen There are some downsides such as higher fees and less fungibility, but I take your point that non-segwit outputs are more widely recognized by both old and new nodes.
17:44 diana_coman RubenSomsen: uhm, how do you reckon I can't ignore it? you know, I also ignore a WHOLE lot of other equally "majority use" stuff and with the same sort of happy benefits (eg https! javascript! windows!)
17:45 diana_coman shrysr: heh, so why not pics and blog about it?
17:45 diana_coman shrysr: but honestly, do yourself a favour and don't eat that pressed cardboard they sell as food at mcdonalds, ffs.
17:45 RubenSomsen You can of course ignore it, but what I meant is some of your coin history will be "tainted" by segwit, which is theoretically less secure if you think those are anyone-can-spend outputs.
17:46 whaack RubenSomsen: From my understanding to someone that ignores segwit that question translates to: would you be okay with receiving coins from an anyone-can-spend address? The coins should be safe in their new home, so why not? Maybe you will want more confirmations since anyone could replace the txn sent to you with a txn w/ a higher free for the miners.
17:47 diana_coman RubenSomsen: for one thing I don't tend to receive btc just from anyone so there is that double layer of ignoring (ie I ignore also people-on-segwit really, not just segwit, I suppose).
17:47 RubenSomsen whaack: Yes, I agree with that
17:48 RubenSomsen I'd say the fact that you can ignore segwit is even an integral part of it
17:48 diana_coman RubenSomsen: how do you mean?
17:48 diana_coman but at any rate: if something can be fully ignored -> it does *not* do anything so ....what exactly is there to even talk about?
17:49 RubenSomsen It's opt-in, nobody has to use it, nobody gets hurt by those who do use it. This is how segwit and non-segwit users can coexist.
17:50 diana_coman RubenSomsen: I doubt that part with "nobody gets hurt" really; they do, namely the naive and the noobs and so on; just like they have been doing with in all other scams etc; there's plenty history of this "nobody gets hurt" except...
17:50 diana_coman but it's true, it's not on my back as it were, sure.
17:51 whaack RubenSomsen: lmao exactly. the deceitful authors needed to create a scam while making sure they didn't poke the lions
17:51 RubenSomsen Well, people are free to make bad decisions. But personally I don't think segwit is a bad decision (assuming people did their homework and know what they're signing up for, blind faith is not good)
17:51 diana_coman but no, the fact that it can't take over (that's what you are saying there with "can coexist") is not "part of segwit", no.
17:52 diana_coman RubenSomsen: why not make yourself your own blog and write there why exactly you think segwit is a good decision, anyway?
17:53 * BingoBoingo remembers Gavin proposing segwit as a "this is how the protocol works now, sigs will be cleaved off of all transactions" but very quickly that proposal was buried and replaced with the current thing where it only damages those opting in to it.
17:53 diana_coman if you followed the links in those articles you read around here, you might have noticed that there are plenty of *relevant* comments AND links to pretty much all the articles around; it's neither by chance this, nor something to discard, quite the opposite.
17:55 RubenSomsen Well I did do a video on the subject of consensus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk2MTzSkQ5E
17:56 RubenSomsen It would probably clarify a lot of my views and I'd be curious if there are any parts you strongly disagree with
17:56 diana_coman RubenSomsen: people around here can read and that's more than 10 times faster than watching videos so ..uhm, thank you but no; do you have a transcript?
17:56 diana_coman seriously now, writing is the superior format from ~all points of view.
17:57 RubenSomsen diana_coman: Sorry, no. I absorb information better by audio myself (2x speed of course), but I understand that IRC self selects for people who prefer reading.
17:57 diana_coman RubenSomsen: would you mind terribly if I ask you how old you are?
17:57 RubenSomsen 34
17:57 diana_coman oh hey, not even that big gap, I'm 38.
17:58 diana_coman RubenSomsen: it's not really that irc self-selects, it's the other way around ie we are on irc because text is better.
17:58 diana_coman I get the absorb (if you mean with those readers that double/triple the speed) but you lose on interaction and linking with others.
18:00 * BingoBoingo lives in a place where the accents mean I can lose up to 60% of what the local derps are saying in the worst case (poor folk who rarely leave their barrio, self-study English speakers, etc).
18:00 RubenSomsen I think both formats are valuable. Anyway, the video is only 12 min if you go at 2x speed.
18:00 diana_coman RubenSomsen: both formats have *their uses*, sure, nobody denies that.
18:01 RubenSomsen Well this is anecdotal, but Bryan Bishop writes up all the Bitcoin conference talks, and I always find it interesting how between my friends and colleagues some people strongly prefer the video over the transcript or vice versa
18:02 asciilifeform bishop << lol, kanzure ?! confessed enemy agent
18:03 diana_coman RubenSomsen: just for a tiny thing: say I want to reference one specific sentence (or even just a part of it!) from your audio there; how exactly do I reference it precisely? while with text, look here: http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/?b=absolutely&e=#select
18:04 diana_coman so yes, it might be "only 24 minutes" but what I get for spending those 24 minutes that way is significantly less than what I get for spending 24 minutes reading a properly written text, that's the rub (and what you get out of it is similary less, too).
18:05 RubenSomsen I don't think people are wired in the same way. My recollection and memorization is much better from audio, and I can stay more focused. Others seem to be the opposite.
18:05 diana_coman asciilifeform: eh, go easy on him, he's in the thick of it there.
18:06 asciilifeform diana_coman: right, but prolly oughta link :
18:06 asciilifeform !q seen-anywhere kanzure
18:06 snsabot kanzure last seen in #trilema on 2018-06-16 18:41:55: oh, i don't believe in particle acceleration
18:07 RubenSomsen You guys know him?
18:07 diana_coman RubenSomsen: brain is quite a malleable thing, much more than most imagine; ie habits can easily mean you are currently better with one form than with another but that doesn't mean it is to your advantage overall to keep with it, nor that you "can't the other because differently wired" .
18:08 BingoBoingo RubenSomsen: Kanzure hung around here a bit. You'll find many member of the "core" and other crowds have had encounters with the crowd here.
18:08 diana_coman that being said, you can always simply have a software read the text to you, no?
18:08 RubenSomsen Well I do a lot of reading as well, but perhaps you are right that given equal time on both, reading is superior
18:08 diana_coman RubenSomsen: ie why produce video if you need to *listen*, it doesn't quite follow anyway.
18:09 RubenSomsen Robotic text to speech doesn't keep my brain engaged. Primitive perhaps, but true.
18:09 asciilifeform RubenSomsen: fella was friend of an old meatspace friend of mine. was a kind of esr-style lottery winner, as teenager; developed severe delusions of grandeur 'oh hey lemme make a nanotech cad despite knowing 0' and just as the money ran dry, was offered job as a professional bamboozler / bitcoin disinfo artist, by the reich. and afaik is what he does to this day.
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18:09 diana_coman and you'd be surprised how many are known around here though possibly not quite in the way you expect, lol.
18:10 diana_coman ah, it's the abstract part that is less practiced, I see.
18:12 RubenSomsen If I had to self-diagnose, I think school made me hate reading and the default reaction is that my brain starts to wander. I do well with skimming, but if I have to read sentence-by-sentence, I need to be really motivated and interested in the content first in order to stay focused.
18:13 diana_coman you do realise though that what this "audio but NOT text to speech" means is precisely *not* differently wired.
18:14 diana_coman RubenSomsen: what did the school do so horribly re reading?
18:15 RubenSomsen Nothing special, I was just a difficult kid who passively resented the fact that he had to learn stuff for which he did not understand the purpose.
18:17 shrysr diana_coman: I was too tensed overall and abt driving down to stop to take in the sights. first 12 hr drive in winter. Prolly felt good to conquer it head on. I intend to see some of those places again tho.
18:19 diana_coman well, now as an adult it might be worth perhaps revisiting the various acquired habits and deciding to keep/not keep and develop if needed what works best rather than what you happened to end up with; just saying here, not like I stand to gain anything by it either way.
18:19 RubenSomsen Of course, I'm always looking to self-improve.
18:20 RubenSomsen Specific to this I'm doing meditation to better control/notice when my mind wanders.
18:27 diana_coman RubenSomsen: well, writing and reading more would possibly be more straightforward really, especially if you do it around people who actively and routinely give feedback, as it happens here.
18:37 diana_coman RubenSomsen: btw re school, what they did wrong from what you say is precisely that they let you get away with that "passively resented"; here something for ref: http://trilema.com/2014/pro-idiotas-which-obviously-means-people-who-have-ideas-ie-idiots/
~ 24 minutes ~
19:01 diana_coman shrysr: why not write anything on your blog about all those things that went on, anyway? even "hey, I'm in Vancouver, hoooray!" or something ("I'm alive" works too, lol)
~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~
20:28 jfw I emerge (beholding the wreckage of my schedule). Got 257 photos winnowed down to 187, of which 31 out so far. I should be able to push the remainder out faster with that prep done
20:32 diana_coman hah, I was just admiring your photos (and how the bar overlaps some of them, too).
20:33 jfw From yesterday's revised deadlines I missed my genesis regrinds and only finished the rest by cutting into sleep.
20:33 jfw diana_coman: the sidebar? could zoom or resize window I guess, the theme has it absolute-positioned sadly
20:33 diana_coman poor sleep.
20:34 jfw any magic number I pick for photo size will get cut off at some window size afaik
20:34 diana_coman jfw: ah, right you are, I had it on some zoom, right.
20:34 diana_coman yes, you are right.
20:41 BingoBoingo jfw: You may want to do something to your footer to kill the "Powered by Wordpress" link to heathens
20:47 jfw BingoBoingo: right you are, and I suppose a vpatch would be ideal but can just fix locally for now; I've been more or less doing your core vs. theme maintenance split
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