Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-10-14 | 2019-10-16 → ↓
01:00 jfw Back from the mines - wherein I'm teaching some computing noobs how to operate civilized machines. Five weeks ago they didn't know 'ls' from 'cd', now they've configured tty baudrates and compiled their first kernel.
01:02 jfw It gives me some perspective as to, yes, you gotta do as teacher says: because if not, for example, you're liable to get lost in the jungle of premature lines of inquiry
01:05 jfw I'm glad to be doing this as opposed to, say, "making apps" to keep dumbasses dumb; but it's still saltmining in the sense that it's for pay and I'd rather be... here
01:08 jfw http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006276 - while this is part of it, I don't want to hide behind it like "oh, just the way I am, no further exploration possible"
01:08 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-14 14:26:17 jfw: diana_coman: okay... I am pretty introverted, I've long found it takes me time to 'open up'. Let me check re log.
01:15 jfw I think there's some subconscious 'towards-purposing' in it: that I want people to like me and thus worry too much about what I say, with obvious result that they don't know what to think. I'd like to believe I'm an inner-directed type who doesn't care, but can't deny that I do, at least for SOME people - including diana_coman
01:20 jfw For example I had a chat with shryser the other day, who's just as much if not more of a stranger, and didn't have trouble being open. "Because I didn't care nearly as much" - seems to fit.
01:20 jfw *I didn't have trouble
01:24 jfw whereas upon http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-14#1002507 , what went through my head was "eek, I'm messing up already!"
01:24 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-14 05:03:13 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-14#1002492 - if by "build system" you mean autoconf and make and all that shit, uhm; if you want to do something useful in this direction of builds, you should install cuntoo
01:29 jfw (and to revisit the content of the above - yes, my object was to find a version most amenable to ripping out the autoconf; which I've deferred figuring that having SOME working blog, even if by mystery package manager, is better than none.)
~ 4 hours 55 minutes ~
06:25 jfw With his gracious permission I've blogged the aforementioned shrysr chat. Off to bed shortly.
~ 3 hours 51 minutes ~
10:16 diana_coman asciilifeform: re address for the mirror, after a bit of thinking, I can't quite see the reason to vhost and whatevers; it is what it is, namely a ftp mirror, so I enabled anonymous read-only on it as the most logical approach really.
10:19 diana_coman for anyone interested, it's directly accessible via either url or IP ftp://logs.ossasepia.com or ftp://185.163.46.29/
10:20 diana_coman asciilifeform: for that matter perhaps it makes sense to mirror vpatches there too.
10:21 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006282 - heh, how long until they register a key and find their way in here?
10:21 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-14 21:00:32 jfw: Back from the mines - wherein I'm teaching some computing noobs how to operate civilized machines. Five weeks ago they didn't know 'ls' from 'cd', now they've configured tty baudrates and compiled their first kernel.
10:24 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006283 - and more generally because *they make better choices* than you; that's the very meaning of choosing them and of submitting *to them personally*: not some "perfection" but simply the fact that they are *better* than your current self.
10:24 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-14 21:02:27 jfw: It gives me some perspective as to, yes, you gotta do as teacher says: because if not, for example, you're liable to get lost in the jungle of premature lines of inquiry
10:31 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006287 - aha; note however: 1. the fact that you care about *selected* people is a *good thing* really and it actually helps you to grow too but 2. the stupid part is precisely choosing to hide (aka protect your stupidity) yourself when interacting precisely with those whose opinion you value - it should be *exactly* the opposite, namely being
10:31 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-14 21:15:58 jfw: I think there's some subconscious 'towards-purposing' in it: that I want people to like me and thus worry too much about what I say, with obvious result that they don't know what to think. I'd like to believe I'm an inner-directed type who doesn't care, but can't deny that I do, at least for SOME people - including diana_coman
10:31 diana_coman more open with them than with random people, because you'll get way more useful feedback whether positive or negative
10:33 diana_coman shrysr: btw the above is totally valid for you too.
10:35 diana_coman jfw: one part of it is indeed "don't act towards a purpose" ; another part is knowing knowing what feelings are really useful for
10:38 diana_coman and now ofc my blog is still offline grrrrr.
10:46 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006290 - esp here, being a learning place, messing ups are not exactly surprising, quite on the contrary; the important thing is what you do in response to it (and silence is a stupid - though common because easiest - response to it)
10:46 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-14 21:24:06 jfw: whereas upon http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-14#1002507 , what went through my head was "eek, I'm messing up already!"
10:48 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006292 - this is very sane.
10:48 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-14 21:29:37 jfw: (and to revisit the content of the above - yes, my object was to find a version most amenable to ripping out the autoconf; which I've deferred figuring that having SOME working blog, even if by mystery package manager, is better than none.)
10:51 diana_coman re silence, from the logs
10:51 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-03 18:14:57 diana_coman: linking also to http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-25#1000533 and just in case my http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-25#1000536 wasn't clear enough, understand this: the failure mode is when you do not engage/keep silent/do not expose whatever problems/troubles you might have; it's never nor can it be the problems/defects themselves!
~ 3 hours 4 minutes ~
13:55 whaack gm diana_coman. I am starting my work doing background reading on V. The majority of links on ben_vulpes's site under the category "What else has been written on the topic?" are dead. Most of the links point to the realbitcoin.org, which throws a Forbidden page for all of them.
14:00 diana_coman whaack: that would be the foundation's mailing list so I pinged mod6 on it to see what's going on there; you can always check archive.is as well, just in case; other than that though, do be aware that some of those links may be outdated and that working V versions are available otherwise from their authors' website (.py is asciilifeform's)
14:05 whaack Okay. I believe the broken link that is important is mp's Ode to V.
14:10 diana_coman whaack: it's clearly something that got recently messed up on therealbitcoin.org and will likely get easily fixed when mod6 sees the ping on it
14:11 whaack okay ty for pinging him
14:15 diana_coman whaack: you might find useful esthlos' report on V implementation in Lisp, as he discusses some details
14:17 diana_coman just make sure not to make same mistakes at least, lol
14:20 whaack thanks that is a useful link i'd seen before but had forgotten about. i don't know what mistakes you're referring to yet but perhaps i will discover when i read esthlos's post
14:21 diana_coman whaack: that was his first attempt at/with V so the code in there still has some problems; see the trackbacks at his post.
14:22 whaack kk
~ 44 minutes ~
15:06 whaack diana_coman: Is this where I should be getting my v.py ? http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vpy&search= I saw from a comment thread that you host a v.py http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898387 but the starter_v on younghands is v.pl
~ 28 minutes ~
15:35 diana_coman whaack: that works, yes; it's using vtools too, so all good.
15:40 asciilifeform diana_coman: in other lulz, ~nao~ the sad bmore dc wants to talk.
15:40 asciilifeform diana_coman: i'ma keep it warm in case today's is somehow defective.
~ 28 minutes ~
16:08 whaack diana_coman: is it appropriate/to your liking for me to address you as 'my master diana_coman' in a post? I ask because it feels dishonest to say 'diana_coman has assigned me.." instead of 'my master diana_coman has assigned me..' and i've dwelt on this wording for a bit.
~ 54 minutes ~
17:03 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Before it gets lost, it doesn't seem like I had to invoke any special magic to get the permalink redirect magic working. Once the stack started clicking together and singing, the permalinks just worked. After some errands and fulfilling some customer requests, I'll get my recipe published.
~ 35 minutes ~
17:39 diana_coman whaack: historically speaking, teachers were "Master of X" really so yes, "my Master has assigned me this" works fine, specifying name "my Master, diana_coman, assigned" also works fine, sure.
17:40 diana_coman BingoBoingo: good to hear it and publishing the recipe will certainly be useful, yes.
17:40 whaack ok ty. i have two preliminary posts on my study of V coming out of the oven soon.
17:40 diana_coman BingoBoingo: how's the job hunting going or how are you otherwise?
17:40 whaack i found a concrete example of why i was wrong in thinking v does not need to check the hashes of the output files
17:41 whaack ^ while pressing
17:41 diana_coman whaack: heh, sounds like time well spent then; and yes, document what you did and what you've learnt.
17:47 BingoBoingo diana_coman: So far I've been too busy with the cleanup and firefighting to give it an intense look. Guy who handles the bulk of my local fiat/Bitcoin interactions said he is inquiring along some lines locally and may make some introductions.
17:49 BingoBoingo May also give the English teaching thing a go. My library master's degree isn't a teaching degree, but it did come from Mizzou's "College of Education". That would give something to do while eating less coin during a search for something longer term.
17:50 diana_coman BingoBoingo: all right; fwiw I fully appreciate your salvaging of hardware and data + the work to help people recover/get back online and if I didn't say anything so far is just because I knew you were busy and focused on this; but if there's any help you need, just speak up.
17:51 diana_coman BingoBoingo: I know people who went around the world teaching English on the simple basis of having a passport from an English-speaking country really so I'd say it should certainly work.
17:51 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Thank you. I may take you up on that offer.
17:51 whaack diana_coman. posted. i am also organizing links to updated V learning material here http://ztkfg.com/2019/10/v-study-reference-links/ as ben_vulpes did for use of anyone reading the logs and studying V.
17:52 whaack be back in a bit.
17:52 diana_coman whaack: nice; and yes, I'd much rather salvage what is still useful from ben's stuff because he's anyway lost at sea so there isn't even any guarantee that the content will still be up tomorrow or anything.
17:57 BingoBoingo diana_coman: The one reservation about English teaching is that the initial pay in the local market almost certainly will not be great. The other line of work introductions may be made for is a certain type of local agricultural non-profit (not rabbits) existing in a bubble-ish and rapidly changing marketplace whose prospects are less than enthusing.
17:57 diana_coman whaack: your diff line goes wild all over the theme, lol
17:58 whaack lol diana_coman i know. it is time to fix that bit of css that i ignored when reviving blog from fire
17:59 BingoBoingo whaack: Feel free to take the CSS off of my blog and cut it to a shape that pleases you. I'd recommong against doing the same with Qntra's CSS since I had to trim it quite a bit to work with mp-wp
18:00 whaack bingoboingo: ty will consider
18:01 diana_coman BingoBoingo: ugh @ local non-profit whatevers; the best still is to start mailing isps really
18:01 ossabot (trilema) 2019-10-09 mp_en_viaje: can also be frank with them, "look, i came to uy to get isp going, worked ok for 3 years, dc died from under us, i got a girl and must relocate asap"
18:03 BingoBoingo diana_coman: That is still the preferred route. I am uncertain there are enough ISPs with brains left to get much interest in that pitch and thus am considering backup options.
18:04 BingoBoingo But yes, did talk this over with the girl and she's portable.
18:09 thimbronion diana_coman: somewhat interesting talk just now on DALnet with Ahnberg in #ahnberg. I'm currently stuck as to where to go next: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Ny_q
18:16 diana_coman thimbronion: we would move away from freenode once we have a working server on a different network, so that should take care of their "active here"
18:17 diana_coman ask them what does "care about dalnet" mean
18:18 diana_coman because on the face of it, it means precisely nothing; contributing servers IS caring, isn't it?
18:18 thimbronion diana_coman: will do. that is unclear.
18:18 thimbronion right.
18:18 diana_coman so yes, we "care" about dalnet in that we want to contribute a server to it and take active part in its admin
18:18 diana_coman very caring, aren't we
18:19 diana_coman I need to go atm but I'll be back later
18:20 diana_coman before I go: we want to "care" - now, what exactly do they have there that is worth we give a damn about?
18:20 diana_coman lolz
18:20 * diana_coman will bbl
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
19:35 asciilifeform diana_coman: meanwhile asciilifeform set up dulap-gentoo on usb drive, but apparently, grrr, these require additional magicks to become bootable (will look into dox to find which)
19:36 asciilifeform ( idea was, to dispense w/ the heathen booter and put whole kit on 1 disk image that can be distributed, plus scripts to semi-automate the install )
~ 43 minutes ~
20:19 diana_coman whaack: foundation mailing list archive is accessible now
20:19 ossabot (trilema) 2019-10-15 mod6: Alright, I've got the ML archives back up. http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/ and http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/
20:27 whaack great, i'll update my post to include links from there shortly
~ 26 minutes ~
20:54 diana_coman whaack: "Creating source using V is done by taking a sequentially applying a set of vpatches. " - this doesn't even parse; do *re-read* your own text before pushing that publish button.
20:54 shrysr http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-15#1006304 << ack. It's significantly harder to get appropriate advice/feedback without presenting the problem fully to *anybody*, let alone a person whose opinion I value. fwiw: If I wanted to open maself - I cannot see a reason to do it w/some random person over a person whose opinion is valued.. unless perhaps nobodyz opinion is valued.
20:54 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-15 06:33:55 diana_coman: shrysr: btw the above is totally valid for you too.
20:55 diana_coman gah, it's not even the only word-salad in there; /me can't read it and will stop; whaack fix it first for basic grammar.
20:55 diana_coman shrysr: what are you trying to say there?
20:57 whaack diana_coman: okay, is it alright if i edit the original post?
20:57 diana_coman whaack: yes, proofreading it's called.
21:01 shrysr diana_coman: i'm saying I agree with you that i cannot expect to recv advice that actually works for my problem by hiding parts of the problem, which like you said can encapsulate my stupidity. And that - if i wanted any feedback of value, (which i can obtain by presenting the problem fully) - i cant see how it could be better to go to a random person when i have access to a person whose opinion i value.
21:08 diana_coman shrysr: way clearer stated this way! there was one more important part to the original point though: it's not only about receiving advice but generally about interacting with someone whose opinion matters for you - it's *because* you value their opinion that you should open up to them more, as simple as that.
21:11 diana_coman jfw: what happened to free tomorrow?
21:11 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-14 14:33:27 jfw: Gotta head to saltmine shortly but I'll be free tomorrow.
21:11 jfw http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-15#1006297 - gpg, networking and irc setup should be covered within a month; as for what they do with it, I don't think I'm in a position to decide, but I'll tell 'em you asked
21:11 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-15 06:21:22 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006282 - heh, how long until they register a key and find their way in here?
21:11 jfw oh hey, here I am.
21:11 diana_coman ha
21:12 diana_coman suspiciously synchronised!
21:12 shrysr lol
21:12 diana_coman jfw: who are those you are teaching there anyway?
21:15 jfw Some people I met locally; not sure how much more it's ok to say here.
21:15 diana_coman jfw: I meant as in age/how did you find them, this sort of thing; not asking for their ids as they don't have any, in real terms
21:16 jfw heh, ok. About my age (I'm 29)
21:16 diana_coman jfw: to ask it a different way: what exactly is your business/what are you doing in panama anyway?
21:19 jfw Original idea of the business was to do btc/fiat brokerage, "done right" as in GPG API, TRB and so forth. The connections to do that didn't work out, but since I'd been working on hardware/software security, we've focused on selling that / training.
21:21 diana_coman fwiw panama has a rather negative reputation really as in "tends to be liked by idiots and disliked by non-idiots"; I suppose it works as a basic example of wot-use too, lolz
21:22 jfw The business is with a friend I met in Panama, who assures me he'll be dropping in here soon. I came originally in 2013, just to get established somewhere non-US and it had easy-ish residence and favorable taxes for my situation at the time.
21:23 diana_coman jfw: do you have panama citizenship now/
21:24 jfw It has its annoyances, sure, but more or less lights stay on, shelves are stocked with at least something, can't complain too much.
21:24 jfw No, but believe I'm now eligible to apply
21:25 diana_coman every place has its annoyances, that is a given; the whole question is about the degree to which the specific set of local annoyances for one place or another stands in the way of the sort of things you want to do.
21:25 jfw What do you mean about "basic example of wot-use"?
21:27 diana_coman jfw: panama, although not in the wot as it's not a person, still has some informal "ratings" via "who lives/likes it there and who doesn't"; some positives and some negatives but *who* maintains it as positive matters as much as the positive itself.
21:28 diana_coman precisely as any wot works and illustrating exactly the sort of thing most newcomers seem to have trouble with,
21:28 diana_coman with.
21:29 diana_coman (and who maintains it as negative matters just as much, ofc.)
21:29 jfw I see. Indeed, the king of a barren rock would sing the praises of his rock, which wouldn't necessarily mean much for anyone else
21:30 diana_coman not only that; but there are literally people whose "this is great" aka positive rating counts as a big fat negative for me, lol
21:30 diana_coman jfw: are you even familiar with bitbet?
21:30 jfw yeah
21:30 diana_coman jfw: so what's the link with panama?
21:31 jfw like whose rating got me here?
21:31 diana_coman jfw: no, what's the link between bitbet and panama, lol
21:31 jfw oh... wasn't aware of one, though there's legal gambling here
21:33 diana_coman jfw: eh, voorhes sang panama's praises at some point; it's all history and not the best way to spend your time atm really; I thought you were familiar with it because you said yes earlier, that's all.
21:35 jfw ah, voorhees I know of. Was he in the Berkshire bet?
21:37 diana_coman not that I recall though I didn't follow the Berkshire bet specifically all that close
21:38 BingoBoingo Voorhees was Satoshi Dice
21:38 jfw SatoshiDice, http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/ and Coinapult are the main things I know about him.
21:41 diana_coman BingoBoingo: ah, right; why the fuck do I keep mixing bitbet with satoshidice in my head
21:41 diana_coman jfw: yes, satoshidice, sorry for the confusion there.
21:41 BingoBoingo Well good chunk of both their runs overlapped
21:41 jfw He moved back to the US some years ago as I understand, so dunno if he's updated his rating of Panama, heh
21:42 diana_coman I can't say I care really.
21:44 jfw On the stupidity of hiding stupidity: makes sense, and I'll try to not do that, much as the stupidity will surely object.
21:46 diana_coman jfw: how much of your time is the teaching/training eating? or do you do other stuff too?
21:49 BingoBoingo Re: panama, hanbot has a piece http://thewhet.net/2018/04/panama-makes-me-ill/
21:49 jfw heh, I saw that yes.
21:50 diana_coman that'd be a negative rating from a person whose rating carries quite the weight, yes
21:51 jfw There are garbage problems because 1) they mostly haven't invented dumpsters yet and 2) unionized I believe. Possibly 1 is because of 2.
21:53 BingoBoingo Here they have dumpsters and still trash issues
21:53 jfw "what, you mean I'm supposed to put the trash *in* the dumpster"?
21:53 diana_coman lolz; it's ok, you have another training opportunity there :D
21:54 BingoBoingo Nah, that happens more or less. The problem is pichis taking trash out of dumpsters
21:54 BingoBoingo "Recollectors"
21:56 BingoBoingo There's these nice dumpsters that don't catch on fire all that often and... anything that might have any value at all gets dug out.
21:56 jfw mm, yeah pretty sure we have those too
21:57 jfw "we" lol, I better be careful
21:57 BingoBoingo "Protestors" will also empty dumpsters when their candidate/team/etc loses
22:00 BingoBoingo Anyways, '12 year night' nice cathartic film to watch up until the last act.
22:03 diana_coman jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-15#1006423 was in part re http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006252 because I gather you still want to finish getting fully up to date with the logs but atm there's no eta on that.
22:03 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-15 17:46:43 diana_coman: jfw: how much of your time is the teaching/training eating? or do you do other stuff too?
22:03 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-14 13:44:21 jfw: diana_coman: technically less than 2 months (of log to get through) as I've followed since Sep 14, but your point stands. I'm at a loss re plan, logically I gotta either get more efficient or make more time. I have improved on both so far, fwiw. I'll try to come up with something more concrete.
22:10 jfw oh yeah whoops, was digging on that. It's something like 25h/week in the preparation, transit & lessons. Anyway, I'd indeed like to finish the full readthrough but don't think it's a prerequisite of deciding
22:22 diana_coman jfw: hm, that would logically leave more than 9 work-hours available per week though even at 8h*5days employee-mode.
22:30 diana_coman anyways, I'll be back tomorrow.
22:31 jfw Preparing for potential business takes time too, as does planning/reflecting. Last two weeks blog setup and re-setup took time as I mentioned. And there's current log reading. I'm sure I'm not as efficient as I could be, but there's no "20 hours a week watching netflix" or anything I can obviously cut.
~ 19 minutes ~
22:50 whaack diana_coman: I fixed the obvious errors in my post and restructured the post a bit as well.
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
23:56 jfw Something's been persistently bugging me about my last line there. I think it's that I was unnecessarily defensive: perhaps diana_coman had not jumped to the conclusion of "that jfw is a lazy bum" as I seem to have assumed, or there was a simple misunderstanding
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