#ossasepia | 2019-10-07

01:11

diana_coman: ack

~ 23 minutes ~

01:34

diana_coman: This is as far as I was able to get with the time I had over the weekend. I've added bracketed comments to note where I know more work is necessary. My blog is not accessible so I've pasted the markdown formatted version here: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=AkTJ

~ 5 hours 40 minutes ~

07:15

01:11	thimbronion	diana_coman: ack
		~ 23 minutes ~
01:34	thimbronion	diana_coman: This is as far as I was able to get with the time I had over the weekend. I've added bracketed comments to note where I know more work is necessary. My blog is not accessible so I've pasted the markdown formatted version here: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=AkTJ
		~ 5 hours 40 minutes ~
07:15	diana_coman	rekt_: Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ! are you in Russia?
07:15	rekt_	No, that is one of my languages
07:16	rekt_	Russian ftw
07:17	diana_coman	rekt_: what other languages do you speak then?
07:18	diana_coman	thimbronion: ah, your blog is with pizarro too, sigh; I'll look at the paste later today
07:21	diana_coman	thimbronion: at a quick look: 1. you really need to practice saying things in your own words; 2. when you go "how is x different from y" the answer should take the shape of "x is this way while y is that way" for various "way"
07:23	diana_coman	thimbronion: lolz, you have two 1; re first paragraph of your summary - you don't merely replace the mushroom metaphor, you outright change the subject there! your first paragraph betrays a "wtf, I have no idea what this is" re the first original paragraph
07:23	diana_coman	thimbronion: and instead of struggling to figure out what the author actually says there, you trim and chop it to fit your pre-existing thoughts
07:25	diana_coman	thimbronion: as I said it before to shrysr , so it applies to you: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-27#1004132
07:25	ossabot	Logged on 2019-09-27 15:51:51 diana_coman: shrysr: when you read something it should be a lot more the other way around - you may look at how you fit the description there (even how you change to fit the description there) and certainly NOT "how to change the description to fit me"
07:27	diana_coman	rekt_: don't be shy; the more you engage and interact, the better for you really; and who knows what comes out of it.
		~ 7 hours 25 minutes ~
14:52	diana_coman	thimbronion: a review (as well as quite a few other things actually, god dammit it) has a structure too, you know? you don't just plonk "this is dog" and then put there whatever went on in your mind.
14:53	diana_coman	before you are allowed to publish words you should know what the fuck you want to say
14:53	diana_coman	sure, you can write 1mn drafts and work your way in writing to understanding
14:54	diana_coman	but they are not going to be called summaries for that, no matter how many times you introduce them as such
14:55	diana_coman	thimbronion: you know, if you have to say "this is a summary/review/dog", chances are very, very high that it's precisely because it is...not yet a summary/review/dog
14:58	diana_coman	you should get some slop for dinner, served with a very nice label "this is cordon bleu"; see what that does for you.
15:01	diana_coman	thimbronion: there are several ways you can structure your review, sure; but structure it you must; if it's just "something that grew", it's the above slop.
15:05	diana_coman	thimbronion: do the simplest of structures: start with the goal (you're reviewing your own summary as an exercise and as a needed step to be able to improve on next attempt) overall conclusion (it sucks on aspect A, B, C; there is perhaps D that sort of works but fails short on E etc) and then take each of those aspects and detail them
15:07	diana_coman	at the end, you can add then the discussion as to why each fail, sure; it's basically part of fulfilling that original goal of the exercise.
15:10	diana_coman	but note that a review in itself is not concerned with whatever excuses; it's concerned with evaluating the thing reviewed, as it stands, that's all.
15:14	diana_coman	thimbronion: on the irc task: what's your current plan re talking to them?
		~ 37 minutes ~
15:51	rekt_	Hi. Sorry, a little busy
15:53	thimbronion	diana_coman: My plan is to start at the top of the list, find out who is in charge of administering the network and state the facts, document response. I would prefer to wait until my blog is back up so I can have mp's and your comments more freshly in mind before going in. If my blog is not back by tonight I will go in tomorrow without it.
16:03	thimbronion	http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-07#1004751 << I will rewrite review by EOD Sunday.
16:03	ossabot	Logged on 2019-10-07 11:05:12 diana_coman: thimbronion: do the simplest of structures: start with the goal (you're reviewing your own summary as an exercise and as a needed step to be able to improve on next attempt) overall conclusion (it sucks on aspect A, B, C; there is perhaps D that sort of works but fails short on E etc) and then take each of those aspects and detail them
16:04	diana_coman	thimbronion: all right; mind you state the goal in your own words + ask if stuck/lost again, yes?
16:05	thimbronion	diana_coman: How do I know some words are my own?
16:05	diana_coman	thimbronion: practice; try restating that goal-statement in at least 3 ways.
16:06	diana_coman	thimbronion: some words are your own if you a. know exactly what they mean b. know exactly why you chose to use each of them to say whatever you are saying
16:06	diana_coman	it's not enough to say "I agree with X's statement"
16:06	diana_coman	that is at best a sort of passive understanding of a thing and it's not enough
16:16	diana_coman	thimbronion: say something
16:17	thimbronion	diana_coman: I know I have questions but I don't think they'll be clear to me until I try the restatement exercise.
16:19	diana_coman	thimbronion: all right; how about http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-07#1004754 ?
16:19	ossabot	Logged on 2019-10-07 11:14:23 diana_coman: thimbronion: on the irc task: what's your current plan re talking to them?
16:19	thimbronion	diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-07#1004756
16:19	ossabot	Logged on 2019-10-07 11:53:37 thimbronion: diana_coman: My plan is to start at the top of the list, find out who is in charge of administering the network and state the facts, document response. I would prefer to wait until my blog is back up so I can have mp's and your comments more freshly in mind before going in. If my blog is not back by tonight I will go in tomorrow without it.
16:21	diana_coman	thimbronion: re your blog yes, ugh; we will have to wait and sort it out first indeed, for several reasons; re plan though: you just need to go to their admin chan or whatever and ask who is in charge + talk, that's all.
16:22	thimbronion	diana_coman: can you expand more on talk?
16:25	diana_coman	thimbronion: what's the unclear part there? you know, like every time you go to a new place, you say hello and where you're coming from + why you are there + asking who should you be talking to if not there/them; let them answer, answer the challenges etc
16:25	diana_coman	re coming from - TMSR in this case, hopefully that much is clear
16:27	thimbronion	diana_coman: I wasn't clear on the difference between "stating the facts" and talking.
16:27	diana_coman	thimbronion: talking involves actually interacting with the other party ie reacting as well as stating the facts
16:28	diana_coman	several steps.
16:28	thimbronion	diana_coman: Is there a particular link that would be best in this context for giving to administrators who are curious about TMSR?
16:29	diana_coman	thimbronion: in this particular context I'd give them the logger really with direct statement that look, we have several very active and lively chans + infrastructure and all
16:29	diana_coman	and invite them to join to find out more, sure, why not
16:29	diana_coman	come and talk to us directly, why not
16:29	thimbronion	diana_coman: hm yes, this makes much sense.
16:30	diana_coman	you can ofc give basic explanations, there's the main forum #trilema and then various castles covering different aspects, it's growing etc
16:31	thimbronion	diana_coman: in that case I would definitely like to wait until we figure out what is going on in uy. Definitely don't want to send them to a dead link.
16:31	diana_coman	but realise that you are giving them the crumbs to follow and that because you are kind hearted pretty much; you are specifically not explaining yourself to them because they have no such claim over you, nor can they have it
16:32	diana_coman	thimbronion: well, you can always send them to my logger that is fine and well ofc; but anyways, yes, I'd wait a bit for now to get out of the pizmess first, one way or another
16:35	diana_coman	rekt_: up to you really but note that 1. no opportunity lasts forever 2. busy may be at one time or another, but can't quite last for days on end (or you have a very serious problem with your own time management there)
16:35	thimbronion	diana_coman: concerning China, I'm going to ask for some research this week, the result being a list of mainland China based Bitcoin focused blogs with specific, named authors.
16:36	rekt_	I have a very rigid daily program
16:36	diana_coman	thimbronion: for that matter why not ask re irc/equivalent networks/chans; I have no idea exactly what they have in there
16:36	rekt_	breakfast, gym, food, study 20 languages, food, work, gym, food, sleep
16:37	diana_coman	rekt_: and so if/when opportunity knocks on your door you say "I have no time because I have a very rigid program" ?
16:37	diana_coman	rekt_: some slack time has to be part of the most rigid program too; for that matter you are still human, not a robot
16:38	thimbronion	diana_coman: the thought occurred to look for China based IRC networks. I will inquire there as well. This may require some education on the part of my contact.
16:39	diana_coman	I mean: it sounds like a very strong will and all that, hopefully it also works well for you; but still.
16:39	diana_coman	rekt_: ^ is for you.
16:39	rekt_	Yes I don't have time for a relationship
16:39	rekt_	Been single for 20 heads
16:39	rekt_	20 years *
16:39	diana_coman	rekt_: uhm, if that's your worry, put it to rest, lolz.
16:40	rekt_	My life is about long term plan
16:40	rekt_	if what is my worry?
16:40	rekt_	How weak is a person who complains about the fact
16:40	rekt_	Vs a person who sees it as a fact and remains like I am, unaffected?
16:40	diana_coman	rekt_: if your worry here is geting into a relationship ie time-eating
16:41	diana_coman	rekt_: neah, you got the wrong end of the stick there, simmer down.
16:41	rekt_	Read my last message
16:41	rekt_	Maybe you're confused about my personal strength
16:41	diana_coman	rekt_: no, I have no idea about your personal strength; but you are talking to your own strawmen there, not to what I said.
16:42	rekt_	I addressed my capacity for facing reality, but you insist I am worried
16:42	rekt_	Not sure what I'd be worried about
16:42	diana_coman	rekt_: not at all, no
16:42	rekt_	My only concern is my long term goal
16:43	rekt_	Peace out triggered snowflake trumpets
16:44	diana_coman	lolz.
16:44	diana_coman	can't argue with a man on a very rigid plan, what.
16:54	diana_coman	studying 20 languages but being utterly unable to communicate; takes the whole modern autism to another level.
16:58	bvt	tbh that sounded a lot like cat-v to me
16:59	diana_coman	bvt: how/why's that?
17:01	bvt	he insisted on this 'life = long-term plans', but was not really communicating with anyone
17:03	bvt	i immediately rememebered one case of mp entering some cat-v-derived channel, with their insistence on 'authority = send us patches', but also not communicating, just repeating the mantra
17:03	diana_coman	bvt: in principle single-minded focus to the extreme; he was very triggered by some impression that "not strong" though
17:04	diana_coman	ah, but that "just repeating the mantra" is precisely the "modern day autism" I mentioned; you'll meet it already if you just say something "out of script" to whatever employee
17:05	diana_coman	the multiple lulz here is that he claimed he focused on studying languages of all things; but other than that it's very common really; this "word x -> reply y", no meaning involved, no person really, just an automaton repeating - as you say - mantras
17:06	bvt	well, getting easily triggered seems to be highly individual, but extreme singular focus is what distiguishes cat-v for me
17:07	diana_coman	fwiw I fished him out of some oftc sad&deserted chan that wasn't however cat-v; can't even recall exactly which one, I did a foray in thimbronion's selection of networks the other day
17:10	bvt	looks like one of the manalone 'evolution' direction, should be plenty in all fields (languages or saving unix); and i also wonder, he did not even say what he needs 20 languages for?
17:10	diana_coman	bvt: iirc he said something (possibly before coming here) re travelling the world and making money out of vlogging
17:12	diana_coman	and sure, in all fields; but learning languages while avoiding communication is so ...divorced of reality that I don't yet have full words for it really.