Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-12-23 | 2014-12-25 → ↓
00:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11521 @ 0.00065647 = 7.5632 BTC [+]
00:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5739 @ 0.00065647 = 3.7675 BTC [+]
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~
01:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00064466 = 1.6117 BTC [-]
~ 25 minutes ~
01:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00064466 = 7.9938 BTC [-]
~ 39 minutes ~
02:22 BingoBoingo !up austeritysucks
02:28 BingoBoingo !up punkman1
02:29 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2014/12/discus-fish-donates-namecoins-to-namecoin-developers/
02:29 assbot Discus Fish Donates Namecoins to Namecoin Developers | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1wjABO1 )
~ 1 hours 4 minutes ~
03:33 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.0012081 = 2.4162 BTC [-] {7}
03:40 jurov <mircea_popescu> somehow nobody goes "o look, mp paid 100s of btc so bitcoin financial space may exist" << you know, that space practically does not exist for them
↖
03:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00062326 = 18.8848 BTC [-]
03:48 jurov coinbr s.mpoe divs finally paid. to compensate for the waiting, twice the amount ;)
~ 28 minutes ~
04:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88350 @ 0.00061937 = 54.7213 BTC [-] {4}
~ 26 minutes ~
04:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00063022 = 8.7285 BTC [+]
~ 1 hours 21 minutes ~
06:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00061543 = 9.0776 BTC [-]
~ 47 minutes ~
06:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00061543 = 18.2783 BTC [-]
06:58 thestringpuller It was the day before X-Mas, all was silent, even in #b-a. Nothing stirred, not even a bot.
~ 19 minutes ~
07:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00062328 = 2.9294 BTC [+]
07:30 thestringpuller I guess it technically is already XMas for cazalla
~ 30 minutes ~
08:01 jurov <mike_c> [20141223 14:37] have you ever thought about adding the ability to short mpex stocks to coinbr? << coinbr is on hold atm. on one side it didn't make almost anything this year, on other side mpex is just not there reliability wise for solid service
08:01 jurov and i don't mean puny dns errors, but stuff like vanishing orders
08:05 thestringpuller oh no. jurov what does that mean for customers?
08:13 jurov it means...same as before. you notice glitches, i'll exchange gpg blobs with mircea and eventually fix it
08:15 jurov and i had inquiries like "we want api for coinbr" me: "it is possible, just very ratelimited... let's do it together, can you do 100BTC volume?"
08:15 jurov they: "um... dunno.. let me ask"
08:15 thestringpuller heh understood
08:16 thestringpuller thx for the extended transparency and due diligence with your fiduciary duty
08:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19706 @ 0.00061543 = 12.1277 BTC [-]
08:20 dignork jurov: sorry to hear that, i like coinbr
08:25 dignork :( sorry, I'm leaving states in a few days, gift cards are of no use for me, otherwise I'd buy some from you.
08:25 dignork wrong chan
08:26 jurov O.o lol
~ 18 minutes ~
08:45 dignork jurov: gift cards are not for you, hopefully you don't need this bizarre substitute :)
08:50 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2365 @ 0.00120319 = 2.8455 BTC [-] {2}
~ 42 minutes ~
09:33 kakobrekla https://wikileaks.org/cia-travel/secondary-screening/page-15.html#efmAAzABm
09:33 assbot CIA Assessment on Surviving Secondary Screening - page 15 ... ( http://bit.ly/1B1nSnM )
~ 35 minutes ~
10:09 jurov kakobrekla: do you have prepared cover story when flying to argentina?
10:09 jurov or, even more important, when coming back :)
10:11 kakobrekla hehe
10:11 * kakobrekla not going there afaik.
10:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9978 @ 0.00062328 = 6.2191 BTC [+]
10:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00060714 = 17.1213 BTC [-] {3}
10:26 jurov good to know, i'm not going either
10:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.00058305 = 29.3274 BTC [-] {5}
10:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6021 @ 0.00057637 = 3.4703 BTC [-] {2}
10:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10505 @ 0.00056402 = 5.925 BTC [-] {3}
10:44 mod6 :[
10:44 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5624 @ 0.00055393 = 3.1153 BTC [-] {2}
10:53 asciilifeform jurov, kakobrekla not going !?
10:53 asciilifeform damn, who is !?
10:55 thestringpuller you
10:56 asciilifeform jurov: why not going ?
10:57 asciilifeform kakobrekla we know is a miser, but jurov ?
10:57 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I don't think people really stay in this channel unless they are misers.
10:58 asciilifeform !s official miser
10:58 assbot 1 results for 'official miser' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=official+miser
10:58 dignork hey, i'm not a miser, just not too wealthy :)
11:01 jurov lol i'm a miser too... why you though otherwise?
11:02 jurov *thought
11:03 kakobrekla misery keeps us feed.
11:04 xanthyos we're not all misers.
11:04 kakobrekla fed i mean.
11:05 xanthyos there's an appeal to the pageantry of misery
11:05 xanthyos counting stacks of gold coins in a dark room
11:05 jurov asciilifeform prolly mistook wao for my personal driver :DDD
11:06 kakobrekla lol
11:07 kakobrekla but idk if im a misser
11:07 kakobrekla i could live on even less than this.
11:07 kakobrekla much less.
11:09 kakobrekla (go 500km south and everything is half price or less)
11:09 jurov southern somalia?
11:09 jurov :D
11:09 kakobrekla lol
11:10 kakobrekla no, but im srs.
11:12 jurov yea i know. i am fine with 25k eur before taxes this year, even paid part of a new car from that
11:12 kakobrekla i paid 500 btc for the car but no taxes.
11:14 jurov 500? you bought tesla?
11:14 kakobrekla no, thats like 100 or something :D
11:15 * kakobrekla bought the car back in the year when btc was 10bux or smth
11:15 jurov heh
11:17 kakobrekla but now im stuck with it as the thing wont amortize over 750k years
11:18 thestringpuller ben_vulpes: are you working? (do you celebrate xmas?)
11:32 xanthyos heh
11:33 mod6 asciilifeform: are you going to b-a?
~ 21 minutes ~
11:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2136 @ 0.0005925 = 1.2656 BTC [+]
12:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00059442 = 7.3114 BTC [+]
12:14 BingoBoingo So Today I came out once again net positive in the course of my Christmas shopping.
12:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00060376 = 7.0036 BTC [+] {2}
12:15 BingoBoingo My favorite liquor store for the second year in a row gifted me with a bottle of wine and a girly calendar when I came in for cigarettes.
12:18 thestringpuller "Oh hey it's bingoboingo! Ah, we love 'dis guy! Merry Christmas muthafucka!"
12:18 BingoBoingo Pretty much how it went.
12:18 BingoBoingo Honestly I think they do it to get rid of whatever wine wasn't selling.
12:20 thestringpuller the girly calendar is a nice touch tho
12:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12964 @ 0.00059442 = 7.7061 BTC [-]
12:22 BingoBoingo Yeah
12:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00057802 = 8.7859 BTC [-]
12:45 BingoBoingo scoopbot -fetch
12:46 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/butterfly-labs-motion-to-dismiss-ftc-suit-survives/
12:49 thestringpuller oh wow
12:51 BingoBoingo So... Beat CCN and CoinDesk to that one.
12:53 thestringpuller hopefully we can beat them on this other story too
12:55 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.118 = 1.18 BTC [-] {2}
12:58 BingoBoingo Well, that in your hands
13:03 davout BingoBoingo: i really like your articles
13:03 BingoBoingo davout: Thank you
13:04 BingoBoingo It's taken some time getting the right balance of dense enough and informative enough for newswriting
13:04 davout in other news josh garza gets an 'honorable mention' in coindesk's list of 'bitcoin's most influential people of 2014'
13:05 thestringpuller looking more like he owns coindesk...
13:07 BingoBoingo lol
13:07 BingoBoingo I thought CoinDesk was still a VC thing
13:07 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2014/12/coinbase-tracing-user-transactions/
~ 1 hours 28 minutes ~
14:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00055146 = 5.5697 BTC [-] {2}
14:38 thestringpuller ;;ticker
14:38 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 322.76, Best ask: 323.91, Bid-ask spread: 1.15000, Last trade: 323.93, 24 hour volume: 6248.93897115, 24 hour low: 322.0, 24 hour high: 338.99, 24 hour vwap: 332.111093959
14:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4843 @ 0.00055976 = 2.7109 BTC [+]
14:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14232 @ 0.00058554 = 8.3334 BTC [+]
15:04 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
15:04 gribble Current Blocks: 335729 | Current Difficulty: 3.945767130713873E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 336671 | Next Difficulty In: 942 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 4 hours, 44 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 38511034395.1 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.39912
15:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00057655 = 5.4196 BTC [-]
~ 34 minutes ~
15:43 decimation https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~safari/pubs/kim-isca14.pdf << "By reading from the same address in DRAM, we show that it is possible to corrupt data in nearby addresses"
15:43 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zUd8rU )
15:45 decimation asciilifeform: look at that, some academics actually studying hardware
15:51 dignork decimation: cool paper, scary, otherwise I didn't bother to calcualte probabilities for uncontrolled random scenario, or non-DOS attack vector.
15:53 decimation note that ECC is only a partial mitigation
15:53 dignork yep, so it reducues random occurences, but i still don't see any good attacks with it.
15:54 dignork *reduces
15:54 decimation umm, you can corrupt the victim's memory by executing a loop?
15:55 dignork well, the thing is, if you already can write into his memory, at very specific locations, you probably already running there :)
15:55 decimation don't need to write, only read
15:56 dignork well, same difference, you still run on his machine for this.
15:57 jurov not necessarily
15:57 jurov there's certainly a way how to remotely cause already present software to repeatedly read memory
15:58 decimation for example, a crafted javascript or maybe just plain html web page
15:59 dignork well, sure, but these reads need to happen nearby executed code, which by random error turns into something executable, etc. Just can't construct any scenario it realisticly happens. But I might be wrong.
15:59 BingoBoingo http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30599341
15:59 assbot BBC News - Vodka prices: Putin calls for cap amid economic crisis ... ( http://bit.ly/1wGzldf )
15:59 jurov dignork you certainly did not read
16:00 jurov "nearby" does not mean near addresses
16:00 dignork jurov: chip address line, verifying your chip line from javascript?
16:00 jurov because there are clever interleaving schemes to allow for faster reading
16:01 decimation dignork: are you implying that javascript doesn't use ram?
16:01 dignork it does, but it's rather sandboxed.
16:01 jurov dignork: do browsers have randomized addresses for loading js? iirc not
16:02 jurov js could corrupt browser core memory few pages away in this scenario
16:02 decimation certainly the js memory is not randomly moved every context switch
16:02 jurov not even every startup
16:02 dignork so it normally cannot read your /dev/whatever to check the physical location, but sure, it's potentially DOS/crash, not an effective code execution.
16:04 jurov why not? if js in certain version of firefox can reliably cause fast repeated reads at address X, thus affecting addresses Y,Z
16:04 jurov we know what code/data is at Y,Z
16:06 dignork we cause a random pattern error at this position...
16:06 dignork chances of sucessfull execution drop to 0
16:08 dignork well, not absolute 0, but some very small negligible %
16:08 jurov "B and C modules heavily favored 1->0 errors." << not random pattern error
16:11 jurov and "behavior of most victim cells depended of other cells" << also usable for information exfiltration
16:11 dignork so you have some more than frequent pattern, it should match the actual data that you want to write.
16:11 BingoBoingo !up moldysnizz
16:12 dignork Oh, reading, even with noise, border cells might be usefull though, haven't seen it.
16:13 BingoBoingo !up bitspill
16:13 BingoBoingo !up bitstein
16:13 decimation at any rate, it's proof of the kind of error against which asciilifeform regularly pontificates, that is, a hardware error that is known only to the vendors of the chips
16:13 BingoBoingo !up badon
16:13 jurov https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/papers/memerr.pdf << there was already research on using much more random memory errors than this
16:13 assbot Page Not Found | Computer Science Department at Princeton University ... ( http://bit.ly/1wGBCVC )
16:13 dignork yep, scary.
16:23 BingoBoingo http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/12/hospital-ama/
16:23 assbot UPDATE: Cookie Monster Leaves Sesame Street Hospital AMA on Christmas Eve | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1wGDhuv )
16:23 BingoBoingo !up Dimsler
16:35 dignork jurov: thanks for the link, haven't read the actual method before, it's awesome.
16:36 cazalla thestringpuller: I guess it technically is already XMas for cazalla <<< 830am xmas morning but still, cuppa tea and read logs before my first family xmas opening gifts
16:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14550 @ 0.00058967 = 8.5797 BTC [+] {3}
16:50 jurov https://devuan.org/newsletter_22dec.html << they claim to be self-hosting already
16:50 assbot Devuan - the GNU/Linux by Veteran Unix Admins. ... ( http://bit.ly/13wyXBY )
16:54 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00120003 = 1.2 BTC [-]
17:09 jurov https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8788532 if anyone cares, i don't have hn account
17:09 assbot Good IRC channels | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/13wABn2 )
17:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28795 @ 0.00057951 = 16.687 BTC [-]
~ 28 minutes ~
17:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00057951 = 6.9541 BTC [-]
17:54 BingoBoingo !up austeritysucks
17:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10600 @ 0.00057951 = 6.1428 BTC [-]
18:04 scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-boy-blog-network/
18:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44600 @ 0.00059078 = 26.3488 BTC [+] {4}
~ 28 minutes ~
18:38 asciilifeform memory paper << snore. 1) serious folks using dram - use ecc dram. 2) serious folks do not allow opponent to execute arbitrary strange on their von neumann box 3) serious folks doing truly serious things use sram.
18:38 asciilifeform for aficionados of dram diddling,
18:39 asciilifeform !s bitsquatting
18:39 assbot 7 results for 'bitsquatting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitsquatting
18:39 asciilifeform and related pursuits.
18:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17550 @ 0.00059698 = 10.477 BTC [+]
18:41 dignork http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cdc-reports-potential-ebola-exposure-in-atlanta-lab/2014/12/24/f1a9f26c-8b8e-11e4-8ff4-fb93129c9c8b_story.html
18:41 assbot CDC reports potential Ebola exposure in Atlanta lab - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/13wJdtY )
18:56 Adlai http://slur.io/
18:56 assbot Introducing Slur ... ( http://bit.ly/13wKC3z )
18:57 * Adlai likes how they talk about it in present tense, then later ask for money so they can build it
18:57 asciilifeform Adlai: honeypot.
18:58 asciilifeform and site has 'flash.' QED.
18:58 Adlai LOL https://github.com/u99/slur
18:58 assbot u99/slur · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/13wKMYG )
18:58 asciilifeform and disputes settled by showing the actual secret to five randomly selected lusers
18:58 asciilifeform what a joke.
18:59 asciilifeform d3m0cr4cy!!
18:59 Adlai https://github.com/u99/slur/stargazers <- who are these lemmings
18:59 assbot Stargazers · u99/slur · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/13wKRf3 )
19:00 asciilifeform 'Fund with a credit card'
19:00 asciilifeform lol!
19:00 Adlai i'm almost curious to see what this download is
19:02 asciilifeform dreary usg (and useful-idiots) claptrap.
19:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1160 @ 0.00120495 = 1.3977 BTC [+] {3}
19:06 Adlai https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8794707 << we're about to find out the width of the venn diagram intersection between #startups and here
19:06 assbot #bitcoin-assets on freenode is a good one with frequent discussion | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/13wLx49 )
19:07 Adlai ... is it just me or does HN have job ads now
19:08 Adlai hm. haven't poked around this corner of the internet much lately
19:11 asciilifeform 'slur' << i love how these nitwits show no symptoms whatsoever of having bothered to study how secrets were sold historically, from babylon to cold war, etc
19:11 asciilifeform what it actually takes in real life, to establish the kind of relationships needed
19:11 asciilifeform no. why would they do that. we have l33t crypt0-d00dz now.
19:13 Adlai not all secrets are equal
19:13 asciilifeform arbitrators won't immediately run off and do whatever the fuck they like with the secret because... because what? magical drm goggles glued onto their skulls?
19:14 asciilifeform i deliberately didn't even bring up the whole thing's (almost certain) reliance on tor and related idiocy
19:14 Adlai it's also written in C!!!
19:15 asciilifeform it's dreary and insults the reader's intelligence merely by existing.
19:15 asciilifeform https://github.com/u99/slur << lol! empty?
19:15 assbot u99/slur · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1xiAjOG )
19:21 cazalla i remember reading about these u99 guys, have another project named coinmesh
19:21 Adlai oh crap, they slapped a GPL on the null codebase. now every new project must be GPLed
19:21 cazalla really just seems a way to scam donations
19:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41786 @ 0.00060128 = 25.1251 BTC [+] {2}
~ 15 minutes ~
19:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26716 @ 0.00060266 = 16.1007 BTC [+]
19:40 dignork slur - like openbazaar, but no working prototype or code.
19:41 asciilifeform dignork: forget code. the thing, as stated on own site, doesn't even threaten to make elementary sense.
19:43 dignork well, same "Ricardian Contracts", but dumbed down and badly misused.
19:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25301 @ 0.00060888 = 15.4053 BTC [+]
19:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.00061555 = 30.9622 BTC [+] {4}
20:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00060882 = 11.2023 BTC [-] {3}
20:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59200 @ 0.00058006 = 34.3396 BTC [-] {2}
20:12 Adlai http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/
20:12 assbot The Toxoplasma Of Rage | Slate Star Codex ... ( http://bit.ly/13ZGWIM )
~ 22 minutes ~
20:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1389 @ 0.00119263 = 1.6566 BTC [-] {17}
20:37 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 876 @ 0.00119 = 1.0424 BTC [-]
20:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00057674 = 12.1404 BTC [-] {2}
20:45 Adlai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNudxZEIfqU and meanwhile, some sleep
20:45 assbot TATRAN - WW III (Album Version) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zUGKFo )
20:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31909 @ 0.00057489 = 18.3442 BTC [-] {2}
20:54 thestringpuller "The richest 500 addresses have continued to accumulate bitcoin through all the highs and lows."
20:58 kakobrekla !s blockchain return hack
20:58 assbot 0 results for 'blockchain return hack' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=blockchain+return+hack
21:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6380 @ 0.00055142 = 3.5181 BTC [-] {2}
21:14 thestringpuller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Fiesta_Bowl << so this was really a thing?
~ 17 minutes ~
21:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.00057126 = 24.5071 BTC [+] {2}
21:44 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17197 @ 0.00058063 = 9.9851 BTC [+]
21:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00059869 = 5.2685 BTC [+]
~ 16 minutes ~
22:09 decimation slur << that's the dumbest thing I've heard yet
22:12 decimation asciilifeform: re: ecc dram << the paper claims that they can cause so many errors that it overpowers 'correct one detect two' style ECC dram
22:13 decimation try buying a laptop with ecc dram
22:15 decimation http://www.acmeportable.com/products/netpac#specs-section << here's one, only weighs 24 lbs and comes with a fritz chip
22:15 assbot NetPAC ... ( http://bit.ly/1A74xmT )
22:22 asciilifeform decimation: overpowers << skeptical until demonstrated in field (i.e. x86 pc) rather than laboratory (fpga with custom dram controller)
22:23 * asciilifeform wrote a ddr2 controller for 'xilinx' chip once. it is amazingly easy to create a dysfunctional one with behaves like, for instance, the one pictured in that paper.
22:23 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
22:24 asciilifeform just forget a refresh sometimes. or violate one of the many mandatory command sequences.
22:24 asciilifeform or, or.
22:24 asciilifeform instant strange.
22:24 decimation yeah, that's a fair point
22:24 asciilifeform i experimented with using a 'refresh-starved' dram for computation.
22:24 asciilifeform and even as a particle detector.
22:24 asciilifeform snore.
22:24 decimation as kind of a pseudo analog computer?
22:25 asciilifeform nothing pseudo about it.
22:25 decimation did you succeed in detecting particles?
22:25 asciilifeform not to my satisfaction.
22:25 asciilifeform (certainly detected - something.)
22:25 decimation ideally one would find a simultaneous set of 'hits' over an area so one could backtrack the cosmic rays
22:26 asciilifeform works best with a 'sandwich' of dies.
22:26 decimation asciilifeform: there's probably an nda'ed talmud of errata that is supplied to the actual chipset dealers
22:26 Adlai how would you use it for computation?
22:26 decimation who knows if the authors had access to such knowledge
22:26 asciilifeform errata in dram ?
22:27 asciilifeform times are dire, if errata for dram.
22:27 decimation yeah w.r.t. exact timings, refresh rates, things
22:27 asciilifeform normally these are determined experimentally.
22:27 asciilifeform ask a 'bios tweak' aficionado.
22:27 * decimation hasn't closely examined a dram datasheet
22:28 asciilifeform decimation: http://www.eng.utah.edu/~cs5780/DRAM_datasheet.pdf << enjoy
22:28 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1A76U9d )
22:28 decimation lol
22:28 * asciilifeform had that one printed & bound
22:29 decimation asciilifeform: did you implement ddr2 bus on an fpga?
22:29 asciilifeform bus?
22:29 decimation I've heard from folks who have that it is a pain in the ass
22:29 asciilifeform it is
22:30 asciilifeform virtually impossible to do well from scratch (vs vendor turdware) without the unobtainable internal docs
22:30 decimation it can be done, it just takes many man-months of experimentation with a particular set of hardware
22:30 asciilifeform incidentally, fpga work shits straight into the faces of folks who think that 'anything can be slow-prototyped'
22:30 asciilifeform you can't slow-prototype a dram controller!
22:31 asciilifeform it's an all-or-nothing affair.
22:31 asciilifeform either runs, or not.
22:31 asciilifeform conform to the timing diagram - or die.
22:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33750 @ 0.00057621 = 19.4471 BTC [-] {2}
22:32 asciilifeform decimation: months of experimentation << the end result is a product which cannot be understood, function of which cannot be rationally explained, and which will break on the slightest deviation from the parent hardware
22:32 asciilifeform aka a turd.
22:32 decimation yeah, that's pretty much the case. the vhdl codebase is littered with 'don't touch this' crazy code
22:33 * asciilifeform will not read or write vhdl for love or money
22:33 asciilifeform verilog is at least tolerable
22:33 decimation vhdl comes with layers of bureaucracy
22:33 decimation all of which is abused by the vendor tools & magically wedged with vendor ip
22:34 asciilifeform xilinx ships a set of identially-functioning turdlibraries for both languages.
22:34 asciilifeform each ultimately a set of wrappers around closed blobs.
22:35 thestringpuller asciilifeform: i made an app, called the asciilifeform turd counter
22:35 thestringpuller :D
22:35 asciilifeform most of the more complicated ones being unusable in practice (e.g. ethernet controller that 'expires' after N frames)
22:35 asciilifeform unless you pony up serious dough.
22:36 decimation lol I didn't realize they had 'trialware' like that
22:36 decimation that's hilarious
22:36 asciilifeform at the risk of repeating the last 100+ xilinx threads - the closed architecture of -all- fpga vendors is specifically to enable this 'business model'
22:36 asciilifeform i.e. to prevent you from curing the ethernet card.
22:36 asciilifeform or sata card, or whatever.
22:36 asciilifeform also to prevent taking the design to another fpga.
22:37 decimation plus it's cash in their pocket
22:37 asciilifeform !s hard copy asic
22:37 assbot 0 results for 'hard copy asic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hard+copy+asic
22:37 asciilifeform !s hard copy fpga
22:37 assbot 0 results for 'hard copy fpga' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hard+copy+fpga
22:37 asciilifeform !s hard copy
22:37 assbot 6 results for 'hard copy' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hard+copy
22:38 decimation yeah you mentioned how vlsi asics are all hard copies of fpgas
22:38 asciilifeform not all.
22:38 asciilifeform just the bitcoin miners.
22:38 asciilifeform and other 'on the cheap' jobs.
22:38 asciilifeform but, it is conceivable that - at this point - all new designs.
22:39 decimation actually that reminds me, this is an interesting podcast: http://www.theamphour.com/228-an-interview-with-shahriar-from-the-signal-path-quisquous-quivering-quadripole/
22:39 assbot An Interview with Shahriar from The Signal Path - Quisquous Quivering Quadripole | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1A78JTP )
22:39 decimation the annoying australian and some guy from cleveland interview a guy who works for bell labs designing >100 ghz analog ics
22:40 asciilifeform afaik the only customer is usg.
22:41 decimation as I recall, the guy claimed that most of the high-end fabs use cadence tools
22:41 asciilifeform primarily for electronic arse search machines.
22:41 decimation asciilifeform: yeah and there are some esoteric telco applications too
22:41 asciilifeform aha and they won't even take your job if you aren't using cadence's cell libs.
22:41 asciilifeform iirc
22:42 asciilifeform mircea is mistaken when he writes that china controls ic manufacture.
22:43 decimation yeah the bell labs guy has issues hiring because very few schools are willing to pay the bezzlars required to actually experiment with high-end process
22:43 asciilifeform what does it mean if asia has all of the factories, but is utterly dependant on winblows and a stack of monopoly turdware as tall as empire state building ?
22:43 asciilifeform for which, i will point out, no practical substitutes are known or, afaik, even contemplated anywhere.
22:44 decimation asciilifeform: what it means is that they can enrich themselves privately by stamping out copies and selling shit on ebay
22:44 decimation but doesn't give them a single step toward 'making their own'
22:44 decimation yeah the bell labs guy said that they charge him $500k per year per seat
22:44 decimation which sounds cheap
22:44 asciilifeform the point is not the cost.
22:44 asciilifeform to china, or to me, and you, it's $0
22:45 asciilifeform to any 12 y.o. boy who knows what w4r3z is
22:45 asciilifeform point is the control.
22:45 asciilifeform and the winblows.
22:45 decimation yeah but how are you going to walk into a foundry with your warez design?
22:45 asciilifeform depends on who's foundry
22:45 asciilifeform but that also isn't the point
22:45 decimation if you pay $mils per year, people know who the hell you are
22:45 asciilifeform point is that 'w4r3z dangle' is a time-honoured usg tactic.
22:46 asciilifeform see the siberian pipeline incident.
22:46 asciilifeform chinese semiconductor industry, afaik, runs almost 100% on warez.
22:46 decimation so if a chinaman owns a foundry, and can get design warez, why not build & design own chips?
22:47 asciilifeform because - in all but one out of thousand cases - why???
22:47 decimation I guess he's getting paid to hustle for his usg masters
22:47 asciilifeform he gets paid to sell, e.g., electric dildoes with programmable waveforms.
22:47 asciilifeform they vibrate merrily, customers happy, the dough rolls in
22:47 asciilifeform what should he want on top of this ?
22:48 decimation from his point of view, he has a design team of usg zeks to work for him?
22:48 asciilifeform for the work to actually be his own, non-plagiarized? in the confucian world, this is actually an anti-value
22:49 decimation if the world were reversed and china was designing stuff for us foundries to stamp out, it would certainly be the case that us folks would try to do it themselves
22:49 asciilifeform i'll point out that the complexity of the designs, which makes straight plagiarism so irresistible to the asians, doesn't happen in a vacuum.
22:49 asciilifeform ever wonder whence we got the crock of shit that is usb ?
22:49 asciilifeform pci ?
22:50 decimation complexity is intentional, to lock everybody in
22:50 asciilifeform virtually every little gibblet of the entire stack
22:50 asciilifeform written guess where, by guess whom
22:51 decimation by zeks, who work for companies whose entire business model consists of locking people into their bullshit by whatever means
22:51 asciilifeform here's related story
22:52 asciilifeform every day i wonder why the 'arm' architecture so thoroughly beat 'mips' (closest competitor in the 'risc' world) in the markets
↖ ↖
22:52 asciilifeform despite being a steaming crock of shit compared to mips
22:52 asciilifeform (arm makes a mockery of the whole risc concept, hundreds of weird instructions with a multitude of modifier bits, hilariously varies addressing mechanisms, etc)
22:53 asciilifeform finally i arrived at an answer
22:53 decimation plus they regularly redo the entire instruction set
22:53 asciilifeform arm is sufficiently complex that folks were stuck licensing it verbatim, rather than reimplementing
22:53 decimation whereas skilled undergrad could make a mips cpu?
22:53 asciilifeform (an undergrad can throw a mips-compatible fpga core together in a day)
22:53 asciilifeform aha
22:54 asciilifeform hence arm (uk corp.) rolls in dough, without actually manufacturing anything at all
22:54 decimation yes, there is much wisdom here. the electronics market consists nearly entirely of lock-in, either by complexity, inertia, or usg enforcement (patents, etc)
22:54 decimation yet there's just enough 'freedom' to make the little people think that they actually control something
22:55 asciilifeform the old saw about 'freedom of the press' belonging to the fellow with the press;
22:55 decimation asciilifeform: this (arm's) was almost exactly the same business model as qualcomm's
22:55 asciilifeform the freedom of the semiconductor belongs - not! to the fellow with the factory - but the one who controlls the entire process stack
22:55 asciilifeform presently that's usg.
22:55 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 162 @ 0.12459819 = 20.1849 BTC [+] {8}
22:55 decimation except they achieved lock-in by getting usg to enforce their comms standard & getting the cell phone ownership to agree
22:56 asciilifeform the actual nervous system of usg is not the muppets with the microphones
22:56 asciilifeform it's the qualcomms.
22:56 decimation yes
22:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26370 @ 0.00057123 = 15.0633 BTC [-] {2}
22:56 decimation and they are largely powered by academic types who are 'do-ocracy' types
22:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20639 @ 0.00059159 = 12.2098 BTC [+] {2}
23:00 decimation asciilifeform: qualcomms, intels, arms, exxons, ibms, beltway bandits
23:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6361 @ 0.00062037 = 3.9462 BTC [+]
23:01 decimation they make & implement usg policy, and allow stooges to stand in front of the microphones to take the heat
23:01 asciilifeform the physical components of a mega-chumpatron have to be made somewhere.
23:01 decimation stooges for that too
23:02 decimation 'give us stuff in exchange for these really valuable promises to pay bezzlars!'
23:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.0006212 = 7.8582 BTC [+] {2}
23:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14770 @ 0.00055184 = 8.1507 BTC [-] {2}
23:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00054191 = 11.5969 BTC [-]
23:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20500 @ 0.00054191 = 11.1092 BTC [-]
23:44 thestringpuller !t m s.mpoe
23:44 assbot [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00053527 / 0.00059403 / 0.00065647 (1072172 shares, 636.91 BTC), 7D: 0.00053527 / 0.00061436 / 0.00072352 (5319005 shares, 3,267.82 BTC), 30D: 0.00030027 / 0.00048802 / 0.00072352 (39711657 shares, 19,380.13 BTC)
23:45 thestringpuller wow that escalated quickly
23:52 mats is good stuff
23:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28735 @ 0.00054319 = 15.6086 BTC [+]
23:55 Adlai so what's the roadmap for liberating honest silicon's ability to self-reproduce from the monkeys that are trying to choke it down?
23:55 asciilifeform who does Adlai think knows the answer to this ?
23:56 Adlai nobody, although people who care should at least have some crazy dreams
23:56 asciilifeform ah that's easy.
23:59 Adlai given sufficient raw materials and chuck moore replicants, it should be possible to build a stack clean in both hard- and software.
23:59 mats i hate you
← 2014-12-23 | 2014-12-25 → ↑

Random(trilema) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code

Theme: Light | Dark | System Default