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search trilema search all chans

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00:03	BingoBoingo	!up xinxiwang
00:03	BingoBoingo	Hello xinxiwang
00:04	xinxiwang	thanks.
00:04	xinxiwang	Hello
00:04	xinxiwang	long time no see
00:06	BingoBoingo	How have things been recently?
00:08	xinxiwang	great. How are you?
00:10	BingoBoingo	Oh, busy
00:24	asciilifeform	decimation: i don't get it. with what 'modern' thing would you have them replace the 'enfields', and why ?
00:32	pete_dushenski	right. canada knows that new=bad
00:32	pete_dushenski	thus cf18 fighter jets are still going strong
00:33	pete_dushenski	canada also relies largely on southern neighbour's big stick
00:34	pete_dushenski	"A US man has been handed a US$500,000 fine for selling the StealthGenie malware in the first prosecution of a mobile spyware slinger. Police collared Hammad Akbar, 31, in September after he allegedly sold the malware to an undercover agent in 2012."
00:34	asciilifeform	serious technical question. how exactly might one improve on a 1890s rifle in the given application (almost never fired; when fired - typically, at large land animals (hence, want full sized cartridge); extreme cold; etc
00:35	pete_dushenski	i wonder what they're going to slap the dogecoin android miner guy with. 1 trillion doge!
00:35	pete_dushenski	asciilifeform with electronix?
00:36	asciilifeform	with death ray.
00:36	pete_dushenski	mounted on mooseback
00:36	asciilifeform	'howdah.'
00:37	pete_dushenski	'hihowareyah'
00:37	asciilifeform	;;google howdah pistol
00:37	gribble	Howdah pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howdah_pistol>; Pedersoli Howdah Hunter 20-Ga. Pistol : Cabela's: <http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Howdah-Hunter-Ga-Pistol/740261.uts>; American Guns: Howdah Pistol Reveal : Video : Discovery Channel: <http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/american-guns/videos/howdah-pistol-reveal.htm>
00:38	pete_dushenski	heh or that
00:39	pete_dushenski	i was thinking more along the lines of...
00:39	pete_dushenski	;;google what makes the red man red
00:39	gribble	Disney's Peter Pan - What Makes The Red Man Red ? - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_at9dOElQk>; Peter Pan - What Makes The Red Man Red (English) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7yE8TKUB_M>; What Made the Red Man Red? - DisneyWiki: <http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/What_Made_the_Red_Man_Red%3F>
00:44	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4210 @ 0.00034947 = 1.4713 BTC [+]
00:45	decimation	asciilifeform: well, what about a rifle system that was designed from the ground up to work in very cold conditions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare
00:45	assbot	Accuracy International Arctic Warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1rJSSJh )
00:46	decimation	my point was less about the enfields and more about the 'barely-exists' nature of canada's military, when compared to potential rivals in the arctic
00:47	pete_dushenski	the area to be protected is simply too large given the population of the country
00:47	pete_dushenski	so, why bother?
00:47	decimation	well, because maybe they can charge gst on chinese tankers or whatever
00:49	pete_dushenski	lol
00:49	pete_dushenski	or canada can choose not to spend a dime protecting it
00:49	pete_dushenski	and charge china gst for as long as china wants to play nice.
00:50	decimation	yeah, it will be interesting to see how that all ends up
00:50	decimation	at any rate, I'm off to bed, night all
00:50	pete_dushenski	canada is just choosing the path of least resistance and will continue to do so
00:50	pete_dushenski	cheers
00:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.00034827 = 10.8312 BTC [-] {3}
01:00	pete_dushenski	https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/539297746084442112
01:00	assbot	Evry btc company needs a /VitalikButerin or /gavinandresen . /Cancoin has /lastcanal , lead architect & heady genius single handedly winning
01:00	pete_dushenski	every btc company needs more scam!
01:00	pete_dushenski	truer words...
01:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00035053 = 7.5714 BTC [+] {2}
01:27	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25311 @ 0.00034181 = 8.6516 BTC [-]
01:30	BingoBoingo	http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/bosnian-community-in-st-louis-outraged-over-fatal-hammer-attack/article_9f15bf49-c8b7-5bc3-8671-ac291f666084.html
01:30	assbot	Bosnian community in St. Louis outraged over fatal hammer attack in Bevo Mill neighborhood : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQzS0t )
01:31	BingoBoingo	^ “I don’t know why this is happening to Bosnians. We could go around and shoot people, too, but we just want peace.”
		~ 20 minutes ~
01:51	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77700 @ 0.0003476 = 27.0085 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 56 minutes ~
02:48	mircea_popescu	http://bitbet.us/bet/1049/silver-to-fall-under-15-oz-before-december-27th/ dude this bet...
02:48	assbot	BitBet - Silver to fall under $15/oz before December 27th :: 8.63 B (52%) on Yes, 8.08 B (48%) on No | closed 3 hours 31 minutes ago ... ( http://bit.ly/12cCAxh )
02:48	mircea_popescu	one of the more wow upsets on bitbet.
02:50	BingoBoingo	Everything is crashing
02:50	cazalla	http://qntra.net/2014/12/qntra-s-qntr-november-2014-statement/
02:50	assbot	Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2014 Statement | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/12cD3PO )
02:50	cazalla	prolly shitcan the coinroll advert
02:53	mircea_popescu	yeah, as a general policy it's ok to take per-conversion deals with things that for whatever good reason sell themselves.
02:53	mircea_popescu	but with stuff in oversaturated novelty markets... let em pay cpm.
02:57	mircea_popescu	cazalla did it actually run the whole month ?
02:58	BingoBoingo	It came into being mid month
02:58	BingoBoingo	Oh, dunno that it even had two weeks
03:00	cazalla	mircea_popescu, no, about 1/2 the month if that
03:00	mircea_popescu	aha.
03:01	cazalla	was the 20th so not even 2 weeks but still
03:01	mircea_popescu	so wait, out of the 10k uniques quantcast reports for a whole month that leaves like 4k people, of which ~80 clicked ?
03:01	mircea_popescu	are you fucking shitting me, you're getting 2% ctrs ?!
03:01	mircea_popescu	this is what, 100x gawker ? jesus this thing is sweet.
03:01	assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/002MQAA.txt )
03:01	BingoBoingo	!b 2
03:02	mircea_popescu	CTR hasn't been over 1% since like 1998]
03:03	cazalla	pssh, some of my adsense sites did way better than that but every fkn link was adsense
03:04	mircea_popescu	im not talking here for whatever made-for-x astroturf
03:05	mircea_popescu	just, you know, a newspaper.
03:05	cazalla	i know but point is, CTR could be 100% but who cares if it didn't convert to a paying customer, total revenue this month = 0
03:05	mircea_popescu	not the publisher's job to make the sale.
03:06	cazalla	yes, so i vote we remove the advert and offer spots per cpm
03:06	mircea_popescu	you want to be on qntra, you pay to be on qntra. let all the coin* sites have the "we'll do your job for you" deals.
03:07	mircea_popescu	i don't think we even bother selling it until it shows great numbers and they come bangin' on the door.
03:07	mircea_popescu	course that raises the problem of wtf are great numbers.
03:08	cazalla	just charge in proportion to current numbers, increase as great numbers arrive
03:08	cazalla	maybe i'll whack up a sponsorship page outlining the demographics per quantcast
03:09	mircea_popescu	problem is like this : advertising is association. think of it like a woman (the publisher) getting married (the advertiser).
03:09	mircea_popescu	now, the time flows inversely, because these things improve with age
03:09	mircea_popescu	nevertheless, take a case like eva peron : prostitute at 15, singer/dancer at 17,
03:09	mircea_popescu	would you want to marry her at 20 ?
03:09	mircea_popescu	unless you're peron, she's gonna be a waitress.
03:10	cazalla	6 months in BA and you're singing don't cry for me Argentina
03:10	mircea_popescu	lol
03:10	mircea_popescu	these people are beyond fucking clueless btw, im half tempted to write an article.
03:11	mircea_popescu	cazalla btw, http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/coindesk.com
03:11	assbot	coindesk.com Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/12cJp1A )
03:11	mircea_popescu	gave up ?
03:11	cazalla	http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/cryptocoinsnews.com
03:11	assbot	cryptocoinsnews.com Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/12cJEtA )
03:12	cazalla	i was going to attribute traffic drop to 2014 being somewhat of a write off but ccn is up and up so perhaps some penguin/panda styled penalty on coindesk, who knows
03:12	BingoBoingo	Coindesk still publishes text..
03:13	mircea_popescu	isn't ccn mostly run as an mfa ?
03:14	cazalla	yeah, various authors so there is your cheap content to publish constantly
03:17	cazalla	so what is the solution/plan, the site is going into its third month, it would be nice to generate some revenue even if it is only a small amount
03:19	mircea_popescu	why ?
03:19	mircea_popescu	what i mean specifically : the site is generating excellent revenue as it is. none of which is monetary.
03:20	mircea_popescu	the conversion is very expensive, and not really necessary, so why bother.
03:23	cazalla	because there comes a point where i can make more working mcdonalds and using mcbucks to buy btc instead of qntra to btc for my efforts
03:24	cazalla	it's not an immediate need, looking more towards long term, do i look back after a year and think yes, on a per hour basis, this earned more btc than turning my mcbucks to bitcoin
03:25	mircea_popescu	cazalla just sell some shares neh ?
03:26	cazalla	that's like sacrificing long term for right now though
03:26	mircea_popescu	what i mean is : qntra is a bitcoin property. if bitcoin does well and qntra does well, it's not possible in a year for it to not be worth btc.
03:26	mircea_popescu	if you seek insurance against bitcoin doing well but qntra doing poorly, you can rebalance your shares-btc holdings proportions
03:34	mircea_popescu	http://variety.com/2014/digital/news/new-sony-films-pirated-in-wake-of-hack-attack-1201367036/
03:34	assbot	Advertisement ... ( http://bit.ly/1y2qyOX )
03:34	mircea_popescu	ahem.
03:34	mircea_popescu	ew what the shit variety.
03:34	mircea_popescu	dude the world's gone to shit.
03:34	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93466 @ 0.00034163 = 31.9308 BTC [-] {2}
03:36	mircea_popescu	“The theft of Sony Pictures Entertainment content is a criminal matter, and we are working closely with law enforcement to address it,” a Sony spokeswoman said in a statement to Variety.
03:36	mircea_popescu	apparently mpaa is doing so well in its war with the internet, it reminds one of the glory of the us military in the middle and far east.
03:37	BingoBoingo	Indeed http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11367056
03:37	assbot	Kim Dotcom avoids jail after bail hearing - National - NZ Herald News ... ( http://bit.ly/1y2rdA1 )
03:39	mircea_popescu	jaja he looks like such a total derp.
03:40	BingoBoingo	Totally, and this is who the MPAA is losing to.
03:41	mircea_popescu	not even, they got raped by some script kiddy group lol.
03:42	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00034145 = 12.9751 BTC [-] {2}
03:42	BingoBoingo	Sure in this latest loss, but they can't even win against the derps they catch.
03:42	mircea_popescu	"He said the US had refused to supply the content of the electronic communications on which many of the allegations were made."
03:42	mircea_popescu	dude i don't get this shit.
03:43	mircea_popescu	can i now impeach obama on the basis of some sex tapes in which he's fucking his daughters ?
03:43	mircea_popescu	im not releasing the tapes btw. so when's the impeachment ?
03:45	BingoBoingo	Don't see it happening later than august.
03:48	BingoBoingo	Once the new congress comes in in January they'll probably find something to latch on to.
03:53	mircea_popescu	cazalla "*This includes a deduction of 175 words"
03:53	mircea_popescu	does that mean i have to substract 175 or not ?
03:54	mircea_popescu	the proper way to say it about a negative is "this excludes" or "this accounts for". so which of the two ?
03:55	mircea_popescu	also
03:55	mircea_popescu	;;calc 6774+5927+1408+315+81
03:55	gribble	14505
03:55	mircea_popescu	not 14541
03:55	mircea_popescu	a nm, dyslexia strikes again lol. 351
03:58	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00034219 = 12.1477 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 15 minutes ~
04:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66309 @ 0.000341 = 22.6114 BTC [-]
04:21	cazalla	mircea_popescu, it means i have already deducted what needed removing
04:21	mircea_popescu	cool.
04:21	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/qntra-sqntr-november-2014-statement/
04:21	assbot	Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z7m2B0 )
04:25	cazalla	mircea_popescu: the proper way to say it about a negative is "this excludes" or "this accounts for". so which of the two ? <<< will keep in mind for december
04:25	mircea_popescu	lol
04:26	mircea_popescu	it's so disonant for me, fucking summer over here. xmas is coming ? hum.
04:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9650 @ 0.00034257 = 3.3058 BTC [+]
04:28	cazalla	white xmas in romania?
04:29	mircea_popescu	always
04:31	mircea_popescu	http://live.coinbr.com/?mpsic=S.MPOE << monthly chart looks like a fucking coronary
04:31	assbot	CoinBr Live S.MPOE ... ( http://bit.ly/1z7nJ1a )
04:32	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90500 @ 0.00034087 = 30.8487 BTC [-] {2}
04:44	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30155 @ 0.00034016 = 10.2575 BTC [-] {2}
04:47	cazalla	still not a peep out of bitpay despite their promise that this years bitcoin black friday would be bigger than previous year
04:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65316 @ 0.00033898 = 22.1408 BTC [-] {2}
04:57	mircea_popescu	awww.
05:06	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46450 @ 0.00034602 = 16.0726 BTC [+] {2}
05:16	punkman	supposed to be winter here, a balmy 24 C
05:18	mircea_popescu	heh
05:25	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70939 @ 0.00033872 = 24.0285 BTC [-] {3}
05:33	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00033857 = 9.1075 BTC [-]
05:40	mircea_popescu	!t m s.qntr
05:40	assbot	[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (297 shares, 0.04 BTC), 7D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (297 shares, 0.04 BTC), 30D: 0.00013514 / 0.00013792 / 0.00015 (4411 shares, 0.61 BTC)
05:40	mircea_popescu	lol the cuteness.
05:40	mircea_popescu	;;calc 109786 * 0.00013792
05:40	gribble	15.14168512
05:40	mircea_popescu	15 btc mkt cap!
05:42	mircea_popescu	and one of those rare situations where there's more buyside than the whole equity, by a wide margin. even if you discount the penny offers.
		~ 16 minutes ~
05:59	punkman	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30216638
05:59	assbot	BBC News - Vinyl record sales hit 18-year high ... ( http://bit.ly/1waSq84 )
06:00	mircea_popescu	anyone still has a tardstalk account ?
06:00	cazalla	http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/ i can just see one of these donking off player funds in some degen moment
06:00	assbot	Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1waSNPZ )
06:00	mircea_popescu	me2.
06:01	cazalla	can't remember my tardstalk account pwd
06:12	cazalla	looks like matonis is a fan of qntra http://i.imgur.com/vnavBv4.png
06:12	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1waWhC2 )
06:14	mircea_popescu	how much stock you gonna put in twitter lists.
06:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27480 @ 0.00034541 = 9.4919 BTC [+] {2}
06:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7389 @ 0.00034622 = 2.5582 BTC [+]
06:17	cazalla	not much considering i'm still waiting to be unbanned for making violent threats which i did not even make
06:18	cazalla	least they can do is unban, allow me to make threats, reapply ban
06:25	mircea_popescu	lol
06:25	mircea_popescu	care less, live longer.
		~ 25 minutes ~
06:51	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45500 @ 0.00034543 = 15.7171 BTC [-]
06:55	adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-12-2014#939313 < of all people, you should only tolerate tax rates up to 10%
06:55	assbot	Logged on 01-12-2014 04:41:18; decimation: I'm okay with a high VAT/GST/sales tax if it comes with no income tax
06:56	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/bitbet-sbbet-november-2014-statement/
06:56	assbot	BitBet (S.BBET) November 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHoTTd )
06:56	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla ^
06:57	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38154 @ 0.00034079 = 13.0025 BTC [-] {2}
06:57	mircea_popescu	tl;dr : best month since may 2013
07:00	nubbins`	ooo
07:01	mircea_popescu	course may-april 2013 15 btc was like 50 bux.
07:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18011 @ 0.00034622 = 6.2358 BTC [+]
07:07	mircea_popescu	so i was thinking, aren't these dating sites and dating generally completely inequitable ?
07:07	mircea_popescu	why should companies not be allowed to only hire white people, but dudes dating be allowed to only date women ? or straight people ? or w/e ?
07:08	mircea_popescu	i hope the rainbow party doesn't stop with the gay marriage victory and goes to the core of the problem.
07:08	adlai	"this is not even my final form!" - socialism
07:08	mircea_popescu	equal fucking opportunity dating!
07:08	mircea_popescu	one shouldn't be rejected merely because he is allegedly of the wrong gender.
07:08	mircea_popescu	adlai lol quite.
07:10	adlai	it's funny/perfectlylogical how the biggest dating site is also the biggest gun running site
07:11	punkman	which one is that?
07:11	adlai	well, maybe not gun *running*, but it's definitely a brisker trade than SR
07:11	adlai	facebook
07:12	mircea_popescu	adlai yep. yet somehow that never gets mentioned.
07:12	mircea_popescu	"feds close down 5 dedicated bitcoin-based drug trading sites, accounting together for <1% of online drug trade. the principal drug trading hub online, facebook, remains unaffected"
07:13	mircea_popescu	cazalla ^ perspective for teh next time lol. it didn't occur to me back then
07:13	punkman	topix is pretty big with drug sellers
07:14	mircea_popescu	o is it /
07:14	punkman	or rather was
07:14	punkman	http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/2/4795430/amidst-silk-roads-takedown-topix-still-a-haven-for-drug-dealers
07:14	assbot	Silk Road may be gone, but Topix is still a haven for drug dealers | The Verge ... ( http://bit.ly/15MmhIR )
07:14	mircea_popescu	aha
07:14	mircea_popescu	so they even know about, just, won't mention the bezzle corps.
07:14	nubbins`	sms is full of drug dealers
07:15	nubbins`	but it's decentralized
07:15	mircea_popescu	doies tribune still own topix btw ?
07:17	punkman	example: http://www.topix.com/forum/health/back-pain/T5CM84VAP8M78R86U
07:17	assbot	Oxy pain meds in NYC - Topix ... ( http://bit.ly/15Mmr33 )
07:18	punkman	http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/montreal-qc/T0U013KMGTL5BU2PV
07:18	assbot	Oxycodone In Montreal - Topix ... ( http://bit.ly/15MmuvA )
07:18	mircea_popescu	stil lthis entire "pills are drugs nao" online kiddie kick ?
07:19	adlai	iirc pain pills are the most-addicted-to drug in bezzland, followed by mood pills
07:19	mircea_popescu	Topix's main user base consists of posters from small cities and towns in the United States, particularly those with several thousand or hundred residents. Few people from major American cities use Topix. Topix has a large following in Appalachia, rural areas in the Southern United States, and the Ozarks. Discussions that traditionally took place in person in rural areas began to be posted on Topix. Chris Tolles, the c
07:19	mircea_popescu	hief executive of Topix LLC, said that Topix is very popular in "the feud states".
07:19	mircea_popescu	ahaha check that shit out. i had no idea.
07:20	mircea_popescu	adlai i have nfi how you can be "addicted" to oxycodone.
07:20	adlai	same way you can be "addicted" to heroin?
07:20	punkman	those idiots actually try to smoke or IV pills
07:20	adlai	you don't have to own a needle or a crack pipe to be an addict
07:21	punkman	or all the retarded kids that crush up ritalin and snort it
07:21	mircea_popescu	the oxycodone aka heorin argument sounds to me like a hipster's bike aka armored persone carrier argument
07:21	mircea_popescu	sure, they both got wheels. o.O
07:22	mircea_popescu	punkman back when i was that age, idiots snorted powdered sugar, to pretend like they're whatever.
07:22	mircea_popescu	movie stars i guess.
07:23	mircea_popescu	visotsky, whatever.
07:23	cazalla	i'll stick to nutmeg and banana skins
07:23	mircea_popescu	cazalla you know most of not-totally-poor africa makes brisk trade in fake papyrus made out of banana peels ?
07:24	mircea_popescu	they paint that shit and sell it to idiot whitey by the barge.
07:24	cazalla	i would not know this, i thought jenkem was only export
07:25	nubbins`	<+mircea_popescu> adlai i have nfi how you can be "addicted" to oxycodone. <<< uhhhh.... o.O
07:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59375 @ 0.00033786 = 20.0604 BTC [-] {2}
07:27	nubbins`	"once the initial buzz or hit has worn down, most addicts report that their is little to no difference between H or Oxycodone"
07:27	mircea_popescu	what do these holy users of all-knowing importance report of the difference between windows and ubuntu ?
07:27	mircea_popescu	i totally care what a bunch of fucktards report, it's like, tantamout to science this.
07:28	adlai	well being addicted to the rush is a whole separate beast
07:28	mircea_popescu	"most people report sun and moon visibly the same size to naked eye"
07:28	adlai	"most people blinded by mysterious occurence at noon. more news at 1pm"
07:29	mircea_popescu	wait, no, i got better. "most eaters report no substandial difference between i-cant-believe-its-not-butter and butter"
07:29	nubbins`	let me try another tack
07:29	mircea_popescu	i was having fun with this one ;/
07:30	mircea_popescu	i was saving the "their" even!
07:30	nubbins`	you have no fucking idea how people can get addicted to snorting opiates, compressing a controlled 24-hour release into about half an hour?
07:30	nubbins`	lel @ their ;/
07:30	nubbins`	their is three errors in this sentance
07:30	mircea_popescu	oxycodone is an "opiate" in the sense your average 300 lb social sciences postgrad is a "woman"
07:31	mircea_popescu	ie, nominally.
07:31	adlai	what are we even arguing about though?
07:31	mircea_popescu	NOT functionally.
07:31	adlai	there are still poppy tea addicts today, too
07:31	nubbins`	hm.
07:31	adlai	so what?
07:31	nubbins`	would you call morphine an opiate?
07:31	mircea_popescu	yes.
07:31	nubbins`	suppose i told you that oxycodone is 1.5x the strength?
07:31	mircea_popescu	i definitely can see how one can be addicted to morphine.
07:32	mircea_popescu	on what, molar basis ?
07:32	adlai	probably binding affinity?
07:33	nubbins`	i've erased enough chem from my brain to not be able to definitively say "yes" to that, but i mean 10mg of morphine = 6.67mg of oxy
07:33	nubbins`	http://globalrph.com/narcoticonv.htm
07:33	assbot	Opioid converter, opioid conversions, pain management. ... ( http://bit.ly/15MndwI )
07:33	nubbins`	"equianalgesic"
07:34	mircea_popescu	nubbins` they're rather close anyway, so mass works nearly good enough
07:34	nubbins`	well there ya go.
07:34	nubbins`	anyway, with orally-taken morphine as a "1"
07:34	nubbins`	oxys are a 1.5, IV/IM morphine is a 3
07:35	adlai	these are child opiates though, let's compare them to fentanyl
07:35	mircea_popescu	anyway, that's more of a cargo-cultapproach to this science ("i know it's strong because this is how the doctors use it")
07:35	nubbins`	fentanyl is in the 50-100 range
07:35	mircea_popescu	as best i can see, oxycodone is more like codeine than heroin.
07:35	nubbins`	codeine's listed as 1/10
07:35	*	nubbins` shrugs
07:36	nubbins`	i can only imagine there are endless clinical trials behind these numbers
07:36	nubbins`	but anyway.
07:36	nubbins`	people get addicted to oxy like nothing else
07:36	mircea_popescu	yes, but geared towards a different set of objectives.
07:36	nubbins`	it's available everywhere -- WAY more readily so than street opiates
07:36	mircea_popescu	let me put it this way : make a buffet with 10 lb bowls of pure powder.
07:36	mircea_popescu	one of each substance you test
07:36	mircea_popescu	see what % usage you meet.
07:37	mircea_popescu	how many people will be snorting your oxycodone when heroin directly available right next to it ?
07:37	adlai	can we fill the third bowl with salvinorin B?
07:37	nubbins`	HEH
07:37	nubbins`	adlai salv A only
07:37	adlai	*ethoxymethyl ether
07:37	nubbins`	mircea_popescu sure, but this is not an argument against oxy's addictive qualities
07:38	mircea_popescu	right...
07:38	mircea_popescu	because logic ?
07:38	nubbins`	people will choose filet mignon over a big mac, doesn't mean they're not picking up mcd's every day on the ride home
07:38	mircea_popescu	"i'm in love with X, manifested by the fact that whenever there's no naked swimsuit models splayed on my bedspread, i fuck X"
07:38	mircea_popescu	nubbins` so then are they fucking addicted to the big mac lawl.
07:39	nubbins`	love != addiction
07:39	adlai	there are also reasons outside pharmacology
07:39	mircea_popescu	orly.
07:39	nubbins`	^ (let's see what tangent this spawns)
07:39	*	adlai wouldn't be surprised if many americans addicted to oxy, never took a "real drug" before
07:39	nubbins`	^
07:39	nubbins`	most of the addicts here are on pharms
07:39	adlai	it's the gateway pill!
07:39	adlai	that, or xanax
07:39	mircea_popescu	"oxycodone : how the idiot generation is getting all the drawbacks of opioid dosing with none of the benefits"
07:40	mircea_popescu	so much of contemporary us is all about being incredibly stupid...
07:40	nubbins`	there are benefits?
07:40	adlai	no, that's kratom
07:40	nubbins`	i mean, sure, if you're a musician
07:40	nubbins`	take up heroin, you'll make your best work
07:40	nubbins`	but otherwise?
07:40	mircea_popescu	nubbins` and if you're not a musician NOBODY WILL HEAR ABOUT IT
07:40	nubbins`	^
07:40	mircea_popescu	still your best work, just, shitty & obscure. like you.
07:40	adlai	"I think the dark side of the moon is worth 100 dead kids" - maher
07:41	*	nubbins` claps
07:41	nubbins`	adlai incidentally i was in a buyer's club for salvia for a period of time
07:41	punkman	adlai: kratom's pretty interesting
07:41	nubbins`	mad bulk discounts
07:41	mircea_popescu	dude srsly, chewing treebark ?
07:42	mircea_popescu	shall there be no end of this "i smoke oregano the older kids sold to me as a mockery BECAUSE I ENJOY IT!"
07:42	nubbins`	srsly, lighting plants on fire and breathing the smoke? ;/
07:42	mircea_popescu	fucking denial of doom...
07:42	*	adlai has never tried verified salvia, the one time somebody brought over "salvia" it was more similar to expired mint leaves, and about as potent
07:42	mircea_popescu	let's all be ironic and smoke cow dung.
07:42	nubbins`	"Kratom behaves as a μ-opioid receptor"
07:42	nubbins`	:o
07:42	nubbins`	well til
07:42	mircea_popescu	adlai i had a bush in my garden
07:42	adlai	that's nothing, i had two in my white house
07:43	mircea_popescu	and no, i never fucking smoked it.
07:43	nubbins`	also incidentally, salvinorin is a kappa-opiod agonist
07:43	nubbins`	but not an opiate
07:43	adlai	salvia is like an anti-opiate
07:43	nubbins`	it's like an anti-drug
07:43	punkman	nubbins`: cup of kratom tea, great substitute for coffee
07:43	adlai	you take one hit bro and you're not addicted anymore, man, you can do anything you want
07:43	nubbins`	punkman: hit of 10x salvia extract, great substitute for a ten-strip of owsley acid
07:43	adlai	how is a cup of a mild opiate a great substitute for a mild stim
07:44	adlai	too much logic in here
07:44	*	adlai dogwalks
07:44	mircea_popescu	logic is a drug!
07:44	nubbins`	^
07:44	punkman	adlai, it's also a stimulant in small doses
07:44	mircea_popescu	love is the logic antidrug
07:44	nubbins`	iirc salvinorin is actually the most potent naturally-occuring drug
07:44	mircea_popescu	and addiction is merely bioactive irony
07:44	adlai	"TV is the first electric drug... somebody else's trip, plus advertisements" - mckenna
07:44	nubbins`	heh
07:45	nubbins`	my cells are screaming in pain ironically
07:45	adlai	addiction is brilliant, for the plants
07:45	mircea_popescu	nubbins` they pretend like it's painful... but it's not.
07:45	mircea_popescu	ha-ha.
07:45	adlai	your brain cells LOVE addiction
07:45	adlai	maybe a few don't, but nobody listens to them anymore
07:45	mircea_popescu	my brain is almost entirely made of this later sort.
07:46	mircea_popescu	no black brain cells over here.
07:46	nubbins`	so you think
07:46	mircea_popescu	i kinda know, actually.
07:48	adlai	I guess nobody listens to you anymore! :P
07:49	mircea_popescu	totally.
07:49	mats_cd03	salvia is filthy
07:50	nubbins`	i'd paint it more as intensely bizarre
07:50	nubbins`	it's wholly unlike anything else
07:50	mats_cd03	felt like needles on my skin and dying
07:50	mats_cd03	nothx
07:50	nubbins`	heh.
07:50	nubbins`	i experienced complete synesthesia once on it
07:51	nubbins`	classical hallucinogens like lsd, psilo, etc will fuck with / change / alter your perceptions
07:51	nubbins`	"the carpet is moving" "the walls are bleeding" etc
07:51	nubbins`	salvia just drops you into another place entirely. you're not sitting on your bed looking at your bedside table, you're in the produce section of the grocery store watching people smell your colors
07:52	nubbins`	or you're a sheet of wallpaper in a strange room
07:52	nubbins`	or w/e
07:52	mircea_popescu	eh get out.
07:52	*	nubbins` shrugs
07:52	nubbins`	i didn't grok "weird" until i tried salvia
07:52	mircea_popescu	takes a very impressionable sort. it's more you than it's it
07:53	nubbins`	i thought i did, but nope.
07:53	punkman	was a long time, but I can attest to that
07:53	nubbins`	mircea_popescu i vehemently disagree
07:53	mircea_popescu	and for that money, you could probably have the same results if you just sat on your back and watched the clouds go by long enough
07:53	nubbins`	bahaha
07:53	mats_cd03	ive never felt that fucked up on anything other than salvia
07:54	mats_cd03	and it will only be that one time in high school
07:54	nubbins`	mircea_popescu while i can't quantify my "impressionability", you're so far off-base here that i don't know where to begin
07:54	cazalla	i took 2 aspirin instead of 1 once upon a time
07:54	nubbins`	salvia puts you on fucking mars.
07:54	cazalla	i watched some guys have awful trips on salvia on youtube, you couldn't pay me to smoke that
07:54	mircea_popescu	nubbins` didn't put him on mars, what of that ?
07:55	punkman	can be hard to get the right dose
07:55	nubbins`	mircea_popescu the vaporization point of salvinorin is far higher than the temperature of the cherried, smouldering plant. you can quite easily "smoke it wrong".
07:55	nubbins`	correct method is to blast it with a butane torch while inhaling
07:56	mircea_popescu	some people get really elated watching theatre. heck, most 9yos spend the rest of the day doing weirdo dance move things after their first action movie experience.
07:56	nubbins`	otherwise, little to no effects, mostly uncomfortable physical feelings
07:56	mircea_popescu	"they're superman nao!"
07:56	*	nubbins` shakes head
07:56	mircea_popescu	doesn't this thing burn at all ?
07:57	nubbins`	if i'm parsing this correctly, you're equating a salvia high to a form of elevated excitement
07:57	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00033985 = 8.8361 BTC [+]
07:57	mircea_popescu	seems to me if high temperature is required the correct approach is not a butane torch but a thermostat hotplate.
07:58	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63950 @ 0.00034054 = 21.7775 BTC [+] {2}
07:58	mircea_popescu	nubbins` im merely bringing the argument that an inclination to be impressed with what one sees and a tendency to get excited about what's directly seen is more a thing of youth than a thing of humanity.
07:58	nubbins`	mircea_popescu: certainly, and there's no argument on that point.
07:58	mircea_popescu	in the same vein with "i won a million bucks in the reader's digest mailing, look!"
07:58	nubbins`	however, i'd taken relatively large doses of several different hallucinogens by the time i discovered salvia
07:59	mircea_popescu	well if there's no argument on that point, then there's no argument on the "watch the clouds" point either
07:59	mircea_popescu	they being the same.
07:59	nubbins`	and i knew precisely what hallucination vs impression/excitability was
07:59	mircea_popescu	exactly, huh ?
07:59	nubbins`	and i'm telling you that about 20 seconds after you inhale a lungful of salvia smoke, everything you see and hear and feel around you is just GONE and replaced with something else.
07:59	mircea_popescu	let's translate this logic.
08:00	nubbins`	like, completely gone.
08:00	mircea_popescu	"i know exactly how garza scams, having watched a number of his scams in trhe past, and i can assure you this one's legit"
08:00	nubbins`	not "o i feel funny"
08:00	mircea_popescu	something like that ?
08:00	nubbins`	but "o, i am physically in a different place"
08:01	nubbins`	or "o, it feels like my jaw has detached from my head and is wrapping tightly around my neck, coil after unending coil"
08:01	nubbins`	or "o, how long was i out? who broke all this glass?"
08:02	mircea_popescu	this happens to me naturally anyway.
08:02	nubbins`	well i guess you don't need to smoke salvia
08:02	mircea_popescu	!s "how long was i asleep"
08:02	assbot	0 results for '"how long was i asleep"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22how+long+was+i+asleep%22
08:02	mircea_popescu	eh gtfo.
08:02	nubbins`	can't, i'm a lord or smth
08:02	mircea_popescu	not you lol, assbot
08:02	nubbins`	HEH
08:02	mircea_popescu	i know i've said it dozens of times! THOUSANDS!
08:03	*	danielpbarron has smoked salvia
08:03	nubbins`	hyperbole aside, i actually cannot recommend that anyone try smoking salvia
08:03	nubbins`	i don't want the responsibility
08:03	mircea_popescu	"you forgot your panties in my bed" "but i don't wear panties ?" "oh shit... um..."
08:04	mircea_popescu	danielpbarron so how was it ?
08:04	danielpbarron	the most strange experience of my life
08:04	nubbins`	^
08:05	nubbins`	<+nubbins`> i didn't grok "weird" until i tried salvia
08:05	danielpbarron	and i've done dmt lsd and shrooms
08:05	mircea_popescu	fine, what do i know.
08:05	danielpbarron	felt like i became the hardwood floor i was lying on
08:05	nubbins`	less than you think you do 8)
08:05	punkman	someone sent mp some salvia :P
08:06	nubbins`	<+nubbins`> or you're a sheet of wallpaper in a strange room
08:06	punkman	*send
08:06	nubbins`	he's a grown-up, he can buy his own ;p
08:06	nubbins`	i guess it's probably still legal in .ar
08:06	nubbins`	the concentrates are better / easier
08:07	nubbins`	plain leaf requires the inhalation of plumes of smoke
08:07	nubbins`	v hard on the lungs
08:07	punkman	plain leaf is impossible
08:07	danielpbarron	i used 10x or something
08:07	nubbins`	5x and 10x, i tried
08:07	nubbins`	you need an impossibly small amount
08:07	nubbins`	like, people would lel.
08:07	nubbins`	"i need more than that"
08:07	nubbins`	5 minutes later, wiping tears off their face
08:08	punkman	I got a bunch of now respectable people, drooling like idiots on video
08:08	nubbins`	telling them it's okay
08:08	nubbins`	punkman the DROOL
08:09	nubbins`	smth else, hey?
08:09	nubbins`	*sluuurp* i've never had a buzz *sluuuurp* like this bef......
08:09	punkman	uncontrollable salivation
08:09	danielpbarron	salvia does kinda feel like an anti-opiate; it feels like the opposite of comfortable
08:09	punkman	so it wasn't just me
08:09	nubbins`	(vacant gaze for 20mins)
08:09	mircea_popescu	so this is the drug of dog ?
		↖
08:10	nubbins`	if it grew in another part of the world they woulda called it soma
08:10	nubbins`	punkman massiva salivation and internal organs being pulled to one side
08:10	nubbins`	*massive
08:10	nubbins`	is generally how the come-up was for me
08:11	nubbins`	then generally the room/space/forest/whatever would fill with a heavy static buzz, upward from the ground
08:11	nubbins`	then you lose yourself
08:12	nubbins`	man. this was like ten years ago.
08:12	punkman	first time wtih 5x, I remember having a 20min conversation with my keyboard
08:12	nubbins`	it's burned into my fucking brain.
08:12	punkman	yeah 10+ years ago
08:12	nubbins`	my first time with 5x i had a mental conversation in a language i didn't speak with an old woman
08:13	nubbins`	who happened to be standing in my bedroom. which was actually a farm.
08:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00033834 = 14.2441 BTC [-] {3}
08:14	nubbins`	"Based on my own experiments using an adjustable thermocouple-controlled heat gun, I found that the ideal airstream temperature for vaporizing salvinorin A from dried leaves is approximately 277° C"
08:14	nubbins`	well there ya go
08:15	nubbins`	my oven doesn't get that hot
08:16	mircea_popescu	how can your oven not get that hot ?!
08:17	*	nubbins` shrugs
08:17	punkman	nubbins`: did you ever try a tincture? I always wondered how that worked
08:17	nubbins`	500F is the max
08:17	nubbins`	that's what, 260C?
08:17	nubbins`	punkman never tried, nope
08:18	nubbins`	i suppose if i set it to broil it'd get however hot
08:18	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48172 @ 0.00033715 = 16.2412 BTC [-] {2}
08:18	punkman	well maybe I'll give it a shot after a decade
08:19	nubbins`	bring a sitter
08:19	punkman	*another decade, not keen on smoking salvia any time soon
08:20	nubbins`	it does not lend itself to addiction
08:21	punkman	indeed
08:21	nubbins`	i guess i should be binding books
08:21	nubbins`	we actually sold out on saturday and now there's like 25 on backorder
08:21	punkman	doing more bird stuff?
08:21	nubbins`	same stuff
08:22	nubbins`	http://patrickcanning.ca/ first menu link
08:22	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1z8bEZx )
08:22	nubbins`	er directly http://patrick-canning-ppkq.squarespace.com/birdsofnewfoundland/birds-of-newfoundland
08:22	assbot	Birds Of Newfoundland — PATRICK THOMAS CANNING ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8bL7n )
08:22	*	punkman sneaks off to order some mitragyna speciosa
08:23	nubbins`	ethnobotanicals.com 8)
08:24	adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-12-2014#939837 < mdma. dogs be rollin all day.
08:24	assbot	Logged on 01-12-2014 13:09:41; mircea_popescu: so this is the drug of dog ?
08:25	punkman	nubbins`: pretty expensive
08:25	nubbins`	no doubt
08:25	nubbins`	ordered from them ages ago
08:25	nubbins`	was surprised to see them still running
08:25	nubbins`	i think i bought some HBWR seeds from there
08:26	*	adlai is most curious these days to try https://www.erowid.org/plants/calea_zacatechichi/
08:26	assbot	Erowid Calea zacatechichi Vault ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8cJ3I )
08:26	nubbins`	is that the dream one?
08:26	nubbins`	also erowid accepts btc
08:28	adlai	yes and yes
08:28	punkman	these guys take BTC, can recommend: http://www.bikhuk.com/p/buy-kratom.html
08:28	assbot	Bikhuk Kratom Powder - Ethnobotanicals buy direct from the source!: Buy Kratom ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8d5HA )
08:28	adlai	well erowid doesn't accept btc in the same way as those guys :)
08:28	nubbins`	heh
08:28	nubbins`	nope
08:29	nubbins`	oh hey, the EU banned 25I-NBOMe in september
08:30	nubbins`	#bitcoin-alkaloids ;p
08:31	adlai	elaborating on the earlier theme of addiction being brilliant for plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis
08:31	assbot	Ophiocordyceps unilateralis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGvwDg )
08:32	adlai	this is a bit of an extreme example, and some people would claim that humans get something out of the relationship, ie, psychoactive plants are symbiotic, not parasites
08:32	nubbins`	fwiw i think psychoactives are more denfense mechanisms than anything
08:33	nubbins`	show me an animal (besides your dog) that eats weed plants
08:33	punkman	adlai, Michael Pollan et al?
08:33	adlai	my dog eats weed!?
08:33	nubbins`	adlai, only when you're not looking.
08:34	nubbins`	not too surprising from a creature that will greedily eat feces without compunction
08:34	adlai	he puked a turd a few days ago
08:34	nubbins`	right?>
08:34	nubbins`	that's pigeon-level stupidity
08:35	adlai	to his credit, of all the dogs I've met, he's got the best grasp of newtonian mechanics
08:35	adlai	there is no fooling him
08:35	nubbins`	bit of a wash with non-newtonian tho hey?
08:35	adlai	yeah he was so confused after interstellar
08:35	adlai	"urf?"
08:35	nubbins`	heh
08:35	nubbins`	well don't ever buy him any silly putty
08:36	mircea_popescu	nubbins` horse enjoys a good beer...
08:37	punkman	I've seen dog enjoying beer as well
08:37	adlai	punkman: haven't seen this before. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Botany_of_Desire ) it's not quite what I was describing, though
08:37	assbot	The Botany of Desire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8flOR )
08:37	adlai	or rather, he's only looking at one *psychoactive* plant, and he's looking at it from the plant's perspective
08:38	nubbins`	oh sure
08:38	nubbins`	look at orchids
08:38	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00034118 = 1.723 BTC [+]
08:38	adlai	i'm also suspicious of any researcher who's named after his subjects' gametes
08:39	nubbins`	there are species that still imitate the appearance of their once-favoured pollinators, now long extinct
08:39	nubbins`	https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/a-flower-hints-at-the-appearance-of-an-extinct-bee/
08:39	assbot	A flower hints at the appearance of an extinct bee « Why Evolution Is True ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGy308 )
08:39	adlai	mircea_popescu: graphs on mpex have been wonky today
08:40	mircea_popescu	wonky how ?
08:42	adlai	they don't all display on the main page, sometimes all do, sometimes one or two missing. sometimes they're missing from the asset page too.
08:42	mircea_popescu	a. yeah.
08:42	adlai	right now S.WOL is missing
08:42	adlai	it has already been established that you sabotage your own uptime to test our attentiveness...
08:43	mircea_popescu	transient situation.
08:43	adlai	nubbins`: this is my favorite evolution story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_flagella
08:43	assbot	Evolution of flagella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGzcEV )
08:43	mircea_popescu	(also, swol is not missing, just, nothing there)
08:43	adlai	well, earlier mpoe was missing
08:44	adlai	first time I didn't mention it, second time I mentioned it but it was back by the time you asked "wonky how"
08:44	mircea_popescu	ya.
08:55	adlai	why would you have a "featured in" section with images of newspapers, but no links to the actual article!?
08:55	*	adlai refuses to link the site because they don't deserve the publicity of getting laughed at
08:55	adlai	suffice it to say that it's one of the zillion worthless "bitcoin startups"
08:58	mircea_popescu	because they saw it on some other site
08:58	mircea_popescu	or more likely, because the theme they ripped came with the icons.
08:59	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/mpex-smpoe-november-2014-statement/
08:59	assbot	MPEx (S.MPOE) November 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGDzQp )
09:01	adlai	"Tech, 24.87832294 BTC" awfully specific...
09:02	mircea_popescu	kinda no practical way to make these not relate to one another
09:02	adlai	punkman: seen https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=411974.0 ?
09:02	assbot	Promechard: Proprietary Metablock Chains for Arbitrary Data ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGEgJn )
09:02	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/mpex-smpoe-july-2014-statement/#footnote_2_55827
09:02	assbot	MPEx (S.MPOE) July 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGEksD )
09:02	mircea_popescu	adlai ^
09:03	adlai	oic
09:05	adlai	!s definitive advertising network
09:05	assbot	0 results for 'definitive advertising network' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=definitive+advertising+network
09:10	adlai	lol http://i.imgur.com/kBuk5gu.png
09:10	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1pGG84S )
09:10	adlai	mircea_popescu: why does it want an extra 35.56b
09:16	mircea_popescu	adlai huh ?
09:16	mircea_popescu	anyway, that was the van network, it was actuve for like a month.
09:16	adlai	"Please send exactly 0.01003556 BTC to 1btcaddressblabla"
09:17	mircea_popescu	to identify you.
09:19	*	adlai mutters something about the benefits of address reuse
09:19	mircea_popescu	namely ?
09:20	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53117 @ 0.00034107 = 18.1166 BTC [-] {2}
09:20	adlai	one address per customer makes it easier to tell which payment comes from which customer
09:20	mircea_popescu	right.
09:23	mircea_popescu	;;nethash
09:23	gribble	309546849.256
09:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.10745861 = 5.3729 BTC [+] {9}
09:24	mircea_popescu	it also happens to be the wrong thing. it makes it easier for ~everyone~, which is bad for user privacy. it requires more complexity, which costs money and opens the door to errors
09:25	mircea_popescu	as kraken found out the hard way.
09:25	adlai	and this can't happen with a shitty implementation (or user error) of discrimination based on dust-level change?
09:25	mircea_popescu	meanwhile using a single address has no cost associated, other than you know, one particular string of eight digits as opposed to another particular string of eight digits.
09:26	mircea_popescu	adlai anything can happen, but if you don't need a database you have less exposure to the things that can happen.
09:26	adlai	you don't need a database to associate pending payments to their dust amount?
09:27	mircea_popescu	nope.
09:27	adlai	what if shit happens between invoicing and payment?
09:27	mircea_popescu	like ?
09:28	adlai	server restarts for whatever reason, first thing it sees on startup is a payment with some amount of dust. how does it know which customer was issued that specific dust request, before the reboot?
09:29	mircea_popescu	you're aware that when you make an order you get sent an email. right ?
09:30	*	adlai doesn't have dementia, yet
09:31	mircea_popescu	so it looks if it sent a mail for that amount. if it does and the recipient correctly hashes to it, it sends it an email with teh code.
09:31	mircea_popescu	not like it matters if it's rebooted or anything.
09:31	adlai	"recipient correctly hashes to it" missing piece of the puzzle
09:31	mircea_popescu	:p
09:31	mircea_popescu	but i enjoyed tormenting you with it fwiw
09:32	mircea_popescu	srsly nao, isn't it obvious by now, whenever immutability is achieved without a db, a hash was involved ?
09:32	*	adlai suspected something of the sort, but hasn't yet received his jump-to-conclusions mat
09:32	mircea_popescu	aok
09:33	adlai	and when you're high enough, what's hashing if not a lookup in the database of MATHEMATICS ITSELF
09:33	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44225 @ 0.00035046 = 15.4991 BTC [+]
09:33	mircea_popescu	:)
09:34	mircea_popescu	anyway, as a general point : breaking the address <-> user relation is the most important thing to do for bitcoin's success on an individual level.
09:34	mircea_popescu	worst fucking idea, not reusing addresses.
09:34	mircea_popescu	the more ambiguous they are, the better.
09:35	adlai	too many negatives there... you're saying that reusing addresses makes them more ambiguous?
09:36	nubbins`	it makes the use thereof more ambiguous
09:36	mircea_popescu	they're separate clauses.
09:36	mircea_popescu	not reusing addresses is a bad idea ; reusing them makes them more ambiguous, which is good.
09:37	adlai	how? reuse ties two transactions together as having been signed by the same entity. this is OK for eg a business wanting to operate transparently, but less so for an individual wanting privacy
		↖
09:37	mircea_popescu	explain, because the logic doesn't follow.
09:39	adlai	Alice wants to pay Bob a bitcoin. She has one address with 2btc, so she creates a transaction sending bob one bitcoin, and one bitcoin change back to her own address. it's trivial to tell which bitcoin is alice's, and which is bob's.
09:39	adlai	scenario 2 - alice creates a transaction paying 1btc to one address, and 1btc to another. it's not trivial to tell (just from the transactions) which address belongs to whom.
09:40	adlai	lots more work for Eve
09:40	mircea_popescu	so you like to think.
09:40	nubbins`	i think you are both using different concepts of "reuse"
09:40	mircea_popescu	moreover, look at it in its proper light.
09:40	adlai	nubbins`: possibly, i'm against concept reuse :P
09:40	mircea_popescu	"adlai, you are charged before this court with high crimes of having derped on the internet in a forbidden manner"
09:40	mircea_popescu	"what proof do you have ?"
09:40	nubbins`	secnario 3: adlai and nubs each send a tx to 1mpexblahblah. they send their change wherever they like.
09:40	mircea_popescu	"you've paid to address X!"
09:40	mircea_popescu	"mnope"
09:40	mircea_popescu	"well but somebody did!"
09:41	mircea_popescu	"sure. lots of people. what's your point ?"
09:42	mircea_popescu	the key to escaping responsibility if being one of a group that did whatever. the way to implement this in bitcoin is through address reuse.
09:42	nubbins`	"but if all the movies go into the bin behind the movie return slot, how will they know who is returning their movies?"
09:42	adlai	"this address, which has previously been associated with you, made on of those transactions"
09:42	mircea_popescu	"associated" how ?
09:42	mircea_popescu	once this one use per address thing goes away, "associated" is a lolzword.
09:42	adlai	"you paid for your 1000btc porsche from it"
09:42	mircea_popescu	"wasn't me"
09:42	adlai	"kept the change, then paid address X later on"
09:43	adlai	ok, let's take the porsche then cuz it's evidently not yours!
09:43	mircea_popescu	"wasn't me"
09:43	nubbins`	adlai this is an argument against payout address reuse by individuals
09:43	nubbins`	mpex situation is accounts receivable address reuse
09:43	mircea_popescu	yeah nubbins has it. there's a difference here.
09:43	adlai	right
09:43	nubbins`	which afaict has no problems
09:43	mircea_popescu	bitbet does the same thing, it reuses addresses liberally.
09:43	adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-12-2014#940002
09:43	assbot	Logged on 01-12-2014 14:37:30; adlai: how? reuse ties two transactions together as having been signed by the same entity. this is OK for eg a business wanting to operate transparently, but less so for an individual wanting privacy
09:44	mircea_popescu	nothing to do with transparency really.
09:44	mircea_popescu	everything to do with the very privacy of the users.
09:45	nubbins`	adlai i mean obviously buying $100k of btc from a government-approved exchange, immediately purchasing a porsche with it, keeping change in same address, buying H from silk road, keeping change in same address, buying mpex shares, etc etc
09:45	adlai	well it also gives transparency, as long as the people looking in trust that the business uses only those addresses
09:45	nubbins`	is a bad idea
09:45	nubbins`	but does this really need to be stated? :S
09:46	mircea_popescu	adlai sure but that's difficult to verify
09:46	*	nubbins` puts on a t-shirt with his home address and times when he will be away from his house, then goes to buy drugs w/ gold coins
09:46	adlai	don't forget to label your keys too
09:46	nubbins`	natch
09:47	nubbins`	address reuse also thwarts phishing attempts
09:47	mircea_popescu	certainly.
09:47	mircea_popescu	and in so doing provides the perfect pill against the hearn idiocy of "let's import heardbleed into btc
09:47	nubbins`	the forum is riddled with stories of scammers preying on group buys by PMing people saying "hey its me, adlai`, plz to send btc to 1Scamblahblah"
09:47	mircea_popescu	it'll work fine if we call it PKI instead"
09:48	adlai	nubbins`: aka the idiot tax
09:48	adlai	as slimy as phish may be, it's a key part of our survival as a species
09:48	nubbins`	ehhhhhhhh
09:48	*	adlai actually heard the words "they said it in the factory tour, so it's probably true" a few days ago
09:48	nubbins`	key part of our survival as economic creatures
09:49	mircea_popescu	it's a key part of the survival OF WOMEN
09:49	adlai	?
09:49	mircea_popescu	!
09:49	nubbins`	!s WOMEN from:mircea_popescu
09:49	assbot	700 results for 'WOMEN from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=WOMEN+from%3Amircea_popescu
09:50	mircea_popescu	!s drugs from:nubbins`
09:50	assbot	59 results for 'drugs from:nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=drugs+from%3Anubbins%60
09:50	mircea_popescu	psss
09:50	nubbins`	kek
09:50	nubbins`	dat case, dat point
09:50	mircea_popescu	http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/
09:50	assbot	#bitcoin-assets stats ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbe7Dj )
09:51	mircea_popescu	;;calc 59/ 20746 / 700 / 111250
09:51	gribble	0
09:51	mircea_popescu	SEE!
09:51	*	adlai won't look at those until they're on bloomberg (due to customer demand)
09:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00035116 = 24.5461 BTC [+] {2}
09:52	mircea_popescu	!s men from:mircea_popescu
09:52	assbot	288 results for 'men from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=men+from%3Amircea_popescu
09:52	mircea_popescu	well at least i'm not gay.
09:52	mircea_popescu	!s anal from:mircea_popescu
09:52	assbot	52 results for 'anal from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=anal+from%3Amircea_popescu
09:52	mircea_popescu	!s sex from:mircea_popescu
09:52	assbot	253 results for 'sex from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sex+from%3Amircea_popescu
09:52	mircea_popescu	hey, that's actually kinda accurate.
09:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94500 @ 0.00035156 = 33.2224 BTC [+] {2}
09:54	jurov	!s oral from:mircea_popescu
09:54	assbot	14 results for 'oral from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=oral+from%3Amircea_popescu
09:54	adlai	it'd be kinda cool to work for nsa or whoever have !s over everything everybody has ever said
09:54	jurov	!s oral to:mircea_popescu << nanotube this should be implemented
09:54	assbot	0 results for 'oral to:mircea_popescu << nanotube this should be implemented' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=oral+to%3Amircea_popescu+%3C%3C+nanotube+this+should+be+implemented
09:54	mircea_popescu	nubbins` can you appreciate how damned rare it is, a few occurences over tens of thousands of LINES ?
09:55	adlai	probably the lizard schutzstaffel
09:55	mircea_popescu	!up kakobrekla
09:55	mircea_popescu	as in UP YOURS
09:56	punkman	adlai, anything interesting about that besided being lisp?
09:56	adlai	punkman: it seems to overlap, to some degree, the goals of the deeds project
09:56	nubbins`	mircea_popescu: !s sex http://pastebin.com/FGt21TCn
09:56	assbot	mf doom - kookies - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8yikJ )
09:57	punkman	adlai: how does it not destroy coins?
09:57	nubbins`	or i guess !s jacking off, more accurately
09:58	mircea_popescu	emails/females ? that's some hardcore rhyming.
09:58	mircea_popescu	ima off sending some shemales some emales nao.
09:58	adlai	punkman: "Assuming each of these transactions includes a miner fee of 0.1 mbits (millibits), this would cost the proprietor 36.5 mbits a year."
09:58	adlai	(from the paper)
09:58	nubbins`	heh
09:59	nubbins`	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAYdO30Tcu4
09:59	assbot	MF DOOM - Kookies - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbg3vO )
09:59	mircea_popescu	adlai what i don't get is : some group is trying to do something punkman already did, and we're using.
09:59	nubbins`	if you want it spit instead of typed
09:59	mircea_popescu	why are you telling him about them ? tell them about him.
09:59	punkman	also, do you see any benefit in including previous metablock hash in next metablock?
09:59	adlai	how do you know I haven't told them about him?
09:59	mircea_popescu	i don't see them here.
09:59	adlai	lol
10:00	mircea_popescu	going "oh punkman, you're our idol, bless us"
10:00	adlai	availability. punkman is right here, pasting links cost nothing...
10:00	mircea_popescu	so either they're dumb or you've not told 'em and they're dumb.
10:00	mircea_popescu	yeah, but abusing availability is how availability goes away eh ?
10:00	adlai	true
10:03	punkman	while we're on the topic, I want to make a service that fetches a URL, hashes contents, and then bundles and notarizes those. thoughts?
		↖
10:04	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00035112 = 3.4761 BTC [-]
10:04	nubbins`	jurov wrong bot dad
10:04	mircea_popescu	punkman as html ?
10:05	jurov	nubbins` my bad
10:05	nubbins`	np
10:05	mircea_popescu	it'd be a great thing, page verification, but so many things can fuck it up. like, any page that includes the current time. a theme upgrade.
10:05	punkman	mircea_popescu: yeah but also other options. screenshots or WARC can also be done.
10:05	nubbins`	anyway good idea
10:06	punkman	mircea_popescu: why's that a problem?
10:06	nubbins`	dat regex
10:06	adlai	the page will never verify
10:06	nubbins`	never ever
10:06	mircea_popescu	yeah, it'll be rare that it verifies so impossible to put to practical use.
10:06	adlai	if the data you hash includes a timestamp
10:06	nubbins`	which rendering engine will you use?
10:06	punkman	the service would notarize the fact that on X date, the contents were something that hashes to Y hash
10:07	mircea_popescu	yeah but...
10:07	nubbins`	how about pages that generate different html based on browser capabilities?
10:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50637 @ 0.00035194 = 17.8212 BTC [+] {2}
10:07	mircea_popescu	^
10:07	adlai	this could work better in tandem with something(s) that archives the page itself
10:07	mircea_popescu	there are incredibly many problems with this. kinda why html is so hated
10:07	punkman	I've considered fetching from multiple geographical locations
10:07	punkman	at extra cost
10:07	nubbins`	i mean
10:07	mircea_popescu	there's a reason the wayback machine is run as charity.
10:07	nubbins`	you're going to hash a session id?
10:08	mircea_popescu	but here's an idea : have THEM maybe use your thing ?
10:08	adlai	what about contents?
10:08	mircea_popescu	shoot them an email, hash all their pages ?
10:08	nubbins`	you and i pull down a website right now using the same browser on the same hardware, we're getting different content
10:08	nubbins`	it's unverifiable, full stop
10:08	adlai	let the user (who requests hashing site content) specify somehow the part of the site they want hashed
10:08	nubbins`	let the user copy and paste it
10:08	adlai	then your hash confirms that this site contained a certain text
10:08	mircea_popescu	yeah but then how do you prove it's off the site.
10:09	nubbins`	bullshit it does.
10:09	mircea_popescu	pretty much the only way to do this is with sworn testimony.
10:09	mircea_popescu	you basically have to ask someone to go there confirm your screenshot is correct.
10:09	punkman	nubbins`: preview before bundling, so you make sure it didn't need JS enabled when you only asked for HTML
10:09	nubbins`	let the user open element inspector, change the headline on aljazeera.com to say "adlai sniffs farts", hash that and send it off
10:09	nubbins`	it proves they ran the article
10:10	nubbins`	right?
10:10	adlai	that wouldn't work unless I could change the document that punkman's bot fetched
10:10	mircea_popescu	adlai what if i select every 6th letter and it spells out "i did your mom"
10:10	nubbins`	adlai think it thru
10:10	nubbins`	punkman's bot fetched a document, right?
10:10	punkman	the idea is basically this https://archive.today/ but with signing
10:10	assbot	archive.today - webpage capture ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8BGfj )
10:10	nubbins`	what document did it fetch?
10:11	adlai	nubbins`: think what through? you can change whatever you want in your own browser, but you can't change the communication between bot and server without compromising somethnig
10:11	nubbins`	fuck the bot
10:11	mircea_popescu	actually... sure you can, but let's not get into the entire mitm http story.
10:11	adlai	don't kick the baby
10:11	nubbins`	i can do a deed by hand
10:11	adlai	mitm http = compromising something
10:11	nubbins`	i can also hash a html document by hand and send dust to it
10:12	nubbins`	"hey man the bot didn't pick up my file"
10:12	mircea_popescu	no, because something you can't verify isn't something, it's chtulhu.
10:12	adlai	no, that's "I created some file, and the bot isn't agreeing with it"
10:12	adlai	nubbins`: the bot's signature on a file isn't proof-of-existence, it's proof-of-that-server-said-this-to-me-at-that-time
10:12	mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes: (i think) << pretty sure you're right.
10:13	adlai	back in basic training this one drill sergeant said some words that have echoed with me to this day... "If you ever start thinking something, just stop."
10:13	nubbins`	no, it's proof that the bot hashed a string of text and sent dust to the address
10:14	adlai	the whole point is that you trust that the bot only does that for text that it fetches from URLs
10:14	nubbins`	or are we taking the bot on blind faith now?
10:14	mircea_popescu	btw, it occurs to me, the one thing qntra would really need would be a resident business/finance analyst.
10:14	punkman	related https://perma.cc/
10:14	assbot	perma.cc ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8CLDN )
10:14	mircea_popescu	mike_c how you doin' on time these days ?
10:14	adlai	punkman: either nubbins` or I are kinda missing the point, can you explain it again pls?
10:14	nubbins`	so we trust that the bot fetches text from a website and doesn't alter it and hashes it and sends dust to the address
10:14	punkman	adlai, what you said
10:14	nubbins`	but there's no way to verify it because we'll never get the same hash
10:15	mircea_popescu	well, rarely.
10:15	nubbins`	so we actually have to visit the site at the time the bot archives it
10:15	mike_c	limited, but I could handle something.
10:15	mircea_popescu	i think trilema perhaps hashes to the same thing.
10:15	nubbins`	to verify with our own eyes that that's what the site said
10:15	adlai	which is why you give the bot a URL and an xpath (or regex, or whatever you like for specifying a part of the document)
10:15	nubbins`	and then make a note of it for future reference
10:15	nubbins`	this is retarded
10:15	adlai	so the bot doesn't say, "the entire document fetched from <url> hashed to <hash>"
10:16	adlai	it says, "the document fetched from <url> contained a section, located at <path>, hashing to <hash>"
10:16	mike_c	you looking for somebody to analyze btc businesses? that's a tough task with the limited information they usually provide.
10:16	punkman	you also get the contents the bot fetched so you can download for safekeeping
10:16	mircea_popescu	mike_c lemme value proposition you : if you're going to work now and again, it may work much better to be a qntra star analyst and get shares for that work, than sorta be stuck with a solo blog.
10:16	adlai	that's working in tandem with an archive, with crowdsourced archives :)
10:17	nubbins`	so the bot says "the phrase 'i hate newfies' fetched from the url http://iwouldneversaythatihatenewfies.com hashed to <hash>"
10:17	nubbins`	useful
10:17	mike_c	yes, but qntra posts don't have graphs
10:17	mike_c	maybe i could fix that.
10:17	mircea_popescu	mostly because you're not there yet.
10:18	mircea_popescu	tandacoin: i have read logs of bitcoin assets but i'm not sure how to get word of trust << o.O the cuteliest!
10:18	mircea_popescu	;;seen tandacoin
10:18	gribble	tandacoin was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 15 hours, 20 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <tandacoin> you guys have no idea how to do business or journalism, im not going to waste my time with u
10:18	mike_c	this is perhaps a good idea. i gotta run for a bit. but I think you're right.
10:18	adlai	nubbins`: "you can't not communicate". that would say that either the owner of that domain is a liar, and said at that time that he hates newfies, or that bot has become unreliable.
10:18	mircea_popescu	awww.
10:18	mircea_popescu	that final u is priceless.
10:18	mircea_popescu	YOU GUYSE!
10:18	mircea_popescu	have no idea.
10:19	adlai	how is journo formed??? how page get views?
10:19	nubbins`	i pronounce u as "oo" in my head
10:20	*	adlai imagines that the author is french and forgot the t
10:20	nubbins`	and the o and the i
10:20	nubbins`	bbl lunch
10:21	mircea_popescu	you mean lnch
10:21	adlai	yo mean yo
10:22	adlai	http://www.justyo.co/
10:22	assbot	Yo - It's that simple. ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbntPE )
10:22	mircea_popescu	Yoco sounds like a future artist / sextape protagonist
10:23	mircea_popescu	cazalla: tandacoin, stick around, i need to finish current article and then head off to a pokemon meetup << bwahahaha
10:23	mircea_popescu	im saving this one in a special compartment, it's too good.
10:24	punkman	can't tell if trolling
10:24	mircea_popescu	no but imagine, perez hilton comes here to get my take on shoes
10:24	mircea_popescu	i'm all like "nigga wait, i gotta pokemon brb"
10:26	mircea_popescu	"tandacoin:we get 4k pageviews a day how muh do you get?" ahahah this was so great.
10:26	adlai	that awkward moment when you say bye, then realize that your friend is also going to pokemon
10:29	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00035268 = 23.1711 BTC [+] {2}
10:29	mircea_popescu	fwiw : qntra.net us alexa rank 165,888 ; altcoinpress.com us alexa rank 227,200. (larger is worse).
10:30	kakobrekla	isnt alexa rank like rand()*2/2
10:31	mircea_popescu	well yeah, about on par with random derp calling ourpages();
10:32	mircea_popescu	"And indeed, the output of the CPRNG is very biased. The output of each step of the CPRNG is a number from 0 to 25; you would expect successive outputs to be the same around one time in 26, but my experiments show that the frequency is closer to 1/22.5." <<< shcneier made a cypher. heh.
10:32	adlai	how is alexa formed? how does blog get viewy?
10:33	mircea_popescu	iirc they had a toolbar.
10:33	mircea_popescu	basically it's "how many idiots end up on your site"
10:33	kakobrekla	so qntra is actually doing worse idiotwise than that other thing
10:34	adlai	what ever happened to backroom deals with ISPs
10:34	adlai	they need to learn from nielsen
10:35	mircea_popescu	adlai they cost money ? i dunno.
10:35	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla well, worse is better.
10:35	adlai	they don't have to cost money if you can dress it up as a service you sell the ISP
10:35	adlai	for example: you've got the data, we've got the scientists
10:36	mircea_popescu	lmao
10:36	mircea_popescu	what do you think this is, 1995 ?
10:36	mircea_popescu	"honey, you've got the tits, I got the canes"
10:37	mircea_popescu	mats_cd03: i feel this encourages an echo chamber as it continues << this is prolly true. on the other hand, most of the intelligent people that were ever going to hear about bitcoin have by now.
10:37	mircea_popescu	what's left are the idiots.
10:38	*	adlai has met a few intelligent people who have heard about bitcoin but are taking their time learning about it
10:38	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla: the general discussion here also changed a lot over last years << i'd loive to hear your take on that ?
10:39	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform o wow, you back ? EMAIL ME!
10:39	adlai	it seems that the general cycle is that these people hear about bitcoin, learn a tiny bit about it, and park it in the back of their mind for a few years
10:40	mircea_popescu	seems reasonable.
10:40	mircea_popescu	i certainly do the same with most things.
10:40	mircea_popescu	"Name Most Important. But it was quite unexpected that the name of the coin does play the most important role over the long term, since it’s the only one thing from the five features, mentioned above, that cannot be changed, or significantly improved."
10:40	mircea_popescu	lol.
10:41	adlai	I guess tacking an X on the end is an insignificant improvement?
10:41	mircea_popescu	"So let’s try to build a rating of the cryptocurrency names of real coins, based on various criteria: Brightness. Seriousness of name (as a currency, the name shouldn’t be fun). Whether the name is conceptual (makes sense, dedicated to ideas), or not."
10:41	adlai	hobonickles!
10:41	mircea_popescu	so bizarre this. deconstructing it, pretty much the only takeaway is whoa, check out the puritans!
10:42	mircea_popescu	some esl kid on the fringe of culture nevertheless believes that "as a Category", X "shouldn't be fun".
10:42	mircea_popescu	apodictically, just like that.
10:43	mircea_popescu	"Does it have money or financial mental associations, or even slight links, for example, Luckycoin is for luck, that is necessary to become rich, Mooncoin means Moon, and the Moon drives ocean waters and financial flows (as assumed in financial astrology) plus ‘to the moon’ means also price growing process And MEOW, or BBQ coins have no these associations at all)."
10:43	adlai	apodiction breeds apodidaction
10:43	mircea_popescu	"Dick Valis. Dick is an altcoin enthusiast and student of philosophy. He enjoys writing about cryptocurrencies and spending his time exploring reality and searching for truth."
10:44	mircea_popescu	http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/e2c17ca8e5cb72b7c1f3d2d57561ad10?s=85&d=monsterid&r=G << no way that's actually the author ?
10:44	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Lk1D )
10:44	mircea_popescu	why does he sound like a 16yo vietnamese girl ?
10:44	adlai	that's philip k dick
10:44	mircea_popescu	a so it is.
10:45	mircea_popescu	adlai what's apodidaction ?
10:45	adlai	apo+dictic = away from speech, unquestionable
10:45	adlai	autodidact = self-taught
10:45	adlai	cross the two and you get an unteachable idiot
10:46	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: the undoing of C.. due to its memory unsafety they must decide to either bloat the kernel or suffer the overhead << entirely spurious argument advanced << no but address the actual point rather than the idiots putting it forth.
10:46	mircea_popescu	yes but -ion requires a process
10:46	jurov	;;isup deeds.bitcoin-assets.com
10:46	gribble	deeds.bitcoin-assets.com is down
10:47	mircea_popescu	punkman ^
10:47	mircea_popescu	adlai speaking of which, i wonder how many people who use "i have no words" in their apology realise the irony.
10:48	adlai	apodidaction = away/apart from the process of teaching
10:48	mircea_popescu	moar like "taking away from teaching". apodidactic, "which is away"
10:49	*	adlai is not enough of a classics scholar to debate this much further
10:49	adlai	let's just settle on quidquid latine dictum sitis, altus sonator
10:49	adlai	sonatUR
10:50	mircea_popescu	well... there's good reason for that.
10:50	mircea_popescu	they didn't use to teach monkeys and donkeys letters back then, for one.
10:52	kakobrekla	i'd loive to hear your take on that ? < well my take is that i used to be one of the smart people on the chan and now im one of the stupid
10:52	adlai	cazalla: you missed a spot, over in http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/
10:52	assbot	Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8NyOv )
10:52	mircea_popescu	ahahaha poor kako. tide went out from under his butt
10:52	adlai	so THAT'S why you brought me in here!
10:53	mircea_popescu	you;'re smart, the problem with you is that you don't know much.
10:54	assbot	Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0H33QSD.txt )
10:54	adlai	!b 1
10:54	adlai	iirc it was Dennett who said that ignorance should not be seen as an insult
10:55	mircea_popescu	well... someone fishing for insults in b-a would get well fed in short order. but no, it's not an insult.
10:56	mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: no you don't understand unless it's a perfect solution it's entirely worthless << lawl.
10:56	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform keeping the old MIT spirit alive. "what's the most important thing to remember about this great achievement ?"
10:56	mircea_popescu	"that it sucks."
10:56	adlai	my problem with me is that I don't know what I want to learn next
10:56	adlai	so I flutter about, dabbling in this and that, and never really going anywhere
10:57	mircea_popescu	that's a problem.
10:57	kakobrekla	so now im ignorant?
10:57	kakobrekla	idk i wouldnt know!
10:57	mircea_popescu	the only way a good intellect can be used is through achieving excellent depth in one field, that can then be leveraged in all fields. otherwise, if you never anchor, it'll just mush around
10:57	kakobrekla	cause im ignorant prolly.
10:57	adlai	at least you've got strength going for ya
10:58	mircea_popescu	no he doesn't.
10:59	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64648 @ 0.00035361 = 22.8602 BTC [+] {3}
10:59	*	kakobrekla has nothing.
10:59	kakobrekla	but a barrel (ready).
10:59	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> if you are pwned while using 'brainwallets', simply shows that your brain is defective < no need to test this hypothesis the result is known << all brains are defective, is the thing.
10:59	mircea_popescu	;;google et la tete sur le robinet
10:59	gribble	Tête de robinet... - Plomberie - PiecesPlomberie.com: <http://www.piecesplomberie.com/plomberie/tete-de-robinet.html>; Robinets thermostatiques, tête thermostatique - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n__r-fIBQow>; Tête de robinet : Apiman, tête de robinets courtes et longues, avec et ...: <http://www.apiman.fr/126-tete-de-robinet>
10:59	mircea_popescu	pfff
10:59	mircea_popescu	;;google chevalliers de la table ronde
10:59	gribble	Chevaliers de la table ronde: <http://www.southwestern.edu/~prevots/songs/?p=30>; 113. Chevaliers de la Table Ronde (Traditional French) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPanlQD4hpA>; Comptine Chevaliers de la Table Ronde 35553 - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CDM6C0zZuw>
11:00	kakobrekla	not homus cyptoheadus or whatever
11:00	kakobrekla	crypto*
11:01	adlai	mircea_popescu: "excellent depth in one field" << what's yours?
11:01	mircea_popescu	"Les deux pieds contre la mureille et la tete sous le robinet." << :D
11:01	mircea_popescu	adlai physics, originally.
11:01	adlai	that's like "i work with computers"
11:02	adlai	excellent depth in physics can mean so many totally different things
11:02	mircea_popescu	yeah but it doesn't actually matter which specifically it means.
11:03	mircea_popescu	solid state magnetism, fwiw.
11:04	adlai	hm
11:05	*	adlai doesn't see "work with computers" as a good candidate for excellent depth
11:06	mircea_popescu	no, but any of the toipics that often come up here could make it up.
11:06	adlai	seems more of a tool for digging into other fields, whether a "hard" science, or just making impossible things hard in other endeavors
11:06	mircea_popescu	nah, it's an art in its own, not merely a craft.
11:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83550 @ 0.0003445 = 28.783 BTC [-] {7}
11:08	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: browser plugin !?!?! << o.O
11:09	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: the beautifully dark cream-your-pants future of 'shall be delivered' is not attainable until folks learn to remember serious keys (yes, remember. with head.) << this is like saying the frankish empire has to wait for people who can make swords. by hand!
11:10	mircea_popescu	no it doesn't. charlemagne wasn't a blacksmith, and a thousand years later the orleans that WAS a blacksmith made a shitty king
11:12	adlai	well, any advice on how to pick a field is welcome. picture a highschool dropout with centipede's dilemma about where to start fixing his ignorance
11:13	jurov	asciilifeform's argument fits better when it's about wielding the sword, not forging it
11:13	mircea_popescu	adlai what do you like anwyay ?
11:14	adlai	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1tFQMjc-IE
11:14	assbot	Genesis - I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8TJ4Z )
11:15	mircea_popescu	jurov true.
11:15	adlai	this is an answer on several levels... music plays a rather large role in my life, although the ratio of consumption/production has been too high lately;
11:15	mircea_popescu	you like... music ?
11:15	adlai	and the second level - this is a song about a lawnmower who gets pushed to do fancier things, but he just likes pushing a lawnmower around
11:16	mircea_popescu	has nothing to do with fancy. contrary to what the uncultured imagine, there's nothing fancy about the products of the spirit.
11:16	mircea_popescu	no fancier than dung, at any rate, and the results of the same biology.
11:16	*	adlai has been thinking a lot lately about generative music
11:17	adlai	most music (increasingly so for more popular music) is incredibly formulaic
11:17	mircea_popescu	you gotta learn shit before you get creative.
11:17	nubbins`	;;gettrust devthedev
11:17	gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user nubbins` to user devthedev: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=nubbins%60&dest=devthedev | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=devthedev | Rated since: Tue Jul 15 12:31:42 2014
11:18	mircea_popescu	adlai go read say 1700s treatises on music for a while. either french, italian or german, whatever you speak.
11:19	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: the 'do-ocracy' does what it does best: does. << haha buncha progres.
11:20	adlai	all this talk is silly, though. the simple answer is to study math, and the real problem is lazyness, rack of dishiprin, etc
11:21	mircea_popescu	nah, math is not actually a thing.
11:21	*	adlai likes math, at least staring at its ass as it walks by... http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Kris/same.png
11:21	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1z8V4Zz )
11:21	adlai	math is totally a thing!
11:21	adlai	math is more of a thing than most other things
11:21	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, other users of 'opera' - which one do you use? the 1990s close-source turd? or the 'new, impr0v3d' idiocy that uses 'webkit' (chrome) rendering engine ? <<< they only moved to webkit last year, version 15 or something. afaik the last usable versions are 10 something.
11:22	pete_dushenski	;;later tell cazalla the blockquote text is borkt on http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/
11:22	assbot	Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8NyOv )
11:22	gribble	The operation succeeded.
11:22	mircea_popescu	very much like bitcoin stuff, there's a 7-10 space where the thing's useful.
11:22	jurov	$proxies
11:22	empyex	jurov: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.biz mpex.co mpex.bz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
11:22	empyex	jurov: MPEx-Status: mpex.bz (97 milliseconds), mpex.biz (98 milliseconds), mpex.ws (116 milliseconds), mpex.co (217 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (451 milliseconds)
11:22	empyex	jurov: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
11:24	*	adlai slinks off to splash about in the depthless swamp of website construction
11:24	jurov	apparently mpex.ws can't be resolved
11:24	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16097 @ 0.00035396 = 5.6977 BTC [+]
11:25	jurov	at least from somewhere
11:26	nubbins`	!s paper
11:26	assbot	1193 results for 'paper' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=paper
11:26	mircea_popescu	http://who.is/whois/mpex.ws ?
11:26	assbot	Mpex.ws Whois Lookup - Who.is - Who.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Wt2g )
11:26	mircea_popescu	didja get poisoned or something ?
11:26	kakobrekla	jurov did you ever update your trezor
11:27	jurov	kakobrekla: never
11:27	jurov	i never seriously used it yet
11:27	nubbins`	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-11-2014#938786
11:27	assbot	Logged on 30-11-2014 20:23:56; nubbins`: but FYI, i'm negotiating a price with a buyer now for my genesis block newspaper (the times jan 3 2009)
11:27	*	nubbins` rubs hands
11:28	jurov	mytrezor.com under linux got broken so i filed it under "fuck that"
11:28	kakobrekla	cool
11:28	mats_cd03	TSLA down 5 points today
11:29	mircea_popescu	wow look at that
11:29	jurov	dunno if there's bip32/trezor support in any noobish standalone client.. last i checked electrum was under development
11:29	mircea_popescu	over what ?
11:29	nubbins`	seen devthedev
11:29	nubbins`	er..
11:29	nubbins`	;;seen devthedev
11:29	gribble	devthedev was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <devthedev> https://twitter.com/DevinSenaUI/status/534733650349535233
11:30	mircea_popescu	Headlines Tesla Stock To Lift Off After Battery Rechargeat Forbes(Mon 1:05AM EST) Demand For Tesla Is Not The Problem, Switching The World To Electric Cars Isat Forbes(Sun, Nov 30) TeslaInvestor's Business Daily(Fri, Nov 28) NVIDIA wants to increase its presence in big data through TeslaMarket Realist(Fri, Nov 28) Tesla Is On The Right Track To Doubleat Forbes(Fri, Nov 28)
11:30	mircea_popescu	insufficient pumping!
11:30	kakobrekla	well oil got cheaper no?
11:30	pete_dushenski	all straws on deck!
11:31	pete_dushenski	blow men! blow!
11:31	mats_cd03	seems two days ago musk announced tesla "will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology."
11:31	mats_cd03	no idea if thats related tho
11:31	mircea_popescu	cazalla: there is talk of raising it due to budget shortfalls despite the government that brough it in promising the legislation would never allow for such a thing to occur << typical of ALL TAXES EVER
11:32	mircea_popescu	mats_cd03 somehow doubt it.
11:32	mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski: decimation show me a country with no income tax that's not in affrica <<< easy, that.
11:33	mircea_popescu	argentines are striking against the INTRODUCTION of income tax.
11:33	nubbins`	monaco
11:34	nubbins`	bahamas
11:34	nubbins`	kuwait probably
11:34	nubbins`	oman, qatar...
11:36	mircea_popescu	the arabs have an equivalent of the serenissima tax tho
11:36	mircea_popescu	technically its an income tax
11:36	nubbins`	fair enough
11:36	pete_dushenski	so argentina has never in its long history had an income tax eh?
11:37	nubbins`	wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, says 9-35%
11:37	pete_dushenski	and after seeing what it's done to the rest of the world, they kinda have to strike
11:37	mats_cd03	http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2014/11/russian-european-deadlock-2014113071046562676.html << bets on when Putin lets 'em freeze for a few weeks?
11:38	assbot	The Russian-European deadlock - Counting the Cost - Al Jazeera English ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Zobh )
11:39	mircea_popescu	nubbins` http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1614483-los-salarios-brutos-de-hasta-15000-no-pagaran-impuesto-a-las-ganancias
11:39	assbot	Los salarios brutos de hasta $15.000 no pagarán Impuesto a las Ganancias - lanacion.com   ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8ZQX5 )
11:39	mircea_popescu	i dunno, it's a convoluted topic.
11:41	mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski lulzy the confused reaction of a social media dude taken out of the eco chamber.
11:41	mircea_popescu	"excuse me ?" seems typical.
11:42	pete_dushenski	haha totally
11:42	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/ipad-kings-bounty-the-strategy-guide/
11:42	assbot	iPad King's Bounty, the strategy guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z90BPZ )
11:42	pete_dushenski	and i thought i was leading him along nicely
11:42	mircea_popescu	these fuckwits fucked up the game for fucks sake.
11:42	pete_dushenski	then he went all "wtf my head hurts"
11:43	pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu game broke?
11:43	mircea_popescu	the king's bounty thing
11:44	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.000354 = 15.4698 BTC [+] {2}
11:45	pete_dushenski	right. just a new update and all that goodness is out the window or what?
11:45	mircea_popescu	nah, i just figured out how to break it.
11:45	pete_dushenski	ha o i c
11:45	pete_dushenski	what'd it take?
11:46	mircea_popescu	rune of "why can't we all be equal"
11:46	adlai	!s TSLA from:adlai
11:47	assbot	1 results for 'TSLA from:adlai' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=TSLA+from%3Aadlai
11:47	adlai	:-o
11:55	ben_vulpes	re qntra advertising: advertising is downright wacky. the numbers say "don't do it" and yet people are constantly doing it.
11:57	adlai	fb's "Promoted Stories" are but a step towarsd the inevitable endgame: kickbacks for product placement in casual conversation
11:58	adlai	we've got quite a bit of escalation to go in this arms race
11:59	nubbins`	ehh i'm not so sure
11:59	nubbins`	was lacoste's inevitable endgame paying people to wear shirts with little alligators?
12:00	mircea_popescu	aren't they ?
12:00	adlai	they "pay" them by letting them associate with the brande
12:01	mircea_popescu	adlai anyway, it's bnot going to be run as an actual market, because cattle. so it will be run as a star market.
12:01	adlai	"it's"?
12:01	mircea_popescu	"tell your friends about budweiser's greatness in narrative form for a chance to win a can of beer"
12:03	adlai	I doubt people would be proud of such kickbacks, but shame doesn't stop people from peddling shit from carts in malls all over the world... this is just a few steps further, a few degrees further on the frog-boiling scale
12:03	*	adlai is referring to the national pastime, http://americangoy.blogspot.co.il/2008/10/pushy-israelis-in-every-american-mall.html
12:04	assbot	The World According to AmericanGoy: Pushy Israelis in Every American Mall ... ( http://bit.ly/1yaNK2y )
12:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16872 @ 0.0003471 = 5.8563 BTC [-]
12:23	pete_dushenski	;;ticker
12:23	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 380.02, Best ask: 380.87, Bid-ask spread: 0.85000, Last trade: 380.86, 24 hour volume: 5838.62655680, 24 hour low: 373.03, 24 hour high: 382.31, 24 hour vwap: 377.722924571
12:28	PinkPosixPXE	17:31 #bitcoin-assets: <+ben_vulpes> PinkPosixPXE's downright neat <<< Thanks! You are awesome as well, and thank you for the rating! :) I'm really glad my contribution helped out, happy to help any time :)
12:33	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: all brains are defective, is the thing << elaborate plz
12:37	pete_dushenski	maybe in the sense that brains aren't rational computers of ev ?
12:39	mod6	;;rated PinkPosixPXE
12:39	gribble	You rated user PinkPosixPXE on Wed Oct 22 13:06:41 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Helped me out testing ben_vulpes install script..
12:39	mod6	;;rate PinkPosixPXE 2 Wrote a script for The Bitcoin Foundation contained in this document: http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html
12:39	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1A87txO )
12:39	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user PinkPosixPXE has changed from 1 to 2.
12:39	asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: seems to me like he was of the 'brainwallet can be guessed' school of thought. i disagree. if yours can be guessed, you are either lazy or stupid
12:39	PinkPosixPXE	Thanks mod6! :D
12:40	mod6	No problem. Thank /you/ for putting that together. :]
12:40	PinkPosixPXE	Definitely, any time :)
12:40	pete_dushenski	asciilifeform to the extent that the vast majority fall into one of those two camps, maybe that'd be the defective element
12:40	kakobrekla	actually both camps.
12:41	pete_dushenski	and guessed by who, what? is another question
12:41	adlai	brains are definitely shitty entropy sources
12:41	adlai	but they can work fairly well for storing it
12:41	pete_dushenski	brains store stories well, "create" less well
12:42	kakobrekla	if you take out convenience factor completely theres is plenty of solutions
12:45	adlai	wtfireworks!?
12:46	kakobrekla	happy new year
12:46	kakobrekla	heard it here first
12:46	adlai	you know it's a srs display when chickens and dogs join in
12:47	adlai	http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/qntra-november-demo.jpg <- interesting that ~half the readership have kids, I'd have expected fewer
12:47	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1A8932L )
12:48	pete_dushenski	^sorta hard to "prove" they have kids
12:48	pete_dushenski	not like it's a browser setting
12:49	adlai	uhoh, site affinity for reddit.com is 51.2x!
12:52	adlai	https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net?qcLocale=en_US#!interests%2Fdomains
12:52	assbot	Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1A89UQO )
12:52	kakobrekla	meh reddit... 'reddit police' ddosing bbet, 'reddit bitcoin' retweeting bitbet tweets at same time
12:52	PinkPosixPXE	;;rate mod6 2 Great collaboration and work done for the Bitcoin Foundation : http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html
12:52	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1A89WZb )
12:52	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user mod6 has been recorded.
12:52	kakobrekla	love it or hate it ? make up your goddamn mind.
12:52	PinkPosixPXE	;;rate ben_vulpes 1 Great work done for the Bitcoin Foundation : http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html
12:52	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1A8a4rm )
12:52	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ben_vulpes has been recorded.
12:52	mod6	PinkPosixPXE: tyvm!
12:53	PinkPosixPXE	you're very welcome! :)
13:03	rithm	;;ratingsystem getrating mod6
13:03	gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask mod6!~mod6@unaffiliated/mod6 . User mod6, rated since Mon Oct 10 16:26:38 2011. Cumulative rating 46, from 25 total ratings. Received ratings: 25 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 28 positive, 0 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mod6
13:04	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00035408 = 12.499 BTC [+]
13:05	rithm	;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation sucks
13:05	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mod6 has been recorded.
13:06	kakobrekla	oh this is gonna cause so much confusion.
13:08	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1580 @ 0.001245 = 1.9671 BTC [+]
13:08	kakobrekla	i see, two soldiers from opposing foundation forces find themselfs in a pitch dark room.
13:09	kakobrekla	one hears something moving, points the gun in the dark and asks "who are you? are you with the bitcoin foundation?"
13:09	kakobrekla	the other surprised "yes! ... you?"
13:09	kakobrekla	"yes me too."
13:09	kakobrekla	then they proceed to shooting each other.
13:13	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74666 @ 0.00033987 = 25.3767 BTC [-] {2}
13:14	ben_vulpes	adlai: fentanyl: yes please
13:14	adlai	kakobrekla: cf "allied athiest alliance"
13:14	kakobrekla	a?
13:15	adlai	http://www.southparkstudios-q.mtvi.com/clips/2y8xoh/atheist-war
13:15	assbot	Atheist War - Video Clips - South Park Studios ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8esa5 )
13:15	kakobrekla	aha ok havent seen that
13:15	kakobrekla	ignorant n stuff
13:15	adlai	there are probably better ways to watch that clip/episode, but I definitely can't send you a url to an external HD that isn't even connected
13:20	adlai	tl;dw: three competing organizations wage endless war in the distant future: Allied Atheist Alliance, United Atheist Alliance, and Unified Atheist League
13:20	kakobrekla	aha but srsly i dont think that rithm thinks what he thinks he thinks
13:21	mod6	;;gpg info rithm
13:21	gribble	User 'rithm', with keyid None, fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 1FmiRARq96daxufSYKQM6SHDjwagV1J5XN, registered on Tue Apr 1 16:20:33 2014, last authed on Wed Jul 16 11:52:05 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=rithm . Currently not authenticated.
13:21	adlai	Dawkins... thought the future war among the different atheists sects, which he felt had "a certain amount of truth in it"... reminded him of the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea
13:21	adlai	(from http://www.playboy.com/playground/view/playboy-interview-richard-dawkins )
13:21	assbot	PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: RICHARD DAWKINS | Playboy ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8fqmK )
13:21	kakobrekla	aha yeah dont you mix those two
13:21	mod6	;;gpg info jcpham
13:21	gribble	User 'jcpham', with keyid C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, fingerprint F7299BD73879E866613EAB24C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, and bitcoin address 157CrafPv8oGC7f5vVFuLnE1BgDYUND4hq, registered on Fri Nov 11 12:21:29 2011, last authed on Mon Dec 1 10:26:41 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=jcpham . Currently authenticated from hostmask rithm!~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm . CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick.
13:22	mod6	ah. ok. rithm, you do realize that gavin & the power-rangers derpation thingy is different than ours tho right?
13:23	kakobrekla	<rithm> ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation sucks
13:23	kakobrekla	new:
13:23	kakobrekla	<rithm> ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation rocks
13:24	kakobrekla	fixes all confusion
13:24	rithm	;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation rocks the cocks
13:24	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mod6 has changed from 1 to 1.
13:24	mod6	heheh
13:24	ben_vulpes	rithm: f9beb4d9.org
13:25	rithm	this will never work because it's all plain text
13:25	rithm	at least use bottstrap
13:25	kakobrekla	idk what easier to remember the raw ip or that url
13:25	mod6	tough call
13:27	ben_vulpes	opera doesn't have browse history?
13:28	kakobrekla	i didnt claim it was a problem
13:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 915 @ 0.00124945 = 1.1432 BTC [+]
		~ 17 minutes ~
13:46	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00033897 = 22.2703 BTC [-]
13:53	BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2014/12/hsbc-cuts-ties-with-gabi/
13:53	assbot	HSBC Cuts Ties with GABI | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHRojw )
13:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 800 @ 0.00126967 = 1.0157 BTC [+] {8}
13:58	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22549 @ 0.00034725 = 7.8301 BTC [+]
13:58	adlai	global allied bitcoin allianca!
13:58	Anduck	.deeds
13:58	Anduck	.deed
13:58	adlai	;;isup deeds.bitcoin-assets.com
13:58	Anduck	its not up
13:58	gribble	deeds.bitcoin-assets.com is down
14:00	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla the blockquote text is borkt on http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/ << fixed
14:00	assbot	Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/12gaBN2 )
14:00	mod6	State Of Bitcoin Address: http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000017.html
14:00	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/12gaEs5 )
14:08	adlai	oooh why was I never pointed at http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-tech-stuff/
14:08	assbot	MPEx tech stuff pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHT7p3 )
14:10	BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/edwardmccabe/status/538723448189906944/photo/1
14:10	assbot	Its signed, must be legit http://t.co/bX3jlrGm79
14:11	adlai	hang around bitcoin for long enough and you realized that around these parts, "enhance" is pronounced "hash"
14:12	adlai	in case you've been living in a dark attic with no TV shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk
14:12	assbot	Let's Enhance - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/12geIJ4 )
14:13	kakobrekla	hehe
14:14	adlai	best part is when they fucking rotate the picture, I mean... did nobody in the film crew ever hold a fucking camera in their life!?
14:16	kakobrekla	bitwise rotation?
14:17	adlai	1:10 in the linked video
14:17	adlai	just... just watch it
14:21	rithm	therealbitcoin.org is easy enough to remember
14:23	rithm	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_sZbH4XM8
14:23	assbot	Why you don't want to watch CSI - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHUHHD )
14:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00033858 = 5.248 BTC [-]
14:39	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform << elaborate plz << what's to say really ? brains aren't made for thinking specifically anymore than html is made for the web. they just got pressed into this service.
14:40	mircea_popescu	it's a perpetual and uphill battle to keep them more or less in line with logic
14:40	mircea_popescu	and that's taking a very lax view of "line" and "logic".
14:40	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: legs weren't made for ballet either. what of it.
14:45	mircea_popescu	actually
14:45	mircea_popescu	no, legs were made for ballet quite specifically.
14:46	mircea_popescu	<adlai> http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/qntra-november-demo.jpg <- interesting that ~half the readership have kids, I'd have expected fewer << that's not what the data says.
14:46	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1FHX9hj )
14:46	mircea_popescu	according to whatever indexes they keep, qntra is above average is all.
14:47	mircea_popescu	like, if out of the 1bn people on the internet 100mn have kids, and out of the 1000 people on qntra 103 have kids.
14:47	kakobrekla	possibly
14:48	adlai	oic
14:48	adlai	it's an index relative to the internet average
14:49	mike_c	yes, and it's 97% certain to be within +- %50 of what it says.
14:52	kakobrekla	most of the time on average
14:52	mike_c	11% to 60% of the time
14:52	kakobrekla	aha hehe
14:53	mircea_popescu	lol
14:54	mircea_popescu	anyway, the "no black people" thing was funny. i guess cazalla's putting something in the water.
14:58	mircea_popescu	<kakobrekla> love it or hate it ? make up your goddamn mind. << what mind ?
14:58	mircea_popescu	that's why it's one reddit, no mind.
15:01	mircea_popescu	sooo... icbit is finally gone after all ?
15:03	mike_c	just hidden.
15:03	mike_c	https://icbit.se/WebTrade/Trading.aspx
15:03	assbot	ICBIT Web Trading ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHYYe0 )
15:05	mike_c	looks like volume is in the gutter though.
15:09	BingoBoingo	What, did icbit just pretend to slog along long enough that they won't be down a full month before their Bitbet closes? http://bitbet.us/bet/643/icbit-se-exchange-will-shut-down-in-2014/
15:09	assbot	BitBet - icbit.se exchange will shut down in 2014 :: 0.06 B (31%) on Yes, 0.14 B (69%) on No | closed 1 month 1 day ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZxVg )
15:10	mircea_popescu	<adlai> oooh why was I never pointed at << no actually i think you were, like eartly on
15:10	BingoBoingo	Is the new scamzor MO, "STFU we outlasted the BitBet Bet?"
15:10	mircea_popescu	mike_c well there's this out of business bitbet
15:11	mircea_popescu	and ima put a hold on it because srsly it does not seem to exist anymore.
15:11	mircea_popescu	i mean, broken website "rebranding" and wtf is this.
15:11	adlai	!s http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-tech-stuff/
15:11	assbot	MPEx tech stuff pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZOr6 )
15:11	assbot	2 results for 'http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-tech-stuff/' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2Ftrilema.com%2F2013%2Fmpex-tech-stuff%2F
15:11	mike_c	i am glad i'm not a mod. "out of business" is not so clear in btc-land..
15:12	mircea_popescu	mike_c fortunately total interest is like a quarter, so nobodu's losing any sleep over it.
15:12	mircea_popescu	http://bitbet.us/bet/643/icbit-se-exchange-will-shut-down-in-2014/
15:12	assbot	BitBet - icbit.se exchange will shut down in 2014 :: 0.06 B (31%) on Yes, 0.14 B (69%) on No | closed 1 month 1 day ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZVTz )
15:13	mircea_popescu	oops didn't see BingoBoingo's lol.
15:16	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83434 @ 0.00035558 = 29.6675 BTC [+] {3}
15:17	adlai	mpex chart dead again
15:17	adlai	er, mpoe
15:17	adlai	aha, it's only dead on .ws
15:19	mircea_popescu	i see it of course.
15:20	kakobrekla	<mike_c> https://icbit.se/WebTrade/Trading.aspx == https://orderbook.net/trade
15:20	assbot	ICBIT Web Trading ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI0FIp )
15:20	assbot	OrderBook.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI0FIt )
15:20	kakobrekla	same thing
15:21	kakobrekla	too much shit when you google their name so they switch my guess
15:21	mircea_popescu	you don't understand how rebranding works.
15:22	kakobrekla	im ignorant like that.
15:25	dub	ignant mafakas in dis #ferguson
15:31	BingoBoingo	https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/12/warning-fraud-alert/
15:31	assbot	WARNING! FRAUD ALERT | The Bitcoin Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI1WiN )
15:31	*	ben_vulpes is curious as to the total take
15:32	*	kakobrekla waits the day bitcoin foundation puts out a warning about bitcoin foundation
15:32	BingoBoingo	http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitcointalk.org
15:32	assbot	bitcointalk.org Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI25T9 )
15:32	BingoBoingo	That decline
15:35	mircea_popescu	"Over the past few days we have noticed a significant uptick in complaints directed at our help desk about a fraud being perpetrated upon innocent Bitcoin users."
15:35	mircea_popescu	nigga wut ? what desk lol.
15:35	asciilifeform	i was actually disappointed to learn that the linked piece was not about us.
15:35	mircea_popescu	where did they find a pretentious noob blogger to write this typical sort of pretentious noob blogger shit
15:37	BingoBoingo	lol, gawker too today http://gawker.com/magical-thinking-bitcoin-gathers-at-disney-1644521971
15:37	assbot	Magical Thinking: Bitcoin Gathers at Disney ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOfKr8 )
15:40	rithm	favorite quote so far: "That's enough money to create a small industry of people whose sole work is just sort of talking about bitcoin all the time."
15:40	BingoBoingo	Well, that did happen
15:42	adlai	if a scammer runs, but nobody in #bitcoin-assets lost money... did it even happen?
15:42	rithm	define money
15:43	rithm	losing time might be more precious than time in some circumstances
15:43	rithm	s/money
15:43	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54250 @ 0.00034363 = 18.6419 BTC [-] {3}
15:44	adlai	this is true, it's quite distressing, this lack of fungibility... I can pay somebody else for their time, but I can't buy mine back
15:44	adlai	although I guess retiring is a form of buying your own time
15:46	mircea_popescu	adlai you ever heard of patrick harnett's bitcoin bank etc ?
15:46	rithm	i would regret allowing myself to listen to the scammer in the first place, more than the money, it's a gut feeling thing
15:46	adlai	the name rings a bell, I'm sure google can deliver, if it's really relevant that I know this particular scam (it was a scam, no?)
15:46	rithm	i hate everyone.
15:47	rithm	the misprioritized time would be devastating
15:47	mircea_popescu	adlai guy was pretty much a sort of vessenes of 2012
15:47	mircea_popescu	kept making all sorts of idiotic claims, giving "ratings" and the whole shebang
15:47	rithm	did the starfish pull an exit scam also
15:47	mircea_popescu	professional and so forth.
15:47	rithm	?
15:47	mircea_popescu	then i lent him some btc he couldn't repay, specifically for this purpose
15:47	mircea_popescu	and then that was the end of him.
15:48	Apocalyptic	mircea_popescu, you lent like 200 btc, right ?
15:48	mircea_popescu	kinda shocking for the idiots at the time, because before i did that, everyone just schmoozied with the scamers
15:48	cazalla	does qntra's november report not verify? is that what davout is saying in his comment? if someone can check, would appreciate
15:48	mircea_popescu	as in, you know, rather than book a loss, pretend like it never happened. because if you don't agree it happened, it didn't really happen.
15:48	mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic something like that.
15:49	rithm	if you didn't blink an eye and give it two seconds thought, who is to say it happened
15:49	*	adlai has all kinds of things to say about giving 200btc to such a person, although they're founded on initial impressions so he'll keep them to himself
15:49	rithm	unless you spent a lot time cementing it into your relaity
15:49	mircea_popescu	cazalla : the problem is that wordpress fucks up the dashes
15:49	mircea_popescu	put <pre> tags around the text.
15:49	mircea_popescu	adlai was about 500 bux at the time.
15:50	mircea_popescu	money well spent, because it resolved a particular set of otherwise very pernicious claims.
15:50	mircea_popescu	just like the entire posters affair.
15:50	adlai	the guy welshed for $500!?
15:50	adlai	ok, let's say you weren't the only mark... still
15:51	rithm	mircea_popescu did better at "more than a car, less than a house" than me
15:51	rithm	unsecured loans are not a good idea, people.
15:53	mircea_popescu	adlai not what it was. more of a "couldn't really refuse" sort of thing.
15:54	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-11-2014#936968
15:54	assbot	Logged on 27-11-2014 12:56:26; nubbins`: mircea_popescu:well if he did nubbins has some 'splainin' to do lol. <<< nope, in fact, i am also mildly perturbed by the fact that i mailed over $4,000 of goods to the guy and we didn't even get a couple measly pictures out of it
15:54	mircea_popescu	same principle at work.
15:55	mircea_popescu	yeah, it cost me some money, but it also established a point. to my benefit, and of course to anyone else's who's paying attention, but that's a freebie for small fish.
15:55	mircea_popescu	kinda how this entire capitalism thing works.
15:55	cazalla	;;later tell davout fixed formatting, you should be able to verify now, ty for headsup
15:55	gribble	The operation succeeded.
15:55	mircea_popescu	also kinda why any kind of non-regressive taxation is bullshit.
15:55	mircea_popescu	the small players always benefit more from the big players than the reverse.
15:56	mircea_popescu	gpg: Good signature from "Jonathan Bahr ayup
15:57	cazalla	don't go putting my name in the logs lol
15:57	mircea_popescu	lol
15:57	cazalla	guess too late now
15:57	adlai	too late, it's there alongside robby
15:58	mircea_popescu	i'm sure anyone who cares enough could as well have folloed the gpg sig ?
15:59	mircea_popescu	anyway, who here wants to go to the next porn conference ?
15:59	rithm	me me me me i like pron
16:00	rithm	i'm bringing weed, crown royal, lots of blow, and not one change of clothes
16:00	mircea_popescu	http://show.adultentertainmentexpo.com/ specifically.
16:00	assbot	Adult Entertainment Expo 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOn1Hm )
16:01	cazalla	step foot on american soil? i'm good
16:01	BingoBoingo	Looks like a job for asciilifeform or ben_vulpes
16:01	mircea_popescu	aren;'t you closer to las vegas ?
16:01	mircea_popescu	maybe petey the pimp is going. yo pete.
16:02	rithm	i have people i can stay with in vegas
16:02	asciilifeform	i almost fell down. someone showed me a new intel cpu, and it had the inscription 'vietnam.'
16:02	mircea_popescu	so ?
16:03	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I'm closer than alf further than vulpes
16:03	mircea_popescu	anyway, i need someone to go there and bring me a coupla affiliate managers.
16:04	mircea_popescu	it's the last fucking stand.
16:04	rithm	breaking: http://serptonia.com/scoop/
16:04	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1rOnVUo )
16:04	rithm	serp has struck again
16:04	rithm	and scooped the bitcoin world
16:05	mircea_popescu	wut?
16:06	BingoBoingo	!up bettycla1p
16:06	BingoBoingo	Hello bettycla1p
16:06	rithm	apparently circle has something called circle red, they've just emailed people, and the checkout allows bitcoin
16:06	rithm	also coinbase lists "square" as a customer
16:07	rithm	so you just got scooped
16:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21530 @ 0.00033358 = 7.182 BTC [-] {2}
16:08	BingoBoingo	Happens, dunno how much news square can be though. Aren't they the derpy tablet dongle company?
16:10	mircea_popescu	http://www.playboy.com/articles/playboy-interview-richard-dawkins << this is the worst indictment of dawkins that could ever be devised, incidentally.
16:10	assbot	PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: RICHARD DAWKINS | Playboy ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOpuSa )
16:10	rithm	something like that
16:10	mircea_popescu	dude completely misses the points of theology.
16:10	mircea_popescu	prolly should stick to familiar terrain.
16:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61195 @ 0.00033254 = 20.3498 BTC [-] {2}
16:14	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2006 @ 0.00115549 = 2.3179 BTC [-] {14}
16:16	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00034428 = 11.9465 BTC [+] {2}
16:17	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1399 @ 0.00115 = 1.6089 BTC [+] {3}
16:17	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84700 @ 0.00033097 = 28.0332 BTC [-] {2}
16:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1105 @ 0.00115 = 1.2708 BTC [+] {3}
16:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20942 @ 0.00035277 = 7.3877 BTC [+]
		~ 22 minutes ~
16:45	mircea_popescu	"In investigating these claims, BitBeat viewed a bitcoin address at Blockchain.info that was cryptographically proven to belong to GAW and in which almost 28,000 bitcoins"
16:45	mircea_popescu	lol im sure it was.
16:46	BingoBoingo	Well, note that they express reservation on the point where GAW never showed them any "virgin" coinbase transactions
16:47	mircea_popescu	it was "cryptographically proven" lol.
16:47	mircea_popescu	power words!
16:48	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23536 @ 0.00033806 = 7.9566 BTC [-]
16:55	cazalla	"single Bitmain order to GAW worth 5 petahashes per second." <<< he twisted this as their latest order, it was their first because hey, gotta scam the funds first
16:56	cazalla	28k bitcoin yet can't point out a single block they've mined
16:58	mircea_popescu	who's bitmain, the antminer ppl ?
16:59	mircea_popescu	5ph = ~ 10k antiminers. they never made that many did they ?
17:01	rithm	lol at what cazalla said
17:01	rithm	generation address pretty easy to prove for a mining op
17:02	rithm	idk anything about it, I'm scamfree since 2012
17:02	rithm	new coin generation not something to be obscured though, that's for sure for a mining op, huge red flag
17:03	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I dunno much other than they seem to ship something.
17:03	rithm	but iff all they have is a bunch of miners that doesn't imply new coin generation or a pool
17:03	rithm	just means they have a lot of miners mining away
17:03	rithm	obv you'd want to run your own block source and clustered hashing for failover purposes
17:04	rithm	or new coin generation
		~ 28 minutes ~
17:32	BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2014/12/un-report-criticises-united-states-on-human-rights/
17:32	assbot	UN Report Criticises United States on Human Rights | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1rPQ7k5 )
17:35	BingoBoingo	Compare and contrast to the Miami Herlad version being passed around http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/guantanamo/article4198431.html
17:35	assbot	U.N. panel raps U.S. record on torture, cites Guantánamo | The Miami Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1rPQVWi )
17:36	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00034106 = 19.8497 BTC [+]
17:42	thestringpuller	;;seen diana_coman
17:42	gribble	diana_coman was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 7 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 54 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <diana_coman> I'm to blame for Sweete__ being here, since he pm-ed me about trading and I asked him why wasn't he in here if he was a trader
17:42	jurov	!mpif
17:42	assbot	BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021745 B (Total: 475.53 B). Delta: 0.52 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-]
17:42	jurov	!t m f.mpif
17:42	assbot	[MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000195 / 0.000195 / 0.000195 (4601 shares, 0.90 BTC)
		~ 24 minutes ~
18:07	mats_cd03	http://youtu.be/aYDfwUJzYQg
18:07	assbot	Primus - Wynona's Big Brown Beaver - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSVauo )
18:10	nubbins`	so apparently the paper that we're using for the book covers is being discontinued
18:11	nubbins`	if any of you live in major metropolitan centres in north america and want something in return for your time, pm me
18:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52741 @ 0.00033646 = 17.7452 BTC [-] {4}
18:20	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo omfg check this out, pravda lying about what the un said.
18:20	mircea_popescu	why history repeats itself so much! boring history! bad history!
18:21	mircea_popescu	lol nubsy has a trade network.
18:25	nubbins`	no kidding hey
18:26	cazalla	http://qntra.net/2014/12/bitcoin-blackmailer-given-four-year-jail-sentence/
18:26	assbot	Bitcoin Blackmailer Given Four Year Jail Sentence | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSXqBI )
18:26	nubbins`	boston, seattle, annapolis on the hunt already ;p
18:28	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well, it's why we needed a qntra to serve as the billboard next to the city's gates. Gotta put indictments somewhere.
18:29	mircea_popescu	lol
18:29	BingoBoingo	Re: lizard hitler, Deposed? http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/usa-hunters-find-bullets-from-american-civil-war-in-185-year-old-alligators-hide/
18:29	assbot	USA: Hunters Find Bullets from American Civil War in 185-Year Old Alligator’s Hide ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSXRfy )
18:32	mircea_popescu	which side ?
18:34	BingoBoingo	They are guessing confederate
18:35	BingoBoingo	But... can only trust the pravda so much. Prolly from when Obama's great grandfather was sent on a secret mission to assasinate the great reptillian
18:35	mircea_popescu	lol
18:38	mircea_popescu	"DAWKINS: No, never. But suppose an intermediate species hadn’t gone extinct. Suppose relict populations are discovered in the African jungle. In order to deny chimpanzees rights, you would have to set up apartheid-like courts to decide whether this individual counts as human. Because it’s a continuum. As a practical matter, the intermediates haven’t survived, so it’s possible to give humans basic rights and gi
18:38	mircea_popescu	ve chimpanzees none. But I think it’s a worthwhile argument."
18:38	mircea_popescu	it's a worhtwhile argument that the only reason blacks aren't chimps is that some middle links died off ?!
18:39	mircea_popescu	dude this playboy interview is one of the stupidest things i ever read.
18:39	mircea_popescu	i had a much better impression on dawkins
18:41	BingoBoingo	Everyone gets a dissapoint today!
18:48	gernika	Anyone who has travelled to Buenos Aires have some recommendations for getting pesos once there? I assume the airport kiosks are total ripoff.
18:48	mircea_popescu	!up UltimateNate
18:48	mircea_popescu	gernika florida.
18:49	mircea_popescu	should get 12-13 per dollar.
18:49	danielpbarron	how convenient, the intermediate species don't exist... but the Bible is still wrong because science!
18:50	gernika	mircea_popescu: Calle Florida. Got it. Thanks.
18:51	undata	danielpbarron: the bible can be wrong all on its own, though science can help
18:53	undata	As far as *why* there aren't intermediate species left, there are plenty of possible answers. One of them might be that early human populations were into cracking competing skulls
18:53	jurov	!deed http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201411.txt.asc
18:53	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HT0YnA )
18:53	jurov	where's notary?
18:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5963 @ 0.00033484 = 1.9967 BTC [-]
18:54	mircea_popescu	ya srsly
18:54	mircea_popescu	punkman ?
18:54	danielpbarron	.deed http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201411.txt.asc
18:54	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HT14M2 )
18:57	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00033034 = 9.266 BTC [-]
18:59	gernika	danielpbarron: What are the criteria for something to be an intermediate species? How long does something have to have been around and how large does the population have to be for it to be classified as such? Seems like for populations that were at no time higher than the hundreds of thousands it would be very unlikely to expect to find fossils. Google tells me the peak population of neanderthals
18:59	gernika	was 70,000.
19:04	BingoBoingo	Neanderthals died for their socialism
19:04	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.00032897 = 10.9383 BTC [-] {2}
19:05	mircea_popescu	it's nto as simple as a headcount.
19:06	mircea_popescu	every single snail leaves a fossil. few cephalopodes do. etc.
19:08	BingoBoingo	https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2nz8yi/coin_fire_response_to_gaw_miners_cd/cmidaov
19:08	assbot	Coin Fire Response to GAW Miners C&D : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT2QN4 )
19:09	BingoBoingo	One step forward, two steps back with these coinfire people.
19:12	undata	danielpbarron: you just wanted to shout "bible is right!" eh?
19:12	undata	strange, I didn't expect to see that around here
19:15	mats_cd03	wow, scribd is even worse than before
19:17	mircea_popescu	http://www.xenosystems.net/chaos-patch-38/ << this guy, that apparently binges on trilema, linked http://trilema.com/2014/of-mendacity-mold-bugs-and-other-things/
19:17	assbot	Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » Chaos Patch (#38) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT47Uk )
19:17	assbot	Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT47Up )
19:17	mircea_popescu	and so i tried to read that thing with the eyes of a stranger
19:17	mircea_popescu	holy hell i have no idea what i'm even saying.
19:18	mircea_popescu	decimation A more interesting question is: how does 'black music' go from Louis Armstrong to thug rap in 50 years?
19:18	mircea_popescu	mircea popescu The white hierarchy supporting society collapsed ? How does the French underground go from rengaine to "Irreversible" ? WW2. Most of the better Frenchmen got shot.
19:18	mircea_popescu	holy shit how could that make any sense to anyone other than me ?
19:19	mircea_popescu	i specifically meant rengaine as a reference to "Quand je m'endors bercée par une rengaine j'suis soudain réveillée par des cris"
19:19	mircea_popescu	which is part of dans ma rue, this thing : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUByZb1CkXM
19:19	assbot	Edith PIAF Dans ma rue - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT4m1Q )
19:19	mircea_popescu	a song about forced prostitution and hunger in earlier france.
19:19	mircea_popescu	now who the fuck could hav efigured that out. i gotta make more footnotes.
19:20	mircea_popescu	undata yes, danielpbarron is a biblical literalist.
19:22	mircea_popescu	and irreversible is of course that atrocious production with the 10 minute bellucci rape scene.
19:23	mircea_popescu	(who, incidentally, only does movies if she's raped in them, for some reason. perhaps with the exception of that one where she kills herself at dinner with her ex.)
19:23	gernika	mircea_popescu: I find that if I follow your hints, I can understand more of each of your posts. 1. Research all references not understood. 2. Read multiple times. 3. Get better at reading by learning what words actually mean (that is, learning the etymology of each).
19:24	mircea_popescu	gernika i had a slavegirl apply this process to a few pages of shaw. took her A YEAR
19:24	mircea_popescu	course, it did markedly improve pretty much any language-related cognitive function in the process.
19:24	mircea_popescu	but still. takes a while.
19:25	gernika	That seems reasonable. I believe I'm looking at 5 to 10 years of work.
19:25	mircea_popescu	sounds like a fucking degree.
19:25	hanbot	mircea_popescu she wasn't raped in coppola's dracula, ftr.
19:25	gernika	Well, first I have to learn Greek. Then Latin.
		↖
19:26	mircea_popescu	hanbot well... you are aware vampirism is a rape metaphor yes ?
19:27	mircea_popescu	"Why are you locking up these important notices in a PDF turd hosted on a site with Facebook integration." BingoBoingo because they seek external validation, and they believe inaccessibility and hermetism are a good proxy. like all ignoramuses ever do believe.
19:27	hanbot	in that case, i suppose she rapes a baby.
19:27	mircea_popescu	this is a cognate of the guy who bought glasses to read. because that's what he was missing.
19:27	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.0011501 = 1.1501 BTC [-] {2}
19:28	mircea_popescu	hanbot which is this one anyway ? the 90s thing with ryder ?
19:29	hanbot	mhm
19:29	mircea_popescu	o yeah she was one of the brides huh
19:29	mircea_popescu	the one with the nice tits.
19:30	hanbot	mircea_popescu you oughta do billings for films
19:31	mircea_popescu	it's one of the skills i reserve for the scavenger world to come.
19:31	mircea_popescu	i will be this codgery old guy with an ellaborate cough, an old german trenchcoat, aviator eye goggles and a sorta-functioning projector
19:32	mircea_popescu	doing hand drawn posters for re-runs of old films.
19:32	assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2TEXDFF.txt )
19:32	BingoBoingo	!b 3
19:32	mircea_popescu	anyway, it's incredible how much bellucci looks like an italian matron as she ages.
19:33	mircea_popescu	spitting fucking image, she could have sucked cock off via flaminia sixteen centuries ago, only her hair'd be different.
19:35	mod6	<+mircea_popescu> the one with the nice tits. << indeed.
19:36	mircea_popescu	how did that go, "if your nipples don't float halfway between your chin and your belly button, your tits ain't big enough"
19:37	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34800 @ 0.00033373 = 11.6138 BTC [+]
19:41	ben_vulpes	undata, danielpbarron: things on the manifold of reality find trajectories of stability away from each other because niche specialization
19:44	undata	ben_vulpes: well said; I have my doubts as to whether this particular one is stable
19:51	gernika	Reading at a higher level seems akin to using higher level programming languages. The ability to pack more information into fewer lexical units is powerful. Just realized this.
19:55	nubbins`	dat jargon
19:56	mircea_popescu	amusingly enough, species exist for the same exact reason and through apparently the same mechanism subatomic particles "exist"
19:56	mircea_popescu	ie, as training wheels on a function wave.
20:03	cazalla	http://qntra.net/2014/12/moneybeat-a-wsj-blog-confirms-gaw-miners-is-a-ponzi/
20:03	assbot	MoneyBeat, A WSJ Blog, Confirms GAW Miners Is A Ponzi | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1zaVcId )
20:06	mircea_popescu	cazalla can easily be read as "one order was this much".
20:07	cazalla	easy for him to confirm the rest or for bitmain to do so if they respond to my email
20:07	cazalla	anyway, his timeline is still fucked up, bitmain didn't even ship scrpt miners back in october nor can you mine scypt coins with sha256 asics despite him claiming otherwise
20:08	cazalla	only a scammer would mix the 2 up
20:20	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62100 @ 0.0003286 = 20.4061 BTC [-]
20:26	mircea_popescu	that's a point.
20:26	mircea_popescu	or two.
20:27	mircea_popescu	"Josh Garza – What we can talk about is everybody, so, we quite literally use every major manufacturer in the world, so, bitmain, we're actually in discussions right now with bitfury, *inaudible*, I mean, every single company. We are in the process of beginning to build our own chip, we do have hardware that is not publicly available that created economies of scale for us, kinda all over the place, probably a less gl
20:27	mircea_popescu	amorous answer than you were looking for but we actually are putting the finishing touches on one of our biggest data centres yet in the next couple of weeks, I actually spoke to someone a few days ago who saw it and he's never seen that many miners and flash computers in one place."
20:27	mircea_popescu	ew.
20:36	adlai	flash... computers?
20:37	adlai	... computers with flashplayer installed?
20:39	ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: training wheels on a function wave?
20:50	decimation	maybe they hacked those chinese flash cards with onboard microcontrollers for write leveling/usb to compute
20:51	decimation	re: regressive tax < pete_dushenski made me aware that Russia actually has a regressive tax, probably for the same reason you think it is a good idea - the rich are more likely to pay
20:52	undata	decimation: 13%, the communists!
20:53	decimation	yeah, plus that highly regressive 'social security' tax
20:53	decimation	and vat
20:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54850 @ 0.00033481 = 18.3643 BTC [+] {2}
20:54	thestringpuller	;;seen jurov
20:54	gribble	jurov was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours and 51 seconds ago: <jurov> where's notary?
20:55	decimation	!up archLinuxUser
20:55	thestringpuller	;;later tell jurov withdrawals
20:55	gribble	The operation succeeded.
20:55	undata	decimation: woah, 28% on the lowest tier of UST?
20:55	decimation	yeah, but there's a cap
20:56	undata	so it seems "half" is the usual amount of taxation wherever you are
20:56	undata	it just comes with different names
20:56	decimation	no, the 28% only applies to the first $16k of income
20:57	decimation	although it appears that there are other taxes depending on which region one resides
20:59	ben_vulpes	;;ticker
20:59	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 375.91, Best ask: 376.95, Bid-ask spread: 1.04000, Last trade: 376.98, 24 hour volume: 7114.68684683, 24 hour low: 373.03, 24 hour high: 382.31, 24 hour vwap: 378.26456952
21:04	decimation	!up xinxiwang
21:04	xinxiwang	thanks
21:05	decimation	np. I take it that you hail from singapore?
21:05	cazalla	http://qntra.net/2014/12/mastercards-submission-to-economics-references-committee-now-available/
21:05	assbot	MasterCard's Submission To Economics References Committee Now Available | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1v84HDK )
21:05	cazalla	pretty lulzy
21:05	xinxiwang	right. I am from SG.
21:06	decimation	xinxiwang: I've always wanted to ask a singaporean what he thought about politics in the us compared to politics in sg
21:06	ben_vulpes	"Currently, digital currencies lack the basic protections consumers have come to expect when transacting online. For example, contrary to a consumer's experience when paying wit a MasterCard product, if a consumer uses digital currency to make a purchase on line and the merchant fails to deliver the goods, the consumer has no recourse through the digital currency's network." << oh lordy
21:06	asciilifeform	so here's a poor man's mega-lol. i buy two 'eizo' sx2462w monsters. both show up, were packed in new, m0d3rn expanding chemical foam. one - properly. other - with all the foam on one side of crate. naturally, frame cracked, 'bullet hole' of dead blue pixel on crystal.
21:06	xinxiwang	I study here actually.
21:07	xinxiwang	but I guess SG is a quiet place. US has a lot of news.
21:07	decimation	heh that's a subtle way of putting it
21:07	decimation	asciilifeform: RMA?
21:07	asciilifeform	thing is, these are $1.5k machines that sold together for 300. what, ask for refund for one?
21:07	asciilifeform	decimation: secondhand.
21:07	decimation	ah sucks
21:08	decimation	maybe eizo can repair
21:08	decimation	sounds like you got a good deal in any case
21:08	asciilifeform	decimation: LOL
21:08	decimation	yeah by 'repair' I mean 'replace important bits'
21:08	decimation	mainly the whole screen
21:08	asciilifeform	decimation: for cost of a new crystal - sure.
21:08	decimation	maybe for you, today, they sell for $1.4k
21:09	asciilifeform	1.5 - epsilon.
21:09	asciilifeform	just thinking about the imbecile who packed.
21:09	asciilifeform	it wasn't the vendor.
21:09	decimation	did you buy from ebay or something
21:09	asciilifeform	but instead, a monkey, not answerable for his actions
21:09	asciilifeform	ebay where else.
21:10	asciilifeform	only reason i even bother to bring this headache up here in #b-a is that it presents an interesting case
21:10	decimation	I went to a ebay 'junk dealer' once. The owner knew his electronics, but he employed a bunch of monkeys to pack, ship, and do clerical work
21:10	asciilifeform	it was a unicorn, and the usual shipper-insurance/vendor-guarantee combo does not really work on unicorns.
21:11	asciilifeform	nor a third unicorn.
21:11	BingoBoingo	You could ask for a portion of the monkey?
21:11	decimation	still, it sounds like you got a good deal
21:11	decimation	heh a 'pound of flesh'
21:11	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: and do what with it? smoke it ?
21:12	asciilifeform	decimation: all the pleasure of good deal, ruined by getting shafted in a newly discovered (personally) way
21:12	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Mount in lucite, use as paperweight
21:12	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: i already own a 200 pound paperweight (lisp machine) - don't need a 30
21:13	BingoBoingo	30 is easier to toss at monkeys than 200
21:15	BingoBoingo	I was thinking more like a pinky finger cased in lucite, the chunk of flesh, not the monitor
21:15	asciilifeform	lol, i've quite the collection of freshly minted 'paperweights' here (all the retiring non-eizo panels)
21:15	asciilifeform	eizo, opium of the eye
21:15	asciilifeform	once yer hooked - yer hooked.
21:16	asciilifeform	consumer crystals look like shit afterwards.
21:17	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: them.
21:17	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: the gizmos in question were 'sx2462w'.
21:20	ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: i've only just started to appreciate it
21:22	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: http://www.eizo.se/default.aspx?page=11&product=SX2462WF-BK
21:22	assbot	Eizo ... ( http://bit.ly/1rPPgFF )
21:23	ben_vulpes	dunno how i hit enter there...
21:23	kakobrekla	this will get a bit spammy, but i want to have it in the log, so lets just get it over with.
21:23	ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: i've only just now started appreciating good wines, i don't care to get into "good" monitors too.
21:24	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: l0l!
21:24	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: it's every bit as evil as you think. esp. given as (i, at least) 'drink' considerably more display than wine.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #1: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #2: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #3: FAILURE (broken since this build); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #4: FAILURE (broken since build #3); Comment: result of applying the chicken patch
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #5: FAILURE (broken since build #3); Comment: initial commit: asciilifeform's manifest and rm's manifest and 'chicken' patch
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #6: FAILURE (broken since build #3); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #7: FAILURE (broken since build #3); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #8: FAILURE (broken since build #3); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #9: SUCCESS (back to normal); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #10: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: empty folders are required for build to pass
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #11: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #12: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: ben vulpes' rm_rf_upnp patch
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #13: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: asciilifeform's https-snipsnip patch
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #14: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #15: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #16: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: asciilifeform's turdmeister-alert-snip patch
21:26	assbot	f9beb4d9 #17: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: asciilifeform's goodbye-win-32 patch
21:26	kakobrekla	everyone survived?
21:26	asciilifeform	kakobrekla: neato
21:27	asciilifeform	kakobrekla: i take it turdatron functions to spec now?
21:27	mike_c	assbot plz send donation to b-a donation address.
21:27	kakobrekla	ask ben_vulpes about the feed
21:27	asciilifeform	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html << only displays one
21:27	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1v8bGwz )
21:27	asciilifeform	or is there a new site
21:27		Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $250 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1078/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.216 BTC. Current weight: 95,586.
21:29	kakobrekla	he made a jenkins setup but url is private as server is not ddos ready, so ask him.
21:31	asciilifeform	the beauty of the everything-pgp-signed concept is that this thing ought to be deadly-easy to mirror.
21:31	asciilifeform	ideally should come with a script that establishes that a copy is 100% canonical.
21:31	asciilifeform	(given public keys of the players)
21:33	decimation	cazalla: I want more winklevoss coverage!
21:34	cazalla	decimation, they're pretty quiet
21:34	decimation	yeah, it seems they are already derped by much of of the 'tardstream' media anyway
21:35	decimation	few actual important details have been released, like "where they are gonna buy bitcoin" and "how they gonna index btc price"
21:35	decimation	!up xinxiwang
21:36	decimation	asciilifeform: one thing that annoys me about most distro crypto-discipline is that they pretend that only the 'maintainers' could sign
21:36	decimation	why should I trust some derp who 'volunteers' for arch over the upstream creator?
21:36	asciilifeform	decimation: aha, the 'anonymous monkeys submit, poettering signs' model
21:36	decimation	exactly
21:36	decimation	which is nearly universal as far as I can tell
21:37	decimation	and note that "Maintenance" nearly always consists of adding some derpy package turd
21:38	decimation	!up Dr-G
21:38	undata	I don't see how you solve that problem without having all source packages grabbed directly from creators with signatures verified, and compiling yourself
21:38	undata	binary package systems would be difficult
21:38	decimation	undata: true, but how else does one 'convey' trust?
21:39	undata	decimation: yep, I think it's necessary
21:39	undata	portage will save us all
21:39	decimation	Dr-G: are you connected via tor and then sasl, or end-to-end sasl to freenode?
21:39	decimation	well, gentoo is pretty close to having 'unpackages'
21:40	undata	decimation: how are you defining unpackages?
21:41	decimation	'make install' the turd as it comes without modification
21:41	undata	ah yeah
21:41	decimation	one of the main problems that linux packaging aims to solve is exactly the issue ascii rants about, that is - lack of a global namespace for code
21:42	undata	it'd be neat to publish the hash of a given release of a package into the blockchain
21:42	decimation	could be done with a 'deed'
21:43	undata	that'd be miles better than just trusting what ended up in the ebuild
21:44	undata	there's always the hard problem of bootstrapping your build tools in a secure way
21:45	undata	then of course the whole thing is moot on broken hardware
21:45	decimation	heh yeah
21:46	decimation	as ascii says, we don't even have computers yet
		~ 21 minutes ~
22:07	BingoBoingo	!up xinxiwang
22:11	*	asciilifeform plugged in the two 'eizo' panels spoken of earlier, can actually -feel- the heat now
22:13	kakobrekla	yes it can be felt here on 5x27" as well but no tan :\
22:24	decimation	asciilifeform: price you pay for quality crystal - lots of light
22:24	decimation	probably affecting your ability to produce melatonin at night
22:25	asciilifeform	decimation: and aha, these aren't piss-ant led lights either. ccfl tubes - which means they can't be cranked down all the much (and stay lit)
22:25	decimation	yeah designed for max life at max performance
22:25	asciilifeform	melatonin at night: for what it's worth, i usually tune the gamma to be heavy on the red
22:26	mike_c	v2 of the bitbet analyzer is so cool i almost want to keep it to myself. i'd win all the bitcoins.
22:26	decimation	probably with sophisticated diffusers
22:26	decimation	mike_c: are you saying that luck ain't got nothing to do with it?
22:26	mike_c	not for long.
22:26	decimation	this mastercard in australia thing is lulzy
22:27	decimation	as far as I know few/no american tardstream media is covering
22:27	decimation	it's obviously an idea balloon that they are going to try to use to kill bitcoin dead everywhere
22:27	mike_c	my credit card company sent me a new card recently for my safety.
22:27	asciilifeform	wai wat
22:27	asciilifeform	australia mastercard ?
22:27	mike_c	now i'm lost
22:27	decimation	asciilifeform: the link cazalla dropped http://qntra.net/2014/12/mastercards-submission-to-economics-references-committee-now-available/
22:27	assbot	MasterCard's Submission To Economics References Committee Now Available | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1A9OBOW )
22:28	PeterL	!up patate
22:28	asciilifeform	lol
22:28	cazalla	decimation was pretty clear imo
22:28	decimation	mike_c: did it have a secret number on the front that you were only to share with pre-trusted individuals
22:28	patate	hello
22:28	decimation	I think this is common in the 'democratic' world - 'venue shopping'
22:28	mike_c	yes. and now i have to run around to all the individuals i trusted before and change it.
22:28	asciilifeform	mastercard << reads like yet another 'let's whip the hellespont.'
22:28	BingoBoingo	Hello patate
22:28	decimation	"but germany agreed to X"
22:29	mike_c	for "my" safety. except i'm not liable for fraud. so actually they are being a pain in my ass for their safety. fucking home depot.
22:29	PeterL	patate: what brings you to #bitcoin-assets?
22:29	decimation	when my credit card number kept getting stolen (before I was smart about website passwords), amex refused to change anything other than the last 4 digits when 're-issued'
22:29	patate	i love discover irc chats
22:29	mike_c	cazalla: "MasterCard is calling for such regulation regulation"
22:30	decimation	I called customer service and they said that it would be quite impossible to change the first set of numbers, because that's my account number
22:30	decimation	I wanted to burn
22:30	cazalla	mike_c, ty
22:30	mike_c	this has nothing to do with website shopping
22:30	mike_c	i bought some fucking lightbulbs at home depot
22:31	mike_c	credit cards are so bad it is mind-boggling.
22:31	decimation	yeah I think we discussed the dumbification of pos terminals in the past http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2014#825488
22:31	assbot	Logged on 11-09-2014 03:44:22; *: decimation remembers every pos and library using said terminals growing up, only to be replaced with buggy-ass windows for no reason
		↖
22:32	decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2014#825489
22:32	assbot	Logged on 11-09-2014 03:44:31; *: asciilifeform also saw this
22:32	BingoBoingo	Wait, people actually go to Home Depot to buy stuff they'd want a record of buying?
22:32	asciilifeform	lol, BingoBoingo and his drain pipe howitzers
22:32	cazalla	and breaking bad plots
22:32	mike_c	hm? i don't mind people knowing i bought lightbulbs. it was only a couple.
22:32	BingoBoingo	Allegedly
22:32	decimation	mike_c: you know the thing that pisses me off the most? every retail store/credit card company conspires to record every bit of information about you that they can
22:32	mike_c	yes. i hate that too.
22:33	decimation	but as far as I know, there is no service the lets you download your own itemized receipts
22:33	decimation	like, you know, so you can share in the bounty of their information?
22:33	BingoBoingo	Still, do you really want some insurer or landlord knowing how much spackle you had to buy to patch the walls after the bacanals
22:33	mike_c	sorry, your shopping habits are their information, not yours.
22:33	mike_c	BingoBoingo: lol :) i use cash for the spackle.
22:34	asciilifeform	kgb didn't let you grab your own real time bug feeds either.
22:34	PeterL	there are document scanners which database-ize receipts
22:34	decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-11-2014#926251
22:34	assbot	Logged on 17-11-2014 04:35:56; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they wish to steal not merely the farmer's cow, but to also steal the farmer's "having being stolen from" << usg (and the 'enlightenment') in one sentence.
22:34	asciilifeform	somebody is confused re: how surveillance works
22:34	mike_c	this is just marketing though. or at least, that's the primary use case.
22:34	asciilifeform	seeing exactly what the enemy sees (and doesn't see) is almost half as good as not being watched
22:34	decimation	asciilifeform: I don't even want to see what he sees of all people, just of me
22:34	asciilifeform	precisely that
22:34	decimation	like, at least the panopticon can be a good secretary?
22:35	decimation	but even *that* has been stolen too
22:35	cazalla	yall don't have a rewards card for every store?
22:35	decimation	cazalla: I use 'generic' rewards card
22:35	asciilifeform	'Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it; moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plate commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceiv
22:35	asciilifeform	able that they watched everybody all the time. but at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You have to live - did live, from habit that became instinct - in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.'
22:36	kakobrekla	cazalla not a single one, but i get asked to join various regularly.
22:36	cazalla	kakobrekla, what? you don't have a rewards card? here is a form, please fill out
22:36	kakobrekla	hehe
22:36	asciilifeform	every penny i spend is recorded. even at parking meters.
22:36	decimation	yeah it's almost impossible to use 'cash' in the us these days
22:36	asciilifeform	(my town recently installed cc readers even there.)
22:37	*	BingoBoingo rewatching Jurassic Park. I bet John Hammond wishes he would have bought Symbolics instead of *nix.
22:37	decimation	except - I recall when a massive snowstorm moved up the east coast and wiped out all the telco lines - suddenly everywhere was 'cash only'
22:37	asciilifeform	decimation: except that not everything is even equipped to take cash.
22:37	mike_c	that mastercard post on qntra is great. a good candidate for promotion (slashdot? reddit?)
22:38	decimation	asciilifeform: yeah exactly
22:38	cazalla	BingoBoingo, i know this, it's a unix system!
22:38	BingoBoingo	I've been reddit killed.
22:38	patate	i love potatoes
22:38	asciilifeform	for instance, where i live, paying with paper money at a filling station requires a human clerk to turn a crank
22:38	asciilifeform	hence, lengthy queue where otherwise none.
22:39	mike_c	<+BingoBoingo> I've been reddit killed. << just being in this channel seems to get a person banned from half the internet
22:39	decimation	asciilifeform: have you read herr Saltzer's end-to-end argument? http://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/endtoend/endtoend.pdf‎
22:39	assbot	MIT 404 Error - file not found ... ( http://bit.ly/1A9QLhB )
22:39	BingoBoingo	ALso look at slate bullying the nerd http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/12/james_watson_selling_nobel_prize_dna_structure_discoverer_s_history_of_racism.html
22:39	assbot	James Watson selling Nobel Prize: DNA structure discoverer’s history of racism and sexism. ... ( http://bit.ly/1A9QQSd )
22:39	asciilifeform	decimation: negative
22:40	decimation	asciilifeform: it captures some of the 'spirit' of stripping down bitcoind
22:40	decimation	Saltzer wrote multics, which is the ancestor of unix, more or less
22:41	asciilifeform	watson should publicly sink it into the mariana trench, or some other 'black hole'
22:41	asciilifeform	if gonna troll, do it right.
22:41	decimation	that's awesome. I agree, should toss into volcano
22:42	decimation	or better yet, send it to 1600 pennsylvania avenue
22:42	BingoBoingo	Dunno selling it to the Winkelvii would be pretty troll.
22:42	BingoBoingo	Or Mike Tyson
22:42	asciilifeform	http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/12/de_extinction_ethics_why_extinct_species_shouldn_t_be_brought_back.html << another mega-lol from same rag.
22:42	assbot	De-extinction ethics: Why extinct species shouldn’t be brought back. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CA9mrX )
22:43	asciilifeform	^ idiot luddite hates (so far, theoretical) 'de-extinction' tech because...
22:43	asciilifeform	'That’s because wiping out the passenger pigeon, the heath hen, the Tasmanian tiger, and so on, as regrettable as these events were, wasn’t the real mistake. It was only the indicator of a deeper moral and cultural malady.'
22:43	decimation	'because man isn't natural'
22:43	asciilifeform	this is a deeper idiocy
22:44	patate	someone here speak french
22:44	BingoBoingo	Maybe?
22:45	decimation	pardon?
22:45	*	BingoBoingo proposes Giant Ground Sloth for resurection
22:46	asciilifeform	imbecile isn't even arguing that 'it could wreck existing xyz'
22:46	asciilifeform	but that 'removes moral dimension!'
22:47	cazalla	patate, voulez vous coucher avec moi ce soir?
22:47	decimation	asciilifeform: but even if you believe man is created by God (as I do) you would still have to believe that God failed to anticipate what man would do to nature, and/or man could somehow outsmart Him
22:47	patate	non
22:47	BingoBoingo	North America needs moar Mega fauna.
22:47	asciilifeform	reminds me of... 'The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.' (Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation)
22:47	decimation	yeah the anti-nuke stuff is lulzy too
22:48	gernika	asciilifeform: I recently read Englebard's Violin and managed to get ahold of a Twiddler. Have you used it?
22:48	asciilifeform	gernika: nope
22:48	asciilifeform	gernika: on account of - not ergonomic.
22:48	asciilifeform	not hand shaped, no tactile spring switches - do not want.
22:49	decimation	there was a gentleman who bicycled across the country with a modded 1990's era computer bike - and he had a chorded keyboard
22:49	decimation	this genthttp://microship.com/resources/winnebiko-behemoth.html
22:50	gernika	asciilifeform: the buttons definitely click when you press them, but that is not what you're talking about?
22:50	decimation	http://microship.com/resources/resourcepix/behemothwisc.jpg
22:50	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1CAauM9 )
22:50	asciilifeform	can you hear then across a room?
22:50	asciilifeform	or do they 'click' like mouse.
22:51	gernika	asciilifeform: also yes it's not hand shaped, but also does n't require you to twist your hand and splay your fingers
22:51	gernika	asciilifeform: not like the old ibm keyboards that sort of ring when you click them no.
22:51	asciilifeform	ideal device would have rotary jointed finger slots.
22:51	decimation	asciilifeform: do you own one of Cy Enfield's widgets?
22:52	asciilifeform	and adjustable tension switches
22:52	asciilifeform	decimation: yes. the original 'microwriter.'
22:53	decimation	asciilifeform: do you imagine some kind of 'data glove'?
22:53	asciilifeform	not so fond of gloves.
22:53	asciilifeform	sweat.
22:53	asciilifeform	and the notion of moving fingers without any feedback springs is lunacy
22:53	cazalla	powerglove perhaps?
22:53	asciilifeform	see above
22:54	asciilifeform	!s gorilla arm
22:54	assbot	3 results for 'gorilla arm' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gorilla+arm
22:54	decimation	yeah, one needs a 'glove with feedback'
22:54	gernika	asciilifeform: why are tactile spring switches more ergonomic? Do they prevent you from pressing with too much strength?
22:54	asciilifeform	they give an immediate, palpable 'stop moving now'
22:54	decimation	basically a robotic hand that gently attaches to your own?
22:55	asciilifeform	i seriously doubt that you can get spring feedback from anything other than an actual spring.
22:55	asciilifeform	and at this point i don't even care if i'm simply habituated to springs or if there is something 'intrinsic and natural' about spring clicks. i refuse to do without them.
22:55	PeterL	there are various forms of spring to pick from
22:56	asciilifeform	just like wearing clothing, or shitting in a toilet rather than in pants, are also 'mere' habits
22:56	asciilifeform	that one could, conceivably, experiment with forgoing
22:56	asciilifeform	not interested in such experiments.
22:56	decimation	asciilifeform: basically the same action as your model-m buckling springs?
22:56	asciilifeform	presently i'm not even using a 'model m', but a 'northgate'
22:56	asciilifeform	(switches by 'alps', long ago defunct)
22:57	asciilifeform	'alps' used leaf springs
22:58	asciilifeform	not quite as pleasurable as ibm's buckling springs. but the 'northgate' does have the function keys in their properly ordained position.
22:58	asciilifeform	ibm made a buckling-spring keyboard which also had this, but it suffered from other deformities.
22:58	asciilifeform	see for yourself: http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/Images/1390876.jpg
22:58	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1CAbEHu )
22:58	decimation	asciilifeform: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Northgate_OmniKey_101 this?
22:58	assbot	Northgate OmniKey 101 - Deskthority wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAbH6q )
22:59	gernika	asciilifeform: so is someone who can't get ahold of a microwriter basically just fucked?
22:59	asciilifeform	decimation: no.
22:59	PeterL	no control by 'z'?
22:59	asciilifeform	decimation: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Omnikey102p3248.jpg << that one
22:59	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1CAbRL5 )
23:00	decimation	asciilifeform: yeah I like those extra function keys
23:00	decimation	wait, you don't get 22 function keys?
23:00	asciilifeform	gernika: 'microwriter' is not so great today. no easy means of getting it to throw output to a computer in real time.
23:00	asciilifeform	gernika: there's an rs232 jack but, iirc, it only pisses out a buffered text.
23:00	asciilifeform	gernika: i'll happily part with mine if someone wanted to buy it.
23:01	asciilifeform	PeterL: nah that's fixable
23:01	gernika	asciilifeform: ah I thought you'd figured out how to hook it up to whatever development machine you use
23:01	asciilifeform	PeterL: no 'esc', no status lights, abominable 'plus sign' arrow keys
23:01	asciilifeform	gernika: no, i did not actually use it in anger. for some reason i thought this was clear from the article.
23:02	asciilifeform	gernika: i expressed a wish that i had grown up with it, rather than qwerty keyboards.
23:02	PeterL	I can't quite see, what's in the middle of the arrow keys?
23:02	gernika	asciilifeform: sorry it's been about a month since I read it
23:02	decimation	'zulu' was a great movie though
23:02	asciilifeform	PeterL: key with own code
23:02	asciilifeform	PeterL: that keyboard was intended for 'glass tty' terminals and cannot be used with a modern pc compat. machine without some custom electronics
23:03	asciilifeform	(speaking here of the giant 'model m')
23:03	kakobrekla	that is 'model f'
23:03	asciilifeform	i have one. it is presently gathering dust. no time to do what must be done to it
23:03	decimation	asciilifeform: I think sun made a keyboard with function keys on the left, but no buckling springs
23:03	asciilifeform	neh, model f was the pc xt keyboard iirtc
23:03	asciilifeform	iirc
23:03	asciilifeform	decimation: sun's type 5. shit keys.
23:03	asciilifeform	membrane.
23:04	decimation	http://www.aquaphoenix.com/graphics/SunKeyboardType6/
23:04	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1CAckwD )
23:04	decimation	yeah but the layout was ok
23:04	asciilifeform	!s spreading works
23:04	assbot	15 results for 'spreading works' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spreading+works
23:04	kakobrekla	ah, the layout looks like f then
23:05	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2014#802309
23:05	assbot	Logged on 20-08-2014 06:37:37; asciilifeform: soviet scientist declares, 'we've invented a shit-to-food converter.' 'does it work?' 'sorta. spreading on bread: worlks!!11! eating - not quite yet.'
23:05	decimation	lol I like the .link
23:05	decimation	asciilifeform: maybe they can keep a detached dog's head alive too!!!
23:06	asciilifeform	lol, that sorta worked.
23:07	kakobrekla	speaking of keyboards, if anyone has such, wtb: http://shrani.si/f/1U/zK/vTpHQ6z/4381kb.jpg
23:07	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1CAcNPy )
23:08	asciilifeform	lol!
23:08	asciilifeform	for what was this one? s/360?
23:08	decimation	is that from a pcjr?
23:08	decimation	yeah, too old for pcjr
23:08	kakobrekla	actually http://shrani.si/f/h/6h/2YfYFZ7j/1280px-ibm-3279.jpg
23:08	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1CAcRPe )
23:09	kakobrekla	for the IBM-3279?
23:09	BingoBoingo	!up devthedev
23:10	decimation	ah that's a real 3270 term
23:11	kakobrekla	they do not seem identical but i think they are same, the keyboards
23:11	kakobrekla	same model
23:11	asciilifeform	kakobrekla has this ?
23:11	kakobrekla	kakobrekla wtb this
23:12	kakobrekla	ofc noone sane will part it
23:15	gernika	asciilifeform: I find it interesting that you prefer the buckling springs over something like the Microsoft Natural Keyboard that doesn't require you flex your wrists sideways. That said, using the MS keyboard ultimately has not prevented me from having issues. I must try a springy keyboard.
23:16	decimation	I've used both and I didn't think that the 'natural keyboards' were all that more comfortable
23:17	asciilifeform	aha.
23:17	asciilifeform	i find them a misery.
23:17	asciilifeform	and that's not even considering the castrated space bar (to fit the worthless winblows keys)
23:18	gernika	What aggravates me more and more recently is the claim that mac products are well designed, when in fact they will destroy your hands.
23:19	gernika	both the keyboards and the "magic" trackpad
23:19	decimation	yeah mac keyboard is shit
23:19	asciilifeform	worthy of a 'dollar store' calculator.
23:19	decimation	I find the trackpad annoying too, not sure why people prefer
23:19	PeterL	I'm suprised you don't reprogram the winblows key to be an extra control to give yourself another batch of functions at your fingertips?
23:20	asciilifeform	PeterL: i might do so, if any keyboard having it were worth using in the first place
23:20	asciilifeform	but i have yet to find a keyboard made post-1995 or so that was worth having
23:20	decimation	I use the model-m knockoff for my mac: http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/SpacesaverM
23:20	assbot	Unicomp, Inc.: Spacesaver M / Mac OS X ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAeCfi )
23:21	asciilifeform	decimation: funny that you mention this, a colleague of mine is throwing his out just now.
23:21	decimation	asciilifeform: why?
23:21	asciilifeform	spring - gave out. buzzing repeats.
23:21	asciilifeform	knockoff is a turd.
23:21	decimation	heh. mine has an issue where the function key 'negates' suddenly
23:21	decimation	always-on instead of always-off
23:21	asciilifeform	real 'model m' goes 30+ years without any malfunction of any detectable kind whatsoever.
23:21	decimation	I have to plug/replug usb to 'fix'
23:21	asciilifeform	or any maintenance.
23:22	asciilifeform	usb lol
23:22	asciilifeform	i don't even allow usb keyboards on my personal machines.
23:22	decimation	yeah, whatever chinese intern wrote the keyboard driver firmware was an idiot
23:22	asciilifeform	i meant, in kernel
23:23	kakobrekla	i have a bolt moded (ssk) and non bolt moded board and difference is huge
23:23	decimation	asciilifeform: don't you trust usb security?
23:23	asciilifeform	don't want multi-keyboard support.
23:23	asciilifeform	no good comes of it
23:23	asciilifeform	somebody wake up diametric
23:23	asciilifeform	i recall he bought, not long ago, a 'bolt modded' model m
23:23	gernika	This look about right? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sop/4778203160.html
23:23	assbot	IBM Model M clicky Keyboard, 1993, excellent condition, w/USB adapter ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAfi4e )
23:23	kakobrekla	and it fell apart?
23:24	asciilifeform	not afaik
23:24	asciilifeform	not yet, anyway
23:24	asciilifeform	gernika: that's a standard model m from the photo, yes
23:24	decimation	gernika: the early 90's model m's were made by lexmark, somewhat shoddier
23:27	kakobrekla	if someone wants to drool http://webwit.nl/input/
23:27	assbot	Index of /input ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAfznO )
23:28	mike_c	kakobrekla: you wtb the keyboard or the whole terminal?
23:28	kakobrekla	keyboard
23:29	mike_c	i've got a friend who collects old crap like that, i'll ping him. he might know the right people to ask.
23:29	kakobrekla	cool, doesnt hurt to ask :)

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