Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-10-25 | 2018-10-27 → ↓
00:01 asciilifeform to continue in these lulz : ada std has a 'bounded string' type, that superficially is defined as exactly how i wanted to do 'path' type earlier. but! but! if actually invoked, it -- for no logical reason afaik -- prevents the invoking package from being declared stateless ( i.e. pragma Pure ), and this propagates ad infinitum , to caller.
00:01 asciilifeform so apparently i gotta reimplement bounded strings nao..
~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~
01:28 mircea_popescu just fucking patch the kernel.
01:29 mircea_popescu there's no need to even HAVE this bullshit open() style. fixwidth path and that's it.
~ 20 minutes ~
01:49 mats https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333889
01:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'patch' is not the applicable name for the required ragnarok. whole kernel is like this, 9000 layers deep.
01:51 asciilifeform it's what c-tardation is all about.
~ 57 minutes ~
02:49 mircea_popescu sadly.
~ 1 hours 50 minutes ~
04:39 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866278 -> ~every time I used String for anything more than constant value I regretted it somewhere down the line so I tend to converge on the same idea - it's just broken
04:39 a111 Logged on 2018-10-26 02:26 asciilifeform: i suspect that String Must-Die(tm)
~ 5 hours 29 minutes ~
10:09 asciilifeform diana_coman: i happen to know that i'm not the only one who swore off secondarystack -- the 1990s space probes folx did also. but unsurprisingly they never published anyffing re how they filled the resulting cavity in functionality. ( at least they did not have to deal with linux kernel, afaik, ran on bare iron , so no To_C etc horrors )
10:10 asciilifeform it is even possible that they 'cheated' and passes System.Address's around, reverting to c monkeyism.
10:12 asciilifeform ( for the n00bz/l0g-summarizers, likbez : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835937 )
10:12 a111 Logged on 2018-07-18 14:13 asciilifeform: btw did i ever discuss why i forbid the secondary stack ?
10:16 asciilifeform ( and elsewhere, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764451 )
10:16 a111 Logged on 2018-01-05 01:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the secondary stack thing worx correctly in modern-day gnat. but i banned it. ( because it makes reading disasmed binariolade harder; reasoning about the semantics of the latter -- also harder; and consumes very scarce, on small embedded chips, memory , imho needlessly )
~ 41 minutes ~
10:57 asciilifeform relatedly, i've written a working replacement for Bounded_String .
10:58 asciilifeform ( trivial, but sadly needed. i have nfi why the standard one has the retarded block against pragma Pure )
~ 37 minutes ~
11:35 BingoBoingo Breaking: FBI has arrested their Patsy!
~ 21 minutes ~
11:56 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/10/fbi-brings-in-their-bomb-hoax-patsy-florida-man/ << Qntra - FBI Brings In Their Bomb Hoax Patsy: Florida Man
11:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform cuz why publish anything, right.
12:00 * mircea_popescu has a good mind to edit all these people's graves, "here lies a schmuck, who published rien."
12:00 mod6 *#dFnwQ831i&
12:00 mod6 lol
12:01 mod6 smh
12:01 BingoBoingo And looks like its time for mod6 to change another password
12:01 mod6 aha
12:04 asciilifeform lol
12:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: modern academitard 'publishing' is usually of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1857920 sort
12:07 a111 Logged on 2018-10-04 00:14 asciilifeform: i.e. unreplicable crapola where one'd have to catch the authors and connect'em to 220v to get the orig data, supposing it existed
12:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
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12:09 mircea_popescu mod6 omfg! you need sleep, you!
12:09 asciilifeform ( 'electric' serpent is actually somewhat nontrivial, on acct of the gnarly 'key schedule' algo and the arrayed sboxes )
12:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform fucking morons.
12:09 mircea_popescu yeah.
12:09 asciilifeform not simply morons, mendacious morons
12:09 BingoBoingo Irony: Woman who would clearly recognize as laughable a man's attempts to boast about fapping boast about her own self pleasuring activities https://archive.is/xlEDb
12:09 asciilifeform simple morons would be an improvement.
12:12 asciilifeform i expect academitards-with-seekric-sauce are 98% 'if i published, errybody will know that it never worked', 1% 'if i published, errybody will know that it consists of ripped off old open sores' ( personally met one of these ! ) , and 1% 'it worx and we're gonna patent!111 and getrichquick' , bolix-whisperer style ( i have no direct evidence that these exist, but some indirect clues )
12:13 mircea_popescu obviously dood, the mainstay of adolescentine wank fiction is the shame, the burning, unyielding SHAME of "if dad knew would prolly a) laugh ass off and b) cut pecker off, "useless anyway".
12:14 asciilifeform in this case it's simple madoff fraud, imho, rather than any sort of peculiar freudism. i.e. simple 'we lied for moneys and dun wanna to jail'
12:14 mircea_popescu nah, it's freudism. things as advanced as fraud don't get as fashionable.
12:15 asciilifeform faux-fpga-worx aint exactly the most fashionable scamolas, we're looking at obscure, vs 'sexy', frauds.
12:16 asciilifeform mostly indian/chinese d00dz embedded in usg.academitardia, doin' their india thing.
12:16 mircea_popescu the behaviour is painting-indistinct. "yellow houses aren't the most fashionable". the discussion is house-building, not "yellow house making"
12:16 asciilifeform possibly
12:20 asciilifeform upstack -- ran into stack of these 'papers' when cleaning out crud, from 2yr ago when asciilifeform thought 'could make simple ciphered disk from usb2sd chip <-> ice40 <-> sdcard ' )
12:21 asciilifeform serpent was bottleneck, in that gedankenbox.
12:29 asciilifeform ( why usb2sd chinesium, and not the usual 'usb microcontroller' ? cuz it has the 'mass storage' stack hairball in mask rom, and not reprogrammable... )
12:32 mircea_popescu need tmsros/tmsrfs first, it's evbident by now
12:33 asciilifeform for self-ciphering block disk ? why ?
12:33 asciilifeform it'd do its thing without involving os/fs
12:33 asciilifeform ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865718 summary )
12:33 a111 Logged on 2018-10-24 22:14 asciilifeform: ( for the l0gz : from asciilifeform's pov, 'sane disk crypter' is an item that gets keyed via onboard keyboard jack, e.g. serpents, the attached disk, and unkeyed when powered off or at the closing of a contact attached to $whatever )
12:34 asciilifeform in fact you would specifically not want any aspect of it visible to the pc.
12:34 asciilifeform presents as ordinary disk when connected/keyed.
12:35 asciilifeform ( existing schemes resembling this are retarded primarily because they have luser enter key via pc kbd , and secondarily because they all married to aes )
12:38 mircea_popescu because then we'd have baked sane hardware for it.
12:38 mircea_popescu how to get fg ? get tmsr-rsa
12:39 asciilifeform lol from that pov no point in doing anyffing at all until we bake own ic at will , on atomic battleship..
12:40 asciilifeform imho disk cipherer is an item that could be made, a la FG, without rebuilding all of civilization, and not have to be rebaked later. supposing folx wanted it.
12:40 mircea_popescu hm
12:40 mircea_popescu tell this to me again ?
12:42 asciilifeform you have a box, that presents as e.g. usb drive on 'red' end, and eats a e.g. sd card on 'black' end, with a thing between the two that serpents and unserpents (how to key it, is a separate conversation, but it can be keyed sanely so long as it is done not from pc end )
12:42 asciilifeform this was actually mircea_popescu's idea, originally, it was orig part of the cardano cocktail.
12:43 mircea_popescu yeah.
12:43 asciilifeform there are heathen incarnations but they all suffer from the obvious idjicies afaik.
12:43 mircea_popescu so listen, you actually see no merit in the "4096 byte crypto fpgas" ?
12:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i see plenty of merit in iron bignumtron, sure
12:44 asciilifeform funnily enuff i dun know of a single commercial/heathendom fpga that could house something of this size.
12:44 asciilifeform not even the $1k xilinx'en.
12:44 mircea_popescu no no, not house it in fpga
12:44 mircea_popescu bake our own fpga, with 4096 bit byte sizes
12:44 asciilifeform as in, with 4096b ( really you want double of this, given how modexp works ) arithmetizer block in the fabric ?
12:45 asciilifeform it'd rock
12:45 mircea_popescu so you don't see my point when i say "well... disk and everytihng else line-crypto really needs tmsr-cryptochip first" ?
12:45 asciilifeform ( it is not meaningful to speak of 'bitness' of fpga per se, it's just a bag of blocks, typically 4-6bit LUTs plus some arithmetizers )
12:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: symmetric crypter doesn't win from massive arithmetron tho
12:46 mircea_popescu but then could rsa!
12:46 asciilifeform it wants simply large # of pedestrian nands/switches.
12:46 mircea_popescu whole problem of "nobody serpent" etc goes away
12:46 asciilifeform yer gonna hammer in a 4096 bit key erry time you uncork the thing ?
12:46 asciilifeform by hand ?
12:46 mircea_popescu if you don't like that, get an antifuse rom chip for it.
12:47 asciilifeform you want the key to vanish in <1ms when you hit the red button tho
12:47 mircea_popescu so keep it on a flash card etc.
12:47 mircea_popescu these are not by any means same calibre problems
12:48 mircea_popescu i am experimenting with serpent, and yes it's borne of that ancient discussion of ours, but i'm nowhere near-ready to bake it into "this is tmsr secure disk"
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12:48 asciilifeform then it aint a fully volatile ciphertron tho. good % of the appeal, from my pov, was that it loses key if unplugged, and has no squirrelholes to somehow inadvertently retain key bits when off.
12:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i suspect that there will not be a 'civilized' symmetric cipher, i.e. item with less voodoo flavour to it than 'serpent'
12:48 asciilifeform it is a kind of 'escherian', as mircea_popescu likes to describe, object.
12:49 mircea_popescu i agree with that, but im not sure symmetric cipher hdd wins that much.
12:49 mircea_popescu i mean, sure, it's something.
12:49 mircea_popescu now, maybe after eulora's run for a half decade, and there's ACTUAL ~publshed~ research by ACTUAL humans re its strength, THEN i can revisit this discussion from a different hand
12:50 asciilifeform it wins, theoretically, machine that can be locked/transported .
12:50 mircea_popescu but as it stands, seems sending people to bring me a serpent hdd is not unlike sending people to bring be titted boars. why, can't use women ?
12:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nobody's even yet invented an approach to investigating strength of symmetrics. (only weakness)
12:50 asciilifeform (and i strongly suspect that nobody will)
12:50 mircea_popescu that's what i mean, "a picture of its possible strength emerges from ample discussion of its possible weaknesses"
12:51 asciilifeform but it doesn't. recall the orig symmetric thread.
12:51 asciilifeform we have no concept of 'strength' that shannon didn't have in '47.
12:51 asciilifeform ( and his verdict was 'only about otp can talk about strength, errything else provably contains bits of key in ciphertext' )
12:52 mircea_popescu i want serpent to take me out to dinner first! what!
12:52 asciilifeform lol
12:52 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu's pov was 'symmetric iron disk is worse than nuffin cuz symmetric ciphers are hokum' -- i'll buy
12:53 asciilifeform problem is that we're already using'em
12:53 mircea_popescu not worse than nothing, no.
12:53 asciilifeform ( an iron rsatron would remove some of the need for fast / low-mem ciphration, but imho not all )
12:53 mircea_popescu if you're hungry, happy meal not worse than nothing (marginally), but you stiull won't get it.
12:54 asciilifeform i was thinking moar along the lines of 'pistol that fires erry other round backwards is worse than a good knife'
12:55 mircea_popescu i don't expect it'd be a bad thing to have. it's certainly way the fuck more than the whole "market" of the whole "security industry" slash barn.
12:56 mircea_popescu but it seems, at least to my dumb eye of today, kinda going the wrong way.
12:56 asciilifeform also worth noting that it's an item heathens might actually buy.
12:56 mircea_popescu if experience is any guide, heathens do not buy by rational criteria.
12:56 asciilifeform so from propaganda/empire-building pov, could be +ev
12:56 mircea_popescu ie, they'll buy your used underwear to wear on head just as well.
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12:57 asciilifeform they didn't line up to buy FG.. ( it dun scratch any heathen itches ) whereas this item potentially does scratch, as i understand
12:58 asciilifeform ( dun mean they'll buy, could easily be engulfed by pantsuit lymphocytes and remain 'unhappened' , sure )
12:58 mircea_popescu so yes, i fully expect they'll buy, and then admire the hole we've dug ourselves in : five years down the road, say, as a mental experiment, we've sold 100k of these units, they're 90% of all we've sold, and well... they're still blockshiters. and what's next ? say i utter a fatah against block "ciphering", for good technical reasons or just because i'm insane -- IT DOESNT MATTER, and lo there'll be a lordship schism because
12:58 mircea_popescu the poor people touching that shit (ie, that make it, or sell it, or w/e) are suddenly stuck bearing more weight than their rated limits.
12:59 mircea_popescu say inca utters fatwah against block chiphers (ALSO DOESNT MATTER), now we'll go to war for the holy cause of niggers^H^Hblockchiphers ?
12:59 asciilifeform it aint end of the world if we bake sumthing and then retire it in favour of moar-correct replacement ( a la orig v )
12:59 mircea_popescu except, of course, if the underwear-on-head&over-pants crowd buys it.
13:00 mircea_popescu recall how satoshi's prototype ended up shitbitcoin ?
13:00 mircea_popescu IT WAS A PROTOTYPE
13:00 asciilifeform bitcoin p2p net is moar of a living organism , it is not really upgradeable
13:00 asciilifeform whereas it is not difficult to copy a block disk to a new one and burn the old
13:01 mircea_popescu it seriously never fucking was meant to be gone over with a microscope, "oh satoshi how could you". fuck you i should wear a caliper attached to my pants in case i doodle in the restaurant also ?
13:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the problem with computers is that they all tend to be living organisms.
13:01 mircea_popescu if they ever live, they live.
13:01 asciilifeform dunno, i threw out my serial mouse, and didn't have to rewire entire house on acct of having discarded it
13:02 asciilifeform simple peripherals are a thing
13:02 mircea_popescu this is also true.
13:02 asciilifeform $gedankenitem is just that, a 'dumb' peripheral
13:02 mircea_popescu (you did end up with a rewired computer on acct of throwing out that mouse, and you bemoan it daily, but soit.)
13:03 * asciilifeform as errybody knows, never actually throws out iron!111 so haha!, still has mouse! was rhetorical device
13:04 mircea_popescu in short, because this winding discussion risks overwhelming buffers, the salient points are a) that i'm not ready to go to war over serpent, it's a meh-maybe item ; b) that building our spearheads around items we're not willing to die for may be how the converse of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitcoin+corrupts altogether.
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13:04 mircea_popescu works altogether*
13:04 asciilifeform incidentally , baking such box doesn't marry to serpent, can replace the ice40's feed rom whenever, with whatever one likes
13:05 asciilifeform so long as it sits down in 8k gates
13:05 asciilifeform ice40 eats config from a 8-legged spi rom thing, can socket it.
13:05 mircea_popescu yeah but suppose some bright kid walks into here one day with that item we all suspect is under a rock somewhere
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13:05 mircea_popescu "hey guise ? i have a mathematical definition of blockchipher, and guess what comes for free with it."
13:05 asciilifeform (unlike the xl9572 , incidentally, which has baked-in eeprom )
13:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: then errybody who likes it, pulls their roms and writes in ~that~ , neh.
13:06 mircea_popescu nono.
13:06 asciilifeform and nao you have bright-kid-cipher instead of serpent, same iron
13:06 mircea_popescu it comes for free with "here's generic method to attack all of them"
13:06 asciilifeform by same lights bright-kid can walk in with pill for rsa. then wat.
13:06 mircea_popescu absolutely not.
13:07 asciilifeform by what oracle not ?
13:07 mircea_popescu nobody's walking anywhere with any rsa pills. now that i'm willing to die with.
13:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i looked at the both of them things, what can i tell you.
13:07 asciilifeform errybody gotta take bets, sure. but must point out that there is no stiffness proof for rsa any moar than for voodoo-symmetrics.
13:08 asciilifeform and yes i am moar willing to bet on rsa.
13:08 mircea_popescu this is true.
13:08 mircea_popescu but the other point is, yes, "erryone gotta bet". but also, "erryone has finite chips to bet with".
13:08 asciilifeform and will point out, errybody who transmitted rsa-over-serpent in the 20yrs prior to $breakthrough is just as hosed as the folx who were using pocket iron serpentrons
13:09 mircea_popescu there is that.
13:09 asciilifeform ( if anyffing, moar -- iron sepentron is only 'broken' if it actually is captured by enemy prior to serpent-pops )
13:10 mircea_popescu aaaanyways, this out of the way : do you actually have all the parts for this serpentdisk ?
13:10 asciilifeform theoretically in fact yes -- right here in the torture room
13:10 mircea_popescu built one yet ?
13:10 asciilifeform supposing we wanted one
13:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope, as in fact noted in the head of thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866343
13:10 a111 Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
13:10 asciilifeform it needs that 1 magick trick.
13:11 mircea_popescu speaking of which -- an ada-to-verilog item would prolly be very fucking useful
13:11 mircea_popescu looks to me like about half of what we write, we'll end up baking eventually.
13:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they're sorta fundamentally immiscible, verilog is not a procedural/algorithmic lang
13:11 asciilifeform it's a wiring diagrammator, if you like.
13:11 mircea_popescu yes but how strong is that sorta ?
13:11 asciilifeform all the lines 'execute at once'
13:12 mircea_popescu recursive and functional also "sorta inmiscible", at least until bright kid
13:12 asciilifeform it compiles into a gate netlist, rather than sequence of instructions for vonneumann cpu.
13:12 mircea_popescu no dood i understand the differences.
13:13 asciilifeform there actually exists an ada-flavoured variant, 'vdhl', but i never saw any win from it, loox rather like simply a moar verbose verilog. but! to be fair, that was 10y ago when i last dug, it was prior to asciilifeform's getting into adaism.
13:13 asciilifeform err, vhdl
13:13 asciilifeform most gate compilers support both.
13:13 BingoBoingo In other propaganda: https://archive.is/P7sge What kind of ethnic background does the apellido "Sayoc" suggest?
13:14 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: nepal??
13:14 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: "White" dude
13:14 asciilifeform lol!
13:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "what sort of speed hit" is also a topic.
13:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in re the disk thing ? depends entirely on the serpentron. so open q.
13:15 asciilifeform and yes a ciphrator that gives you a disk that runs at speed of msdos 5inch floppy, aint very sexy.
13:16 mircea_popescu myeah.
13:16 mircea_popescu of course once baked could also be put in ~everything else. including say phones or w/e.
13:16 asciilifeform theoretically anyffing that eats normal block devices nao, yes
13:17 asciilifeform the remaining open q re iron is 'how to throw in key', is separate q
13:17 mircea_popescu note that eg the eulora spec (low value item anyway) has MANY keys.
13:17 asciilifeform could simply make it a serial input, and let user decide what he likes, e.g. he has a vt100 he can plug in, or tape reader, or which.
13:18 asciilifeform one potentially interesting variation on the theme is if a key block contained an offset-length into the drive. so pluggin in diff keys could give you diff 'disks', which are normally indistinguishable from noise.
13:19 mircea_popescu meh. sd small enough as it is.
13:19 asciilifeform sd can be had in half TB and moar
13:19 asciilifeform i even have some here.
13:20 mircea_popescu what did you pay for one ?
13:20 asciilifeform approx same 'by byte' as ordinary 2.5" samsungs
13:20 asciilifeform it dun win any speed races, of course. but is available.
13:20 mircea_popescu hm
13:21 asciilifeform e.g. 200GB samsung sd is ~fiddybux
13:21 mircea_popescu aha
13:22 asciilifeform they're still going down in cost, also.
13:24 mircea_popescu well, so in actionables : probably dusting off vdhl worth your time, see how it feels. possibly baking serpentdisk worth your time, tho at this point seems kinda soso.
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13:24 asciilifeform ( i was initially testing rk pilot plant to run off sd, discarded on acct of meh speed vs usb3 )
13:25 asciilifeform vhdl is prolly worth a 2nd look, tho i currently suspect that it vs verilog aint a 'ada vs c' win, simply longer text that does same thing ( the only unit of data in fpgaism is really the bit, so 'types' dun exist )
13:26 asciilifeform and the q of 'would serpent fit in ice40' is imho also worth answering. i'ma put it in the pipe.
13:28 mircea_popescu the one thing i really don't like is that wtf block devices of two block sizes.
13:28 asciilifeform if, incidentally, somebody runs across the quasi-mythical src of the old attempts, potentially could decruft/fit-in-head . so plox to write in if find.
13:28 mircea_popescu IF i had a workable understanding of block ciphers, we could bake a device-block-tailored cipher and at least have that to show god.
13:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: two block sizes ?
13:28 mircea_popescu well one for the cipher the other for the disk
13:29 asciilifeform theoretically usb storage allows arbitrary block size .
13:29 asciilifeform ( in practice never tried anyffing but 512 , so whoknows )
13:29 mircea_popescu i thought sds came into native blocksizes and yeah sure the driver atop will let you believe w/e.
13:30 asciilifeform the native one the korean nands give you is usually 4096 as it is
13:30 asciilifeform linux goes along pretending that it's 512 for 'legacyism' , from userland pov
13:30 asciilifeform but if you actually touch the disk, it erases a 4096byte chunk
13:32 asciilifeform the 1 other tricky detail is that you gotta include block ~number~ ( or hash thereof, or some variant ) ~inside~ the plaintext for each block, or you get the penguin
13:33 asciilifeform ( the https://blog.filippo.io/content/images/2015/11/Tux_ecb.jpg one )
13:34 asciilifeform along with , ideally, some rng crud
13:34 asciilifeform ( pill against 'known plaintext'ism )
13:35 mircea_popescu but wasnt serpent size 256byte ?
13:40 hanbot in other still-using-google fun, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 << news search for bitcoin nominally yields 103M results, of which shitoogle will actually produce 290, which in turn yields ~30 non-duplicates. delayed another week i expect for spelunking.
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13:40 a111 Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
13:40 mircea_popescu hanbot spelunking like how ?
13:40 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/10/fbi-patsy-identified-56-year-old-filipino-american-cesar-altieri-sayoc/ << Qntra - FBI Patsy Identified: 56 Year Old Filipino American Cesar Altieri Sayoc
13:41 hanbot something like incrementally sticking date bands into the query and moving ever backward
13:41 mircea_popescu eh, delaying terrible strategy. it's how tbf managed its splendid record to date
13:41 mircea_popescu how about do what you have do more if find more later.
13:41 mircea_popescu nobody yet managed to fill belly on delayed soup.
13:42 hanbot alright, i'll have nicoleci send off the first batch asap.
13:42 mircea_popescu if she can find them.
13:42 hanbot if she can find what? she's got what to send and where to send it, 30x.
13:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: classical serpent eats 256bit key. but ( as illustrated in http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/ ) eats/shits 16 byte payload blox as it goes; a 4096 byte flash sector would need 8 of these, plus i suspect a 9th for the block # ( see earlier re 'known plaintext'ism etc )
13:57 mircea_popescu myeah. now, if i could have a cipher that has 512 byte payload, the above "single block" thing'd be satisfied. see ?
13:57 mircea_popescu as it is, two block sizes like morons.
13:57 mircea_popescu various other such moronicities scattered about.
13:59 * asciilifeform not a great luvvver of symmetricipherism in general, as amply illustrated in the l0gz, for this and other reasons -- there is no known approach to bake symmetricism from any sort of rational angle
14:01 mircea_popescu right.
14:01 mircea_popescu but the great gain of this morning is that at least all of this now -- on very readable record.
14:02 mircea_popescu with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done.
14:02 mircea_popescu safe enough bet, seeing how it's 99% same as writing code, and they can't do that to save their lives either.
14:06 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done. << Just gotta make the definition of "white men" more inclusive like the FBI is doing
14:07 mircea_popescu yeah, totally, "inclusive" delivered such great benefits, only more of it could possibly save us.
14:08 mircea_popescu it's lulzy, btw, in all times of plague there emerges this obscure cult of "plague is good for you, get moar rats in your bed" etc.
14:08 mircea_popescu !#s poz my neg hole
14:08 a111 4 results for "poz my neg hole", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=poz%20my%20neg%20hole
14:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: even the fundamental shit-into-toilet-not-pants of 'run gedankenexperiment before actually building' seems to be going away in heathendom
14:08 asciilifeform folx just pick up an' build , build pyramid
14:08 mircea_popescu all things equally etc, rite.
14:08 mircea_popescu why discriminate.
14:08 asciilifeform then, 'surprise', falls into pieces, crushes
14:09 mircea_popescu no, all the better. leaves space for more building.
14:10 mircea_popescu wasps only build soundly because genetics ; individually they'd much prefer to build shoddily -- moar building to do!
14:10 BingoBoingo And the rubble makes for convenient aggregate in the next cement mixing
14:10 mircea_popescu they who build out of compulsion kinda end up like this. no ocd washer ever suffered from "this is clean"
14:10 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ikr!
14:12 BingoBoingo It's the "lego" disease. Train kids to build shoddily and keep reusing the parts in a cycle of shanty town
14:12 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: keep in mind that the lego you had as a boy, hasn't existed in decade+ , afaik, per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710146
14:12 a111 Logged on 2017-09-02 20:04 phf: i'd say it's more like 80s lego and modern lego (if you haven't seen, now it's all >50% custom per-toy parts, that can be snapped to a traditional lego coupling, but otherwise non-universal)
14:13 asciilifeform ( if not 20y )
14:13 asciilifeform the current-day variant of the toy is exactly 'ruby on rails'-style abortion
14:14 mircea_popescu o wow, they defeated the whole fucking purpose ?
14:14 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Even back then there were ~5% to 10% non standard parts meaning if one when missing doomed to shanty town construction.
14:14 mircea_popescu such progress!
14:14 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: fwiw the sov clone i had , had 100% interchangeable bricks.
14:14 mircea_popescu cuz "why should kids build toys they didn't pay for" amirite ? apple ftw ?
14:15 asciilifeform ( in variant colours, but otherwise identical to the limits of naked eye comparison )
14:15 mircea_popescu same here.
14:15 asciilifeform in retrospect i'm actually a bit surprised that they pulled off the fine molding
14:15 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: The clone over here were better as well, completely interchangeable, except... They didn't click together as well.
14:15 mircea_popescu i had two trucks which together built a nice house.
14:16 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the cloned brix were amazing, survived all kindsa mechanical abuse without so much as a scratch, much less brea
14:16 asciilifeform k
14:16 mircea_popescu in memory of this, ima go eat pineapple while watching dollies wash car.
14:16 asciilifeform btw re lego, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=16 << 2008
14:16 BingoBoingo Youngest brother got a set with a "Mountain" made of two molded half pieces with standard lego dots as the centerpiece.
14:17 asciilifeform in 2008 already was ~extinct.
14:19 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, when i moved to usa, i briefly got hold of the 'genuine' lego, and was somewhat disappoint
14:19 asciilifeform brittle stuff, and after coupla 100 'clicks', turns 'unclickable'
14:19 BingoBoingo Here in Uruguay lego (genuine or imitation) is a very recent arrival.
14:19 BingoBoingo ~3 years or so.
14:20 asciilifeform was a sort of 'first swallow of spring' re asciilifeform's third eye opening .
14:21 asciilifeform when sov engineers knew how to make a konsoomer item 'eternal' -- they did. ( e.g. famous 'buran' vacuum cleaner, still shows up now and again on lulzbay, when i finally move my arse to 220v country, i'ma buy it ) . when they didn't know, they made eternally maintainable .
14:22 asciilifeform picture, ~60 y.o. vaccuum cleaners that still work, just like when new, and where filter washable and ~indestructible.
14:23 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-13#1099550 << see also.
14:23 a111 Logged on 2015-04-13 14:59 mircea_popescu: nubbins` for the record, traditional (european) cooking happened around this large flat table of very thick oak
14:23 asciilifeform ( iirc there was an extended mircea_popescu piece re subj, but i cannot nao recall which )
14:24 asciilifeform re those oaken tables, good as new 200+ yrs into their duty cycle.
14:25 BingoBoingo I am going to ponder this while I run some errands, inevitably seeing at least two air cooled volkswagens buffered by a vast gulf of nothing seperating them from the late model Chinese plasticars
14:25 asciilifeform lol havefun
14:26 BingoBoingo Will do.
~ 20 minutes ~
14:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866516 << this quickly led to dead end, incidentally -- the ice40 'icestorm' proggy dun seem to eat vhdl...
14:47 a111 Logged on 2018-10-26 17:24 mircea_popescu: well, so in actionables : probably dusting off vdhl worth your time, see how it feels. possibly baking serpentdisk worth your time, tho at this point seems kinda soso.
14:48 asciilifeform ( suxx when there is only 1 working example of a thing... )
14:48 asciilifeform there's a converter, but it smacks of ye olde c2fortran
14:57 mircea_popescu my ~grandparents~ had a buran. though perhaps i said this
14:57 asciilifeform oh ha yea i recall old thrd nao.
14:57 mircea_popescu i was fucking scared of that thing, as a 5yo
14:57 asciilifeform it had a mighty roar.
14:58 mircea_popescu ikr!
15:00 asciilifeform appropriately named, even! 'sandstorm'
15:00 asciilifeform there was also a 'typhoon' and various others, all on roughly same scheme.
15:00 asciilifeform had, conveniently, 2 holes, suck hole and blow hole. dunno why this aint standard today.
15:03 mircea_popescu how isn;'t it ?!
15:04 asciilifeform standard ameri-konsoomer vac has 1 hose hole, suck-only.
15:04 mircea_popescu so where does the air go lmao
15:04 mircea_popescu flakes out condensate ? degenerate matter ?
15:04 asciilifeform it goes out of a grate, no hose hole
15:05 mircea_popescu heh
15:06 asciilifeform i have a vaguely buran-like chinese thing, with 2 holes, but it eats paper filters, typical modern sad
15:06 mircea_popescu yeah, same thing i got downstairs for car detialing.
15:06 mircea_popescu tube section with a lid
15:06 mircea_popescu the buran had this wunderbar chiseled dome.
15:07 asciilifeform it did! with the brushed coating. there was a whole story re the d00d who came up with that, but i've sadly misplaced.
15:08 asciilifeform came in gold- and silvery- tint. ( who said sov konsoomer sector knew no decoration!11 )
15:09 asciilifeform in later years asciilifeform's folx got a 'rocket' , long streamlined sucker that looked kinda like naval torpedo. after 5yo asciilifeform visited naval museum, then eyed thing with suspicion..
15:15 mircea_popescu i dunno, mine had this green enamel outside
15:15 mircea_popescu i wish i knew how they did that, incidentally. undentable fucking enamel.
15:15 asciilifeform possibly moar variants than i ever saw, who even knows how many
15:15 asciilifeform 'rocket' had that enamel.
15:15 asciilifeform i suspect , was same enamel as on actual rockets..
15:16 mircea_popescu kinda half-considering starting jewelry workshop for slave labour... that'd be so great.
15:16 asciilifeform what wouldja have'em make ?
15:16 mircea_popescu i dunno, cunt jewelry.
15:16 mircea_popescu girls that are naked indoors prime jewelry target.
15:17 * mircea_popescu slowly rediscovering ottoman 15th century techs here ;/
15:23 mircea_popescu ehehe " but really, why sweep the pink flamingos under the rug". spyked's like all smooth an' shit.
15:34 mircea_popescu diana_coman http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/25/smg-comms-chapter-4-c-wrappers-for-rsa-and-mpi/#selection-45.2-45.209 << couldn't just test top bit ?
~ 1 hours 23 minutes ~
16:57 diana_coman mircea_popescu, uhm...no/
↖
16:58 diana_coman sure, one can implement the comparison in Ada
16:58 diana_coman but going that route ...can implement the mpi arithmetic too, right?
17:00 asciilifeform diana_coman: out of curiosity -- given what mircea_popescu said the other day re necessary speed of rsa ops, could potentially use the current (11) ffa ?
17:01 asciilifeform the front end aint gonna change, so potentially could, as i understand
17:01 diana_coman asciilifeform, potentially yes
17:01 asciilifeform key gen would be a bitch tho
17:02 diana_coman asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
↖
17:02 asciilifeform diana_coman: until you wrote the recent piece, i actually forgot that mpi ~didnt~ shit out ordinary octet arrays as-supplied
17:03 diana_coman asciilifeform, it shits a shit: there is get_mpi_buffer and set_mpi_buffer that theoretically do that
17:03 asciilifeform recently was going over ancient notes from my torture room, and it was actually on my to-do, right before i shelved the thing
17:03 diana_coman BUT: for one thing as previously noticed + tested they trim leading 0 so if you feed it an array with 0 you will NOT get it back the same
17:03 asciilifeform yea kochian 'normalization' (variable-width representation of bignums) does that.
17:04 diana_coman and for the other it's the C style thing where it allocates memory the way it sees fit and the caller is supposed afterwards to clean up the mess when it likes
17:04 asciilifeform ugh
17:04 diana_coman precisely why I preferred to make a wrapper for it so I don't import the whole stinking pile further up
17:04 asciilifeform it's how i wrap c-isms, also, yea
17:05 asciilifeform ( e.g. in the udp thing )
17:06 diana_coman but it's true that doing the whole conversion to c and conversion back *just for the sake of an MPI comparison* might be uglier than just walking the arrays and seeing which one has a bit set first
17:06 asciilifeform yea but you wouldn't want the idjicy to leak upstream ( per e.g. last night's 'spackling' thread )
17:06 asciilifeform idea being, c-isms stop at the spackling layer and propagate no further
17:08 diana_coman yes, this is for the OAEP part - current algo repeats the oaep padding until the result is < modulus of given key (since otherwise it can't rsa afterwards)
17:08 diana_coman the oaep padding is in ada
17:08 asciilifeform relatedly, asciilifeform is writing a sane paths-handling lib, and it's an uphill climb, tricky to get to/from c representations without pointerism
17:09 diana_coman but the comparison is iffy since either a. call c-wrapper and so do conversion from ada's oaep array of octets to C's MPI shit
17:09 diana_coman or b. make an Ada comparison of 2 arrays of octets
17:09 diana_coman basically "which one has a higher octet first if I walk them from left to right?"
↖
17:10 asciilifeform mpi has a signed subtract, iirc
17:10 asciilifeform can use that
17:10 diana_coman asciilifeform, I gave up on using gnat's ; mainly because at previous experience things went weird quite quickly
17:10 diana_coman asciilifeform, it even has mpi_compare
17:10 diana_coman but...it wants MPI!
17:10 diana_coman hence: convert
17:10 asciilifeform aaaa
17:10 asciilifeform ok makes sense
17:10 diana_coman yes, c_wrappers that I wrote have a wrapper for precisely that mpi_compare thing among other stuff
17:11 asciilifeform but yes, i forgot that the comparison happens after oaep
17:11 diana_coman that's the headache: oaep in ada, comparison in C, if not right, oaep in ada again, if right then rsa in C
17:13 diana_coman and yes, the mpi-variable-buffer-returned gives me some headaches
17:13 * diana_coman is still pondering the best way to treat that so it doesn't make a mess
17:15 asciilifeform the conversions are O(bitness) tho, i dun expect they will be major dent in performance. simply ugly aesthetically.
17:16 diana_coman asciilifeform, theoretically yes; practically since one calls stuff from mpi lib to create the MPIs, there are all sorts of things going on in there
17:20 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866643 - to detail this: technically speaking one CAN test top bit until it's 0 for the oaep block (hence for *sure* < modulus) but I don't think it's great mainly because: 1. this fixes one more bit 2. it's really a way bigger hammer than needed - it can start with 1 and be smaller than modulus so potentially increases the number of repeat-oaep without any good reason 3. it's not even particularly clean,
17:20 a111 Logged on 2018-10-26 20:57 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, uhm...no/
17:20 diana_coman more of a hack to accommodate the stink of MPI - not sure it's something we want in there; if anything, I guess I can see more the point to just walking the octets in the array and basically doing the comparison in Ada
17:22 diana_coman asciilifeform, in some sense MPI lib is a very good illustration for all sorts of things - "make a call and be surprised" sort of things, especially re memory allocation
17:23 asciilifeform it was a terrifing thing, i ran away from it. and buggy, also, per diana_coman's dig, and i'm not even convinced that we know the full extent of the buggism.
17:24 asciilifeform esp. in re routines not used in ye olde gpg, or used with various constraints
17:25 diana_coman asciilifeform, myeah, I don't claim I fully know everything that goes on in there and I quite doubt anybody does; and ftr yes, I'm not at all comfortable with the fact that I had to and have to sign it but... I have to, pretty much
17:25 asciilifeform the very notion of heapism in a crypto lib, gives me hives
17:29 * asciilifeform brb,meat
~ 2 hours 35 minutes ~
20:05 BingoBoingo !!v EFD4B069AB0E3AF5638641F4F299DC98E97B36FA78F98570EBCFE04CE7B575EC
20:05 deedbot BingoBoingo paid trinque invoice 3
20:19 trinque cheers BingoBoingo
~ 17 minutes ~
20:36 BingoBoingo Cheers
~ 49 minutes ~
21:26 mod6 thanks trinque
~ 16 minutes ~
21:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866650 << normally not an issue worth thinking about ; but if it coems with saving a lot of gnarly back and forth,,,
21:42 a111 Logged on 2018-10-26 21:02 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
21:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it.
↖
21:49 a111 Logged on 2018-10-26 21:09 diana_coman: basically "which one has a higher octet first if I walk them from left to right?"
21:51 mircea_popescu i wont cry if every once in 256 cases you do an extra oaep that 50-50 might've not been needed.
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~
23:01 mircea_popescu hey BingoBoingo
23:01 mircea_popescu didja hear the fatican elected a new fope ?
~ 50 minutes ~
23:51 BingoBoingo Oh?
23:51 BingoBoingo Who's the hammiest of the hams now?
23:59 BingoBoingo And Commentz http://qntra.net/2018/10/fbi-patsy-identified-56-year-old-filipino-american-cesar-altieri-sayoc/#comments
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